Clerics: They do more than heal

[bigj1608]

These words were spoken recently and moved me to create this post:

Player1(Fighter): Cleric, you just sit back and heal us. I don't want you taking aggro of anything.

To this I say: A Cleric that does nothing but heal is like a Rogue that goes afk, eating his pizza until the group reaches a trap, proceeds to disable it, then goes back to his pizza eating while watching tv.

A solid Cleric can solo very effectively. In a group, this same Cleric can prevent the other five members from taking damage via Greater Command/Cometfall, etc..

People need to be enlightened.

I hate the terms: Healbot and Trapmonkey(Though not the right Forum for this one).

Thoughts?

[Aranticus]

These words were spoken recently and moved me to create this post:

Player1(Fighter): Cleric, you just sit back and heal us. I don't want you taking aggro of anything.

To this I say: A Cleric that does nothing but heal is like a Rogue that goes afk, eating his pizza until the group reaches a trap, proceeds to disable it, then goes back to his pizza eating while watching tv.

A solid Cleric can solo very effectively. In a group, this same Cleric can prevent the other five members from taking damage via Greater Command/Cometfall, etc..

People need to be enlightened.

I hate the terms: Healbot and Trapmonkey(Though not the right Forum for this one).

Thoughts?

they will be enlightened once they die and you solo the rest of the quest

[bigj1608]

they Will Be Enlightened Once They Die And You Solo The Rest Of The Quest

Qft :)

But, in the mean time, they'll be flaming you for letting them die o.O

[Aranticus]

Qft :)

But, in the mean time, they'll be flaming you for letting them die o.O

thats true but any decent player will know who is exactly the noob ;)

[Lorichie]

Qft :)

But, in the mean time, they'll be flaming you for letting them die o.O

Thats ok lol, /squelch douses all flames...

R

[bigj1608]

Thats ok lol, /squelch douses all flames...

R

You should make a few more characters with beginning with "Loric" :D

[Jesen]

To this I say: A Cleric that does nothing but heal is like a Rogue that goes afk, eating his pizza until the group reaches a trap, proceeds to disable it, then goes back to his pizza eating while watching tv.

That's a good rogue! Just don't blow the traps or your out of the team.

More seriously though, if you do not like someone hassling you while you play your cleric. Its simple, heal everyone BUT that person. Watch their attitude change. They can either start saying you suck and you can hand them some Cure Serious pots. Or they will suck it up and let you play how you play, if your kind enough you might even throw a heal their way.

[Tummada]

If it was my cleric i would have made it my mission to have the highest kill count in the party. I would drop maximized/empowered blade barriers at every big fight and grab as much of the aggro i could. Pretty much sending a message that this is my character and I play him how I choose. If you don't like it and your the one with the star you can always boot me from the group and find another spineless cleric. The only time i allow another player to dictate my playing style is if I don't know the quest very well or they give me scrolls and pots and ask me to simply heal.

tum

[Lorichie]

You should make a few more characters with beginning with "Loric" :D

Oh no, you cant trick me into doing it any more. Nope i'm done and thats final. Cant make me, nope, not gonna happen.

(But i want to tho :))

Make more that is....

lol

R

[Sehenry03]

I had a similar experience to yours...had the main fighter telling me when to heal and when to stay back...so I put on my mic and proceeded to tell him when to swing his sword...after he got the point he let me play the way i like to play and we did just fine =)

[Gol]

they will be enlightened once they die and you solo the rest of the quest
Been there, done that, see sig. :)

[bigj1608]

I had a similar experience to yours...had the main fighter telling me when to heal and when to stay back...so I put on my mic and proceeded to tell him when to swing his sword...after he got the point he let me play the way i like to play and we did just fine =)

That's hilarious! This will be the tactic I use in the future :D

[PurdueDave]

Been there, done that, see sig. :)

QFT

Did you rez them for the end chest? I didn't.

[issiana]

thats true but any decent player will know who is exactly the noob ;)

QFT.

the first clerics i made where only healbots, because thats what igot told to play when i asked about cleric making. Having a lvl 12 cleric NOT be able to kill the giants in the run up to threnal was truely humiliating.

So now all my clerics are TURE CLERICS. They can heal, they can buff, they can cc, they can kill via spell or sword. and yes they can still do a few dv's to save the noob sauce caster who cant manage his/her spell points. They are fun to play, they are doing stuff at all times. it gives me a great sense of acheivment to hear ppl go, wow that was to easy that quest, when i'm knowing full well that without the cc i did they'd all be dead a few times over.

[FluffyCalico]

Clerics do alot more than heal. They have their own insta kill, a knock down spell, spell reisitance, mass elemental resistance, greater command, death ward, rez. Clerics do alot more than heal. They do pretty much everything except DPS. battle clerics not being commented on as they are a different animal all together.

[unionyes]

On my lowbie cleric I mostly do just hang back and heal, but thats because that is how I choose to play. I would not react kindly to anyone telling me how to play either. If someone tried to make me play a certain way, I would probably also go for the highest kill count.....but I count my kills on my cleric as party deaths :)

And, from time to time, I throw out a Command or Soundburst, simply because I need to mitigate the damage that my party is taking.

Not that it matters, but I don't use wands much either unless someone gives me one. I carry some, but not to enable stupidity. Once my blue bar goes down, smart players will take steps to mitigate the damage they take, and stupid ones die.

[Draccus]

I guess you've never been in a group where the fighters died because the cleric was out of spell points. Yes, clerics are one of, if not the, most powerful classes in the game. Yes, clerics can solo well. But my guess is that the group didn't invite you along to solo the quest while they wait at the entrance.

I've been in several PUGs where players were dying left and right because the cleric ran out of spell points. Why did he run out of spell points? Well, Greater Commanding the last two mobs in every fight helped. Casting extended blade barriers while the party was killing mobs in half a second each certainly contributed. Using insta-kill spells on solo mobs before the party even had a chance to melee it helps as well. Nice job on the kill count though...congrats and all that.

These are probably the same clerics who then come to these boards whining about how expensive it is to play a cleric.

Yes, it's certainly fun to look smugly down on the party members who invited you to join and chuckle about how inferior they are to your mighty cleric but there are as many bad clerics out there are there are bad fighters. Many of them would be better off "sitting back and healing."

[alchilito]

I guess you've never been in a group where the fighters died because the cleric was out of spell points. Yes, clerics are one of, if not the, most powerful classes in the game. Yes, clerics can solo well. But my guess is that the group didn't invite you along to solo the quest while they wait at the entrance.

I've been in several PUGs where players were dying left and right because the cleric ran out of spell points. Why did he run out of spell points? Well, Greater Commanding the last two mobs in every fight helped. Casting extended blade barriers while the party was killing mobs in half a second each certainly contributed. Using insta-kill spells on solo mobs before the party even had a chance to melee it helps as well. Nice job on the kill count though...congrats and all that.

These are probably the same clerics who then come to these boards whining about how expensive it is to play a cleric.

Yes, it's certainly fun to look smugly down on the party members who invited you to join and chuckle about how inferior they are to your mighty cleric but there are as many bad clerics out there are there are bad fighters. Many of them would be better off "sitting back and healing."


The best defense is offense. If you want to see a cleric commanding the end-game, come watch D@mnit destroy stuff in Argonnessen.

[Demoyn]

I don't understand how so many clerics can come to these boards and talk about how people always say battle clerics are bad or their playstyles aren't optimal. I've had four seperate battle clerics, and have played them since prerelease. Not once have I had someone tell me that my battle cleric or my playstyle was inferior to any other cleric in the game (outside of people begging for DVs).

[moops]

Sadly, so many Clerics only know how to heal.

I have played with so many clerics who were powerleveled to 16 who never learned how to play their cleric. I don't know how many times I've asked a cleric if they could Greater Command or Cometfall mobs, or use Harm to pull a Boss, to have them say they didn't know what those spells were. I've even had Lvl 16 clerics not know that they had Destruction, Recitation, Symbol of Stunning, sound burst, Mass Protections, Mass Deathward or prayer.

[MorningStarSE]

I'm from Lord of the Ring Online and on our board each character class have their "what you should know about [insert class name here]" topic ;)

Don't take me wrong its just a little suggestion, i know my DnD but i don't know everything for every classes and DDO is surely one of the most customizable kind of MMO (the freedom here is totally insane).


Oh and do not worries, i know that a Cleric doesn't only heal, yes i build mine like an healbot first but i'm a good CC too, an ok-ok buffer and i've to work my solo abilities..

[Lawrence_V._Sullivan]

just rolled me a cleric/1fighter, and i outkill tanks most of the time while still keeping my group up. i figure if you can outzerg me, ill heal the **** out of you,. but if you are still behind me. then just take notes.

[Chaos000]

I've been in several PUGs where players were dying left and right because the cleric ran out of spell points. Why did he run out of spell points? Well, Greater Commanding the last two mobs in every fight helped. Casting extended blade barriers while the party was killing mobs in half a second each certainly contributed. Using insta-kill spells on solo mobs before the party even had a chance to melee it helps as well. Nice job on the kill count though...congrats and all that.

Nobody watching their own hit point bar during combat and not self healing probably helped... Melee's taking on too many adds without the dps for it probably helped... Not killing all the mobs before the cleric had an opportunity to cast greater command probably helped...


Yes, it's certainly fun to look smugly down on the party members who invited you to join and chuckle about how inferior they are to your mighty cleric but there are as many bad clerics out there are there are bad fighters. Many of them would be better off "sitting back and healing."


There's a lot of melee's not built right who have no buisness going into combat. That goes for cleric's as well. If you wanted to fight you should have rolled up a ranger. (because they're clearly superior to the paladin and fighter)

[Fenrisulven6]

I've been in several PUGs where players were dying left and right because the cleric ran out of spell points. Why did he run out of spell points?

Because he can't afford mnenomic pots at 100,000 gp each just to prevent a party wipe? I wand-whip my party as much as possible and use my own heal pots to save my mana. Its never enough. Usually because the tanks get reckless when a cleric is about.

Try running a mage who's not "allowed" to cast 90% of the spells in his book... what fun.

[Emili]

just rolled me a cleric/1fighter, and i outkill tanks most of the time while still keeping my group up. i figure if you can outzerg me, ill heal the **** out of you,. but if you are still behind me. then just take notes.

Why do you bloody group then? And I highly doubt they need to take notes... isn't bloody rocket science... the game is easy.




These words were spoken recently and moved me to create this post:

Player1(Fighter): Cleric, you just sit back and heal us. I don't want you taking aggro of anything.

To this I say: A Cleric that does nothing but heal is like a Rogue that goes afk, eating his pizza until the group reaches a trap, proceeds to disable it, then goes back to his pizza eating while watching tv.

A solid Cleric can solo very effectively. In a group, this same Cleric can prevent the other five members from taking damage via Greater Command/Cometfall, etc..

People need to be enlightened.

I hate the terms: Healbot and Trapmonkey(Though not the right Forum for this one).

Thoughts?


Yes, cleric do an aweful lot mor then heal... I like to cast quite a bit with mine... even melee from time to time but she's not really designed for that. One question though... I can understand these comments ... if it was poised to you as - "YOU PLAY MY WAY." However, in group, it comes down to playing as a group ... not as an individual, I can take any character in the sig and solo many level approriate quests... Cleric's are a easy solo'r ... yet, certain classes do certain things better then others... Thus a BB here a GC there a comet fall or banish... but the mana best be there for an emergency heal on a party-mate on the next mob or you're playing poorly.

[Chaos000]

Why do you bloody group then?

I can probably answer that. To get through content *faster*. Sometimes it's less about teamplay and more about being efficient and cutting down on the unecessary time spent "leaving no man behind" and helping someone else out without being mercenary about it.

But people will play the way that they want because they're paying $15 bucks like the rest of us.

I understand and appreciate the (fast, efficient, profitable) mentality, and don't worry we prefer grouping amongst ourselves so that people who prefer to not... don't have to.

The clerics that enjoy the teamplay "helping others"-style can *keep* having that (in my opinion, undesireable) job of healing those in need. Once they start realizing that it's not fun and it costs too much running that way they'll end up go anom to avoid pugs and come over to our (more cost effective) side and that's more clerics for us! :D

[gamblerjoe]

just to respond to random things i saw in this thread. not gonna take the time to quote.

building a cleric to just heal? building a rogue to just do traps? talk about cutting yourself off at the knees. for a long time i thought the best grp was composed of 6 players all built to do 1 thing each. how wrong i was. anyone who still thinks this way needs many more months of qualitly experience (perhaps more depending on how much they play, and how intelligent they are.) one might as well build a toon around any other skill or set of spells. even a tank build around intimidate, though effective, is not even scratching the surface of their potential.

blade barrier is not at all effective if the grp is not playing ball. there r too many ways for the party to negate them. my favorite is when i throw up the bb, and the tanks run just ahead of them, fighting the mobs 15 ft in front of them. then the tanks get low on HP with several mobs still left alive. at this point they decide its time to start using the bb. they move back while my bb has just enough time to tick once and disappear. iv gotten a lot better at communicating with parties. i tell them where im about to throw one, that its expensive, and that if they want any healing from me for the rest of the quest they must use it.

i remember a tor grp where we had another cleric besides myself. a caster in the grp was adamate about making the other one his pocket healer. he invised him, and demanded he not do anything to break the invis, implying that any action that would break the invis is unacceptible for any cleric to perform. his banter subtly indicated his distain for me and all OCC clerics. i had a lot of fun interacting with that guy (every other insult being lobbed way over his head.)

clerics r cheep. if your healbot is too expensive, either your $$$ standards are too low, the tank u are comparing it to is woefully underequipped, or u are doing too much healing and not enough mitigating. also, sp sponge tanks should be hung. dont wast yer money or sp on them. trust me, i have a WF barb w <20 ac who is a burden on no cleric.

[Chaos000]

I agree with what gamblerjoe said.

communication is key

So long as your build, no matter what it's built for, is still functional is not invalidated in most every situation you should be fine. It's like a cleric with a ton of dvs and nobody in a party with a mana bar... a rogue with high trap skills and not a single trap in the quest... an intimitank that has a high AC and really low damage output being the only damage dealer in the party... etc.

Make your character relavant, play smart. have fun.

[sjwalker1973]

Yes, but the player who knows how to play a cleric properly knows when to pick his spots and doesn't zerg around like an idiot getting people killed. Unfortunately most players DO NOT know how to play one and think a Cleric is a battle cleric exclusively. If you want a battle cleric, play a Paladin. And for the LOVE OF GOD, GIVE US SOME PLAT to help replenish any scroll use we do. We shouldn't have to ask.

[gfunk]

I used str and dex more or less as dump stats on my cleric, maxed out wis, and put a fair amount into cha and con.

As a result, my cleric is a bit of a wimp when it comes to anything other than healing, and combat casting.

Its pretty difficult to melee with him, due to lowish "to hit" bonus. Of course, as a pure Cleirc I would be effectively restricted to S&B fighting anyways, due to lack of feats/proficiency.

If I had a re-roll, I would use Cha as a dump stat and take some more dex (for reflex/ac) and str (to get a bit better to hit).. who needs dv's anyways (though I would miss the UMD).

I would strongly consider multiclassing with either a level or two of monk, pali, or fighter to gain survivability/feats. Still good enough spell DC's with the +from monk wisdom stance to be an effective combat caster even as a multi-class.

I do think that the cleric class is much more of a learning experience then the other classes due to the variety of roles it can fill (melee/combat casting/healing). The complexity of the role is probably why many clerics end up reverting to just the heal-bot role (those who are a bit overwhelmed with multi-tasking). However if they do figure it all out, I think that it also helps those clerics become the best overall leaders in the game.

[Gunga]

Meh. Not so much.

[Chaos000]

If you want a battle cleric, play a Paladin.

Totally similar to saying, if you want a dps fighter roll a barbarian (or ranger)

If you want a nuker play a sorcerer ... want to keep playing this game?

[DoctorWhofan]

Yup, they can do more than just heal.

BUt they should know HOW to heal, which is my sticking point. Especially with Battleclerics.

The average PuG expects a cleric to HEAL, that's they want and advertise. Because you share a symbol with a healbot and generalist clerics.

This is the reason therewas such a backlash towards Battleclerics. Because some players cannot distinquish that there is a time to kill, and a time to stop looking at the kill count. Yes, there are people who can, but there is ALOT MORE WHO DO NOT.

So, in my little imperfect world, PuGging, I want clerics that heal first, kill second. I play my clerics that way. If that bothers you, don't join my groups.

So, yes, clerics do much more than heal, just many of their players cannot handle multitasking.

[sjwalker1973]

Totally similar to saying, if you want a dps fighter roll a barbarian (or ranger)

If you want a nuker play a sorcerer ... want to keep playing this game?

You obviously didn't get it.

From everything I've seen from a VAST majority of other clerics in the game, they tend to try to run up into battles and get themselves killed. Sorry but I'm too busy healing the rest of the party to notice them getting killed. And then they complain that they weren't healed. HELLO, YOU'RE A CLERIC. HEAL YOURSELF. You should know the limitations of your toon. Clerics aren't tanks. It's all about group mechanics at the higher levels. In the early levels, yeah you can do a bit of zerging, but later on your best bet is to heal, buff and stay back and hit your spots with BB, Cometfalls, Destructions, etc.

[Aranticus]

Clerics do alot more than heal. They have their own insta kill, a knock down spell, spell reisitance, mass elemental resistance, greater command, death ward, rez. Clerics do alot more than heal. They do pretty much everything except DPS. battle clerics not being commented on as they are a different animal all together.

cleric cant dps? unthinkable. melee isnt the only way a cleric can dps. in that case sorcs and wiz cant dps too :rolleyes:

[Chaos000]

You obviously didn't get it.

obviously the point is that:

People have the freedom to play the way they want to play. Other people can exercise that same freedom to exclude those people from their groups.

And yes. Everyone should know the limitations of their toons. Unless everyone does and stop taking so much damage in combat and dying without a healer, I doubt that anyone will.

I agree. If you can't dish it. You play support. That goes for fighters with subpar dps and battle clerics that underdeliver in melee.

People that complain that they weren't being healed when they make no effort to self heal are all ********. Those that run into battle and aggro something that they can't handle by themselves without someone else watching their health bars shouldn't do so unless it's been suggested by the person volunteering to perform that particular function.

Defaulting the job to anyone with the cleric symbol next to their name or having the attitude that their mana bar is there to help you personally irregardless of how gimped out your toon may be, helps justify people choosing to go a different route with their cleric build.

Why play a cleric and not a paladin instead if you wanted to melee? Paladin's don't get near the casting capability of a cleric, (couple lay on hands vs. heal spell, smite vs. blade barrier, the amount of times either of them can cast divine might and divine favor?) and their benefits don't outweigh the negatives. If the biggest drawback of a cleric is the impression people generally have of them... then all the more reason to go battlecleric instead of anything else.

[Phidius]

... Because some players cannot distinquish that there is a time to kill, and a time to stop looking at the kill count. Yes, there are people who can, but there is ALOT MORE WHO DO NOT.


These are the kinds of people who inspired me to delete my pure cleric, and roll up Fradul. It's amazing how much clericing can feel like teaching high school freshmen...

Yes, it can be an opportunity to seize the reigns, and teach them how to be be better people who actually contribute to society, but I'd rather let someone else do it.

[sjwalker1973]

Personally, it's a game and just have fun. But at the higher levels of the game and with raiding content, it's always best to play within the group dynamics. With groups you know and they know you, do what you want. With complete PUGs, play to what they are looking for in a particular class.

[Gorbadoc]

Some of you have mentioned pure healer clerics. Can I see some sample builds? Because I'm at a loss to figure out how a cleric can be good at healing but bad at other spellcasting.

My cleric is a caster. It's my job to manage my spell points so that the party survives to the next shrine. I'll frequently rush ahead of the group, drop a blade barrier, run back behind the party, and laugh as the monsters stand there looking stupid instead of swinging at the fighters blocking their way. It's one of the most fun things about clerics, and it's also the most effective way I know to run certain quests (Madstone comes to mind).

I sometimes have trouble pacing my spell point use, especially if I'm out of practice or unfamiliar with a quest, but I've never listened to the accusation that I'm a bad cleric.

[DoctorWhofan]

Some of you have mentioned pure healer clerics. Can I see some sample builds? Because I'm at a loss to figure out how a cleric can be good at healing but bad at other spellcasting.

My cleric is a caster. It's my job to manage my spell points so that the party survives to the next shrine. I'll frequently rush ahead of the group, drop a blade barrier, run back behind the party, and laugh as the monsters stand there looking stupid instead of swinging at the fighters blocking their way. It's one of the most fun things about clerics, and it's also the most effective way I know to run certain quests (Madstone comes to mind).

I sometimes have trouble pacing my spell point use, especially if I'm out of practice or unfamiliar with a quest, but I've never listened to the accusation that I'm a bad cleric.

you're not. THat is exactly what a cleric does! We are the most efficent way of stopping a party wipe. We have decent offensive capabilities.

[HumanJHawkins]

Clerics: They do more than heal

I know. I know. The question is, how do we get them to stop? :D

<I kid... I kid... Hehehe>