gfunk
04-07-2009, 01:11 PM
Here are some end game mobs and what mod 9 changes. I made a new thread, as this concerned both transmuting, and stat damage so didnt fit into either catagory. I tried to highlighting the old prefered methods of killing in red, and the new prefered methods in green.
Previously, dps worked well on, and/or was prefered against: gnolls, trogs, memphits, skeletons, mind flayers and some low hp devils and orthons (like those found in the vale). The increase in dps with mod 9 will make this even more viable, so changes to stat damage weren't really neccessary to promote the use of dps vs these mobs. The real changes is that we now have bralani, ghaeles, gaints and elementals to add to the list of mobs that must be killed with dps, however people will need to carry a greater variety of transmuting weapons
In many cases, wounding of puncturing weapons will simply be replaced with vorpals. Noteable exceptions are bralani, ghaeles, elementals, and giants (as above) which are largely immune to vorpals. Although stat damage worked well on many mobs, it was vs. the previously mentioned 4 mobs that they were considered to be quite critical. DPS will now be required to kill these 4.
The other common mobs that were w/p'd (flensers, reavers, renders, devils, orthons) will now be killed with vorpals.
Beholders: Previously the prefered method of killing these were with weakening of puncturing (due to their low strength, they quickly went into auto-crit). w/p was reasonable to kill them however now, w/e will be the stat damage of choice by far and will be used in conjunction with dps.
Bearded Devil: previously bearded devils in the Vale and vale quests could be dps'd or banished. Prefered weapons in the vale will be either banishers or dps. Devils in the subterrane had too many hit points and could not be banished, so now the prefered method of killing will be vorpals. I don't think that people will bother with w/p to put them into autocrit mode.
Bralani/Ghaele: w/p was important here because of dr/ and deathblock. Vorpal isn't really an option unless you get to them very quickly. Transmuting weapons will still work to bypass dr of bralanis (cold iron) however ghaeles will require mineral II weapons (cold iron+evil). These mobs will be tricky to kill, however i think that people will still use stat damage (maybe more leaning towards str damage) in conjunction with mineral IIs
Flensers, Reavers, Renders. Before, w/p were probably prefered for these mobs and as with many other mobs,vorpals will now replace stat damage as the weapons of choice. DPS has been viable for all of these mobs except the Protectors in hound. The only real option for these guys will now be vorpals. In terms of DPS, Plain transmuters will no longer to the trick, as you need good/holy+cold iron.
Giants: Most of these at end game have deathblock, so dps will replace w/p as the main option. Giants all have pretty high str and con, so I'm not sure if people will bother much with stat damage to put them into auto-crit, or if people will go straight to dps weapons. Giants in TOR are fairly reasonable to DPS for lvl 16 characters with good weapons, however the mobs will be a bit more challenging for more level appropriate 12 to 14 characters.
Gnolls and Troglodytes:DPS has always been fine for these mobs as they have fairly low hp. Even on my finesse ranger I found it easier to kill these with dps then with lesser w/p's such as daggers or shortswords. Many gnolls and trogs can be banished. Overall, they are an easy to kill mob so there isn't much change here.
Orthons: As with devils, Vale orthons will continue to be effectively killed with dps. Subterrane and shroud orthons will be taken mostly with vorpals, which will replace w/p. The increase in dps in mod 9 should make it somewhat more reasonable to dps orthons in shroud.
Mephits: squishy mobs vs pretty much any weapon type. They are easy to dps, or banish. vorpals or w/p were never neccesary.
Air Elemental: before w/p ranged weapons were pretty much the only way to effectively kill these mobs. There is no practical way to melee an air elemental. The only practical (non-caster) way to kill these now will be with transmuting ranged weapons. It might prove effective to use weaken/enfeeble on them before dpsing with ranged as i suspect they have lower str then con, however that is just a gut feel.
Earth Elemental: Due to high dr/, w/p has been the weapon of choice for these mobs. As they cannot be critically hit even if reduced to 0 str/con/dex/cha they must be killed with dps.
Mind flayers:Dps has always been fine for these mobs. Strength damage will continue to be very useful due to the mind flayers low str. Vorpals will continue to work well. I don't see much changing with how we kill these mobs.
Giant Skeletons: Skeletons have dr/blunt so transmuters will no longer suffice to bypass DR. Giant skeletons have fairly high, though not insurmountable hit points. Still, many builds (Esp finesse builds) will want to have blunt weapons now in order to combat these.
Gelatinous Cubes:w/p ranged weapons were the prefered way of dealing with these. Ranged dps will now replace this.
Golems. Some golems require blunt weapons to bypass dr/. Smiting will continue to be the best way to kill these, except flesh golems which have a high will save. Clay golems will need blunt weapons if not smiting.
Living Spells: before the prefered way to deal with these was to reduce their str to 0 so that they would become helpless. With stat regeneration, this becomes less of an option if you plan on staying in the area for an extended period of time. w/e or w/p will still work well to disable these. I suspect that people will use a combination of stat damage and dps.
It all seems rather silly to me. Vorpals will now be used more commonly in shroud/vod/hound to kill the high hp mobs found there (though they always gave w/p users a run for their money on kills in these quests anyways). These changes are not a win for dps advocates imo... they will now likely just complain about people with vorpals.
Mostly, people will just struggle more with air elementals, giants, bralani and ghaeles in the few quests that these mobs are in. Casters will have a similar but increased role in killing these mobs. These changes just add to the list of weapons that are becoming less useable at end game (paralyzers, disruptors, banishers..). You can now add w/p to that list. Vorpals and smiters remain as the only weapons of the power 5 that are still effective at end game, though there aren't many golems around these days.
Previously, dps worked well on, and/or was prefered against: gnolls, trogs, memphits, skeletons, mind flayers and some low hp devils and orthons (like those found in the vale). The increase in dps with mod 9 will make this even more viable, so changes to stat damage weren't really neccessary to promote the use of dps vs these mobs. The real changes is that we now have bralani, ghaeles, gaints and elementals to add to the list of mobs that must be killed with dps, however people will need to carry a greater variety of transmuting weapons
In many cases, wounding of puncturing weapons will simply be replaced with vorpals. Noteable exceptions are bralani, ghaeles, elementals, and giants (as above) which are largely immune to vorpals. Although stat damage worked well on many mobs, it was vs. the previously mentioned 4 mobs that they were considered to be quite critical. DPS will now be required to kill these 4.
The other common mobs that were w/p'd (flensers, reavers, renders, devils, orthons) will now be killed with vorpals.
Beholders: Previously the prefered method of killing these were with weakening of puncturing (due to their low strength, they quickly went into auto-crit). w/p was reasonable to kill them however now, w/e will be the stat damage of choice by far and will be used in conjunction with dps.
Bearded Devil: previously bearded devils in the Vale and vale quests could be dps'd or banished. Prefered weapons in the vale will be either banishers or dps. Devils in the subterrane had too many hit points and could not be banished, so now the prefered method of killing will be vorpals. I don't think that people will bother with w/p to put them into autocrit mode.
Bralani/Ghaele: w/p was important here because of dr/ and deathblock. Vorpal isn't really an option unless you get to them very quickly. Transmuting weapons will still work to bypass dr of bralanis (cold iron) however ghaeles will require mineral II weapons (cold iron+evil). These mobs will be tricky to kill, however i think that people will still use stat damage (maybe more leaning towards str damage) in conjunction with mineral IIs
Flensers, Reavers, Renders. Before, w/p were probably prefered for these mobs and as with many other mobs,vorpals will now replace stat damage as the weapons of choice. DPS has been viable for all of these mobs except the Protectors in hound. The only real option for these guys will now be vorpals. In terms of DPS, Plain transmuters will no longer to the trick, as you need good/holy+cold iron.
Giants: Most of these at end game have deathblock, so dps will replace w/p as the main option. Giants all have pretty high str and con, so I'm not sure if people will bother much with stat damage to put them into auto-crit, or if people will go straight to dps weapons. Giants in TOR are fairly reasonable to DPS for lvl 16 characters with good weapons, however the mobs will be a bit more challenging for more level appropriate 12 to 14 characters.
Gnolls and Troglodytes:DPS has always been fine for these mobs as they have fairly low hp. Even on my finesse ranger I found it easier to kill these with dps then with lesser w/p's such as daggers or shortswords. Many gnolls and trogs can be banished. Overall, they are an easy to kill mob so there isn't much change here.
Orthons: As with devils, Vale orthons will continue to be effectively killed with dps. Subterrane and shroud orthons will be taken mostly with vorpals, which will replace w/p. The increase in dps in mod 9 should make it somewhat more reasonable to dps orthons in shroud.
Mephits: squishy mobs vs pretty much any weapon type. They are easy to dps, or banish. vorpals or w/p were never neccesary.
Air Elemental: before w/p ranged weapons were pretty much the only way to effectively kill these mobs. There is no practical way to melee an air elemental. The only practical (non-caster) way to kill these now will be with transmuting ranged weapons. It might prove effective to use weaken/enfeeble on them before dpsing with ranged as i suspect they have lower str then con, however that is just a gut feel.
Earth Elemental: Due to high dr/, w/p has been the weapon of choice for these mobs. As they cannot be critically hit even if reduced to 0 str/con/dex/cha they must be killed with dps.
Mind flayers:Dps has always been fine for these mobs. Strength damage will continue to be very useful due to the mind flayers low str. Vorpals will continue to work well. I don't see much changing with how we kill these mobs.
Giant Skeletons: Skeletons have dr/blunt so transmuters will no longer suffice to bypass DR. Giant skeletons have fairly high, though not insurmountable hit points. Still, many builds (Esp finesse builds) will want to have blunt weapons now in order to combat these.
Gelatinous Cubes:w/p ranged weapons were the prefered way of dealing with these. Ranged dps will now replace this.
Golems. Some golems require blunt weapons to bypass dr/. Smiting will continue to be the best way to kill these, except flesh golems which have a high will save. Clay golems will need blunt weapons if not smiting.
Living Spells: before the prefered way to deal with these was to reduce their str to 0 so that they would become helpless. With stat regeneration, this becomes less of an option if you plan on staying in the area for an extended period of time. w/e or w/p will still work well to disable these. I suspect that people will use a combination of stat damage and dps.
It all seems rather silly to me. Vorpals will now be used more commonly in shroud/vod/hound to kill the high hp mobs found there (though they always gave w/p users a run for their money on kills in these quests anyways). These changes are not a win for dps advocates imo... they will now likely just complain about people with vorpals.
Mostly, people will just struggle more with air elementals, giants, bralani and ghaeles in the few quests that these mobs are in. Casters will have a similar but increased role in killing these mobs. These changes just add to the list of weapons that are becoming less useable at end game (paralyzers, disruptors, banishers..). You can now add w/p to that list. Vorpals and smiters remain as the only weapons of the power 5 that are still effective at end game, though there aren't many golems around these days.