Roq Star, a pure 2wf battlebard for mod 9 and beyond

[Anthios888]

I wanted a melee. I ended up with this bard build.

Roq Star, pure human battlebard on Ghallanda (http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/roq/)

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9863/roq2.jpg

This is a pure bard. Why pure? Multiclassing gives some major bonuses to melee-focused bards, especially at the beginning and end of life. That's why nearly everyone does it on melee bard builds.

But not me. In this build, I tried to pare the warchanter down to the basics. I lost out on extend spell (meh) and overwhelming critical (ouch), but possess the best possible bard melee buffs (+12 damage). There is nothing like joining a raid full of melees and watching the DPS spike up for the party overall. Objectively, I would probably tell someone else to splash for overwhelming critical today because bard buffs are weaker than ever relative to the other bonuses around. But I'm holding out for Warchanter III before I change the build significantly.

Three and a half years later, I play this build in epic elites and it remains one of my favorites. I love bards, even if they need help as a class.

Starting Ability Scores

Got +3 or +4 tomes? Start with less DEX, as long as you can hit 17 DEX with whatever tomes you do have, so that you can take improved and greater two weapon fighting

32 point build


STR 16
DEX 15 + 2 tome
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 12


My current stats in Fatesinger

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6258/roqstats.jpg

Feat Selection


Level 1: Power attack
Level 1 (Human bonus feat): Toughness
Level 3: Weapon focus: Slashing (Warchanter I Pre-requisite)
Level 6: Two weapon fighting
Level 9: Exotic weapon proficiency: Khopesh
Level 12: Improved critical: slashing
Level 15: Improved two weapon fighting
Level 18: Greater two weapon fighting
Level 21: Inspire excellence
Level 24: Quicken spell


Hit Points



20 Base
120 Bard levels
50 epic levels
375 Constitution modifier (42 CON)
10 Agents or Argonessen favor
27 Toughness feat
30 Toughness Enhancements
30 Greater False Life
20 Toughness
10 Warchanter II
10 Echoes of the Ancestors: Legendary Dreadnought
45 Greensteel HP item
20 Large Guild Augment
767 HP without Essence of Desire yugoloth potion


Healing Amplification
I really love healing amplification at endgame on this character, and I try to keep it as high as possible (currently 223%). Even without metamagics, my own cure critical hits for over 300, and heal scrolls hit for 438. Vampirism from an item like Epic Chaosblades heal 900-1000 HP per minute.



1.3 human improved recovery III enhancement
1.2 tower of despair convalescence
1.3 epic gloves of the claw greater convalescence
1.1 airship
223% healing amplification


Crowd Control

Fascinate, Siren's Song, and Irresistible dance are the only crowd control. Use weapon effects like earthgrab to make monsters helpless and vulnerable.

Alternate Races and Fighting Style

Half-elf with Rogue Dilletante (3d6 sneak damage) would work great if you skip Quicken Spell or wield piercing weapons (such as Balizarde and Celestia from Caught in the Web). For a two-handed build, half orc with cleaves and epic sword of shadow would rule the world.

Playstyle & Tips

Buff a lot. It's why you came into the world with mana. Keep haste (available from scroll at level 3 and spell from level 7), rage, displacement, and stoneskin (wands at level 7) on self at all times (and party whenever possible).

You have no evasion, but you don't need to let it get the best of you. Carry resist 11 wands, mass protection from elements scrolls, and fireshield scrolls at all times and use liberally.

Shopping List: Consumables I carry on a bard

Healing
Greater Ardor potions (House P Object Desire)
Mass Protection from Elements scrolls (Portable Hole)
Heal scrolls, Mass Cure Moderate scrolls, and cure critical wands (Guild vendor)
Stone to Flesh scrolls or wand (House J)
Lesser restoration potions (unbound) (Most general vendors)
Remove Curse potions (unbound) (House J or most general vendors)
Restoration/Greater restoration Scrolls (Guild vendor or House J)
Raise dead/resurrection scrolls (Guild vendor, House J)

Self-buffs
Tenser's Transformation scrolls (Portable Hole, House P Object Desire)
Essence of Desire and Fury (CON and STR yugoloth potions)
Shield wand
Oil of Incandescence (Mabar festival, 1d6 damage on your weapons for 1 hour)
Fireshield scrolls (Guild, Portable Hole)

Party buffs
Greater Heroism scrolls (Portable Hole, House P)
Resist Energy (Level 11) wands (random drop)
Elemental Weapons scrolls (House C)
Adamantine Weapons scrolls (House C)
Enchant weapons and Enchant Armor scrolls (House C)
Byeshk Weapons scrolls (House C)

Utility
Teleport and Greater Teleport scrolls (Portable Hole)
Shadow Walk scrolls (Portable Hole)
Mass invisibility scrolls (Portable Hole)

Offense
Prismatic Ray (instakill that pillar!) (Portable Hole)
Summon Monster VIII scrolls (air elemental - cannot buy in stores)
Cloudkill scrolls (cannot buy in stores)


Equipment

This equipment reflects a player who raids, runs epics, and optimizes at every corner. That might not be you, but don't run away! Remember when reading my builds that the character will do its purpose just fine without uberloot, because my philosophy of characters is that they grow over time with love and practice. It is smart to make sure a build is planned so that you do not end up pulling something nice that you locked yourself out of. Being human or half elf helps when you are starting out, because with human versatility, you can adjust your stats depending on the tomes or other stat items you have equipped.

Another important item for any bard is Epic Elyd Edge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Elyd_Edge) (House Deneith Epics) for singing Inspire Heroics (+4 Dodge) and Inspire Competence (+2 Skills) on your party mates. It turns them from single target buffs to area of effect.

Gear



Armor:

Epic Red Dragonscale Armor (Velah) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Red_Dragonscale_Armor) with (+6 DEX and Toughness)

Bracers: Epic Gloves of the Claw (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Gloves_of_the_Claw) (Heavy Fortification, +2 exceptional con)
Goggles: Tharne's Goggles (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tharne's_Goggles)
Helm:

Charisma +6 Helm of Perform +13 (Large guild augment: 20 hp)
Greensteel 300 SP, 6 charisma skills (lightning strike guard or air guard). Use Eagle's Splendor

Necklace:

Necklace of Major Luck (random drop)
Torc of Prince Raiyum (http://ddowiki.com/page/Torc_of_Prince_Raiyum-de_II) (when mana is low)
Epic Grim's Necklace (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Grim's_Bracelet) (7 strength, +3 dodge, green slot: +2 luck)

Trinket: Litany of the Dead (http://ddowiki.com/page/Litany_of_the_Dead_(item)) or Planar Focus of Prowess (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Planar_Focus_of_Prowess)
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (http://ddowiki.com/page/Adamantine_Cloak_of_the_Wolf) (dodge 4, exceptional seeker 5, +4 to-hit)
Belt: Colethenis's Belt (http://ddowiki.com/page/Colethenis's_Belt) (2 seeker, 6 Con. Set bonus: 2d6 slicing damage on hit)
Boots: Green Steel Boots (+45 Hit Points, Radiance guard)
Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw (30% healing amplification, set bonus : +4 damage) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Gloves_of_the_Claw)
Ring: Ring of the Ravager (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ring_of_the_Ravager), 6 str, +1 str, +20% healing amplification
Ring: Ring of the Stalker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Ring_of_the_Stalker_(Tier_3)) (yellow: greater false life, colorless: +1 con, ghostly, manslayer, +6 seeker, +3 exceptional backstab)



Ideal Weapons


Trash Mobs (non-bosses)

Main Hand. Alchemical Khopesh (earth-earth-earth) or Nightmare (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Nightmare,_the_Fallen_Moon)
Off Hand. Alchemical Khopesh (earth-earth-water) or Nightmare (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Nightmare,_the_Fallen_Moon)

Trash Mobs (devils and other lawful monsters, especially when already crowd controlled)

Main & Off Hand. Epic Chaosblade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Chaosblade)

Misc. Bosses

Main & Off Hand. Balizarde (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Balizarde,_Protector_of_the_King) or Drow Khopesh of the Weapon Master

Devil Bosses (Tower of Despair, Arraetrekos, Suulomedes, Chronoscope bosses)

Main & Off Hand. +5 Holy Burst Silver Khopesh of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane

Demon Bosses (Marilith, Hezrou, Demonweb Bosses, Flensers)

Main & Off Hand. +5 Holy Burst Cold iron khopesh of Greater Chaotic Outsider Bane

Evil Constructs (Lord of Blades, Portals)

Main & Off Hand. +5 Holy Burst Adamantine khopesh of Greater Construct Bane

Undead

Main & Off Hand. Greensteel heavy mace, khopesh, or warhammer positive-positive-positive

Dragons

Main & Off Hand. Tinah (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tinah,_Sword_of_the_Sea) (warning: Crushing Wave breaks cold damage over time spells, so make sure no one in your party is using these)



Skill Points


1 rank in Tumble, to enable its use
23 ranks in Use Magic Device, Perform, Concentration, Balance
10 ranks in Jump
Remainder in Move Silently, Hide, Haggle, whatever


Spell selection


(Level 1): Hypnotism (-3 will save debuff to aid casters situationaly), Focusing Chant (self buff), Sonic Blast (the incredible box breaker), Master's Touch (grants martial weapon proficiency to wielded weapon), Merfolk's Blessing (zerg swim or fly)

(Level 2): Blur (buff party), Rage (always), Glitterdust (An AoE spell to grab monsters' attention in a pinch, such as kiting part 2 of Tower of Despair, Invisibility (is not broken by fascinate)

(Level 3): Haste (always), Good Hope (does not stack with Inspire Courage or Greater Heroism, but is nice if the others wear off, Displacement (always), Cure Serious Wounds

(Level 4): Freedom of Movement (always), Dimension Door, Break Enchantment (use liberally to destroy area of effect enemy spells such as blade barrier, firewall, or iron defender barf, Cure Critical Wounds

(Level 5): Greater Heroism (always when fear is a risk), Mass Suggestion (won't work well, but it can be nice in underlevel content), Mass Cure Light Wounds, Greater Dispel Magic, Neutralize Poison

(Level 6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Otto's irresistible dance ("hold still!" spell), Cat's grace, Mass, Eagle's Splendor, Mass


Enhancements:


Bard Musical Prodigy
Lingering Song IV
Attack II
Damage III
Bravery III
Extra Song I
Warchanter II
Bard Song Magic III
Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
Human Strength I
Human Constitution I
Racial Toughness III
Human Versatility II
Human Improved Recovery III


Fatesinger

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7392/fatesinger.jpg

For full description of Fatesinger abilities, see Fatesinger - DDO Wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Fatesinger)

Fury of the Wild

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3209/furyofthewild.jpg

For full description of Fury of the Wild abilities, see Fury of the Wild - DDO Wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Fury_of_the_Wild)

Ideas for Twists of Fate



[b]Tier 4 (Fury of the Wild) Sense Weakness
Tier 3 (Fatesinger) Reign
Tier 3 (Shadowdancer) Grim Precision
Tier 3 (Legendary Dreadnought) Seeker +6
Tier 2 (Legenary Dreadnought) Improved Power Attack
Tier 2 (Grandmaster of Flowers) Hail of Blows
Tier 1 (Fury of the Wild) Tunnel Vision
Tier 1 (Fury of the Wild) Primal Scream
Tier 1 (Primal Avatar) Rejuvenation Cocoon
Tier 1 (Unyielding Sentinel) Brace for Impact



Bard References

The Classic Rocker (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249865) - DPS 2-Handed Fighting Warchanter, with quickened heals (20 bard - human, warforged, or h-orc template)
Guide to Bard Buffs (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Bard_Buffs)
Warchanter enhancements (http://ddowiki.com/page/Warchanter_enhancements)

[maddmatt70]

Very nice build. I like how you fit in the khopesh instead of extend which is something I should personally explore next mod - I have a similar build. Depends on what if any weapons they add. I also like getting those fascinate enhancements especially if they come in handy next mod. Very nice gear allocation as well. I would prefer lightning strike guard over radiance though. I have a feeling the gear will change a fair amount next mod we will see..

[lOprahl]

The capstone does nothing for this build unfortunately...going pure is not maximizing this build's potential.

+1 damage at 20 is not a viable argument for not multiclassing

1 example Evasion > +1/+1 attack / damage


Other then that...I like how youve put em together...very playable build

[maddmatt70]

The capstone does nothing for this build unfortunately...going pure is not maximizing this build's potential.

+1 damage at 20 is not a viable argument for not multiclassing

1 example Evasion > +1/+1 attack / damage


Other then that...I like how youve put em together...very playable build

hmm in a raid with 6 other melee +1/+1 might be better then evasion or at least comparable..

[lOprahl]

IMO, evasion allows bards to be much more durable then their non evasion counterparts...but your right the +1/+1 difference in songs, on paper, might be a difficult comparison.

Basically my point was...Chanter III, if it exists will cue at 18...(should it follow the pattern of other classes). With an 11 base charisma, the capstone is useless for this build.

Going pure from 18 gives you +2 Charisma +2 DCs.

Taking two levels of fighter gives you 2 more feats. 2 more feats > +1/+1 to songs. imo

[maddmatt70]

IMO, evasion allows bards to be much more durable then their non evasion counterparts...but your right the +1/+1 difference in songs, on paper, might be a difficult comparison.

Basically my point was...Chanter III, if it exists will cue at 18...(should it follow the pattern of other classes). With an 11 base charisma, the capstone is useless for this build.

Going pure from 18 gives you +2 Charisma +2 DCs.

Taking two levels of fighter gives you 2 more feats. 2 more feats > +1/+1 to songs. imo

Anthios sounds like she/he plays her/his battle bard alot like mine. Buffing Buffing Buffing. I place such a premium on it. Every buff imaginable in a sense. I trust in the melee to kill things. I try to kill things everything I can, but the melee should be able to outkill me heck they should be able to walk on water so to speak. My job is to make sure they can walk on water along with the casters and clerics with our buffs. 1 less to hit and damage doesn't sound like alot, but it all ads up every single little greasy point of damage. Clerics should get fired for not casting prayer by the way - fired.. 6 melees with +1 to hit and damage > then two feats and +1 to strength..

There is also the little tidbit dropped by Eladrin of other capstones in the future and he mentioned specifically one more oriented toward warchanters...

[Anthios888]

Thanks for the replies and good debate. I think either way is a great way to go for a battlebard, and evasion would certainly give a lot to the build, and I really would not argue against someone choosing that route. Others have suggested a fighter splash to pick up the feats I want, and I have an alternate build with high DPS and mass healing spec that I chose not to roll (drow 18 bard/1 barb/1 fighter).

Part of my logic in staying pure was the premium I place on buffs. I know we have trashed the capstone a lot for warchanters, but remember that it also gives 2 extra songs and 20% extra duration, which may be gravy but can really help in those long raids with lots of people needing skill songs/AC songs. Extra/longer songs also opens up the possibility of not shrining and speed running. The spare songs are also nice for me because I intend to use fascinate liberally.

The possibility of a future warchanter capstone is also a reason to plan long term rather than for a few difficult quests we run today.

Multiclassing sacrifices more damage for myself but also for my party mates. It seems like everyone and his mom is going to have speed boosts in the next mod, and the aggregate damage over time should be significant. Evasion is fantastic, but I know I can live without it if I need to, especially with UMD. There will be a lot of times where I miss it, especially when I do not yet have the right gear. But it is a build decision I stand by for the sake of future proofing and the goal of doing the most I can for the party.

Edit: I'm a she

[lOprahl]

... 6 melees with +1 to hit and damage > then two feats and +1 to strength..
...There is also the little tidbit dropped by Eladrin of other capstones in the future and he mentioned specifically one more oriented toward warchanters...

on paper maybe..in practice....one word bah!

I know you might have me in the math, but style points / custimization options are a very tempting trade off.
(I pulled out the TI-82 and your right...even though it isnt sexy).

I do agree however, staying pure has a big lasting upside...hard to build to what might be though...well thats the circular argument i get in at least..

[maddmatt70]

on paper maybe..in practice....one word bah!

I know you might have me in the math, but style points / custimization options are a very tempting trade off.
(I pulled out the TI-82 and your right...even though it isnt sexy).

I do agree however, staying pure has a big lasting upside...hard to build to what might be though...well thats the circular argument i get in at least..

Hey nothing wrong with the 2 rogue levels especially if you can do rogue stuff as well. It comes down to style a bit for sure..

[maddmatt70]

Thanks for the replies and good debate. I think either way is a great way to go for a battlebard, and evasion would certainly give a lot to the build, and I really would not argue against someone choosing that route. Others have suggested a fighter splash to pick up the feats I want, and I have an alternate build with high DPS and mass healing spec that I chose not to roll (drow 18 bard/1 barb/1 fighter).

Part of my logic in staying pure was the premium I place on buffs. I know we have trashed the capstone a lot for warchanters, but remember that it also gives 2 extra songs and 20% extra duration, which may be gravy but can really help in those long raids with lots of people needing skill songs/AC songs. Extra/longer songs also opens up the possibility of not shrining and speed running. The spare songs are also nice for me because I intend to use fascinate liberally.

The possibility of a future warchanter capstone is also a reason to plan long term rather than for a few difficult quests we run today.

Multiclassing sacrifices more damage for myself but also for my party mates. It seems like everyone and his mom is going to have speed boosts in the next mod, and the aggregate damage over time should be significant. Evasion is fantastic, but I know I can live without it if I need to, especially with UMD. There will be a lot of times where I miss it, especially when I do not yet have the right gear. But it is a build decision I stand by for the sake of future proofing and the goal of doing the most I can for the party.

Edit: I'm a she

You sound like a good bard. Alot of the old good bards on my server Khyber have left DDO sadly. Quicktoezzz, Snowflakes, Animate just to name a few. There are some new bards out there, but they don't feel the same oh well. I wouldn't mind if they merged these servers so folks could run a bit together.. I wouldn't mind running with some other bards out there..

[Anthios888]

Don't snuggle up too close, Matt, my other pure warchanter does crowd control and we all know what you think of that ;)

But yeah I agree, I would love to be able to run with some of personalities I have seen on the forums, especially other serious battleclerics. But at the same time, there are a lot I'm happy to avoid... so who knows.

[maddmatt70]

Don't snuggle up too close, Matt, my other pure warchanter does crowd control and we all know what you think of that ;)

But yeah I agree, I would love to be able to run with some of personalities I have seen on the forums, especially other serious battleclerics. But at the same time, there are a lot I'm happy to avoid... so who knows.

A warchanter that does cc owwiee.. Now I am huge fan of warchanters that are solid healers. Mavnifico, taking a break atm, is a great build and player who does the warchanter healing bit, but cc especially for warchanter is painful in my opinion. I have hangover, who I know will be hurt by the capstone, but she can heal and cc. Nothing inherently wrong with bard cc just the way it is in DDO right now.

On battleclerics. My guildie Clean, Dark-star on the forums here, has two battleclerics and he is pretty serious about them. I like his new battle cleric alot elf twf 14 cleric 2 monk finesse build which I think is really good. I have run with Nick's sorc and barbarian, he is a really good player and a nice guy (argo/archmagi). He said his main was/is? is a battle cleric so I imagine the cleric is really good. Not a ton of real notable battle clerics (I am assuming you mean melee) on Khyber although there has been some real good new ones that I have run with while leveling up and at end game lately so that is changing. We will see.

Enough babbling - it sure would be nice running with some of these other folks like you said...

[Anthios888]

Just an update. I capped this build in the last couple of weeks and can say it is among the most fun builds I have ever done. There were no dead levels, and I could raid by level 12-13 with no guilt.

I got lucky and completed my dragontouched shroud quickly (+5 resist, +6 con, destruction), which helped the growing pains of fitting in all the gear. One other thing I did to make that easier was make a tier 2 HP item on goggles, where it is easiest to fit in, with the expectation of recrafting once I pull a Tharne's goggles.

As for action points, the fascinate undead/construct is way more fun than it should be, and I currently have the pricey but useful full inspired attack line. In the future, I may pick up more life magic and wand mastery, but for now I am happy with fascinate/buffing spec.

Survivability was a concern without enough UMD to heal scroll until I get some of the raid loot, but I have found that with a few static resist items, alternating wands and potions to heal, liberal use of stoneskin wands (cheaping out here is a mistake imo) and displacement, it's hardly a problem. And if you kill them before they kill you, you have a lot less healing to do :)

[sirgog]

IMO, evasion allows bards to be much more durable then their non evasion counterparts...but your right the +1/+1 difference in songs, on paper, might be a difficult comparison.

Basically my point was...Chanter III, if it exists will cue at 18...(should it follow the pattern of other classes). With an 11 base charisma, the capstone is useless for this build.

Going pure from 18 gives you +2 Charisma +2 DCs.

Taking two levels of fighter gives you 2 more feats. 2 more feats > +1/+1 to songs. imo

+1 damage to the entire party/raid is a nice bonus, nothing critical.

What looks like it will be crucial (from the Lammania people playing Mod 10 content) is the extra +1 to attack rolls.

It seems like the Epic difficulty quests (which will take over from ToD as endgame) present a lot of foes with extremely high AC.

Mod 10 looks like it might just be time to toggle Power Attack off, invest seriously in Inspired Damage 2 and 3 and keep your bards pure for that extra +1 to hit.

If your party members require a 12 to hit or to confirm a crit, that extra +1 to hit is a whopping +11% to party DPS. If they require a 17 to hit/confirm, a massive +25%.

[maddmatt70]

+1 damage to the entire party/raid is a nice bonus, nothing critical.

What looks like it will be crucial (from the Lammania people playing Mod 10 content) is the extra +1 to attack rolls.

It seems like the Epic difficulty quests (which will take over from ToD as endgame) present a lot of foes with extremely high AC.

Mod 10 looks like it might just be time to toggle Power Attack off, invest seriously in Inspired Damage 2 and 3 and keep your bards pure for that extra +1 to hit.

If your party members require a 12 to hit or to confirm a crit, that extra +1 to hit is a whopping +11% to party DPS. If they require a 17 to hit/confirm, a massive +25%.

I do not know why you rezzed this old thread although this is a good build. For epic difficulty it is a case of fighter love and rogue hate. Fighters have a ridiculous to-hit so expect them to have not much issue, but rogues will have an issue. You are over stating a bard's role. It will be max your inspire damage out and then if you have points which nearly all bards do currently max your to-hit because what else are you going to max really. +1 to hit and damage for a level 20 bard vs. a multi-class is not a big deal presuming that multi-class is worthwhile.

What I failed to see and was disappointed I did not see in the Wiz King Epic lammania preview was fascinate dcs. My guess is fascinate might still be effective in many of those quests.

[Anthios888]

Bump for mod 9

[maddmatt70]

Some advice for you Anthios. On rabiez my level 20 human warchanter I have the level 6 ottos spell which allows me to cc if need be. With the bard capstone my spell penetration is actually not so bad so I nearly always land this. In the epic content this is a very nice feature because I can run up to a mob and hit that mob with the ottos spell and then melee that mob. This is especially nice for fire and even air elementals. If the party needs more ccing I can pick up the slack if need be heck I can even drink a few mana pots and do almost all the ccing in a quest. I recommend you pick the spell up you will not regret it.

[Anthios888]

I have it, I love it, OP updated.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Some advice for you Anthios. On rabiez my level 20 human warchanter I have the level 6 ottos spell which allows me to cc if need be. With the bard capstone my spell penetration is actually not so bad so I nearly always land this

I can't believe my eyes! :D

Like I said a long time ago, bard CC is no joke. Due to other obligations I dont have Mississippe at 20 yet... but so far my spells are all sticking. Even though they nerfed Irresistible Dance a bit, its still hella effective. Beholders, Ellies, Orthons really have little chance against it.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Bump for mod 9

I really love this build... mostly because you have kept her pure and fit so much into this build. Whenever someone asks me for advice on building a warchanter, who can also do the healing and CC, I point them right to this build.

Would love your opinion on this (and Mad's opinion too if your reading). I'm still miffed that I'm weighing the possibility of fitting Inspired Attack into Miss. I am seeing no problems so far up to 20 for melees. I'm hearing that Epic levels are a different story however. Is it that hard to hit in the epic stuff? (Always great to hear the warchanter side of things, especially in the matter of buffing tanks for most effective dps possible)

[maddmatt70]

I can't believe my eyes! :D

Like I said a long time ago, bard CC is no joke. Due to other obligations I dont have Mississippe at 20 yet... but so far my spells are all sticking. Even though they nerfed Irresistible Dance a bit, its still hella effective. Beholders, Ellies, Orthons really have little chance against it.


Bards dont get mass hold monster which is my favorite cc spell. In epic content though enchantment based spells work well so cc bards actually are decent although still not as good as wizards or sorcs because they have less spell access (they do not have great spells like web, halt undead, mass hold monster, or symbol of stunning/persuasion).

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Bards dont get mass hold monster which is my favorite cc spell. In epic content though enchantment based spells work well so cc bards actually are decent although still not as good as wizards or sorcs because they have less spell access (they do not have great spells like web, halt undead, mass hold monster, or symbol of stunning/persuasion).

This is good news indeed for bards. Naturally, a bard will never have the CC spell selection of a Wiz or Sorc, nor should they.. Good bards are usually busy doing so many other things anyway. I do agree that having access to mass hold monster and some symbols would really be HUGE for bards and give bards more mass appeal..

It really comes down to understanding WHAT a bard can do and doing it very, very well.

[Anthios888]

This is good news indeed for bards. Naturally, a bard will never have the CC spell selection of a Wiz or Sorc, nor should they.. Good bards are usually busy doing so many other things anyway. I do agree that having access to mass hold monster and some symbols would really be HUGE for bards and give bards more mass appeal..

It really comes down to understanding WHAT a bard can do and doing it very, very well.

Aandre, I hate to turn down a compliment, but I think you have my builds mixed up. Roq Star is pretty bad at crowd control and her healing is not on par with a real "healer". Her purpose is much more melee focused and that's why Madmatt and I were discussing using things like otto's irresistible that don't require much casting ability at all. In many situations, I'm with him and would trade crowd control for the DPS Roq brings just because it is so fun to play. As far as which build I would recommend, I favor neither. A DPS warchanter and a CHA warchanter have different strengths. Each player knows what she is looking for.

The bard you have run with of mine is Elizabella (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2533001#post2533001), and fits more the description you wrote above.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Aandre, I hate to turn down a compliment, but I think you have my builds mixed up.

Well, my compliment was more for your general understanding and playstyle of warchanters.... more than it was for Roq's ability to do serious CC. :) Looking a little closer at this build its obvious where her strengths lie. (I didnt look at Roqs stats before I posted, it was just mistaken ID) I was also pointing out that if quality warchanters can hit Ottos in Epic content, that it bodes very well for us Spellsingers out there... As for which build I was referring to in the previous post, of course I was thinking of Elizabella... Must admit, since I'm contemplating building a warchanter, it would be fun to see Roq in action...

I get lots of questions on building a bard... as I'm sure you do. When someone wants to roll a warchanter, without hesitation I send em your way.

[Anthios888]

Changes for Update 2-3, pending Dragon loot:

FEATS
Switching Improved Critical: Piercing for Slashing.

STATS
Pulled +3 dex tome from VoD 20th and may lesser reincarnate to pick up a bracket of STR, CON, or CHA depending on which seems like a good investment. No TR plans for this character.

GEAR

Epic Desert really opened up a lot of options for Roq. Picking up Seeker 10 (at the expense of my +5 resist and Destruction robe) will be totally worth it, and the epic Chaosblades are a big upgrade from my standard mineral IIs. Good thing for her is that I recently decided to make my khopesh cleric a greatsword warforged, so Roq is first in line for chain and blades.

Now, the challenge of getting rid of that pesky 25% Arcane Spell Failure is doable with an ASF rune and the 7-fingered gloves from the Titan raid, which I lucked into in about 10 runs. This is a character that already wore several Desert items static (Firestorm Greaves and Torc), so it won't be a stretch to upgrade those provided there is not too much competition from my alts.

I'm very excited about what Dragon and Gianthold could bring, but here's where I'm at right now:


Weapons: *Epic Chaosblades, Greensteel khopeshes: Mineral IIs with blast and +2 con, *Lightning II swith blasts, Misc. Greater Banes etc.
*Armor: Epic Marilith Chain (Seeker +10 / DR/5 Evil / Evil Guard / -15% Arcane Spell Failure)
Bracers: Greensteel Bracers (Wizardry VI / 150 SP / lightning strike guard, +6 cha skills)
Goggles: Tharne's Goggles (Seeker +5, True Seeing, spot 15)
Helm: Minos Legens (Toughness / Heavy Fortification)
Necklace: Torc of Prince Raiyum (Transform Kinetic Energy)
Trinket: Litany of the Dead (+1 hitdam / +1 to all stats)
*Cloak: Greensteel Weave Cloak (45 HP / 6 wis / +1 str skills +5 con skills)
Belt: Knost's Belt (Greater False Life, 6 con)
*Boots: Epic Firestorm Greaves (+4 resist / 6 dex (Also, Swaps and Boots of Anchoring))
Gloves: Seven-Fingered Gloves (+5 UMD, -10% ASF)
Ring: Encusted Ring, (Frenzied Berzeker Set bonus / 6 str / +3 ex. str)
Ring: Thamor's Ring, (6 CHA, +1 CON, 20% healing amplification)

*Items I don't have finished yet. Cloak was miscrafted without the concordant opposition, so I may re-craft to another effect. I have the base items for all of the DQ loot but am still working on the chain and khopeshes.

Thamor's ring could be really flexible if there was some better ring out there from Dragon or something. I would ideally like to get a Shintao or Tempest set, but since the character already has 20 Tower completions and no boots, that might take me a while to prioritize.

PLAYSTYLE

Buffing with greater/superior Mending V-VII is kind of annoying, but with the mana available from Torc and Mysterious Bauble, I throw a lot of heals to people in addition to usual Axer Package. Besides that, not a lot has changed - sing melee fascinate haste and loot!

WARCHANTER 3?
Pretty please?

[Gunga]

You're a rock star.

But, my bard is better.

Boomph. There, I said it.

Now what.

[Anthios888]

You're a rock star.

But, my bard is better.

Boomph. There, I said it.

Now what.

Your bard is ugly and mine is smokin' hot.

[Gunga]

GRR. Foiled again.

[Anthios888]

I like how you backed down before I even got into the screenshots.

[Gunga]

Pfft. I'm a big, big fan of screen shots.

Let's share.

[Anthios888]

A subscription to RockFan online costs $19.95/month. You ain't got it.

[Soldack]

I have looked at a lot of builds of a lot of classes with the notion what would be helped the most with a completionist feat.

Doesn't completionist with your TWF build seem superior to any other clas sor build of anything...

[Anthios888]

You know, it would be pretty sexy to have completionist, but there are characters I would pick first simply because of the feat craziness.

Why?


Roq Star is not very skill dependent. +3 UMD would be a nice feat, but what would I give up?
A strength and con bracket would be nice, but the DPS would be more with khopesh than a strength bracket.
Without evasion and other abilities, dex and wisdom are saves and nothing more.


If I had completionist available, I would make a build with identical starting stats and feats to this one, except I would take 2 rogue and 2 fighter levels for evasion, trap skills and 2 extra feats. The extra feats would be completionist and extend or maximize. Then the completionist would really pay off, and you could also double as a healer and evader.

That said, if completionist counts toward stat requirements for certain feats like G2WF etc, I would make a two weapon fighting battlecleric with divine might 3 in a heartbeat.

Really, it's all theoretical for me - I may be pretty serious, but even I gave up on completionist. My one 36 point build and a basketfull of epic VON items seems like a huge enough project atm :)

[Soldack]

You know, it would be pretty sexy to have completionist, but there are characters I would pick first simply because of the feat craziness.

Why?


Roq Star is not very skill dependent. +3 UMD would be a nice feat, but what would I give up?
A strength and con bracket would be nice, but the DPS would be more with khopesh than a strength bracket.
Without evasion and other abilities, dex and wisdom are saves and nothing more.


If I had completionist available, I would make a build with identical starting stats and feats to this one, except I would take 2 rogue and 2 fighter levels for evasion, trap skills and 2 extra feats. The extra feats would be completionist and extend or maximize. Then the completionist would really pay off, and you could also double as a healer and evader.

That said, if completionist counts toward stat requirements for certain feats like G2WF etc, I would make a two weapon fighting battlecleric with divine might 3 in a heartbeat.

Really, it's all theoretical for me - I may be pretty serious, but even I gave up on completionist. My one 36 point build and a basketfull of epic VON items seems like a huge enough project atm :)

Ohh completionist is a pipe dream, but I have never turned down a pipe...

The other build I was toying with is Kensai fighter because of all the feats, but a bard woule let me take full advantage of the 11 inherent feats a completionist picks up. Pretty much only the gimpy Cleric turn undead boost would go by the wayside while EVERY other inherent completionist feat (even the casters) would be useful to your 2 weapon fighter bard build. I like the level 6 spells so much that I am leaning towards 2 rog/18 bard or 2 ftr/18 bard. ( My useless fantasy is 2 monk/18 bard or 2 pally/18 bard).

Now with all this said, completionist is so many months (maybe a year) away that thsi akin to me saying I perfer harvard over yale for my 10 year-old son one day....

[maddmatt70]

Your gear setup is interesting, but I would prefer destruction on DT or epic spectral gloves or shintao set on my bard. The to-hit is pretty important on epic content and if I can buff the living heck out of other melee to-hit (destruction) it is very much appreciated. There may be some more options in update 3 and will likely be something in epic gianthold which alleviates this issue.

[Anthios888]

Your gear setup is interesting, but I would prefer destruction on DT or epic spectral gloves or shintao set on my bard. The to-hit is pretty important on epic content and if I can buff the living heck out of other melee to-hit (destruction) it is very much appreciated. There may be some more options in update 3 and will likely be something in epic gianthold which alleviates this issue.

My current armor has Destruction on it. It's not going anywhere. If I'm in a party that needs additional help to-hit, it's no problem to drop my own damage to help theirs -- I am a team player and very resourceful. Still, as much as I love destruct (I grinded it out on almost every character), I have found that it is one of those things that isn't always necessary and is often redundant when other members are wearing it. Assuming I can hit in a given quest, adding seeker 10 with dual khopeshes is a very major increase in DPS over your typical bard.

I'd also like to add that epic spectral gloves is a wasted item for a bard as the comptence bonus does not stack with bard songs.

Shintao set is on the wish list but I was not lucky enough to pull it in 20 runs, and I have other characters that have to take their turns out. It is something I will fit in but I do not see it as a big priority because of how nicely everything is working right now.

Also remember that my to-hit songs are maxed out. I typically do not have major issues hitting on this character, even in epic content. A lesser reincarnate will give me a 38 strength thanks to a +3 dex tome I was able to pull.

[maddmatt70]

My current armor has Destruction on it. It's not going anywhere. If I'm in a party that needs additional help to-hit, it's no problem to drop my own damage to help theirs -- I am a team player and very resourceful. Still, as much as I love destruct (I grinded it out on almost every character), I have found that it is one of those things that isn't always necessary and is often redundant when other members are wearing it. Assuming I can hit in a given quest, adding seeker 10 with dual khopeshes is a very major increase in DPS over your typical bard.

I'd also like to add that epic spectral gloves is a wasted item for a bard as the comptence bonus does not stack with bard songs.

Shintao set is on the wish list but I was not lucky enough to pull it in 20 runs, and I have other characters that have to take their turns out. It is something I will fit in but I do not see it as a big priority because of how nicely everything is working right now.

Also remember that my to-hit songs are maxed out. I typically do not have major issues hitting on this character, even in epic content. A lesser reincarnate will give me a 38 strength thanks to a +3 dex tome I was able to pull.

I do not mean to critique all your builds it is just there are so few true power gaming bards out there. I know of very few on my home server of Khyber and very few post on the forums here. The epic spectral gloves are probably not a long term solution for a bard, but they do add +4 competence to hit which is 2 better then what inspire greatness gives.

Advice on item posting you should post both sets of armor - one for a party that needs to hit in epic content such as rogues in group and really non barbarian/fighter melee and another for people that do not or when not in epic content.

[Soldack]

Shintao set is on the wish list but I was not lucky enough to pull it in 20 runs, and I have other characters that have to take their turns out.

I only run one toon. I fyou didn't have alts, completionist wouldn't seem AS crazy. It would be still be crazy, but just slightly..lol

[Bart_D]

I like this build and have started out a 28-pt version (16 15 14 8 8 12) which i enjoy immensely. I wonder which 6 skills you improve or do you spread them out more?

[maddmatt70]

I think I commented on this before, but the main thing I would change on this build is to pick up the maximize feat at the expense of either toughness, improved critical slash, or khopesh. Since the OP is a chaos blade fan I would get rid of toughness. Fyi you should experiment without toughness especially considering all the gear you have OP it really does not make that much of difference to this build. I think not having maximize is reflective of having another bard which is more healing specced and regularly running with alot of healers. Being able to heal, cc, dps, and buff is what really makes the level 20 human warchanter bard so special. I have maximize and quicken for that matter and it rocks.

[Anthios888]

I think I commented on this before, but the main thing I would change on this build is to pick up the maximize feat at the expense of either toughness, improved critical slash, or khopesh. Since the OP is a chaos blade fan I would get rid of toughness. Fyi you should experiment without toughness especially considering all the gear you have OP it really does not make that much of difference to this build. I think not having maximize is reflective of having another bard which is more healing specced and regularly running with alot of healers. Being able to heal, cc, dps, and buff is what really makes the level 20 human warchanter bard so special. I have maximize and quicken for that matter and it rocks.

You know how I feel about maximize and quicken, but adding them to this build simply waters it down too much. Dropping the 50ish HP for maximize without getting quicken to make it nofail when I need it is just not a good trade-off. It makes me squishier instead of more survivable when it matters most. (And if concentration checks aren't a problem, my existing healing with spells and scrolls works fine. Bard heal scrolls with mastery and human healing amp are uber). Dropping khopesh or improved critical are too much of a DPS loss to justify.

I have several other builds in my collection that use rapiers or fighter splashes to fit in quicken and maximize (for example, my wife has Fanttom of the Roq Opera, a 16 bard / 2 rog / 2 ftr that is similar to this with quicken, maximize, and evasion). Would I trade it in? At this point in the game, nope. I run Roq through epic quests every night (super close to that Marilith chain with ASF rune) and I have no regrets.

Others doing similar builds may find a lot of benefit from dropping khopesh and toughness to fit in quicken and maximize, but do your best to avoid the biggest problem with most bards: being too weak at everything. Going from 520 or 500 HP to 470 or 450 HP is a big drop, and a bigger one for a bard than some of the other classes that can afford to lose a little beef. Those little dps drops are like losing tempest.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy -- as you become less able to melee competitively, you'll spend more time overcomphensating by spending all your time healing. Not that bards can't be great healers, but those cure lights and cure moderates need a lot of help to fully keep up with classes like favored soul and cleric, even when the cleric in question is a melee, too. Roq Star caps out around 1100 SP + mysterious bauble + spell storing ring + torc, which is like an unlimited supply of displacements, hastes, rages, and buffs for the party. I do my part to help out, and I'm always there with a scroll or cure critical when needed, but I'd be a pretty crappy "healer" on this character. I like not having to hold back on the buffing.

[maddmatt70]

You know how I feel about maximize and quicken, but adding them to this build simply waters it down too much. Dropping the 50ish HP for maximize without getting quicken to make it nofail when I need it is just not a good trade-off. It makes me squishier instead of more survivable when it matters most. (And if concentration checks aren't a problem, my existing healing with spells and scrolls works fine. Bard heal scrolls with mastery and human healing amp are uber). Dropping khopesh or improved critical are too much of a DPS loss to justify.

I have several other builds in my collection that use rapiers or fighter splashes to fit in quicken and maximize (for example, my wife has Fanttom of the Roq Opera, a 16 bard / 2 rog / 2 ftr that is similar to this with quicken, maximize, and evasion). Would I trade it in? At this point in the game, nope. I run Roq through epic quests every night (super close to that Marilith chain with ASF rune) and I have no regrets.

Others doing similar builds may find a lot of benefit from dropping khopesh and toughness to fit in quicken and maximize, but do your best to avoid the biggest problem with most bards: being too weak at everything. Going from 520 or 500 HP to 470 or 450 HP is a big drop, and a bigger one for a bard than some of the other classes that can afford to lose a little beef. Those little dps drops are like losing tempest.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy -- as you become less able to melee competitively, you'll spend more time overcomphensating by spending all your time healing. Not that bards can't be great healers, but those cure lights and cure moderates need a lot of help to fully keep up with classes like favored soul and cleric, even when the cleric in question is a melee, too. Roq Star caps out around 1100 SP + mysterious bauble + spell storing ring + torc, which is like an unlimited supply of displacements, hastes, rages, and buffs for the party. I do my part to help out, and I'm always there with a scroll or cure critical when needed, but I'd be a pretty crappy "healer" on this character. I like not having to hold back on the buffing.

I agree with your statement about trying to do too much and what I am talking about is pretty gear and resource intensive, but man oh man it is awesome what the level 20 human warchanter bard can do right now. I can not tell exactly what type of healer you are - I imagine a good one anyway. In a good healer's hands you can do so much I can not express this any clearer. I just use cure serious, cure crit, heal scrolls, cure lt mass, cure mod mass, and cure mod mass scrolls. My dps is still outstanding although I do not have khopeshes but rather min 2 piercers and deathnips/stunners for epic gameplay.

This all may change soon for instance they could add things that require a change of feats from anything from weaponry to monsters, but holy cow..

[Anthios888]

I like this build and have started out a 28-pt version (16 15 14 8 8 12) which i enjoy immensely. I wonder which 6 skills you improve or do you spread them out more?

I took:

Concentration
Use Magic Device
Perform
Move Silently
Hide
Balance / Jump / Tumble split

I would recommend haggle if you do not already have a haggler.

[Fenin]

I was looking at building a 28 pt version along these lines. Love grouping with Bards but have never rolled one. How far behind would I be in 16+ content if I went 2HF vs 2WF? I was thinking feats along the lines of – Toughness, THF, Maul, Weap Foc Blug, ITHF, PA, GTHF, and Extend. I know glancing blows hasn’t completely eliminated the gap between 2WF and 2HF, but is it close enough now that this wouldn’t be too gimped? Plus, I could drop DEX and pump up CHR.

Also wondering – since I’m starting at 16 STR and don’t have immediate access to a nice STR tome, whether it might be better to drop PA and take Extend at 12. Will my to hit be high enough at that point to warrant keeping PA or am I better off hitting more often for less damage?

And again along those same lines – if I were to take Extend over PA at 12, what feat do you thing I should fit in at 18? PA at this point when my numbers should be about as good as they’re going to get? Or would I be better served in picking up a different feat? Power Crit is probably not as attractive for blunt weaps.

In skills you were taking Move Silently and Hide. I thought things like MS, Hide, Listen were not very useful in DDO. I could see them being perhaps solo beneficial. How do you use them in your play?

Thanks.

[In_Like_Flynn]

Thanks Anthios888. You saved my bard.

[Fafnir]

Why is this build taking WF: Pierce and IC: Slash?

[Anthios888]

Once upon a time, there were these things called Wounding Rapiers of Puncturing, which meant you won at DDO.

I used mineral II khopeshes (that come with keen) and used rapiers for my "effect" weapons. This is still a really nice way to go if you are interested in getting things like banishing and don't have Abbot swords. At this point, though, if I was starting new, I would just stick to slashing and use khopeshes all the way through.

Giving up improved critical permanently is no longer worth it, as lightning II greensteels and epic chaosblades are way too much DPS to pass up. The second I upgrade to one of these weapons on Roq, the improved critical: piercing will be out the door.

I'll fix the original post for clarification :)

[Fafnir]

Thank you. I anticipated that would be the response and appreciate the clarification.

[Anthios888]

Some people have been asking about the necessity for improved critical on a bard. Here is the difference it makes on my build, fully geared and self-buffed. It's about 10% more DPS on this particular build, and gives access to many more weapons.

Roq's DPS with khopeshes
Mineral II -- 293 DPS
Chaosblades -- 300 DPS
Lightning Strikes - 325 DPS

[jadenkorr]

Hello, im new to bards, been reading the various bard builds, and find myself liking this one a lot. Just a quick question, what is the weapon focus: slashing for? IIRC, none of the other feats require it.

[Samadhi]

Hello, im new to bards, been reading the various bard builds, and find myself liking this one a lot. Just a quick question, what is the weapon focus: slashing for? IIRC, none of the other feats require it.

warchanter requires it

[Geekgirl27]

Just wanted to say thanks for posting this build. Used it (with a couple of tweaks to suit my playstyle) for my second toon, and just hit lvl 20 last week (fisrt lvl 20 since moving from Keeper).

Without a doubt, the most fun alt I've ever had, and never a moment when not contributing to party goodness! DPS, buffs, healing, haggling - what more could anyone ask? Even have guys I'm running with say they'd rather have one of her than another arcane & another DPS.

+1 Rep and loads of gratitude!

[justice921]

I wanted to respec my bard to do effective CC without watering down her DPS, this thread has given me some great ideas. TYVM

[Sani_Medicor]

Cool build...may give it a shot...might take extend spell instead of toughness at level one for longer buffs and swap it out after a few levels for warchanter.

[Anthios888]

hey, just an update for those with this build or similar bard builds:

I did make an Epic Marilith Chain, and discovered that the 15% Arcane Spell Failure rune does not stack with Seven-Fingered Gloves. I have 4% ASF with or without.

That was a lot of grinding to find that out, but at least the armor is still quite nice, even if it has 4% ASF. Because I am often not the only healer in the party, I think I will continue to use it, but I would not recommend it for a build with a healing focus.

[CombatLibrarian]

I'm having a blast with this build so far, I just had a couple of questions if someone could answer them :)

1. I see Bard Devotion III listed amongst the enhancement choices, but I don't see any such enhancement. Have I missed it somehow, has the name changed?

2. I also see Wand Mastery. Does this mean Wand & Scroll Mastery, rather than Wand Heightening? (Since I wouldn't see this build doing a lot of offensive wand-whipping anyway unless I'm mistaken.)

Thanks!

[Anthios888]

I'm having a blast with this build so far, I just had a couple of questions if someone could answer them :)

1. I see Bard Devotion III listed amongst the enhancement choices, but I don't see any such enhancement. Have I missed it somehow, has the name changed?

2. I also see Wand Mastery. Does this mean Wand & Scroll Mastery, rather than Wand Heightening? (Since I wouldn't see this build doing a lot of offensive wand-whipping anyway unless I'm mistaken.)

Thanks!

Bard Song Magic and Wand & Scroll Mastery. OP edited for clarity.

[CombatLibrarian]

Well, I've hit level 9 and a snag. Entirely my own fault, I needed to read more thoroughly.

Without having the +2 Dex tome ready to use, I can't take Imp. TWF at level 9. I'm pretty new to DDO, and I don't have much cash lying around and won't be able to raise it easily (The tomes run for a minimum of about 375k plat on my server). I'm thinking of the following solution:

1. Take Khopesh Proficiency at level 9
2. Use a +1 Dex Tome
3. Take +1 to Dex as my level 12 stat bump
4. Take Imp. TWF at level 12
5. ???
6. Profit!
7. (Pray I eventually can get my hands on a +4 STR tome.)

[Dendrix]

Well, I've hit level 9 and a snag. Entirely my own fault, I needed to read more thoroughly.

Without having the +2 Dex tome ready to use, I can't take Imp. TWF at level 9. I'm pretty new to DDO, and I don't have much cash lying around and won't be able to raise it easily

Spend some real cash, buy some turbine points, buy a tome from the DDO Store. It's a trivial ammount of money.

[Anthios888]

Well, I've hit level 9 and a snag. Entirely my own fault, I needed to read more thoroughly.

Without having the +2 Dex tome ready to use, I can't take Imp. TWF at level 9. I'm pretty new to DDO, and I don't have much cash lying around and won't be able to raise it easily (The tomes run for a minimum of about 375k plat on my server). I'm thinking of the following solution:

1. Take Khopesh Proficiency at level 9
2. Use a +1 Dex Tome
3. Take +1 to Dex as my level 12 stat bump
4. Take Imp. TWF at level 12
5. ???
6. Profit!
7. (Pray I eventually can get my hands on a +4 STR tome.)

I'd say this is getting way too complicated. You don't need to put a level-up in dexterity. You can begin by taking Khopesh and Improved Critical at 9 and 12. You can take other filler feats at 15 and 18, and switch these out using your free feat exchange once you pull a +2 tome, which I assure you will happen eventually. In the mean time, I'd probably lean towards using two-handed weapons (no big deal) and then actually using the dual khopeshes once you have specced into improved and greater two weapon fighting. It's not like you can't enjoy the build with this feature delayed a few levels.

And hey, when I was first rolling my alts, those tomes were like double that, and considered quite cheap! And there wasn't any Turbine store! And I had to walk uphill both ways!

[BoBoDaClown]

And I had to walk uphill both ways!

On shards of broken glass!

[CombatLibrarian]

Spend some real cash, buy some turbine points, buy a tome from the DDO Store. It's a trivial ammount of money.

Maybe trivial to you, bub, but I used the points I could afford actually buying the content I'd need to get to 20 and have raids/epics to run when I got there. My income is extremely lean right now, and in the current national economy I can hardly be blamed for that. ;P


I'd say this is getting way too complicated. You don't need to put a level-up in dexterity. You can begin by taking Khopesh and Improved Critical at 9 and 12. You can take other filler feats at 15 and 18, and switch these out using your free feat exchange once you pull a +2 tome, which I assure you will happen eventually. In the mean time, I'd probably lean towards using two-handed weapons (no big deal) and then actually using the dual khopeshes once you have specced into improved and greater two weapon fighting. It's not like you can't enjoy the build with this feature delayed a few levels.

And hey, when I was first rolling my alts, those tomes were like double that, and considered quite cheap! And there wasn't any Turbine store! And I had to walk uphill both ways!

That said, as the replies came long past when I had to level up (although i do appreciate them and will remember that in the future), I went ahead with my initial plan. And, well, I have no complaints. Khopeshes hit like little handheld freight trains. Inna face. I'm still quite enjoying the build, just hit 13 on it and picked up +6 str bracers and a couple of holy burst peshes. The damage is delicious, and I only have to break out the divine power clickies on elite named high-ac mobs (maybe a couple of same on hard, but that's rare). This is by far my favorite character so far, and will definitely be my first to hit level 20. It reminds me a bit of enhancement shaman in That Other MMO, back when it brought buffs noone else could and could be tweaked and nudged into doing quite respectable melee DPS on top with the appropriate build and gear. (And was. Yanno. Fun.)

Push comes to absolute shove, by the time I hit 20 I should be able to afford a lesser/greater reincarnation to rejuggle her stats into something a little more prime if the items I pull make that advantageous.

[CombatLibrarian]

Any thoughts on where to tweak this for Warchanter II?

[Anthios888]

Any thoughts on where to tweak this for Warchanter II?

Hey hey. It's basically just an action point change. Here are my current APs, and I have updated the original post to reflect this:

Bard Extra Song I
Bard Inspired Attack III
Bard Inspired Bravery III
Bard Inspired Damage III
Bard Lingering Song IV (could get away with less, but this is a nice luxury right now for me with so many more songs to keep going)
Bard Warchanter II
Bard Musical Prodigy
Human Greater Adaptability Strength
Human Greater Adaptability Constitution
Racial Toughness II
Bard Song Magic II
Bard Charisma II (basically only helps with UMD, so you can skip this if you wear an item. I decided the 6 AP was worth not wearing a bunny hat :D)
Bard Wand Mastery IV

So far, I'm loving warchanter II!

[reddoormedia]

Love the build. Running shroud now. Have a couple of khopeshes. Wondering how I should craft them. I see you recommendations for holy/acid burst/acid blast for both. You still think that's the best combo for this character? What's your logic if you don't mind me asking. I don't know enough about the game to make my own decision so just trying to expand my knowledge.

[Anthios888]

Love the build. Running shroud now. Have a couple of khopeshes. Wondering how I should craft them. I see you recommendations for holy/acid burst/acid blast for both. You still think that's the best combo for this character? What's your logic if you don't mind me asking. I don't know enough about the game to make my own decision so just trying to expand my knowledge.

Hey there! The reason I recommended the mineral IIs is because they are one of the best all-around weapons out there. It bypasses damage reduction on the important raid bosses, while being an excellent weapon on other monsters as well. The 4 stoneskin clickies really help, too. Especially if you're just starting out, this is a good way to go.

As far as how I did the good/earth/earth+good combination, I just recommend damage. Your AC might be useful while leveling, but it will never help at endgame, so insight 4 is not going to help you there. I actually made +2 con on one of my khopeshes, which is also fine (20 HP). But, there has been quite a bit of new equipment with the same +2 on it that will not stack with the greensteels. In retrospect, straight damage rarely goes out of style. After all, the best defense is a great offense!

If you start getting into epic, you might look at making a pair of earthgrab khopeshes or heavy picks for killing trash mobs there. These are pretty inexpensive, fortunately (half the cost of a dual shard).

Glad you enjoy the build!

edit: OP updated

[dv8maker123]

Howdy. I created a bard following this build about a month ago and just hit 18. Loving it so far (though I admit I am now at the crossroads of remaining pure versus taking the last two levels as a rogue). I'll be finishing the dragon armor series soon and was wondering what you would recommend for the armor type, Leather for the absence of the skill penalty, or Breastplate for the better AC? I would think they are a bit of a toss up, since AC tends to be less useful at this level, but the breast plate is a bit sexier. And in case folks are wondering, yes, this build is a dps machine and a ton of fun to play.

[Anthios888]

Howdy. I created a bard following this build about a month ago and just hit 18. Loving it so far (though I admit I am now at the crossroads of remaining pure versus taking the last two levels as a rogue). I'll be finishing the dragon armor series soon and was wondering what you would recommend for the armor type, Leather for the absence of the skill penalty, or Breastplate for the better AC? I would think they are a bit of a toss up, since AC tends to be less useful at this level, but the breast plate is a bit sexier. And in case folks are wondering, yes, this build is a dps machine and a ton of fun to play.

Hmmm. I went with robe. This is kind of a personal taste thing. I future proof by being able to switch back and forth if there is another armor (though this is less convenient with Epic Marilith Chain since it takes a sec to switch back, I still do it sometimes). Otherwise, breastplate is good if you want to look armored. I wouldn't fret the skill penalty, since your jump etc skills are in great shape since bards have so many skill points.

Glad you love the build as much as me! I am on my 3rd fighter TR to put some past lives behind me, and can't wait to get back to pure unadulterated bard.

[domecek1]

little advice: do this build with heavy picks. Double earth grab combo is cheap and very powerful.:)

[Anthios888]

little advice: do this build with heavy picks. Double earth grab combo is cheap and very powerful.:)

This is great advice, though it's good to point out it does not require a total philosophy change as far as this build goes. I was looking at re-speccing to a half orc by dropping the khopesh feat, but I found that in normal DPS situations, I was going to lose 10% DPS even with the power attack enhancements and extra strength. I prefer the best of both worlds: khopeshes as my primary mode and earthgrab picks for held monsters/epics I want to autocrit. Master's Touch FTW =)

Now, if you wanted to use a feat like extend or maximize, that would be a decent way to go on a human, but I found the DPS drop off pretty substantial.

[Alexkawasaki7]

Nice build! I like it, probably going to make one of my own. There's only one thing I'd change, I would drop improved critical slashing, and pick up extend for that 4 minute haste and displacement. Min 2 khopeshes have keen on them. =]

[Anthios888]

I would drop improved critical slashing, and pick up extend for that 4 minute haste and displacement. Min 2 khopeshes have keen on them. =]

But do up to ~30-36 fewer DPS (representing about 10% of the total output) than lightning II, and 10 fewer dps than chaosblades -- and that's when nothing has acid resistance. Trade offs! I know it sounds silly focusing so much on damage output on a bardic character, but I have really found that the better I can take out threats, the more survivable I am. And, the more justified I am in not being healing specced.

Another advantage of having improved critical on a character is being able to use any sick weapon you pick up. Whether it's that +5 holy bust / icy burst cold iron khopesh of pure good you just pulled, the epic Chaosblades, or prehaps the vorpal absolute chaos scimitars in the Pirate event, there is some appeal to being able to use any set of weapons, not just one pair crafted in the Shroud. Of course, if there is a new end-all-be-all weapon, you could just switch Extend back out to make use of improved critical.

If I was dropping a feat like improved critical, I would consider a race like half elf (rogue dill) or half orc for their bonuses to dps. But the racial bonuses would be hardly able to justify the drop in weapon damage! It gets kind of circular, eh?

To each her own. This is why I love DDO!

[gavijal]

Hi. Im totally new with bards, and new in ddo ( I have lvl 17 sorc). I really want to play bard but have some doubts. I want good/great melee who still have great (or best) songs and buffs (i dont care for CC- let wizzys do it) or healing (only my self and offheal a bit if its really needed - we have clerics and fvs for it). I cant decide which build to take, this one or The Classic Rocker http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249865 so I have few questions

1.which 1 is better for lvling/solo?
2.which 1 is better or more needed in end game raid/epic?
3.which 1 is more gear dependent?
4. Is 10 base CHA enough for best songs and buffs?
5.which 1 is more fun to play?

Sorry for loads of questions and bad English

[Anthios888]

Hi. Im totally new with bards, and new in ddo ( I have lvl 17 sorc). I really want to play bard but have some doubts. I want good/great melee who still have great (or best) songs and buffs (i dont care for CC- let wizzys do it) or healing (only my self and offheal a bit if its really needed - we have clerics and fvs for it). I cant decide which build to take, this one or The Classic Rocker http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249865 so I have few questions

1.which 1 is better for lvling/solo?\

Both

2.which 1 is better or more needed in end game raid/epic?

Both. This one is one of the best dps-spot bards around, and the classic rocker does nice DPS while being able to potentially fill a healer role.

3.which 1 is more gear dependent?

Probably this one is more gear dependent initially because it is two weapon fighting and has a lower to-hit starting off, but then again the Classic Rocker requires some healing gear and will never reach its potential without epic weapons. This is because 2HF is inherently way behind 2WF. But, 2WF is twice as expensive potentially. If you can muster at least two tier 2 greensteels, this one is pretty well set.

4. Is 10 base CHA enough for best songs and buffs?

Yep. The only amount of CHA to cast or sing is 16 with gear (accesses level 6 spells). Higher CHA is useful only for getting enough UMD to nofail heal scrolls (39 is the goal). You can reach 39 in a multitude of ways even with a base starting con of 6 or 8. I find 10 to 12 to be a really nice happy medium.

5.which 1 is more fun to play?

Probably this one, because it's a little more badass. But when you want to get **** done and you are short handed, the classic rocker is better able to fill in the healer role.

Sorry for loads of questions and bad English

No problem! We all start somewhere! Happy adventuring!

[gavijal]

Thank you for answers ( I can see we play on same server btw). But still have few questions. I made both of them. Roq star human which looks like D'artagnan from 3 musketeers (bard should look like that) with 2 long swords (for low lvls) and i made the classic Rocker Half Orc version . And Horc is funny, with a huge great sword every1 thinks im a barb not bard.
Question I like to ask is if both builds have green steel weapons how much difference in dps there would be? 10-20% ? Maybe less? Horcs have str boost right? U stated in other build that Horc is almost good in dps like a RoQ human. Is that difference enough to justify nerfed buff durations without extend and nerfed heals? Like them both tbh but can make my mind thats why still asking questions :)

[Anthios888]

Thank you for answers ( I can see we play on same server btw). But still have few questions. I made both of them. Roq star human which looks like D'artagnan from 3 musketeers (bard should look like that) with 2 long swords (for low lvls) and i made the classic Rocker Half Orc version . And Horc is funny, with a huge great sword every1 thinks im a barb not bard.
Question I like to ask is if both builds have green steel weapons how much difference in dps there would be? 10-20% ? Maybe less? Horcs have str boost right? U stated in other build that Horc is almost good in dps like a RoQ human. Is that difference enough to justify nerfed buff durations without extend and nerfed heals? Like them both tbh but can make my mind thats why still asking questions :)

Sounds like you should go for 2HF.

I have several bard characters, and I wanted to push the DPS at the exclusion of other areas, because I prefer a melee that can displace, haste, fascinate, sing the best songs in the game, and scroll heal (with amp and scroll mastery) over a plain old melee. That is this build.

The great thing about h-orc 2HF characters is that you can make up a lot of the old difference between the styles just by virtue of your race.

I haven't calced the builds with some of the most recent gear except using sword of shadows, but the h-orc build only equals greensteel khopeshes if it has epic sword of shadows. If I had to guess, I'd say 20-25% or more DPS between greensteel 2HF & Epic SoS -- it's pretty huge.

[gavijal]

Well now u done it. Now I really dont know what 2 do :). Hmm Its more likely that Ill grab 2 green steel over a eSOS (im in small guild). Ok , 1 more question and Ill stop bothering you ( Ill buy you few drinks in Lobster inn for it) .. normally I read " Bards are not DPS " , so how ppl react in PUGs when you start to melee?

RoQ build have maxed songs?

[Anthios888]

Well now u done it. Now I really dont know what 2 do :). Hmm Its more likely that Ill grab 2 green steel over a eSOS (im in small guild). Ok , 1 more question and Ill stop bothering you ( Ill buy you few drinks in Lobster inn for it) .. normally I read " Bards are not DPS " , so how ppl react in PUGs when you start to melee?

RoQ build have maxed songs?

How do people react?

Who cares! :) I am clear about my weaknesses, and am not the kind of player who is too proud to throw a scroll when needed. Most people come around within a few minutes, even if they are unsure or skeptical about my role in the party. I lead a majority of groups that I am in and although some PuGgers have thrown fits over having five bards in a Shroud run or something, most are pleasantly surprised.

Although people often try to boil DDO down to filling a couple of key roles or pigeonholing certain classes into specific habits, this game is one of the most flexible I have ever played. Good players with strategic approaches to their build, gear, and playstyle will be able to succeed with virtually anything. More and more people are coming around to understand that.

And it's not exactly like building a DPS bard is against the grain of the spirit of the class -- warchanter gives very healthy bonuses to melee, and scroll mastery allows for better-than-other-classes healing even without metamagic feats. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that other melees benefit from bardsongs, this bard would top many mid-range melee builds out there head to head. The very fact that it works so well in melee parties is why playing it is fun for me, since this is ultimately a group endeavor. This build might have been radical or unusual a few years ago, but by now most players with any kind of experience are comfortable and happy to have a bard racking up kills instead of standing around watching the fray.

As for max songs, both builds have maxed songs -- this is one of the most important values I have for a near-pure bard.

I love Roq Star, but I have also played Classic Rocker and I know that the total list of pros and cons generally pushes people towards a 2HF model because of the extra give that the feats and ability points have helps if you are new to playing a bard or want a catch-all toon that can heal raids.

[The_Mud_Man]

I've one question about the build. Just what sort of difference would 2 fighter levels make? Just curious if it would improve dps but still retain it's healing and CC capabilities.

[Anthios888]

I've one question about the build. Just what sort of difference would 2 fighter levels make? Just curious if it would improve dps but still retain it's healing and CC capabilities.

It only improves DPS if you can add something like past life: paladin. Haste boost I is pretty cool, but I'd rather have the +1 hit/damage from being pure bard across the entire party.

[The_Mud_Man]

Well, I was trying to think of a way to do a horc roq with khopesh, but couldn't decide if losing the capstone would be worth the extra feats, haste boost, weapon profs, and ....know I'm forgetting something.

Not considering the healing amp humans bring.

I'm not above using picks and rapiers...just a bit of a dps nut. I know good dps is capable still. I'll prolly just wind up playing around with it and go from there.

[Anthios888]

Well, I was trying to think of a way to do a horc roq with khopesh, but couldn't decide if losing the capstone would be worth the extra feats, haste boost, weapon profs, and ....know I'm forgetting something.

Not considering the healing amp humans bring.

I'm not above using picks and rapiers...just a bit of a dps nut. I know good dps is capable still. I'll prolly just wind up playing around with it and go from there.

If it helps any, last I calced with my gear human khopesh was still higher than h-orc rapier/pick.

[The_Mud_Man]

THF horc wins out on a THF human. Correct?

Hmm, still being drawn to the horc classic style build. I shouldn't have any issues getting an eSoS. Anyway, there's a reason for multiple character slots and the opportunity to buy more.

[NovaNZ]

Hail Anthios888.

Nice build. I like 'Surround sound on the Killing ground'(c) too. Have a Genghis khan and also modified Beefcake.

Issue - any takes on how one could graft your build here into a dwarf?
Genuinely interested to hear the pros/cons. (ps - would probably use Daxe with enhancements unless V. convincing case for khopesh provided)

Tx in advance

[Anthios888]

Hail Anthios888.

Nice build. I like 'Surround sound on the Killing ground'(c) too. Have a Genghis khan and also modified Beefcake.

Issue - any takes on how one could graft your build here into a dwarf?
Genuinely interested to hear the pros/cons. (ps - would probably use Daxe with enhancements unless V. convincing case for khopesh provided)

Tx in advance

Just be a dwarf and don't take khopesh. Use dwarven axes instead.

The only downside is the lack of healing amplification, slightly lower dps, and the action points for taking dwarven axe attack/damage.

The upside is better saves and hp and beefy arms.

Go for it!

[grodon9999]

A dorf pure 20 bard is not proficient in dorf-axe.

[Aashrym]

A dorf pure 20 bard is not proficient in dorf-axe.

Dwarven war axe training enhancement for dwarf war chanter II's.

[grodon9999]

Dwarven war axe training enhancement for dwarf war chanter II's.

Nice, didn't know that. But does that actually grant the Exotic Weapon proficiency? Can't tell from the planner

[Anthios888]

Nice, didn't know that. But does that actually grant the Exotic Weapon proficiency? Can't tell from the planner

Yep. Enhancement: Dwarven Waraxe Training (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Dwarven_Waraxe_Training).

[NovaNZ]

Tx Anthios888

The pros/cons pretty much as I expected.

Nice that a segment of bardic build knowledge also came to the forefront - we're all better off for that! :)

See u round in the forums.

[Anthios888]

Updated with a possible path for Fatesinger (with melee twists). I'll use Legendary Dreadnought when grouped with another fatesinger, but I'm still committed to the party buffs.

I was also glad to be able to pick up Quicken with the level increase. This update was good to this build because it was starting to get slightly frustrating before not being able to throw an uninterruptable heal in an emergency. Spell power changes have meant that megamagic feats, while useful for serious healing, are not as critical to healing. The healing capability on a melee bard like this jumped dramatically. I like quicken for the heals and for fast Otto's Irresistible Dance.

Remember that Inspire Excellence will not stack with the +1 exceptionals slotted on epic armor and ToD rings.

I was starting to miss my self-buffed melee 9 bard / 8 fighter / 3 rogue mutt, but some of these game changes make the pure battlebard more attractive because of its party uberizing speedrun worthy buffs and self-sufficiency. Reign and Valor are great and bards needed the DPS help. While other classes have gotten spell passes and uber PrEs, bards were left in the dust. I'm looking forward to the enhancement changes and crossing my fingers that bards get more special.

The main issue: Too many songs to sing, and frustrating cooldowns. Nothing to do with this build, of course, but bards in general.

[DRBuyaka]

Is there a little mistake in your build? If you wanna take two weapon fighting at 1 lvl you ll need 15 start dex, so you can pick it.

[Anthios888]

Is there a little mistake in your build? If you wanna take two weapon fighting at 1 lvl you ll need 15 start dex, so you can pick it.

Fixed! I mostly 2-handed until level 12 or so.

[Yendor_the_pokermage]

hello Anthios,

i really like the this build and would love to give it a go on my main melee Kyokoi.

Problem is except for 1 epic Chaosblade i dont have khopeshes but alot of Scimi's from previous lives (MinII, LitII, RadII, and both Kroznik's and the one from LoD chain epic)

also he has 4Monk, 2Barb, 2Ftr, 1Rog, 1Pally PL's

what i was wondering is the viability of just goin elf dropping Prof:Khopesh for Extend.

the only thing that im really worried about is the AP's spending some points into bonuses for Scimi's thou would just be 8 points for +2DMG,+1to-hit dont think i really need to spend the xtra 4 points for 1 xtra to hit.

also he does have a +4Con tome with the rest all +3's, so the possibilty of dropping toughness for maximise may be viable considering i have 2 Barb lives.

any feedback would be greatly appreciated as id like to to knock off another life quick before mabar/

Tyvm

[Anthios888]

hello Anthios,

i really like the this build and would love to give it a go on my main melee Kyokoi.

Problem is except for 1 epic Chaosblade i dont have khopeshes but alot of Scimi's from previous lives (MinII, LitII, RadII, and both Kroznik's and the one from LoD chain epic)

also he has 4Monk, 2Barb, 2Ftr, 1Rog, 1Pally PL's

what i was wondering is the viability of just goin elf dropping Prof:Khopesh for Extend.

the only thing that im really worried about is the AP's spending some points into bonuses for Scimi's thou would just be 8 points for +2DMG,+1to-hit dont think i really need to spend the xtra 4 points for 1 xtra to hit.

also he does have a +4Con tome with the rest all +3's, so the possibilty of dropping toughness for maximise may be viable considering i have 2 Barb lives.

any feedback would be greatly appreciated as id like to to knock off another life quick before mabar/

Tyvm

If you go elf, you'd have one less feat, so you wouldn't get extend.

There's no reason this wouldn't work without khopeshes. I think if it were me in your shoes, I would be a h-elf with rogue dilletante for 3d6 sneak attack damage, use scimitars while working my way up, and then use Balizarde for an endgame weapon choice. Balizarde even has keen. No nasty con penalty that way, either, and you keep healing amplification.

But your way will work great, especially with your background TR experience.

Let me know how it goes!

[Anthios888]

also he does have a +4Con tome with the rest all +3's, so the possibilty of dropping toughness for maximise may be viable considering i have 2 Barb lives.


I just saw this part. One thing you might think about doing is dropping weapon focus: slashing for maximize. Maximize (which you want to take anyway), qualifies you for the Spellsinger PrE instead of Warchanter. You'd still be mostly a melee, but with fair burst healing abilities.

Last time I leveled this build, I was a spellsinger most of the way leveling up, and loved it because of the ability to heal the PuGs I joined and the extra UMD while growing up. I switched to warchanter because I'm a fanatic, but I'm not sure that's necessarily the way you have to go to be effective.

Spellsingers undoubtedly have a leg up over warchanters for many situations, both for leveling and endgame. For example, Inspire Recklessness (Level 12 warchanter feat) does not stack with doublestrike items like alchemicals or Epic Spare Hand, making the DPS contribution from Warchanter much shallower for many characters.

You lose medium armor, Ironskin Chant, 10 HP, +1 attack, +2 damage on your Inspire Courage.

I'm still hoping that warchanters get love in the coming months, but for now, it sounds like a spellsinger-scimitar version of Roq is the direction you're headed.

[Anthios888]

Updated for Update 16.

Considered dropping Khopesh. Balizarde has made rapiers a premier DPS weapon, but I'm pretty attached to Khopeshes. I decided against it, because (a) many monsters have damage reduction, (b) I do not like to build for one weapon, (c) alchemicals rule for earthgrab, and alchemical khopeshes > alchemical rapiers. But, if you're just starting out, skipping khopesh is something to consider.

Considered changing to Virtuoso or Spellsinger. Warchanter is stupidly weak, but I'm sticking with it and making the most out of it. In the end, a +12 damage song is pretty satisfying. Since inspire recklessness doesn't stack with doublestrike items (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=385892), I recalibrated my equipment not to include doublestrike and re-made my offhand Alchemical Khopeshes with Earth (Disintegrate, Acid Blast, +2 CON) instead of Air (Lightning Strike, Doublestrike 6%, +2 DEX). While spellsinger would give everyone lots of mana, I'm holding out for Warchanter III. Also, most other bards in my guild are spellsingers, so I have a niche.

Considering picking up overwhelming critical. I agonized over what to do about Overwhelming Critical. I devised a number of splash builds and concluded that I was going to give the current build a try before doing anything drastic. Math showed me that overwhelming critical is better in 6-man quests, but pure bardsongs appear better in raids. After capping epic destinies and testing out the old build, I was pleasantly surprised. Roq performs much better in MOTU and Epic Elites than I expected, often competing with top DPS for kills. I am glad that I did not gimp my build for overwhelming critical. I am still weighing whether I could fit it in by dropping toughness, quicken, and khopesh proficiency. I may test it once I obtain the last pieces of gear to make it viable. I'll update with how it goes and whether it is worth it. I don't recommend that if you're just starting out.

Original Post. I fixed some inaccuracies in my original post, as requested. I hope I did not confuse anyone. Unfortunately, Fatesinger got nerfed a little in the time between Lamannia and where it's at now, so my stuff was the old descriptions.

See y'all in game. I'm playing this bard nonstop on Ghallanda (instead of studying...)

[Subxero]

I know I am going to catch some flak for necroing an old post but this build is awesome and I just wanted to thank you for finally getting me into bard. Been trying to make a decent one for years now and never found one I actually enjoyed as much as this build. Even though i recently did a lr +3 and added 2 lvls of fighter for cleave and great cleave to have fun in Legendary Dreadnought. But anyways Just wanted to say thank you for the very awesome post. :)