ADQ Pugging Etiquette

[Kintro]

I was up late last night and looking for something to do when I came across a couple of LFMs, the first was:

"Zawabi's Revenge": Raid starting in 30mins, zerg prereqs see PlayerX

The second was by PlayerX for Chains of Flame, ADQ then Queen. Brilliant, I thought, that's exactly what my sorc needs. So I join up and we run through CoF and ADQ. At the end of ADQ we're informed that more of the raid organisers guildies had just signed on and priority for places in the raid would be given to them. Basically having helped them through prereqs we weren't going to be able to do the all important last 15mins.

Needless to say we were slightly miffed. Is this something people find acceptable/reasonable?

[Lithic]

Sucks they didnt say so in the beginning, but its not like you lost out on the flagging.

And anyway EVERY level 16 with decent gear can solo those quests, especially a sorc. Raid too if you are carefull.

[Aranticus]

I was up late last night and looking for something to do when I came across a couple of LFMs, the first was:

"Zawabi's Revenge": Raid starting in 30mins, zerg prereqs see PlayerX

The second was by PlayerX for Chains of Flame, ADQ then Queen. Brilliant, I thought, that's exactly what my sorc needs. So I join up and we run through CoF and ADQ. At the end of ADQ we're informed that more of the raid organisers guildies had just signed on and priority for places in the raid would be given to them. Basically having helped them through prereqs we weren't going to be able to do the all important last 15mins.

Needless to say we were slightly miffed. Is this something people find acceptable/reasonable?

most L16s should be able to solo any part of the dq chain. my guild have been doing alot more dq these days and its not uncommon for us to solo chains and wiz king while waiting for guildies to finish their stuff. dq1 is easy, 1 person take 1 tunnel each, done in 5 mins

[Kintro]

most L16s should be able to solo any part of the dq chain. my guild have been doing alot more dq these days and its not uncommon for us to solo chains and wiz king while waiting for guildies to finish their stuff. dq1 is easy, 1 person take 1 tunnel each, done in 5 mins

Exactly. I didn't need them for the prereqs, they didn't need me. The pug was for the raid which is why I joined. That and the convenience of having at least 5 other people who were ready and willing to go.

[Aranticus]

nvm

[Kintro]

inconsistent

Fine, I'll rephrase. The pug was for quests that included the raid which is why I joined.

[Junts]

I was up late last night and looking for something to do when I came across a couple of LFMs, the first was:

"Zawabi's Revenge": Raid starting in 30mins, zerg prereqs see PlayerX

The second was by PlayerX for Chains of Flame, ADQ then Queen. Brilliant, I thought, that's exactly what my sorc needs. So I join up and we run through CoF and ADQ. At the end of ADQ we're informed that more of the raid organisers guildies had just signed on and priority for places in the raid would be given to them. Basically having helped them through prereqs we weren't going to be able to do the all important last 15mins.

Needless to say we were slightly miffed. Is this something people find acceptable/reasonable?



This was my raid; what happened was that the person leading the flagging chain didn't give me the accurate number of non-guildies in his group, so I over-filled (I was also accepting puggers straight into the raid group, and there were two adq groups in progress); it was the kind of miscommunication that happens when you're trying to coordinate 3 separate groups of people and people are swapping between them (like the guy running chains for orb but already flagged and not doing adq ... so an extra person gets into adq who theres not a spot for..etc)

excluding the person from your guild (was there more than one? i was only told there was one) wasn't intentional and one of my guildies dropped to give them a place; they refused my invitation.

[Kadran]

inconsistent

How so?

"The second was by PlayerX for Chains of Flame, ADQ then Queen."

Maybe you missed the part where it said then Queen. I find booting people for guildies is really low. I understand that you play with your guildies because they're your friends and such, but you've made a commitment to the people that joined your group that you will do your best to lead them threw the agreed quest(s). They have also made the same commitment to you. That's why no one likes it when people bail halfway threw a series, but we've all heard the excuse, "Sorry, guild calls."

I find this behavior sneaky and low, but it wouldn't stop me from grouping with them (unless it heppened constantly.)

[Kadran]

This was my raid; what happened was that the person leading the flagging chain didn't give me the accurate number of non-guildies in his group, so I over-filled (I was also accepting puggers straight into the raid group, and there were two adq groups in progress); it was the kind of miscommunication that happens when you're trying to coordinate 3 separate groups of people and people are swapping between them (like the guy running chains for orb but already flagged and not doing adq ... so an extra person gets into adq who theres not a spot for..etc)

excluding the person from your guild (was there more than one? i was only told there was one) wasn't intentional and one of my guildies dropped to give them a place; they refused my invitation.

This seems perfectly reasonable. It was a complete miscommunication and unintentional. I can certainly see how this could happen, and even though it sucks, there are only so many spots the game will allow you to fill. Someone had to be cut. =/

[Whippy]

This was my raid; what happened was that the person leading the flagging chain didn't give me the accurate number of non-guildies in his group, so I over-filled (I was also accepting puggers straight into the raid group, and there were two adq groups in progress); it was the kind of miscommunication that happens when you're trying to coordinate 3 separate groups of people and people are swapping between them (like the guy running chains for orb but already flagged and not doing adq ... so an extra person gets into adq who theres not a spot for..etc)

excluding the person from your guild (was there more than one? i was only told there was one) wasn't intentional and one of my guildies dropped to give them a place; they refused my invitation.

LOL i appreciate that confusion/mistakes happen, but which part of how many people were in a full group needed to be communicated lol? He had his lfm up with yours, I assume you then saw it go down as you still had one up for the raid, meaning it was full, full being 6 people, as ever, leaving room for yourself and 5 more :) Not really rocket science :p

[Kintro]

This was my raid; what happened was that the person leading the flagging chain didn't give me the accurate number of non-guildies in his group, so I over-filled (I was also accepting puggers straight into the raid group, and there were two adq groups in progress); it was the kind of miscommunication that happens when you're trying to coordinate 3 separate groups of people and people are swapping between them (like the guy running chains for orb but already flagged and not doing adq ... so an extra person gets into adq who theres not a spot for..etc)

excluding the person from your guild (was there more than one? i was only told there was one) wasn't intentional and one of my guildies dropped to give them a place; they refused my invitation.

Ah-hah, I can see how that would happen. There were two from my guild and one from another in our ADQ group. The only explanation we were given at the time was that "more guildies who're flagged have logged on, they'll be getting priority for places in the raid".

It'll all be a lot easier come mod 9: form raid, split into two groups, reform after ADQ. Save a lot of the headaches associated with this quest chain.

[Junts]

LOL i appreciate that confusion/mistakes happen, but which part of how many people were in a full group needed to be communicated lol? He had his lfm up with yours, I assume you then saw it go down as you still had one up for the raid, meaning it was full, full being 6 people, as ever, leaving room for yourself and 5 more :) Not really rocket science :p



yeah but more something like this ..


feldir's running chains->adq, with 2 more guildies running oob before joining him for adq, meanwhile, 2 sabbat guys are already running adq on their own and end up holding the instance in case of overflow; 1 of the guildies in feldir's group is just getting a free orb becfause his alt is on ZR, and another is doing it for a free orb before switching for adq .. meanwhile, I have 3 guildies (including myself) and one pugger in the main raid group.

since Feldir was supposed to only have 4 people doing cof (and ended up with more), we ended up with overflow; one of the people doing oob had to join the sabbat group, which was around the time I realized we were overbooked :)

when you have 4 separate groups in separate instances its pretty easy for the people int hosegroups to go 'oh, hey, I've got a spot, sure', when they don't (and worse, when they don't communicate their numbers to the person organizing it all)

I in the end gave preference to guildies sinced it was a lot easier than trying to figure out if x guildie joined my group at 9:47 and whether or not that was before or after feldir had accepted pugger y or pugger z.



the funny part is that bronco tried to drop to give a spot to one of the **** people (the one I knew about), who refused, and twe then ended uprunning w/ 11 people because feldir forgot to reset adq and wasn't actually on the raid :P

this is why there's a big thread about dq permaflagging, by the way

[Samadhi]

Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in.

Now, I personally have never taken this to the extreme of "Please leave the dungeon I want to replace you." However, in the form of raid organization, I have definitely had people click the LFM and accepted - group not full yet - and said "sorry man had some guildies log on I need a your spot."

Some people might find this rude; and I have gotten an really nasty tell because of it - once. I'm always up front about explaining the situation though, and the majority have been very understanding about it.

I guess, when it comes down to it, would you want to be in a guild that didn't put you first?

[Bronko]

LOL i appreciate that confusion/mistakes happen, but which part of how many people were in a full group needed to be communicated lol? He had his lfm up with yours, I assume you then saw it go down as you still had one up for the raid, meaning it was full, full being 6 people, as ever, leaving room for yourself and 5 more :) Not really rocket science :p

Mistakes happen. They happen all the time. I apologize if there was any confusion but Jaerlach did a great job considering the circumstances. I'm sure we can all agree that trying to move/fight/cast while coordinating things between tells, guild chat, and party chat can make things even more difficult for any player that's just trying to play and have fun.

As Jaer stated, I dropped from that raid group to create enough spots for the Southern Tenants Farmers Union players that had been running the pre-quests with us. I would rather have given up on doing a DQ raid than have bad feelings between any of your guild members and THAC0. But after your guildmate repeatedly declined invitations to the raid group and typed some rather disparaging remarks about THAC0 into general chat we gave up and I rejoined the group to complete the raid shorthanded. No names will be mentioned in the forums, of course...

There is NO rule in THAC0 stating that you must run with guildies first and at the expense of others. That may be how some individual members run their groups but there is no obligation to do so. I can also appreciate that a lot of other guilds run things that way but that's certainly not how I roll. This particular incident was a simple case of an organizational mix-up that Jaerlach tried to fix in good faith. If it will smooth things over I pledge to host a DQ raid with full flagging for up to 11 members of the Southern Tenants Farmers Union at a time/date of your choosing. All I ask is that everyone put this behind them and try to remember that this is just a game.

[BlackSteel]

altho even my barb is capable of doing the prereqs w/o a problem, I'd still be miffed from helping someone with them and then being booted for the raid.

I'm sorry guildiees or no, thats just rude. Their guildiees should have been running the prereq's with them then, or they shouldnt have advertised the whole chain.

[Junts]

altho even my barb is capable of doing the prereqs w/o a problem, I'd still be miffed from helping someone with them and then being booted for the raid.

I'm sorry guildiees or no, thats just rude. Their guildiees should have been running the prereq's with them then, or they shouldnt have advertised the whole chain.

you know how dq is; some people are on the raid, some people need one of the quests before adq,. some people just need adq, and any number of the adq/raid people want tolog their alts for the flagging for free flagging pieces so it can be more confusing next time!

one guy ran one toon for cof, another for adq and a third for the raid!


we had so many multiflagged people we could have done two 9-man runs of the raid, since 5 or so of the people in my run were flagged on multiple toons; maybe we should have just done that

[Kintro]

Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in.

Now, I personally have never taken this to the extreme of "Please leave the dungeon I want to replace you." However, in the form of raid organization, I have definitely had people click the LFM and accepted - group not full yet - and said "sorry man had some guildies log on I need a your spot."

Some people might find this rude; and I have gotten an really nasty tell because of it - once. I'm always up front about explaining the situation though, and the majority have been very understanding about it.

I guess, when it comes down to it, would you want to be in a guild that didn't put you first?

So lets say you're pugging von 1-4. When you finish part 2 a guildie logs on who needs 3-4. You'd then drop the pugs in order to take your guildie instead? That's what it appeared was happening here and no I wouldn't want to be in a guild who made that a common practice.

I didn't receive any tells or invites after being dropped from the ADQ group, I will have to ask my guildie about that next time I see him on.

[Whippy]

Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in.

Now, I personally have never taken this to the extreme of "Please leave the dungeon I want to replace you." However, in the form of raid organization, I have definitely had people click the LFM and accepted - group not full yet - and said "sorry man had some guildies log on I need a your spot."

Some people might find this rude; and I have gotten an really nasty tell because of it - once. I'm always up front about explaining the situation though, and the majority have been very understanding about it.

I guess, when it comes down to it, would you want to be in a guild that didn't put you first?

Noone is saying don't put your guildies first, I always put mine first of course, just saying if you have already partied others up for something don't bail on them, thats all! Especially people that you have run with a bunch.



Mistakes happen. They happen all the time. I apologize if there was any confusion but Jaerlach did a great job considering the circumstances. I'm sure we can all agree that trying to move/fight/cast while coordinating things between tells, guild chat, and party chat can make things even more difficult for any player that's just trying to play and have fun.

As Jaer stated, I dropped from that raid group to create enough spots for the Southern Tenants Farmers Union players that had been running the pre-quests with us. I would rather have given up on doing a DQ raid than have bad feelings between any of your guild members and THAC0. But after your guildmate repeatedly declined invitations to the raid group and typed some rather disparaging remarks about THAC0 into general chat we gave up and I rejoined the group to complete the raid shorthanded. No names will be mentioned in the forums, of course...

There is NO rule in THAC0 stating that you must run with guildies first and at the expense of others. That may be how some individual members run their groups but there is no obligation to do so. I can also appreciate that a lot of other guilds run things that way but that's certainly not how I roll. This particular incident was a simple case of an organizational mix-up that Jaerlach tried to fix in good faith. If it will smooth things over I pledge to host a DQ raid with full flagging for up to 11 members of the Southern Tenants Farmers Union at a time/date of your choosing. All I ask is that everyone put this behind them and try to remember that this is just a game.


This thread was started as a discussion of etiquette, not as a dig, your guild wasn't even mentioned, noone wanted to start an arguement or dig at you guys. I don't know what was said by the guild member you are saying said bad stuff, I will ask about that when I see the other person, we are acknowledging that mistakes happen, we were merely stating it wasn't a great thing to do. You obviously agree with this as you made the kind gesture of dropping. I guess the 3 people at the time who missed out weren't told the whole story and that is the problem, a simple i'm sorry and explanation at the time i am sure would have been enough to passify the disappointment. Like you say lets just put it behind us and hope this type of stuff will no longer happen under the new no flagging system.

[Samadhi]

So lets say you're pugging von 1-4. When you finish part 2 a guildie logs on who needs 3-4. You'd then drop the pugs in order to take your guildie instead? That's what it appeared was happening here and no I wouldn't want to be in a guild who made that a common practice.

I didn't receive any tells or invites after being dropped from the ADQ group, I will have to ask my guildie about that next time I see him on.

In theory, yes, absolutely.

In reality, the situation wouldn't come up much because
1) I rarely PUG anything but raids, but rather short-man and leave open party spaces for when guildies do log on
2) I will usually state in guild chat "we can drop a PUG for you if you want" to specify the situation - and 95%+ of the time the guildie's response is "don't worry about it."
3) Can't even remember the last time I saw the VoN's outside of leveling. :D

Since as Whippy pointed out, though, the thread was started about the Etiquette - not the actual circumstances - I don't mind elaborating on the theory. When you are not actively in quest: what is the difference between saying "Hey I need one spot for a guildie does someone mind dropping" any different than saying "hey doesn't look like we will be able to finish this series afterall good luck all" and reforming without someone? The second happens far more often, true enough, but IMO, the first option is more honest and up front. [I do want to emphasize that I am NOT talking about bailing during a quest.] How is that considered in bad form? I'm not trying to bait anyone - it's just a piece of logic I don't understand.

[Mr_Ed7]

This is a no brainer. I do not know what all the posts are about but what happened was a complete pile of stinking MINOTAUR DUNG!

Not cool.

Please send me a tell so I can get the name of the guild so I can know about their BAIT & SWITCH TACTICS!

[Bronko]

This is a no brainer. I do not know what all the posts are about but what happened was a complete pile of stinking MINOTAUR DUNG!

Not cool.

Please send me a tell so I can get the name of the guild so I can know about their BAIT & SWITCH TACTICS!

Please review your own words which I have highlighted in red.

I would suggest you read the ENTIRE thread first before coming to any conclusions Sicarii. The guild was mine. That's THAC0 with a zero. It has already been stated by Junts and myself. It is only a "no brainer" to post an inflammatory reply at the end of a thread with detailed explanations occurring across several posts and then ask for a guild name. The fact that you did not pick up on the fact that we are talking about THAC0 should be a clear indicator that you are not congnizant of the discussion and are posting a reply that is uniformed as best. Bad form good sir.



Since as Whippy pointed out, though, the thread was started about the Etiquette - not the actual circumstances - I don't mind elaborating on the theory....

Please excuse me if you feel you are being quoted out of context Samadhi (it won't be the first time you corrected me ;)), but this was the only point I felt needed to be highlighted from your last comment and it has also be stated in replies by a few others.

I can appreciate general discussions on theoretical topics but the is no doubt in my mind that the specifics of this run are what spawned the debate. While I don't see this as an attack on my guild per se I do want to make sure any veiled allegations are either confirmed and resolved (as Junts has done here) or appropriately denied and debunked. Junts promptly posted his explanation for what happened, took responsibility for the misunderstanding, and gave what I feel is a fair apology. I have never held, nor do I now hold, any hard feelings towards Misscarlet and the crew in Southern Tenant Farmers Union. I would hope that after this thread finally gets put to rest that the feeling would be mutual.




FYI to all: I have spoken to Misscarlet through the PM system and as far as I'm concerned the issues surrounding this specific incident have been addressed. If I'm wrong on the that I'm sure he will correct me on the matter and I will happily accept it. :)

Let's get back to playing some DDO!!! :D

[wumpustime]

Misscarlet is a girl

[jmonty]

kind of low to boot someone after agreeing to run with them but w/e.

[Reisz]

Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in.

/Signed

[Nevthial]

I was up late last night and looking for something to do when I came across a couple of LFMs, the first was:

"Zawabi's Revenge": Raid starting in 30mins, zerg prereqs see PlayerX

The second was by PlayerX for Chains of Flame, ADQ then Queen. Brilliant, I thought, that's exactly what my sorc needs. So I join up and we run through CoF and ADQ. At the end of ADQ we're informed that more of the raid organisers guildies had just signed on and priority for places in the raid would be given to them. Basically having helped them through prereqs we weren't going to be able to do the all important last 15mins.

Needless to say we were slightly miffed. Is this something people find acceptable/reasonable?

It isn't proper etiquette per say , but it may be acceptable to some for this to occur. It wouldn't have been improper if each quest had been advertised singly , as then no further expectations would have been given.

~ Personal Note : While this isn't something I do , I wouldn't be offended if I had to leave to make room for someone else in a group composed mainly of one guild. I would just figure it is their static group and they want to play together. No biggie, there is always something cooking in Ghallanda.

[sephiroth1084]

most L16s should be able to solo any part of the dq chain. my guild have been doing alot more dq these days and its not uncommon for us to solo chains and wiz king while waiting for guildies to finish their stuff. dq1 is easy, 1 person take 1 tunnel each, done in 5 mins

Gonna kinda miss flagging with you, Arcane, Hell and Vall after mod 9 hits. Though, why not solo OoB as well? The chests?

[sephiroth1084]

Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in.



If I were waiting on some specific guildmates and accidentally over-filled (such as due to a late guildie), then yeah, otherwise I'd let my guildie know that I'm full and will run another time. Ultimately, this is still a community, and while guildies get priority in some instances (trading, initial invites, swapping to X character to help with Y quest, etc...) I still feel that it is not worth giving someone else the rub. That's me.

[Aranticus]

Gonna kinda miss flagging with you, Arcane, Hell and Vall after mod 9 hits. Though, why not solo OoB as well? The chests?

oob can be soloed easily. the reason is we usually split the party up into a chains group and a wiz king group. once the king group finishes, they move over to chains to get completion. then all will proceed to blood. as a guild, flagging is made a whole lot easier. when we flag for dq, we never put it up for dq2 after to eliminate senarios like what is posted in OP

in addition, we also do not repeat flagging for non guildies as some times they can get pretty rediculous in their demands ie "i help you with blood, you must run wiz with me". we also might have players already clearing in dq1 and is just waiting on the last fight once guildies get in. imo, many players think they are entitled to alot of things when the fact is they are just there for the ride

[cpito]

this horse is dead, please put the bats away.

[Accelerando]

Meh.
You have to know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot. If this is not done what is the difference between a guild group and a pug? Party as the fill spot in a mostly single guild group at your own risk, and accept it when someone else takes priority over you in said group.

[Logicman69]

Wow.. actual drama on Ghallanda??

I almost thought I was on the Agro forum there for a second. :-)

[Fenrisulven6]

Meh.
You have to know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot.

Time wasted that I could have spent finding another pug. At least pay for my P buffs.

What about the reverse? My Cleric bails on you midquest because my guildies are calling for me? Fair?

/edit - I'm speaking of other instances I've experienced, not this one. Junts has made it clear that his was a result of miscommunication

[CSFurious]

but, people can still get ****ed at you

if you are going to go all the way for your guild expect some PUGGER's to get angry when you tell them to leave

i personally would just move on but being exclusionary towards other good capable players is bad for the game


Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in.

Now, I personally have never taken this to the extreme of "Please leave the dungeon I want to replace you." However, in the form of raid organization, I have definitely had people click the LFM and accepted - group not full yet - and said "sorry man had some guildies log on I need a your spot."

Some people might find this rude; and I have gotten an really nasty tell because of it - once. I'm always up front about explaining the situation though, and the majority have been very understanding about it.

I guess, when it comes down to it, would you want to be in a guild that didn't put you first?

[CSFurious]

do you want to be respected or despised?

i guess you do not care as evidenced by your ****-poor attitude

if you relect the general attitude of your guild, i would never run with any of you pooftas


Meh.
You have to know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot. If this is not done what is the difference between a guild group and a pug? Party as the fill spot in a mostly single guild group at your own risk, and accept it when someone else takes priority over you in said group.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Everything should be first come, first serve regardless of affiliation. My friends would certainly understand that .. and personally I wouldn't want friends or guildmates that wouldn't.

[SpanishBlueEyes]

I think there is a good and a bad way of misunderstandings. On Thelanis i think i have only heard of it happening once but i am not saying it never happens but it is probly pretty rare. We might not say in the LFM personally that we are getting guildies through to get flagged but we do let the group know once it is full and running what our goals and intentions are. Mistakes happen and i am blessed to have a wonderful guild who if we picked up one too many puggers and someone logs on the last sec either someone in the group drops out, one of my guildies if we are running the group, or we explain in guild chat to our guildie that we are full. We all understand right now people are having rough times so not alot activity personally is going on guild wise but to ask for a pug to leave a group after you invited him i think is pretty rude. I get the rule guildies before pugs but if your guild does that kind of behavior too many times then no knowing pug is going to want to party with ya'll because they don't know how long they need you for. Now i do want to say i am glad to see someone saying i am sorry for the missunderstanding and i don't think it is an everyday thing with them or even with that guild i was just commenting on what i feel would be out of line behavior.

[Accelerando]

do you want to be respected or despised?

i guess you do not care as evidenced by your ****-poor attitude

if you relect the general attitude of your guild, i would never run with any of you pooftas


Good. Beat It.

Sorry dude by my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading
anytime. That is just the way it is. Why should i drag along some slacker when one
of my guildmates of 3 years needs the quest and wants to come along? So I can be
"respected"? Please. :rolleyes:

[Fenrisulven6]

Good. Beat It. Sorry dude by my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime. That is just the way it is. Why should i drag along some slacker when one of my guildmates of 3 years needs the quest and wants to come along?

Because you invited him. He's expected to waste his time and resources because you lack integrity?


So I can be "respected"? Please. :rolleyes:

No worries. Whats your guild again? I want to be sure my Clerics drop group on your guys at the worst possible moment "because my guildies are calling"... Fair is fair.

Seriously, name the guild so I know what punks to avoid in the future.

[Logicman69]

*Graps popcorn and a 12 pack of Sam Adams*

I have a feeling this will be a good one... Who brought marshmellos?

[redraider]

edited.

[Fenrisulven6]

You dont need anyone to name the guilds. The three guilds on Gallanda that practice this named themselves in their posts.

Nah, its better that he outs his guild himself. If he can work up the nerve...

[Fenrisulven6]

Now, I personally have never taken this to the extreme of "Please leave the dungeon I want to replace you." However, in the form of raid organization, I have definitely had people click the LFM and accepted - group not full yet - and said "sorry man had some guildies log on I need a your spot."

Some people might find this rude; and I have gotten an really nasty tell because of it - once. I'm always up front about explaining the situation though, and the majority have been very understanding about it.

I've had this happen once, and was cool with it atm, mainly because I realized I had been online too long.

But after this thread, I can tell you that in your example above, I would at least hold the spot and make you reform the raid. Just to deal it back to you.

[Junts]

Nah, its better that he outs his guild himself. If he can work up the nerve...


its in his signature!

[Fenrisulven6]

His sig says: "KaTet" and "Cache". Never heard of either, so I didn't recognize those as guild tags.

[redraider]

You dont need anyone to name the guilds. The three guilds on Gallanda that practice this named themselves in their posts.

Katet - Good. Beat It.

Sorry dude by my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading
anytime. That is just the way it is. Why should i drag along some slacker when one
of my guildmates of 3 years needs the quest and wants to come along? So I can be
"respected"? Please.

Sabbat - Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in. I guess, when it comes down to it, would you want to be in a guild that didn't put you first?

And of course, THAC0, who identified themselves.

By the way, as the player at the center of all this, yes it was Red, I would like to set a few things straight.

1. It was not a misunderstanding. The post was for the raid not ADQ with a note saying if you needed ADQ send a tell to player X.
2. In the middle of ADQ, the party leader posts a very nice note saying they had too many guildies, and sorry, but for the raid guildies would take preference.
3. After ADQ, the THAC0 guys dropped to form the raid leaving 3 from ADQ behind.
4. I sent what was supposed to be a guild message (but actually went out in general) a message that said something like:
Typical THAC0 run. Thats why THAC0 is my least favorite guild to run with.
5. My bad, that shouldn't have gone out in general chat. I appologized at least three times in subsequent conversations with the THAC0 guys. Not exactly a disparaging comment in my mind, but I still don't send things like that out on purpose.
6. They did then offer me a spot later, but I declined politely I think.

That should have been the end of it. My guildie Kintro, one of the other two that were dropped, simply placed a question about ettiquete on the forum with no names named.

This is not the first time I have had this happen to a toon by THAC0 and I do generally avoid running with them. There is nothing wrong with their philosophy - it is THEIR philosophy and they are entitled to it.

I agree with bronko on this one - it's over, let's simply play DDO.

[Junts]

You dont need anyone to name the guilds. The three guilds on Gallanda that practice this named themselves in their posts.

Katet - Good. Beat It.

Sorry dude by my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading
anytime. That is just the way it is. Why should i drag along some slacker when one
of my guildmates of 3 years needs the quest and wants to come along? So I can be
"respected"? Please.

Sabat - Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in. I guess, when it comes down to it, would you want to be in a guild that didn't put you first?

And of course, THAC0, who identified themselves.

By the way, as the player at the center of all this, yes it was Red, I would like to set a few things straight.

1. It was not a misunderstanding. The post was for the raid not ADQ with a note saying if you needed ADQ send a tell to player X.
2. In the middle of ADQ, the party leader posts a very nice note saying they had too many guildies, and sorry, but for the raid guildies would take preference.
3. After ADQ, the THAC0 guys dropped to form the raid leaving 3 from ADQ behind.
4. I sent what was supposed to be a guild message (but actually went our in general) a message that said something like:
Typical THAC0 run. Thats why THAC0 is my least favorite guild to run with.
5. My bad, that shouldn't have gone out in general chat. I appologized at least three times in subsequent conversations with the THAC0 guys. Not exactly a disparaging comment in my mind, but I still don't send things like that out on purpose.
6. They did then offer me a spot later, but I declined politely I think.

That should have been the end of it. My guildie Kintro, one of the other two that were dropped, simply placed a question about ettiquete on the forum with no names named.

This is not the first time I have had this happen to a toon by THAC0 and I do generally avoid running with them. There is nothing wrong with their philosophy - it is THEIR philosophy and they are entitled to it.

I agree with bronko on this one - it's over, let's simply play DDO.

The funny thing is that most thaco players, including myself, rarely play this way and we once had a guildie leave because I refused to drop puggers for him.

Once you're in my group, with the exception of gross incompetence or stupidity, I won't drop you for a guildie, however, the problem here wasn't dropping non-guildies for guildies, it was the raid becoming overbooked because the number of people in the flagging group wasn't correctly communicated to me; had I known how many of you there were, I would have refused the last two joiners (one guildie, and one pugger who hit the main raid lfm); since I thought that group had 4 and not 6, you guys ended up the odd men out.

[Thriand]

it happens, just let it die. I think people get way too worked up over a game, especially as of recently. I think this is just another reason why we need MOD 9 NOW!

[Accelerando]

Because you invited him. He's expected to waste his time and resources because you lack integrity?

What are you talking about? No one is throwing anyone out mid quest (at least not since they made it so you can't) :D

If completing 2/4 or 2/3 raid flagging prereqs quickly and efficiently with usually little to no effort on the pug's part is a waste of time and resources... well I don't know what to say to that.

If you are suggesting that you get to stay in my group indefinitely after you join it until you decide to leave, even though you might be an absolute stranger and I may want to play with my friends, well you are a crazy person. When you join a group and I have the star, our social contract lasts for the exact duration of 1 quest, after which time I may or may not choose to renew that social contract based on performance, fun factor, and other variables. Expecting any more than that shows an unrealistic and over inflated sense of self importance and value.




No worries. Whats your guild again? I want to be sure my Clerics drop group on your guys at the worst possible moment "because my guildies are calling"... Fair is fair.

Seriously, name the guild so I know what punks to avoid in the future.

OH NOES! Please don't deprive me of the presence of your AMAZING CLERIC. :rolleyes:

Seriously, name your characters so I know what whiners to avoid in the future.

[smatt]

You dont need anyone to name the guilds. The three guilds on Gallanda that practice this named themselves in their posts.

Katet - Good. Beat It.

Sorry dude by my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading
anytime. That is just the way it is. Why should i drag along some slacker when one
of my guildmates of 3 years needs the quest and wants to come along? So I can be
"respected"? Please.

Sabbat - Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in. I guess, when it comes down to it, would you want to be in a guild that didn't put you first?

And of course, THAC0, who identified themselves.

By the way, as the player at the center of all this, yes it was Red, I would like to set a few things straight.

1. It was not a misunderstanding. The post was for the raid not ADQ with a note saying if you needed ADQ send a tell to player X.
2. In the middle of ADQ, the party leader posts a very nice note saying they had too many guildies, and sorry, but for the raid guildies would take preference.
3. After ADQ, the THAC0 guys dropped to form the raid leaving 3 from ADQ behind.
4. I sent what was supposed to be a guild message (but actually went out in general) a message that said something like:
Typical THAC0 run. Thats why THAC0 is my least favorite guild to run with.
5. My bad, that shouldn't have gone out in general chat. I appologized at least three times in subsequent conversations with the THAC0 guys. Not exactly a disparaging comment in my mind, but I still don't send things like that out on purpose.
6. They did then offer me a spot later, but I declined politely I think.

That should have been the end of it. My guildie Kintro, one of the other two that were dropped, simply placed a question about ettiquete on the forum with no names named.

This is not the first time I have had this happen to a toon by THAC0 and I do generally avoid running with them. There is nothing wrong with their philosophy - it is THEIR philosophy and they are entitled to it.

I agree with bronko on this one - it's over, let's simply play DDO.


Hmmm, not our policy nor our philosophy... In fact in Jaerlach's situation I've talked to him before about being a bit MORE guild oriented as far as raiding goes. And that's just from my personal perspective to him, not as a Thac0 officer. Personally, I would've handled the situation that came up with you all a bit differently. If it was understood that you were also going to run the raid with them, then you and NOT the newcomer guildies should've gotten the spots, IMO. Thac0 doesn't really have any policies to be honest, we at least try to be fair with everybody guildie or not, despite the mostly untrue rumours that some people spread. There are many personalities within the guild though , to each their own., nobody rules Thac0 with an iron hand. If other players have issues with Thac0 members, the officers and in the end Bronko handle things very quikly, contacting all parties, and attempting to solve the problem. Jaerlach is perhaps one of the most fair and prolific raid PuG leaders within the guild he runs with anybody and everybody. So you're slap that it's a typical Thac0 raid, well that's a bit offensive.

I'm sorry that things in this situation seemed unfair to you........

[Fenrisulven6]

If completing 2/4 or 2/3 raid flagging prereqs quickly and efficiently with usually little to no effort on the pug's part is a waste of time and resources... well I don't know what to say to that.

You could say "I see the need to move the goalposts here" :rolleyes: because this is what you said: "my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime."


If you are suggesting that you get to stay in my group indefinitely after you join it until you decide to leave, even though you might be an absolute stranger and I may want to play with my friends, well you are a crazy person.

Then why would you invite a pug in the first place? You want it both ways - take a PUG to fill up a group, but then tell him to leave when a guildie logs on.

Pathetic.

[Sirea]

I thought this was resolved like....two days ago :confused:

Can't we just drop it? Or is Ghallanda really that starved for drama that we have to beat a dead horse? :p

[Fenrisulven6]

I thought this was resolved like....two days ago

We're not talking about that.

We're discussing why Accelerando thinks its cool to tell a pugger to drop group in mid-quest because one of his guildies wants in.

[Accelerando]

You could say "I see the need to move the goalposts here" :rolleyes: because this is what you said: "my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime."

What are you even talking about? I am guessing you are a non-native English speaker because few of your sentences even make sense. Can you please try harder to communicate I am really not getting your point.




Then why would you invite a pug in the first place? You want it both ways - take a PUG to fill up a group, but then tell him to leave when a guildie logs on.


You are out of your mind if you think you get to keep that spot quest after quest after quest when I see one of my friends sitting around waiting for a group.

Like I said, our social contract when I invite you to group is for one quest only. Its renewal is completely at my discretion, AS THE PARTY LEADER. No I am not going to ask you to leave mid quest (as I already stated), but I also have no obligation to keep you around after that quest is over. I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

In DDO the person with the star runs the group, decides who is in it and who is not. Don't like it? GTFO, go play Maple Story or Habbo Hotel or some other game where people will coddle you.



Pathetic.

Now that, is ironic.

[lifestaker]

To put this simply just drop it. Far to many people a tossing around guild names and player names to call out who is the bigger ***.

Hate to break it to people but NO ONE CARES. Yes, you got booted from a party, no one cares. It sucks, no one cares. You know only 4 people on the Ghallanda and they are only in your guild, yet again no one cares. People don't show respect to you even though you THINK you deserve it, still NO ONE CARES.

Personally I think you should be happy to be told why you got booted. Some people don't give you that, and some are not worthy of telling.

Let a dead horse stay dead, and stop the pathetic drama over how people play. Live with it or re-roll in RL, 'cuz if this is to much for you ya might need to.

[Fenrisulven6]

You are out of your mind if you think you get to keep that spot quest after quest after quest when I see one of my friends sitting around waiting for a group. Like I said, our social contract when I invite you to group is for one quest only. Its renewal is completely at my discretion.

We're not talking about that. Obviously, an invite is to group for one quest only. You're simply backing off your original statement, pretending you meant something different.


You are out of your mind if you think you get to keep that spot quest after quest after quest when I see one of my friends sitting around waiting for a group. Like I said-

You said you would tell a pugger to drop group to make room for your guildie:


Sorry dude by my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime. That is just the way it is. Why should i drag along some slacker when one of my guildmates of 3 years needs the quest and wants to come along?

"anytime" includes "middle of quest". If thats not what you meant, then say so...


I am guessing you are a non-native English speaker because few of your sentences even make sense. Can you please try harder to communicate I am really not getting your point.

...perhaps with a disclaimer that English isn't your first language. Or that you're a product of OBE.

[Mr_Ed7]

Good. Beat It.

Sorry dude by my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading
anytime. That is just the way it is. Why should i drag along some slacker when one
of my guildmates of 3 years needs the quest and wants to come along? So I can be
"respected"? Please. :rolleyes:

This guy just does not get it. When you are in a party THERE IS NO GUILD, its the PARTY that takes prescedence.

You promised a full run, USED pugs to get your way (where were your guildies then?) and then discarded them when you did not need them.

YOU WOULD NOT LIKE THIS DONE TO YOU, SO STOP JUSTIFYING YOUR POOR ACTIONS!

[Accelerando]

We're not talking about that. Obviously, an invite is to group for one quest only. You're simply backing off your original statement, pretending you meant something different.


...
Either you just don't get it or you are trolling here trying to get me riled up. Whichever it is, I am finished with you trying to put words into my mouth and
ascribe motives to my actions. See ya never.

[Accelerando]

This guy just does not get it. When you are in a party THERE IS NO GUILD, its the PARTY that takes prescedence.

YOU WOULD NOT LIKE THIS DONE TO YOU, SO STOP JUSTIFYING YOUR POOR ACTIONS!

Which of my poor actions am I justifying? Can you give me one specific example where I ever did anything in this game that you consider to be wrong or immoral.

No, you cannot, because you simply don't know me.

And no, when I am in a party it is not "there is no guild". It just doesn't work that
way.



You promised a full run, USED pugs to get your way (where were your guildies then?) and then discarded them when you did not need them.


What are you talking about? Who did I promise a full run? A full run of what? What does a full run even mean? What was this imagined slight that I perpetrated
that you feel you need to get bent out of shape for?

Another uninformed troll, another ignore. Good day for the squelch list.

[Fenrisulven6]

Either you just don't get it or you are trolling here trying to get me riled up.

Your's was the initial troll, arrogantly asserting that puggers should go pound sand when told to drop group. But I'll give you another chance to revise and extend your remarks:

Hypotheticals: You're leading a pug group through VON...

1) Halfway through Von3 your KaTet guildies log on and ask to join you. Do you demand the puggers drop group to make room?

2) You just finished Von3, about to start Von4, your KaTet guildies log on and ask to join you. Do you demand the puggers drop group to make room?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[redraider]

Let it go Fenrisulven. Accelerando is who he is (and I do not in any way know him) and has stated his opinion clearly. I do not know if his opinion speaks for Katet, but just let it go.

The thing I found most interesting in all the replies were the ones from THAC0. It looks like I may have completely mis-judged them based on two events over several years time. Their responses were on target and appropriate for a guild with class and integrity.

It also looks as if Kintro's original goal of creating a dialog around Pug v. Guild priorities in runs and raids was accomplished. I'm not sure there is an answer and it looks like the hard-core raiding guilds look at it one way (Guild first no matter what) while the more casual guilds look at it from the opposite side (make sure everyone has fun).

Not an unexpected result. :rolleyes:

/end thread

[Accelerando]

Your's was the initial troll, arrogantly asserting that puggers should go pound sand when told to drop group. But I'll give you another chance to revise and extend your remarks:

Hypotheticals: You're leading a pug group through VON...

1) Halfway through Von3 your KaTet guildies log on and ask to join you. Do you demand the puggers drop group to make room?

2) You just finished Von3, about to start Von4, your KaTet guildies log on and ask to join you. Do you demand the puggers drop group to make room?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

1) Hell no. Who would ever do that?

2) It depends on alot of factors. If it were guildies plural (ie. two or more) they would just two man it anyway. But yes there are situations where I would either ask the pug to leave, or simply reform the group to include my friends. This is more likely to happen with vale prereqs or refuge quests then Vons but you get the point.

[Whippy]

Let it go Fenrisulven. Accelerando is who he is (and I do not in any way know him) and has stated his opinion clearly. I do not know if his opinion speaks for Katet, but just let it go.

The thing I found most interesting in all the replies were the ones from THAC0. It looks like I may have completely mis-judged them based on two events over several years time. Their responses were on target and appropriate for a guild with class and integrity.

It also looks as if Kintro's original goal of creating a dialog around Pug v. Guild priorities in runs and raids was accomplished. I'm not sure there is an answer and it looks like the hard-core raiding guilds look at it one way (Guild first no matter what) while the more casual guilds look at it from the opposite side (make sure everyone has fun).

Not an unexpected result. :rolleyes:

/end thread

The inital problem was indeed sorted out a couple of days ago lol, and the people involved have explained themselves and there are no hard feelings like red says towards THAC0 or anyone else for that matter.

He has hit the nail on the head when he says some guilds see it one way, for others it not as clear cut. Personally I always invite my guildies first, but if I have already accepted someone in for a purpose I won't ask them to leave. It seems that although this didn't happen in a couple of instances it is generally not practice to do so.

This thread has served its purpose in gauging peoples opinions on this, but there is no need for some of you to get so wound up about it, lets just hope with the new DQ non flagging in mod 9 this doesn't happen again.

[smatt]

(make sure everyone has fun).



Bingo!

[Nakia]

Speaking AS a member of KaTet, yes...guildies come first. BUT...I also know that there have been numerous times that I have just logged on to find that my guildies are pugging something and tell me, "Sorry, we're full atm...three of us are running X quest with some pugs." and it's left at that. If it's something that I need to do as well, then they're generally more than willing to come help me afterwards, but I rarely ever see them just bail on pugs part way through something or kick them from a group for me unless the puggers are especially clueless and it's more hassle to keep on then it's worth.

As for the comment about "where were your guildies then"...some of us have normal everyday lives that don't allow us to game 24/7, so we try and help each other out as best as we can with the time we're provided.

[Samadhi]

Because you invited him. He's expected to waste his time and resources because you lack integrity?



No worries. Whats your guild again? I want to be sure my Clerics drop group on your guys at the worst possible moment "because my guildies are calling"... Fair is fair.



Wow dude - reading comprehension FTW.

I know that I SPECIFICALLY STATED that I was referring to removing a non-guildie DURING GROUP FORMATION - NOT mid-quest. And your response is you want to purposelly grief by dropping midquest at a crucial time? Sorry if I don't feel that my way is more kind to all those involved. Please PM your characters' names if you really don't want to ever run with us.

[Accelerando]

Speaking AS a member of KaTet, yes...guildies come first. BUT...I also know that there have been numerous times that I have just logged on to find that my guildies are pugging something and tell me, "Sorry, we're full atm...three of us are running X quest with some pugs." and it's left at that. If it's something that I need to do as well, then they're generally more than willing to come help me afterwards, but I rarely ever see them just bail on pugs part way through something or kick them from a group for me unless the puggers are especially clueless and it's more hassle to keep on then it's worth.

As for the comment about "where were your guildies then"...some of us have normal everyday lives that don't allow us to game 24/7, so we try and help each other out as best as we can with the time we're provided.

Don't bother Ny, that dude is just going to read the thoughtful reply you wrote as "KaTet will jump out of the quest while we are in the middle of it to help their guildmates", or "KaTet will ask me to leave when one of their guildmates comes on and we are in the middle of a quest, all the while saying x-rated things about my mother and my sister and my grandma."

[Fenrisulven6]

Wow dude - reading comprehension FTW.

I know that I SPECIFICALLY STATED that I was referring to removing a non-guildie DURING GROUP FORMATION - NOT mid-quest. And your response is you want to purposelly grief by dropping midquest at a crucial time?

No. That response was to Accelerando [post #38]. See where it says "quote: Accelerando"? I was talking to him, not you. Reading comprehension indeed.

What I said to you was: "I've had this happen once, and was cool with it...But after this thread, I can tell you that in your example above, I would at least hold the spot and make you reform the raid. Just to deal it back to you." [post #42]


Please PM your characters' names if you really don't want to ever run with us.

I dunno man. You can't even keep two seperate posts straight. If I send you my toons names, you'll prob end up blacklisting yourself by mistake. :rolleyes:

Besides, my way is more fun. Keeps you and the rest of Sabbat on your toes.

Seriously, if you had any integrity, you'd place "pugs may be replaced w/o warning by guildies" in your LFMs, but that would mean you couldn't abuse puggers to fill out your raid.


[...]



that dude is just going to read the thoughtful reply you wrote as "KaTet will jump out of the quest while we are in the middle of it to help their guildmates", or "KaTet will ask me to leave when one of their guildmates comes on and we are in the middle of a quest"

[shrug] You said:


...you should know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot.... [and] ...my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime.

That means yes, "KaTet will jump out of the quest while we are in the middle of it to help their guildmates", and "KaTet will ask me to leave when one of their guildmates comes on and we are in the middle of a quest"

If you didn't mean it, then why say it? Same pattern as your invites, I see.


[...]


Regardless, I've made my points and am prepared to leave it. But if you KaTet and Sabbat guys want to go 10 rounds, I'll hang around. The PR has to be great for your guilds.

[wamjratl1]

But if you KaTet and Sabbat guys want to go 10 rounds, I'll hang around. The PR has to be great for your guilds.

Neither guild needs it.

[Vyctor]

Lol KaTet....I can assure you Cache isn't stick around to get our guild name out....plenty of people know KaTet already.....love or hate...they know us....

[kingfisher]

If it will smooth things over I pledge to host a DQ raid with full flagging for up to 11 members of the Southern Tenants Farmers Union at a time/date of your choosing. All I ask is that everyone put this behind them and try to remember that this is just a game.


stand up guy as usual

[Samadhi]

No. That response was to Accelerando [post #38]. See where it says "quote: Accelerando"? I was talking to him, not you. Reading comprehension indeed.

What I said to you was: "I've had this happen once, and was cool with it...But after this thread, I can tell you that in your example above, I would at least hold the spot and make you reform the raid. Just to deal it back to you." [post #42]



I dunno man. You can't even keep two seperate posts straight. If I send you my toons names, you'll prob end up blacklisting yourself by mistake. :rolleyes:

Besides, my way is more fun. Keeps you and the rest of Sabbat on your toes.

Seriously, if you had any integrity, you'd place "pugs may be replaced w/o warning by guildies" in your LFMs, but that would mean you couldn't abuse puggers to fill out your raid.


[...]




[shrug] You said:



That means yes, "KaTet will jump out of the quest while we are in the middle of it to help their guildmates", and "KaTet will ask me to leave when one of their guildmates comes on and we are in the middle of a quest"

If you didn't mean it, then why say it? Same pattern as your invites, I see.


[...]


Regardless, I've made my points and am prepared to leave it. But if you KaTet and Sabbat guys want to go 10 rounds, I'll hang around. The PR has to be great for your guilds.


Quoted assuming you really have the stones to do it in game.

BTW dude, since you are obviously new to this game, you should keep in mind how small these servers are. Those that play a lot mostly get along for one simple reason - griefers find themselves with 10 hour LFM's and auto-declines very quickly in this game. This isn't WOW where there are so many folks you can always find new people ignorant of your reputation. Peace.

[Fenrisulven6]

Quoted assuming you really have the stones to do it in game.

You'll have to be more precise. You quoted everything so I can't tell what you're referring to. Forcing you to reform b/c you recruited me under false pretenses to fill out the group until your guildies log on? I would have been considerate before, but after this thread and your attitude, nope.


BTW dude, since you are obviously new to this game, you should keep in mind how small these servers are. Those that play a lot mostly get along for one simple reason - griefers find themselves with 10 hour LFM's and auto-declines very quickly in this game.

Likewise for guilds like Sabbat who think its cool to abuse puggers.

I hope your raid leaders have better judgement in-game than you do on the forums.

[Vyctor]

Likewise for guilds like Sabbat who think its cool to abuse puggers.

I hope your raid leaders have better judgement in-game than you do on the forums.

You really think people in Sabbat or KaTet have trouble finding groups?

[SimVerg]

You really think people in Sabbat or KaTet have trouble finding groups?

Hey pal, he's never heard of either of your guild names but you had better watch out or you'll have some trouble getting into his high end raid groups.

[Samadhi]

Hehe, just did some research - he's never heard of us because he isn't even on this server. Peace troll, and GL in your future endeavors.

[ChaelaAnne]

You'll have to be more precise. You quoted everything so I can't tell what you're referring to. Forcing you to reform b/c you recruited me under false pretenses to fill out the group until your guildies log on? I would have been considerate before, but after this thread and your attitude, nope.



Likewise for guilds like Sabbat who think its cool to abuse puggers.

I hope your raid leaders have better judgement in-game than you do on the forums.

First of all, I have been in exactly ONE Sabbat raid where the group leader has asked someone to drop for a guildie. And clearly, I run a LOT of raids with Sabbat. Sam was very polite when he asked him to drop, and the guy had only been in the group a minute or two.

I think that most would agree with me here: Sabbat far from abuses puggers. MOST who have pugged in a Sabbat raid would agree that Sabbat raids are fast, efficiant, and very organized. I would go so far as to say almost all even halfway compitent puggers would join us again in a heartbeat.

As a sidenote, being petty and small when you haven't even RUN with Sabbat is kind of silly.

[wamjratl1]

Likewise for guilds like Sabbat who think its cool to abuse puggers.

I hope your raid leaders have better judgement in-game than you do on the forums.

Um, yes we've all been concerned about Sabbat's lack of judgement in raids lmao. Who is this guy? Is he even on our server?

[Samadhi]

Um, yes we've all been concerned about Sabbat's lack of judgement in raids lmao. Who is this guy? Is he even on our server?

Lol nope - it took a minute of digging - but he's on Thelanis

[MondoGrunday]

carefull painting an entire guilds image off one or two of their members poor decisions. guilds don't mean anything in a pug and all this banter about sabbat and katet isn't helping either's image. and yes people on ghallandra know who sabbat and katet are , along with a hundred other guilds. its not a feat or anything, its called small player base. if you live in a town you know everybody, but in a city, not so much.:cool:

[Accelerando]

That means yes, "KaTet will jump out of the quest while we are in the middle of it to help their guildmates", and "KaTet will ask me to leave when one of their guildmates comes on and we are in the middle of a quest"



No, you *****, it doesn't mean that to anyone but you. Nobody in this game is known to exhibit that kind of behavior, but maybe since you project those attentions onto my perfectly innocent statements I am thinking that you are a group leaver? The kind of guy who recalls and drops party if something he doesn't like happens.
Yes I am getting a clearer picture now.

[Coldest]

do you want to be respected or despised?

i guess you do not care as evidenced by your ****-poor attitude

if you relect the general attitude of your guild, i would never run with any of you pooftas

Only a shatfoop would mispell pooftah.

[Coldest]

Because you invited him. He's expected to waste his time and resources because you lack integrity?



No worries. Whats your guild again? I want to be sure my Clerics drop group on your guys at the worst possible moment "because my guildies are calling"... Fair is fair.

Seriously, name the guild so I know what punks to avoid in the future.

Check his sig. *shakes head in disbelief*

[ChaelaAnne]

Check his sig. *shakes head in disbelief*

Didn't we decide in the shroud the other day that a hug coldest day was in the future?

[Coldest]

hey Pal, He's Never Heard Of Either Of Your Guild Names But You Had Better Watch Out Or You'll Have Some Trouble Getting Into His High End Raid Groups.

: )

[Coldest]

Didn't we decide in the shroud the other day that a hug coldest day was in the future?

Gunga pronounced Goong-Gaw

[Coldest]

Personally, I would've handled the situation with a slap.


Smatt,

1. Did you ever think the day would come that KaTet and Thac0 were talked about in the same context? Kinda warms the belly doesn't it?

2. Remember the *****marked and put your Mr. Happy faces back in your posts,



commrade.

3. See Bronco, I told you Smatt would warm up to us.

[ChaelaAnne]

Gunga pronounced Goong-Gaw

Pretty sure it was his idea....

[Fenrisulven6]

That means yes, "KaTet will jump out of the quest while we are in the middle of it to help their guildmates", and "KaTet will ask me to leave when one of their guildmates comes on and we are in the middle of a quest"


No, you *****, it doesn't mean that to anyone but you. Nobody in this game is known to exhibit that kind of behavior, but maybe since you project those attentions onto my perfectly innocent statements -

Hey, you're the one who said:

Accelerando: "you should know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot.... [and] ...my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime. "

You want to explain how that doesn't mean what it says? Or is adhom your best defense?


No, you *****,

Temper temper. Not good for KaTet's "rep" to be punked by a mere pugger noob like me.

.

[Coldest]

That means yes, "KaTet Temper temper. Not good for KaTet's "rep" to be punked by a mere pugger noob like me.

.

"rep", "cred", "juice", w-t-f are you talking about. LMAO. You obviously don't know much about that which you expound upon. Our rep, ... Lol.

[smatt]

Smatt,

1. Did you ever think the day would come that KaTet and Thac0 were talked about in the same context? Kinda warms the belly doesn't it?

2. Remember the *****marked and put your Mr. Happy faces back in your posts,



commrade.

3. See Bronco, I told you Smatt would warm up to us.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :p

[Uska]

Any guild that would not give priority to its guild members over PUG's is not a guild I would want to be in.

Now, I personally have never taken this to the extreme of "Please leave the dungeon I want to replace you." However, in the form of raid organization, I have definitely had people click the LFM and accepted - group not full yet - and said "sorry man had some guildies log on I need a your spot."

Some people might find this rude; and I have gotten an really nasty tell because of it - once. I'm always up front about explaining the situation though, and the majority have been very understanding about it.

I guess, when it comes down to it, would you want to be in a guild that didn't put you first?


Disagree wouldnt want to be part of a guild that booted people from a group that were already accpeted, if you get several replies for your group choose your guildies first but dont boot someone you already accepted.

[Uska]

His sig says: "KaTet" and "Cache". Never heard of either, so I didn't recognize those as guild tags.

Dont know Cache but have ran with members of KaTet without issues.

[Uska]

Which of my poor actions am I justifying? Can you give me one specific example where I ever did anything in this game that you consider to be wrong or immoral.

No, you cannot, because you simply don't know me.

And no, when I am in a party it is not "there is no guild". It just doesn't work that
way.


What are you talking about? Who did I promise a full run? A full run of what? What does a full run even mean? What was this imagined slight that I perpetrated
that you feel you need to get bent out of shape for?

Another uninformed troll, another ignore. Good day for the squelch list.


For some like me it does if it dont for you thats fine but some wont want to run with you because of it but I can see that dont bother you,and thats fine but if something like this happens to much I might not want to run with such people myself

[Uska]

Hehe, just did some research - he's never heard of us because he isn't even on this server. Peace troll, and GL in your future endeavors.

I play on g and I know katet but not the other guild

[cpito]

I play on g and I know katet but not the other guild

If you're talking about Cache, it's because that's not a guild name.

FTR, you wouldn't believe what those Katet pikers did tonite! They ran a VoD and subjected us puggers to NEWBS!! OMGZORS!11!1!! They even took the time to explain stuff and made a couple people's first run a pleasant and successful experience!!! :eek:

Twenty lashes with a wet noodle for each of ya! :D

[CSFurious]

google poofta, you shatfoop

i come from argo the original home of the pooftas


Only a shatfoop would mispell pooftah.

[Nakia]

FTR, you wouldn't believe what those Katet pikers did tonite! They ran a VoD and subjected us puggers to NEWBS!! OMGZORS!11!1!! They even took the time to explain stuff and made a couple people's first run a pleasant and successful experience!!! :eek:

Twenty lashes with a wet noodle for each of ya! :D

Awww...come on now...you're ruining the rep we've been working on in this thread! KaTet wouldn't do something like that! We're a bunch of jerks don't ya know :P

[Logicman69]

If you're talking about Cache, it's because that's not a guild name.

FTR, you wouldn't believe what those Katet pikers did tonite! They ran a VoD and subjected us puggers to NEWBS!! OMGZORS!11!1!! They even took the time to explain stuff and made a couple people's first run a pleasant and successful experience!!! :eek:

Twenty lashes with a wet noodle for each of ya! :D

QFT...

I rand my 20th Hound with them the other night. They were the most.. ummm... colorful.. bunch of people I have run with, but they made sure that the run went smooth and everyone had fun.

[Mr_Ed7]

Informative thread as others have put it.

Apparently there are players in game who deem it "ok" to boot puggers for guildies.

Apparently there are players in game who deem it "unacceptable" to boot puggers for guildies.

Apparently there are some players who think name-calling is an acceptable form of voicing disagreements.

[Accelerando]

Temper temper. Not good for KaTet's "rep" to be punked by a mere pugger noob like me.

.

:rolleyes:

Word up to ya peeps home slice! Fenris keeping it real in da hizouse! REPRESENT!

lol

[wamjratl1]

I think that most would agree with me here: Sabbat far from abuses puggers. MOST who have pugged in a Sabbat raid would agree that Sabbat raids are fast, efficiant, and very organized. I would go so far as to say almost all even halfway compitent puggers would join us again in a heartbeat.



And fun. You forgot fun. Don't forget the fun.

[wamjratl1]

Lol nope - it took a minute of digging - but he's on Thelanis

Ahhhhh. Maybe he's just RPing a ******bag.

[Fenrisulven6]

Word up to ya peeps home slice! Fenris keeping it real in da hizouse! REPRESENT!

Cute dodge. You claim you were misrepresented, but continue to behave like a coward, refusing to stand behind what you said. I'll throw you another softball:


you should know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot.... [and] ...my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime.

Which means you think its cool to dump puggers in the middle of a quest to make room for your guildies.

You want to explain how that doesn't mean what it says, or just continue with the lame ad homs? If its not what you meant, or if you mispoke, just say so.

[cpito]

blah blah blah

Dude, we get it, you disapprove the original terminology he used. Now take your ball and go home

[Coldest]

If you're talking about Cache, it's because that's not a guild name.

FTR, you wouldn't believe what those Katet pikers did tonite! They ran a VoD and subjected us puggers to NEWBS!! OMGZORS!11!1!! They even took the time to explain stuff and made a couple people's first run a pleasant and successful experience!!! :eek:

Twenty lashes with a wet noodle for each of ya! :D



QFT...

I rand my 20th Hound with them the other night. They were the most.. ummm... colorful.. bunch of people I have run with, but they made sure that the run went smooth and everyone had fun.


1. LIES!!!!!!!!!!!

2. PM me names so that they may be booted.

[cpito]

1. LIES!!!!!!!!!!!

2. PM me names so that they may be booted.

Aw! Coldest needs a /hug! :D

Or maybe it's the twenty lashes he really wants :p

[Accelerando]

dude, We Get It, You Disapprove The Original Terminology He Used. Now Take Your Ball And Go Home

<3

[Fenrisulven6]

Dude, we get it, you disapprove the original terminology he used. Now take your ball and go home

Nah, its not that I disapprove, its that he got all arrogant about puggers and then balled up like a coward when called out on it.

He should at least have the guts to stand by what he said, instead of summoning all his little sycophants into a shield wall.

[Guaire]

Nah, its not that I disapprove, its that he got all arrogant about puggers and then balled up like a coward when called out on it.

He should at least have the guts to stand by what he said, instead of summoning all his little sycophants into a shield wall.

Gotta ask... have you gone back and read your posts at all? Seriously man, troll doesn't begin to touch it. The number of times you make a hypocrite out of yourself is staggering. I particularly enjoyed you demanding guild and character names but being totally unwilling to share your own. You're also condemming folks unjustly for behavior you've admitted you'd be willing to do out of spite????

Walk away. You've swallowed the foot all the way to the hip and you just keep chewing.

[weyoun]

So lets say you're pugging von 1-4. When you finish part 2 a guildie logs on who needs 3-4. You'd then drop the pugs in order to take your guildie instead? That's what it appeared was happening here and no I wouldn't want to be in a guild who made that a common practice.


Yeah that is standard practice in the guild I belong to. I run with those who I will run with over and over again. Its not like you can't find another group or start your own. For God's sake, kick the pugger!

There are exceptions but not for some random pugger.

/flame on

[Coldest]

Nah, its not that I disapprove, its that he got all arrogant about puggers and then balled up like a coward when called out on it.

He should at least have the guts to stand by what he said, instead of summoning all his little sycophants into a shield wall.

2 points:

1. I don't defend Cache. He is his own and can take care of himself just fine. I enjoy attacks not blocks.

2. I prefer to be referred to as Psycho Pants if you must label me.

[cpito]

2. I prefer to be referred to as Psycho Pants if you must label me.

LMAO... so glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read that :p

[Nikorr123]

Which means you think its cool to dump puggers in the middle of a quest to make room for your guildies.


duh?

http://files.dmusic.com/music/b/r/brianwar//Jesus-dumbass-Blue_Gargoyle.jpg

[hannika]

FTR, you wouldn't believe what those Katet pikers did tonite! They ran a VoD and subjected us puggers to NEWBS!! OMGZORS!11!1!! They even took the time to explain stuff and made a couple people's first run a pleasant and successful experience!!! :eek:


haha this just struck me as funny, because while everything peech said is true, they also booted a pugger because i logged on and wanted a spot :D but it was BEFORE THE QUEST WAS STARTED. cache isn't talking about booting ppl INSIDE A DUNGEON he even mentioned that, because the game doesn't let you.

[Coldest]

haha this just struck me as funny, because while everything peech said is true, they also booted a pugger because i logged on and wanted a spot :D but it was BEFORE THE QUEST WAS STARTED. cache isn't talking about booting ppl INSIDE A DUNGEON he even mentioned that, because the game doesn't let you.

FTR - I was that PUG and I am hurt.

[cpito]

haha this just struck me as funny, because while everything peech said is true, they also booted a pugger because i logged on and wanted a spot :D but it was BEFORE THE QUEST WAS STARTED. cache isn't talking about booting ppl INSIDE A DUNGEON he even mentioned that, because the game doesn't let you.

Let's not forget that the pugger in question... well... let's just say it was unanimous that we were far better off with you in party ;)

Which proves that some puggers simply earn thier way out

[hannika]

Let's not forget that the pugger in question... well... let's just say it was unanimous that we were far better off with you in party ;)

Which proves that some puggers simply earn thier way out

oh did he suck? lol well then i don't feel bad that they booted him. i dunno who it was, they just said they'd boot a pug.

[Logicman69]

1. LIES!!!!!!!!!!!

2. PM me names so that they may be booted.

No Need to boot anyone. They made sure to properly abuse me, even charging me for Rez's.

[Accelerando]

Nah, its not that I disapprove, its that he got all arrogant about puggers and then balled up like a coward when called out on it.

He should at least have the guts to stand by what he said, instead of summoning all his little sycophants into a shield wall.


I am not a coward.. .you are just psychotically clinging to the idea that I would try to brow beat people into leaving my group mid quest, which is the exact opposite of everything I have said so far. What else can I say, I have no need to defend myself from your pathological projection.

Welcome to Ghallanda. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Fenrisulven6]

Gotta ask... have you gone back and read your posts at all?

Have you?


You've swallowed the foot all the way to the hip and you just keep chewing.

Uh huh, you can't even understand what you read. So you're nothing but ironic.


cache isn't talking about booting ppl INSIDE A DUNGEON he even mentioned that, because the game doesn't let you.

Right, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't give peeps the "drop group or we'll reform anyway" ultimatum. He said "running with" and "anytime", which is more than simply "before the quest even started".


you should know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot.... [and] ...my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime.

So maybe try to comprehend basic english before you pop off.

I've given him ample opportunity to explain himself, he's still cowering.

[Fenrisulven6]

I am not a coward.. .What else can I say.

So when you say "running with a group" you mean "standing outside the quest" :rolleyes:

When you say "anytime" you mean "only before the quest starts" :rolleyes:

What a word weasel.

[Guaire]

EDITTED. why waste my time.

[Thriand]

So when you say "running with a group" you mean "standing outside the quest" :rolleyes:

When you say "anytime" you mean "only before the quest starts" :rolleyes:

What a word weasel.

OMG how dense can you be??? it has been stated multiple times thats not what he meant by it and yet you go on and on and on about the same freaking quote.... do us all a favor and go back to your own server. KaTeT is a well known guild and nothing you say or do is going to influence the opinions people have already formed about them.

[Mike_Fun_Spot]

Cute dodge. You claim you were misrepresented, but continue to behave like a coward, refusing to stand behind what you said. I'll throw you another softball:



Which means you think its cool to dump puggers in the middle of a quest to make room for your guildies.

You want to explain how that doesn't mean what it says, or just continue with the lame ad homs? If its not what you meant, or if you mispoke, just say so.

Are you dense or something? Or is this what fifth graders do on their spring break? Or do like to cower behind faceless forum names and type your little heart out, where are your game names anonymous Thelanis? Can you work up the nerve?

Go do your homework, lunch is probably ready go see what mom made, or better yet go out side and do something spring break is almost over son.

[Accelerando]

So when you say "running with a group" you mean "standing outside the quest" :rolleyes:

When you say "anytime" you mean "only before the quest starts" :rolleyes:

What a word weasel.

zzzzzzzz

I am starting to understand what is going on here. You have no real concept of pugging and running through multiple quests because every time you finish a quest the group just splits up. The part you aren't seeing is when they reform without you immediately afterwards. See with most people in this game, when they find a good solid group they tend to run several quests in a row, often a whole series on normal, then hard, then elite. Then maybe move onto another quest and do the same.

I am sorry groups keep leaving you in the dust, or asking you to leave in the middle of the dungeon. I really think you should just maybe practice harder, or play something easier than a cleric like a barb? Then maybe you will get a better idea of what EVERYONE ELSE in this thread is talking about.

[Nikorr123]

Anyone know this Fenrisulven6 lightbulb toon names?

[Coldest]

Anyone know this Fenrisulven6 lightbulb toon names?

He's a noob from Thelanis. His forum name indicates an account from 06, but:



Hey guys, new DDO player with about 20yrs experience playing tabletop Dragons.

Only one toon so far:

Ischaeyde
Rogue2/Mage3

I'm hoping to find a cool guild to show me the ins & outs of the game.

[Fenrisulven6]

Yah, you're still cowering. You pop off about puggers, then when called on it you retreat behind weasel words and ad homs. Even with your guildies here backing you up, you don't have the stones to stand by what you said.

All I've been asking is that you explain the contradiction. Here it is again:


you should know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot.... [and] ...my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime. "

Explain how that does not mean you'd demand puggers drop group midquest for your guildies.
When you say "running with a group" you mean "standing outside the quest" ?
When you say "anytime" you mean "only before the quest starts" ?

Or continue to cower away.

[Accelerando]

Yah, you're still cowering. You pop off about puggers, then when called on it you retreat behind weasel words and ad homs. Even with your guildies here backing you up, you don't have the stones to stand by what you said.

All I've been asking is that you explain the contradiction. Here it is again:



Explain how that does not mean you'd demand puggers drop group midquest for your guildies.
When you say "running with a group" you mean "standing outside the quest" ?
When you say "anytime" you mean "only before the quest starts" ?

Or continue to cower away.


zzzzzzzz

I am starting to understand what is going on here. You have no real concept of pugging and running through multiple quests because every time you finish a quest the group just splits up. The part you aren't seeing is when they reform without you immediately afterwards. See with most people in this game, when they find a good solid group they tend to run several quests in a row, often a whole series on normal, then hard, then elite. Then maybe move onto another quest and do the same.

I am sorry groups keep leaving you in the dust, or asking you to leave in the middle of the dungeon. I really think you should just maybe practice harder, or play something easier than a cleric like a barb? Then maybe you will get a better idea of what EVERYONE ELSE in this thread is talking about.


Reading comprehension FTW. Welcome to ignore.

[Guaire]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results. "

-Benjamin Franklin

[Thriand]

Yah, you're still cowering. You pop off about puggers, then when called on it you retreat behind weasel words and ad homs. Even with your guildies here backing you up, you don't have the stones to stand by what you said. All I've been asking is that you explain the contradiction. Here it is again:

[quote=Accelerando] you should know if you are running with a group composed mostly of one guild that you are and should be instantly replaceable if one of their number comes on and needs your spot.... [and] ...my guildies take precedence over any pug in a group I am leading anytime. "

Explain how that does not mean you'd demand puggers drop group midquest for your guildies. When you say "running with a group" you mean "standing outside the quest" ?When you say "anytime" you mean "only before the quest starts" ?

Or continue to cower away.

I'm taking bets on how many more time Fenris is gonna quote the SAME thing before he realizes that hes taking out of context.

But if you wanna know what the next 100 posts in this thread look like it'll be something like this

XXXXXX player
you are an idiot you are taking what he said out of context.

Fenris
But he said *insert the same quote again* taken LITERALLY I'm right. You just need to stop being a coward and face that I know what you meant better than you do.


XXXXXX player
you are an idiot you are taking what he said out of context.

Fenris
But he said *insert the same quote again* taken LITERALLY I'm right. You just need to stop being a coward and face that I know what you meant better than you do.


XXXXXX player
you are an idiot you are taking what he said out of context.

Fenris
But he said *insert SAME freaking quote again*

rinse and repeat

[Fenrisulven6]

Welcome to ignore.

Yah, you promised me that about 4 pages ago.

Not keeping your word appears to be a pattern for you.

[Fenrisulven6]

...before he realizes that hes taking out of context.

Well Thri, it should be simple for you to explain how its been taken out of context...

Just as it would have been simple for him to explain 5 pages ago that its not what he meant.

[Accelerando]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results. "

-Benjamin Franklin

Ya G I can see that now. I just thought I could get through to the guy. That attitude of his is not going to get him far here.

Oh well, I tried.

[Guaire]

Ya G I can see that now. I just thought I could get through to the guy. That attitude of his is not going to get him far here.

Oh well, I tried.

Heya chief. Definitely wasn't a comment on you at all. Sorry bout that.

[Fenrisulven6]

That attitude of his is not going to get him far here.

My attitude? LOL. You're the one who popped off about puggers. Maybe you won't be so flippant next time.

But this is the part where your buds rally around and stroke you. Enjoy. Just make sure you're using protection.

[Samadhi]

"the Definition Of Insanity Is Doing The Same Thing Over And Over And
Expecting Different Results. "

-benjamin Franklin

Qft

[Logicman69]

Wow.. 7 pages! This has escalated to Kyber-sized drama.

Leave it to the good old boys in KaTet (and I need that with the utmost love)

[chester99]

anyone want to run the demon queen tonight?

[Logicman69]

anyone want to run the demon queen tonight?

I'd love too, but only if you promise to boot me mid-quest.. :-)

[wamjratl1]

nm.

[tyranthraxus]

Lol nope - it took a minute of digging - but he's on Thelanis

He's also on Argo it looks like..

[Fenrisulven6]

He's also on Argo it looks like.

Heh. Ghallanda too. No need to chase your tails.

All I was looking for was straight answer from Accelerando.

[CSFurious]

but, Einstein not Franklin said that


"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results. "

-Benjamin Franklin

[Bronko]

Smatt,

1. Did you ever think the day would come that KaTet and Thac0 were talked about in the same context? Kinda warms the belly doesn't it?

2. Remember the *****marked and put your Mr. Happy faces back in your posts,



commrade.

3. See Bronco, I told you Smatt would warm up to us.


Mod 9 will never get here because the world is obviously ending. We'll all be lucky to see another sunrise after what Coldest has just pointed out. The Apocalypse is upon us. Doom I say. Do-o-o-o-o-o-m!!!! :D

And I hate to perpetuate this thread but I have to ask: how did we manage to get to EIGHT FREAKIN' PAGES!?! Seriously. What is this Khyber-esque drama doing in our normally meek Ghallanda discussion area? :eek:

[smatt]

Mod 9 will never get here because the world is obviously ending. We'll all be lucky to see another sunrise after what Coldest has just pointed out. The Apocalypse is upon us. Doom I say. Do-o-o-o-o-o-m!!!! :D

And I hate to perpetuate this thread but I have to ask: how did we manage to get to EIGHT FREAKIN' PAGES!?! Seriously. What is this Khyber-esque drama doing in our normally meek Ghallanda discussion area? :eek:

Hmm... I'm thinking Argo-drama....... It went the way of kAttention seeking.......


Hasn't really been all that interesting though.... Not even close to a lock, or a delete.... Now "I" could get invovled.......... :D

[Coldest]

Hmm... I'm thinking Argo-drama....... It went the way of kAttention seeking.......


Hasn't really been all that interesting though.... Not even close to a lock, or a delete.... Now "I" could get invovled.......... :D

Settle down Francis before I smatt-slap you.

[Mike_Fun_Spot]

Hmm... I'm thinking Argo-drama....... It went the way of kAttention seeking.......


Hasn't really been all that interesting though.... Not even close to a lock, or a delete.... Now "I" could get invovled.......... :D

Well now i can get involved as well :), then we can really get this baby lock and deleted but if you are a good little boy ill tell you when mod 9 comes out lol.

Btw kAttention is quit clever, you must be having people write post for you :P.. B B B Booooyah!

[Coldest]

Hop on vent bro

[smatt]

Settle down Francis before I smatt-slap you.
Better watch it there Coldest..... I'll slap you and your whole little cabal down just like the last 5 times :D It takes at least the what 5 or 6 of you too even have a chance :cool: Oh wait nevermind you all bore me ;)

[Accelerando]

To flame or not to flame. That is the question.
Whether 'til nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous gimps
Or to take arms against a sea of gelatinous cubes
And by opposing end them. To /death, to /sleep
No more--and by a /sleep say we end
The headache, and the thousand Lig. II natural shocks
That KaTet is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To /death, to /sleep--
To /sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub,
For in that /sleep of /death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled of this immortal lag,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of such high hit points.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of KaTet's fame,
Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud child's contumely
The pangs of despised love, the EULAs delay,
The insolence of officers, and the spurns
That patient merit of th' unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after /death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all ;),
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprise of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action. -- Soft you now,
The fair Smatt! -- Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all thy sins remembered.

[ChaelaAnne]

To flame or not to flame. That is the question.
Whether 'til nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous gimps
Or to take arms against a sea of gelatinous cubes
And by opposing end them. To /death, to /sleep
No more--and by a /sleep say we end
The headache, and the thousand Lig. II natural shocks
That KaTet is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To /death, to /sleep--
To /sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub,
For in that /sleep of /death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled of this immortal lag,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of such high hit points.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of KaTet's fame,
Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud child's contumely
The pangs of despised love, the EULAs delay,
The insolence of officers, and the spurns
That patient merit of th' unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after /death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all ;),
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprise of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action. -- Soft you now,
The fair Smatt! -- Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all thy sins remembered.

**golfers clap**

[smatt]

To flame or not to flame. That is the question.
Whether 'til nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous gimps
Or to take arms against a sea of gelatinous cubes
And by opposing end them. To /death, to /sleep
No more--and by a /sleep say we end
The headache, and the thousand Lig. II natural shocks
That KaTet is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To /death, to /sleep--
To /sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub,
For in that /sleep of /death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled of this immortal lag,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of such high hit points.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of KaTet's fame,
Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud child's contumely
The pangs of despised love, the EULAs delay,
The insolence of officers, and the spurns
That patient merit of th' unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after /death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all ;),
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprise of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action. -- Soft you now,
The fair Smatt! -- Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all thy sins remembered.


Ha ha

[wamjratl1]

To flame or not to flame. That is the question.
Whether 'til nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous gimps
Or to take arms against a sea of gelatinous cubes
And by opposing end them. To /death, to /sleep
No more--and by a /sleep say we end
The headache, and the thousand Lig. II natural shocks
That KaTet is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To /death, to /sleep--
To /sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub,
For in that /sleep of /death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled of this immortal lag,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of such high hit points.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of KaTet's fame,
Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud child's contumely
The pangs of despised love, the EULAs delay,
The insolence of officers, and the spurns
That patient merit of th' unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after /death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all ;),
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprise of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action. -- Soft you now,
The fair Smatt! -- Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all thy sins remembered.

Something is rotten in Stormreach.

I just decided to roll a toon named Rosencrantz. (or probably Rosenqrantz cuz i got's to keep the Q alive)

[Accelerando]

Something is rotten in Stormreach.

I just decided to roll a toon named Rosencrantz. (or probably Rosenqrantz cuz i got's to keep the Q alive)

Nice lol.

[Coldest]

Better watch it there Coldest..... I'll slap you and your whole little cabal down just like the last 5 times :D It takes at least the what 5 or 6 of you too even have a chance :cool: Oh wait nevermind you all bore me ;)

Ye've done a good job going down on the whole cabal Smatt, I'll give ye that, but the only slapping going on at those parties was to yer backside. Like I said, settle down Francis.

[Gratch]

Just to answer the etiquette question:

1) Kick Gratch or his unlisted alts first to make room.
2) For the overbooked raids of Reaver or less, split it into two groups, make it a contest, speed run it, and the group done first rolls off and gets a Large Scale (or 2 if Junts) from whatever leader overbooked for whatever reason.
3) For overbooked VoD/Hound/Abbot/Shroud... see rule 2)
4) If rule 3) via rule 2) has you 6-manning VoD, bring scrolls of Summon Oddlived... or ya know... LFM.... or just DO IT.

[Return_To_Forever]

MEme me me me me me me me me me. So, ME. MEm I, I, I Me, We, not you.
Memmemem'e

Not you:confused:

mem emmememememe

ME:cool: I I I I is ME would, Us:rolleyes:

[smatt]

Ye've done a good job going down on the whole cabal Smatt, I'll give ye that, but the only slapping going on at those parties was to yer backside. Like I said, settle down Francis.


Oh dear Coldest, your little child accelerando and his not so sly musings are yet more proof that you are all so desperate for the attention you desperately seek :D If only only were special in some way... So that the many would actually take notice.... No my friend, you are all the same as so many others in game.... And only stand out on the forums....

And now for a little cookie to you :)

[Baranor]

ran out of popcorn just in time, this show is over

[wamjratl1]

ran out of popcorn just in time, this show is over

Yeah but I'm still goin' for 9.

EDIT: Ding. 9 pages!!!

[cpito]

woohoo! I'll /dance for 9.... 9!!! pages of...... ummm..... what brought us all here again? :p

[Accelerando]

woohoo! I'll /dance for 9.... 9!!! pages of...... ummm..... what brought us all here again? :p

I think it was festivus... that or a fifth of thai whiskey. Not sure which at this point.

[Logicman69]

I think it was festivus... that or a fifth of thai whiskey. Not sure which at this point.

**** Accelerado! Are you holding out on that Thai Wiskey again?? Pass that bottle!

[Accelerando]

**** Accelerado! Are you holding out on that Thai Wiskey again?? Pass that bottle!

I'm in Bangkok for a week and all you can think to ask for is a bottle of whiskey? :D

[Cold_Stele]

Woot I made Accelerando's sig!

[Aerniel]

I love looking back to this thread :rolleyes: