GH & Good Hope

[Melmoth]

Quick question:

Is there any reason to hang on to Good Hope after your bard picks up Greater Heroism? As far as I can tell, GH does everything Good Hope does but +4 instead of +2, except for the +damage, which is a morale boost so it won't stack with the (higher) +damage from my Inspire Courage song.

Is there something I'm missing or can I safely swap Good Hope out for another spell?

[MrCow]

Is there any reason to hang on to Good Hope after your bard picks up Greater Heroism?

Good Hope counters Crushing Despair and Good Hope is a mass buff (depending on how lazy you are or how fast the group really wants to just motor through).

[miceelf88]

Good Hope also provides a bonus to damage that GH doesn't. It also counters crushing despair.

Small potatoes, I know.

I have it loaded on capped bard, but rarely use it.

But, then, what would I replace it with? I'm a buffer, so the charm and fear stuff are pointless, and after haste and displacement, and (arguably) curre mod, the pickings for bard at level 3 are pretty slim.

[Melmoth]

Thanks for the info. Since I'm un-lazy and my bard is a caster, I think I'll be ditching Good Hope.

I'll probably take the charm (I'm assuming it works on humanoids as well just like Hold Monster also works on targets Hold Person works on), but is there anyone who finds a good reason to have Fear on a bard when we've already got Fascinate/Dancing Sphere/Hypnotism for AoE CC?

[Kadran]

Thanks for the info. Since I'm un-lazy and my bard is a caster, I think I'll be ditching Good Hope.

I'll probably take the charm (I'm assuming it works on humanoids as well just like Hold Monster also works on targets Hold Person works on), but is there anyone who finds a good reason to have Fear on a bard when we've already got Fascinate/Dancing Sphere/Hypnotism for AoE CC?

This won't matter after mod 9, but Fear is a great spell in Offering of Blood. Other CC spells make the mobs stand around in your way. Fear makes them run away, leaving the halls and levers free for your use.

[Freeman]

Good Hope can be cast on an entire party in about two seconds, versus over a minute to hit everyone with Greater Heroism. Extended, it cost 30 sp, versus 480 sp to hit everyone with Greater Heroism. Since your songs override the attack and damage bonuses, you are taking that extra time and 450sp in order to give everyone +2 to skills and saves and fear immunity.(If they get the Inspire Heroics song, then they don't even get the save bonus) Unless they need the fear immunity, tell them to take the Good Hope and suck it up.

[Aranticus]

good hope also has a +2 to ability checks but not greater hero

[Tuney]

"Ability checks" I think was cut from the spells end result. As Abilties = stats and we all know good hope doesn't give +2 to your stats hehe.

But all and all I still keep good hope for the reasons of one cast to hit everyone with no fuss or huss, and countering Crushing Dispair.

I feel there aren't that many good spells at level 3 for a bard. My current line up is Fear , Haste , Good hope , Displacement.

[Aranticus]

"Ability checks" I think was cut from the spells end result. As Abilties = stats and we all know good hope doesn't give +2 to your stats hehe.

But all and all I still keep good hope for the reasons of one cast to hit everyone with no fuss or huss, and countering Crushing Dispair.

I feel there aren't that many good spells at level 3 for a bard. My current line up is Fear , Haste , Good hope , Displacement.

yes good hope doesnt give +2 to your ability scores (ie str, dex, etc) but it helps with your ability checks

when web is cast on you, you have to make a reflex save to avoid getting stuck in the web (GH give +4, hope give +2). if you somehow fail the save, you are stuck in the web. to get out of the web you need to make a successful strength check (GH give nothing, hope give +2)

ability check =/= ability score =/= skill check

[Freeman]

yes good hope doesnt give +2 to your ability scores (ie str, dex, etc) but it helps with your ability checks

when web is cast on you, you have to make a reflex save to avoid getting stuck in the web (GH give +4, hope give +2). if you somehow fail the save, you are stuck in the web. to get out of the web you need to make a successful strength check (GH give nothing, hope give +2)

ability check =/= ability score =/= skill check

I didn't think that Good Hope was actually giving a bonus to ability checks in DDO, even though it should. Although it has been in the description in the beginning, I've never actually seen the bonus on any of my checks. There are only a few circumstances where it could be tested, such as Web, breaking a few doors, etc, so it is possible it was added at some point and I missed it.

[Junts]

This won't matter after mod 9, but Fear is a great spell in Offering of Blood. Other CC spells make the mobs stand around in your way. Fear makes them run away, leaving the halls and levers free for your use.

mass suggestion is the answer here.

[Melmoth]

Good Hope can be cast on an entire party in about two seconds, versus over a minute to hit everyone with Greater Heroism. Extended, it cost 30 sp, versus 480 sp to hit everyone with Greater Heroism. Since your songs override the attack and damage bonuses, you are taking that extra time and 450sp in order to give everyone +2 to skills and saves and fear immunity.(If they get the Inspire Heroics song, then they don't even get the save bonus) Unless they need the fear immunity, tell them to take the Good Hope and suck it up.

Well, tbh in most dungeons I don't extend buffs now except for Rage, Haste, and Displacement because the others last more than long enough to make it to the next shrine, but...

I really wasn't thinking about 12 man raid parties though, which is a good reason to keep Good Hope. I'm not GHing 12 people, to hell with that; I've got better stuff to do with my sp. Oh well, so much for Charm Monster I guess.