Clarification on Red Names Post Mod 9

[Ghoste]

From the release notes for Lamannia:

Red-named bosses can now be affected by ability damage. They can take up to 10 points of damage to each ability score, and this damage cannot reduce their ability scores below 1.
By this do you mean that red named bosses can now be affected by weapon-based-permanent ability damage?

That 10 points of ability damage that they can take - does that mean that if you roll an 18 on symbol of weakness, they still only take 10 points of damage?

Will it now be pointless to cast multiple strength debuffs on bosses? Or any at all if a fighter is using a weakening weapon?

As far as strength sapping, will that weapon affect no longer apply if it goes past the -10 mark?

In summary, what I'm asking is did you get the wording right and mean what is stated there? Or were you trying to explain a change made with weapons and a few permanent spell effects (like cloudkill or contagion), but forgot all about the temporary strength reducing spells and effects that already work on red and purple names?

[vtecfiend99]

I wondered the same thing.

[stockwizard5]

Same here - nerf or boost?

[BigBadBarry]

Agree - clarification required.

Currently Red Named (and purples) are affected by ability draining effects such as exhaustion - but not affected by ability score "damage".

If they are now affected by up to 10 points of "ability damage" will this stack with the draining effects of other spells?

eg Rad Named Kobold in Enter the Kobold

Wizard debuffs with Ray of enfeeblement and Waves of Exhaustion reducing the STR of the kobold by say 12. (These are no currently ability "damage" so do work)

If a melee type then uses a Weakening Weapon 10 times will an "additional" 10 points of STR "damage" take it to -22 STR??

[Ghoste]

Well? A few threads asking for clarification on this, but not a peep. All the attention seems to be going to the more angry sounding threads.

Is it really a wise policy to feed the trolls and ignore those who ask politely? Do I need to become a squeaky wheel? Dear devs, if I feel I need to get your attention, I'll get it.

For now though, I will continue to wait patiently.

In the meantime, here is a little recommended for those attempting to control the flames on these forums: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback

In particular, I would ask you to consider the following:
# 1 - the feedback signal increases, leading to more modification. This is known as positive feedback.
# 2 - the feedback signal decreases, leading to less modification. This is known as negative feedback.When all your attention is focussed on those making all the noise, even though we all know what you're trying to accomplish, what are you really accomplishing?

PS. I know you've seen this thread and read it, since you moved it from the general discussion thread. What's the matter? A player behaving himself and asking politely wasn't worth your attention?

[Spisey]

**This Thread is Squeaky Wheel Approved**

This question does deserve a response....

So....many....vague....responses.... :(

[SableShadow]

Agree with Ghoste here; it's a pretty straightforward question, and easily one of the more important ones about the release notes.

Got a whole bag of Llamas right here... :D

[Aesop]

Now don't quote me on this... but


Ray of Enfeeblement is a Strength Penalty not damage so it should apply

Ray of Exhaustion adds a Condition (exhausted) so it should apply

however regarless of how much they take they can never be dropped below 1

Ray already has that built into it... I'm not sure about Exhaustion... someone make a 6 str halfling and test it out



In theory then you can do upto 10 points of STR Damage + Exhaustion(-6) + Strength Penalty as long as it doesn't take the critter below 1

Aesop

[Ghoste]

Now don't quote me on this... but


Ray of Enfeeblement is a Strength Penalty not damage so it should apply

Ray of Exhaustion adds a Condition (exhausted) so it should apply

however regarless of how much they take they can never be dropped below 1

Ray already has that built into it... I'm not sure about Exhaustion... someone make a 6 str halfling and test it out



In theory then you can do upto 10 points of STR Damage + Exhaustion(-6) + Strength Penalty as long as it doesn't take the critter below 1

AesopI do this all the time in subterrane. Ray of enf + waves of exhaustion = no save and helpless beholder.

[Eladrin]

By this do you mean that red named bosses can now be affected by weapon-based-permanent ability damage?
That is the case.


That 10 points of ability damage that they can take - does that mean that if you roll an 18 on symbol of weakness, they still only take 10 points of damage?
Symbol of Weakness is not ability damage, it is thus unaffected by this change.

Basically, you can now lower a red name's ability scores by 10 additional points than you could before, but ability damage cannot bring its ability scores below 1.


PS. I know you've seen this thread and read it, since you moved it from the general discussion thread. What's the matter? A player behaving himself and asking politely wasn't worth your attention?
That would be because the people that move things around aren't the same people that answer questions like these, but were helping you out by putting it someplace where it'd be more likely to receive a response. Actually, politely worded questions are much more likely to be responded to than threads filled with vitriol or mad bumping.

[Aesop]

That is the case.


Symbol of Weakness is not ability damage, it is thus unaffected by this change.

Basically, you can now lower a red name's ability scores by 10 additional points than you could before, but ability damage cannot bring its ability scores below 1.

.


What about Exhaustion (by Ray or Waves)?

Aesop

[Eladrin]

Everything should operate exactly as it did before, except that you can get an additional up-to-ten points of ability damage on top of that. Some of that up-to-ten ability damage might go away if you add some type of additional penalty on top of it, if that penalty would brings its ability score below 1.

[Aesop]

Everything should operate exactly as it did before, except that you can get an additional up-to-ten points of ability damage on top of that. Some of that up-to-ten ability damage might go away if you add some type of additional penalty on top of it, if that penalty would brings its ability score below 1.

Bon Bon. Thank you Eladrin

Aesop

[Vivanto]

Neat, we could already reduce str scores quite a bit with spells, now almost double that with woe and bosses can't hit a barn (or if they do it's just a tickle) :)

Does it also affect purple raid bosses or just regular red nameds?

[SableShadow]

Everything should operate exactly as it did before, except that you can get an additional up-to-ten points of ability damage on top of that. Some of that up-to-ten ability damage might go away if you add some type of additional penalty on top of it, if that penalty would brings its ability score below 1.

w00t! Thanks, Eladrin! :)

Have a Llama!

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo230/theluckyjosh/mod%209/welcome_llama.jpg?t=1239144888

[MrCow]

I would have gladly waited for Lamannia to see how this played out, but now I can gladly go make sure it is working as intended when Lamannia comes out. :D

[moorewr]

Actually, politely worded questions are much more likely to be responded to than threads filled with vitriol or mad bumping.

Vitriol or mad bumping? those both sound exciting!!! :cool:

[PhoenixFire31]

Neat, we could already reduce str scores quite a bit with spells, now almost double that with woe and bosses can't hit a barn (or if they do it's just a tickle) :)

Does it also affect purple raid bosses or just regular red nameds?

The notes said Red Named so I am betting NO on purples.

[Impaqt]

The notes said Red Named so I am betting NO on purples.


So if I change my UI options so that "Purple Named" bosses show up as "Red" will it then work?

[MrCow]

So if I change my UI options so that "Purple Named" bosses show up as "Red" will it then work?

You don't change everything to have orange names? You are behind the times. :p

[PhoenixFire31]

So if I change my UI options so that "Purple Named" bosses show up as "Red" will it then work?

You are such a brat :p

[Vivanto]

The notes said Red Named so I am betting NO on purples.

Mehh, then it's as much of a nerf as a boost.
Currently I can get some squishy red names to 0 strenght, thus helpless. Even more useful since that mostly worked on caster red-nameds and casting does indeed stop when being helpless.

Now they stop at 1 str instead...

[SableShadow]

You don't change everything to have orange names? You are behind the times. :p

MrCow iz t3h l33t haxxorz!!!!! :D

[Junts]

That is the case.


Symbol of Weakness is not ability damage, it is thus unaffected by this change.

Basically, you can now lower a red name's ability scores by 10 additional points than you could before, but ability damage cannot bring its ability scores below 1.


That would be because the people that move things around aren't the same people that answer questions like these, but were helping you out by putting it someplace where it'd be more likely to receive a response. Actually, politely worded questions are much more likely to be responded to than threads filled with vitriol or mad bumping.


El, thanks for the answers, I've seen a bunch todya to similar questions (including a few of mine).

[MrCow]

Mehh, then it's as much of a nerf as a boost.
Currently I can get some squishy red names to 0 strenght, thus helpless. Even more useful since that mostly worked on caster red-nameds and casting does indeed stop when being helpless.

Now they stop at 1 str instead...

From how Eladrin wrote it appears that 0 STR red named monsters is still possible. The up-to-10 STR damage, however, can not contribute to crossing the threshold from 1 STR to 0 STR, much like INT damage and Feebleminded.

If you encounter Groktin the Elder Beholder (10 STR) and you Exhaust him and Strength Sapping him (-12 STR) he will be helpless. However, if you instead do 8 STR damage via weaponry and Fatigue him he will be at 1 STR, as only 7 of those 8 points of STR damage will be allowed to work on him.

[Solo-Soul-Shaker]

Everything should operate exactly as it did before, except that you can get an additional up-to-ten points of ability damage on top of that. Some of that up-to-ten ability damage might go away if you add some type of additional penalty on top of it, if that penalty would brings its ability score below 1.

Does this mean that say example I did -30 str from spells and the mob only had 20, then someone hits it with a weak/enfeeb weapon. Does that mean the mob now has 1 str instead of 0?

[binnsr]

Mehh, then it's as much of a nerf as a boost.
Currently I can get some squishy red names to 0 strenght, thus helpless. Even more useful since that mostly worked on caster red-nameds and casting does indeed stop when being helpless.

Now they stop at 1 str instead...

Didn't you know? This mod's official title is 'Way of the Nerf'

[SableShadow]

Didn't you know? This mod's official title is 'Way of the Nerf'

*shrug*

Mods blow one way, then another. Such is the nature of mods.

http://www.ezvane.com/vanes/Llama%20or%20Alpaca.jpg

[binnsr]

*shrug*

Mods blow one way, then another. Such is the nature of mods.

http://www.ezvane.com/vanes/Llama%20or%20Alpaca.jpg

yeah .. i know .. the sarcasm was lost because I forgot a smiley :)

[Ghoste]

Thank you Eladrin for the answer.

I don't use w/p weapons very often, and the other things I'm reading seem pretty good. I'm looking forward to this Mod a lot now. I was a little sad to see no Bladesworn level III yet, but I guess that's coming?

I just recently began levelling up a barb, pally, sorc, and rogue (all warforged, of course) and I can tell I'm going to enjoy figuring them out with all the new stuff to play with.

I was really trying not to make my second post sound like I was threatening. More of an expression of frustration at seeing how people behaving in a clearly "trollish" way seem to be getting all the attention, and how that seems to be bearing fruit counter to your intentions. Maybe you guys could do what you tell us to do when things get a bit heated and put their names on your ignore list. It's worked wonders for me.

[SableShadow]

I can tell I'm going to enjoy figuring them out with all the new stuff to play with.

w00t! Same same! New toys are always fun. :)






































































What? No, I don't have a Llama for that.

[Dark-Star]

How will Feeblemind work? Will it take the stats down 10 points only or not work at all since it would leave them at 1 usually?

[MrCow]

How will Feeblemind work? Will it take the stats down 10 points only or not work at all since it would leave them at 1 usually?

Feebleminded and Touch of Idiocy don't work on red named monsters.

[Aesop]

Feebleminded and Touch of Idiocy don't work on red named monsters.

Which is really disappointing honestly

[Hendrik]

So if I change my UI options so that "Purple Named" bosses show up as "Red" will it then work?

I like the way you think and where can I subscribe to your newsletter...

[smatt]

w00t! Thanks, Eladrin! :)

Have A Llama!

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo230/theluckyjosh/mod%209/welcome_llama.jpg?t=1239144888


Lol...

[Hendrik]

So if I change my UI options so that "Purple Named" bosses show up as "Red" will it then work?

Post of the day!

:)


/hi5

[SableShadow]

yeah .. i know .. the sarcasm was lost because I forgot a smiley :)

Nah, just looking for an excuse to post another Llama. Have to stay relevant, and all that. :D

[Riggs]

That would be because the people that move things around aren't the same people that answer questions like these, but were helping you out by putting it someplace where it'd be more likely to receive a response. Actually, politely worded questions are much more likely to be responded to than threads filled with vitriol or mad bumping.

As Ghoste said, while a politely worded thread is more likely to get a informative or meaningful response, I have observed as well that trolls, whiners, and people that basically go ballistic on the forums will often get some kind of response within hours....

..while politely worded threads, outside of a few well known posters that seem to get more responses, will often get completely ignored.
or if it is read, it is not responded too, so no one actually knows if it was 'received'.

Like children that have a tantrum and get attention....because these people keep getting Turbine responses...people keep doing it.

[smatt]

As Ghoste said, while a politely worded thread is more likely to get a informative or meaningful response, I have observed as well that trolls, whiners, and people that basically go ballistic on the forums will often get some kind of response within hours....

..while politely worded threads, outside of a few well known posters that seem to get more responses, will often get completely ignored.
or if it is read, it is not responded too, so no one actually knows if it was 'received'.

Like children that have a tantrum and get attention....because these people keep getting Turbine responses...people keep doing it.


The bolded group above gets treated like a bunch of spoon fed little baby birds.... They cause far more problems and in the end chase away far more players (IE: Income) from this game than they provide for the game themselves.

[sephiroth1084]

I'd rather they made red names susceptible to trip, stun, etc...

[sda3]

So if I change my UI options so that "Purple Named" bosses show up as "Red" will it then work?

That one got me to chuckle, nice post.