Respec via +100% Earned XP Bonus

[Arcanoid]

You could accomplish a respec by allowing an existing character to return to level one, and in return they would get an xp bonus of something like +100% until they returned to the level they were on when they requested the respec.

They can use the same mechanism they have for Bonus XP Weekends.

No muss, no fuss to program.

[Gol]

You could accomplish a respec by allowing an existing character to return to level one, and in return they would get an xp bonus of something like +100% until they returned to the level they were on when they requested the respec.

They can use the same mechanism they have for Bonus XP Weekends.

No muss, no fuss to program.
Not a half bad idea.

What about tome usage though?

[TFPAQ]

But quite honestly, we've already paid our dues leveling through these same quests ad nausa.

Give everyone a free respect of everything, either every 6 months or once per year. Those that have played and paided for the last three years deserve to make the changes to their toons that keep them interested in playing and continuing their subscriptions.

[Deadz]

Not the worst idea i ever heard, keep them coming!

[Arcanoid]

Not a half bad idea.

What about tome usage though?

If they know when you used those in the past, they could just apply them at the appropriate levelas you progressed.

Due to tomes impacting skill points, feat selection, you would otherwise have to just reset the stats and all tomes would be lost.

This approach is meant to be easy and reasonably fair. Of course its not up to the level of let me make all choices over again, I just have to think that they are missing too much information on your past choices to make that approach work.

[rimble]

There's no reason to sweat tomes. Your level-up ability points should be stripped, but just leave tomes be. There's no reason Int should be the only non-fully-retroactive ability, so if you go back to level 1 with more Int than you had initially, more power to ya. There's absolutely no reason to stress over an additional skill point per level upon full respec.

[Thrudh]

You could accomplish a respec by allowing an existing character to return to level one, and in return they would get an xp bonus of something like +100% until they returned to the level they were on when they requested the respec.

They can use the same mechanism they have for Bonus XP Weekends.

No muss, no fuss to program.


Doubt they have it set up to give extra exp PER PLAYER (right now it's server-wide).

I'm all for respecs requiring a return to level 1 (with no exp boost). Keep all your loot (including raid loot), keep your tomes.

Favor? Maybe lose, maybe keep... not sure about that one.

[Uska]

But quite honestly, we've already paid our dues leveling through these same quests ad nausa.

Give everyone a free respect of everything, either every 6 months or once per year. Those that have played and paided for the last three years deserve to make the changes to their toons that keep them interested in playing and continuing their subscriptions.

NO way this is way to much and ridiculos

[Strakeln]

Doubt they have it set up to give extra exp PER PLAYER (right now it's server-wide).

I'm all for respecs requiring a return to level 1 (with no exp boost). Keep all your loot (including raid loot), keep your tomes.

Favor? Maybe lose, maybe keep... not sure about that one.How about a bound +100% XP trinket? They have something similar in game already so it wouldn't be hard to code.

[Impaqt]

Tomes should be easy to replace in a system like this....


"Reroll" button is hit.

Type Name to Confirm Reroll.

Characters XP is stripped, any "Inherent Bonus" to stats gets converted to a BOUND Tome that is placed in the characters inventory.

Favor Remains on the Character (Character also loses "First Time" bonus's for the quests hes done) Including Backpack slots and Bank Tabs.

You get sent to the Customize character screen when you allocate your starting stats just like you did when you first rolled the character. Name is Locked, But everything else can be customized.

[vtecfiend99]

Tomes should be easy to replace in a system like this....


"Reroll" button is hit.

Type Name to Confirm Reroll.

Characters XP is stripped, any "Inherent Bonus" to stats gets converted to a BOUND Tome that is placed in the characters inventory.

Favor Remains on the Character (Character also loses "First Time" bonus's for the quests hes done) Including Backpack slots and Bank Tabs.

You get sent to the Customize character screen when you allocate your starting stats just like you did when you first rolled the character. Name is Locked, But everything else can be customized.


This is how it should be, and has been discussed so many times that someone has to have noticed at Turbine. i still don't think we will ever, EVER see this though. For god's sake we just now getting a shared bank slot.

[Mercules]

Tomes should be easy to replace in a system like this....


"Reroll" button is hit.

Type Name to Confirm Reroll.

Characters XP is stripped, any "Inherent Bonus" to stats gets converted to a BOUND Tome that is placed in the characters inventory.

Favor Remains on the Character (Character also loses "First Time" bonus's for the quests hes done) Including Backpack slots and Bank Tabs.

You get sent to the Customize character screen when you allocate your starting stats just like you did when you first rolled the character. Name is Locked, But everything else can be customized.

That is actually a Re-roll option that addresses many of the issues. Nice.

My only problem with this is the Fighter who gets bored playing his level 16 Fighter and "respecs" into a level 16 Sorcerer although he has never played a Sorcerer. Would you care to play with him that first night... or even week?

[cm2_supernova]

Favor Remains on the Character (Character also loses "First Time" bonus's for the quests hes done) Including Backpack slots and Bank Tabs.


Just out of curiosity, how do ya think that leveling will work w\out the bonus XP? I can imagine that grinding WW\STK\TR\Delera's\VON etc etc would take for effing ever without the +25%\+50% bonus.

Would the cumulative times you ran a quest reset, or would I start at -50% for Thrall of the Necromancer due to repetition?

[Deathseeker]

Tomes should be easy to replace in a system like this....


"Reroll" button is hit.

Type Name to Confirm Reroll.

Characters XP is stripped, any "Inherent Bonus" to stats gets converted to a BOUND Tome that is placed in the characters inventory.

Favor Remains on the Character (Character also loses "First Time" bonus's for the quests hes done) Including Backpack slots and Bank Tabs.

You get sent to the Customize character screen when you allocate your starting stats just like you did when you first rolled the character. Name is Locked, But everything else can be customized.

I'd be satisfied with this. I'd even be ok if they took it a step further...and charged a small fee for this as a specialized service. They could give a free token when major mods hit and they nerf something. Otherwise, you have to pay a small fee.

The free token could also be a favor reward, event reward or some other rationale. It would be a very valuable thing unless you wanted to fork over real world cash.

I have no problem with Turbine trying to make a little more money in the process...

[Impaqt]

Just out of curiosity, how do ya think that leveling will work w\out the bonus XP? I can imagine that grinding WW\STK\TR\Delera's\VON etc etc would take for effing ever without the +25%\+50% bonus.

Would the cumulative times you ran a quest reset, or would I start at -50% for Thrall of the Necromancer due to repetition?

It will be substantially more difficult. Rerolling shouldn't be something thats done on a whim or taken lightly. This would be the only serious drawback to the reroll though. I think it would force people to explore more quests though as well. WHen you cant pound SC and delaras for the 12th time, maybe those necro quests look a little more enticing? Maybe those quests in house J might not be so bad.

[Thrudh]

That is actually a Re-roll option that addresses many of the issues. Nice.

My only problem with this is the Fighter who gets bored playing his level 16 Fighter and "respecs" into a level 16 Sorcerer although he has never played a Sorcerer. Would you care to play with him that first night... or even week?

His exp is stripped... He'll have to level up that sorc to level 16 just like anybody else...

[Kistilan]

You could accomplish a respec by allowing an existing character to return to level one, and in return they would get an xp bonus of something like +100% until they returned to the level they were on when they requested the respec.

They can use the same mechanism they have for Bonus XP Weekends.

No muss, no fuss to program.

In The Definitive Respec Thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=166202), myself and others offered this solution as part of the fix. *nods*

The question is does this become a respec, a reincarnation, or a reroll. Each has different starting variables. Also, as others have noted in this thread, deconstructing tomes into palpable use also becomes a number crunching possibility.

I'm all for a reincarnation utilizing this method, but the last thing that needs to be addressed is the cost. In-game cost? Money-cost? Limits on timeliness or unlimited use with timer? All kinds of variables for the developers to consider.

I in no way support a gimmeh-what-I-want respec, but a limited and costly version certainly would be a utilized tool.

[Thrudh]

It will be substantially more difficult. Rerolling shouldn't be something thats done on a whim or taken lightly. This would be the only serious drawback to the reroll though. I think it would force people to explore more quests though as well. WHen you cant pound SC and delaras for the 12th time, maybe those necro quests look a little more enticing? Maybe those quests in house J might not be so bad.

Yep good point... and your method would be pretty easy to code, I'd imagine...

[cardmj1]

What if there any way to reroll to level 1, keeping all stats (including inherent bonuses), raid loot, favor, xp and initial class taken, but everything else is reset? To clarify, it would reset all skill points, class levels from lvl 2 to cap, enhancements and feats. Is this something that yall would be interested in?

[Kistilan]

It will be substantially more difficult. Rerolling shouldn't be something thats done on a whim or taken lightly. This would be the only serious drawback to the reroll though. I think it would force people to explore more quests though as well. WHen you cant pound SC and delaras for the 12th time, maybe those necro quests look a little more enticing? Maybe those quests in house J might not be so bad.

Agreed. Keep the repetition counters & force 100% xp on other quests. This also benefits the casual gamer moreso than the power-gamer that hit sepecific quests for repeat xp. Meanwhile the casual-gamer can sit fat dumb & happy on a Delera's Run because it's not their 12th repetition -- more like their third with a 100% bonus factor.

[cm2_supernova]

It will be substantially more difficult. Rerolling shouldn't be something thats done on a whim or taken lightly. This would be the only serious drawback to the reroll though. I think it would force people to explore more quests though as well. WHen you cant pound SC and delaras for the 12th time, maybe those necro quests look a little more enticing? Maybe those quests in house J might not be so bad.

Its just my opinion, but I think that your respec mechanism that you mentioned earlier this thread would work really well (other than the xp bonus part), but the +100% xp bonus mentioned in the OP could be implemented because honestly, I can only run Rest for the Restless once every 6 months or else that tumor in my brain will start bleeding again :D

Seriously though, I think that full respec would be best as a premium service. Charge $25 or something so its not an 'on a whim' type of thing, but you can still level as per standard.

[Impaqt]

What if there any way to reroll to level 1, keeping all stats (including inherent bonuses), raid loot, favor, xp and initial class taken, but everything else is reset? To clarify, it would reset all skill points, class levels from lvl 2 to cap, enhancements and feats. Is this something that yall would be interested in?

All or nothing is my mentality. THe option here doesnt account for the folks that "Splashed" at level 1. One of the primary reasons to "Reroll" is because of things that have changed or been added to the game. THings that make a 1 level splash at creation much less appealing.

[Impaqt]

Its just my opinion, but I think that your respec mechanism that you mentioned earlier this thread would work really well (other than the xp bonus part), but the +100% xp bonus mentioned in the OP could be implemented because honestly, I can only run Rest for the Restless once every 6 months or else that tumor in my brain will start bleeding again :D

Seriously though, I think that full respec would be best as a premium service. Charge $25 or something so its not an 'on a whim' type of thing, but you can still level as per standard.

If you already did "Rest for the Restless" on the character, there woul dbe no reason for you to do it again with my system. You keep your Favor and completion.

AS Premium OPTION might ne nice though. The Premium Reroll would include resetting all Quest data(Which most likely would require some Manual intervention) or even allow you to Keep your XP so that you canjust go relevel the character immediatly by visiting your trainers.

[Ki_Draken_Magus]

That is actually a Re-roll option that addresses many of the issues. Nice.

My only problem with this is the Fighter who gets bored playing his level 16 Fighter and "respecs" into a level 16 Sorcerer although he has never played a Sorcerer. Would you care to play with him that first night... or even week?


Unfortunately, I've grouped with lvl 16 sorcerers (which was their main character) that probably would have been better off being a lvl 16 fighter. At the very least they would have had more HP before trying to tank.

Bad players are bad players, but good players overcome and adapt quickly.

[Mercules]

His exp is stripped... He'll have to level up that sorc to level 16 just like anybody else...

This exists... it's Called, "Delete".

Oh no, you lost tomes and bound items. :rolleyes:

[Kistilan]

AS Premium OPTION might ne nice though. The Premium Reroll would include resetting all Quest data(Which most likely would require some Manual intervention) or even allow you to Keep your XP so that you canjust go relevel the character immediatly by visiting your trainers.

I don't really like this option unless it's really restricted in timeliness due to the FotW/FotM tendencies that certain players will utilize this. Force them to relevel and play content over is a better option for the community as a whole.

Those that wish to solo because they're aces can still solo. I've seen that arguement too many times -- just don't group with new players if you're so anti-social, ya know? Relevel on your lonesome and with your small click of friends when they're on and leave the rest of the population doing what this game is meant to be -- massive multi-player online rpg. If ya just going to play with your small click, there's games for that like Diablo & Never Winter Nights.

[Fallout]

Tomes should be easy to replace in a system like this....


"Reroll" button is hit.

Type Name to Confirm Reroll.

Characters XP is stripped, any "Inherent Bonus" to stats gets converted to a BOUND Tome that is placed in the characters inventory.

Favor Remains on the Character (Character also loses "First Time" bonus's for the quests hes done) Including Backpack slots and Bank Tabs.

You get sent to the Customize character screen when you allocate your starting stats just like you did when you first rolled the character. Name is Locked, But everything else can be customized.


No on losing first time bonus and losing inventory slots.
The system works great for someone who doesn't grind favor, bad for those who do.
Losing slots doesn't make sense if you already keep the favor.

This is an ideal for premium services. Paying 25 bucks is worth it then spending a month on leveling. Time vs Cost.

If you make respeccing that prohibitive, then it discourages people, making it a wasted dev's time on their part.

Again, its an option. If respeccing some how bothers people.. DON'T DO IT. simple.

[Fallout]

I don't really like this option unless it's really restricted in timeliness due to the FotW/FotM tendencies that certain players will utilize this. Force them to relevel and play content over is a better option for the community as a whole.



In the respec thread, I have said my arguments for respecing. Free version and Premium Service. Free, you have to grind for respec. Premium, you pay real money. Covers both bases for those who would use the service and those who don't want to pay.

Premium Service accomplishes alot of things.

-Generate constant passive income for Turbine. Once done, it can always be used.

-Usually people who use this will be working people. 25 bucks vs spending a month doing the exact same boring grind is a fair price to pay.

-FOTM? Well if they keep on doing that, they're spending alot of money.

Its a win win.

[Impaqt]

No on losing first time bonus and losing inventory slots.

Its a Reroll, its the same character, Just being releveled. Why should He get First time bonus' again? and I'm nt sure where you got the losing inv slot thing from. I said Inv Slots should remain.


The system works great for someone who doesn't grind favor, bad for those who do.
Losing slots doesn't make sense if you already keep the favor.

THere we go again.. WHere did I say anything about losing slots? and the system Leaves Favor intact. If you got 1750, and picked up a +2 Favor Tome, this system puts that Tome in your inventory when you "Reroll"



This is an ideal for premium services. Paying 25 bucks is worth it then spending a month on leveling. Time vs Cost.

If you make respeccing that prohibitive, then it discourages people, making it a wasted dev's time on their part.

It should be Prohibitive though. If its not, you just wind up with people grabbing any ole raid loot that drops :Because I might wanna reroll this Barb as a Sorc next week". We dont need that.



Again, its an option. If respeccing some how bothers people.. DON'T DO IT. simple.

[Impaqt]

I don't really like this option unless it's really restricted in timeliness due to the FotW/FotM tendencies that certain players will utilize this. Force them to relevel and play content over is a better option for the community as a whole.

Those that wish to solo because they're aces can still solo. I've seen that arguement too many times -- just don't group with new players if you're so anti-social, ya know? Relevel on your lonesome and with your small click of friends when they're on and leave the rest of the population doing what this game is meant to be -- massive multi-player online rpg. If ya just going to play with your small click, there's games for that like Diablo & Never Winter Nights.
I agree with you on a lot of things, but this just seems like your angry at someone.

Soloing isnt about being anti-social. Its about the challenge. Running withn a Guild exclusively isnt about being anti-social, Its about making sure you enjoy the game the way you want to play it. If your "Small Clique" shares your statagies and playstyle, theres nothing wrong with sticking with that.

DDO is the only "MMO" that truely Discourages solo Play. Every other MMO I've played has allowed people to succeed solo and join groups for specific quests if they choose. This is one of the bigest turn offs many people run into playing DDO. So many characters and players get turned off when they CANT solo some of the newbie content or even find something to do in the slow times. Explorer zones are nice, but its kinda hollow once you've been in em for a bit. After a while, you can literally spend hours in an explorer zone before you seen any XP at all.

This wouldnt be such an issue if DDO had ANYTHING to do other than Quest. If I have a 1/2 of "Down Time" What should I do? Maybe work on my Crafting? Hmph.. Nope.. Hand some new trophy's in my house? WHoops.. No again... Go Solo Coalesence Chamber? Sounds like a plan.

[Fallout]

Its a Reroll, its the same character, Just being releveled. Why should He get First time bonus' again? and I'm nt sure where you got the losing inv slot thing from. I said Inv Slots should remain.

THere we go again.. WHere did I say anything about losing slots? and the system Leaves Favor intact. If you got 1750, and picked up a +2 Favor Tome, this system puts that Tome in your inventory when you "Reroll"

It should be Prohibitive though. If its not, you just wind up with people grabbing any ole raid loot that drops :Because I might wanna reroll this Barb as a Sorc next week". We dont need that.

Sorry misread that about the inventory slot.

As far as the raid loot goes, its the person's raid loot, if he's going to pay 25 bucks or whatever every week, he's blowing alot of real money away.

[cm2_supernova]

It should be Prohibitive though. If its not, you just wind up with people grabbing any ole raid loot that drops :Because I might wanna reroll this Barb as a Sorc next week". We dont need that.

That is actually a really good point...Im glad you brought that up.

[ahpook]

I like the relevel with 100% bonus XP as the model for respec'ing. With Impaqts model for putting tomes back in your back pack and keeping favor and favor rewards of course. (I would even be happy if they implemented min levels on tomes and the ones in your back pack had those min levels attached.) I would really prefer a more selective delevel option that would let you replace a specific level, but this would be much simpler to implement.

This could even be used to allow 28 pt builds to upgrade to 32 point builds.

Of course even with 100% bonus it would become more difficult to continually respec as eventually you would be getting reduced XP on every quest. Eventually the 100% bonus would merely bring you back up to slightly above the base amount for quest and not the double XP that the OP might hae intended.

[Kistilan]

I agree with you on a lot of things, but this just seems like your angry at someone.

Soloing isnt about being anti-social. Its about the challenge. Running withn a Guild exclusively isnt about being anti-social, Its about making sure you enjoy the game the way you want to play it. If your "Small Clique" shares your statagies and playstyle, theres nothing wrong with sticking with that.

DDO is the only "MMO" that truely Discourages solo Play. Every other MMO I've played has allowed people to succeed solo and join groups for specific quests if they choose. This is one of the bigest turn offs many people run into playing DDO. So many characters and players get turned off when they CANT solo some of the newbie content or even find something to do in the slow times. Explorer zones are nice, but its kinda hollow once you've been in em for a bit. After a while, you can literally spend hours in an explorer zone before you seen any XP at all.

This wouldnt be such an issue if DDO had ANYTHING to do other than Quest. If I have a 1/2 of "Down Time" What should I do? Maybe work on my Crafting? Hmph.. Nope.. Hand some new trophy's in my house? WHoops.. No again... Go Solo Coalesence Chamber? Sounds like a plan.

I agree with what you've said, and perhaps it was a bit in anger my former point about solo vs socialness. The reason why that came across angry and poignantly aimed at solo & replay groupings was that many individuals stated they would rather run solo than play with newer or less-experienced ie "non-elite."

Their arguement for offering a Full Character Respec was to keep themselves out of the harbor/market and not run with the new/less-experienced players (ie anti-social). Their reasoning was that they would only get angry and create disparity and anger with the other players by their own abilities, playstyles & "twinking." So yeah, my arguement was aimed at those that think the game is meant to be solo'd or run with only the best of friends at all times and exclude all other players. That kind of irks me a little.

Does that mean I don't solo things? No, I do that -- it is a challenge I enjoy too. However, I don't exclude based on the fact that a new player will "slow me down" a little or that I'll leave a bad taste in their mouth if they group with me as I run through the quest quickly.

Also, back on topic, I agree that the FotM/FotW ability could result in massive hoarding of raid loot and greed. It probably would be bad for large guilds & unguilded players -- only the smaller clicks & guilds would be able to handle the situation properly. Everyone else, FFA and "Hey, you get it first if you want it and you want it because you can be any class you want!" Yeah, that would be a bad deal for raid loot in general.

[Mhykke]

Their arguement for offering a Full Character Respec was to keep themselves out of the harbor/market and not run with the new/less-experienced players (ie anti-social).

This was never the argument. Not even close. I'd say nice try, but it really wasn't.

[Kistilan]

This was never the argument. Not even close. I'd say nice try, but it really wasn't.

You seem to like looking for my posts and nay-saying them.

I don't want to get into it again, but Bandyman did make this arguement.

It's somewhere in the first 120 pages (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=166202). Maybe you don't like the terminology? Ok, supporting the arguement in which replay value was a moot idea, there was a viewpoint in which replaying old content via a Full Character Respec in which one was required to gain xp and relevel was rejected because one would rather solo content due to speed and anti-social tendencies. Furthermore, it was stated that the reroll "elite" player would blaze through the content so quickly that they would either become agitated with the slower "new" players or that their zerg-tendencies would turn-off the new player from further adventures due to the speed at which the quest was completed.

[Fenrisulven6]

But quite honestly, we've already paid our dues leveling through these same quests ad nausa.

I think he's looking at it from the "what woud be easiest for the coders"

[Aesop]

Hey Impact.

First. I like it. Its simple and elegent and gets the job done.

However. A major problem with Rerolling a character is the Bound Loot. If you have a character that has that damned Titan Belt and the Greensteel Arsenal and worst of all the Perfect DT set up ... what happens to all that. Those items represent a Monster of a Grind. What happens to those under this system? Do they get dropped into your Bank Slots?




Aesop

[Riorik]

If they know when you used those in the past, they could just apply them at the appropriate levelas you progressed.

Due to tomes impacting skill points, feat selection, you would otherwise have to just reset the stats and all tomes would be lost.

This approach is meant to be easy and reasonably fair. Of course its not up to the level of let me make all choices over again, I just have to think that they are missing too much information on your past choices to make that approach work.

They could always do it as an assumption. +1 Tomes available at level x, +2 Tomes available at level y, +3 Tomes available at level z (and the single +4 at whatever if they're actually respeccing that character.

Yes, this may not match what actually happened if somebody used a full set of +2's at level 1, but what else could they really do if they're trying to limit things.

I'd argue that there's not really any point in limiting things.

[Mindspat]

You already have the ability to respecify the characters full stats, it's called a reroll stoofid!

There is no excusable or allowable situation that could convince me in favor of the OP eve though I've spent points into areas with main that almost everyone would deem as dumb or innefecient.

[Mindspat]

How about a bound +100% XP trinket? They have something similar in game already so it wouldn't be hard to code.

...or a potion that increases EXP gained?

[Fallout]

Also, back on topic, I agree that the FotM/FotW ability could result in massive hoarding of raid loot and greed.

So you expect to roll on other people's loot all the time?

Again, with cost and timer, the term 'FOTM' doesn't apply. For example for free respec, probably would have long timer and cost. Look at feat/enhancement now, there's a timer. Respec would be no different, but much longer timer, or once per mod. Premium services, no timer, but pay real money. How many people will pay 25 bucks or whatever every week for FOTM???

[Fallout]

You already have the ability to respecify the characters full stats, it's called a reroll stoofid!

There is no excusable or allowable situation that could convince me in favor of the OP eve though I've spent points into areas with main that almost everyone would deem as dumb or innefecient.

Thanks for the insight and superb debate.

[dopey69]

Not a half bad idea.

What about tome usage though?

i would say if you get to repec it should only be once per charachter for FREE do to all these changes to and the adding of capstones. any other time would take a fee to turbine for the respecs. and as far as the tomes I would say you loose them all except for the 1750 one that way you have the option take respec and loose tomes or stay as gimpped as turbine made you and keep your tomes.I just think the whole management of figuring out the tomes each charachter ate would take too much time for turbine to do. I wish we would here the devs chime in on this ,at least say if it has even come up at turbine at all. I think it would be a huge mistake on turbines end not to have a one time respec availlable with the release of mod 9 imho and when they start charging for the respecs they can look forward to a lot more money coming from me ........because I am......the gimp master :)

[dopey69]

Just out of curiosity, how do ya think that leveling will work w\out the bonus XP? I can imagine that grinding WW\STK\TR\Delera's\VON etc etc would take for effing ever without the +25%\+50% bonus.

Would the cumulative times you ran a quest reset, or would I start at -50% for Thrall of the Necromancer due to repetition?

i would say you would keep the xp you have now but would be reduced to lvl one and need too go to the trainers to spend you ap and lvl up to 16 again shouldn't take but an hour or so me thinks. just the part of us that took the class we want to get rid of first would have to revert to lvl one as a different class than we originaly started so as an earlier poster said would have to go all the way back to charachter generation page *sighs*

[Mhykke]

You seem to like looking for my posts and nay-saying them.

I don't want to get into it again, but Bandyman did make this arguement.

It's somewhere in the first 120 pages (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=166202). Maybe you don't like the terminology? Ok, supporting the arguement in which replay value was a moot idea, there was a viewpoint in which replaying old content via a Full Character Respec in which one was required to gain xp and relevel was rejected because one would rather solo content due to speed and anti-social tendencies. Furthermore, it was stated that the reroll "elite" player would blaze through the content so quickly that they would either become agitated with the slower "new" players or that their zerg-tendencies would turn-off the new player from further adventures due to the speed at which the quest was completed.

First off:

I'm not going to point out how ridiculous it is to say that "one person made the argument, so that must be the argument, over thousands of posts, for character respecs"....but I will say how ridiculous it is for you to try and attribute an argument to someone, and then as evidence, you cite 120 pages worth of a thread, and provide a link to the thread generally. If you're going to attribute a quote or an argument to someone, provide support. If not, don't use their name, and don't say "someone" said it. :rolleyes:

Now that I got your procedural errors out of the way, lets move on to the substance of your argument.

1.
there was a viewpoint in which replaying old content via a Full Character Respec in which one was required to gain xp and relevel was rejected....

There wasn't a rejection of having to go back and relevel in a respec. In fact, that's the idea that a lot of people favor, including myself. Keep your stuff, start over at level 1. Are some people against it? Sure. But don't act like there was no support of going back to relevel. That's what I always considered respeccing.

2.
one would rather solo content due to speed and anti-social tendencies. Furthermore, it was stated that the reroll "elite" player would blaze through the content so quickly that they would either become agitated with the slower "new" players or that their zerg-tendencies would turn-off the new player from further adventures due to the speed at which the quest was completed.

Your argument is contradictory. You say one was going to solo low level content, while at the same time that person would become agitated at the new people he or she was grouped with.

3. The low level content thing is irrelevant. If people don't like running with new people through low level content, they would simply do what they do now. That is, they'd group with friends that were on lowbies, and when those weren't on, they'd solo some quests and/or explorer areas.

[Kistilan]

So you expect to roll on other people's loot all the time?

No. If you're gathering that implication, then that's your spin on it. I didn't say that. I said it encourages individuals to not allow rolls. How you run your raid group is up to you, but greed is heightened with additional options, and therefore more non-team-player choices may be made at the end regardless of the Raid's Rules.

[Kistilan]

First off:

I'm not going to point out how ridiculous it is to say that "one person made the argument, so that must be the argument, over thousands of posts, for character respecs"....but I will say how ridiculous it is for you to try and attribute an argument to someone, and then as evidence, you cite 120 pages worth of a thread, and provide a link to the thread generally. If you're going to attribute a quote or an argument to someone, provide support. If not, don't use their name, and don't say "someone" said it. :rolleyes:

Now that I got your procedural errors out of the way, lets move on to the substance of your argument.

1.

There wasn't a rejection of having to go back and relevel in a respec. In fact, that's the idea that a lot of people favor, including myself. Keep your stuff, start over at level 1. Are some people against it? Sure. But don't act like there was no support of going back to relevel. That's what I always considered respeccing.

2.

Your argument is contradictory. You say one was going to solo low level content, while at the same time that person would become agitated at the new people he or she was grouped with.

3. The low level content thing is irrelevant. If people don't like running with new people through low level content, they would simply do what they do now. That is, they'd group with friends that were on lowbies, and when those weren't on, they'd solo some quests and/or explorer areas.

1. I didn't have time and we both know the quotes in that thread. I attributed the main person that started the thought-process, but OTHERS not unlike yourself also said "YAY!" to that idea. I'm not going to waste my time finding the quote in that huge thread. We know it's there. I pointed it there for those who had not read it -- they may want to read the entire arguement since this thread is directly linked to it. That's the purpose of the link. I'm not your personal secretary on all definitions, sir. I don't expect you to prove to me that it's not there -- we both know there were 4-5 pages in that thread regarding this exact subject.

2. It's not contradictory. Reread it. It may not have been clear, but you're reading it for contradictary. It was a hypothetical and both statements applied to "If this, or If that... THEN."

3. It's irrelevant to you and those who don't like running with new players AT ALL. Other players, if they were going to run low-level content, wouldn't mind running with new players. However, MOST players, given the opportunity, would not run the new content if there was a magic genie button that allowed them to swop classes at level 20 ala Genie-in-a-bottle. Therefore, I contend that it is pertinent because enabling that choice is a sure way to kill the low-level content and social factor for new players.

[Fallout]

No. If you're gathering that implication, then that's your spin on it. I didn't say that. I said it encourages individuals to not allow rolls. How you run your raid group is up to you, but greed is heightened with additional options, and therefore more non-team-player choices may be made at the end regardless of the Raid's Rules.

Then haven't explain how it encourages people not to allow rolls.

So you're afraid a wizard who pulled an uber sword, not allowing you to roll on it, to keep it for himself, who you're afraid he will respec into a fighter?

[Kistilan]

Then haven't explain how it encourages people not to allow rolls.

So you're afraid a wizard who pulled an uber sword, not allowing you to roll on it, to keep it for himself, who you're afraid he will respec into a fighter?

I'm not afraid of anything. I'm stating it encourages players to be greedier than normal. If you were a wizard and had zero use for the sword, you probably would offer it to the group.

If you had the ability to respec as a fighter, had icy rainments, a chattering ring, and a whole lot of other raid-gear, that raid-bound sword might look mighty tasty as you reconsider a full-character respec into a meleer.

It's not for my benefit. I usually put things up for role in raid groups. I'm stating it may make others more-prone to greed.