Requesting Input - Pure Bard

[Riorik]

I've seen a million bards played in parties yet never really wanted to make one. However, it's sorta a gap in my options and every time I've tried a new type of character, it's always improved my own playing when I see them.

So - I'm open to input.

Pure Bard (to at least level 16 then see what gets released)
260HP + (prefer 300, 1 toughness at Level 16, BEFORE shroud/dragontouched items)
Haggle 50+ (no feats. Haggle as a bonus)
Warchanter
UMD (of course, it wouldn't be a bard without it)
+2 INT tome in the bank (others too but I'd probably grind it in the raids)
All game equipment available either by twink or raid or AH (shroud included)

The area I have the least experience in (never played one) would be the enhancement/PrE lines available to the Bards.

I'd kinda like to see two routes - one with a moderately good crowd control aspect and another that drives the character as a DPS build.

[Inspire]

This is my favorite template for a pure Bard, and most of my guildies have made their Bards off of this concept.

Inspire (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=150657)(16Brd)

[Riorik]

I appreciate it and like the build and it definately meets or exceeds my specs.
(I was leaving some flexibility on purpose, was curious which way tweaking would go)

Reading through the thread talking about it.
--SpPen 23+ isn't bad - not fabulous in the right range. Max is only 26+ anyways.
--I'm good with "moot" AC. I've got several characters that survive by HP, Buff & Twitch - got plenty of practice at it.
--A lot of the mid-level gear you suggest is sitting in the bank gathering dust.
--I'm not keen on 3 shroud items (other characters demand more attention for me) but that's quite obviously optional
--Have lots of hand-me-down Khopeshes & Bastard Swords

[maddmatt70]

This is my favorite template for a pure Bard, and most of my guildies have made their Bards off of this concept.

Inspire (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=150657)(16Brd)

Really.. None of my guildies or the people in our sister guild, Knights of the Phoenix, have made something like that build. They either made more of a pure battle bard: Rabiez, Salvane, Foc, etc.. Healing specced warchanter: mavnificio, dezzrick, Naakid, etc., or spellsinger cc/healer: Salvae, Hangover... If you are a raid oriented player either go more strength or more healing they are more effective at the current cap..

[Inspire]

I appreciate it and like the build and it definately meets or exceeds my specs.
(I was leaving some flexibility on purpose, was curious which way tweaking would go)

Reading through the thread talking about it.
--SpPen 23+ isn't bad - not fabulous in the right range. Max is only 26+ anyways.
--I'm good with "moot" AC. I've got several characters that survive by HP, Buff & Twitch - got plenty of practice at it.
--A lot of the mid-level gear you suggest is sitting in the bank gathering dust.
--I'm not keen on 3 shroud items (other characters demand more attention for me) but that's quite obviously optional
--Have lots of hand-me-down Khopeshes & Bastard Swords

I really have to update Inpire's build, Ill do that today.

[Inspire]

Really.. None of my guildies or the people in our sister guild, Knight of the Phoenix, have made something like that build. They either made more of a pure battle bard: Rabiez, Salvane, Foc, etc.. Healing specced warchanter: mavnificio, dezzrick, Naakid, etc., or spellsinger cc/healer: Salvae, Hangover... If you are a raid oriented player either go more strength or more healing they are more effective at the current cap..

Legion, what do we know.

Ps; Inspire uses Falchions and Greataxes now, will post in the Update.

[maddmatt70]

Legion, what do we know.

Ps; Inspire uses Falchions and Greataxes now, will post in the Update.

You obviously didn't do the numbers on your build as a guild. In a raid battle bards or healing specced warchanters are superior and here I thought Legion was all about raiding..

[Inspire]

You obviously didn't do the numbers on your build as a guild. In a raid battle bards or healing specced warchanters are superior and here I thought Legion was all about raiding..

Inspire is a battle bard... wait for it... wait for it... and healing spec'd! UBER!

[maddmatt70]

Inspire is a battle bard... wait for it... wait for it... and healing spec'd! UBER!

A healing bard without empower healing or quicken for that matter pfft = not a healing bard..

[Lifespawn]

came up 1 hp short of your 260 hp with +6 con gfl and minos next mod drops you will get 3 more hp so i will make it by 2.

the build is about dps since the other build was more cc oriented.

Human imp rec 2 and wand mastery 3 will make heal scrolling yourself a breeze 160+ per cast on yourself.

couldn't fit extend in there on the pure and still have khopesh 2 ftr lvls would help this build alot allowing you to get toughness and extend out of it and 1 more feat at 18 while still letting you get the tier 3 bard enhancment.(maybe oversized twf)

neway here u go.



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 16 Neutral Good Human Male
(16 Bard)
Hit Points: 164
Spell Points: 550
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 13
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 15 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 6 22
Bluff 6 24
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy 2 7
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 6 24
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 2 5
Jump 3 19
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 6 24
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 7
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 6 24

Notable Equipment
Ring: Ogre Power Ring
Necklace: Health Necklace
Cloak: Charismatic Cloak
Belt: Belt of Greater False Life

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Warchanter I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III

[lOprahl]

Legion, what do we know.



Apparently not very much about bards...that build is a mess. IMO

[EinarMal]

I agree with Maddmatt I would not follow Inspires build pretty sub par overall....

If you are going to make a Warchanter you should max out your strength and take TWF feats period.

[Inspire]

Apparently not very much about bards...that build is a mess. IMO

Updated, obviously its a mess. I built it.

[maddmatt70]

Updated, obviously its a mess. I built it.

Lol, buddy gave you props for your cleric build which is excellent especially for its purpose of either a vet running a 28 pt on a new server or a new player, but this build is meh..

[Inspire]

A healing bard without empower healing or quicken for that matter pfft = not a healing bard..

Her healing is set-up with Scrolls in one hand Sup Potency 6 in the other and Mass Cure Mod/Light.

Not optimal but better than most Warchanters. Inspire is designed to be the most versitile of Bard builds.

[Inspire]

but this build is meh..

Jack of all trades, master of none?

[Sequell]

Here is my TWF Bard build "Steel Chanter". I think he fits what you are looking for and more. As a dwarf you have more HP than a human and upgradeable damage for your Dwarf Axes. I can give the breakdowns if you want for this build. Hope you like it. :)

I didn't throw a +2 int tome before so you will have 1 more skill point per level. I only put a +1 Dex tome on the whole build so it should be quite cheap to be very effective.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 16 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(16 Bard)
Hit Points: 228
Spell Points: 450
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 13
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 16 17
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 12 13

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 7 26
Bluff 1 1
Concentration 3 4
Diplomacy 5 20
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 5 20
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 3 5
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 5 20
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 5
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 20

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Warchanter I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

[lOprahl]

Jack of all trades, master of none?


"Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Slash, Extend, Heighten, Improved Critical: Slash, Toughness, Spell Pen"

Your feat list made me cry bardic tears of "Why!!!!!!!!!"

[Inspire]

"Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Slash, Extend, Heighten, Improved Critical: Slash, Toughness, Spell Pen"

Your feat list made me cry bardic tears of "Why!!!!!!!!!"

Explanation?

[lOprahl]

Criticisms:
A Spell Pen Feat when you have 18 base charisma?
Wouldn't you rather have empower healing? Force of Personality? SF Enchant or GSF Enchant
Heighten on a WarChanter? Have you run a capped chanter without heighten...do you really see a palpable difference?

Suggestions: If you want a jack of all trades build...choosing a specialty such as warchanter, is counter-productive. Reclaim your feats! I can't imagine power attack is doing ya much good ;)


Ultimately I cried bardic tears, because I saw your the time you put into the build, and the extensive gear listing. I can tell you have spent alot of time and energy in putting it together. Rebuild Him! Make Him Stronger! Reap the Loot and Glory you deserve!!

[wak]

Criticisms:
A Spell Pen Feat when you have 18 base charisma?
Wouldn't you rather have empower healing? Force of Personality? SF Enchant or GSF Enchant
Heighten on a WarChanter? Have you run a capped chanter without heighten...do you really see a palpable difference?

Suggestions: If you want a jack of all trades build...choosing a specialty such as warchanter, is counter-productive. Reclaim your feats! I can't imagine power attack is doing ya much good ;)


Ultimately I cried bardic tears, because I saw your the time you put into the build, and the extensive gear listing. I can tell you have spent alot of time and energy in putting it together. Rebuild Him! Make Him Stronger! Reap the Loot and Glory you deserve!!


To help the situation, what do you suggest? How would you build the ultimate bard, and why?

[Inspire]

Criticisms:
A Spell Pen Feat when you have 18 base charisma?

What does Spell Penetration have to do with Charisma?

36 Charisma at endgame, I have no trouble landing spells on mobs without blanket immunities. You obviously dont fight many mobs with SR because every little bit of spell pen helps, since Bards have very few spells that ignore SR completly... but I assume you already knew that.


Wouldn't you rather have empower healing? Force of Personality? SF Enchant or GSF Enchant
Heighten on a WarChanter? Have you run a capped chanter without heighten...do you really see a palpable difference?

Empower Healing isnt needed because most of Inspire's healing comes in scroll form.

Force of Personality is a waste of a feat IMO, how many will saves have you made recently? Perhaps a Greater Command in Prey on the Hunter?... UBER. If in M9 all the mob casters cast Will based enchantments, then I may consider it. Inpsire's will save is 21 before buffs.

To help with our current endgame? Most mobs have blanket immunites vs Enchantment, perhaps you didnt notice.

Heighten, absolutley, Inspire can dish out any spell typically 1 Dc lower than a Spellsinger, Mindfog and Glitterdust is a deadly combination you should give it a whirl without Heighten and see how many mobs are hit by Glitterdust. A combo made all the more sweet when most DPS toons use Thranes goggles. Also Hypnotism is still an excellent CC spell for mobs who arent immune.

I have been considering taking Quicken over Spell Penetration recently.


Suggestions: If you want a jack of all trades build...choosing a specialty such as warchanter, is counter-productive.

How so? to have the highest damaging songs for a party buff seems pretty decent to me. And my spell Dc's are only 1 off of a Spellsinger. But enlighten me, how is Warchanter counter productive?


Reclaim your feats! I can't imagine power attack is doing ya much good ;)

Why not? The extra 5 damage per swing on boss mobs espcially, helps alot... unless you think I crafted a Lightning2 falchion for its looks...


Ultimately I cried bardic tears, because I saw your the time you put into the build, and the extensive gear listing. I can tell you have spent alot of time and energy in putting it together. Rebuild Him! Make Him Stronger! Reap the Loot and Glory you deserve!!

She works fine, obviously you havent run with her. So I dont blame ya for linear thinking.

[Soul-Shaker]

To OP I wouldnt even consider CC a route end game like some have posted. Most bard spells have SR checks and bard sr checks are naturally lower then clr/sorc/wiz. And their dcs are lower. As you reach higher content, they either have way to high saves or are immune like a few stated.

So the 2 routes I would have to say is raid healer or battle bard. If your a raid heavy person who would be doing something interesting as elite shroud speed run record attempts, each would have their place.

A raid healer spec if they don't mind chugging sp pots on elite raids/mission for example should have no problems being 1 of the 2 healers in the raid using mass cures and scrolling mass cures. This leads to groups like 9 melee, 1clr, 1 healer bard, 1 other melee or caster.

A battle spec is usually great all round if in groups or raid. Their healing might be weaker but with the same cure mass /scrolling chain and little more pots they can cover healing just as well, but just means they have to drink little more sp pots if they have to fit healing roll. But most cases you would count yourself as one of the dps melee which leads to 9 melee, 2clr, 1 battle bard, 1 caster or melee.

Both are a great asset over typical 8melee, 2clr, 1 buff/cc bard, 1 caster or melee since you now have a extra melee doing dmg and being buffed by a courage for even more dmg.

So the ultimate would have to be human twf battle bard 16(so can get second mass cure spell) for current cap. maddmatt70's raibez is good reference build for that.

As for the few that compared spell singer vs warchanter spec, the difference in SP isnt special unless your a casual player.
Spell singer takes mental toughness (10 + 5x15 = 85).
Spell singer save about 130sp due to 10% discount on spells (saying ave 1300 sp pool on bard).
Spell singer gets a 100sp boost for spell singer itself.

So a spell singer that also costs a bunch more useless AP to get will only have about 300-350 sp difference in the end. Which is 1 mana pot.... The +1 dc means little to self (good other casters thatll kill trash for you). And the discount doesn't help that much except if doing many small quests. While the warchanter gives +2 dmg or +4 to twfers which adds up greatly in raids. Also the 5dr/- warchanter song will easily add up to 350 sp saved in the long run. They need to make spell singer II/III really worth something...

[Riorik]

Awww, man - you're going to make me have to dig up a fourth set of piercing spec weapons....

I've always thought about that aspect that heighten doesn't have anywhere near the utility on a character that has a maximum of 6 spell levels compared to 9. I love what Heighten does to web even now, and it would be a bonus even here, but still...

So I guess ITWF is as far as Rabiez goes because of Dex limitations. I don't remember, if a +4 tome comes in, is GTWF allowed at Dex19?

I'd like to see more haggle (yeah, my existing haggle character isn't so hot and I've never been willing to clear a character slot to fix it) - but that's fixable with an INT tome without changing any stats.

Between my other characters and a very busy schedule, I really don't have the time to get this build to 16 before the likely release date of Mod9 (assuming May 1) - I can just pace myself which would give me lots of opportunities to alter the build in progress.

You know, I've got crowd controllers and a healbot, an intimitank, a couple twf melee & an old 28pt frankenstein that I just love to play. I remember seeing my first battlebard a couple years ago when the cap was merely 12...and being impressed watching him keep up with two of the top dps builds in my guild at the time...even better, the entire group burned through everything faster from his songs.

Well built battle-bards rock. I was thinking that I'd tweak this and tweak that...but you know what, I made this post for a reason - that I didn't really understand the nuances of actually playing a BattleBard. It's probably time to just trust you and go for it.

[Soul-Shaker]

Awww, man - you're going to make me have to dig up a fourth set of piercing spec weapons....

I've always thought about that aspect that heighten doesn't have anywhere near the utility on a character that has a maximum of 6 spell levels compared to 9. I love what Heighten does to web even now, and it would be a bonus even here, but still...

So I guess ITWF is as far as Rabiez goes because of Dex limitations. I don't remember, if a +4 tome comes in, is GTWF allowed at Dex19?

I'd like to see more haggle (yeah, my existing haggle character isn't so hot and I've never been willing to clear a character slot to fix it) - but that's fixable with an INT tome without changing any stats.

Between my other characters and a very busy schedule, I really don't have the time to get this build to 16 before the likely release date of Mod9 (assuming May 1) - I can just pace myself which would give me lots of opportunities to alter the build in progress.

You know, I've got crowd controllers and a healbot, an intimitank, a couple twf melee & an old 28pt frankenstein that I just love to play. I remember seeing my first battlebard a couple years ago when the cap was merely 12...and being impressed watching him keep up with two of the top dps builds in my guild at the time...even better, the entire group burned through everything faster from his songs.

Well built battle-bards rock. I was thinking that I'd tweak this and tweak that...but you know what, I made this post for a reason - that I didn't really understand the nuances of actually playing a BattleBard. It's probably time to just trust you and go for it.

Rabiez is a old build and just ment for you to use as a reference. ITWF and GTWF actually both have a dex req of 17 he has both. Also +4 tomes I can forsee in the future due to festival token turn in gave someone a +4 tome.... **** those lucky ppl.

Im waiting on more info for warchanter/spell singer II/III before I decide if I would make another bard but if I would make another now with next mod in mind.

human 18 bard warchanter and last 2 lvls undecided. Thinking 2 ftr just in case warchanter II or III requires more feats.
16 str
14 dex(then use a +3 dex tome unbound dex tome hopefully to be found next mod)
14 con
12 int
8 wis
14 cha

All lvls into str

feats
PA, Weapon focus, extend, IC: , TWF, ITWF, GTWF, toughness. If 2 ftr Khopesh and something.

main skills
concentration, umd, haggle, tumble, balance, perform. and some in other places.

[EinarMal]

Just an FYI Bards have the same SR check as any other caster so that info is wrong from the other poster.

[Riorik]

Yeah, I know on the spell penetration. Bards are fine there but there's a huge difference between a SpPen20+ versus SpPen25+ baseline when facing targets with SR25-30 or higher. I think he was confusing spell DC's and the use of heighten - because bards are capped at 6 spell levels, they can't benefit as much from it as a caster that can access level 8/9 spells.

I think I'm tempted with the Rabiez build (enough that I just rolled a level 1 but I'm probably going to re-roll it solely to change the name slightly). Only thing I noticed is something I suspected - you can't buy Weapon Focus unless you're BAB+1 - and I didn't see a toughness feat in that mix of feats.

I also kinda like this:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172958

Although it's got a Fighter splash - that's easy to drop or take late. I think I could be tempted with a Rgr6 splash for tempest. Looking a lot like I just need to start the character and see how I like playing it; and take it slow enough that I preserve options until Mod9 (and the later capstones) info is released. As much as I sorta dislike playing dwarves (just appearance!), the free DA is appealing and I can live without HumanVersatility although I'd miss adaptability & (self) healing.

[lOprahl]

What does Spell Penetration have to do with Charisma?


If you start with Max Charisma, in terms of maximizing a feat, SF/GSF Enchantment would seem to be efficient use of a feat, since you love your heightened mindfog glitterdust...



Force of Personality is a waste of a feat IMO

Just a suggestion...by the looks of your build it seemed like an improvement.


Heighten, absolutley, Inspire can dish out any spell typically 1 Dc lower than a Spellsinger, Mindfog and Glitterdust is a deadly combination you should give it a whirl without Heighten and see how many mobs are hit by Glitterdust.

You've reduced your bard to a enervated wizzy...




I have been considering taking Quicken over Spell Penetration recently.

What would be the point, other then speeding up the glitterdust / mind fog cast times.

Its not that your build is gimped bro. You have created a JackofAll trades bard that will cease to be relevant after the level increase, if he is relevant at all. Your casting, fighting, and healing are all 2nd tier. The only thing not second tier is your buffs, but well, thats a given or any 14th level warchanter, and even then, with only lingering II, your songs are short.

Bard Wand Mastery I & II...you have some more work to do

[Inspire]

If you start with Max Charisma, in terms of maximizing a feat, SF/GSF Enchantment would seem to be efficient use of a feat, since you love your heightened mindfog glitterdust...

Bard Capstone will help alot, as does Dreamspitter/Staff of the Petitioner(Sp?)... I dont see any reason to waste a feat on those when I land them without difficulty, currently.


Just a suggestion...by the looks of your build it seemed like an improvement.

Thatnks for the suggestion but you simply dont have to make enough Will saves at our current endgame to waste a feat on it.


You've reduced your bard to a enervated wizzy...

I guess, if evervated Wizzys could Heal/Melee/CC/Buff with songs.../etc.


What would be the point, other then speeding up the glitterdust / mind fog cast times.

MCMW, Irresistable Dance, and Hypnotism come to mind.


Its not that your build is gimped bro. You have created a JackofAll trades bard that will cease to be relevant after the level increase, if he is relevant at all. Your casting, fighting, and healing are all 2nd tier. The only thing not second tier is your buffs, but well, thats a given or any 14th level warchanter, and even then, with only lingering II, your songs are short.

Your right that my casting, fighting, and healing is second tier I wont out DPS Barbarians or Paladins or Rangers etc, but this build can fit any role the party needs... but hey, dont take my word for it come over to Thelanis and see for yourself.

Your problem is, you think we're always going to be lvl 16... at level 20 Bards get an extra to hit and damage from thier songs so those 14Brd/2Ftr or whatever splash are going to be lacking in that area, also we have no idea what Warchanter/Spellsinger/Virtuoso II or III will be and Inspire has the potential to excell in all three of the PrE's should Warchanter be less optimal than it is at 20.


Bard Wand Mastery I & II...you have some more work to do

Obviously, 16Ap to go.

[Inspire]

To OP I wouldnt even consider CC a route end game like some have posted. Most bard spells have SR checks and bard sr checks are naturally lower then clr/sorc/wiz. And their dcs are lower. As you reach higher content, they either have way to high saves or are immune like a few stated.

This is not true at all, the Bard Capstone further proves this.

[lOprahl]

Your problem is, you think we're always going to be lvl 16... at level 20 Bards get an extra to hit and damage from thier songs so those 14Brd/2Ftr or whatever splash are going to be lacking in that area, also we have no idea what Warchanter/Spellsinger/Virtuoso II or III will be and Inspire has the potential to excell in all three of the PrE's should Warchanter be less optimal than it is at 20.


Is this your rationalization for this build?

[Inspire]

Is this your rationalization for this build?

Am I that transparent?

[lOprahl]

:) Well Played Sir

[Inspire]

I have my moments, even if they are further and far between than Id like. :D