Offering Plat for Raid Loot

[Gryphton]

OK, so, what is up with this trend. First off, you used to be able to just two man certain raids and pull that number of bound raid loot and i you were a competent player you could just short man it and get all the stuff that you needed. They changed it so that it is just random and that is understandable but now you have these people who just go in and before anything even drops saying "I'm offering X if anyone pulls ****" So, some non-competent player can go to a plat farmer spend real life money and go and try to buy out raid loot. I've seen this happen too many times to list. This practice is just screwed up in my opinion and against what I and many other believe DDO is all about.

If you try to sell or offer to buy named raid loot you will be added to my guilds collective squelch list and will not be invited on any raids we run. Sure, your loot is your loot but if you go selling it or taking offers on it, just know that there are allot of players that look harshly on these practices and it is not socially acceptable.

[Arianrhod]

Is this a "change the raid loot system" thread, or a "get rid of platfarmers" thread, or a "lrn2play" thread? Just curious... :)

[Rog]

you want the raid loot dont have time to do 20 and have a crazy amount of plat then go ahead and try to buy it from your team memebers. i dont care really i will tell you to the 100 sided and pry to the loot gods been know to make trades if it is enough plat. this trend started with the icy rams before the skelly chest.
lunarsong

[tazman]

i am right there with you man i do not agree with it at all. and if that happens i will say somthing right away.in my book this is wrong

[Gryphton]

not a change the system, not a drop the plat farmers, just a stop being shady mofo's and trying to outbid each other on named raid loot! And it started long before the icy existed

[Lorien_the_First_One]

As long as its in the open and at the start, I don't see a problem with it. It's my loot, if I want to see it, great.

It's no different than people running Ghosts who put up offers of plat/scales/etc for turning over the robe if it falls.

[faldordadink]

I have mixed feelings about this, I don't agree with someone saying they are selling or auctioning off raid loot, but if other members of the party offer to buy it I don't see a problem with that, I remember pulling a +3 dex tome out of the reaver on my wizzy and before I could even say it was up for roll I had 3 tells with offers, should I have said too bad its going up for roll? heck no, sell to the highest bidder, if it wasnt bound thats what would happen anyway. and just FYI I never ask if anyone wants to buy any raid loot I pull, hehe I even put the gloves from titan up for roll the other day.

just my 2cps

[Deathseeker]

Sorry, not getting it. If you didnt pull it, why does it matter to you what someone else does with their pull?

Why is allowing your guild to roll on it, but not others, any better than this?

I just don't understand why people get so uptight on what others do with their loot...

I almost always raid in a guild, and my guild always comes first. That's how we operate. If someone else puts their loot up for bid, so what?

Just not getting the frustration level here...

[Rog]

I have mixed feelings about this, I don't agree with someone saying they are selling or auctioning off raid loot, but if other members of the party offer to buy it I don't see a problem with that, I remember pulling a +3 dex tome out of the reaver on my wizzy and before I could even say it was up for roll I had 3 tells with offers, should I have said too bad its going up for roll? heck no, sell to the highest bidder, if it wasnt bound thats what would happen anyway. and just FYI I never ask if anyone wants to buy any raid loot I pull, hehe I even put the gloves from titan up for roll the other day.

just my 2cps

true i am the same i let peeps roll on it to be fair but if i get a tell and i have a crafitng habit i take the offer at 3 to 4 million a scale and a very low drop rate i need all the plat i can get.
mojomuscle

[faldordadink]

true i am the same i let peeps roll on it to be fair but if i get a tell and i have a crafitng habit i take the offer at 3 to 4 million a scale and a very low drop rate i need all the plat i can get.
mojomuscle


lol crafting habit nice can I use that?

[Gryphton]

maybe if it's advertised upfront, but the minute the chattering ring drops... "I'll give you 3 larges scales, well I'll give you 5, I've got 6 and 100K plat...." It's at the point that my guildies refuse to invite anyone else to their short maned raids. The Icy isn't raid loot eitherr, it's a bound quest item, you can run GoP a thousand times in a row offering to pay everyone else for it after you yourself are ransacked. This is about bound raid loot. In a raid were everyone is participating and has put forth effort to have the raid succeed only to have folks accepting offers on the loot they have worked just as hard as that person to get, just to have some newb offering up their hard earned plat farmer cash. Come on, thought this was just common etiquette.

So, am I in the minority. Should I not put those +3 tomes up for roll? Should I just be asking who is willing to give me the most scales instead of who wants to roll a d100?

[Hokiewa]

maybe if it's advertised upfront, but the minute the chattering ring drops... "I'll give you 3 larges scales, well I'll give you 5, I've got 6 and 100K plat...." It's at the point that my guildies refuse to invite anyone else to their short maned raids. The Icy isn't raid loot eitherr, it's a bound quest item, you can run GoP a thousand times in a row offering to pay everyone else for it after you yourself are ransacked. This is about bound raid loot. In a raid were everyone is participating and has put forth effort to have the raid succeed only to have folks accepting offers on the loot they have worked just as hard as that person to get, just to have some newb offering up their hard earned plat farmer cash. Come on, thought this was just common etiquette.

So, am I in the minority. Should I not put those +3 tomes up for roll? Should I just be asking who is willing to give me the most scales instead of who wants to roll a d100?


If you don't pull it, don't whine about it. My loot will be my decision. Granted I generally just give it away but don't judge others for trading. IT'S THEIR LOOT, not yours...

Pathetic

[Jefro]

I am always open to offers in pug groups since I am plat poor anyways, hell I try to bribe my way for particular item if I can. It does not happen very often, but it has happen. Your loot is your loot, up to you to decide, I am just hoping your listen to the darkside when I am in group

[Deathseeker]

maybe if it's advertised upfront, but the minute the chattering ring drops... "I'll give you 3 larges scales, well I'll give you 5, I've got 6 and 100K plat...." It's at the point that my guildies refuse to invite anyone else to their short maned raids. The Icy isn't raid loot eitherr, it's a bound quest item, you can run GoP a thousand times in a row offering to pay everyone else for it after you yourself are ransacked. This is about bound raid loot. In a raid were everyone is participating and has put forth effort to have the raid succeed only to have folks accepting offers on the loot they have worked just as hard as that person to get, just to have some newb offering up their hard earned plat farmer cash. Come on, thought this was just common etiquette.

So, am I in the minority. Should I not put those +3 tomes up for roll? Should I just be asking who is willing to give me the most scales instead of who wants to roll a d100?

He contributed as much to the raid as you, right? Assuming that's the case, you both had the identical chance to pull that chattering ring. So everything is even once those dice are rolled and that chest is popped.

If he happened to get it, and you didnt, then fair is fair...its his.

Ok, I think we agree to this point (you pull it its yours, he pulls it its his). Its after this that you disagree with his approach.

So how does it affect you any further if he chooses to keep it, or trade it to another person for 3 scales? It doesnt.

You are comparing that scenario to him putting it up for roll. But he never agreed to do that. Now, if upon entering the raid, everyone agreed if they pull something they will put it up for roll, then he's taking advantage. Why? Because he would get to roll on it if you pulled it, but you won't get to roll on it if he pulls it. I agree, that would be unfair.

But, if he isnt given the opportunity to agree or disagree up front to that approach, then you can't make that decision for him. Either you should get agreement up front, or get agreement that he wont roll on your loot and vice versa, or not be bothered by his choice.

Why should he have to pass up on 3 scales just to give away the item, if he doesn't choose to do so?

[faldordadink]

so Gryphton, what you are saying is you wouldnt accept an offer on raid loot even if its a crazy amount? I do agree that asking for plat/items for raid loot is not proper etiquette but accepting an offer just doesnt seem wrong to me.

[ThrasherGT]

Sorry, not getting it. If you didnt pull it, why does it matter to you what someone else does with their pull?

Why is allowing your guild to roll on it, but not others, any better than this?

I just don't understand why people get so uptight on what others do with their loot...

I almost always raid in a guild, and my guild always comes first. That's how we operate. If someone else puts their loot up for bid, so what?

Just not getting the frustration level here...

What He Said. It baffles Me when I hear this come up from time to time. Other people's loot is theirs to do with what they will, Period. As soon as someone thinks they should have a say in it, They Are Wrong, and should just keep their mouth shut. Blacklisting based on how loot is handled by others is ridiculous and juvenile..........

Just My 2cp

[Aranticus]

this is what i got from reading the OP's comment


my guild shortman raids

we sometimes have pugs in guild raids

pugs in the raids cannot offer to buy the raid loot

coz we want to roll on it but not want to enter a bidding war

seriously, if the bidders decide to go underground, will you be able to know?

[Akhad_Durn]

So, am I in the minority. Should I not put those +3 tomes up for roll? Should I just be asking who is willing to give me the most scales instead of who wants to roll a d100?

It all comes down to one thing. Your loot is yours, do whatever you want with it. If someone complains, so what? Stop worrying about things you didn't pull and you'll be alot happier.

I don't buy/sell my raid loot, theres no point, I don't want anybody else's stuff. If something else is up for roll, I may roll on it if I can use it. Anything I don't want goes up for roll.

[Gryphton]

No I never have Faldor, I've turned them down and had everyone who wanted it roll on it, but apparently I'm the only one. That's fine, I mean if I'm just mislead and missing out that's cool, maybe I should just start asking who has the most scales. Personally all my capped toons have all the raid loot they need, so this isn't me being pist that I didn't get to roll on something or anything like that. This was a hey stop shady unethical looting you noobies. But hey, if I'm in the wrong here, that's fine, thanks for showing me the light everyone ;)

[smatt]

Hey man, if somebody eants to sell raid loot... Cool.... if someone want's to buy it.... Cool..... Id be offended if a guildie or a friend did it too me..... But as for otehrs even in a raid group I'm in want to, don't care... It's their loot not mine, head on.....

[Mr._Dna]

I don't like it, personally. I don't care how the developers have changed the raid loot system. When you have bind-on-acquire loot that is often very class specific, then everyone who needs the item in the chest should have an equal opportunity to get it. Maybe that's just the communist in me. I believe in redistribution of wealth. Assuming it doesn't drop for either player, the guy with 1,000,000 plat shouldn't have a better chance to get a bound item than the guy with no plat, or larges, etc.

That being said, you can't really fault the players who take every advantage from the current system, IF the raid leader allows it, or hasn't been up-front about how the loot will be handled. However, if I avoid certain players because I know they are likely to conduct themselves this way, then that is equally my choice.

The classy thing to do if you get an item you can't use is to give it to, or put it up for roll to someone who can.

[LargeMarge]

That is some shaddy shaat...what happened to rolling for items?

If you don't want it...give someone else a chance who wants that raid item.

Selling that item just allows the rich to have a chance for an item...NOT KEWL

[Roman]

... They changed it so that it is just random and that is understandable but now you have these people who just go in and before anything even drops saying "I'm offering X if anyone pulls ****"

I don't see anything wrong with that, UNLESS you make it clear when forming the raid that any unwanted/uneeded bound loot goes up for roll. Your raid, your rules. Otherwise it's their loot and none of your business :)




If you try to sell or offer to buy named raid loot you will be added to my guilds collective squelch list and will not be invited on any raids we run.

If you make the raid, you get to make the rules, just let everyone know up front. Otherwise people will assume (and rightfully so) that they may do what they please with their own virtual property.



Sure, your loot is your loot but if you go selling it or taking offers on it, just know that there are allot of players that look harshly on these practices and it is not socially acceptable.

I don't really understand why bound named loot is held to a different standard than unbound named loot. Whats the difference if someone executes the trade at the chest, or on the AH?

[Mr._Dna]

I don't really understand why bound named loot is held to a different standard than unbound named loot. Whats the difference if someone executes the trade at the chest, or on the AH?

The way I see it is: it makes raid loot both harder and easier to get at the same time. What I mean is, there are people out there who could never afford to buy a WoP rapier off of the Auction House, but if they run the Titan, they at least have a chance to get a Chattering Ring. And it should be the same chance as anyone who runs that raid the same number of times they do. Regardless of how rich you are. YMMV of course.

[T-MacForMVP]

This thread coming from a person who wants to not accept another caster into his VoD and any melee who wants the "Caster! bracers."

Edit: This thread coming from a person who, when on his caster, does not accept another caster and any melee who wants the "Caster! Bracers." into his VoD

[dwelsh99]

Why would u care, you didnt pull it. No one else cares either how its distributed, or at least anyone I know.

What did you want to roll on something and couldnt cause it was up for sale, geez...it's their loot they can anything they want with it.

Rolling for items is an unwritten roll most follow just to be nice. No one has to be nice about thier own loot.

Now if you want to pay for my subscription, you can determine what I do with my loot.

[KiwiJoe]

Its theirs to do with as they wish.

Stop being a nosey neighbour.

[Gryphton]

This thread coming from a person who wants to not accept another caster into his VoD and any melee who wants the "Caster! bracers."

Edit: This thread coming from a person who, when on his caster, does not was to accept another caster and any melee who wants the "Caster! Bracers." into his VoD

How exactly is your edit supposed to read? My Caster has the "Caster! Bracers." already and the gloves for that matter. But when I run a VoD I always bring two casters, WF tank method or not, granted your post is off topic, but thanks for the input :D

ps. Is this coming from the guy who looted the googles and the dex/A/C bracers last time I was with him?;)

*If you want to start a discussion on the raid gear sets we can, but that is not the topic of this thread*

[Newtons_Apple]

I agree with people's points in general in this thread. It can be frustrating if people don't put things up for roll.

But I'm seeing an alarming trend, one which I have spoken to before concerning perception. If the chest delivers a person a piece of raid loot, it is HIS/HER decision what to do with it. Those who are chastising people for making money off of their loot are blacklisting, period.

I play as fair as I can, but I wonder if I play fair from a sense of fairness, or because I'm afraid to be labeled as someone who should be avoided.

Sunday I ran a reaver on my Barb. I was the only Barb in group and the boots dropped for a ranger. I made the comment "Hey you're going to keep those boots aren't you." He immediately passed them to me unselfishly. I was shocked. Here right in front of me was an item I had been striving for for a while. The fighter in the group said "Hey are those boots up for roll?" and immediately put a roll up before anything was even said. His roll was high, mine and others were lower (mine was lowest BTW). I passed the boots on to the fighter.

It sucks, and to this moment I still wish I had been selfish. But that really isn't the point.

The point is it was the Ranger's decision to pass the boots. And then it was my decision to keep them. I don't enjoy playing to the perceptions of others, but I feel if you don't want to be ostracized, you'd better keep that sort of thing in mind.

[Deathseeker]

Just curious...if you buy into this "everyone should let everyone roll on it" mentality, then does that mean you wont let people swap raid loot for raid loot in the chest? If I pull madstone boots, and Jane pulls the head of good fortune, can we swap in the chest? If so, how is that any better than me selling it to Bob for a large scale than selling it to Jane for the head (keep your minds out of the gutter)?

This just gets silly...so much easier to not worry about what others do with their loot.

[slord]

So, by this logic, if you were running the Dragon raid on an elf character along with 11 warforged characters, and the docent popped for you, you would take it without any consideration of the 11 warforged behind you begging for it?

[FluffyCalico]

So, by this logic, if you were running the Dragon raid on an elf character along with 11 warforged characters, and the docent popped for you, you would take it without any consideration of the 11 warforged behind you begging for it?

Normally I put up loot for roll without even thinking about it. But I really hate the looks of WF and the ebberon setting, so in your example I think I would have to loot it as long as I was not on one of my guilded mains :eek:

[Uska]

I am very mixed about this I wont offer anything up for plat I get in chest but if someone made an insane offer well I am very plat poor and if the offer is very good I will likely take it and if you want to add me to a list then we proably dont want to play together anyways I dont like people who want to lord it over me and tell me how to play and what to do with my loot.

[Sobriquet]

Like you said, it's my loot. If I can make a couple of bucks on it, I will.

Let me guess, your guild is sooooo uber that to be blacklisted means I should just cancel my subscription. Oh wait, I don't play on Sarlona

[TechNoFear]

now you have these people who just go in and before anything even drops saying "I'm offering X if anyone pulls ****"

From this I see the other player was up-front with;

what item they want.
what they are willing to pay.
you are under NO obligation to accept this offer.

If the item they want drops for you, you can take it, sell it or put it up for a roll.

The only time this would concern you is if you ALSO wanted the item, because this reduces the chances that you will get a chance to roll on the item.


So, some non-competent player can go to a plat farmer spend real life money and go and try to buy out raid loot.

Needed some emotional hyperbole to reinforce your scant argument?

You state as fact that anyone who wanted a raid item (that you also want);

is less competent than you
and buys off plat farmers.

Got much ego?


I've seen this happen too many times to list.

Please post one verified instance, where you have proof, just one.

Didn't think so....


If you try to sell or offer to buy named raid loot you will be added to my guilds collective squelch list and will not be invited on any raids we run.

Please PM me your guild name so I can be sure not to join any raids lead by your guild.

I do not want to run with players like you or your guild (if this is a general rule as you claim).

EDIT:
I have never sold a raid item.
I have given away raid items, including the first two I pulled on any toon.
I do not have enough plat to offer for anything desirable either.

[bandyman1]

Honestly, I don't see the problem everyone has with Gryphton :confused:.

After all; He's only stating his opinion on how such matters should be handled.

Which is the exact same thing that the rest of you are doing.


No one can force their opinion on what someone does with their raid loot on anyone.


Just like no one can force anyone to allow them tag along on future raids with him/her, and/or his/her friends and guildies.


Both are a matter of personal choice, and both parties have every right to make their own decisions in either case.

[T-MacForMVP]

How exactly is your edit supposed to read? My Caster has the "Caster! Bracers." already and the gloves for that matter. But when I run a VoD I always bring two casters, WF tank method or not, granted your post is off topic, but thanks for the input :D

ps. Is this coming from the guy who looted the googles and the dex/A/C bracers last time I was with him?;)

*If you want to start a discussion on the raid gear sets we can, but that is not the topic of this thread*

How is it off topic, when your not adding people to your group because they are after the raid gear that you are trying for, that's about the same as buying/trading for it...

and just recently you were trying to talk someone out of their supreme shard that they pulled on their first shroud, and said "oh you want be able to use that for at least 40 runs!" ... in which trying to get him to put it up for roll, so you would have a chance for it...

and as for as it being off topic, it actually is right along the topic, as for i am saying these two examples are along the same lines as buying/trading... not accepting anyone on a VoD who are after what you are. (in which when me and Zereox are in your VoD group, you definitely only had one caster.) and trying to give inaccurate information for someone to put a shard up for roll. its along the same lines as buying/trading for loot, so i don't see why you are complaining...

my edit was for my post to be easier to read.

P.S. yes i did loot the goggles and the bracers at the same time, i was in the wrong, and i apologized to everyone involved, was really late, i was really tired, there was A LOT of confusion. I Should have gave the goggles up to Punkette, but through the confusion of the dice rolls and everything else that was going on, i didn't, I'm Sorry and I Apologized, and there is nothing else i can do about that situation.

(In which i did tell punkette whenever we run VoD together and i get the goggles on any of my characters, even if my character can use it or not, i will give it to punkette (or any of his characters who can use it.) no questions asked.)

[UnderwearModel]

I play the game for the chance to pull loot. I will not buy it. If I pull something that I do not need, I say it is up for roll.

If others NEED to do the plat purchasing, then their life is sad. That type of player will not be playing long anyway. They need instant gratification, and once achieved they will move on quickly to the next Pretty Kitty game.

I can guarantee you that the last thing that I need is more plat.

For me, 80% of the fun is seeing what I can loot. 5% seeing what others can loot. (so I can be jealous of course). 15% doing the quest. -100% if there is lag.

I am even going to get suckered into the upcoming loot weekend. again.

I thought Drama was queen on Khyber or is that Thelanis? ;>)

[FluffyCalico]

If others NEED to do the plat purchasing, then their life is sad. That type of player will not be playing long anyway. They need instant gratification, and once achieved they will move on quickly to the next Pretty Kitty game.

;>)

Unfortunately this is backwards. Those who are just here for all the rare loot weather they earn it or not will be on whatever MMO forever because all MMOs create the loot timesink at the end to retain these people. It's those who don't need every piece of loot that will take off for 6-12 months waiting for content and maybe find something else during that time and never come back.

[Gryphton]

T-Mac - coming from the only person who's every toon I have ever squelched you are amusing. Sure I've probably done a run or two without 2 casters, but only on normal with an exact core group of mostly all guildies. Since when is it wrong to help your guildies get the loot that they are after? Even the rare times when there may have been only one caster, have you ever even heard me not let the people present roll on what they wanted to, ever? I do believe that the set items should be given to that class first, Need Before Greed. Even so, it's not the same thing, if you only need one of a certain class for a run, why bring more and waste the spots? If I would run it with the same group of guildies again I would only be bringing one caster as I would usually have half my mana left with said group, without I like one Wiz and one Sorc. Even if so the difference is that bringing a good group makeup where everyone contributes to the end goal and everyone has an equal chance at the raid loot be it by them pulling it or able to roll on it compared to bringing un-needed classes and having the person with the most plat being able to just buy it. I feel that it gives everyone present an average playing field.

As far as you just looting both the googles and the bracers, them promptly leaving group, I had to sit there and agree that it was shady to the other non-guildies, who said that they said what happened in guild chat and that their guild member said "oh, soulless is like that, that is why we don't run raids with them" Guess that doesn't matter since you guys left the guild shortly after anyways.

I never said anything about him needing to wait 40 runs to craft but if you would like to continue to make lies and argue as you always do, feel free. I told "my friend" who I have been teaching how to play the game on his first run that it was going to be a minute before he would have the larges together to make a tier 3 GS item. I'm sorry that you feel the need to jump in and argue about how uber you are that you can make a tier 3 in 2 weeks of them opening the shroud. BTW, it's two weeks later, Ob and I are still running together everyday, and well, guess what... he still doesn't have 20 + larges... go figure.... Running 1 toon through shroud, I'm sure he will really not pull any more sup shards before he has the larges together. How many times have you seen people giving up shards because they know they won't need them for awhile to folks who can use them right away? I thought this was another common practice as it is what I do and what I see most other people do.

But anyways thanks for the flaming Lilliam you are always good for a laugh.

[Deathseeker]

So, by this logic, if you were running the Dragon raid on an elf character along with 11 warforged characters, and the docent popped for you, you would take it without any consideration of the 11 warforged behind you begging for it?

You are mistaking what we think one should be able to do, with what one should do. Two very different things.

I disagree with players being "forced" not to sell their loot, or put it up for roll, or give it away, or whatever. Their game, their loot, their choice.

That does not mean I recommend they do it in all cases, or a majority of cases or at all.

What I recommend a player consider to operate under AS HIS CHOICE:
- Do I need it? If so, I keep it.
- If not, does a guildy or buddy need it? If so I give it to them.
- If not, did anyone offer an insane trade for it? If so, I'd consider it if its a great opportunity.
- If none of the above, I'd put it up for roll.

What I recommend be forced on people (via pressure, blacklisting threat, etc):
- Nothing...its your loot, your choice, act as you see fit and responsible.

That's the difference. The elf keeping the docent scenario is frankly just silly and irrelevant. I dont believe that happens as a matter of practice on a consistent basis, and nobody would suggest they keep it out of spite. Now, if someone offered them 2 large scales for it? Id say trade it. Otherwise, put it up for roll...

If someone told me, before I made that choice, that I had to put it up for roll or be threatened with a blacklist? I'd probably send a tell to someone else who needs it that they can have it, and in then in party chat tell the person forcing it on me that im keeping it just to tweak them...

One last thought...Gryphton, I think this is a good discussion. We disagree, but its actually a good topic to discuss, so nothing personal. It's been discussed a zillion times before on the forums, but always room to re-hash this one.

[Caden_the_Dictator]

Hey Vamp. You know me as Caden Ben Sayid Ecko Mase Hurly Soyer Misterecko Papoose and Littlecaden. I led the raid during which you informed your friend it would be 40 shroud completions before a supreme shard would be of any use for him. Just here to remind you that without friends helping him, or him buying larges from the auction house, it could take as little as 6 shroud completions to make use of a supreme shard. Not 40.
With HELP from a friend like you, he could have used that shard shortly, or be misled into thinking it would be much wiser to give it to you, his mentor lol.

I also could go on and on about your behavior when people left the guild you were in before. For a while. Suffice to say, now that they won't help you get raid loot, you bash your former friends in the forums.

I'd like to remind you that your blood pressure is up over imaginary magic. Maybe a little break from the game would help you out, get things in perspective. I used to think you were a cool dude until i read this post. Bean helped you for years, or i should say, you helped each other for years. Are you going to bash him for as long as he helped you?

Anyhow, since you are rampantly squelching your former friends, don't be shy about squelching me, or avoiding my lfm's for shroud, hound, or any raid i am leading. Because the rule in my raids is : it's your loot, do as you will with it.

Not : you can whine like the hound herself when you don't get what you want. I know your style and i'll call you out on it : you gear raids towards your getting the loot you want. I know you do it. And you have begged me in tells to just pass raid loot ftr. Funny, i put it up for roll, or give to people who have helped me before. It's my loot, until i choose to roll it off, give it off, or sell it off.

So keep mentoring "friends", i commend you for that, helping new players. But i am sure everyone in my shroud that day thought you were outright lying to your friend to get the supreme shard you needed. The word i used to describe it was "greasy". Keep bashing people on the forums dude, and surely you'll get all the imaginary magic someday lol. Greasy Dude. Greasy.

[Caden_the_Dictator]

Does this ring a bell Vamp? You pull loot. You put loot up for roll. I win the roll fair and square. You outright refused to assign it to me until i promise to run my cleric ecko on a hound raid for you. Do you remember that? Tell me you don't remember so that your streak of idiocy can reach new heights. You know you have pulled stranger, greasier moves than someone wanting to trade for raid loot.

You extorted me into playing with you so i could receive the loot which i won fair and square. So seriously Vamp, go whine about fairness somewhere else on the forums. you are greasy. period.

Again : i run my own raids 95% of the time, so avoid my lfm's on your greasy alts. I don't know all your alts yet, but i am working on it.

Mine are Caden Ben Sayid Ecko Mase Soyer Hurly Misterecko Papoose and Littlecaden. I always thought you were a piece of work, yet kept it to myself until reading your ideology of fairness.

So just so everyone is clear on this : he lives in a glass house and definitely should have kept his stones to himself. It is silly that he pretends others are greasy but he is not. He is greasy, i am greasy. To a certain degree, we all have the capacity to be greasy. Difference between me and him is that i can admit i have been greasy in the past, whereas he pretends to have never been greasy. That is what actually makes him much much greasier than most people. whining about unfair loot practices, yet perpetrating said unfair loot practices. Hypocrisy incarnate : Gryphton.

[Gryphton]

Once again I never said 40 runs, but go ahead and just quote your best bud. Bean and I were never friends, we were in the same guild and did not run together often, to be honest I only ran with him for maybe 2 months here and there. We just brushed each other wrong and the main reason I left the guild as well. I have never had a problem with you and told you that I was just F'in with you about the ring. So don't pretend like I was being serious, if I was maybe in the months since then I would have even asked you to run it with me even once? Just once have I even asked you to help me go get it? I would think someone who was being serious, even after telling you they were just joking around with you would have maybe asked you to run it with them a couple times in the last 2 months, but nope never, go ahead and tell me I am a liar.

It's cool that you want to come in here and stand up for your best friend, I gotchya on that and that's cool, I still have no real issue with you. If you look he's the one that jumped in here and started that BS. Crazy how I knew exactly who it was. Sure some people just rub each other the wrong way be it in a game or in life instances.

Also I never told Ob to just give me the shard, he was going to put it up for roll, even after that argument he still asked who wanted to roll on it. I was not the only person who could have used it at the time as we all are well aware.

Don't worry about me trying to join your groups as I really can't stand your best buddy, but hey I still think you are alright, but think what you want.

This post was about blatantly selling raid loot. Not putting it up for roll and asking for offers being it items or plat. I still feel that the design of the game was to allow everyone an equal chance in obtaining said items. I don't care if people keep their loot or hell if they negotiate via PM even isn't that horrible. My qualm is when you are standing there with a group and folks start making offers or sit there being like yay I just pulled this how much is it worth to you all. Making the rest of the people in the group feel cheated. I don't really hold it against folks who accept a private offer for an item, I don't but I can understand this If my guildies and I would rather not run with those folks that is our right to do so. Just as there is no way to force someone else to give up their loot. I do believe it is in bad taste to start asking for offers on raid loot and I feel that most players agree with me on my main point, I've been in groups where you've offered larges for the ring of thelis, and I still didn't really care. My major problem is when folks pop a chest and have a piece of raid loot sitting there and ask the group for offers.

I agree mostly with Death on how I handle my raid loot and I believe most people handle theirs.
1. I keep it
2. I give it to a buddy or a guildie if I know they are really looking for that item
3. I put it up for roll, if it's a set item, such as the hound cleric set or such I will pass it to those classes first then to whoever else wants it

[adamkatt]

I always try to force my raid loot on others with a plat incentive!

[Tin_Dragon]

I have offered plat for raid loot, I have NEVER and will never buy Plat for real $$.


I have a lot of plat laying around now and again, usually becuase I have been raiding the sh!t out of something, and most will get you a decent amount, yet I cant seem to get item X. Heck I pulled the Torq on my sorc in DQ, and the Brambles dropped too, I offered the goy 10K plat for em, he turned it down, since he very quickly had stated for roll, I said ok, rolled, got em anyway, kept the plat, his loss.

Again, with the new(er) system of Raid loot, its become, yours is yours, mine is mine, do with as you please. I have bought/sold raid loot. I raid as much as i can with 7 toons now. That is a lot of raiding, half of them dont have 1/4 what I want. I (like many others) dont have the time to run 20/40 raids on 4-5 diff raids on 7 toons to get all I would like to have (notice I didnt say NEED!) so, when i see the chance, I offer to buy it, it may make some poor guy/gals day to pull a not so useful item, and not be expected to let it go for free roll. I have been outbid on raid loot, I dont cry, I go on.

Buying/Selling raid loot, does not make you a poor player, unless your a plat farmer, it generally means that I am tired of this raid, willing to part with a chunk of plat to forgo running this raid X many more times, so I can work on things like, favor, new toons, other toons, loot runs (to buy more raid loot :rolleyes:) and so on.

If you dont like/agree with it, fine, but dont say the rest of us are poor players for it.

[transtemporal]

I don't really understand why bound named loot is held to a different standard than unbound named loot. Whats the difference if someone executes the trade at the chest, or on the AH?

I don't mind trades but some people will trade their item, then expect to roll on someone elses. Thats not cool in my book.

[Mudcnd]

I don't like it, personally. I don't care how the developers have changed the raid loot system. When you have bind-on-acquire loot that is often very class specific, then everyone who needs the item in the chest should have an equal opportunity to get it. Maybe that's just the communist in me. I believe in redistribution of wealth. Assuming it doesn't drop for either player, the guy with 1,000,000 plat shouldn't have a better chance to get a bound item than the guy with no plat, or larges, etc.

That being said, you can't really fault the players who take every advantage from the current system, IF the raid leader allows it, or hasn't been up-front about how the loot will be handled. However, if I avoid certain players because I know they are likely to conduct themselves this way, then that is equally my choice.

The classy thing to do if you get an item you can't use is to give it to, or put it up for roll to someone who can.


Heh class specific , hmmm what about the WF battle wiz when he wants to roll on the sword of shadows, everone cry's bloody murder. There is always someone who thinks they know what raid loot your toon needs yet he has no idea of your build.

I believe in redistribution of wealth maybe the guy that pulled the raid loot could really use that plat, rather than just giving it to some guy that has piles and piles of plat , and only is looking for a couple of pieces of raid loot.

[Draccus]

Sure, your loot is your loot but if you go selling it or taking offers on it, just know that there are allot of players that look harshly on these practices and it is not socially acceptable.

So which is it? Apparently it's NOT my loot if you're going to "look harshly" on one of the many options I have to do with my loot.

[Dracolich]

Apairently its only your loot if you do what he thinks is right :). If you dont its not your loot and you have to right to do with your loot as you wish. I guess technically its not your loot till you pull it out of the chest, although it does have your name on it so we go back to it being his loot and him being able to do what he wants with it. **** we have a vicious cycle here.

[Asketes]

Wow that's a bit harsh.

There are plenty of people out there who don't use plat farmers, have money to spend and have run Reavers Fate, for example, 15 times and still can't get what they need. So what if they are over their 20 mark even, maybe they need something else from there that they haven't been able to get yet.

There is nothing wrong with announcing (before) raid loot drops that you will be willing to give "X" item or plat for it.

And no, i don't have the money to do it, so i've never done it before. just what i believe

[Frodo_Lives]

It's nothing to run a raid 15 or 20 times and not get the item you want. I just got the Boots from the Reaver on my fighter, and he ran it 37 times to do that. If the boots didn't come up with my name on it, it very easily could have been another 20 before I saw them.

How many Titans have people run and not gotten the ring? or the belt?

Your loot is your loot, if you want to keep it or sell it or put it up for a roll it's your choice.

It always makes me shake my head at the double standard some people have about what they should be able to do with their raid loot with no hard feelings from other members of the raid, but ***** and moan and threaten blacklisting to those that do something that they don't think is right with the raid loot that came up with their name on it.

[sjwalker1973]

OK, so, what is up with this trend. First off, you used to be able to just two man certain raids and pull that number of bound raid loot and i you were a competent player you could just short man it and get all the stuff that you needed. They changed it so that it is just random and that is understandable but now you have these people who just go in and before anything even drops saying "I'm offering X if anyone pulls ****" So, some non-competent player can go to a plat farmer spend real life money and go and try to buy out raid loot. I've seen this happen too many times to list. This practice is just screwed up in my opinion and against what I and many other believe DDO is all about.

If you try to sell or offer to buy named raid loot you will be added to my guilds collective squelch list and will not be invited on any raids we run. Sure, your loot is your loot but if you go selling it or taking offers on it, just know that there are allot of players that look harshly on these practices and it is not socially acceptable.

If they explained to you it wasn't an open loot system and you got what you got, then why did you join the group? It's their loot, they can do with it as they please in that case. Unless otherwise stated, the player is FREE to do with their looted items as they see fit. Most (including me) make it available if they don't require it. They'd rather see loot go to good use and not get wasted. But if it's a mostly one guild raid, typically it stays within the guild members present and the straglers are offered it last when all other guild members are offered.

[Xithos]

"Your loot is your loot." Simple and effective. If you want special stipulations or other rules regarding raid loot I would suggest finding similar likeminded individuals (guildees?) and running exclusively with them.

[sjwalker1973]

It's nothing to run a raid 15 or 20 times and not get the item you want. I just got the Boots from the Reaver on my fighter, and he ran it 37 times to do that. If the boots didn't come up with my name on it, it very easily could have been another 20 before I saw them.

- Ran over 60 Reavers on my main and never saw a +3 tome in the chest. Go figure.

How many Titans have people run and not gotten the ring? or the belt?

- Lots Never once on my Barb have I seen the belt drop.

Your loot is your loot, if you want to keep it or sell it or put it up for a roll it's your choice.

- EXACTLY. Unless OTHERWISE STATED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE RAID BY THE ORGANIZER, your loot is your loot. Do with it as you please.

It always makes me shake my head at the double standard some people have about what they should be able to do with their raid loot with no hard feelings from other members of the raid, but ***** and moan and threaten blacklisting to those that do something that they don't think is right with the raid loot that came up with their name on it.

I can't tell you how many times I saw something drop in a raid and it was picked up by others before it was offered to me. It's just the nature of the game. I don't complain, I just keep running the quests to get what I need and move on.

[Asketes]

It's a good thing i remember it's a game. So what if someone offers there loot to someone else. I've ran reaver, what like 12 times so far (eh only been playing for 3 months). I've seen ring of thelis drop so many times (lol i think it's hound, one or the other) i just put it up for roll.

I declare before i put up for roll.

- Highest to 100 wins, if you roll a 1 you automatically win (unless two people roll 1, then re-roll)
- I don't care if you roll for someone else, doesn't bother me
- If you cannot use this item I will NOT count your roll (madstone boots and cleric rolls for example)

That is my philosophy and beliefs if someone blacklists me or w/e you call it, im happy to not run with them again. This is a game, get over yourself.

Do i roll for others, nope, don't need to. But I have no problems with other people doing it? It all comes around. I've lost so many rolls it gets ********. But the other day I beat my buddy out of a Breastplate of Destruction. So hey, I could care less. Nobody claimed the system was infallible, but what system is.

[Sweyn]

I dont normally agree on selling raid loot. But i can see one exception to this. Say my sorc is in a Reaver run and pulls a +3 cha tome. Right now my sorc has 38 cha. (i have already used a +2 tome) so right now i wouldnt benefit from +1 cha. But because it would be odd and the modifier would be the same, it could maybe be put to better use by someone else... but i can still benifit from it. It would give me a head start for mod 9. So i could benifit from it. If someone wants to sell loot that they can benifet from but they prefer money... then that would be fine with me. But if there was a WF wizzy with 6 cha and he pulled a +3 cha tome, i dont think it would be right for him to sell it. same as my sorc pulling a +3 dex tome, i would put it up for roll and NOT sell it...
Just my 2cp

[dopey69]

No I never have Faldor, I've turned them down and had everyone who wanted it roll on it, but apparently I'm the only one. That's fine, I mean if I'm just mislead and missing out that's cool, maybe I should just start asking who has the most scales. Personally all my capped toons have all the raid loot they need, so this isn't me being pist that I didn't get to roll on something or anything like that. This was a hey stop shady unethical looting you noobies. But hey, if I'm in the wrong here, that's fine, thanks for showing me the light everyone ;)

sry bud just do not see an ethical issue here . so i asume it is you or someone in your guild who has there panties in a knot. i would say mmm someone who is on the poor side. i have enough plat to buy ne thing i need and i am no plat farmer. I put thousands of hours into this game is all. i give lots away if i do not need it you can roll for it .but trust me if someone offers me something i needed for it i would trade it in a heart beat and not loose ne sleep over being band from your guild runs. if i pull it it is mine get over it. i have given away dozens of uber item's and still do , including plat . so if i was in your guild raid and did what you find so revolting , that you banned me from your guild raids, you would ban a player who has helped dozens of noobs, pugs, and guildies with more uber stuff and platt than you have ever even pulled .I am the bad guy, I do not think so. a chant for your guild ' i did not pull it is not mine " ok try saying that to your self over and over while you run the quest ,then you may be able to handle it when your world comes crashing down on you . and if ya could put your guilds name in teh thread so i can squelch them all i would be happy

[Frodo_Lives]

I can't tell you how many times I saw something drop in a raid and it was picked up by others before it was offered to me. It's just the nature of the game. I don't complain, I just keep running the quests to get what I need and move on.

You're right it is just the nature of the game. There is abslotutely no reason to complain if someone does something with their raid loot. You (generic you) might not do that yourself, you might not think it's right, but it's not your loot.

I don't complain about someone selling their raid loot, or passing it off without a roll, or rolling on something that is of typically marginal value to that class. But I have seen a double standard where people think they can do whatever they please with the loot they pull but complain about others when something that they want isn't offered around.

The only thing that generally annoys me is when people roll on loot so that they can pass it to someone else. One person should equal one chance if it's up for an open roll, but that's just me.

[sjwalker1973]

You're right it is just the nature of the game. There is abslotutely no reason to complain if someone does something with their raid loot. You (generic you) might not do that yourself, you might not think it's right, but it's not your loot.

I don't complain about someone selling their raid loot, or passing it off without a roll, or rolling on something that is of typically marginal value to that class. But I have seen a double standard where people think they can do whatever they please with the loot they pull but complain about others when something that they want isn't offered around.

The only thing that generally annoys me is when people roll on loot so that they can pass it to someone else. One person should equal one chance if it's up for an open roll, but that's just me.

It's up to the person looting the item unless otherwise stated by the raid organizer. I don't have a problem with anyone doing what they want with their loot. Most magnanamous players tend to offer it to other raid members, but it's not required or expected (at least by me). I'll ask, but if they say no, then move on and drop it. Try again. That's why they put the raid repeating mechanism in the game.

[ChadMan]

OK, so, what is up with this trend. First off, you used to be able to just two man certain raids and pull that number of bound raid loot and i you were a competent player you could just short man it and get all the stuff that you needed. They changed it so that it is just random and that is understandable but now you have these people who just go in and before anything even drops saying "I'm offering X if anyone pulls ****" So, some non-competent player can go to a plat farmer spend real life money and go and try to buy out raid loot. I've seen this happen too many times to list. This practice is just screwed up in my opinion and against what I and many other believe DDO is all about.

If you try to sell or offer to buy named raid loot you will be added to my guilds collective squelch list and will not be invited on any raids we run. Sure, your loot is your loot but if you go selling it or taking offers on it, just know that there are allot of players that look harshly on these practices and it is not socially acceptable.


I disagree with to because i find it harder for the people who are not rich or even the noobs whos first toon relly needs an item and people keep buying it from them makeing their game experince a lot harder.

[Asketes]

It's not making their game experience harder. it's merely making the game experience exactly what it is, online intereaction. If you want us to be drones then fine, we can be sheep.

There will always be someone with money to buy something that another person can't. Back in the old loot system, the leader picked who got the loot. Tell me how that's fair?

Just cuz some people can buy something doesn't make it a bad experience, it makes it exactly what it is, an experience.

No toon really needs an item, they were fine before and they'll live afterwords.


I disagree with to because i find it harder for the people who are not rich or even the noobs whos first toon relly needs an item and people keep buying it from them makeing their game experince a lot harder.

[Mindspat]

While I agree it's uncool to expect someone to pay you for Raid loot it's appreciated when someone offers something from their stockpile after giving them a rarely dropped item.

[T-MacForMVP]

dude I'm not talking "****", im just saying why your complaining about other people buying and trading raid loot, when you the two examples I gave you, and even the one that caden had brought up. I'm saying that what you did is just as bad as buying/trading so why the thread...

and for the record you did say "oh you wont be able to use that supreme shard for at least 40 runs.." but yet again your denying it. because when i heard you say that I stepped in and said hey man you can craft and use that shard within 6 runs minimum if everything works out and your lucky enough to pull exactly the right amount the large ingredients you need. then i also told him hey man, at least get yourself 2 supreme shards before you start putting them up for roll, just to make sure you have yourself covered.. granted he may not craft his item with in 6 runs, but its not going to be as long as 40 runs. in which that was the point i was trying to tell him.

and i NEVER said i was uber. as i replied to your comment about him not being able to use the shard in a reasonable amount of time, I stated within 2-3 weeks within the shroud being open i had crafted a 3rd tier item, so i was telling him it is possible to do it a lot sooner than 40 runs. and with a true friend like you, he would be able to craft a lot sooner than 40...

And as for the fact of us grouping together, i was in soulless for about 5-7 months in which 2 months of that was a break i was on, we only recently started have "brushes" as in like a month in halfish ago, either way im saying we grouped together no problems for at least 3 months, but started having problems just recently, since we have different views on raid loot. as in you refer to raid items as the "cleric Necklace", the "Caster Bracers", the "caster Gloves", and the "cleric/Tank Shields" and other little comments that you have made around me or to me...

In which i say how is it a cleric necklace when MY ranger with EMPOWERED HEALING not be able to use Wisdom 6, Efficient Empower Healing II, AND Wizardry VI. when all 3 things extremely help me and my already low Spell point pool, and let me be able to save mana and cast more Healing spells.

Then "Caster Gloves" that my cleric would love, like it ONLY helps the caster because its part of a set (in which sup glac VIII SHOULD drop frequently next mod). but anyway how can my Cleric who HAS maximize AND Extend, especially since i almost always leave them on, and can save me up to 4sp/cast...

and why should my character not be allowed to roll for these items, was my character there in the raid? did my character help toward the completion? did i spend the time/effort/resources to help the raid be completed? am i not entitled to have a chance for the raid loot i am after, in which is the main reason for my character to be in a certain raid? why should i HAVE to wait until either 'I' pull it OR have to wait for my 20th? 40th? 60th run? as far as i see it there is only ONE raid item that is class specific and it just so happens to be called "The BARD'S Cloak"

and as far as i see it man, i had NO PROBLEMS helping people get the icy raiment or anything else. the one problem i did have (although i still did help.) is that people weren't up for doing it in a way that was more planned out, as for example everyone would want to run the person they wanted the icy raiment on. instead of doing more, and faster runs, by taking turns, running their caster/clerics and then do like 5-10 runs, switch the icy raiment pullers do 5-10 more, switch icy raiment pullers (and those who ransacked characters to another caster type to try to help icy pullers, every gets their turn. and then rinse and repeat the following week... (sub runs of course are different, but using GoP as the example.) but instead of doing it this way, people had to be on their icy raiment pullers and we would go in there with 3-5 melee's and it would take 3 times as long per quest. in which resulted in less runs and less chances for everyone to get it..and quirkie said he left guild because he would say comment/jokes and wouldn't get a response and felt ignored (and i also think he was upset because he was one of two people who aren't officers in the guild..) , and i told him this wasn't the case and that i was sorry that he felt that way. and as far as ingredients go man i have no clue what you are talking about, i never borrowed ingredients from him, in fact i GAVE HIM ingredients to craft green steel items, and a small or medium ingredient here and there.

and as far as you leaving the guild because of me is ridiculous to say as for i left the guild 2-3 weeks before you even did it, i did get a few stragglers out of the guild a little later than my first few characters, but you left the guild well after i did, and why would you leave the guild because of me when i had already left the guild and was no longer in it.

and with all the comments you've replied with, my post is more off topic now than it was when i first posted.

anyway man, my conclusion and only point i wanted to say is i dont see why this thread is coming from a person who will eliminate competition in his raids so whatever that drops that your after, will automatically go to you, and also to give a "friend" who you are "mentoring" FALSE! information so he will put it a shard up for roll and so that you have a chance to roll on it and claim it, is just not right, and so i dont see why you ARE COMPLAINING when the things that you have done/said around me are along the same lines, if not worse than buying/trading/selling raid loot...

P.S everyone i am sorry for this long post