small monk rant

[captain1z]

ok so when monks 1st came out I played one for about 1 hr and said "I dont like this" and promptly deleted it.
Time passed and every now and then Id pull a good item that screamed of monkdom.

Ive got fearsome of heavy fort robes and outfits, deathblock of heavy fort outfits, dual weakening of enfeebling kamas, weakening of enfeebling handwraps, +6,7 and 8 bracers and so on and so forth.

I saved all this stuff and debated the idea, finally making a monk.

Ive reached 10th level and built him taking the advice of other forumites but also tweaking to my tastes.

The stats (in wind stance, where I normally sit)

str - 16 ac - 38 w/bark pot (have chaosgardes but cant fit them in right now, maybe never)
dex - 26 hps - 192
con - 16
int - 8
wis - 24
cha - 8

pros:
- I have fun playing him
- hes fast and agile

cons:
- max damage Ive ever done is 21 pts (LAME!!)
- when I get hit I go down like a .......... well u know
- AC is not that great (I can roll a fighter with 10 dex and have better AC at same level)
- I crit on a 20 only for x2 damage ("L" on the forehead)
- I cant hold on to my ki and in good groups Im lucky to build any ki at all
- my weakening handwraps dont work (I switched to maladroit but that doesnt lower enemy dps at all)
- If my party wipes and Im still standing I usually dont have enough ki to help anyone out
(and the ki based rez drains 50 ki that I dont have and 50 hp that I cant spare = LAME!!)
- I cant use wands of any kind nor scrolls
- I have a shuriken for a ranged weapon (mobs and players alike laugh at me for this)
- my buffs dont last longer than 60 secs if Im lucky enuff to get them off
- It would make sense to buff before a fight but monks cant do that, maybe if I can get in about 50 solid hits I can give the party a very minor buff (SUPER LAME!!!)

The only reason I can still get invited in party's at all anymore is Im a half way decent player and can make what little this character can do work for a party. After 10 levels I sorta feel like Monks serve no purpose in a group and I could have built a rogue that would out perform him. I have some fun with my monk but many aspects of the class are just embarassing. Like when someone says "hit us with that fire/pos buff again" and I reply "I cant because there is nothing to beat on right now".

For a support melee class I can barely support anyone and my melee damage is laughable.......... but I have tons of fun solo.


Monks need tons of love starting with better crit ranges and multipliers and immediately followed by fixing all the gear that is available to him (meaning better stuff and stuff that works)

Class is underwhelming and anti-climatic for the hype that was being generated for them.

[rimble]

Not to say that Monks are perfect and don't need fixing, but...



cons:
- max damage Ive ever done is 21 pts (LAME!!)

Well, you made a Finesse character...that's generally how that goes...


- when I get hit I go down like a .......... well u know
- AC is not that great (I can roll a fighter with 10 dex and have better AC at same level)

It'll catch back up, especially as a Dex character, there's a little hump spot. Starting at level 9 you're better off with Chaosgarde + Mage Armor potions (or an AC robe if you can acquire one) until level 13 and +6 AC bracers.


- I crit on a 20 only for x2 damage ("L" on the forehead)

Yeah, that is one reason why I didn't make a Finesse Monk. At least other Finesse characters can crit a bunch with Rapiers, Monks need to just raw flat out punch their way through and work that 'full Strength damage on off-hand' angle.


- I cant hold on to my ki and in good groups Im lucky to build any ki at all

That's the trade-off with Wind stance. In Fire stance I can't spend my Ki fast enough.


- my weakening handwraps dont work (I switched to maladroit but that doesnt lower enemy dps at all)

Yeah, sucks, we know. Mod 9 will be better.


- If my party wipes and Im still standing I usually dont have enough ki to help anyone out
(and the ki based rez drains 50 ki that I dont have and 50 hp that I cant spare = LAME!!)

Wind stance again...and just a matter of being 10th level, 50 Ki is alot at that level...it gets much easier to acquire/retain.


- I cant use wands of any kind nor scrolls

You could raise UMD...?


- I have a shuriken for a ranged weapon (mobs and players alike laugh at me for this)

Yeah, it's just for pulling things.


- my buffs dont last longer than 60 secs if Im lucky enuff to get them off

Yeah, I dunno, 60 seconds feels okay to me. However, I really wish there were no set durations for anything in the game. Everything should scale to reward you for going deeper in a class. These buffs should have normal 'short' durations, Paladin Divine Favor/Might should too, and so on.


- It would make sense to buff before a fight but monks cant do that, maybe if I can get in about 50 solid hits I can give the party a very minor buff (SUPER LAME!!!)

Your Ki is set to your Concentration when you enter a quest. Get it higher to be able to do things 'fresh'.


The only reason I can still get invited in party's at all anymore is Im a half way decent player and can make what little this character can do work for a party. After 10 levels I sorta feel like Monks serve no purpose in a group and I could have built a rogue that would out perform him. I have some fun with my monk but many aspects of the class are just embarassing. Like when someone says "hit us with that fire/pos buff again" and I reply "I cant because there is nothing to beat on right now".

For a support melee class I can barely support anyone and my melee damage is laughable.......... but I have tons of fun solo.

I personally think it's your Finesse build, I've always felt great with my Monk. Of course I know I'm not doing as much DPS as other optimized characters, but I hold my own against the majority.


Monks need tons of love starting with better crit ranges and multipliers and immediately followed by fixing all the gear that is available to him (meaning better stuff and stuff that works)

Nah, Finesse just doesn't work well for DPS, everyone knows that. It works out on other characters because they can stat damage with their Rapiers, but Monks stat damaging handwraps are broken, don't have piercing, and the crit range isn't great.


Class is underwhelming and anti-climatic for the hype that was being generated for them.

My Monk is my favorite right now. Though really, I think things felt a little tough at 10 too, but that's when all characters hit a slow down.

[Demoyn]

Get a good concentration item and learn to use meditate more. It won't make a monk a great class, but it'll sure help with a lot of the issues you listed here.

[wiglin]

Against trash mobs I use +4 Maladroit of Weighted 3%. For most mobs, I can get to auto crits in 4 seconds. Then the mob is dead pretty quick. Unless someone is getting really lucky on their vorpal I can usually drop the mob before they go down to vorpal. Once they fix weakening on handwraps, I will turn on power attack instead of combat expertise and use weakening of weighted for even faster kills. Dropping the mobs to hit by 5 in the first flurry of blows, will make up for the lack of combat expertise and allow for more damage from power attack.

Here is my build
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172507

I am not a fan of str based monks, the 5 or so extra strength damage for me does not make up for the amount of damage you take in my opinion. when you get greater two weapon fighting you will get off 10 attacks in a couple of seconds while in a hasted wind stance. That will bring most regular mobs down to auto crits really fast. Having weighted on the wraps help as well. Since we attack so fast if procs quite often. From my experience, monks can excel in every part of the quest leading up to the rednamed.

I also carry the following dual kamas because sometime it is better to go with the synergy of the group: vorpal, wounder, and weakening.

Unbalancing strike works on rednames, so you will increase the dps of the party by using it. (if other members have any sneak attacks) Get the VOD goggles, and or halfling enhancements and you are doing decent dps as a dex build, all being completely self sufficient. I know alot of tanks that were the goggles, so when I land unbalancing strike on a mob, even if they have aggro they get 8 more damage per hit. As a halfling that stacks with halfling guile which for me adds 12 damage per hit. More if you take more of the guile enhancements.

As a monk I have full healing amplification and I uses fist of light, healing ki, and then a few potions. I have no need for scrolls or wands.

I am going to craft a ppp shuriken with true rez. Until then I am not worrying about raising people. I will also add healing amplification 30%, so I can equip it for drinking pots after a battle for less pot usage.

My AC is currently 55 unbuffed. When I get chattering (use with parrying handwraps) or insight on my dragontouched outfit that will put it to 59. Add in a barkskin pot and haste potion and you have 63 self buffed. Even while leveling if I drank a barkskin pot and used combat expertise I rarely took damage unless doing a quest way above my level.

I stay in wind stance and have two levels of crane. With weighted and dropping mobs to autocrit within seconds I always have enough ki. If I want to land stunning on tougher mobs, I switch to water stance. Once I get a +2 tome I will be at 30 wis, but even at 28 it lands decent enough. Although since mobs drop to auto crit so fast I find myself using stunning fist less and less. I may swap it out for another feat.

[feynman]

You're a monk; if you you don't have STR, you're not doing anything.

Few thoughts:

More STR

Use power attack to up your DPS

Ironweave robe out of VON is nice at that level, and will let you use chaosgarde

Higher + on weapons is as important as effects (adds to-hit as well as damage)

Crit-dependent effects (bursting, bone-breaking, etc) are less useful for monks

Fire stance generates ki faster; fill up and switch to wind stance

Monks have sub-par DPS, we know this. OTOH, sucky players have sub-par DPS, too, so just think of it as a harder difficulty level :)

[wiglin]

You're a monk; if you you don't have STR, you're not doing anything.

Few thoughts:

More STR

Use power attack to up your DPS

Ironweave robe out of VON is nice at that level, and will let you use chaosgarde

Higher + on weapons is as important as effects (adds to-hit as well as damage)

Crit-dependent effects (bursting, bone-breaking, etc) are less useful for monks

Fire stance generates ki faster; fill up and switch to wind stance

Monks have sub-par DPS, we know this. OTOH, sucky players have sub-par DPS, too, so just think of it as a harder difficulty level :)

Below is my opinion:

I would only go str based on an elf. All level ups into str, enhancements into dex, and use elf dragonmarks for displacement, but even then you end up being up to about 10 ac behind the dex based monk. The difference between 50 ac and 60 is very noticeable. Str based would increase damage by 6 damage per hit (+12 more strength), so 60 damage per round. (Power attack can be used by both builds so not included) The problem I have is that once you factor in drinking more pots do to the increase in damage taken, your dps actually goes down because of the time it takes to stay alive.

This can be offset somewhat by elf displacement dragonmarks, but that just adds one more clicky to the mix again slowing down your attack rate.

If you are relying purely on your cleric to heal you then sure you can do more damage, but I like to be self sufficient and not rely on other people to keep me alive.

[rimble]

Below is my opinion:

I would only go str based on an elf. All level ups into str, enhancements into dex, and use elf dragonmarks for displacement, but even then you end up being up to about 10 ac behind the dex based monk. The difference between 50 ac and 60 is very noticeable. Str based would increase damage by 6 damage per hit (+12 more strength), so 60 damage per round. (Power attack can be used by both builds so not included) The problem I have is that once you factor in drinking more pots do to the increase in damage taken, your dps actually goes down because of the time it takes to stay alive.

This can be offset somewhat by elf displacement dragonmarks, but that just adds one more clicky to the mix again slowing down your attack rate.

If you are relying purely on your cleric to heal you then sure you can do more damage, but I like to be self sufficient and not rely on other people to keep me alive.

Halflings work just fine too, they're only -1 damage against Elves, and I think the Dragonmarks are better too if you want to go that route...but since Monks really don't draw aggro and sneak attack alot, Halflings really end up +7 damage. There's also Unbalancing Strike and Radiance weapons and whatever other opportunities grant sneak attack.

The nice thing is that the Strength and Dexterity builds are really rather close to each other. By toggling PA/CE/Defensive Fighting and Fire/Air/Water stance you can juggle your DPS/AC scores around. I'm very very happy how my Halfling Strength/Fire Monk plays and the only thing I'd change would be to have raised Spot more (just for some quest stealthing fun).

I've tried a high AC non-Intimidate build before and found it very frustrating...all this AC, party dying around me, and nothing I can do about it. :( Not to mention I didn't have to take CE nor Weapon Finesse nor put 4 starting points into Int...:D

I'll try and post my build for discussion too in the next couple days, won't be able to tonight. I comment on others alot, so they should get a crack at me in return. :)

[feynman]

Below is my opinion:

I would only go str based on an elf.

I would only go monk on an elf :p


All level ups into str, enhancements into dex, and use elf dragonmarks for displacement, but even then you end up being up to about 10 ac behind the dex based monk.

No, you don't; -4 dex = 2AC, everything else is the same, unless you went halfling, in which case you are paying more to keep up in DPS. Oh and skip the dragonmarks.


The difference between 50 ac and 60 is very noticeable. Str based would increase damage by 6 damage per hit (+12 more strength), so 60 damage per round. (Power attack can be used by both builds so not included) The problem I have is that once you factor in drinking more pots do to the increase in damage taken, your dps actually goes down because of the time it takes to stay alive.

What calculation are you basing your numbers on? My monk can hit 30 in STR or DEX, or 28 WIS, depending on stance. My AC is, at most, 6 points below a max-dex, max-wis halfling (who will have exactly 0 DPS), or 4 points below a realistic finesse halfling (18 dex/16 wis), or 2 points below a finesse elf, or tied with a finesse human or dwarf.

With the correct AC calculation, the difference isn't so great, and you don't lose time drinking pots. You have an extra feat (no weapon finesse), more DPS, and more resistance to enfeebling/exhaustion/etc (remember that affects your AC when you become encumbered).


If you are relying purely on your cleric to heal you then sure you can do more damage, but I like to be self sufficient and not rely on other people to keep me alive.

Even without the cleric, curse of healing and the finisher are usually enough to keep my health up, and when it doesn't, I don't think that the 2 AC will make that big of a difference. In groups, the DPS is far more important, especially against bosses.

[wiglin]

The ac calculations were based on 5 CE but if I left out PA then I have to leave out CE. So that leave us comparing stance to stance. Fire Stance vs Wind Stance I also included rage in the str based, because unless you try to not get it it will get casted on you most of the time, and if you are strength base and are going for damage why would you not use potions anyway.

As an elf you will be at 26 dex with a +2tome -3 to ac
Rage -2 AC
Compared to a Halfling -1 AC
Compare PA to CE and PA gains 5 damage per hit over 5 ac.

but still comparing stance to stance that is 6 AC behind. Still quite a bit when you are at the breaking point of 50-60ac self buffed.

Their are times when I am chest soloing I do not drink a barkskin potion or use CE and the difference in getting hit from low 50s to upper 50s ac is quite noticeable. When surrounded by more than 2 mobs first of light will not maintain the healing. Now in a party situation if you are flanking it doesn't matter as much, but I do not like to be dependent on others. I like to zerg ahead and not wait.

My build is easy to find. You can see the damage calculations. The dex build will be 6 points of damage behind per hit, that equals 60 damage more over 1 round of attack animations. Considering non-rednames are auto critted after a few seconds, that does not make a huge difference in dps. The wind stance is also hitting faster, so even if the sun stance is using maladroit the wind stance monk will get to auto crits faster causing the dps gap to close a little more.

Base Damage: Wind (With Sneak Attack)
2-16 2d8
5 Stat
5 Weapon
6 Enh
8 Goggles
-------------------
26-40 +Element +Bane x 10 Attacks / Round 260-400 +holy or greater bane.
Double that after a few seconds and add bloodstone for auto crit. 380-920 +holy or greater bane
That is not 0 dps and is only 60-120 damage per animation behind the sun stance, and that is before element and or bane damage.

When weakening is fixed, I will switch to weakening of weighted and turn on power attack.

Rednames is where the str based monks gain in an increase in dps. Now this is really where it matters for most hardcore gamers, and since when fighting most rednames mass heals are used, taking damage does matter as much if you have enough hitpoints to hang in the fight, so str based wins out here.

Again this is my opinion, but I would take the increase in saves and ac over 6 points of damage. To each their own, but to say a finesse monk is far behind a str monk in the dps dept is not correct. It would only be correct if we stood their with plain +1 handwraps and did not use any of the tools at our disposal.

[rimble]

Again this is my opinion, but I would take the increase in saves and ac over 6 points of damage. To each their own, but to say a finesse monk is far behind a str monk in the dps dept is not correct. It would only be correct if we stood their with plain +1 handwraps and did not use any of the tools at our disposal.

I don't have a problem with either build, though as mentioned I really do like how my Strength Halfling plays. Just wanted to say that the DPS is more difficult than this to compare, for example in Fire Stance I can spam Earth 3/Earth 2/Earth 1 strikes practically non-stop (as long as I'm getting hits in to build up my ki). That's +8 Damage + 2d6 Acid, +8 Damage, +4 Damage...that is applied at some varying hard as hell to calculate rate...not to mention cranking out QP's, SF's, and other buffs/moves quicker. Like most things, there's just so much to the build it's not fair to either to attempt a simple comparison.

[wiglin]

I don't have a problem with either build, though as mentioned I really do like how my Strength Halfling plays. Just wanted to say that the DPS is more difficult than this to compare, for example in Fire Stance I can spam Earth 3/Earth 2/Earth 1 strikes practically non-stop (as long as I'm getting hits in to build up my ki). That's +8 Damage + 2d6 Acid, +8 Damage, +4 Damage...that is applied at some varying hard as hell to calculate rate...not to mention cranking out QP's, SF's, and other buffs/moves quicker. Like most things, there's just so much to the build it's not fair to either to attempt a simple comparison.

I agree. It comes down to preference. I am thinking of swapping out some halfling luck for all 3 tiers of earth stance for that same reason.

[Goldeneye]

I know the problem you took more then two levels of monk :)
Welcome to the greatest splash class ever

[rimble]

I agree. It comes down to preference. I am thinking of swapping out some halfling luck for all 3 tiers of earth stance for that same reason.

Right now I have all three tiers of Fire, Water, and Earth.

Normal (DPS) Mode is Fire Stance + Power Attack w/ Earth Strikes (and Fists of Light as appropriate)--you can get the Earth Strikes to double-hit when timed right.

Defensive Mode is Water Stance + Defensive Fighting w/ me running in circles :D

[wiglin]

I know the problem you took more then two levels of monk :)
Welcome to the greatest splash class ever

No arguments their, but for me Monk is the only reason I reactivated my account. Figure I'll stick with it and see what happens.

[wiglin]

Right now I have all three tiers of Fire, Water, and Earth.

Normal (DPS) Mode is Fire Stance + Power Attack w/ Earth Strikes (and Fists of Light as appropriate).

Defensive Mode is Water Stance + Defensive Fighting w/ me running in circles :D

I stay in wind stance most of the time. Non-rednames are dead pretty quick.

Maladroit to auto crit, unbalancing strike always lands from lowering the reflex save, now I get full damage when facing the mob. Now I have lots of Ki to QP and SF other mobs when facing more than one.

[gysot89]

dude, i dont see how ur having the problems ur having

i have a lv 11 halfling monk right now, barkskin+haste i run 51AC

i can almost NEVER spend my KI fast enough, and mind you i am a dex based AC build if you havn't guessed....

i love the monk, and while i do no DPS right now dual lightning strike kamas (or some other shroud weapon) will dramadicaly increase my DPS output because of the imensly fast swinging....

just tweek ur monk man :D

[Kintro]

I use power attack, halfling guile and backstabber gloves/goggles of intuition combined with unbalancing strike and Deception handwraps to increase DPS. Monks hasted in wind stance also get 130 swings per minute compared to 118 for a tempest ranger.

The weapons are bad but there are ways you can improve the situation.

[feynman]

The ac calculations were based on 5 CE but if I left out PA then I have to leave out CE. So that leave us comparing stance to stance. Fire Stance vs Wind Stance I also included rage in the str based, because unless you try to not get it it will get casted on you most of the time, and if you are strength base and are going for damage why would you not use potions anyway.

As an elf you will be at 26 dex with a +2tome -3 to ac
Rage -2 AC
Compared to a Halfling -1 AC
Compare PA to CE and PA gains 5 damage per hit over 5 ac.

but still comparing stance to stance that is 6 AC behind. Still quite a bit when you are at the breaking point of 50-60ac self buffed.

Their are times when I am chest soloing I do not drink a barkskin potion or use CE and the difference in getting hit from low 50s to upper 50s ac is quite noticeable. When surrounded by more than 2 mobs first of light will not maintain the healing. Now in a party situation if you are flanking it doesn't matter as much, but I do not like to be dependent on others. I like to zerg ahead and not wait.

My build is easy to find. You can see the damage calculations. The dex build will be 6 points of damage behind per hit, that equals 60 damage more over 1 round of attack animations. Considering non-rednames are auto critted after a few seconds, that does not make a huge difference in dps. The wind stance is also hitting faster, so even if the sun stance is using maladroit the wind stance monk will get to auto crits faster causing the dps gap to close a little more.

Base Damage: Wind (With Sneak Attack)
2-16 2d8
5 Stat
5 Weapon
6 Enh
8 Goggles
-------------------
26-40 +Element +Bane x 10 Attacks / Round 260-400 +holy or greater bane
Double that after a few seconds and add bloodstone for auto crit. 380-920 +holy or greater bane
That is not 0 dps and is only 60 damage per animation behind the sun stance.

When weakening is fixed, I will switch to weakening of weighted and turn on power attack.

Rednames is where the str based monks gain in an increase in dps. Now this is really where it matters for most hardcore gamers, and since when fighting most rednames mass heals are used, taking damage does matter as much if you have enough hitpoints to hang in the fight, so str based wins out here.

Again this is my opinion, but I would take the increase in saves and ac over 6 points of damage. To each their own, but to say a finesse monk is far behind a str monk in the dps dept is not correct. It would only be correct if we stood their with plain +1 handwraps and did not use any of the tools at our disposal.

OK, the big problem here is that we seem to have different ideas about what builds we are talking about. May I suggest that, since we both have capped monks, we post our exact builds, and compare on the assumption that we have built reasonably good examples of strength and dexterity builds, respectively?

Mine:

Stat (starting) (base) (@16) (w/stance)

STR (16)(20)(27)(30)
DEX (16)(19)(27)(30)
CON (12)(14)(18)(20)
INT (8)(8)(8)
WIS (16)(17)(26)(29)
CHA (8)(8)(12)

Feats: Power Attack, Stunning Blow, Dodge, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC: bludgeoning, Toughness (x3), path of harmonious balance

This is with tomes: +1 str, +3 dex, +2 con, +1 wis

I have two observations that influence my opinion: The first is that, having been in hundreds of raids with other monks and discussing or overhearing build details, that strength builds help the group more, and the raid will be faster and (IMO, anyway) more fun. Perhaps they are not as survivable, but I play a cleric, too, and it seems to balance out, healing-wise.

The second observation is that I have a pretty good chance of getting into groups excluding monks from the lfm if I send a tell to the leader saying "I am a strength build." Just sayin'.


I know the problem you took more then two levels of monk :)
Welcome to the greatest splash class ever

And the second level is arguable :p

[wiglin]

OK, the big problem here is that we seem to have different ideas about what builds we are talking about. May I suggest that, since we both have capped monks, we post our exact builds, and compare on the assumption that we have built reasonably good examples of strength and dexterity builds, respectively?

Mine:

Stat (starting) (base) (@16) (w/stance)

STR (16)(20)(27)(30)
DEX (16)(19)(27)(30)
CON (12)(14)(18)(20)
INT (8)(8)(8)
WIS (16)(17)(26)(29)
CHA (8)(8)(12)

Feats: Power Attack, Stunning Blow, Dodge, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC: bludgeoning, Toughness (x3), path of harmonious balance

This is with tomes: +1 str, +3 dex, +2 con, +1 wis

I have two observations that influence my opinion: The first is that, having been in hundreds of raids with other monks and discussing or overhearing build details, that strength builds help the group more, and the raid will be faster and (IMO, anyway) more fun. Perhaps they are not as survivable, but I play a cleric, too, and it seems to balance out, healing-wise.

The second observation is that I have a pretty good chance of getting into groups excluding monks from the lfm if I send a tell to the leader saying "I am a strength build." Just sayin'.



And the second level is arguable :p

Here is my build
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172507

I am pasting stats for wind stance since essentially the comparison was between wind stance and fire stance.

Stats: Wind
Str: 20 +5 (12Base +2Tome +6Item) I still need a +2 tome here.
Dex: 32 +11(16Base +1Tome +2Enhancement +4level +6Item +3Stance)
Con: 18 +4 (13Base +1Tome +6Item -2Stance)
Int: 14 +2 (13Base +1Tome)
Wis: 28 +9 (16Base +2Tome +3Enh +6Item) I still need a +2 tome here.
Cha: 8


Ac: Wind
10 Base
12 Dex
6 Armor (DT)
2 Dodge (Chaos Bracers)
5 Protection
4 Centered
9 Wis
1 Racial
5 Combat Expertise
1 Dodge Feet
1 Ritual
4 Insight (DT) I do not have this yet
-------------------
60 Before Buffs (This can vary a couple of points depending on equipment layout)

3 Natural (Barkskin Pot)
1 Haste
3 Dodge (Chattering Ring) I do not have this yet
-------------------
67 Self Buffed

4 Shield (no umd, so 1 minute clickies are situational at most)
-------------------
71 Self Buffed

Centered Attack Bonus:
16 Base (Flurry of Blows)
11 Stat
4 GH
1 Haste
1 Racial
1-5 Weapon
-5 CE
+2 Tumbleweed
-------------------
31-40 No CE
26-35 w/ CE

10 Flank Bonus (2Normal, 3Enh, 5Goggles)
-------------------
41-50 No CE
36-45 w/ CE

Base Damage: Wind (With Sneak Attack)
2-16 2d8
5 Stat
5 Weapon
6 Enh
8 Goggles
-------------------
26-40 +Element +Bane x 10 Attacks / Round

Feats:
1: TWF / Monk: Dodge
2: Weapon Finesse
3: Tougness / Monk: WoHB
6: Combat Expertise / Monk: Stunning Fist
9: ITWF
12: IC: Bludgeoning
15: GTWF
18: Power Attack (no tome yet, so waiting until mod 9)

For non rednames, I stick to my maladroit of weighted. (Unless dual vorpals or wounding synergizes with what the party is doing) While in a hasted wind stance not only does the weighted 3% proc often, but the mob will be at auto critts fairly quick. Once that happens I have nailed unbalancing stike for full sneak attack and doing double damage from crits.

Rednames, you will win out everytime for pure dps, especially when a cleric is mass healing. I was planning on a second monk and making it a str based elf, but after seeing the breaking point for ac on my current monk I just couldn't see maintaining the dps unless I was being dependent on the cleric. That is why I thought about adding two levels of dragonmarks for displacement to help offset the lower ac. Of course by going your route and being a little more balanced you do open up the option of switching to wind stance for more ac.

As far as getting groups. I do not pug raids, (except for reaver) but for normal parties I do not have any issues getting groups.

I will say that most monks I have been in a party with would make me not want to ever have a monk in my party again.

[Aeneas]

Big monks also deserve a rant.

[negative]

Ya know, I was just thinking about this the other day.

I have a capped Str Fire halfling monk. GTWF, unarmed. In stance, something like 30 Str, 26 Dex, 24 Wis, 22 Con, and no CE (though this thread has inspired me to play with defensive fighting more) so my experiance is from the fire stance side of things.

I have always assumed that as far as ki goes, air stance monks would be getting almost as much as I do because they attack faster. Reading this thread, that may not be the case. I'll get back to that later.

Point is, I'm str based, and my AC isn't so hot. I don't rely on it. And my reflex save isn't as high as a dex based. If I were to build a finesse version of my build, I'd change my starting stats to 12 str 18 dex 16 wis, and get CE as well as power attack and use air stance most of the time. Assuming equal Ki usuage, every calculation I run, before factoring in air stance the fire stance monk is only 11% ahead in DPS. Depending on what speed boost air stance actually gives, and if there is a tier 4 stance, the air monk will equal or surpass the dps of the fire monk, while having better AC and reflex saves.

However, like I said before, I migth be wrong to think an air monk will have unlimited Ki like my fire monk. And that could make a big difference. Although, when I try to spam earth strike/fire strike/fists of light one after another, I seem to attack slower than if I just hold right click. Maybe it's the way I'm using my hotbars, but it's a noticable slowdown, so I've begun to not spam the strikes one after another.

The point I'm getting at, is that in my experiance, the only real difference between a air monk and fire monk's dps is going to be how often you can use those elemental strikes.

I'm glad to see some propoents of fire stance in this thread though. It has reduced my desire to reroll a little. I kinda think fire stance needs a little dps boost though. A str monk's dps (which fires stance tends towards) should be better than a dex monk's. I don't want to change it, but air stances speed boost seems too good right now.

Edit1: as far as the op goes, it sounds like he has an issue with a very low concentration.

Edit2: I just did an Ac calc to compare my current Str/Fire monk build against my planned Dex/Air monk. The difference is only 4 AC, both in AC mode and DPS mode, assuming both switch focus in the same situation. That said, I think the Dex/Air loses a lot less DPS in the swtich, because you keep the speed boost from air, only changing from PA to CE, while the Str/Fire monk both switches from PA to DF as well as losing 5 STR from switching from Fire to Water.

For the record, I still think the fire monk edges out the air monk in DPS, but only by a small margin.

[feynman]

Here is my build
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172507

I am pasting stats for wind stance since essentially the comparison was between wind stance and fire stance.

Stats: Wind
Str: 20 +5 (12Base +2Tome +6Item) I still need a +2 tome here.
Dex: 32 +11(16Base +1Tome +2Enhancement +4level +6Item +3Stance)
Con: 18 +4 (13Base +1Tome +6Item -2Stance)
Int: 14 +2 (13Base +1Tome)
Wis: 28 +9 (16Base +2Tome +3Enh +6Item) I still need a +2 tome here.
Cha: 8


Ac: Wind
10 Base
12 Dex
6 Armor (DT)
2 Dodge (Chaos Bracers)
5 Protection
4 Centered
9 Wis
1 Racial
5 Combat Expertise
1 Dodge Feet
1 Ritual
4 Insight (DT) I do not have this yet
-------------------
60 Before Buffs (This can vary a couple of points depending on equipment layout)

3 Natural (Barkskin Pot)
1 Haste
3 Dodge (Chattering Ring) I do not have this yet
-------------------
67 Self Buffed

4 Shield (no umd, so 1 minute clickies are situational at most)
-------------------
71 Self Buffed

Centered Attack Bonus:
16 Base (Flurry of Blows)
11 Stat
4 GH
1 Haste
1 Racial
1-5 Weapon
-5 CE
+2 Tumbleweed
-------------------
31-40 No CE
26-35 w/ CE

10 Flank Bonus (2Normal, 3Enh, 5Goggles)
-------------------
41-50 No CE
36-45 w/ CE

Base Damage: Wind (With Sneak Attack)
2-16 2d8
5 Stat
5 Weapon
6 Enh
8 Goggles
-------------------
26-40 +Element +Bane x 10 Attacks / Round

Feats:
1: TWF / Monk: Dodge
2: Weapon Finesse
3: Tougness / Monk: WoHB
6: Combat Expertise / Monk: Stunning Fist
9: ITWF
12: IC: Bludgeoning
15: GTWF
18: Power Attack (no tome yet, so waiting until mod 9)

For non rednames, I stick to my maladroit of weighted. (Unless dual vorpals or wounding synergizes with what the party is doing) While in a hasted wind stance not only does the weighted 3% proc often, but the mob will be at auto critts fairly quick. Once that happens I have nailed unbalancing stike for full sneak attack and doing double damage from crits.

Rednames, you will win out everytime for pure dps, especially when a cleric is mass healing. I was planning on a second monk and making it a str based elf, but after seeing the breaking point for ac on my current monk I just couldn't see maintaining the dps unless I was being dependent on the cleric. That is why I thought about adding two levels of dragonmarks for displacement to help offset the lower ac. Of course by going your route and being a little more balanced you do open up the option of switching to wind stance for more ac.

As far as getting groups. I do not pug raids, (except for reaver) but for normal parties I do not have any issues getting groups.

I will say that most monks I have been in a party with would make me not want to ever have a monk in my party again.

OK, we're on the same wavelength, now. I guess my ultimate criticism is that the difficult part of almost every quest/raid in the game is the boss; fighting your way through trash mobs is rarely a problem, other than trying to conserve SP, but even that is rarely an issue.

Of course, it may be as simple as the fact that I PUG more often than not, and end-game, I don't need dragonmarks because someone has blur (or I use air-pos-air finisher), and the cleric would rather heal me a little more and finish the fight faster, rather than have me dancing around while he has to heal everyone else, anyway, and he winds up using more SP.

I definitely agree about most other monks sucking, although I save my greatest scorn for dump-STR builds; yea, they don't get hit and can take out trash mobs (eventually) with stuns, etc, but they might as well be cheerleaders for all the good they do against the boss. You need at least enough for PA.

[wiglin]

OK, we're on the same wavelength, now. I guess my ultimate criticism is that the difficult part of almost every quest/raid in the game is the boss; fighting your way through trash mobs is rarely a problem, other than trying to conserve SP, but even that is rarely an issue.

Of course, it may be as simple as the fact that I PUG more often than not, and end-game, I don't need dragonmarks because someone has blur (or I use air-pos-air finisher), and the cleric would rather heal me a little more and finish the fight faster, rather than have me dancing around while he has to heal everyone else, anyway, and he winds up using more SP.

I definitely agree about most other monks sucking, although I save my greatest scorn for dump-STR builds; yea, they don't get hit and can take out trash mobs (eventually) with stuns, etc, but they might as well be cheerleaders for all the good they do against the boss. You need at least enough for PA.

I agree. Strength should not be a dump stat. I only started with a 12 on my monk because I knew halfling guile would help make up for the damage, and I wanted enough skills points for full stealth. This was for pure flavor. I will get PA when the level cap gets raised. I especially look forward to weakening being fixed, so I can go PA the whole way and still get trash mobs to auto crit without taking damage.

[negative]

I agree. Strength should not be a dump stat. I only started with a 12 on my monk because I knew halfling guile would help make up for the damage, and I wanted enough skills points for full stealth. This was for pure flavor. I will get PA when the level cap gets raised. I especially look forward to weakening being fixed, so I can go PA the whole way and still get trash mobs to auto crit without taking damage.
We disagree on other things, but I would agree, for non-halfing dex monks, 14 STR is the most you can afford without messing up you other stats on a monk. That means 12 STR on a dex halfling.