Petition To Stop Wounding And Puncturing Nurff

[osirisisis]

Why? Detailed report here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=178170)

[osirisisis]

I'll go first.....
SIGNED

[Bombalo]

/not signed

[Monkey_Archer]

ROFLMAO :D

/not signed

[Thame]

/not signed

[CSFurious]

even though, i think that having 0 con should = death from a logical standpoint, i think that sometimes the game needs to be balanced

the forthcoming changes are an example of such balancing

/not signed

[GrayOldDruid]

/Unsigned (hoping to counter a future sign even moreso than a /not signed)

The actual impact on gameplay for the 'nerf' will be totally minimal.

I'm more upset about taking away the True Rez clickies on my greensteel. WHY? Its only ONE freakin clickie, not a spell... and all those ingredients for ONE stupid raise dead? LAME. (not that I use it all that often, but still, its the principle of the thing. ROFLOL)

[Grimdiegn]

even though, i think that having 0 con should = death from a logical standpoint, i think that sometimes the game needs to be balanced

the forthcoming changes are an example of such balancing

/not signed

This.

[BlackSteel]

/not signed

[...v...]

Why? Detailed report here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=178170)

/signed all those who didnt sign dont have WoP. Why not nerf vorpals? The answer is obvious.

[Quanefel]

/Not signed.


All the w/p weapons that I have and never use will sit in my bank as normal.

[Accelerando]

/signed all those who didnt sign dont have WoP. Why not nerf vorpals? The answer is obvious.

Know your DDO history, they did.

LOL. WoPs are still really nice for my str based rogues. Too bad for the rangers. See ya!

/not signed

[...v...]

Know your DDO history, they did.

LOL. WoPs are still really nice for my str based rogues. Too bad for the rangers. See ya!

/not signed


youre just a perfect example of the "have nots"

[Monkey_Archer]

youre just a perfect example of the "have nots"

Rofl...
i will be happy to finally put down my wops and have all my other weapons move out of the obsolete bin.

On a side note... sorjek and prey on the hunter just moved up from "effortless"

[...v...]

Rofl...
i will be happy to finally put down my wops and have all my other weapons move out of the obsolete bin.

good for you, I dont see why I need to fill my backback with 2 dozen weapon sets for every occasion. Post a SS of your toon with a WoP.

[...v...]

/signed

[Monkey_Archer]

good for you, I dont see why I need to fill my backback with 2 dozen weapon sets for every occasion. Post a SS of your toon with a WoP.

Yeah... vorpals and min2s fill up inventory :D

[...v...]

Yeah... vorpals and min2s fill up inventory :D

Sorjek isnt effortless, I dont like having to run the same quest over and over a hundred times to get one silly rune. Now it will take an hour to get 1 rune vs 20 minutes. Thanks beavis.

[Rog]

/signed all those who didnt sign dont have WoP. Why not nerf vorpals? The answer is obvious.

The vorpal was the first major nerf they made! back in the day loot running co6 elite was the loot run of the day to pull vorpals! vorpals would chop your head off at crit range if you had a scimtar it would chop your head off at 15 to 20. can we CAN WE GET A SHOUT OUT MISTER NERF ALOT. they nerfed the vorpals faster than you could blink this guy on khyber used to solo the spine when they cap was still 10 with his mighy omighty vorpal. why do vorpals need nerfed again!

[...v...]

The vorpal was the first major nerf they made! back in the day loot running co6 elite was the loot run of the day to pull vorpals! vorpals would chop your head off at crit range if you had a scimtar it would chop your head off at 15 to 20. can we CAN WE GET A SHOUT OUT MISTER NERF ALOT. they nerfed the vorpals faster than you could blink this guy on khyber used to solo the spine when they cap was still 10 with his mighy omighty vorpal. why do vorpals need nerfed again!

same reason WoPs do. Not to mention they gave mobs death wards so a Vorp is useless now in some quests.

[shores11]

Why? Detailed report here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=178170)

/not signed

[Monkey_Archer]

Sorjek isnt effortless, I dont like having to run the same quest over and over a hundred times to get one silly rune. Now it will take an hour to get 1 rune vs 20 minutes. Thanks beavis.

You realise that a 0 stat mob is as good as dead anyway? right?

The only thing that has changed is the wop user wont automatically get that "all important" kill shot. :rolleyes:

Keep crying though... thats how we ended up with the nerf in the first place :D

[Yurtrus]

Call the WHammmmmmmmmmbulance the game just got more interesting! OMG, what will the zergers do??? Stop whining and play the game. You'll adapt, we all do.

Oh and here's your lolipop..

/not signed

[...v...]

You realise that a 0 stat mob is as good as dead anyway? right?

The only thing that has changed is the wop user wont automatically get that "all important" kill shot. :rolleyes:

Keep crying though... thats how we ended up with the nerf in the first place :D

you dont get it, even if it is stunned you still have to beat it down = MORE TIME. I dont know about you but time is premium for me.

[Slink]

I won't sign this.

Been waiting for over a year for eveyone else to put up their stat damagers so we can play with the gear we worked so hard to make.

Think I don't own stat damagers?

+3 cursespewing rapier of puncturing
(2) +4 crippling rapier of puncturing (1 rr: halfling)
(2) +1 bodyfeeder rapier of puncturing
(2) +1 bodyfeeder ss of puncturing
+3 bodyfeeder ss of puncturing rr:wf
+5 frost rapier of puncturing
+3 wop SS
+3 wop dagger
+2 wop light pick
+3 wop light pick rr: wf
+1 wop rapier
+2 wop rapier rr elf/drow
+1 wop light crossbow (only used this on my cleric in Tor vs. stoned giants)

Want to see my list for maladroit/BB and weaken/enfeebling?

Ask and I'll post it as well.

[...v...]

Call the WHammmmmmmmmmbulance the game just got more interesting! OMG, what will the zergers do??? Stop whining and play the game. You'll adapt, we all do.

Oh and here's your lolipop..

/not signed


lol I guess you cant keep up.

[Helmet]

agreed.
/not signed

wop is overpowered

nerfing transmuting is still dumb tho.
i dont get how its overpowered.

[uhgungawa]

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[...v...]

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

/Not signed

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

guess you dont have one either lol

[Monkey_Archer]

you dont get it, even if it is stunned you still have to beat it down = MORE TIME. I dont know about you but time is premium for me.

I would take longer quests that take effort and thought over effortless grinds anyday.

Well, for me at least this is a game, not a job.....

Oh, and just for fun, a couple guildies and I did sorjek with pure dps.... finished in just over 30 minutes. Im sure it can be done much faster.

[...v...]

I would take longer quests that take effort and thought over effortless grinds anyday.

Well, for me at least this is a game, not a job.....

Oh, and just for fun, a couple guildies and I did sorjek with pure dps.... finished in just over 30 minutes. Im sure it can be done much faster.

Try 15 minutes. To me it's effort having to run a quest over and over the get one rune.

[Yurtrus]

I really wish this forum showed how long a player has been playing. This way I could decide whether or not I would even reply.

Here's some advice.. GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE! I am sick of the mentality " I've run a quest 10 times and know it so well I'm going to take off and not FOLLOW THE LEADER." Yes, that's right.. each quest has a leader. Try paying attention once in awhile rather then just showing off and getting killed. You're the reason groups fail.

[Monkey_Archer]

Try 15 minutes. To me it's effort having to run a quest over and over the get one rune.

Its unforutnate that you dont enjoy your "work"

[...v...]

I really wish this forum showed how long a player has been playing. This way I could decide whether or not I would even reply.

Here's some advice.. GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE! I am sick of the mentality " I've run a quest 10 times and know it so well I'm going to take off and not FOLLOW THE LEADER." Yes, that's right.. each quest has a leader. Try paying attention once in awhile rather then just showing off and getting killed. Your the reason groups fail.

roflmao, I havent been in many quests that failed. Just so you know I played for almost 3 years now. It must be an ego trip for you to bare the star. Let me ask you this, if I'm running ahead killing stuff and you cant keep up what are you doing? I mean I ran ahead I killed stuff and you still cant keep up walking, something is wrong man and it's not with the game. I got some 30% stridders for you so you can keep up.

[Kerrn_Siff]

what are they doing to w/p?

[...v...]

Its unforutnate that you dont enjoy your "work"

I love playing DDO, I love the speed runs and all those who cry zergers are just not up to par yet.

[Accelerando]

youre just a perfect example of the "have nots"

Am I?

I had WoPs way before you did. Guarantee.

I also had a vorpal most likely before you had ever even seen one in action.

I had a Tier III Greensteel before you had a small ingredients bag.

Go home.

[...v...]

Am I?

I had WoPs way before you did. Guarantee.

I also had a vorpal most likely before you had ever even seen one in action.

I had a Tier III Greensteel before you had a small ingredients bag.

Go home.


and I can asure you that you own one dirty diaper.

[FluffyCalico]

not signed this is the mod of the caster and its about time

[Monkey_Archer]

:)
I love playing DDO, I love the speed runs and all those who cry zergers are just not up to par yet.

Then you should be happy they made a decision that helps balance the game.

[Dragon.Star]

/not signed --- at least they made to where red's can be stat damaged also to a point.

[...v...]

:)

Then you should be happy they made a decision that helps balance then game.

Change is only good when it's for the better, I dont see this as being better. Not to mention I can reroll my piercing speced barb now.

[uhgungawa]

guess you dont have one either lol


I have several (only 2 rapiers between 10 toons though) And I still have no problem with the down grade. If you have a one trick pony build fix it. Even straight base Dex builds can do damage. My Str based DPS type out does my Dex based duel WoP rapier toon in almost any quest, so why would I have a problem. WoPs are over powered and are getting toned down. All other stat types are getting a boost. Deal with it and move on

[Monkey_Archer]

Change is only good when it's for the better, I dont see this as being better. Not to mention I can reroll my piercing speced barb now.

Count the "/not signed" s so far in this post.

I think its for the better.. and many agree

[Accelerando]

and I can asure you that you own one dirty diaper.

Judging from the amount of posts you have in this thread alone, I am going to posit that it is you with the dirty diaper.

LOL

We were trashing the content in this game before WoPs, and we will continue to do so without that crutch to lean on.

People like you who can't take care of business without easy button items might just have to acquire some gaming skills. Sorry if you don't feel so "uber" anymore. Perhaps that is because you are not.

I love my WoPs, but I am not going to whine and cry now that they are gone, just like I didn't whine and cry when my vorpal scimmy went from killing on a 10 on the fourth attack, to only killing on a 20.

[osirisisis]

I won't sign this.

Been waiting for over a year for eveyone else to put up their stat damagers so we can play with the gear we worked so hard to make.

Think I don't own stat damagers?

+3 cursespewing rapier of puncturing
(2) +4 crippling rapier of puncturing (1 rr: halfling)
(2) +1 bodyfeeder rapier of puncturing
(2) +1 bodyfeeder ss of puncturing
+3 bodyfeeder ss of puncturing rr:wf
+5 frost rapier of puncturing
+3 wop SS
+3 wop dagger
+2 wop light pick
+3 wop light pick rr: wf
+1 wop rapier
+2 wop rapier rr elf/drow
+1 wop light crossbow (only used this on my cleric in Tor vs. stoned giants)

Want to see my list for maladroit/BB and weaken/enfeebling?

Ask and I'll post it as well.

What a Joke your call getting a tier 3 weapon work. I been looting this game for 3 years and have never pulled a w/p rapier. Watch a bunch of children come in here and cry "w/p rapier (which takes on the average of 2 years of playing to pull one and in the same time U will pull 40 vorpals) is to strong nurff it" because they have played months and they want to have the same edge by putting in way less work. To note there R only 3 maybe 4 weapons on your list that R more effect then a mineral 3 teir khopesh on the majority of trash mobs anyway, that you should of put away already. To add taking into consideration the vorpal stack effect in the shroud and other raids that makes w/p worthless there to. If w/p goes 98% of the last 2 years of looting is now worthless which is a major slap in the faces to those players who have paid there subscriptions for 3 years and support this game in the beginning.

[Oxvon]

not sure what the big deal is, I mean you can still use WoP and have it be effective. It still takes their con to 0 and lowers their hp. So as long as you have a dps guy with you stuff should still go down quickly.

[Monkey_Archer]

not sure what the big deal is, I mean you can still use WoP and have it be effective. It still takes their con to 0 and lowers their hp. So as long as you have a dps guy with you stuff should still go down quickly.

/qft

Str damaging rogues anyone? :)

[FluffyCalico]

What a Joke your call getting a tier 3 weapon work. I been looting this game for 3 years and have never pulled a w/p rapier. Watch a bunch of children come in here and cry "w/p is to strong nurff it" because they have played months and they want to have the same edge by putting in way less work. To note there R only 3 maybe 4 weapons on your list that R more effect then a mineral 3 teir khopesh on the majority of trash mobs anyway, that you should of put away already. To add taking into consideration the vorpal stack effect in the shroud and other raids that makes w/p worthless there to. If w/p goes 98% of the last 2 years of looting is now worthless which is a major slap in the faces to those players who have paid there subscriptions for 3 years and support this game in the beginning.

and your monthly fee is the same as theirs. If one of them leaves they have lost the same as if you leave. I like who your sub is worth more than theirs

[Griphon]

NOT SIGNED

(And yes, I have a tempest ranger who dual wields W/P.)

[Accelerando]

Change is only good when it's for the better, I dont see this as being better. Not to mention I can reroll my piercing speced barb now.

LMAO. What is he dex based? Go get some Death Nips and stop whining. Certainly quicker to farm for those than WoPs or Dual Shards.

[Monkey_Archer]

Ya know...

Lots of people with/without wops agree with the nerf....

I wonder how many people who have never used a wop think they shouldnt nerf it :D

[Yurtrus]

yup, you're the guy that runs ahead, has no regard for the cleric and what it cost to heal you. I know your type. The fact that you are wasting a slot for 30% striders speaks loud and clear.

I think the masses speak for itself.. What is that like 40 unsigned to 2 signed.. lol

Can you please post your alts, just so I know who NOT to run with.. heh ;)

[arcsonist]

The wop nerf is a punk way of appasing a few cry babies I hate to see good weapons go to waste. Transmuters are also getting nerfed so I hear still reading up on that fiasco.


/signed

[Uproar]

/signed

[Oxvon]

yup, you're the guy that runs ahead, has no regard for the cleric and what it cost to heal you. I know your type. The fact that you are wasting a slot for 30% striders speaks loud and clear.

I think the masses speak for itself.. What is that like 40 unsigned to 2 signed.. lol

Can you please post your alts, just so I know who NOT to run with.. heh ;)

Don't know how this turned into zergers hate this change and nonzergers like the change.

Zergers are zergers, don't worry we will still zerg.

[Inspire]

Its gonna make quests more of a challenge, mainly attack strategy and organization though.

I planned for this nerf when all those red flags went up about 3 months ago...

/not signed.

[Logicman69]

/not signed..

I got my WOPs (pick and bow) and yes, I love them. Having come off playing a cleric with average dps, seeing the red bar go down on a enemy that fast was just pure joy. Leading the kill count in most quests was thrilling. But really, I'm not that upset about the nerf. I'll still use my WOP to drop their HP to next to nothing, then have a Burst weapon in my off-hand to finish the job. It should only take an extra swing or two to finish most mobs off. I really don't see what the big deal is.

[Xanstrollinoax]

/not signed, about freaking time in my book

[Quanefel]

/not signed..

I got my WOPs (pick and bow) and yes, I love them. Having come off playing a cleric with average dps, seeing the red bar go down on a enemy that fast was just pure joy. Leading the kill count in most quests was thrilling. But really, I'm not that upset about the nerf. I'll still use my WOP to drop their HP to next to nothing, then have a Burst weapon in my off-hand to finish the job. It should only take an extra swing or two to finish most mobs off. I really don't see what the big deal is.


Because some people are making a mountain out of a mole hill?

[Grosbeak07]

/not signed

I have given away all the WoP I have pulled, WoP doesn't come on a great axe, so I've really had no use for one, and I seem to do just fine.

The transmuting nerf makes sense as well, even if I don't like it.

[Vordax]

/not signed (and yes I have a WOP rapier and light pick)

Vordax

[cm2_supernova]

To be 100% honest, the only thing I use my WOPs on anymore is elite vale stuff and the Renders\Mindflayers in Hound...both of which are easily worked around with either vorps or good DPS.

I really dont think that it is going to change the game that much and WOPs arent dead...they are just brought into line with the rest of stat damagers. A 0 Con enemy is basiaclly dead anyway, so who cares? Leave them at auto crit and let the barbarian clean up...no biggie.

The only 2 real downsides that I see are:

1) I feel wicked bad for those peolpe that traded their first born for a WOP rapier just to all of a sudden have it severely drop in value (not that I ever thought a WOP rapier was worth the difference compared to a dagger\SS)

2) Now there is absolutley no reason for me to get excited about popping a standard quest chest anymore. Since stat damagers are pretty much all the same (ie W\E = W\P=Mal\BB[Mobs tend to have lower dex, but lower crit range on blugeoning weps]) its basically grind for greensteel and raid loot. The only saving grace is +3 tomes dropping in standard quests...but within no time they are going to be just as prevelant as +2 tomes are now

/not signed 75%
/signed 25% (10% pity + 15% lack of excitment)

[Yaga_Nub]

What a bunch of whiny babies you "/signed" people are? This isn't the first nerf in the game and I'm sure it won't be the last. We've found ways around everything else and we'll find a way for this to work in our favor as well. Have a little faith in your playing skills. I mean Jesus Christ people, you act like equipment is the only way to complete a quest but I'd take a group of 8 SKILLED players with basic +5 equipment into the shroud before I'd take a group of 12 so-so players with raid equipment and special weapons like w/p. I guarantee the group of 8 players would complete the raid and that the group of 12 would only have about a 50% chance of completion.

Quit being babies!

I'm Yaga Nub and I don't approve of this thread!

[Morlen]

What a bunch of whiny babies you "/signed" people are?

Hehe, I think V has been the only /signed since the beginning...

/not signed

[Accelerando]

2) Now there is absolutley no reason for me to get excited about popping a standard quest chest anymore. Since stat damagers are pretty much all the same (ie W\E = W\P=Mal\BB[Mobs tend to have lower dex, but lower crit range on blugeoning weps]) its basically grind for greensteel and raid loot. The only saving grace is +3 tomes dropping in standard quests...but within no time they are going to be just as prevelant as +2 tomes are now


Not entirely true. Actually you can now get excited if you pull some nice bursting (holy, anarchic, axiomatic) of puncturing/enfeebling weapons, and not disappointed that the first word wasn't wounding.

[Slink]

What Yaga said.

[ducetrae]

/not signed
this is how it is in pnp so whenever we can get closer to pnp dnd i am all for it

[Halbarad]

could someone tell us what they are doing to w/p? What I have gathered from reading is that mobs with 0 con are still alive. Is that all?

[Andrewii]

not signed/

[Monkey_Archer]

Is it just me or did a crippling strike/dual woe rogue just become every1's favorite character for the high hp/deathwarded mobs?

[Slink]

reducing con to 0 will leave them stunned for a short period of time followed by ability to autocrit.

Similar to what happens to a beholder with weaken/enfeebling except now they will be stunned when the stat being attacked reaches 0.

[Raelg14]

/not signed..

I'll still use my WOP to drop their HP to next to nothing, then have a Burst weapon in my off-hand to finish the job. It should only take an extra swing or two to finish most mobs off. I really don't see what the big deal is.

Guess I can break out my Shocking Burst Heavy Pick of Maiming, that should go well in my Rangers off Hand :)

[jmonty]

youre just a perfect example of the "have nots"

damned vulgar plebs ruining your game, are they?

lol

[rimble]

even though, i think that having 0 con should = death from a logical standpoint, i think that sometimes the game needs to be balanced

the forthcoming changes are an example of such balancing

/not signed

This.

It's an interesting angle of attack to defend it as the last bastion of good random loot...but then we don't know what/if new random loot will be in Mod 9 either...so it's an uninformed argument.

/nosignee

[Quanefel]

could someone tell us what they are doing to w/p? What I have gathered from reading is that mobs with 0 con are still alive. Is that all?

Actually they are not really doing anything directly to w/p. It is across the board for all stat damaging that is actually in our favor as well. Here:

Ability damage now regenerates at a rate of 1 point of each ability score per minute.
Negative levels fade at a rate of 1 per 2 minutes.
Being reduced to 0 constitution will no longer kill players or monsters. They will be stunned for a short period of time and then behave as if they had been reduced to 0 in any other ability score. (Automatic criticals, etc.) This change applies to all ability scores - for example, Shadows will no longer kill you if your strength is reduced to 0, though you will continue to spawn a shadow if you die while under the effects of their touch.
Red named bosses can now be affected by up to 10 points of ability damage in each ability score, this cannot drop them below 1 in an ability score.

The changes effect monsters and players. Now we can stat damage Red named bosses. I am seeing alot of positive changes and not many negative changes as some people make it out to be.

[Hendrik]

/signed all those who didnt sign dont have WoP. Why not nerf vorpals? The answer is obvious.

I have 3, Rapier, Dagger and Bow.

/NOT SIGNED

All stat damage weapons are now on even footing.

Balance - sometimes it it works with you sometime it works against you. Roll with it or not. Your choice. Instead of taking such an alarmist approach, why not test it out in person.

The few seconds it will take to kill something THAT big of deal that people feel the need to quit? If it is, well, safe travels and good luck.

[~Zaknafeinx]

Osirisisisisisisisisisisissi these posts are getting OLD and Boring.

Just because all the characters in YOUR roster are w/p based and/or need w/p to "shine" doesnt mean that 90% of the rest of the games population are going to agree with your logical fallacies, spread out throughout the forums thanks to CTRL+C & CTRL+V.


/hug

[Hendrik]

could someone tell us what they are doing to w/p? What I have gathered from reading is that mobs with 0 con are still alive. Is that all?

Yes. The notes read to me as if ANY stat that reaches 0 will put the MOB into a stun state - giving autocrits.


MOB's and players now also have a slow regen feature for stat damage.

[Nick_RC]

/signed all those who didnt sign dont have WoP. Why not nerf vorpals? The answer is obvious.

/not signed.

**** wop. ou know for **** sure i have 2 wop rapiers on groan. Recently I specced into khopeshes over picks becaus eof the FB change. Havent used them for quite a while. I like playing with my guildies who choose to use a Greataxe. DPS stacks and everyone can contribute. If its going to take you 60 minues to run sorjek now then ALL of the people you played with made trash mob killers. It takes us maybe 2-3 more minutes tops using dps in that quest.

Oh and you should really cultivate your casters - I know you guys have disdain for them. Get one caster that knows what they are doing and you'll only fight a handful of alert mobs in that quest.

N

[Cashiry]

/signed all those who didnt sign dont have WoP. Why not nerf vorpals? The answer is obvious.

/not signed

I have 3 WoP Rapiers...

[TechNoFear]

/not signed

[Fenrisulven6]

lol I guess you cant keep up.

"v is blocked"

"v is out of range"

"v is blocked"

"your party member v has died"


/not signed

[Oblongmana]

Because a clamour of voices can always use one more

/Not signed

[Halbarad]

Actually they are not really doing anything directly to w/p. It is across the board for all stat damaging that is actually in our favor as well. Here:

Ability damage now regenerates at a rate of 1 point of each ability score per minute.
Negative levels fade at a rate of 1 per 2 minutes.
Being reduced to 0 constitution will no longer kill players or monsters. They will be stunned for a short period of time and then behave as if they had been reduced to 0 in any other ability score. (Automatic criticals, etc.) This change applies to all ability scores - for example, Shadows will no longer kill you if your strength is reduced to 0, though you will continue to spawn a shadow if you die while under the effects of their touch.
Red named bosses can now be affected by up to 10 points of ability damage in each ability score, this cannot drop them below 1 in an ability score.

The changes effect monsters and players. Now we can stat damage Red named bosses. I am seeing alot of positive changes and not many negative changes as some people make it out to be.

Thanks Q. I know I could have read the release notes, but your explanation is much appreciated. I have two rangers that switch off between stat damage and dps and I think that this change is good.

/not signed

[Slink]

There is one thing I am wondering if they will change though.
Paralyzers used to also give ability to auto critical. I wonder if they plan to implement this back into the game at some point?

[osirisisis]

and your monthly fee is the same as theirs. If one of them leaves they have lost the same as if you leave. I like who your sub is worth more than theirs

First of all I proven I enjoy the game enough to play and pay for 3 years make my subscription having a higher probability of becoming a game life time subscription then the average come, wine, and go subscription. To add I've in total paid more supporting turbine more so then the average subscription. So does loyalty and history mean more to a business when there putting value on a client? Any successful business owner will tell you it does...

[szalkerous]

It must be coincidental that all the signed posts come from Argonnessen.

/not signed

Bottom line: If you're that good of a player, you'll work around it.

[The_Phenx]

----Posting this in every WOP thread I can find----

My take on it is...

Im not sure that constitution = blood in a classic sense (in the dev's mind or in my mind) ... otherwise you would actually have to hang the monster upside down and chop off its head and salt the wound to draw every last bit of blood out of the body to reach 0 con.

Puncturing a body NOW creates a lot of pointy holes in various arteries so that you loose so much blood that you fall over and pass out... Leaving you unable to move or defend yourself.

This also drastically lowers the monsters hit points, and the the bad guy becomes seriously retardedly easy to kill.

Me for one I will be happy to have any rouge or twf build with WOP's to diasble the trash mobs in my quests. In fact I see holy burst of puncturing weapons becoming very popular, and I know I will be using my Wounding Enfeebling Kopeshs a LOT more and assuredly putting the force crit ritual on them.

Is it a nerf? I don't think so at all...the mobs will still be disabled just as quickly as they used to be killed... and will drop only secconds later then they used to, but NOW it takes dps to finish them off.

Some other folks are talking about W/E being better, it will still bring a target to auto crit faster in the hands of a rouge... BUT... it will not stun them like WOP will... which in my eyes still leaves the WOP rapier king of the crop for rouges.

[Nick_RC]

It must be coincidental that all the signed posts come from Argonnessen.

/not signed

Bottom line: If you're that good of a player, you'll work around it.

Most of my characters on argo and im probably one of the biggest wop haters out there. And yes i have 2 rapiers. And yes this thread is most definately /not signed.

[oogly54]

What do all think this nerf is going to do? What good does it bring? "This makes the ways a melee can kill a mob more diverse?" WRONG!! All this does is shift from using CON damge to kill mobs to using vorpals to kill mobs. The red names do not change one bit. This is all about the trash mobs. So you vorpal them OR the DEVs force us to use DPS by giving blacket immunities which we all hate.(free/permantate deathward is pure stupidity, at least let us remove it)

This nerf does not help us DPS more. This nerf calls out exactly TWO options for killing mobs, Vorpal, or DPS when you have a blanket immunity. Good call!

[dameron]

Not signed.

This was a long time coming.

However it does make WoP immediately the least effective of the double stat damaging weapon combinations.

Weaking of Enfeelbing reduces mobs to hit and damage while they're being attacked.

Maladroit of Bone Breaking reduces their AC (and may be quicker than WoP and WoE even with the 19-20 on crit of an improved critical bludgeon bone breaker since many mobs have poor Dex) while they're being attacked.

WoP doesn't really impact a mob's combat ability until it's stunned and ready to die anyway.

My money is on Weakening of Enfeebling since mitigating damage will be key as it will now take longer to actually kill the mobs. Also Holy Burst Kopeshes of Enfeebling are looking pretty nice too if you're not interested in changing weapons a lot. Also Cursespewing of Enfeebling and Paralyzing of Enfeebling are looking a lot better today than they were yesterday.

Since mobs weren't actually rendered helpless by reaching 0 in Dex or Str this is not just a huge nerf for WoP it's a huge buff for WoE and MoB if suddenly they really are helpless at 0 Dex or Str.

[RazorrX]

the change is not a bad change, so not signed.

[Aspenor]

/signed

it was a completely pointless waste of development time that could have been better spent on something important...like...FIXING HANDWRAPS.

[Kadran]

/signed all those who didnt sign dont have WoP. Why not nerf vorpals? The answer is obvious.


youre just a perfect example of the "have nots"

You keep posting this bologna everywhere, so I have to call you out on it. You're not the only person with a WoP. Get over yourself dude. I have 3 WoPs. A Rapier, a Heavy Repeater, and a Heavy Pick.

And they did nerf Vorpals. They used to proc on any crit. Now they are on natural 20 only. It helps to know what you're talking about. >.<

[Kadran]

/signed

it was a completely pointless waste of development time that could have been better spent on something important...like...FIXING HANDWRAPS.

No it couldn't. You'd have been happy with the handwraps for less than a month, I promise you. Then you'd have rerolled your Monk into a TWFer to use WoPs. Now when they do fix handwraps, you might actually appreciate them.

[Aspenor]

No it couldn't. You'd have been happy with the handwraps for less than a month, I promise you. Then you'd have rerolled your Monk into a TWFer to use WoPs.

No, I wouldn't, because I already have one. Nice attempt to troll.

[Zenako]

/qft

Str damaging rogues anyone? :)

yup, dual wield w/e attacks with the rogue enhancement/feat (Crippling Strike)as well. Within a few blows they are taking autocrits (which includes sneak attack damage...). Target acquired = target dead in seconds.

Really it will depend on how the various stats on the mobs stack up to determine which mode will reign supreme. STR vs CON vs DEX. I am pretty darn sure that most of the mobs have bleep for DEX, which will bring those Maladroit options into play now. The fact that they were blunt turned off many users due to the low crit proc chances.

oh and
/not signed and yes I have w/p in many forms on multiple characters, as well as w/e for when that is the superior option.

[uhgungawa]

First of all I proven I enjoy the game enough to play and pay for 3 years make my subscription having a higher probability of becoming a game life time subscription then the average come, wine, and go subscription. To add I've in total paid more supporting turbine more so then the average subscription. So does loyalty and history mean more to a business when there putting value on a client? Any successful business owner will tell you it does...


So I've been here for 3 years as well.

You are no more important as the next guy.

Your "It has to be my way or it's no good" attitude is Hogwash

I've got more WoPs than you can shake a stick at and still thinks the down grade is a good thing.

If you leave the game cause it's not what you want. People WILL just forget you.

You're "value" to the game is $10 per month, nothing more. Get over yourself


But then again just my thoughts :rolleyes:

[Accelerando]

You keep posting this bologna everywhere, so I have to call you out on it. You're not the only person with a WoP. Get over yourself dude. I have 3 WoPs. A Rapier, a Heavy Repeater, and a Heavy Pick.

And they did nerf Vorpals. They used to proc on any crit. Now they are on natural 20 only. It helps to know what you're talking about. >.<

I love the super uber WoP users who have no idea of the history of this game. I am sure he is also unaware of the banishing nerf. These puppies used to proc on HIT. We had alot of fun grinding out south 3 end reward ransacks before they added in static rewards, and you could still diplo the questgiver to get a larger list.

This game has changed so much, they have changed many things, mechanics, weapon effects, mob AI, death penalty, Cloud Kill, Firewall, Hippy Pattern, PK, and now WoP and transmuting. So what? The game still remains the best combat oriented MMO out there. We love making new builds and running them through the same old quests again and again, knowing from experience how we should be doing, and how we are doing, matching up our builds expectations against reality. We will continue to enjoy this game as long as they keep the servers up. Some of us take breaks, some of us take sabbaticals, but we keep coming back.

Why? DDO simply fracking rules. So shut up, stop whining, and start figuring out what you think your next best strategy is for your killing machine twf blender ranger rogue monk or barb or pally or bard or pally rogue or pally ranger or fighter bard or bardbarian or battle wizard or battle cleric or ranger bard or bard rogue. I think you get my point.

This is one small bump in the road, no larger than any of the ones that came before it. Move on, enjoy yourself, its a game, or simply get out.

that is my 2cp

[branmakmuffin]

/totally unsigned, like, to the max


My money is on Weakening of Enfeebling since mitigating damage will be key as it will now take longer to actually kill the mobs. Also Holy Burst Kopeshes of Enfeebling are looking pretty nice too if you're not interested in changing weapons a lot. Also Cursespewing of Enfeebling and Paralyzing of Enfeebling are looking a lot better today than they were yesterday.
Come now, everyone knows that transmuting of pure good is the next wounding of puncturing (in terms of prices). ;)

[EddieB_TBC]

/not signed.

[Lerincho]

Unsigned

shouldn't be focused so much on one type of weapon that you feel it breaks all of them.

[smatt]

/not signed

No big deal.... The player base will adjust, WoP will still be useful... Just not the end all of everything, all the time ....

[Lorichie]

/not signed

R

[tc12]

didn't bother reading past the first page, but ....

/NOT signed

[pumagirl418]

/signed

not a huge fan of wop. yes i have a set.
setting a stat to 0 should be possible and should equal death. i don't play banana in pajama games, i play games were stuff dies. whats next the enemies get call 'uncle' so no one ever dies. so sick of pc and making games 'easy'

[Timjc86]

/signed

not a huge fan of wop. yes i have a set.
setting a stat to 0 should be possible and should equal death. i don't play banana in pajama games, i play games were stuff dies. whats next the enemies get call 'uncle' so no one ever dies. so sick of pc and making games 'easy'

And what do either of those things have to do with this conversation?

I hate to put it so bluntly, but I'm not seeing the link.

[Cap_Man]

/not signed

And yes for trash mobs I twf with a WoP SS/Seeker +10 of Puncturing. I also have transmuters and bursters of puncturing. I will still continue to use these plus my Weakening of Enfeebling rapier/ss set will get more use now.

But I would like to see better/new random loot drop. I think the OP does have a point in that regards, but keeping WoP as is, is not the answer to that problem.

[Trillea]

absolutely 100% and forever....

/not signed

[branmakmuffin]

And what do either of those things have to do with this conversation?

I hate to put it so bluntly, but I'm not seeing the link.
That's not very blunt.

On another closely related topic, perhaps it has come and gone (many times), but I'm looking for the "those of you not signing are just jealous 'cause you don't have one!" post.

[gfunk]

/signed

because:
a) nerfing w/p takes some of the excitement of opening a chest out of the game.. w/ps are now about as exciting as paralyzers, banishers, and disruptors which have largely lost their appeal.
b) removes some variety for killing.. now people will largely just rely more on vorpals, and dreamspitters.
c) air ele's are now more annoying then ever.
d) something not dying when it has zero health just seems inconsistant

[WeaselKing]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Agarwaen]

/signed

[branmakmuffin]

/signed

because:
a) nerfing w/p takes some of the excitement of opening a chest out of the game.. w/ps are now about as exciting as paralyzers, banishers, and disruptors which have largely lost their appeal.
Well now you can get excited about pulling a transmuting of pure good, or, as someone else opined, a weakening heavy pick of maiming! Are you saying the game lost much of its appeal when vorpals stopped being the shiz and WoPs took their place?


d) something not dying when it has zero health just seems inconsistant
I agree with d), but something not dying when it has zero STR, DEX, INT, WIS or CHA seems just as inconsistent.

[lord_of_rage]

Not signed/

My barbs and str rangers will still do just fine. Oh and my wops are the poor mans wops. Hvy picks. Yeah I see them still holding value.

[sda3]

/Not Signed....

[Katrina]

Don't care to read throught the thousands of posts regarding this (so forgive me if it's already been brought up) but here is another thought.


So now that creatures will not die from con damage, whoopeee!! This takes the 'easy-kill' button away from the wop builds, however it doesn't render these builds useless. Now instead of being the solo-kings(and queens) you are now part of the group.
You drop the stats of a monster down so that they become helpless and start taking auto-crits. Now mr. Barbarian with his massive maul of 'pound-your-skull-in' (it's one of the new named items they're all wispering about ;)) starts laying in for 200hp a shot.... mr. Sorcerer fires a disintigrate and lands 2k dmg.... ect.....

YAY teamwork!!


ohyah...

/not signed

[Lerincho]

If this change "Broke" your character, you weren't much help to your guild or party in the first place.

[Korlos]

If this change "Broke" your character, you weren't much help to your guild or party in the first place.


Just thought that deserved repeating.

oh, and

/not signed

[hmartyb]

Don't care to read throught the thousands of posts regarding this (so forgive me if it's already been brought up) but here is another thought.


So now that creatures will not die from con damage, whoopeee!! This takes the 'easy-kill' button away from the wop builds, however it doesn't render these builds useless. Now instead of being the solo-kings(and queens) you are now part of the group.
You drop the stats of a monster down so that they become helpless and start taking auto-crits. Now mr. Barbarian with his massive maul of 'pound-your-skull-in' (it's one of the new named items they're all wispering about ;)) starts laying in for 200hp a shot.... mr. Sorcerer fires a disintigrate and lands 2k dmg.... ect.....

YAY teamwork!!


ohyah...

/not signed

But, but he stole my kill!!

/not signed

[Raithe]

I only allow my characters to carry 5 melee weapons and a bow (with various other options involved for 2-handed weapons). On my ranger, he typically carries:

1) +2 Holyburst rapier of puncturing (mostly for the holyburst part)
2) +1 Seeker +10 rapier of enfeebling

...in hand, and...

3) +1 Weakening rapier of enfeebling
4) +1 Banishing shortsword of vertigo +2
5) +1 Ghost touch light pick of disruption

...and of course I would swap weapons out for DPS based on what I knew about a quest.

I'm sorry, but I don't see this change affecting any gameplay in a positive manner. I was already using weakening to a large degree, and my weapons are not likely to change in the coming Mod.

The effects that I think will happen are as follows:

1) Zerging is going to be more popular. Why bother killing something if its just going to be a snorefest?

2) Picks will become far more prevalent. I don't think people are understanding autocrit very well. Someone with picks will be doing 4 times normal damage while other people are doing 3 or less. It's a big difference. The only contender really is a Dreamspitter, and that is assuming it didn't get nerfed.

3) What's worse is that someone can "cheat" and not be doing anything useful with holyburst heavy picks of maiming, yet still get the closing damage for the kill, which might be all they care about. It has the potential of making quests sloppy, expensive exercises in frustration...

Someone needs to explain to me how this change is going to improve the game, especially those countless people with /unsigned below their names.

[Katrina]

The effects that I think will happen are as follows:

1) Zerging is going to be more popular. Why bother killing something if its just going to be a snorefest?

This is bad how? Zerging is viable play style. I invite more people to try it

2) Picks will become far more prevalent. I don't think people are understanding autocrit very well. Someone with picks will be doing 4 times normal damage while other people are doing 3 or less. It's a big difference. The only contender really is a Dreamspitter, and that is assuming it didn't get nerfed.

Good for the picks, they've been unappreciated for a while now (with the exclusion of deathnip). I'm not seeing how this is negative


3) What's worse is that someone can "cheat" and not be doing anything useful with holyburst heavy picks of maiming, yet still get the closing damage for the kill, which might be all they care about. It has the potential of making quests sloppy, expensive exercises in frustration...

If all one cares about is 'my kill count' then maybe one should look into a game that rewards individual accomplishment, not group effort like DDO does. I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say 'making quests sloppy' ??

Someone needs to explain to me how this change is going to improve the game, especially those countless people with /unsigned below their names.


You'll see more parties with more diversity. DPS Fighting is back in the game now!
You'll need to rely a bit more on skill and a bit less on gear
Consider this to be a bit more like Darwin's Evolution. We're weeding out the weak who rely only on w/p.

Above is my opinion (weak as it may be) in red

[Raithe]

Above is my opinion (weak as it may be) in red

Aye, it is weak.

1) DPS fighting has always been in the game. Most of the game is now red-named and purple-named. Much of the rest was undead that was immune to stat damage anyway. As someone in another thread noted (think it was Aspenor), some Devils and Orthons in the Subterrane already seem immune to con damage death and continue to hit hard even after weakened to autocrit. The Orthons in VoD are red-named. Should I keep going...?

2) Heavy picks are good pure DPS weapons. They tie with rapiers and scimitars for second place, not counting bursting effects. For mobs with DR but not immune to crits, picks may work better because more crit damage gets through. Having everyone wielding picks due to the chances of autocrit/stun does not create more diversity. It will create less.

As I've said before, the new wounding of puncturing is weakening heavy picks of maiming. The metagame isn't gone, I'm quite sure of that.

[iscifi]

/signed

Tired of hearing others tell me how I should play my game.

[Monkey_Archer]

The only downside i see to this is that greatswords, if they werent already obsolete now, they will be with all the auto crits.

[Raithe]

There is another downside that I forgot to mention. This will also affect casters.

1) Casters are already mostly haste and gh bots with current game design. This will cement their position as haste, gh, fog, and ray of enfeeblement bots. I envision sorcerors without ray of enfeeblement finding discrimination by the boatload.

2) Casters who used to rely on fort save spells will now not find the same level of melee aid they had before. Con damage always helped a group in a myriad of ways, but with this change melee are more inclined to use weakening, which reduces damage to themselves. Weakening does nothing for a caster's spells.

3) Both of the above items will be used by metagamers to pigeonhole casters into a support role even more than has already been achieved, as I've already alluded.

Yea? :confused:

[BlackSteel]

nty

/not signed

[Nonan]

/not signed

[branmakmuffin]

/signed

Tired of hearing others tell me how I should play my game.
I'm pretty sure it's my game as much as it is yours.

[MrCow]

Casters are already mostly haste and gh bots with current game design. This will cement their position as haste, gh, fog, and ray of enfeeblement bots. I envision sorcerors without ray of enfeeblement finding discrimination by the boatload.

Ray of Enfeeblement is, at best, 1d6 + 3 STR penalty (capped at level 5, average STR penalty of 6.5 STR). If lowering STR is the way of the future, then Waves of Exhaustion and the Staff of Arcane Power (which does 1d6 + 7 STR penalty) will be the desired things.

[noneill]

/not signed

[Ghoste]

/not signed

I've got w/p weapons too, but I personally think this has been a loonnnnnggg time coming.

[Raithe]

Ray of Enfeeblement is, at best, 1d6 + 3 STR penalty (capped at level 5, average STR penalty of 6.5 STR). If lowering STR is the way of the future, then Waves of Exhaustion and the Staff of Arcane Power (which does 1d6 + 7 STR penalty) will be the desired things.

So a minimum of 4 strength damage for 10 spell points?

That is probably 10% of the way to an autocrit...

[Monkey_Archer]

All stat damage will have its place...

Strength
-easiest to deal out fast (ie. rogues with crippling strike, and caster debuffs)
-reduces attack and damage
-deathwarded giants of sorjek and prey have very high str compared to dex or con though

Dexterity
-monks will be best in this regard
-reduces ac and reflex
-lots high hitpoint monsters (like giants) have relatively low dex
-crit range makes this hardest to deal out fast though

Constitution
-has the advantage of reducing hitpoints
-aided by cloudkill

[Soul-Shaker]

/Sign,
but I have no faith that doing so will change their mind after deciding a nerf. Since they haven't done so yet...

[Chaos000]

Anyone consider how they will be adjusting their tactics vs the air elementals?

if there's no death's by con damange then there goes cloudkill w/p and on top of that unless they fixed the auto trip that air elementals do they're going to be a major pain in the you know what considering how many hit points they've got.

Str Damage (Weakening/E) = lowers to-hit
Dex Damage (Maladroit/B) = lowers AC
Con Damage (Wounding/P) = lowers base % hp?

dunno. I wish they went a different way with this... if they just had it so all stats cannot be lowered below 1 then everybody benefits and can still continue to do actions in the same manner as monsters.

no more inability to drink potions, can still attack... etc.

[joker965]

Anyone consider how they will be adjusting their tactics vs the air elementals?

if there's no death's by con damange then there goes cloudkill w/p and on top of that unless they fixed the auto trip that air elementals do they're going to be a major pain in the you know what considering how many hit points they've got.

Str Damage (Weakening/E) = lowers to-hit
Dex Damage (Maladroit/B) = lowers AC
Con Damage (Wounding/P) = lowers base % hp?

dunno. I wish they went a different way with this... if they just had it so all stats cannot be lowered below 1 then everybody benefits and can still continue to do actions in the same manner as monsters.

no more inability to drink potions, can still attack... etc.

Destruction?
Finger?

Ohh... the casters are just supposed to buff and watch.

[Chaos000]

Destruction?
Finger?

Ohh... the casters are just supposed to buff and watch.

and if they have deathward on or are immune to mind affecting effects? then it gets a little annoying.

yay autocrits on something immune to crits/sneak attack but can *auto*knock you over even with a 0 str? :rolleyes:

p.s. casters can keep their buffs/heals to themselves unless they're feeling particularly generous. That's what potions/ UMD/ scrolls/ wands/ clickies/ resist-immunity items are for. Anyone too cheap to equip themselves properly don't deserve a single spell thrown their way.

[Junts]

good for you, I dont see why I need to fill my backback with 2 dozen weapon sets for every occasion. Post a SS of your toon with a WoP.


I'd be willing to wager my main is far, far better equipped than yours, and yes, I have a wop rapier .. and still ok with this.

[Souske]

/not signed....

STOP POSTING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER!

[FluffyCalico]

p.s. casters can keep their buffs/heals to themselves unless they're feeling particularly generous. That's what potions/ UMD/ scrolls/ wands/ clickies/ resist-immunity items are for. Anyone too cheap to equip themselves properly don't deserve a single spell thrown their way.

Anyone who has to spend resouces and plat on a normal run isn't near as great as they think. I pug all the time taking the first 4 that click the lfm and 99% of the time NO ONE in the group needs to use any resources.

NOTE: Useing a ton of resources doesn't make someone a good player. Haveing a ton of them just in case but not actually needing them is what makes someone a good player.

Resources are for elite or content the day of release. If someone needs resources on most runs they should really look at their build and the playstyle of those they run with as something is clearly wrong when the average pug doing the same quest doesn't need those resources to get the same thing done.

[Uska]

Not signed and while they are nerfing lets nerf greensteel it was a bad idea.

[FluffyCalico]

Not signed and while they are nerfing lets nerf greensteel it was a bad idea.

I vote for bluesteel in mod 10.

[Uska]

I vote for bluesteel in mod 10.

I vote for all mobs to have a caster casting disjunction every 5 seconds and you can have your blue,yellow or orange steel then:D

[branmakmuffin]

I'd be willing to wager my main is far, far better equipped than yours.
Since this is not AoC, how would you be able to tell?

[FluffyCalico]

I vote for all mobs to have a caster casting disjunction every 5 seconds and you can have your blue,yellow or orange steel then:D

Well with force of personality I will be ok :eek:

[branmakmuffin]

Well with force of personality I will be ok :eek:
May the force of personality be with you.

[cpito]

/signed

not a huge fan of wop. yes i have a set.
setting a stat to 0 should be possible and should equal death. i don't play banana in pajama games, i play games were stuff dies. whats next the enemies get call 'uncle' so no one ever dies. so sick of pc and making games 'easy'

huh? this makes no sense what-so-ever... you're not a big fan of wops and you're sick of making games "easy" yet you're signing something cuz they nerfed the "easy button". I'd say this doesn't make you a big fan of consistency either. This always has been and always will be a game where most stuff dies quickly.

Taking my WoP's and /not signing


ps where do we sign to get the op to stop spamming the forums with this ****? He's upset, we get it already

[FluffyCalico]

ps where do we sign to get the op to stop spamming the forums with this ****? He's upset, we get it already

He's not upset. Right after the change was public knowledge he bought every W/P on the ah because he assumed he could complain enough to get the nerf undone and make a profit.

[Uska]

Well with force of personality I will be ok :eek:

alrighty then your set:D