The Ultimate Paladin: Dual Kopesh Knight of the Chalice

[Impaqt]

So with Mod 9 around the corner I decided to try my hand at creating a Paly. It certainly appears the paly is coming of age. All the small improvements over the years have culminated into a character that will be highly effective in Mod 9. Quite posibly the Highest potential DPS in the game.
This guy is just Sick. I squeezed in every posible Damage enhancement I could. It took some time to figure out the progression for the enhancements. So many paly enhancements have high "Action points Spent" prereqs.

I'm In Awe. 400 Points of damage in a single swing is realistic on a crit with a bursting weapon. :eek: The damage I calculated so far doesnt even include Rage effects.

yeah, I dropped a Full set of +2 TOmes on him, Figured on a Couple +3's even, but in mod 9, those should be a bit easier to come by I expect.

Well... I wanna roll one...... How bout you?

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points:
20 Heroic Durability
200 L20 Paly
120 Con Bonus
20 Minos Legens
22 Toughness
40 TOughness Enh
30 GFL
---
452 Hit Points

Spell Points: Enough

BAB: 20/20 20/20 25/25 30/30 30/30

20 BAB
10 STR Bonus
5 Weapon
3 Divine Favor
1 Haste
--
+39
-2/-2 TWF
---
+37 Self Buffed Min
-5 PA
----
+32
4 GH
5 Bard Song
2 Recitation
--
+43 First Swing with common Buffs
+18 to Hit For Exhaulted SMites

Damage:
4.5 Avg Kopesh
5 base Weapon
10 STR Bonus
3 Divine Favor
6 Divine Might
5 Power Attack
---
33.5 Avg Swing Before any Paly Smite/PrE/Capstone
+20 Exhaulted Smite Crit on a 15-20 for a 5X Multiplier.
---
250pt Avg Crit Smite, No Bard Buffs, over 300 with Bard Buffs. should be realistic.

+4d6 vs Evil Outsiders {PrE}
+9d6 Divine Sacrifices {Enhancemnts}
+2d6 Evil Outsiders/Undead{Capstone}
+1d6 Good Damage{Capstone}
+ Weapon Effects like Holy/Holy Burst, Pure Good, Greater Banes, etc etc etc.

Translation: Thats some Sick damage. Especially considering Evil outsiders are going to be the Predominate Mob come mod 9

Fortitude: 37
Reflex: 31
Will: 27
12/6/6 Base Saves
6/6/3 Attribute Bonus
9/9/9 Divine Grace
2/2/2 AUra
5/5/5 Resistance Item
2/2/2 Luck
1/1/1 Resistacne Ritual
------
37/31/28 Before Buffs


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
{30}Strength 16 +5 Levels +6 Item +3 Tome
{23}Dexterity 15 +2 Tome +6 Item
{22}Constitution 14 +2 Tome +6 Item
{16}Intelligence 8 +2 Tome+6 Item as Needed
{16}Wisdom 8+2 Tome +6 Item
{28}Charisma 15+3 Tome +3 Paly +1 Human +6 Item

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 5 12.5

Jump 4 14

Use Magic Device 11 Ranks

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 2 (Paladin)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 4 (Paladin)

Level 5 (Paladin)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 7 (Paladin)

Level 8 (Paladin)

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)

Level 11 (Paladin)

Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Paladin)

Level 14 (Paladin)

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 16 (Paladin)

Level 17 (Paladin)

Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Oversize TWF

Level 19 (Paladin)

Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Divine Might II
Enhancement: Divine Might III
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

58 Action Points to this point
4 KotC I
2 Kotc II
2 KotC III
4 Extra Smite IV
4 Exhaulted Smite IV
3 Divine Sacrifice III
2 Capstone
---
79 Action Points

[Aaxeyu]

I did something similiar not to long ago.
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4947260&postcount=365

My build will be able to get 2 more damage per hit for the cost of 20 hp and a fort save :)
It can also dump the third cha enhancement and take HV II to get even more damage:P

[bobbryan2]

Yeah, I made a very similar guy.

Just crit one of the lieutenants in the Shroud for about 1000 pts of damage in one swing.

It's pretty slick seeing 480 + red numbers on both hands. +5 holy burst cold iron, silver, byeshk khopeshes negates the need for any real greensteel.

The thing that surprised me about my paladin was how gear-unintensive he was. I've barely equipped him with any raid loot, and he performs at a high level.

[TreknaQudane]

Thats ... Really overkill on the charisma

If you drop Paladin Charisma 3 and Veratility Cha, you could pick up Human Improved Recovery 1 and 2, which you'll need since this guy will be a sponge.

[Impaqt]

I did something similiar not to long ago.
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4947260&postcount=365

My build will be able to get 2 more damage per hit for the cost of 20 hp and a fort save :)
It can also dump the third cha enhancement and take HV II to get even more damage:P


Wow, Scary Similar.....

[ViolentEnd]

I recently rolled and leveled almost the exact same character as this in anticipation for Knight of the Chalice. Very fun to play, and the DPS at level 20 will be extraordinary. Even now at 16, the DPS is nice. Figure in the extra damage and extra smites with the proposed PrE and it will be awesome.

[rimble]

Yeah I was eyeballing a Drow Rapier version...which is, of course, a tiny bit more squishy. Looks awesome.

[Impaqt]

Yeah I was eyeballing a Drow Rapier version...which is, of course, a tiny bit more squishy. Looks awesome.

Drow Version could be pretty neat.. Divine Might 4 maybe? Extra Rapier Damage.....

[stockwizard5]

As my mains were past Paldins, I have as well been working (with guild help) to try and see the viability given the new stuff for Mod9.

Bottom line for us is that 452 HP at level 20 with no evasion and no AC = dead.

Best bet we have so far is trying to multi-class 2 levels of Monk. Gives up some DPS at the Capstone (but keeps everything else) and definately helps to have Evasion, Reflex, and AC but even still we find other builds to have higher DPS and more survivability (and better spells) so its not happening yet.

ps: The amount of damage on a "crit smite" happens so rarely that it is almost meaningless in total DPS (ps: the "s" is second folks, not swings, or srounds).

[rimble]

Drow Version could be pretty neat.. Divine Might 4 maybe? Extra Rapier Damage.....

Yeah, all the numbers are pretty similar, though I didn't work it through in quite as much detail as you did. ToHit (30ish) and Damage (34ish) are comparable, so maybe the Rapiers are better with their crits, I dunno. Didn't work out what Enhancements could actually be afforded. Maybe consider Extend for longer Zeals and DFs, I don't have any practical experience with that though. I wouldn't have room for that until 18th. Was gonna start him 16/16/12/10/8/16, everything else pretty much matches you after that.

[kingfisher]

u get the 10 draconic hps?

[Aaxeyu]

Wow, Scary Similar.....

Hehe, aye.

It's a nice build, but im not too convinced about the dps, gonna calculate it. Will come back with the result.

[Impaqt]

u get the 10 draconic hps?


Nope, forgot that.. Dnt have a 45hp shroud item either. over 500hp is relatively easy.

[Impaqt]

As my mains were past Paldins, I have as well been working (with guild help) to try and see the viability given the new stuff for Mod9.

Bottom line for us is that 452 HP at level 20 with no evasion and no AC = dead.

Best bet we have so far is trying to multi-class 2 levels of Monk. Gives up some DPS at the Capstone (but keeps everything else) and definately helps to have Evasion, Reflex, and AC but even still we find other builds to have higher DPS and more survivability (and better spells) so its not happening yet.

ps: The amount of damage on a "crit smite" happens so rarely that it is almost meaningless in total DPS (ps: the "s" is second folks, not swings, or srounds).

I Notice the crits on my Intimitank a lot. ANd he uses Dwarf axes and no crit enhancments.... on a 25% crit chance Kopesh with what, 8 Smites?, with the enhancment line? I think I'd notice them a lot more.

[kingfisher]

Nope, forgot that.. Dnt have a 45hp shroud item either. over 500hp is relatively easy.
yeap, and then you've got rage, madstone, temp hps etc. you will be 540ish for big fights minimum

[Cold_Stele]

Thats ... Really overkill on the charisma

He gets more DPS from Cha than he does Str.


Yup, pure KotC is going to be solid - did you see the thread about Pure KotC vs Tempest KotC. Pure's obviously behind a little, but not by that much.

I managed to squeeze 12 Int on my guy for skills and CE (for a bit of raid main tanking every now and again).

Only problem I found on an old 8 Int Pally was I was desperate for Jump, Balance, Spot, UMD, Intimidate and a little Tumble.

[TreknaQudane]

He gets more DPS from Cha than he does Str.


Yup, pure KotC is going to be solid - did you see the thread about Pure KotC vs Tempest KotC. Pure's obviously behind a little, but not by that much.

I managed to squeeze 12 Int on my guy for skills and CE (for a bit of raid main tanking every now and again).

Only problem I found on an old 8 Int Pally was I was desperate for Jump, Balance, Spot, UMD, Intimidate and a little Tumble.

Paladins get no DPS from Cha, it only increases the accuracy with smites not the damage. The damage is a function of paladin levels.

[Cold_Stele]

Paladins get no DPS from Cha, it only increases the accuracy with smites not the damage. The damage is a function of paladin levels.

Divine Might?

Cha 14 DM I +2 dam
Cha 16 DM II +4 dam
Cha 18 DM III +6 dam
Cha 20 DM IV +8 dam

[Impaqt]

Paladins get no DPS from Cha, it only increases the accuracy with smites not the damage. The damage is a function of paladin levels.


Divine Might?

Cha 14 DM I +2 dam
Cha 16 DM II +4 dam
Cha 18 DM III +6 dam
Cha 20 DM IV +8 dam

^^^^^^

I wish I could get the base CHR on this guy up to 16, But I realy cant see the enhancment working out for the DM IV anyway.

Of course, there really no NEED to have al the enhancments I do either I suppose.. Little better LoH I suppose, SOme saves....

[rimble]

Divine Might?

Cha 14 DM I +2 dam
Cha 16 DM II +4 dam
Cha 18 DM III +6 dam
Cha 20 DM IV +8 dam

It's a nice double-dip too...access to the next tier AND another turn to activate it with...

[rimble]

I wish I could get the base CHR on this guy up to 16, But I realy cant see the enhancment working out for the DM IV anyway.

Yeah I wouldn't try for a 16 on a non-Drow...

Ok, time to start the weekend...I'm out.

[Cold_Stele]

I wish I could get the base CHR on this guy up to 16, But I realy cant see the enhancment working out for the DM IV anyway.

There'll be +5 tomes one day right?

15 base Cha is fine for the long game...

[Aaxeyu]

^^^^^^

I wish I could get the base CHR on this guy up to 16, But I realy cant see the enhancment working out for the DM IV anyway.

drop con to 12 and bump cha to 16.
You save 6 APs from cha III.
Use 4 of those on divine might IV.

Sure, you lose 20 hp, but that's not a major loss.


I calculated the dps. Under perfect conditions* over a 5 min period you will have 461 DPS if you go for DM IV and 449 if you go for DM III. That is rather low for a build that goes all out dps..

*using all smites, and using divine sacrifice every third second. I didn't take into account the constant rebuffing of DF, zeal and DM, so in reality the dps is much lower.

[TreknaQudane]

Divine Might?

Cha 14 DM I +2 dam
Cha 16 DM II +4 dam
Cha 18 DM III +6 dam
Cha 20 DM IV +8 dam

Which is based on Base and Inherent and not Feat (Enhancement) and Items.

[Cold_Stele]

Yup you got it now, it's base (starting + tomes). It's really pretty nice.

So like I said, Pallys actually get more DPS from Cha than Str (especially TWF as it's half Str damage but full DM damage).

[ManinBlaq]

Exalted Smite isn't going to give you a 15-20 crit range (rather 16-20).


I was looking a Warforged TWF build.

Base stats with 32 pt:
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 8
Wis: 6
Cha: 16

Pretty hardcore - you can make up the loss of con bonus to HP with WF Toughness enhancement line.

Being WF though, you have some pretty disgusting DPS enhancements -
Bladesworn Transformation - +4 Str (profane), +4 Damage
WF Power Attack - -3 Attack, +3 Damage

Coupled with a set of picks - a 17-20 x6 crit is just too tempting. Proc'ing a double-smite / double-crit would be too **** beautiful.

Definately not for the feint of heart though - you definately have some limitations - loss of skill points and HP that you have to make up for. Build also requires a +3 Dex tome just to be viable.

But you can finesse the numbers - drop the Cha a point - and put those into Int or Con.

[TreknaQudane]

Yup you got it now, it's base (starting + tomes). It's really pretty nice.

So like I said, Pallys actually get more DPS from Cha than Str (especially TWF as it's half Str damage but full DM damage).

Which still means that he'd be better not taking Paladin Charisma 3 and Human Versatility Charisma (dropping Cha to 26) and picking up Human Improved Recovery.

Incoming heals are increased, but so are self heals from Lay on Hand and spells if any are memmed

Or, better yet. Take only Human Versatility Charisma, and Paladin Charisma 1. Do not take Pally Cha 2 and 3. That's 10 AP, picking up Improved Recovery 2 still leaves you with 2 AP to spend on Human Versatility 2 if you want.

[Cold_Stele]

Paladins get no DPS from Cha, it only increases the accuracy with smites not the damage. The damage is a function of paladin levels.

Sure whatever he can take whatever enhancements he wants, so long as he doesn't skimp on base Cha.

[TreknaQudane]

Sure whatever he can take whatever enhancements he wants, so long as he doesn't skimp on base Cha.

I was never talking about changing the base Cha, only enhancements.

[Cold_Stele]

Paladins get no DPS from Cha, it only increases the accuracy with smites not the damage. The damage is a function of paladin levels.

Yes you were.

[TreknaQudane]

Thats ... Really overkill on the charisma

If you drop Paladin Charisma 3 and Veratility Cha, you could pick up Human Improved Recovery 1 and 2, which you'll need since this guy will be a sponge.


I was never talking about changing the base Cha, only enhancements.


Yes you were.

Say what?

[alchilito]

Looks like a really nice build to roll up Impaqt. Nice job man.

[Cold_Stele]

He gets more DPS from Cha than he does Str.


Paladins get no DPS from Cha, it only increases the accuracy with smites not the damage. The damage is a function of paladin levels.

Dude you got it wrong - everyone would have forgetten about it already if you weren't trying to pretend you didn't.

Seriously - it's not that big of a deal.

[TreknaQudane]

Dude you got it wrong - everyone would have forgetten about it already if you weren't trying to pretend you didn't.

Seriously - it's not that big of a deal.

Are really you that stupid or did you have a few drinks before coming here?

[Cold_Stele]

ROFL insults now?


Paladins get no DPS from Cha, it only increases the accuracy with smites not the damage. The damage is a function of paladin levels.

Explain please?

[Mr._Dna]

I definitely think this will be a cool build. If you play smart, 500 HP even w/ no evasion and lower AC will still be reasonable. I am trying the Drow version myself, with rapiers, 16,15,12,10,9,16. I would take Extend instead of OTWF, however.

[Cold_Stele]

I would take Extend instead of OTWF, however.

I have Extend right now but 'to hit' really isn't that great, OTWF may make the final cut...

[Jay203]

to be honest, the bonus damage you get from cha isn't stable enough for me to want to invest heavily into, i'd go with maybe 14 on a wf/dwarf and 16 on elf/human/halfing and 18 on drow and no more than that, it's just not worth it :P
on the otherhand, splashing 4 lvls of ranger for ram's might and 2 lvl of monk for ac and extra feats as well as evasion might be viable for extra boosts

i'm thinking 14/4/2 Pally/Ranger/Monk, wf
Stats:


Strength 16 + 5 lvl + 6 item + 3 tome = 30 (+10) +4 more transformed= 34 (+12) + 2 more ram's might = 36 (+13)
Dexterity 15 + 2 tome + 1 enhancement + 6 item = 24 (+7)
Constitution 10 + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 enhancement = 20 (+5)
Intelligence 8 + 2 tome + 6 item (if needed) = 16 (+3)
Wisdom 12 + 3 tome + 1 enhancement + 6 item = 22 (+6)
Charisma 13 + 3 tome +2 enhancement + 6 item = 24 (+7)


Feats:

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) <Undecided>


AC breakdown:


10 base
2 composite plating
7 DT armor
6 wisdom bonus
7 dex bonus
1 ritual
1 dodge feat
1 monk centered
4 pally aura
5 protection item
2 chaosgarde
-------
46 unbuffed
5 full barkskin
1 full aura
3 chattering ring
4 DT insight
1 haste
------
60

To Hit:


19 base (curse the 3/4 BAB of monk! ;p)
13 str bonus
5 weapon
4 divine favor
1 haste
--------
+42
-2 twf
-7 power attack
-----
33 self buff
4 GH
-----
37 base to hit with common buffs
extra + 14 to hit for smites


Damage output:


4.5 Average Khophesh
+ 5 weapon bonus
+13 str bonus
+ 2 ram's might
+ 4 tranformation
+ 5 power attack
+ 2 wf power attack
+ 4 Divine Might II
+ 4 Divine Favor
-------
43.5 Average before crit
x 3
====
130.5 regular crit (17~20 x3)

Exhalted SmiteII
43.5 + 14 pally lvl damage
x 5 crit
-----
287.5 Exhalted Crit (16~20 x5)

regular crits in the high 100s with buffs and should be over 300 with exhalted smite with no problem

HP:


20 Heroic Durability
140 L14 pally
16 2 monk
32 4 Ranger
100 con bonus
22 Toughness
30 toughness enhancement
----
360
22 Minos Legens
30 GFL
------
412 HP


Saves:


9/4/4 14 Pally
4/4/1 4 Ranger
3/3/3 2 Monk
5/7/6 stats bonus
7/7/7 Divine Grace
4/4/4 aura
5/5/5 resistance item
2/2/2 luck
1/1/1 ritual
------
40/37/33 before buffs


Enhancements:


Enhancement: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Divine Might II
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
61 used
---
4 KotC I
2 Kotc II
3 bulwark of good III
3 Resistance of Good III
3 Exalted Smite III
----
76 used


around 60 AC, two weapon fighting, doubledipping on wisdom for sp, one leftover feat for whatever, high saves, EVASION, immune to negative level and hold person
i'd say that's pretty sick ;p

EDIT: ooops, forgot i can grab exhalted smite 3 :p

[Impaqt]

to be honest, the bonus damage you get from cha isn't stable enough for me to want to invest heavily into, i'd go with maybe 14 on a wf/dwarf and 16 on elf/human/halfing and 18 on drow and no more than that, it's just not worth it :P
on the otherhand, splashing 4 lvls of ranger for ram's might and 2 lvl of monk for ac and extra feats as well as evasion might be viable for extra boosts

i'm thinking 14/4/2 Pally/Ranger/Monk, wf
Stats:


Strength 16 + 5 lvl + 6 item + 3 tome = 30 (+10) +4 more transformed= 34 (+12) + 2 more ram's might = 36 (+13)
Dexterity 15 + 2 tome + 1 enhancement + 6 item = 24 (+7)
Constitution 10 + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 enhancement = 20 (+5)
Intelligence 8 + 2 tome + 6 item (if needed) = 16 (+3)
Wisdom 12 + 3 tome + 1 enhancement + 6 item = 22 (+6)
Charisma 13 + 3 tome +2 enhancement + 6 item = 24 (+7)


Feats:

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) <Undecided>


AC breakdown:


10 base
2 composite plating
7 DT armor
6 wisdom bonus
7 dex bonus
1 ritual
1 dodge feat
1 monk centered
4 pally aura
5 protection item
2 chaosgarde
-------
56 unbuffed
5 full barkskin
1 full aura
3 chattering ring
4 DT insight
1 haste
------
70

To Hit:


19 base (curse the 3/4 BAB of monk! ;p)
13 str bonus
5 weapon
4 divine favor
1 haste
--------
+42
-2 twf
-7 power attack
-----
33 self buff
4 GH
-----
37 base to hit with common buffs
extra + 14 to hit for smites


Damage output:


4.5 Average Khophesh
+ 5 weapon bonus
+13 str bonus
+ 2 ram's might
+ 4 tranformation
+ 5 power attack
+ 2 wf power attack
+ 4 Divine Might II
+ 4 Divine Favor
-------
43.5 Average before crit
x 3
====
130.5 regular crit (17~20 x3)

Exhalted SmiteII
43.5 + 14 pally lvl damage
x 4 crit
-----
230 Exhalted Crit (16~20 x4)

regular crits in the high 100s with buffs and should be over 300 with exhalted smite with no problem

HP:


20 Heroic Durability
140 L14 pally
16 2 monk
32 4 Ranger
100 con bonus
22 Toughness
30 toughness enhancement
----
360
22 Minos Legens
30 GFL
------
412 HP


Saves:


9/4/4 14 Pally
4/4/1 4 Ranger
3/3/3 2 Monk
5/7/6 stats bonus
7/7/7 Divine Grace
4/4/4 aura
5/5/5 resistance item
2/2/2 luck
1/1/1 ritual
------
40/37/33 before buffs


Enhancements:


Enhancement: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Divine Might II
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
64 used
---
4 KotC I
2 Kotc II
3 bulwark of good III
3 Resistance of Good III
----
76 used


close to 70 AC, two weapon fighting, doubledipping on wisdom for sp, one leftover feat for whatever, high saves, EVASION, immune to negative level and hold person
i'd say that's pretty sick ;p

You giving up a ton of DPS on that build for the AC. 3d6+ on the capstone, another D6 against Evil outsiders on Kotc III Driopping Divbine Sacrivice 3, losing Divine Smite 3 and 4...

Divine Favor is capped at +3

I can add at least +3 from STR damage via various Rages as well.

Theres nothing wrong with your ideas, its just not what I was ging for at all.

[Cold_Stele]

to be honest, the bonus damage you get from cha isn't stable enough for me to want to invest heavily into, i'd go with maybe 14 on a wf/dwarf and 16 on elf/human/halfing and 18 on drow and no more than that, it's just not worth it :P
on the otherhand, splashing 4 lvls of ranger for ram's might and 2 lvl of monk for ac and extra feats as well as evasion might be viable for extra boosts


Oh it's stable alright, and ironically, the higher your Cha the more uses/day you get.

But what's that, wait a minute? Did you say take four levels of Rgr?

[Jay203]

You giving up a ton of DPS on that build for the AC. 3d6+ on the capstone, another D6 against Evil outsiders on Kotc III Driopping Divbine Sacrivice 3, losing Divine Smite 3 and 4...

Divine Favor is capped at +3

I can add at least +3 from STR damage via various Rages as well.

Theres nothing wrong with your ideas, its just not what I was ging for at all.

DF is capped at 3? D= the spell description said NOTHING! argh!!!!
oh wellz.... 1 damage down i guess
oh, and i forgot i can pick up E-Smite III :p
didn't bother picking up divine sacrifice since i didn't think the damage progression was worth the aps =(

but i guess it's great stable damage for majority =P

[QuantumFX]

Base stats look good. I have to agree with the posters that suggest you drop the Pally CHA enhancement down. 6 AP's for +1 CHA could defiantely be spent elsewhere. (Even if it’s just Human Versatility for the damage boost.)

[Jay203]

But what's that, wait a minute? Did you say take four levels of Rgr?

yes i did! :D:D:D:D:D:D

[Soul-Shaker]

ES bonus dmg at lvl 20 paladin is 67 and not 20. Smite dmg is 7+3xpala lvl

I was deciding on a similar build except was hoping for something +4 cha tomes as raid loot and +3 tomes as random unbound loot for 14 starting dex (3tome) for twf and +16cha w/ +4 tome = 20 base cha for last enhancement. Your stats look good though since cant count on a +4 and +3 like that.


Exalted Smite isn't going to give you a 15-20 crit range (rather 16-20).

Exalted smite IV gives +2 crit range and +2 crit multiplier so 15-20 is correct.

[Thrudh]

I did this a drow... Gave up a feat, but lets you start with a 16 or 17 CHA (so that 20 CHA and Divine Might IV is someday feasible). Also Drow gives you extra Dex so it's easy to hit 16 Dex (and then a +1 tome) for ITWF.

A high CHA and Divine Might beats out Strength now...

[Impaqt]

I did this a drow... Gave up a feat, but lets you start with a 16 or 17 CHA (so that 20 CHA and Divine Might IV is someday feasible). Also Drow gives you extra Dex so it's easy to hit 16 Dex (and then a +1 tome) for ITWF.

A high CHA and Divine Might beats out Strength now...

I think a Lot of people forget about Divine Favor as well.... Its like another +6 STR on top of all the other bonus that paladins are getting.... So many people see 26 or 28 str and think GIMP.. but realy.. that 26-28 is becoming an effective 32-34 with DF.

I fI buy a Second account, I may have to do this with a Drow.... What feat did you give up?

[rimble]

I think a Lot of people forget about Divine Favor as well.... Its like another +6 STR on top of all the other bonus that paladins are getting.... So many people see 26 or 28 str and think GIMP.. but realy.. that 26-28 is becoming an effective 32-34 with DF.

I fI buy a Second account, I may have to do this with a Drow.... What feat did you give up?

Khopesh (in my planned theoretical build).

[Impaqt]

Khopesh (in my planned theoretical build).

SO Dual Rapier user? That was my first thought.. with the extra Crit enhancments, Rapiers could get pretty rediculous as well... 13-20 Crit is pretty sweet.

[rimble]

SO Dual Rapier user? That was my first thought.. with the extra Crit enhancments, Rapiers could get pretty rediculous as well... 13-20 Crit is pretty sweet.

Indeed. It may technically be better than the Khopesh, I dunno, gut-feeling makes me think they're close enough that I don't care. Aside from the obvious benefit of the Drow having IC: Pierce for those Puncturing/Banishing times. Drow is of course a little squishy too, but I think that'd work out fine as well.

[Thrudh]

I think a Lot of people forget about Divine Favor as well.... Its like another +6 STR on top of all the other bonus that paladins are getting.... So many people see 26 or 28 str and think GIMP.. but realy.. that 26-28 is becoming an effective 32-34 with DF.

I fI buy a Second account, I may have to do this with a Drow.... What feat did you give up?

No Khopesh

Basically,

1 Toughness
3 TWF
6 ITWF
9 Improved Crit: Pierce
12 GTWF
15 Extend
18 Power Attack

Only level 10 so far....

[RangerMaya]

A couple of questions:

What sort of ac would be possible with this build? I have a couple dual-wielding rangers and the highest I've gotten their ac (self buffed) while dual-wielding is 44.

Secondly, a few people have mentioned taking rogue or monk levels for evasion, but since you can't evade in anything but light armor would it even be worth the ac hit? Especially since you're not getting improved evasion?

[Impaqt]

A couple of questions:

What sort of ac would be possible with this build? I have a couple dual-wielding rangers and the highest I've gotten their ac (self buffed) while dual-wielding is 44.

Dunno, I focus on AC or I dont. THis is a build where I didnt. WHen it comes to AC in this game, Go for 60+ or go home. It would be very difficult to get 60+ on this guy.


Secondly, a few people have mentioned taking rogue or monk levels for evasion, but since you can't evade in anything but light armor would it even be worth the ac hit? Especially since you're not getting improved evasion?

Evasin is very handy and since this build could care less about AC Evasion would certainly help. WHether or not is worth giving up the capstone is up to you though.

His unbuffed Reflex save would be about 33 with 2 Monk or 2 Rogue. That translates to near 40 Fully Buffed. way more than adequete. Improved Evasion is for low HP/Low Reflex Save characters that cant survive rolling a 1.

[ForwardWu]

My pally starts str and cha at 15, and i put 3 lv pts into str and 1 pt into cha, given the best possible tome in mod9 will be +4...hoping to fit in DM4 when i got the tome...the damage from DM4 outperform the str effect...

yet it is not a fun toon to play without all the pre implemented in mod8.....its so ac/dps lagging from other dps build atm....

[TechNoFear]

A high CHA and Divine Might beats out Strength now...

Only until you start missing or have fights that last more than a minute.

I find the loss of DPS on my 16 pal due to keeping DF, Zeal, DM, ES, etc going to negate some of the bonuses.

DM being only a 1 min non extendable clicky (but with the 'clicky lag' you get in combat and less responsiveness than normal clickies) causes me to waste a few.

I find DM to be a boost, not something I would build around, but that is just my experience with it.

[Nodoze]

I was curious if there was a way to do this build on a new account... In otherwords, can it be done with only 28 points and the assumption that all the +X tomes will be at the end (when recieved enough favor and gotten drops or saved enough gold)?

If yes, what changes to the starting stats (28 vs 32) would you recommend and to the progression?

Are there any points at leveling at which you must have a particular tome (or tomes) to be able to achieve most of the vision?

[Impaqt]

I was curious if there was a way to do this build on a new account... In otherwords, can it be done with only 28 points and the assumption that all the +X tomes will be at the end (when recieved enough favor and gotten drops or saved enough gold)?

If yes, what changes to the starting stats (28 vs 32) would you recommend and to the progression?

Are there any points at leveling at which you must have a particular tome (or tomes) to be able to achieve most of the vision?


I wouldnt advise it.. You coudl Drop STR down to 15 and Chr down to 14 and be OK I guess... But this build needs the +2 Dex tome aty Minimum to Qualify for Improved and Greater Two Weapon Fighting.

[baddax]

Whats all the hoopla about Knigt of the Chalice? IMO Hunter of the dead is where its at, unless you are rolling a WF.

[Impaqt]

Whats all the hoopla about Knigt of the Chalice? IMO Hunter of the dead is where its at, unless you are rolling a WF.

You think theres going to be a significant amount of Undead in mod 9? Everything I saw on lammania was more Evil Outsiders...

[baddax]

Not necessarily but the benifits of Ghost touch, Energy Drain immunity, and i believe a chance to dirupt on any natural 20. The first 2 is very nice to have and eliminates the need for certain items and such in hot swap areas. Speciffically the Silver flame trinket can be completely eliminated. Also not haveing to carry specific Ghost touch weapons or Items is also very nice.

Lastly i seem to remember a specific Undead area Not Available in the preview on Lamania. So it is posible.

[Impaqt]

Not necessarily but the benifits of Ghost touch, Energy Drain immunity, and i believe a chance to dirupt on any natural 20. The first 2 is very nice to have and eliminates the need for certain items and such in hot swap areas. Speciffically the Silver flame trinket can be completely eliminated. Also not haveing to carry specific Ghost touch weapons or Items is also very nice.

Lastly i seem to remember a specific Undead area Not Available in the preview on Lamania. So it is posible.


How can you remeber something that wasnt there?

So I can do a LOT more damage against the majority of Mobs or I can carry a couple less incredibly easy to obtain items?

I find it kinda funny that the biggest benefit to "Hunter of the undead" is against a live Mob.....

Will it really work that way?

[jerryxenon]

Me and a guildie of mine have been running this build a few months now. I personally went w/ a little less cha and a little more str. 1000pt+ double smites not uncommon w/ these guys.

[baddax]

How can you remeber something that wasnt there?

So I can do a LOT more damage against the majority of Mobs or I can carry a couple less incredibly easy to obtain items?

I find it kinda funny that the biggest benefit to "Hunter of the undead" is against a live Mob.....

Will it really work that way?

What i said was i seem to remember 3 options in the teleporter from the 12 to lamania. One option was for an undead area, if you picked that area then the teleporter said he couldnt do that for some reason or another.

[baddax]

Also interesting to note is one of the main Adversaries in the Stormreaver line is a Dracolich. Havent heard much about him or her. Is it possible that will be the next raid boss? I dont really know just asking. If so that would be an interesting twist.

[baddax]

How can you remeber something that wasnt there?

So I can do a LOT more damage against the majority of Mobs or I can carry a couple less incredibly easy to obtain items?

I find it kinda funny that the biggest benefit to "Hunter of the undead" is against a live Mob.....

Will it really work that way?

With item slots on capped toons becomming scarcer and scarcer and 1 size fits all set ups becomming more difficult all the time ie AC vs DPs, Beholders,Oozes etc the less swapping i can do the better and the easier my end game gear set up can be.

Sure i will sacrifice end game DPS vs Evil outsiders but thats what vorpals and WOE/Wop's are for. As for end bosses, sure i will give up some DPS but i dont really think that will be an issue while spamming Exalted Smite and Divine sacrifice regularly.

And even if there iss no Dracolich or they somehow super nerf Wop/Woe/Vorp then thats ok by me i will still be able to enjoy the Orchard and other Undead quests that i always HATED before.

[Monkey_Archer]

Recently built a similar pure pali
15/16/12/10/8/17 Drow with rapiers....

First toon on a Ghal.... (no room left on thelanis :() hence the 16 dex as i wont have spare +2 tomes for a while....

I didnt want to gamble on easy availability of +4 tomes for DM 4.

Probably would be less overall dps then human khopesh, but rapiers make for better smites and bursting dps.
Khopesh 5x5 crits VS Rapier 7x4 = Khopesh 25 VS Rapier 28

[Nodoze]

I really like the idea of this build as I love Paladins (and would prefer to have a DPS one). If it is viable I would like to one day make it or something like it (after I unlock Drow &/or 32 point builds and have gold for a few tomes)...

I am a little concerned that this build has no Displacement nor Evasion nor sufficent AC as I have seen in other DPS builds and that it may be not as viable as other DPS builds in raids or instances...

Is this build going to be a Healbot's nightmare and be a "healsync" taking too much healer focus and too many healer resources (like maybe a pure Barbarian) or is this a non-issue with proper gear (or are their talents/feats already in there mitigating this that I don't understand)?

I would think, if that is the case, the Human one might be better than the Drow because of the higher con/hp and may want to work in the +20-30% healing due to Human Recovery II or III (or +40% via IV at 20?).

If this is an issue, would it be possible to work in self-displacement like on Elves (likely too many feats) or items?

I have read hints at the possibility of "perma-blur" &/or "perma-displacement" items so maybe this issue, if it is an issue, is mitigated by things like that. I don't have enough experience to know about that and would appreciate learning more about them...

Anyway, maybe I am focused too much on self-sufficency or having that built into the build and maybe in a properly constructed raid/party there will be enough buffs to mitigate this (or maybe it is a non-issue, frankly don't know)...

Anyone have any similar concerns, or thoughts why lacking evasion/displacement/etc isn't an issue, on this build?

Added: Maybe it is a non-issue if you give the cleric(s) gold and/or stacks of healing scrolls/wands up front?

[Impaqt]

A Solid Well played build is never a liability in a group regardless of how much damage he may sustain. If hes got the DPS to warrant the healing I dont know a cleri thats gonna complain.

This guy does.

Add to the equation a bunch of potent Lay on Hands, and the ability to wand whip/mana heal in between fights and hes more than self sufficnet enough.

[Nodoze]

I don't have enough experience in raiding to really know. I mainly wanted to make sure it was considered before I put much effort into trying to build something like this. Fair enough and thanks for the info and thanks for putting together what looks like a solid DPS Paladin...

[Jucar]

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

BA2 Angelheart
Level 16 Lawful Good Drow Female
(16 Paladin)
Hit Points: 254
Spell Points: 215
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 14 18
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 12 13
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 5 13.5
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy 3 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 4
Heal 0 0
Hide 3 4
Intimidate 3 4
Jump 4 13.5
Listen 0 2
Move Silently 3 4
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 3
Spot 0 2
Swim 2 4
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 13.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III


Level 16 (Paladin)

[Jucar]

Also looking to add following Feats

TWF
Toughness
ITWF
IC Piercing
GTWF
PA
CE

[Ssmooth]

A guildy of mine and I both have almost this same build. The smites are amazing. Think I'll end up with 30 str, and 28 cha with DM IV. Great build.

[tc12]

I'm interested in the Drow/rapier version. But with less CON/HP on a low-AC build I think it makes sense to go the 18/2 evasion route instead. While the monk feats would be nice, I'm leaning instead toward 2 Rogue in order to have high UMD and have the d6+3 sneak help make up a little for the lack of capstone. 16 15 12 11 8 16. Most of that's obvious but the 11 would be to get 12 INT for skill pts with just a +1 instead of burning an expensive +2 INT tome. (Have a +2 DEX already.)

So far I've never leveled a Paladin past level 4, just never had a build I liked. Is this one that would play well all the way through? I level slow so don't like builds that only come together towards cap.

Thoughts?

TC

[Djimonte]

I was curious if there was a way to do this build on a new account... In otherwords, can it be done with only 28 points and the assumption that all the +X tomes will be at the end (when recieved enough favor and gotten drops or saved enough gold)?

If yes, what changes to the starting stats (28 vs 32) would you recommend and to the progression?

Are there any points at leveling at which you must have a particular tome (or tomes) to be able to achieve most of the vision?

No I would not recomend trying as a 28 build

[Djimonte]

I'm interested in the Drow/rapier version. But with less CON/HP on a low-AC build I think it makes sense to go the 18/2 evasion route instead. While the monk feats would be nice, I'm leaning instead toward 2 Rogue in order to have high UMD and have the d6+3 sneak help make up a little for the lack of capstone. 16 15 12 11 8 16. Most of that's obvious but the 11 would be to get 12 INT for skill pts with just a +1 instead of burning an expensive +2 INT tome. (Have a +2 DEX already.)

So far I've never leveled a Paladin past level 4, just never had a build I liked. Is this one that would play well all the way through? I level slow so don't like builds that only come together towards cap.

Thoughts?

TC

I have designed both twf paladins and sword and board tomes are very beneficial for twf buildouts I hate knowing evasion is the name of the game and stubbornely resist building around that My twf paladin is a high elf with a base (no buff) armor class of 52 I actually swap between scimitars and rapier combos with him and he has unbuffed 425 hitpoints.
the sword board guy has 62 ac uses a bastard sword 425 hitpoints ( he is geared up for defender syberys though both these builds have 2 lvls fighter in them while I do have 2 straight alternates coming up now to take advantage of the capstone. take off fighter I lose a little in the hitpoints maybe. and strength point at 20 th level (18 pally 2fighter) Both builds are fun to play I don't use extend so I am constently button mashing the devs really need to look into why they made those spells last so lttle as by no means are they game breaking to increase time duration.
I would build your pally the way you wanna play your guy though I recomend pouring into strength and con or dex and con with the rest in cha instead of concentrating completely on charisma.
the fighter class was for intimidate mostly with bonus str point I get at 2.

[tc12]

...I hate knowing evasion is the name of the game and stubbornely resist building around that...


...though both these builds have 2 lvls fighter in them.

So at this point you're happy with splash builds that will miss out on the capstone but can still get level III PrEs. Yet you dismiss the 2 evasion options. I'm not sure why. It seems there are 4 choices for the 2 levels, Fighter, Monk, Rogue or Paladin -- ie staying pure.

Fighter gets you Tower Shield access (important for S&B Intimitanks for sure), unlocks Intimidate, 1 STR point via enhancement and 2 feats. Monk gets you Evasion and 2 feats and adds to saves (questionable if most Paladins need the save help though). Rogue gets you Evasion, 1d6+3 sneak, unlocks UMD (and Intimidate). Pure obviously gets you the Capstone, 1d6 holy damage against all evil and an additonal 2d6 vs undead and evil outsiders.


My concern with 2wf builds that can't reach meaningful AC is that while you dish out plenty you take a ton of damage too. Also if you start with the DEX for 2wf but aren't using it for meaningful AC, that to me suggests Evasion makes use of that Stat point spend as your Ref save will be fine between the DEX and Aura bonus. As hard as it is to lose the Monk feats, in going rogue (pun intended) I see a second solution to the low-AC melee damage in building for both evasion *and* a UMD good enough for Heal scrolls. Especially going rapier/drow with a 12 CON, this synergy seems to make up for the lower DPS.

Maybe it's just my playstyle, I admit I do have trouble with full-on DPS builds that need a pocket cleric -- it's why I don't have a Barbarian I guess. LOL Or more to the point why if I build a Barbarian it'd be an 18/2 Evasion 2wf. Though in that case without the Aura save help Paladins get to make the Ref save a sure thing you instead are limited pretty much to Dwarf for the +5 racial/enhanced Spell Defense bump to AoE spell saves for evasion success.

It's also possible that I'm not appreciating LoH and the cures on the Pally spell list enough and there's enough self-healing on a full-on DPS Pally build that I don't need to worry about either Evasion or UMD'ing Heal scrolls. Anyone make a case for that or is it more that if you play your DPS build right you take down mobs too fast to take much damage?

TC

[Monkey_Archer]

I'm interested in the Drow/rapier version. But with less CON/HP on a low-AC build I think it makes sense to go the 18/2 evasion route instead. While the monk feats would be nice, I'm leaning instead toward 2 Rogue in order to have high UMD and have the d6+3 sneak help make up a little for the lack of capstone. 16 15 12 11 8 16. Most of that's obvious but the 11 would be to get 12 INT for skill pts with just a +1 instead of burning an expensive +2 INT tome. (Have a +2 DEX already.)

So far I've never leveled a Paladin past level 4, just never had a build I liked. Is this one that would play well all the way through? I level slow so don't like builds that only come together towards cap.

Thoughts?

TC

I recently capped my drow pure pali and, while i was worried about the low ac/hp at first, im having no problems now. This build was great to level up, even being new to ghallanda and having no resources. Was a bit worried around lvl 10 in gianthold having ~200hp but it worked out.

15+4/16/12/8/8/17 starting stats
396 hp (no shroud item)
all smite, DM, DS, LOH, rapier and toughness enhancements
TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Toughness, PA, IC

Like any pali, good dps is dependant on 1-2 minute buffs, so you cant be lazy.... but with all buffs going and 8 smites ready to burn there is nothing quite like it :D

[tc12]

Thanks Monkey, that's good to know. I do really like the sound of the capstone. Beyond the 3d6 damage making your weapons good aligned really helps with the transmuting changes in Mod 9, eg transmuting / greater law/evil banes that won't bypass DR/good any longer for most classes would still work for Paladins with capstone. Greater banes, KotC III and Capstone together vs outsiders seems pretty sweet.

Besides tomes, it doesn't seem like this build is very resource intensive. I already have enough rapiers on other characters to share on this guy. Perhaps if I go 16 16 12 10 8 16 and then just +1 tomes on STR/DEX/CON/CHA I could take this into double-digit levels before deciding if I like it enough for me to dump +2 on.

BTW can you really start 8 INT on a Drow? I thought the lowest base/natural you could put in any stat is 8 and with racial +2 for Drow in that means 10 base lowest. Or am I forgetting how this works?

[Gornn]

Ive been planning to make a build like this, myself.

I'm however waiting for mod 9 to see how common +3 tomes will be. Will they drop as commonly as did +2s in mod 6 days?

Because, if they're pretty common I'll start my dex at 14, instead of 15 and stick those 2 extra points somewhere else.


Maybe

16
14
14/15
8
8
15/16 (allows for divine might 4 with a +4 tome)

I'm not sure which way I'd go, but those 2 build points are DEF better used in con or charisma than in Dex.

Also planning on popping extend in there somewhere at low levels.

[Gornn]

Thanks Monkey, that's good to know. I do really like the sound of the capstone. Beyond the 3d6 damage making your weapons good aligned really helps with the transmuting changes in Mod 9, eg transmuting / greater law/evil banes that won't bypass DR/good any longer for most classes would still work for Paladins with capstone. Greater banes, KotC III and Capstone together vs outsiders seems pretty sweet.

Besides tomes, it doesn't seem like this build is very resource intensive. I already have enough rapiers on other characters to share on this guy. Perhaps if I go 16 16 12 10 8 16 and then just +1 tomes on STR/DEX/CON/CHA I could take this into double-digit levels before deciding if I like it enough for me to dump +2 on.

BTW can you really start 8 INT on a Drow? I thought the lowest base/natural you could put in any stat is 8 and with racial +2 for Drow in that means 10 base lowest. Or am I forgetting how this works?

No, you're right. The lowest a drow can start *IS* 10, but I'm sure that 8 represents not buying any points in Int.

[Thrudh]

It's also possible that I'm not appreciating LoH and the cures on the Pally spell list enough and there's enough self-healing on a full-on DPS Pally build that I don't need to worry about either Evasion or UMD'ing Heal scrolls. Anyone make a case for that or is it more that if you play your DPS build right you take down mobs too fast to take much damage?


Mine is currently a 16 drow paladin, TWF DPS type with no AC... the 4 Lay on Hands I have usually are enough to get me through most quests... Once they are gone though, I'm very dependent on the cleric...

And yes, the trick is to take them down fast (use positioning too... if you're fighting two bad guys, keep moving so the 2nd one is behind the 1st one... He can't reach you that way...

I save my smites for when I'm in trouble and need to kill fast...

I'm probably going to splash 2 levels of rogue when the cap goes up for evasion and UMD, so I can use heal scrolls on myself. It's interesting how different I'm forced to play once the LOHs are gone...

It's a very good character... Good DPS, very self-sufficient (especially once I get the rogue levels)

[Thrudh]

BTW can you really start 8 INT on a Drow? I thought the lowest base/natural you could put in any stat is 8 and with racial +2 for Drow in that means 10 base lowest. Or am I forgetting how this works?

Divine Might is huge part of your DPS... The whole point of going drow is to be able to start with a 15-17 CHA... You'll want a base 18 (with tomes) at least (for DM III).

[Monkey_Archer]

No, you're right. The lowest a drow can start *IS* 10, but I'm sure that 8 represents not buying any points in Int.

Yes that was a typo... 10 int not 8

[Monkey_Archer]

Divine Might is huge part of your DPS... The whole point of going drow is to be able to start with a 15-17 CHA... You'll want a base 18 (with tomes) at least (for DM III).

thats why i started 17 cha.... so far the only +2 tome i have aquired on ghallanda is a +2 con for 1750 favor, so getting 18 base cha with +1 tome for DM 3 was important to me.

Also lets me get 20 base cha for DM 4 with only a +3 tome, so i dont need to grind endlessly for a +4... however common they might become some day....

15 starting strength isnt that bad either on a drow with rapier enhancments, 26 with +1 tome... 28 with +3... if i ever do get a +4 tome i can always get +1 exeptional strength on DT for an even 30

[tc12]

Mine is currently a 16 drow paladin, TWF DPS type with no AC... the 4 Lay on Hands I have usually are enough to get me through most quests... Once they are gone though, I'm very dependent on the cleric...



I'm probably going to splash 2 levels of rogue when the cap goes up for evasion and UMD, so I can use heal scrolls on myself. It's interesting how different I'm forced to play once the LOHs are gone...


Capstone vs UMD/evasion... It's a really tough choice. With full ranks (23) +8 CHA mod (@26) and a +5 exceptional CHA skills item (thinking neg/pos/pos SP item with +6 WIS and CHA skills) that's 36 UMD. No-fail Heals scrolls with a GH *or* from switching on the Cartouche or other UMD item. That's better than my multiclassed warchanter will have. LOL

But 3d6 and good-aligned weapons vs undead and evil outsiders. I just dont' know...

[Monkey_Archer]

Capstone vs UMD/evasion... It's a really tough choice. With full ranks (23) +8 CHA mod (@26) and a +5 exceptional CHA skills item (thinking neg/pos/pos SP item with +6 WIS and CHA skills) that's 36 UMD. No-fail Heals scrolls with a GH *or* from switching on the Cartouche or other UMD item. That's better than my multiclassed warchanter will have. LOL

But 3d6 and good-aligned weapons vs undead and evil outsiders. I just dont' know...

dont discount a pure pali umd :D

11 base + 9 cha +6 shroud +4gh +2 head of gf +3 cartouche = 35

fit in titan gloves and UMD focus if you really want no fail heal scrolls....

[78mackson]

Exalted Smite isn't going to give you a 15-20 crit range (rather 16-20).


I was looking a Warforged TWF build.

Base stats with 32 pt:
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 8
Wis: 6
Cha: 16

Pretty hardcore - you can make up the loss of con bonus to HP with WF Toughness enhancement line.

Being WF though, you have some pretty disgusting DPS enhancements -
Bladesworn Transformation - +4 Str (profane), +4 Damage
WF Power Attack - -3 Attack, +3 Damage

Coupled with a set of picks - a 17-20 x6 crit is just too tempting. Proc'ing a double-smite / double-crit would be too **** beautiful.

Definately not for the feint of heart though - you definately have some limitations - loss of skill points and HP that you have to make up for. Build also requires a +3 Dex tome just to be viable.

But you can finesse the numbers - drop the Cha a point - and put those into Int or Con.

ty for posting this.... its the one I´ve been looking for.

[Nodoze]

I was curious if anyone has feedback on the viability of this build. I have drow now and can get all the +1 tomes I want to start with.

Would appreciate if someone could post the recommended Drow starting stats assuming only +1 tomes are available.

Would also like to see what really important improvements would be available if I were to mix in one or more +2 tomes. In otherwords, what in end game would I be giving up if I only started with +1 tomes until I could grind or get better ones.

[Hokonoso]

i went human cause of khopesh, id probably only go drow if i liked rapiers or WF if i hate life and want to rely on wizards to heal me once my loh's hit 0 (which happens a lot). of course u have to have a +2 cha and dex to go human, there just isnt any way around that, so depending on what you can get human may not be an option. also the +2 int tome helps too.

[Nodoze]

thats why i started 17 cha.... so far the only +2 tome i have aquired on ghallanda is a +2 con for 1750 favor, so getting 18 base cha with +1 tome for DM 3 was important to me.

Also lets me get 20 base cha for DM 4 with only a +3 tome, so i dont need to grind endlessly for a +4... however common they might become some day....

15 starting strength isnt that bad either on a drow with rapier enhancments, 26 with +1 tome... 28 with +3... if i ever do get a +4 tome i can always get +1 exeptional strength on DT for an even 30 Considering my situation I am leaning toward your approach as I can start with +1s & be OK. What does the DT stand for?

[Nodoze]

Appreciate any feedback/improvements. After re-reading the entire thread taking notes I think, for those that don't have 32 point builds or many +2 tomes laying around (+1 tomes and drow are easy to get for VIPs & not hard for others), that the following is the best build. If at all possible, to carry 3 skills, I recommend somehow getting a +2 Int tome as without it you have to drop UMD, or Jump, or Balance). I don't want to drop any of those so I am leaving it in. Note: The +3 Charisma Tome will eventually be required to get DM4. The +2 tomes at the end are just improvements and not required...


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 275
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 18
Will: 8

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 15 22 22
Dexterity 16 18 18
Constitution 12 14 14
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 8 10 10
Charisma 17 20 23

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 16
<<< You can drop the +2 int Tome if you are willing to give up UMD... >>>
<<< Otherwise, the above tomes are required, the below are just improvements >>>
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 3 13.5 13.5
Jump 3.5 17 17
Use Magic Device 6 17.5 17.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might IV



Note: That I may have found a bug in the Planner as it said DM3 only costs 1AP (should be 3?) & KoTC2 only costed 1 (& should have been 2?). To balance for that, I put in LoH3 since it costed 3 to net that out...

Can get the enhancements to work without 'Drow Melee damage 1' (just in case there is something better)?

Does anyone thinks that it would be worth it to drop an enhancement to be able to take 'Drow Melee Damage 2'?

[McCurry]

Is there a 28pt human build for those that don't have drow unlocked? Would it just suck?

I really want to a pala, but every guide is drow drow drow. Any good human pala guide would be appreciated

Thanks in advance!

[Nodoze]

Is there a 28pt human build for those that don't have drow unlocked? Would it just suck?

I really want to a pala, but every guide is drow drow drow. Any good human pala guide would be appreciated

Thanks in advance!For a standard 28 point build you may want to consider something like:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1718366&postcount=10

I believe there are more decent 28pt paladin builds out there. I don't think this 28pt build or other 28pt builds would "just suck" and you could have good fun with any of them but they would not be "The Ultimate (DPS) Paladin" build in the end game...

I think the general consensus is that "The Ultimate (DPS) Paladin" build, to be done "right", not only requires 32 points (or drow) but also requires at least some tomes to be able to achieve the 'ultimate' DPS for a Paladin at end game. This is because "The Ultimate (DPS) Paladin" build is based upon both iTWF (which requires a 17 dex from base stats + tomes) and at least an 18 charisma for DM3 (20 for DM4) so I really don't see how it can be effectively done on 28 points with no early tomes without giving up too much.

[OliviaCrowley]

I've been doing a drow variant using the stats Monkey_Archer posted, and having an absolute blast with this set up.

From the first time I used smite I knew this would be a keeper. The damage output has been amazing almost from the start, and has only picked up since. I just hit 9 and grabbed IC:Pierce then logged, so I haven't had a real chance to try it out, but running around with a keen rapier and critting smites constantly on mobs has been great. I also got lucky and found a Bloodstone at L8, so that will only compound the critting awesomeness.

Edit: I'd like to add that crit smites are really, really ridiculous. They're doing roughly 175 for me with DM I and DF up. While I do a good job against undead and neutral creatures, this thing really shines against crittable, evil opponents.

Edit 2: My questions have been answered through play and inquiries to others via pm. I'm leaving them here for posterity, though.

I did decide I'd swap OTWF and PA though, and get OTWF at 15. I'm currently running rapier/shortsword so I don't hurt my AB too much.

I had a few questions though, since I usually play THF or casters. This will be my first character to pass 10 as well, due to the fact I quit when the cap was originally 10.

1. I noticed ITWF added an extra attack to the third animation. Does GTWF add one to the first? I assume yes, but still want confirmation.

2. What sort of greensteel weapons and items should I craft this character? From reading around, I assume a set of Radiance II rapiers. It appears I want to go with Holy/Flaming Burst/Fire Blast? Or is there a more desirable set up. As far as the greensteel items go, I'm clueless. In addition, how well would Min2 or Lightning2 work for this character?

Considering, again, this is my first TWF and my first character past 10, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Especially in regards to gear.

[Majere_Aumar]

*sigh* I just reached level 6 and realised I needed a +2 dex tome I didn't have. Wished I had read all the stuff about tome requirements before now :(

Its been a good build until now though.

[Impaqt]

*sigh* I just reached level 6 and realised I needed a +2 dex tome I didn't have. Wished I had read all the stuff about tome requirements before now :(

Its been a good build until now though.



Well, You can always just use a Filler Feat until you get the Dex tome... Turbine also has +2 Tomes for sale in the store this weekend.

[OliviaCrowley]

I've been thinking over how to distribute the 34 and 36 point builds, because I plan on reincarnating Byakuren when that comes.

Current (Drow, 32p equivalent) base stats: 15/16/12/10/8/17

My thoughts are I can either raise con 2 points total over the course of 34-36, but that seems not worthwhile to reincarnate twice for 20 hp. So here's my other option:

Drow, 34p equivalent base stats: 17/15/12/10/8/16

This assumes that by the time I reincarnate I will be able to get my hands on a +4 cha tome. If I do, I won't eat it at that point. In fact, I will be saving it until my 36p reincarnate. DM3 with +2, DM4 with +4.

+2 dex tome for ITWF/GTWF, will get it a bit late but no biggie.

Drow, 36p equivalent base stats: 17/15/12/10/8/16 + 2 unused.

I see a few choices here. 1. Add two to wisdom, get a little more sp. 2. Drop dex to 14. This assumes you've saved a +3 dex tome. You will get itwf/gtwf late, but you can raise str to 18 base.

Thoughts?

[DarkKindness]

Actually, Mod9 brings up several questions for me.

How will the scarcity/eventual unavailability of ML0 +2 Tomes affect the build?

How will Lesser/Greater Reincarnation (and the fact that they only apply Tomes at the new ML's) affect the build?

As it stands, I'm running the Drow variant of this build and haven't had access to +2 Tomes yet (I chose to sacrifice Balance - bad idea, worth Reincarnating over?), and am running into the need to make some compromises as I go... just wondering how it'll pan out when everyone is in this situation, as the ML0 +2 Tomes are going to fall out of circulation sooner or later...

[Favis]

Actually, Mod9 brings up several questions for me.

How will the scarcity/eventual unavailability of ML0 +2 Tomes affect the build?


Take power attack earlier?

[Nodoze]

I've been thinking over how to distribute the 34 and 36 point builds, because I plan on reincarnating Byakuren when that comes.
When are 34 & 36 point builds supposed to come? Will we have to restart new chracters to utilize them?

Ahh, just read about reincarnations... Wow.

[killerlector]

Well, You can always just use a Filler Feat until you get the Dex tome... Turbine also has +2 Tomes for sale in the store this weekend.
i having same problem and can get +2 tome but it cant be used until lvl 7

[porq]

i having same problem and can get +2 tome but it cant be used until lvl 7
Did you look at the date this thread lived? You're replying to a 2 year old thread.

[Impaqt]

i having same problem and can get +2 tome but it cant be used until lvl 7

Wow.. Necro....

Take a filler Feat at level 6. Something thats moderately helpful, but not something your attached to (Weapon Focus maybe)

At level 7, Consume the +2 Dex tome, then go see Fred and swap that filler feat out for ITWF.

Alternative: Move Power attack or OTWF to Level 6 and move everything back.

[killerlector]

yea sorry and i did see date but only right after i asked question
and thx impaqt!

[Lancellot]

im just coming back to game and am tring my pally to this built can i get some advice on what armor i could use since i dont have all the top gear yet and other items that are easy to get please and great build thanks

[aeonix]

I just wonder how this build will work with current end game i.e House C pack and epics?
Would you like to add any comment/improvements/gear layout considering recent changes in the game?

Thanks

AeoN

[niko18]

I just wonder how this build will work with current end game i.e House C pack and epics?
Would you like to add any comment/improvements/gear layout considering recent changes in the game?

Thanks

AeoN
+1 / quote

[Blank_Zero]

It will work.