Level 9 and could use some advice

[Aganazer]

I play in a 4 player static party. So far we have been checking off every quest at each level before moving on to the next level's quests. Many of the level 9 and 10 quests we are taking now are significantly more difficult than anything we did at other levels.

In general I think we can handle these quests, but sometimes we need to try it more than once to learn the quest and even then there have been a couple we couldn't finish. The rewards seem to be getting slimmer and the consumables more expensive.

What I'd like to know is if quests continue to get more and more difficult with more fragile fail conditions and special requirements. I think I remember reading that levels 9-11 are some of the more difficult levels. Is it true?

Everyone in my group are new players. We aren't quite able to use or afford vorpal, disruption, smiting, banishing, or any other special weapons. Does having access to these weapons make a big difference?

We have been returning to lower level quests to reach level 10 and gear up better. We would like to experience all of the content without being carried or skipping much along the way. Do you have any general advice about how we should proceed?

[Demoyn]

I know it's hard for a new player to know the difference, but try to do the original content (Vault of the Night, Threnal) before the mod content (Gianthold, Necropolis). The older content was created for a time before all the special weapons were commonplace and thus they're on a better level for non-twinked characters.

[Belwaar]

^^ I agree with the above post. Do the "original" content, then move to the Desert for a bunch of good 9 - 11 content. Afterwards, try the Titan quests, which start in the Harbor then move to the Restless Isles. Then I'd go try the Necropolis quests, fiinally moving to Gianthold (you'll be there a while) :)

[Epox]

I know it's hard for a new player to know the difference, but try to do the original content (Vault of the Night, Threnal) before the mod content (Gianthold, Necropolis). The older content was created for a time before all the special weapons were commonplace and thus they're on a better level for non-twinked characters.

Actually, Vault of Night was part of Mod 1, not the original content.

Demoyn has a good point though - As more quests came out, the developers got more creative in how to slow down, confuse or kill the adventurers. In a way it makes end game more fun (for some) and challenging to play (end game 3 years ago was lvl 10). Don't give up though, Aganazer! At least you don't have the death penalty to worry about anymore. :)

-E

[Aganazer]

Thanks for the advice.

We just started working on some of the Restless Isles and it looked tough. We got to the isles and accepted one of the quests so we can teleport back. The ogres would tear up our DPS and even I, the intimitank, with 47 AC was taking a fair amount of damage.

The Vault of Night, Prisoner is one of the ones we put off since the first Beholder gave us some trouble. That was a couple levels ago and we could probably do better now.

The level 8 Necropolis quests were tough at first, but then I got a Phase Hammer with ghost touch and incorporeal bane and it almost made them too easy. They were still much harder than most other level 8 quests.

The Abandoned Keep quests were great until we got to the one where we had to keep Doyle alive against waves of enemies. There just wasn't enough DPS in our 4 players to keep up. Making level 10 with some gear upgrades should help.

So what's up with the Desert? Where is that and what level quests are there?

A lot of our problems may come from a lack of CC. We have no arcane caster. We usually bring a hireling along for Haste, but they are useless for CC. What alternatives do we have for crowd control? Sonic Burst, Paralyzing Weapons?

[Irongutz2000]

To get to the desert go to falconer's spire in the market place, in between house J an D, talk to the guy in the middle he will give u 2 options one for restless isles one for the desert. The quests r for when the cap was 12, so they range from 10-12?. Make sure u go to dorims map shop before trying these, they r hard to find LOL. They r fun an so so hard cheers.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks for the advice.

We just started working on some of the Restless Isles and it looked tough. We got to the isles and accepted one of the quests so we can teleport back. The ogres would tear up our DPS and even I, the intimitank, with 47 AC was taking a fair amount of damage.

The Vault of Night, Prisoner is one of the ones we put off since the first Beholder gave us some trouble. That was a couple levels ago and we could probably do better now.

The level 8 Necropolis quests were tough at first, but then I got a Phase Hammer with ghost touch and incorporeal bane and it almost made them too easy. They were still much harder than most other level 8 quests.

The Abandoned Keep quests were great until we got to the one where we had to keep Doyle alive against waves of enemies. There just wasn't enough DPS in our 4 players to keep up. Making level 10 with some gear upgrades should help.

So what's up with the Desert? Where is that and what level quests are there?

A lot of our problems may come from a lack of CC. We have no arcane caster. We usually bring a hireling along for Haste, but they are useless for CC. What alternatives do we have for crowd control? Sonic Burst, Paralyzing Weapons?

intimdate, with a tower shield, and a ss wand if you have one or can afford one

[Raithe]

What alternatives do we have for crowd control? Sonic Burst, Paralyzing Weapons?

I assume you have a cleric and meant Soundburst, the spell. Besides soundburst, there is also:

1) Command
2) Hold Person
3) Bestow Curse (debuff)
4) Holy Smite (blindness debuff)
5) Dismissal (instakill)
6) Greater Command
7) Slay Living (instikill)
8) Banishment (instikill)
9) Symbol of Fear
10) Symbol of Persuasion
11) Destruction (instikill)
12) Symbol of Stunning
13) Symbol of Weakness (debuff)

In addition, one of the more effective strategies in the game involves kiting mobs through maximized (possibly empowered) blade barriers, at least up until the colossal hp inflation of Mods 7 and 8 (levels 17-18).

[Arianrhod]

With my static group (5 players, no rich characters), we've been focusing on the "series" quests, doing the easier one-shots when we have less than a full group, or on off nights when we don't have as much time to play. We're basically doing them in this order:
WaterWorks
Shan-to Kor
Tangleroot
Necropolis "Heart" Tombs
Delera's
Graymoon/Cult of the Six
Necropolis "Shadow" Tombs (tough, but we really want the deathblock amulets before moving on to beholders)
Ruins of Threnal
Vault of Night

We're currently at level 9-10 and working on the Shadow Tombs - they're painful, but doable so far (we'll see how it goes when we get to Shadow Lord and Shadow King...). Hopefully by the time we finish VON 1-4 (we probably won't be able to do 5-6, due to the difficulty of putting together a PUG raid that will run them the way we like to play), we'll be ready for Restless Isles, Ataraxia's Haven and the Desert. After that, I'm looking forward to Gianthold and the Orchard of the Macabre, which from what I've read will be somewhat easier (for appropriately leveled characters) and more rewarding.

[Baron]

I play in a 4 player static party. So far we have been checking off every quest at each level before moving on to the next level's quests. Many of the level 9 and 10 quests we are taking now are significantly more difficult than anything we did at other levels.

In general I think we can handle these quests, but sometimes we need to try it more than once to learn the quest and even then there have been a couple we couldn't finish. The rewards seem to be getting slimmer and the consumables more expensive.

What I'd like to know is if quests continue to get more and more difficult with more fragile fail conditions and special requirements. I think I remember reading that levels 9-11 are some of the more difficult levels. Is it true?

Everyone in my group are new players. We aren't quite able to use or afford vorpal, disruption, smiting, banishing, or any other special weapons. Does having access to these weapons make a big difference?

We have been returning to lower level quests to reach level 10 and gear up better. We would like to experience all of the content without being carried or skipping much along the way. Do you have any general advice about how we should proceed?

Paralyzer is a real good weapon to help save on mana and control crowd if you fall back to a narrow point and block it with a a paralyzed mob and just start chopping wood. :p

Takes a little longer but less chance og getting overrun.

Good Luck and have fun.

[weyoun]

First let me say I think what you are doing is great. That's the way I first experienced DDO and there are some quests I haven't done in over two years. I go from Korthos to the Shroud in a long weekend so I miss all of that content.

There are several quests that are worth while for repeating, just because they drop some named loot or have some items that are not essential, but extremely useful, even to end-game. Here is my little list:

Visor of the Flesh Render Guard - death ward clicky, end reward, Tangleroot (I usually get two of these for every non-cleric)

Run the Xorian Cipher.
Planar Gird - random drop, green chest, Xorian Cipher. greater heroism clicky (I try to have at least one on every toon. The +4 to skills is key for UMD/Skill use and can often be the difference between success and failure)
Reavers Ring (iron chest, Xorian Cipher) are essential in the desert, where fear will kill you. Fear immunity is a must have out there.
Chaos Guarde, (green chest) +2 dodge, which is not as useful as it used to be but still a good item for a newb intimitank.

That's it. There are several other items that I could mention but none have the utility of a planar gird, especially at that content level. Good luck.

[Arianrhod]

Run the Xorian Cipher.
Planar Gird - random drop, green chest, Xorian Cipher. greater heroism clicky (I try to have at least one on every toon. The +4 to skills is key for UMD/Skill use and can often be the difference between success and failure)


Just a comment on this - Planar Gird is great to have, but it can take many XC runs to get one (and they go for millions of GP on the AH, so out of reach for most newer players to just buy). If you don't plan to run the same quest over and over (and XC is a fun quest, so it's worth running a few times), don't plan on having Planar Girds for all your characters. If you happen to get one, be happy :) If not, it's not worth beating yourself up to get. Run XC as many times as you enjoy it, but not so many times you get to hate an otherwise really fun quest ;)

[weyoun]

Just a comment on this - Planar Gird is great to have, but it can take many XC runs to get one (and they go for millions of GP on the AH, so out of reach for most newer players to just buy). If you don't plan to run the same quest over and over (and XC is a fun quest, so it's worth running a few times), don't plan on having Planar Girds for all your characters. If you happen to get one, be happy :) If not, it's not worth beating yourself up to get. Run XC as many times as you enjoy it, but not so many times you get to hate an otherwise really fun quest ;)

I got 3 in 8 runs last weekend. :P

[Arianrhod]

I got 3 in 8 runs last weekend. :P

Matter of perspective, I guess....8 runs of the same quest in one weekend would be way too many for me, no matter how much I like the quest :)

[Emili]

I play in a 4 player static party. So far we have been checking off every quest at each level before moving on to the next level's quests. Many of the level 9 and 10 quests we are taking now are significantly more difficult than anything we did at other levels.

They do tend to get more difficult as the shrine as a resource tends to be spred out and a greater mix of mob becomes more common. We had no auction house back when these were made and seeing a +5 anything on the vendor shops was extremely rare. Back before and after mod one these quests were more difficult for many of the vets then they are now.... we used more strategy to overcome them. I think they have much the same feel today.... but people are much more geared. These quests were beaten with know-how back then. Gear and spells took off with the comming of giant hold.

In general I think we can handle these quests, but sometimes we need to try it more than once to learn the quest and even then there have been a couple we couldn't finish. The rewards seem to be getting slimmer and the consumables more expensive.

The loot tables in these quests actually are in some places better and in others worse... The first tome I pulled was in Thrall, the first mith I got threnal east, the first PoP I got the giant caves and first +2 tome (which they do not drop in them anymore) was Von 4. One thing which helped the vets back then were many of the chained quests had static loot which defined a bottom line standard. You must remember back then our clerics lacked many spells could not buy many of the scrolls they use today, arcanes did not have firewall and many of todays staple spells (MM and Web were very popular) ... many of the spells were not yet in game. Many of the melee seldom carried potions as they could not afford them and was cheaper to buy a wand and hand it to a cleric.


What I'd like to know is if quests continue to get more and more difficult with more fragile fail conditions and special requirements. I think I remember reading that levels 9-11 are some of the more difficult levels. Is it true?

These are considered difficult levels due to the experience gap starts to become wider and many of the quests xp rewards are less given that gap. The large xp rewards are Thrall of the necromancer, Threnal East part 2, Von 3 and Von 5, CO6 as a chain and Xorian Cypher... Outside of Threnal East 2 and CO6 these quest can be quite difficult to those unfamiliar and not sporting the better gear. Thus requiring more strategy then previous quests.

Everyone in my group are new players. We aren't quite able to use or afford vorpal, disruption, smiting, banishing, or any other special weapons. Does having access to these weapons make a big difference?

These are common place now ... and actually break these quests in many ways. My strongest weapons were a +1 wounding long sword, +2 keen flametouch scimi, 2 retributions and a threnalian warblade. Power 5 weapons were extremely rare back when level cap was 10 but when one person had one in the group .... the group sped thru the quest. Without them strategy plays a more significant part of the outcome.

We have been returning to lower level quests to reach level 10 and gear up better. We would like to experience all of the content without being carried or skipping much along the way. Do you have any general advice about how we should proceed?

OK, a few things I recomend... the hearts quests - and latter shadow quest (necropolis) the silver flame trinket upgrades to a helpful necklace with charges to absorb beholder rays (which are prevalent in some of the 9-10 quests). Tangleroot... the end of this chain has a semi-static loot deathward clickie called flesh render visor - the only clickie in the game with this spell. Also, like I stated most those quests at level utilizing the typical items level 9-10 used back then took a more strategic approach. XC for a gird, reavers ring and chaos guarde...




... Back at level cap 10 most the populace hung around in the Threnal tent and Everfull Flagon. Threnal East part 2 (by repeating it) was a common quest to use to turn level nines into tens due to it's high xp/low time to do ratio... fact is I say that quest capped more older characters then any other in the game. The mephits are stronger then they used to be but all in all that one quest is laid out perfectly when a strategic plan is in place (as is von 3 but that's less repeatable). Paralyzers now are often vender fodder too so watch the house D shop.

The silver flame ammulets did not exist back then either... we fought beholders with Paladins and fighters wearing bloodplate and beholder rays shot thru walls so agro range was very important. Clerics and casters alike would stay back in case of a failed save in the melee... and the spells arcane casters had were of not much effect (only web was usable should they get one off.)

[weyoun]

Matter of perspective, I guess....8 runs of the same quest in one weekend would be way too many for me, no matter how much I like the quest :)

It took less than an hour, because I never finished the quest, just got the green key and looted, recalled and reformed. About 7 minutes per run, in total.

[Arianrhod]

It took less than an hour, because I never finished the quest, just got the green key and looted, recalled and reformed. About 7 minutes per run, in total.

It's not the time, it's the tedium - playing a game like a job (do X procedure Y number of times, repeat until desired result is achieved) just isn't my thing. Some people like it, and for them, loot runs and item farming are a perfectly good approach. I was just warning the OP that this could be part of the picture if he decides to try to get a Gird. If he likes to play that way, fine. If not, it's probably better not to count on getting one :)

[Kintro]

1) Command
2) Hold Person
3) Bestow Curse (debuff)
4) Holy Smite (blindness debuff)
5) Dismissal (instakill)
6) Greater Command
7) Slay Living (instikill)
8) Banishment (instikill)
9) Symbol of Fear
10) Symbol of Persuasion
11) Destruction (instikill)
12) Symbol of Stunning
13) Symbol of Weakness (debuff)


I'd like to elaborate a little on this:

1) Command
2) Hold Person
6) Greater Command
8) Banishment (instikill)
9) Symbol of Fear
10) Symbol of Persuasion
12) Symbol of Stunning

These spells are Will saves and work great on debilitating those hard hitting tank types. Greater command and symbol of stunning in particular.

7) Slay Living (instikill)
11) Destruction (instikill)

These spells are fort saves and work best against caster types. Destruct the casters/clerics in the back and your party will have a much easier time.

[weyoun]

It's not the time, it's the tedium - playing a game like a job (do X procedure Y number of times, repeat until desired result is achieved) just isn't my thing. Some people like it, and for them, loot runs and item farming are a perfectly good approach. I was just warning the OP that this could be part of the picture if he decides to try to get a Gird. If he likes to play that way, fine. If not, it's probably better not to count on getting one :)

True, its a necessity for me so this type of thing is unavoidable. Cheers.