Quicken Metamagic for Heal Bot cleric?

[PetertheJerk]

Hey Guys,
I have a pure healing bot cleric and I'm about to hit lvl 12 and was told to take the quicken metamagic feat. Im kinda torn though because it would drastically decrease my mana efficiency to use it (by adding 10mp per cast!). So i was wondering how you cleric pros feel about the feat. Also if you disagree with using quicken, which feat would u suggest?

Here are the feats i've currently taken
lvl 1: Extend Spell
lvl 1: (Human Bonus): Increased # of Turnings
lvl 3: Mental Toughness
lvl 6: Improved mental toughness
lvl 9: Empower Healing
lvl 12: ??
lvl 15: ??

Thanks in advance for the advice

[EazyWeazy]

Take it. Do it. Don't look back. You'll love it. May main cleric swapped into it around mod 5 and I can't believe I waited that long. I've got a new one that is level 11 right now and he can't wait to take it at 12. Enjoy the fun.

[Hobgoblin]

it is not necessary but it is o so nice

[esoitl]

EVERY Cleric should have Quicken.
Blade Barriers are amazing yet they take so bloody long to cast. There are also certain times during the Shroud(Part 3, parts of Part 4) I have it on and then turn it off promptly to save SP.

It's not something you will have on all the time but it is almost a must have.

[Oreg]

A pure healing bot can still be an effective damage dealer. Drop the Increased number of turnings (get them from enhancements if you want) and pickup Quicken, Maximize and Empower.

[Arnya]

Save SP?

Take Max, Emp, Extend, Quicken. Forget Empower Healing.

Your blade barriers and harms mitigate the need for buckets of Sp to heal lesser classes :)

Seriously though, pure healbots = pure damagebots if you swap a few feats you can play however the mood takes ya :)

[PetertheJerk]

Save SP?

Take Max, Emp, Extend, Quicken. Forget Empower Healing.

Your blade barriers and harms mitigate the need for buckets of Sp to heal lesser classes :)

Seriously though, pure healbots = pure damagebots if you swap a few feats you can play however the mood takes ya :)

Hey Arnya i think your in the wrong thread. Sounds to me like your trying to make a DPS sorc :)

[Uska]

No doubt take it

[PetertheJerk]

Alright deal ill take it. Any suggestions on my lvl 15 feat? And does any cleric take toughness?

[Junts]

Hey Arnya i think your in the wrong thread. Sounds to me like your trying to make a DPS sorc :)


The point is that you can make a cleric that is both an excellent healer and does something else (dps or offesnvie cast) with basically no penalty. 60 sp for some caster or cleric is nothing compared to mobs running back and forth through a 240 damage blade barrier


hwoever, even if you don't do that, quicken is essential for high-level raiding: if you're losing concentration on mass heals, people will die and you fail as a cleric. The ability to evade concentration checks is essential, even if you toggle it on and off and don't use it all the time

[Uska]

Alright deal ill take it. Any suggestions on my lvl 15 feat? And does any cleric take toughness?


maximize can turn on or as you want for healing and even as a healbot its nice to be able to drop a blade barrier now and then.

[Junts]

Alright deal ill take it. Any suggestions on my lvl 15 feat? And does any cleric take toughness?

Every toon shoudl take toughness, imo anyway; especially if you do not know the character extremely well. if you're human, its 52 hp; if your hp are under 250 as a cleric, definitely; you dont have fire sheild and you have a terrible reflex save.

[Mhykke]

quicken is essential for high-level raiding

I agree it's nice.

I don't agree that it's essential.

[Oreg]

Hey Arnya i think your in the wrong thread. Sounds to me like your trying to make a DPS sorc :)

Actually his/her suggestion is the same as mine and makes you a good dps machine without any cost to your healing. All you lost was a few dvs. It's good sound advice and I will be awaiting your post when you come back some months from now thanking he/she and I for it ;)

[Junts]

I agree it's nice.

I don't agree that it's essential.

if a bat explosion makes your cleric lose concentration on a mass heal, vod gets ugly quickly

sure, there's a variety of ways to avoid the problem, but none of them is guaranteed; quicken is

[Mhykke]

if a bat explosion makes your cleric lose concentration on a mass heal, vod gets ugly quickly

sure, there's a variety of ways to avoid the problem, but none of them is guaranteed; quicken is

I've never had quicken on my cleric, and I can honestly say I don't remember the last time I failed a concentration check. And I don't just stand in the back and heal. If I have any hp damage, I jump in the middle of the fray and mass heal the party so I get some love also. I've done every quest w/ my cleric, on all different kinds of difficulties. Quicken is very nice if you can fit it in. It's far from a requirement though.

[Arnya]

Hey Arnya i think your in the wrong thread. Sounds to me like your trying to make a DPS sorc :)

All sorcs are DPS unless you make deliberately bad choices.

Any cleric that takes empower healing over any other metamagic is going to have a boring, quite possibly gimpy, life.

Like I said, with the right feat selection, a healbot IS a dps-bot as long as you dont squander your feats on what other party members 'need'.

[Auran82]

I'm also a fan of empower healing, esp if you can take the enhancements and have something with the "Improved Empower Healing II' ability on it.

4sp for +50% to your healing spells is nice :)

I ended up dropping IMT for it, I'm finding that 1595 sp is more than enough and I in many quests I will use scrolls to make sure I always have SP when I need it.

[Thorzian]

i agree with the others.. maximize for yer last.

[EazyWeazy]

I'd take maximize for your last feat and swap out the Extra turning for toughness. As people have said here, you can lay down the DPS with BBs and not sacrifice any effectiveness in your healing ability.

[ghettoGenius]

I've never had quicken on my cleric, and I can honestly say I don't remember the last time I failed a concentration check. And I don't just stand in the back and heal. If I have any hp damage, I jump in the middle of the fray and mass heal the party so I get some love also. I've done every quest w/ my cleric, on all different kinds of difficulties. Quicken is very nice if you can fit it in. It's far from a requirement though.

Out of curiosity do you have combat casting? What are your thoughts on the usefulness of this feat vs the metamagic feats mentioned above?

[Thrudh]

I've never had quicken on my cleric, and I can honestly say I don't remember the last time I failed a concentration check. And I don't just stand in the back and heal. If I have any hp damage, I jump in the middle of the fray and mass heal the party so I get some love also. I've done every quest w/ my cleric, on all different kinds of difficulties. Quicken is very nice if you can fit it in. It's far from a requirement though.

Interesting... I've forgotten to turn Quicken on at times, and then suddenly notice my spells aren't going off...

Do you have a very high concentration score?

I find it hard to believe you never fail a concentration check (maybe you do, and then just complain to the group about the lag :))

If a super high concentration score is good enough, then we clerics should shoot for that, and save a feat (and SP)

[Chaos000]

When you cast, you slow down, when your kiting mobs through a bladebarrier you're bound to get hit a couple times... if you take enough damage you feel the need to heal yourself. You might consider that slowing down in midcast you're going to get hit.

If you bladebarrier kite. pick up quicken

[alchilito]

yes. Take it if you dont want to be the gimpy cleric screaming IM SORRY GUYS IM FAILING MY CONCENTRATION CHECKS

ding ding ding ding ding ding /wipe

[Mhykke]

Out of curiosity do you have combat casting? What are your thoughts on the usefulness of this feat vs the metamagic feats mentioned above?

No, don't take combat casting, not worth it. I'm not suggesting that quicken shouldn't be taken. If you find yourself failing concentration scores at high level, then by all means, take it. But if failing concentrations isn't an issue for you, then it's not essential.

This is a very important aspect of clericing, if your spells aren't going off then the party might get into trouble. So it's worth testing slowly. Maybe take quicken and turn it off occasionally and see if you're failing checks. I know I was worried at first about not having quicken, so I was a bit tentative, making sure I wasn't taking damage. As I played more and more, I became more comfortable, noticing I wasn't failing checks. Now, I jump in and get batted around like a pinball.


Interesting... I've forgotten to turn Quicken on at times, and then suddenly notice my spells aren't going off...

Do you have a very high concentration score?

I find it hard to believe you never fail a concentration check (maybe you do, and then just complain to the group about the lag :))

If a super high concentration score is good enough, then we clerics should shoot for that, and save a feat (and SP)

Yes, I forget the exact number, but my concentration is somewhere in the mid 50's. Have a high reflex save, use cold shield clickies, like to kill stuff, etc. etc. I don't think anyone that has played with my cleric would complain about me not having quicken, if they even noticed.

[sjwalker1973]

Got quicken on my cleric. Works great. Casts quickly. The only drawback it's easy to run out of mana if you're not paying attention.

[alchilito]

I don't think anyone that has played with my cleric would complain about me not having quicken, if they even noticed.

That halfer IS quite sturdy ill give you that.

[sjwalker1973]

Remember:

Quicken speeds up the casting time and all spells are cast (no concentration checks needed). It's great to take at the later levels for raids so that you aren't interrupted during casting. Especially Necro raid.

[adamkatt]

Take it, then kill em all!

[sephiroth1084]

Interesting... I've forgotten to turn Quicken on at times, and then suddenly notice my spells aren't going off...

Do you have a very high concentration score?

I find it hard to believe you never fail a concentration check (maybe you do, and then just complain to the group about the lag :))

If a super high concentration score is good enough, then we clerics should shoot for that, and save a feat (and SP)

I can recall failing a Concentration check on my wizard maybe once in the last month. Not a cleric, sure, but there is likely no difference between the 2 (drow wiz, with a starting 14 Con, which is easily doable by a cleric of any race), and I don't yet have a Con skills +6 item. Just max ranks and a 22 Con.

As a cleric, make sure you request Stoneskin from the party wizard, bard, UMD rogue, or sorc. If you find that they aren't carrying the spell or wands very often, buy some yourself and give it to them with the instructions that they a) us it on you, and b) return it after the quest. Try to pick up an item that grants fireshield (as a clicky or on-hit effect). This last point I'm sort of taking a stab in the dark with since I've never gotten any of those items and obviously have the spell to cast on my wiz. The key point here, is that with good play, spells that mitigate damage, and a solid concentration check, there are few instances where one will fail a check.

It's in those instances, the ones that occur time and again, that Quicken becomes necessary. I'd say you should experiment a bit: leave Quicken off most of the time and see how often/where you're failing concentration checks. If it happens to be the same (or similar) circumstances, then you know when you need Quicken. For example, if you find that you can get through all of part 4 of the Shroud consistently (when you get there) without failing a check, then there is no need to turn it on, but it bears testing, since stuff like this tends to be about 50% game statistics and 50% player skill.

[Chaos000]

I can recall failing a Concentration check on my wizard maybe once in the last month. Not a cleric, sure, but there is likely no difference between the 2 (drow wiz, with a starting 14 Con, which is easily doable by a cleric of any race), and I don't yet have a Con skills +6 item. Just max ranks and a 22 Con.

Unless you're rolling out with a wf wizard and you're reconstructing yourself while kiting something through your firewall, you'll find that quicken is fine to leave off your list. As you can usually expect someone to toss you some healing your way if you get too low. As a cleric, all bets are off. Any healing headed your way is probably self induced unless you're running with people that know what they're doing which really isn't the case.

[sephiroth1084]

Unless you're rolling out with a wf wizard and you're reconstructing yourself while kiting something through your firewall, you'll find that quicken is fine to leave off your list. As you can usually expect someone to toss you some healing your way if you get too low. As a cleric, all bets are off. Any healing headed your way is probably self induced unless you're running with people that know what they're doing which really isn't the case.

Admittedly, wizards have more ways than clerics do to just not get hit, but I solo a fair amount (the Vale sometimes, Offering of Blood on elite, etc...). I can usually get off whatever I'm casting even while being hit. I drink my own pots, which is usually enough. It may be different for clerics, but I don't see how. Yeah, firewall goes down faster than blade barrier, but long-cast spells require a little planning (or Quicken). As for the healing...clerics should all have several Jump clickies on them. Again, I don't play a cleric, and probably never will try again. I was simply offering up some of my experience for comparison.

[bobbryan2]

I can recall failing a Concentration check on my wizard maybe once in the last month. Not a cleric, sure, but there is likely no difference between the 2 (drow wiz, with a starting 14 Con, which is easily doable by a cleric of any race), and I don't yet have a Con skills +6 item. Just max ranks and a 22 Con.

As a cleric, make sure you request Stoneskin from the party wizard, bard, UMD rogue, or sorc. If you find that they aren't carrying the spell or wands very often, buy some yourself and give it to them with the instructions that they a) us it on you, and b) return it after the quest. Try to pick up an item that grants fireshield (as a clicky or on-hit effect). This last point I'm sort of taking a stab in the dark with since I've never gotten any of those items and obviously have the spell to cast on my wiz. The key point here, is that with good play, spells that mitigate damage, and a solid concentration check, there are few instances where one will fail a check.

It's in those instances, the ones that occur time and again, that Quicken becomes necessary. I'd say you should experiment a bit: leave Quicken off most of the time and see how often/where you're failing concentration checks. If it happens to be the same (or similar) circumstances, then you know when you need Quicken. For example, if you find that you can get through all of part 4 of the Shroud consistently (when you get there) without failing a check, then there is no need to turn it on, but it bears testing, since stuff like this tends to be about 50% game statistics and 50% player skill.

In general a cleric is not a wizard. I don't jump into the fray on a caster trying to put down a blade barrier in front of 15 guys. I might put an acid fog down... but you can project those... blade barrier is always right on top of you.

Not to mention the cleric normally isn't hasted, jumped, stoneskinned and displaced. Those things help concentration checks a 'ton'.

[sephiroth1084]

In general a cleric is not a wizard. I don't jump into the fray on a caster trying to put down a blade barrier in front of 15 guys. I might put an acid fog down... but you can project those... blade barrier is always right on top of you.

Not to mention the cleric normally isn't hasted, jumped, stoneskinned and displaced. Those things help concentration checks a 'ton'.

True. Part of the reason I make sure to hit clerics with most of those (Jump, Stone, Blur, Haste). But, yeah, I hadn't been thinking about the fact that BB is self-centered. Then again, clerics have Cometfall and Greater Command. Those seem like good openers before putting down a BB, to buy some time. Guess the differences are greater than I realized, though.

[Gaermain]

Hey Guys,
I have a pure healing bot cleric and I'm about to hit lvl 12 and was told to take the quicken metamagic feat. Im kinda torn though because it would drastically decrease my mana efficiency to use it (by adding 10mp per cast!). So i was wondering how you cleric pros feel about the feat. Also if you disagree with using quicken, which feat would u suggest?

Here are the feats i've currently taken
lvl 1: Extend Spell
lvl 1: (Human Bonus): Increased # of Turnings
lvl 3: Mental Toughness
lvl 6: Improved mental toughness
lvl 9: Empower Healing
lvl 12: ??
lvl 15: ??

Thanks in advance for the advice

This is the route I went on a "healbot"

1. Extend
1. Dragon Mark
3. Mental Toughness
6. Improved Mental Toughness
9. Empower
When I could equip 25% striders I swapped out Dragon Mark for Quicken.
12. Maximize
At level 13 I swapped out Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness for Spell Penetration and SF: Necromancy.
15. Heighten

End result: Extend, Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Heighten, Spell Pen, SF: Necromancy.

I'm debating swapping out Extend for Toughness, but haven't really gotten around to doing it yet.

This is the first cleric I took Quicken on. I resisted horribly to the hype. I'll never go without it again. It's not necessary, but **** - it's nice.

By the way, quicken is for my blade barrier - not my heals. Ha.

[PetertheJerk]

Hey Guys,
I appreciate all the input. I ended up taking quicken like many of you recommended, and i must admit...i do feel godly. My arms wave so fast now when i cast that i dont know wat to do with myself while i wait for the 1 second cooldown. I'm not sure if it makes me a better healer but it definately makes me feel cooler which i wasnt aware was important until now haha..

As for lvl 15, I agree with Maximize, blade barrier is just as addicting as my newest metamagic and i need to do as much dmg as possible.

Last thing i wanna bring up is how come so few clerics take the "improved # of turning" feat? When used with divine healing, i have 15 uses per rest (16 base cha + increase # turning III + hat with plus 4 cha) and it acts as a huge reservoir of out-of-battle slow healing.

Thanks again for helping me not gimp my cleric

[FluffyCalico]

The point is that you can make a cleric that is both an excellent healer and does something else (dps or offesnvie cast) with basically no penalty. 60 sp for some caster or cleric is nothing compared to mobs running back and forth through a 240 damage blade barrier


hwoever, even if you don't do that, quicken is essential for high-level raiding: if you're losing concentration on mass heals, people will die and you fail as a cleric. The ability to evade concentration checks is essential, even if you toggle it on and off and don't use it all the time

Name 1 raid where quicken is needed. I can't think of even 1 where it is desireable. If your non-battle cleric is failing concentration checks your group is doing something very wrong

[sephiroth1084]

Hey Guys,
I appreciate all the input. I ended up taking quicken like many of you recommended, and i must admit...i do feel godly. My arms wave so fast now when i cast that i dont know wat to do with myself while i wait for the 1 second cooldown. I'm not sure if it makes me a better healer but it definately makes me feel cooler which i wasnt aware was important until now haha..

As for lvl 15, I agree with Maximize, blade barrier is just as addicting as my newest metamagic and i need to do as much dmg as possible.

Last thing i wanna bring up is how come so few clerics take the "improved # of turning" feat? When used with divine healing, i have 15 uses per rest (16 base cha + increase # turning III + hat with plus 4 cha) and it acts as a huge reservoir of out-of-battle slow healing.

Thanks again for helping me not gimp my cleric

It is a big investment of AP and ability points (raising Cha early on), and the out of combat healing is mediocre at higher levels. I like getting it on my tank, or my wizard, but its usually pretty unimpressive. As a feat, Extra Turning just doesn't beat out the other feats most clerics want to be taking (Extend, Empower Healing, Maximize, Spell Pen. x2, Toughness, Mental Toughness x2 are some of the more important feats). Also, Divine Vitality (restores SP to other casters) is probably far more valuable, since, with the highest tier and enough turns, you can be restoring 400 or more SP to another cleric, a wizard, a sorc, a bard, or passing it around in small doses to the paladins and rangers. I LOVE clerics with DVs when I'm on my wiz.

[Pwesiela]

All sorcs are DPS unless you make deliberately bad choices

Correction: All sorcs are DPS because Turbine doesn't believe in having the schools of magic mean anything. Sorcs excel at non-DPS spells, you just have to make the choice of what you want to be.

I really can't think of any other caster that can still dance the elems in the Reaver with the % that Aes can.

And I LOVE quicken on my cleric. But she makes liberal use of blade barrier.....

[Junts]

Correction: All sorcs are DPS because Turbine doesn't believe in having the schools of magic mean anything. Sorcs excel at non-DPS spells, you just have to make the choice of what you want to be.

I really can't think of any other caster that can still dance the elems in the Reaver with the % that Aes can.

And I LOVE quicken on my cleric. But she makes liberal use of blade barrier.....

My spellsinger does pretty well; dc 31 and a mindfog overlapping just before the ball = killer

[Pwesiela]

My spellsinger does pretty well; dc 31 and a mindfog overlapping just before the ball = killer

Come now, you can do better than that. :D

[Gaermain]

Hey Guys,
I appreciate all the input. I ended up taking quicken like many of you recommended, and i must admit...i do feel godly. My arms wave so fast now when i cast that i dont know wat to do with myself while i wait for the 1 second cooldown. I'm not sure if it makes me a better healer but it definately makes me feel cooler which i wasnt aware was important until now haha..

As for lvl 15, I agree with Maximize, blade barrier is just as addicting as my newest metamagic and i need to do as much dmg as possible.

Last thing i wanna bring up is how come so few clerics take the "improved # of turning" feat? When used with divine healing, i have 15 uses per rest (16 base cha + increase # turning III + hat with plus 4 cha) and it acts as a huge reservoir of out-of-battle slow healing.
Thanks again for helping me not gimp my cleric

The latest (pure) cleric I leveled has been the first one that has not had extra turns as a feat in my time here at DDO.

Coincidentally, she is also the first one of my clerics to have quicken.

I'll never go back to my old ways, lol. Lots of reasons, but it all comes down to personal preference and playstyle.

Tho, I do keep one level of DV and one level of xtra turns as enhancements - never know when you're going to hear people yelling for a D-Door with the arcane out of mana. Or, more importantly - squeak out that DV right before the arcane sits down to shrine and politely ask for a fresh haste =)

[Fenrisulven6]

Last thing i wanna bring up is how come so few clerics take the "improved # of turning" feat?

My 9th is giving out 7 DVs now, after dropping Imp Turning. I liked having the extra DVs, but not at the cost of more important feats.

And the principle of giving up a feat to augment the mage's mana while I'm rationing my own just didn't sit right.

Besides, saves me mana in the end, because most sorcs can't handle the aggro they would draw anyway ;)

[Fennario]

Implosion (Level: Clr 9) You create a destructive resonance field around you, causing nearby corporeal enemies to collapse in upon themselves, killing them instantly. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. Every few seconds, an enemy within your aura will be affected by this spell, but you are free to perform other actions while it is active.


Depending on how cool this spell ends up being, and what the radius of your aura is, even heal bot clerics may be standing closer to the fray than before. :)

If that's the case, then quicken may become even more helpful.

[sjwalker1973]

Unfortunately at the higher levels, wasting a feat on turning is bad. You won't be able to turn undead without them. Most clerics past 5th level or so use the turns for Devine Vitality. DV is a much more useful ability later on providing extra needed mana to other casters in a pinch situation. I speced my cleric out as a pure healer and no DVs. I had them early on and then respect for healing enhancements. On maximized empowered heal I can heal for 900+ on a critical with the various equipment and enhancement bonuses added in (Gloves from Reaver, etc). I'm trying to work on a set of Dragontouched for Lorrik's and healing amplification. I also have the shield.