True Resurrection Nerf is poor form...

[Zacarius-of-Lhazaar]

quoted directly from release notes:

"The plane of irian is waning! All permanent magic items that produce a "Resurrection" or
"True Resurrection" effect now produce a "Raise Dead" effect. This includes items with the
"Aspect of Positive Energy" effect from the Shroud."

I would have NEVER used my ingredients for a raise dead effect. I do not have a problem with anything else you all have changed to preserve the overall balance of the game, but the above change is a waste of mine and other players valuable ingredients.

Suggestion... please consider making the effect on triple Positive shroud item a "Resurrection" instead of droping the effect all the way down to a "Raise Dead." If i wanted a "Raise Dead' clickie, I would farm for the Ring.

Players, please voice your opinion about this change... it's your ingredients as well.

[moorewr]

Please, o devs, implement GS deconstruction...

[Cinwulf]

I sympathize with ya, but I think it's a waste of time unfortunately.

[branmakmuffin]

Players, please voice your opinion able this change... it's your wasted ingredients as well.
No it's not, therefore ...

... not signed^10

[skaltervox12]

A lot of my ingredients, time, effort, money and patience has been wasted on mod 9 by all their poor planning in the last mods.

I wish WoW didn't suck so bad.

[sephiroth1084]

I was actually just planning on making 2 True Rez clickies, one for each of my tank and caster. Now I've got to stop and reconsider whether this is a good idea. Probably going to attempt to farm for the ring some more (really low drop rate), though for non-good characters, the Shroud clicky is still better than the ring. And, by the time one would be making on these, one would probably have many spare small and medium ingredients anyway.

I don't like the change, but I can understand the why of it.

[RavenBrother]

I think its bad. Hey My non UMD and Caster types use these to save the party....it is usually a situation that if they don't have many hitpoints when they rez they are just gonna die again. Maybe they should have made this a tier III affect but don't nerf it.

[Fennario]

You know I have a few of these shroud cliclies too. Meh, it sucks but I'm not all that hurt over it. They'll still bring 'em back to life. People are just gonna have to play old school and take the rez more carefully.

I was in a group last night and one guy was carrying on like a 4 year old about this change. Seriously, he wouldn't shut up.

"I spent so many ingredients making 6 or 7 of these things for each of my toons. wah wah wah."

Another guy chimed in,

"Well maybe if people like you didn't go crazy and take advantage of things like this, and make 150 of the **** things, then maybe they wouldn't have to nerf it."

He may or may not be right, but it made me laugh... gotta love those nerd fights.

[Magada]

Makes the ring from slavers more valuable again but, what about the people who have already crafted these items for a clikie they are no longer going to get? I really cant beleave they would change something that people have spent hours and hours to craft. Poor plan if u ask me. Anyone who doesnt have one of these made already doesnt give 2 sheets. The people who have already spent their ings on the items they told us would give a certain effect have a valid reason to be ****in in your cheerios sir.

[Gratch]

Do we have any permenant magic items besides the Shroud clicky that give a greater then raise dead effect?

Ring of the Ancestors: 1x raise dead
2x positive energy shroud item: true resurrection

Along with a few consumed items:
Irian cake: resurrection
Onyx Clicky: raise dead

So this nerf despite all it's "flavor words" is just a direct nerf on the shroud true rez clicky. Any chance they can compromise and just make shroud double positive produce "resurrection" if "true resurrection" is too powerful?

[muncholuncho]

/signed I concur spent too much time collect to make 3 x pos item

[ArealLeroy]

This sucks. I only have 2 shroud ready toons. And i dont play all the time, and the only sjroud gs item i have is this so it will take me another 3 months to make another item from the shroud. This new mod is making a lot of angry ppl

[Ciphertazi]

seems a bit harsh ya, and now that we will actually get the spell and/or scrolls it seems pointless... Nerf a clicky - make it readily available by clerics/UMD's

0.o *boggle*

[GoldyGopher]

While I think changing from "True Resurrection" to "Raise Dead" was a step to far with the advent of the Cleric Spell what would be the point of a cleric taking the spell if everyone had a clickie.

In my opinion I would have changed from "True Resurrection" to plain old "Resurrection", make the GS item more valuable than the ring and accomplishes many of the same objectives.

[Impaqt]

Funny thing is, if people made their "Res Clickys" Blunt, they would have Awesome Sorjek beaters to replace their "Nerfed" Mineral II's

[moorewr]

Well, we just found how they're going to ram Cheat Death down our throats.. unless that's just raise dead too...

(I have to say that I thought adding so many rez clickies was a mistake when they came in the game. But what crying need can you see for changing them other than to try and make the Cleric and Rogue capstones more appealing?)

[Pyromaniac]

Agree with the OP, guess they decided if you're going to nerf the majority of the player base, might as well go full force with the nerfs all at once.

[redoubt]

Agreed. This is not cool. Don't change the GS res items.

[Lifespawn]

full res was nice and yes it sux that they changed it but it's not going to kill any builds that made them for a res it's just small and med ing.

[VirieSquichie]

As someone who refused to be suckered into the near-endless grind of Shroud crafting (I have a life...ain't much to look at, but it's mine...and I would rather play a game than work it...I have a job also!) I feel compelled to laugh quietly.

Not AT you, mind. I feel sorry for all that wasted effort you put in. But at the grind mentality in general...who seriously thinks that all those high-powered effects are going to remain static? That they won't be tuned (read: nerfed) more toward a reasonable range of effects?

You're lucky the greensteel didn't get a complete overhaul, dropping the quality of many of the effects down a notch so they didn't completely outshine and overbalance anything else the loot tables up there should be producing? I know some of those greensteel recipies are really better than what 20th level named loot should be, and yet there are 16th level characters running around with multiple of them as we speak. Perhaps, rather than bemoaning a slight change to one effect, you should be thanking your lucky stars the majority of the effects didn't get swung at by the bat at the same time.

P.S., I do think you should be able to do at least a partial deconstruct on the greensteel when they change the effects...at least deconstruct the last tier's changes, or a tier at a time, or something... I don't think the res-to-raise change is THAT big a deal but as a general principle when they change something that took that much effort they really should have a way to recover some of the work if the players feel they wasted that much effort on it.

[Mhykke]

it's just small and med ing.

and a greensteel blank, a signet stone, greensteel bank ingredients, small shard, and medium shard......

[Toastedchal]

I agree with some of the sentiments, a deconstruct of some kind, to at least recover the greesteel item, would be nice, and to reduce it back to resurrection instead of raise dead, is also a good idea, maybe there is a compromise to be had.

[geoffhanna]

I understand why they need to do it.

But I sure wish they'd implement greensteel deconstruction along with this change (and the transmuter change).

The way it is now seems unnecessarily damaging to people who invested larges in items that are no longer as useful. And yes, I am one of those people :)

[branmakmuffin]

Irony on steroids (from the Compendium Lamannia discussion page (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Talk:Release_Notes_Lamannia_Update_9.0_Official)):


I agree. How on earth is this ok? I have 5 of these weapons and I spent a lot trudging through the Shroud to get them. At least you would have to make it not retroactive for those of us that have them already. This is not fair nor is it appropriate. Raise dead? You have seriously got to be kidding me. Let me guess, someone whined about it and now your going to nerf it because, "I don't have one and it's not fair. :cry : cry:" boo hoo you big baby. Go play something else then.

[moops]

I find it funny that there are the same 15- 20 Turbine cheerleaders hitting all these threads to drown out those who are unhappy with any aspect of the Mod 9 Changes.

I agree, this nerf was pretty dumb--think of all the LVL 9 items that we still use at Lvl 16. . .These are clearly too powerful for Lvl 9 Players, and lvl 9 players who just started playing the game won't really have a chance to get these, so they should raise the lvl on these items or nerf them if Trubine is going to stay true ot the balancing of the game so that casual players can keep up. I know lvl 16 players who still do not have Planar Girds.

Meh, my voice will be lost in the cheerleader chrous, I for one am quite disappointed in many aspects of MOD 9--but I play the game a heck of a lot more than I post on the forums.

[branmakmuffin]

I find it funny that there are the same 15- 20 Turbine cheerleaders hitting all these threads to drown out those who are unhappy with any aspect of the Mod 9 Changes.

Meh, my voice will be lost in the cheerleader chrous, I for one am quite disappointed in many aspects of MOD 9--but I play the game a heck of a lot more than I post on the forums.
Check the posts in this thread. There are pretty much no "cheerleader" posts.

[seldarin]

Lol, all the caterwaulin going on about this is quite amusing. I made a triple pos item for the +6 to charisma skills, the rez clickie at tier II was just an added extra. How many larges did you waste to get it? I would hazard a guess and say none, cos its tier II isnt it, not tier III? So realistically you could make a bunch of tier II rez/raise dead clickies, using only smalls and mediums and they are pretty easy to come across. So ease up folks, whats the big deal? The world isnt ending.

[seldarin]

and a greensteel blank, a signet stone, greensteel bank ingredients, small shard, and medium shard......


Did you make it for any of the other side effects of the item? If so, you still get those benefits and not just the rez/raise dead. You didnt seriously make a GS item with no regard to other effects that are on it, just for the true res did you? If you did that would be a bit silly dont you think. If you made it for other benefits, those benefits still apply and raise dead is still more useful than not having one at all isnt it?

[xberto]

True Resurrection Nerf is........not a game breaker.
Most item, once considered valuable, regardless of how much you paid or how much time you spent farming, will eventually loses it's shine. Some items faster than others.

[Mhykke]

Did you make it for any of the other side effects of the item? If so, you still get those benefits and not just the rez/raise dead. You didnt seriously make a GS item with no regard to other effects that are on it, just for the true res did you? If you did that would be a bit silly dont you think. If you made it for other benefits, those benefits still apply and raise dead is still more useful than not having one at all isnt it?

No, didn't make it for side effects.

Wanted an ability to raise people from the dead on characters with no UMD, and who didn't meet alignment restrictions the rez ring had.

That's "a bit" silly why exactly?

As to my post you quoted, there was nothing wrong with it. I simply added that small and medium ingredients weren't the only things used to craft the item, as the person I was quoting suggested.



I understand why they need to do it.


You do? Could you help me understand the "need"? Just curious.

[krud]

Partial decontruct? what are you going to turn all those tier2 into??? get back some small, meds and maybe a shard, and then what? What is so compelling that needs to be crafted in its place? haste clickies? That should give you some kind of indication how good it was. Hardly anyone makes any other tier 2 items just for the clickie.

These are the type of items a majority of people crafted with their throwaway ingredients. So you had to grind the vale while on timer. What else are you gonna do? It's not like you can run the shroud continuously. At least you were guaranteed your stone at the end of the quests.

It's not a huge nerf by any means. I always thought as far as tier 2 effects go, that one was overpowered compared to all the others. It's still useful, just not as overpowered as before.

[Mhykke]

Hardly anyone makes any other tier 2 items just for the clickie.



I know a few that just created haste clickies, or displacement clickies, etc.


It's not a huge nerf by any means.

I agree. It's not huge. But it doesn't make sense. It's just a change for the heck of it.

[moops]

True Resurrection Nerf is........not a game breaker.
Most item, once considered valuable, regardless of how much you paid or how much time you spent farming, will eventually loses it's shine. Some items faster than others.

Yes it's not a game breaker, its just the way that Turbine is implementing this change and a few others, their reasoning is not consistent, and it's very irritating.

And this prob hurts the casual player more who did craft these--I for one have 4 of them that I will just throw out--but I have enough ingredients to craft 20 more things to 3rd tier if I want--ill just craft more haste clickies and Symbol of Weakness clickies. But what about the people who don't get to play as much as I do? The people who are not in an awesoem guild that can get a ton of fast shroud runs done in one night?

true, perhaps Mod 9 will eclipse all shroud stuff and we won't even want to run it anymore, but somehow I doubt that.

[Jendrak]

This is definatly a **** poor change in an already **** poor mod.

Of all the things you could have spent the last 9 months working on you chose to make a mod full of nerfs. You should all be fired/shot/locked in basement which ever is cheapest since this is obvisouly how you planned this mod.

I have been very careful to always back you guys up and say yall are workign hard to make the game better. I even took alot of heat on the escapist forums for trying to bring new people into the game because i just knew you guys were gonna fix it.But with this pile of steaming **** you call a mod i'm done with it.

If you wanna waste your time fine, but when you start fixing **** that aint even ****ing broke your wasteing my money and thats BS and I'll be damned if i cause someone else to waste money so you turds can draw a paycheck.

[WestiesMA]

I would have NEVER used my ingredients for a raise dead effect. I do not have a problem with anything else you all have changed to preserve the overall balance of the game, but the above change is a waste of mine and other players valuable ingredients.

Suggestion... please consider making the effect on triple Positive shroud item a "Resurrection" instead of droping the effect all the way down to a "Raise Dead." If i wanted a "Raise Dead' clickie, I would farm for the Ring.

Players, please voice your opinion about this change... it's your ingredients as well.

I feel your pain - I just finished my triple Positive item on Sunday on my sorc. I should have done the triple air and gotten the haste clickie :mad:

[ThrasherGT]

Did anyone consider that we're getting higher level loot with the new Mod? All this hand-wringing and teeth-gnashing when, in all probability, most of our present loot will be obsolete...................Lighten up.............

[muffinlad]

quoted directly from release notes:

"The plane of irian is waning! All permanent magic items that produce a "Resurrection" or
"True Resurrection" effect now produce a "Raise Dead" effect. This includes items with the
"Aspect of Positive Energy" effect from the Shroud."

I would have NEVER used my ingredients for a raise dead effect. I do not have a problem with anything else you all have changed to preserve the overall balance of the game, but the above change is a waste of mine and other players valuable ingredients.

Suggestion... please consider making the effect on triple Positive shroud item a "Resurrection" instead of droping the effect all the way down to a "Raise Dead." If i wanted a "Raise Dead' clickie, I would farm for the Ring.

Players, please voice your opinion about this change... it's your ingredients as well.

I agree with you, this was an un-needed change, and poorly handled.

At the very least it should have been Raise Dead/3 charges, or Res/2 charges. To simply lower it to Raise Dead is poor form.

muffincoach

[muffinlad]

True Resurrection Nerf is........not a game breaker.
Most item, once considered valuable, regardless of how much you paid or how much time you spent farming, will eventually loses it's shine. Some items faster than others.

True. At any level. Meaning, leaving it in the game was not a game breaker, and did not need to be done.

Thus the post of poor form....not DOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM


muffindoomer

[Riorik]

I feel your pain - I just finished my triple Positive item on Sunday on my sorc. I should have done the triple air and gotten the haste clickie :mad:

Now that'd be silly, on a Sorceror. You're still better off (slightly) with a Raise clicky whether or not you can scroll it.

I've always sort of had the opinion that the prevalence of clickies is what let to the downfall (divergence) of DDO (from PnP). Basically, non caster/divine builds could rather easily acquire & use spells that ordinarily are simply unavailable regardless of how much UMD you might have. Most games simple don't make scrolls available in the quantities we use them...in a MMO.

That's sort of my preface for...just like with certain AOE persistent effects that were removed from the easily availability list over a year ago, True Resurrection is, apparently, now on that same sort of list of effects they only want to see from an actual spellcaster. I suppose it does give the Clerics something unique that only they can do...and that can't really be "bad".

I do think it was unnecessary. I only have one...and it happens the be the only item I have on my original/very first character 28pt Wizard...that wasn't even remotely close to being built for UMD. It's still useful, just not quite as nifty.

[seldarin]

No, didn't make it for side effects.

Wanted an ability to raise people from the dead on characters with no UMD, and who didn't meet alignment restrictions the rez ring had.

That's "a bit" silly why exactly?

As to my post you quoted, there was nothing wrong with it. I simply added that small and medium ingredients weren't the only things used to craft the item, as the person I was quoting suggested.




You do? Could you help me understand the "need"? Just curious.

What i find silly is just randomly creating an item for 1 effect, when there were others that could be incorporated and used to enhance your skills. To use those ingredients for just one thing is asking for trouble. I created +++ item for my bard, +6 to charisma skills, extra spell pts and rez as a result, and throw in greater disruption guard. Overall usability, 100 percent. The rez clickie is for when im out of scrolls if that ever happens.

But seriously to create so many for just the clickie alone and no sign of functionality of the rest of it is IMO very silly. Do you make weapons the same random way?

I personally make ALL GS items to function with everything, not just one part. If i made haste clickies (which i havent yet), then the rest of the item would have a function too, not just for the clickie. But each to their own, your ingredients :)

[Mhykke]

What i find silly is just randomly creating an item for 1 effect, when there were others that could be incorporated and used to enhance your skills. To use those ingredients for just one thing is asking for trouble. I created +++ item for my bard, +6 to charisma skills, extra spell pts and rez as a result, and throw in greater disruption guard. Overall usability, 100 percent. The rez clickie is for when im out of scrolls if that ever happens.

But seriously to create so many for just the clickie alone and no sign of functionality of the rest of it is IMO very silly. Do you make weapons the same random way?

I personally make ALL GS items to function with everything, not just one part. If i made haste clickies (which i havent yet), then the rest of the item would have a function too, not just for the clickie. But each to their own, your ingredients :)

Ummm, I made the item as a clicky, not something I wear or use all the time. I don't equip it as normal gear. I use it as necessary (someone dies, I put it on and click raise).

You find it silly to create one item for this use. I ask again. For a character with not enough UMD, and that doesn't meet alignment restrictions for a rez ring, why is it exactly silly to craft the cabability to rez someone?

[Riggs]

True a pos clickie will still raise dead.

But there are other raise dead options, but there are no other crafted resurrection options.

Large ingredients, and 5 quests for a signet stone, 12 vale collectables to make the gs blank...thats a lot of grinding to make a specific item that has been available for a year now.

Changing the effects on crafted items is a slap to people who have spent time and energy grinding away in a game that advertised itself as a non-grinding mmo.

Allowing deconstruction of gs items when the game makes a big change is only fair.

but then again it isnt about fair now is it....

[bloodyrag]

i have to agree the nerf does kinf of suck its not the end of the world or even the end of playing for me even tho i have made true rez clickies on all my toons but a bit annoyed at it drop it back to resurrection or allow deconstruct those small shards are hard to get no matter how many times u run it i feel sorry for the casual gamer who doesnt have the time to put into getting everything he or she wants decides on something spends what little time he or she has getting it then its nerfed just a bit of bad form turbine

[geoffhanna]

I understand why they need to do it.

You do? Could you help me understand the "need"? Just curious.

This thread has moved on but just in case my speculations are still relevant, I expect it has more to do with the release of True Res as an available spell than anything else.

Having a clickie that everyone already owns cheapens something that now needs to be at the very top of the divine magic foodchain.

Which - IMHO - does not prevent grandfathering existing items, or (especially) make it ok to release the nerf without also releasing greensteel deconstruction. But no one asked me ;)

[Arianrhod]

As I recall, there was some mention some time ago of Eberron coming into alignment with Irian, making positive energy effects (like Raise Dead) temporarily more powerful (like true res). Maybe they should have put up a big warning sign whenever someone did anything that was affected by the planar alignment (like craft a clickie), but they did give some indication that the situation was not permanent - just a nice perk for a little while.

[Mhykke]

As I recall, there was some mention some time ago of Eberron coming into alignment with Irian, making positive energy effects (like Raise Dead) temporarily more powerful (like true res). Maybe they should have put up a big warning sign whenever someone did anything that was affected by the planar alignment (like craft a clickie), but they did give some indication that the situation was not permanent - just a nice perk for a little while.

Interesting. I guess this planar alignment for some reason didn't affect rez rings, the rez spell, or the resurrection spell, only the "raise" affect from greensteel items.

[Mirak]

/signed

[Jefro]

Using the waning , shouldn't something grow more powerful for one plane becoming stronger or chance for this to change again in another mod?

I think having the shroud true res allows groups to do quests without clerics, and those with no umd to still keep the party after an accident or a cleric disconnecting. Clerics are actually getting rarer to find, as the mods are making other classes much more inviting and fun.

[Archetype]

This is just another example of how Turbine doesn't "get" where it's playerbase is coming from. Changing a longstanding, widely-used player-friendly feature, *without* providing some kind of "respec" mechanism to allow those who did the grinding to acquire said feature is....simply a slap in the face to their longest-paying customers.

No, those "lost Shroud ingredients" are NOT an insignificant resource. Each Small, Medium and Large ingredient permanently bound in an item that is retroactively nerfed into something LESS useful than it was crafted to be becomes....well, like a devalued share of "DDO Stock." The subscribers (stockholders) who invested in that stock (ingredient) with their grinding (time/plat) are being handed back less of a return on investment (if not complete loss of value for some). This makes stockholders unhappy. They see a poorly-performing company. Unhappy stockholders = ex-stockholders. :mad:

If Turbine doesn't want unhappy (read: "soon-to-be-ex") subscribers, it needs to provide some kind of "investment recovery mechanism" to allow those who crafted a surprise-company-nerfed Greensteel item to get back their Ingredients.

Such as the long-promised "Greensteel Item Deconstruction" feature.

BTW, I have a few capped characters that are just bankbots now, because of Turbine nerfs or having rebuilt them as a better toon (my WF Sorc is far superior to my Drow sorc b/c of self-healing). But I really don't want to kill them off for ONE remaining factor: they all have a ton of Greensteel crafting invested in them. They are holding hostage items that I gave my blood, sweat, time and plat to acquire (Shroud Ingredients). If I had a way to Greensteel Deconstruct, I could also finally get rid of these bad/nerfed builds, pass those resources onto my better builds, and not feel cheated of my playtime rewards.

Just FYI, Greensteel Deconstructing would go a LONG way to making DDO more attractive to stay with long-term, eh? ;)

[DragonKiller]

I haven't read this whole thread, and I'm hoping that it hasn't deteriorated into a complete flame feast that will cause Turbine to ignore it.

If they are still reading it though, I'd really like to understand the reasoning behind this.

I, my wife and several other guildies do have True Res Pos-Pos-Pos items and have spent a great deal of time and resources to make these items. While I do understand that there might be several "power gamers" that will make several of these items, I don't understand how that can really change the balance of the game. It's only 1 res per rest, per item. How is this more over powering than is a player who takes 1 lvl of Rogue (or Bard) and then maxes thier UMD so they can throw Res scrolls until the cows come home?

While there are several other "nerf's" that are occuring in this Mod, this one to me seems the silliest, and honestly hurts the more causal players the most. Your hard core players that have 10 lvl 16 characters that all have 100+ shroud runs on them are the LEAST affected by this change, but the more casual players (A hand full of caped characters, with 20 - 40 runs at most) are hurt the most as every large or shard is much harder for them to come by.

All I request is you reconsider this, or open it up for an honest debate with your customers so all sides can at least see each others points and hopefully come to a mutual agreement.

Thanks!

[Phidius]

...who seriously thinks that all those high-powered effects are going to remain static? That they won't be tuned (read: nerfed) more toward a reasonable range of effects?


I don't understand... the high-powered effect of the double positive was the Improved Spell Power and +3 to Charisma skills that stacked with everything. One charge of True Resurrection was icing on the cake... tasty icing to be sure, but just icing.

Which of these got nerfed again? The icing???


I find it funny that there are the same 15- 20 Turbine cheerleaders hitting all these threads to drown out those who are unhappy with any aspect of the Mod 9 Changes.

I agree, this nerf was pretty dumb--think of all the LVL 9 items that we still use at Lvl 16. . .These are clearly too powerful for Lvl 9 Players, and lvl 9 players who just started playing the game won't really have a chance to get these, so they should raise the lvl on these items or nerf them if Trubine is going to stay true ot the balancing of the game so that casual players can keep up. I know lvl 16 players who still do not have Planar Girds.

Meh, my voice will be lost in the cheerleader chrous, I for one am quite disappointed in many aspects of MOD 9--but I play the game a heck of a lot more than I post on the forums.

Shhhh!! Don't feed the suggestion box!!

Precious is still annoyed that people are using planar girds to supply their own GH. That's his job, d**g it... stop treating his blue bar as if it was his!!!!

jk, of course.



It's not a huge nerf by any means. I always thought as far as tier 2 effects go, that one was overpowered compared to all the others. It's still useful, just not as overpowered as before.

Overpowered icing FTW


Using the waning , shouldn't something grow more powerful for one plane becoming stronger or chance for this to change again in another mod?

I think having the shroud true res allows groups to do quests without clerics, and those with no umd to still keep the party after an accident or a cleric disconnecting. Clerics are actually getting rarer to find, as the mods are making other classes much more inviting and fun.

For the record, clerics are getting rarer to find because some people NEED them to be able to complete. I have no problem clericing groups that wait for me to raise them after I kill all the mobs... it's the groups that expect me to sit back and spam heals on them while they have all the fun that I stay away from.

For the record, a single clicky of True Res is not enough for most groups to complete without clerics. Even if you fill your backpack with them.

You'll find more clerics when you need them less.

[DasLurch]

I do not understand the "why" of this change. I do not think it's that big of a deal though. The rez effect is a level 2 effect on a green steel item/weapon. If you can't spare the bits and pieces for that by now, you haven't been running the shroud at all since it came out. It is disappointing that there was a "need" to change this. It should not be dropped down to a raise dead level IMO. A resurection spell effect would have been a moderate change to what was a very cheap an powerful item to make for a level 13 character.

[Lifespawn]

Interesting. I guess this planar alignment for some reason didn't affect rez rings, the rez spell, or the resurrection spell, only the "raise" affect from greensteel items.

the jellies are effected maybe the spells and ring aren't aligned like the rez clicky and the cakes?

Either way you still have a way to raise dead on your non umd char does it suck they changed it yes but it's only tier 2 if it was tier 3 i'd be all over them for it even tho i don't have a clicky made just for the rez mines made for the sp the raise is just a bonus.