Green Steel Rapier suggestions...

[SniptheShadow]

I just finished my first Shroud to completion last week. I'll be going in as soon as time allows again soon.

As of this post, I don't even have my Green Steel blank created, but I was hoping for a few suggestions on rapiers for my rogue first anyway.

I'm still reading up on crafting and trying to figure it all out, but if anyone has a good green steel rapier story and/or suggestions for the best one for all purpose fights, I'd appreciate it.

I was thinking about acid damage and going from there, but nothing is set in stone.

Thanks everyone

Snip

[Impaqt]

There is no option for a Rogues first GS.

You must Craft Radiance.

Do not deviate from this "Suggestion"

it really is that good.

[Delt]

Oh a mostly-rogue, radiance is the no-brainer. Anything besides that depends heavily on your needs/build.

[Timjc86]

Absolutely a radiance. No question. It's really that good.

Edit: If you've got the time, it may also be worth leveling up other characters solely for the purpose of farming more ingredients. I'm bringing up a second ranger almost just for that purpose. FE: EOs & Constructs = cheap, easy, and effective shroud dps

[Gryphton]

^^^^ What everyone else said

[Deathseeker]

Just because it will get boring if everyone suggests a radiance rapier...

Build a Min II rapier for red-named boss fights.

And do this immediately...well, immediately AFTER you make your radiance rapier first...it really is that good...

[Impaqt]

Just because it will get boring if everyone suggests a radiance rapier...

Build a Min II rapier for red-named boss fights.

And do this immediately...well, immediately AFTER you make your radiance rapier first...it really is that good...

If your a STR based rogue, I agree, a Mineral II can be quite nice... But for a Dex rogue, I wouldnt build a Min II. Even though your SA is subject to DR as well, its still not as noticeable if your gettin those sneak attacks in. I'd stick with a Transmuter of PG for most raid boss's and your in decent shape.

[Draccus]

*A tall man in shining platemail with a shield strapped to one arm and a long sword in his hand steps up."

"Greetings young man! I understand you are looking for suggestions for a weapon with which to dispatch the great evil walking our lands. I applaud and support your decision to purge mother Eberron of this foul plague of vile villany and suggest you craft a Pos-Pos-Pos weapon of Holy...gggllluuurrrgh"

*before the man can finish, the tip of a gleaming rapier explodes out of his chest with a flash of light. The rapier is withdrawn as quickly as it appeared and the platemail-clad knight slumps to the ground in a heap, dead. Behind his corpse, you see a cloaked drow elf carefully wiping the gore from the blade of said rapier.*

"Make a Radiance II. It will change your life forever." the drow says before disappearing again into the shadows.

[Deathseeker]

If your a STR based rogue, I agree, a Mineral II can be quite nice... But for a Dex rogue, I wouldnt build a Min II. Even though your SA is subject to DR as well, its still not as noticeable if your gettin those sneak attacks in. I'd stick with a Transmuter of PG for most raid boss's and your in decent shape.

Interesting point...just thinking out loud...

If you have a difference of 14 strength between the Dex based and Str based rogue (I just picked a number, feel free to disagree with that assumption), that would be 7 base dmg per swing. Other than that, what else would be dramatically different between the two builds? If the Pit Fiend has a 15 DR on normal (as an example), the Transmuting from the Greensteel is worth exactly 15 pts per swing (as I assume even a dex rogue is doing more than 15 per swing of base damage). What other weapon delivers that type of damage per swing above and beyond the Min II?

If lightning strike hits for 600 pts 3% of the time, then that's 18 per swing, so that's close I guess (though I read it's between 2% and 3%, but who knows). The radiance on a crit is worth 3.5 x 4 = 14 pts per swing, but it only crits 30% of the time (does fortification prevent the light damage on a crit? I assume not).

So vs. a rednamed mob, seems like the only difference between the value of transmuting between a dex build and a str build would be their difference in base damage, but ONLY if the dex build does less base dmg than the DR. Otherwise, the transmuting is equal in value to the DR its overcoming.

Example...

If the pit fiend has a 15 DR, and the strength based toon puts out an average of 30 pts of base damage a swing, then the transmuting is worth 15 pts per swing (because it eliminates the DR). If the Dex build averages 23 points of base damage per swing, the transmuting is still worth 15 pts per swing isnt it?

Now, if the mob had a 30 DR, the transmuting would be worth 30 per swing on the Str build, but only 23 on the dex build above. But once you start talking about numbers that big, doesnt the mineral II blow away all other items at that point...it just blows the competition away a little less on the Dex build?

Guess my question is why the Strength difference matters to the Min II's effectiveness, as by the time the difference is noticable, the DR its bypassing is so high that no other weapon can compare?

This of course is assuming a red named mob where blinding is irrelevant.

And this is all quick thinking while typing, so I may be missing something silly in the above...

EDIT: This is all for fun analysis though, as I am obviously ignoring the cost of the item in ingredients, which makes the +5 Transmuter of PG look like a decent alternative when looking at cost. But am more curious about the Dex vs Str aspect...

[SniptheShadow]

My rogue is a Dex based TWF type, so it reads like the Radiance II is the way to go.

Down the road I'd love one in each hand - of course.

But let me simply figure out crafting first.

And gather my ingredients...

Thanks everyone

Snip

[Impaqt]

Interesting point...just thinking out loud...

If you have a difference of 14 strength between the Dex based and Str based rogue (I just picked a number, feel free to disagree with that assumption), that would be 7 base dmg per swing. Other than that, what else would be dramatically different between the two builds? If the Pit Fiend has a 15 DR on normal (as an example), the Transmuting from the Greensteel is worth exactly 15 pts per swing (as I assume even a dex rogue is doing more than 15 per swing of base damage). What other weapon delivers that type of damage per swing above and beyond the Min II?

If lightning strike hits for 600 pts 3% of the time, then that's 18 per swing, so that's close I guess (though I read it's between 2% and 3%, but who knows). The radiance on a crit is worth 3.5 x 4 = 14 pts per swing, but it only crits 30% of the time (does fortification prevent the light damage on a crit? I assume not).

So vs. a rednamed mob, seems like the only difference between the value of transmuting between a dex build and a str build would be their difference in base damage, but ONLY if the dex build does less base dmg than the DR. Otherwise, the transmuting is equal in value to the DR its overcoming.

Example...

If the pit fiend has a 15 DR, and the strength based toon puts out an average of 30 pts of base damage a swing, then the transmuting is worth 15 pts per swing (because it eliminates the DR). If the Dex build averages 23 points of base damage per swing, the transmuting is still worth 15 pts per swing isnt it?

Now, if the mob had a 30 DR, the transmuting would be worth 30 per swing on the Str build, but only 23 on the dex build above. But once you start talking about numbers that big, doesnt the mineral II blow away all other items at that point...it just blows the competition away a little less on the Dex build?

Guess my question is why the Strength difference matters to the Min II's effectiveness, as by the time the difference is noticable, the DR its bypassing is so high that no other weapon can compare?

This of course is assuming a red named mob where blinding is irrelevant.

And this is all quick thinking while typing, so I may be missing something silly in the above...

EDIT: This is all for fun analysis though, as I am obviously ignoring the cost of the item in ingredients, which makes the +5 Transmuter of PG look like a decent alternative when looking at cost. But am more curious about the Dex vs Str aspect...

Excellent breakdown, You sir are, of course, correct.

My contention is that many Dex based rogues simply aren't as concerned about their DPS. I probably could of qualified my comment better. A Basic Transmuter will keep all their numbers Red without spending 24 Large Ingrediants.

Against most mobs, Radiance + Crippling strike will be all a Dex based rogue requires.

[Timjc86]

Interesting point...just thinking out loud...
[snip]

You are correct in that the damage value of the "transmuting" property is equal to a character's base damage, up to 15 (against Harry on normal). If a dex-based character does at least 15 base damage, then transmuting is valued just as highly to that character as to a barbarian that hits 50+ strength when raging.

IF I remember correctly, a lightning strike weapon is comparable (if not a teeny bit better) than a mineral II against Harry on normal, but the mineral II wins out on hard and elite. The only explanation I can think of is that Harry's DR goes up with the difficulty of the raid.

Edit: To second Impaqt, unless you're going for a speed run (< 40-45min) a high + transmuter is perfectly acceptable for Harry, especially if you don't just happen to have the spare large ingredients just lying around.

[Delt]

[snip]

What you say makes sense...

But, the majority of rogs dps is coming off the sneak attacks, whether they have min II's or muckbanes...so unless someone is drowning in Larges, it's hard to justify popping 24 larges down for a lil extra proc (over a straight Trans of PG). They honestly probably get more substantial use outta x3 water (fire ele) or x3 Good (portal beaters), 2 areas the rog can struggle in. Obviously, we are just talkin on normal here.

[jarlaxle_dourden]

Can anyone here post the recipe for radiance 2?

I have the crafting tool but I don't see anything about building a radiance 2 wep.

Ty ...

[Impaqt]

What you say makes sense...

But, the majority of rogs dps is coming off the sneak attacks, whether they have min II's or muckbanes...so unless someone is drowning in Larges, it's hard to justify popping 24 larges down for a lil extra proc (over a straight Trans of PG). They honestly probably get more substantial use outta x3 water (fire ele) or x3 Good (portal beaters), 2 areas the rog can struggle in. Obviously, we are just talkin on normal here.

Not really true.

When a Rogue does damage, the Sneak attack, if he gets it, counts as "Base" damage. so if hes not breaking DR with his primary attack, the DR rolls over into the sneak attack damage.

So if a 10 STR Rogue hits for say, 5 points of base damage, against a Mob with DR 15 they lose the base 5 damage AND 10 points off their sneak attack. IF they get their sneak attack...

Which is why I recomended the Transmuter....

[Timjc86]

Can anyone here post the recipe for radiance 2?

I have the crafting tool but I don't see anything about building a radiance 2 wep.

Ty ...

Best planner I've found (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/).

Pick the weapon you want to make from weapon drop-down box, click Go, and Radiance is the third option from the far right column.

[Timjc86]

When a Rogue does damage, the Sneak attack, if he gets it, counts as "Base" damage. so if hes not breaking DR with his primary attack, the DR rolls over into the sneak attack damage.

Wow, really? I had no idea. (Not trying to be sarcastic, really had no clue). That's pretty interesting....

[Deathseeker]

Not really true.

When a Rogue does damage, the Sneak attack, if he gets it, counts as "Base" damage. so if hes not breaking DR with his primary attack, the DR rolls over into the sneak attack damage.

So if a 10 STR Rogue hits for say, 5 points of base damage, against a Mob with DR 15 they lose the base 5 damage AND 10 points off their sneak attack. IF they get their sneak attack...

Which is why I recomended the Transmuter....

You raise a really good point Impaqt that I never really thought about. In mod 9, when the cap increases, we could see mobs with DR like the Pit Fiends on hard or elite (I think this is like 30 and 60). I always thought the sneak attack damage was after the DR (which now that I think about it was a poor assumption on my part). So yeah, those transmuters or holy silver or cold iron/pure good are gonna be critical in those situations. Doesnt mean a Min II is the answer (because when cost comes into play a +5 Transmuter of PG isnt too shabby), but definitely wont want to leave home without something to bypass DR.

On the other hand, if we see a lot of mobs with DR that is unpassable, the transmuting ability will be useless, and that will make a lot of Min II's nowhere near as attractive as they are today.

In fact, as a side note, unpassable DR may bring the high "damage per swing" builds more in flavor and lessen the desire for high swing count builds (ie tempest III ).

Will be really interesting what the new mod brings in terms of mobs and how it may completely change our assumptions about weapons and maybe even builds.

Maybe they'll throw a bunch of Elven Mindflayers at us that are neutral good, immune to acid and lightning, and have 100% fortification and 50 DR, but susceptable to cold damage and blunt...just to really mess with us! :eek:

+5 Icy Burst Byshek Warhammer of Greater Elven Bane ftw!

[Delt]

Not really true.

When a Rogue does damage, the Sneak attack, if he gets it, counts as "Base" damage. so if hes not breaking DR with his primary attack, the DR rolls over into the sneak attack damage.

So if a 10 STR Rogue hits for say, 5 points of base damage, against a Mob with DR 15 they lose the base 5 damage AND 10 points off their sneak attack. IF they get their sneak attack...

Which is why I recomended the Transmuter....

Well, I threw in "muckbanes" simply for effect, lol, I don't suggest using them. As for the DR vs. sneak - I didn't know that as I've never encountered it on my new rogue. I actually figured it was untyped bonus/roll and therefore independant of DR mechanics - primarily because I don't ever recall it displaying as anything other than a red number.

[Impaqt]

Well, I threw in "muckbanes" simply for effect, lol, I don't suggest using them. As for the DR vs. sneak - I didn't know that as I've never encountered it on my new rogue. I actually figured it was untyped bonus/roll and therefore independant of DR mechanics - primarily because I don't ever recall it displaying as anything other than a red number.

You are correct, it doesnt ever show up as yellow. Coding bug?

It rarely comes into play for most rogue/enemies. The biggest dr we usually see is DR15 against targets that can be sneak attacked. Even on the devils, if your using a Holy weapon your at least bypassing half the DR.

It becomes very obvious when your on hard/elite.

[tihocan]

Down the road I'd love one in each hand - of course.
Actually no, you only want one. You better be using a good DPS weapon in your other hand (mineral II / lightning strike), or even earthgrab.

[tihocan]

Can anyone here post the recipe for radiance 2?

I have the crafting tool but I don't see anything about building a radiance 2 wep.

Ty ...
For a rapier (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/cgi-bin/shroud.cgi?item=item&weapon=rapier&effects=radiance_&altar=3).

[techkitten]

Isn't Mod 9 nerfing the transmuters? I would love to have the Trans of PG but do not want to spend the ingredients if trans will not be as effective after the mod. Please help direct me, as my rogue has a Rad II (love it) but desires another rapier :)

[QuantumFX]

BAH! Tricked by a thread necro!


Can anyone here post the recipe for radiance 2?

I have the crafting tool but I don't see anything about building a radiance 2 wep.

Ty ...

For my assassin I went +6 INT (Fire)/Good Burst (Positive)/+2 INT (Fire + Positive) for my first Radience II weapon. For my second I went Holy (Positive)/Flaming Burst (Fire)/ Flaming Blast (Fire + Positive) They rarely leave his hands.

[tihocan]

Isn't Mod 9 nerfing the transmuters? I would love to have the Trans of PG but do not want to spend the ingredients if trans will not be as effective after the mod. Please help direct me, as my rogue has a Rad II (love it) but desires another rapier :)
It will nerf transmuters, but it will make mineral II weapons even more desirable (because they aren't nerfed as much as other nice transmuters like transmuters of greater bane, that lack good alignment).