Caster w/o Firewall?!?!?!

[Medic11]

Has anyone ever created a caster that specializes in Acid/Electric spells?

I just rolled a WF Wizzy that I had planned on building around acid/electric and cc spells. So I was wondering if there is anyone out there (and I'm sure there is) that has attepmted this before and if so did they like it? Just seems to me that almost every caster out there is fire spec'd.

[Xyrandina]

I played with a person yesterday that used only CK and Acid rain. It made it a bit rough on the party (in Trial by FIRE), kind of annoying really. Who am I to judge, my sorceress (15Src/1Bard) does not carry GH (I have a planar gird) and I don't do extend either. Play your character how YOU want to play it. Have fun....enjoy the time you have on ddo....because its not much with these awesome downtimes lately.

[Bilger]

We had a sorc in guild who went that route from what I could tell he had alot of fun with it. At higher levels though he did say he felt a lil useless at times because not many good high level spells and some of the immunities that mobs had. But overall he seemed to have a blast with it and was very deadly!!! When things not immune lol:D

[Impaqt]

Why someone wouldnt carry Wall of Fire is beyond me. My WF Wiz is indeed full Acid/Lightning specced and I stil never take WoF off my hotbar.

Even with little to no enhancement, Firewall can doa ton of damage in a short period of time. Much more than an acid rain even if it crits.

[mediocresurgeon]

For certain quests, no Wall of Fire works just fine. For others, I'm reforming my group--without the caster.

[RATRACE931]

My caster is Fire/Cold specced just because i find firewall extremely usefull and most of my favorite spells are kind of bum I.E. Acid Rain, Melf Acid Arrow. But for CC spells the most deadly combo for nearly anything is as follows, Acid Fog on top of Sleet Storm inside a Incendiary Cloud with Web and Cloudkill and maybe a dancing ball. Mana extensive, useless in most raid groups... but **** ****IN FUN!

[Samadhi]

my wiz is acid/elec spec'd and my sorc is force spec'd. The number breakdowns on most spells (NOT firewall) are reasonably comparative no matter what line you go. I would say, however, to take firewall even if you aren't spec'd in it at all. It's DPS potential for certain encounters is so much higher than any other spell that it is pretty clutch.

[Bilger]

For certain quests, no Wall of Fire works just fine. For others, I'm reforming my group--without the caster.

Things like this are such BS just because it is not the IDEAL group and a caster does not have the IDEAL spell does not mean you can't complete. It is nice if they do but if they don't adapt and overcome that is a sign of a good player. Only bad players or bad leaders need to reform the group because the caster has no firewall. It does alot of damage but have you ever seen what a max impowered acid fog with a couple of chain lightnings thrown in can do. Just think and adapt fog slows them down and damages and a chain lightning hitting them together will outdamage a firewall but like I said the blanket immunities suck and OMG most are fire immune now!!! Sorry had to rant just hate when people can't think outside the box!!

[unionyes]

Until they teach the mobs to get out of the firewall rather then stand there shooting arrows at you, Firewall is a must have. You can be acid/electric specced, or repair/force specced, but that doesn't mean you can't have Firewall.

If you had to be specced a certain way to carry certain spells, my sorc wouldn't have magic missile.

[Impaqt]

Things like this are such BS just because it is not the IDEAL group and a caster does not have the IDEAL spell does not mean you can't complete. It is nice if they do but if they don't adapt and overcome that is a sign of a good player. Only bad players or bad leaders need to reform the group because the caster has no firewall. It does alot of damage but have you ever seen what a max impowered acid fog with a couple of chain lightnings thrown in can do. Just think and adapt fog slows them down and damages and a chain lightning hitting them together will outdamage a firewall but like I said the blanket immunities suck and OMG most are fire immune now!!! Sorry had to rant just hate when people can't think outside the box!!

AS I said, I'm completely Acid/Lightnng speced and an acid fog/Multiple Chain Lightings cant cmpare to what a single WoF can do in the right situation. Trolls? Undead? Its not even close. not to mention Chain Lightning is Broken..... It never jumps to alltargets corectly.....

[rimble]

Has anyone ever created a caster that specializes in Acid/Electric spells?

I just rolled a WF Wizzy that I had planned on building around acid/electric and cc spells. So I was wondering if there is anyone out there (and I'm sure there is) that has attepmted this before and if so did they like it? Just seems to me that almost every caster out there is fire spec'd.

That's just stupid...I'm spec'd in both. ;) Just missing Lineage of Deadly Elements III...is it the best idea in the world? Probably not even close, but it works.

Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Energy II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Energy III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Enerrgy Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III

[Bilger]

AS I said, I'm completely Acid/Lightnng speced and an acid fog/Multiple Chain Lightings cant cmpare to what a single WoF can do in the right situation. Trolls? Undead? Its not even close. not to mention Chain Lightning is Broken..... It never jumps to alltargets corectly.....

Reading for the win. I said firewall is nice to have :eek: BUT was commenting on the point of reforming a group because a caster does not have the so called myst have speell. I agree completely firewall in alot of situations is more powerful but a good acid fog amd chain can kill and outdamage just as fast if not faster in some situations.

[Impaqt]

Reading for the win. I said firewall is nice to have :eek: BUT was commenting on the point of reforming a group because a caster does not have the so called myst have speell. I agree completely firewall in alot of situations is more powerful but a good acid fog amd chain can kill and outdamage just as fast if not faster in some situations.

FOr some people, Sure. But a Party leader has the right to restart a quest at any time with our without whoever he wants.

I would never start a run over because X didnt have Y spell, but I respect the rights of party leaders to do what they feel they need to to complete a quest.

[Medic11]

should have been more specific.

I plan on carring firewall just don't plan on it doing crazy damage.

I also agree with the adapt and overcome theory. Everything these days seems to be a blitz from start to finish. I think changing things up a little might bring some of the fun back.

[Levonestral]

I also agree with the adapt and overcome theory. Everything these days seems to be a blitz from start to finish. I think changing things up a little might bring some of the fun back.

You would be pleasantly surprised just how much fun you can have running quests when you purposely go in with a "gimped" group (as per the commonly seen requirements) and try doing things differently than you would with the "perfect" group. It can be a blast or it can be a huge headache.....but with friends, who cares !

Then once you do that, try zerging the quest with that same "gimped" group :D

[Bilger]

FOr some people, Sure. But a Party leader has the right to restart a quest at any time with our without whoever he wants.

I would never start a run over because X didnt have Y spell, but I respect the rights of party leaders to do what they feel they need to to complete a quest.
I respect there right to do so but IMO they should state that in LFM and once you have accepted a certain member to said group then it is leaders fault for not asking the person or stating that is what they expect not everyone has the ideal weaps, spells, or items. If you acceot said person then it is beyond rude to reform because caster doesn't have the ideal spells. Thats where a GOOD leader or group can addapt and overcome. Just because it is not IDEAL doesn't mean have to be rude.

[Impaqt]

I respect there right to do so but IMO they should state that in LFM and once you have accepted a certain member to said group then it is leaders fault for not asking the person or stating that is what they expect not everyone has the ideal weaps, spells, or items. If you acceot said person then it is beyond rude to reform because caster doesn't have the ideal spells. Thats where a GOOD leader or group can addapt and overcome. Just because it is not IDEAL doesn't mean have to be rude.


Meh, People like that just make it easier for me to keep my "Friends" List updated.....

[Thrudh]

I respect the rights of party leaders to do what they feel they need to to complete a quest.

Yep, I also respect a party leader's rights to build a group however he/she wants....

Now, respecting the leader??? Completely different story... My "friends" list too is full of non-respected party leaders :)

[Arianrhod]

Things like this are such BS just because it is not the IDEAL group and a caster does not have the IDEAL spell does not mean you can't complete. It is nice if they do but if they don't adapt and overcome that is a sign of a good player. Only bad players or bad leaders need to reform the group because the caster has no firewall. It does alot of damage but have you ever seen what a max impowered acid fog with a couple of chain lightnings thrown in can do. Just think and adapt fog slows them down and damages and a chain lightning hitting them together will outdamage a firewall but like I said the blanket immunities suck and OMG most are fire immune now!!! Sorry had to rant just hate when people can't think outside the box!!

For most quests, I'd agree, but....say, for instance, you had a level 8 group trying to do Shadow Tombs (especially Shadow King). Without WoF, it could well extend the time needed to complete the quest by several hours. If the caster really wanted to stay, I'd at least try to get them to switch in the spell temporarily. In fact, I was in a group once where the leader did just that - sorc in TBF had stoneskin instead of WoF, and the leader gave them the cash to switch it out, and we all waited on him. Of course, that "run" still took 7 hours, but we didn't kick the caster...

[gamblerjoe]

I respect there right to do so but IMO they should state that in LFM and once you have accepted a certain member to said group then it is leaders fault for not asking the person or stating that is what they expect not everyone has the ideal weaps, spells, or items. If you acceot said person then it is beyond rude to reform because caster doesn't have the ideal spells. Thats where a GOOD leader or group can addapt and overcome. Just because it is not IDEAL doesn't mean have to be rude.

when i form a grp, im not going to ask casters if they have firewall or haste. im not going to ask barbs if they have power attack. im not going to ask clerics if they load heal. these are insulting questions and they will either be ignored or laughed at most of the time. either you know whats expected of you or u dont. when unforseen things happen, i will deal with them as my mood dictates.

[Lifespawn]

when i form a grp, im not going to ask casters if they have firewall or haste. im not going to ask barbs if they have power attack. im not going to ask clerics if they load heal. these are insulting questions and they will either be ignored or laughed at most of the time. either you know whats expected of you or u dont. when unforseen things happen, i will deal with them as my mood dictates.

exactly firewall haste heck even rage are all spells i expect all casters to have why would you not? no other spells in their levels is worth more than these spells.

[Drekisen]

...

[SableShadow]

I don't care what any class does as long as it's effective.

[FluffyCalico]

Something to keep in mind is how often you will be casting it.

Probably 8 of the spells I use most are
Haste
Resist element
Protection from element
Firewall
GH
Displacement
Finger
Flesh to stone

I would not reccomend scrolling or wanding any of these due to the frequency you cast them.

For anyone who says drop the 2 element ones and let the cleric cast them. I prefer the cleric has those spell points for other things. As a sorc I can buff the hell out of a party and still have as many SP left as a wizard.

[cypan41]

Completely agree. If you don't have FW, I'm dropping you as well. It's just a must have spell. Spec acid all you want, but keep fw handy. Sheesh it's really a no brainer.

[Raegoul]

I would like make small point: there was a time when firewall did not exist.

[Strykersz]

Something to keep in mind is how often you will be casting it.

Probably 8 of the spells I use most are
Haste
Resist element
Protection from element
Firewall
GH
Displacement
Finger
Flesh to stone

I would not reccomend scrolling or wanding any of these due to the frequency you cast them.

For anyone who says drop the 2 element ones and let the cleric cast them. I prefer the cleric has those spell points for other things. As a sorc I can buff the hell out of a party and still have as many SP left as a wizard.

You had to go and mention GH didn't you?

edit: You may want to fix your computer's clock, it's wrong.

[FluffyCalico]

I would like make small point: there was a time when firewall did not exist.

And this changes how useful it is how?

Just like web used to better than all other CC put together. Then they changed it. Any spell implemented poorly has the ability to be very powerful and thus very desired.

[Raegoul]

oh i do not doubt that firewall is usefull i just wish it wasnt the only spell that people knew how to use ;)

i think it is a good idea to try not using it for a while for the learning experience.

[FluffyCalico]

oh i do not doubt that firewall is usefull i just wish it wasnt the only spell that people knew how to use ;)

i think it is a good idea to try not using it for a while for the learning experience.

Personally I would to see heighten work on greese. Can you imagine FoM on everyone and a sorc tossing heightened greese all over the place if the DC on greese actually worked right that is?

[Impaqt]

Personally I would to see heighten work on greese. Can you imagine FoM on everyone and a sorc tossing heightened greese all over the place if the DC on greese actually worked right that is?

Doesnt Sleet Storm do the exact same thing?

[shores11]

Has anyone ever created a caster that specializes in Acid/Electric spells?

I just rolled a WF Wizzy that I had planned on building around acid/electric and cc spells. So I was wondering if there is anyone out there (and I'm sure there is) that has attepmted this before and if so did they like it? Just seems to me that almost every caster out there is fire spec'd.

My wizard is max speced in acid/lightning and I really do enjoy the different play. I crit. my chain lightning and lightning balls for 1100 to 1200 HP damage from time to time. The acid side does a little less damage but I use it mostly for crowd control but my acid fog crit's. in excess of 140 points per surge. My melf's acid arrow will hit for 40+ per surge but that also helps to interupt spell casting. I will say that I still carry firewall it is a must in some dungeons. Being non-speced in fire though it will only hit for 400+ when maximized and empowered.

Being the my wizard's name is Fizban I have to carry fireball just for role playing purposes, wizards have the luxury of having a throw away spell or two.

[shores11]

Completely agree. If you don't have FW, I'm dropping you as well. It's just a must have spell. Spec acid all you want, but keep fw handy. Sheesh it's really a no brainer.

I do keep firewall in my active spellbook but I rarely cast it. As an acid/lightning speced wizard I throw up an acid fog and cast a few chain lightning's mob gone. I will not and have never dropped anyone from my groups for their chosen play styles.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[raistlinmajere]

yes fireball is required for a wiz named Fizban.
Now what was the name of that spell?

[unionyes]

Can't believe that there are people out there who don't think Firewall is useful? Maybe I am missing the point.

People expect it. Like haste.

Feel free to run without Firewall, or Haste for that matter. Your choice.

However, understand this. In some quests, Firewall is a great saver of hit points, time, and effort. In other quests, it is scarcely needed, and those occasions where someone else would cast Firewall you can instead cast whatever else and get the same results. In other quests, other spells like Flesh To Stone make things run a lot smoother, and people know this. Madstone without Firewall and/or FTS? Lot longer to do than with those spells along. (Yes, I know, someone will say but I zerged Madstone solo on my whatever in like 4 minutes, so what, I am talking about us mere mortals here).

Your choice to not carry Firewall. My choice to say to you 'Sorry, looking for someone with Firewall for this quest' and dismiss you.

It isn't equitable for someone to insist on their rights to build/carry what they want, but for them to turn around and not respect MY right to say no thanks to taking you along on the quest.

I have a great deal of respect for people who make and play successfully non standard build types. But I am not compelled to take you along. Anyone who makes a non standard build or playstyle needs to understand that they will get some or a lot of resistance, and learn to deal with it.

[Mike626f]

I currently have a level 11 sorcerer(Phyzerre) specializing in acid/elec damage. I have received alot of criticism for it; even been rudely dismissed from parties because of it, but as a sorcerer because of having limited spells, in order for you do the most damage you about need to choose 1 area to specialize in. Since I wanted to be different and sorcerers having limited number of spells, I wont waste my spell choices on spells that I don't specialize in. And for the critics out there, electricity works on almost anything as opposed to fire where many monsters have resistances or immunities(it even does the same damage to undead.) My shocking grasp spell currently does about 80 pts damage a hit(without a critical hit), not to mention that my lightning bolt and ball lightning spells are deadly. Plus I like to attack with my spells a bit more aggresively and really don't care for hiding behind a wall of fire. In my opinion this is more of a defensive attack than an aggresive one. Not to mention if you're behind a wall of fire it's much harder to see what you're targeting. The way I see it, it's your toon; build it the way suited to the way you like to play.

Maximize Spell
Improved Maximize Spell I, II, III
Extend Spell (very helpful for buffs & acid spells)
Acid/elec damage I, II, III
Charisma I, II
Spell Points I, II, III
Mental toughness
Improved Mental Toughness (You need as many sp as you can get to leave maximize on at all times)
Deadly lineage of energy I, II

These are just current feats/enhancements as this is only a level 11 toon.

[Lifespawn]

I currently have a level 11 sorcerer(Phyzerre) specializing in acid/elec damage. I have received alot of criticism for it; even been rudely dismissed from parties because of it, but as a sorcerer because of having limited spells, in order for you do the most damage you about need to choose 1 area to specialize in. Since I wanted to be different and sorcerers having limited number of spells, I wont waste my spell choices on spells that I don't specialize in. And for the critics out there, electricity works on almost anything as opposed to fire where many monsters have resistances or immunities(it even does the same damage to undead.) My shocking grasp spell currently does about 80 pts damage a hit(without a critical hit), not to mention that my lightning bolt and ball lightning spells are deadly. Plus I like to attack with my spells a bit more aggresively and really don't care for hiding behind a wall of fire. In my opinion this is more of a defensive attack than an aggresive one. Not to mention if you're behind a wall of fire it's much harder to see what you're targeting. The way I see it, it's your toon; build it the way suited to the way you like to play.



Your wasting spellpoints plain and simple fire does double damage to undead and 1 max emp firewall with no enhancements will do 10x more damage to a group of undead or any other non resistant mob than your specced in electricity spells simply because it's a persistent spell not single cast.
Maximize Spell
Improved Maximize Spell I, II, III
Extend Spell (very helpful for buffs & acid spells)
Acid/elec damage I, II, III
Charisma I, II
Spell Points I, II, III
Mental toughness
Improved Mental Toughness (You need as many sp as you can get to leave maximize on at all times)
Deadly lineage of energy I, II

These are just current feats/enhancements as this is only a level 11 toon.


Your wasting spellpoints plain and simple fire does double damage to undead and 1 max emp firewall with no enhancements will do 10x more damage to a croup of undead than your specced in electricity spells simply because it's a persistent spell not single cast.


Your call to play how you want but be ready for criticism and being dropped from groups for your spell selection.

[Damionic]

My main from DDO EU is a Storm wiz and was maxed (rebuilding him now in khyber)

and I feel that FW is a bit like Haste..if you are not spamming it at least once per quest..then your a Noob!..this logic has to now change..because

1.Acid Fog is FAR more useful! (more hit area,more damage per tick,can use web,has 20% miss chance,Stacks with Firewall,Higher mobs have fire res..immune)

2.The Elec spells are very effective..and again there not normally ressed and immuned in later levels

3. For a cast and forget spell Acid Arrow works like a charm

Also I must point out..that as current the casters spec is NOT balanced

i. No purple damage for Elec/Acid..this alone is a cheat!
ii.There are 17 (Fire/Cold) spells..including Burningblood and only 7 (Elec/Acid) spells and acid rain is so gimped its untrue!

[Monkey_Archer]

exactly firewall haste heck even rage are all spells i expect all casters to have why would you not? no other spells in their levels is worth more than these spells.

ROFLMAO

No party needs firewall. If you need firewall, that is because your party sucks, not the caster. The only spell in the game that comes close to being "required" is haste...

I have a acid/lighting spec'd sorc that has never, and never will carry firewall... Or any other fire/cold spell for that matter.
So far i can do anything a fire spec'd sorc can do in all the raids where it matters. (including soloing fire/earth elemental in shroud). Would it be easier with firewall and cold spells? sure. There are also plenty of situations where am acid/lighting sorc is better.

A couple examples:
-Blackbone skeletons - immune to fire/cold - 1 ball lighting kills them en-mass
-Pit fiend/Devils - immune to fire/ resistant to cold - no resistance to electricity
- untill the level cap goes up, ball lighting is basically a delayed blast fireball that costs 10 less sp
-Acid arrow - most underrated spell in the game. This spell quite possibly does more damage per spell point then any other spell. Acid 101 - hit all names with 1 acid arrow first then nuke with whatever else you got.

If you want to run an acid/lighting spec caster I say go for it. Being a good caster has nothing to do with the suposebly "best" spells, and everything to do with using what spells you do have effectively.

[Lifespawn]

ROFLMAO

No party needs firewall. If you need firewall, that is because your party sucks, not the caster. The only spell in the game that comes close to being "required" is haste...
I never said required just a spell they Should have name a lvl 4 spell that is more usefull in more situations.

I have a acid/lighting spec'd sorc that has never, and never will carry firewall... Or any other fire/cold spell for that matter.
You use more spellpoints to do the same job
So far i can do anything a fire spec'd sorc can do in all the raids where it matters. (including soloing fire/earth elemental in shroud). Would it be easier with firewall and cold spells? sure. There are also plenty of situations where am acid/lighting sorc is better.
Take the wall aggro and prep them you can't do it without drinking pots or having to use a tree.

A couple examples:
-Blackbone skeletons - immune to fire/cold - 1 ball lighting kills them en-mass
-Pit fiend/Devils - immune to fire/ resistant to cold - no resistance to electricity
- untill the level cap goes up, ball lighting is basically a delayed blast fireball that costs 10 less sp
-Acid arrow - most underrated spell in the game. This spell quite possibly does more damage per spell point then any other spell. Acid 101 - hit all names with 1 acid arrow first then nuke with whatever else you got.

If you want to run an acid/lighting spec caster I say go for it. Being a good caster has nothing to do with the suposebly "best" spells, and everything to do with using what spells you do have effectively.


my fire specced sorc has ball lightning and can still kill those blackbones 1 shot just as you can

polar ray outdoes your ball lightning all day long on pit fiend and there is no save for 1/2 damage.

Acid lightning sorc can do well i never said they couldn't but there are very very few times where they can ever do better.

Play like you want i've said it multiple times but be ready for people to tell you your suboptimal and accept that.

[Lifespawn]

My main from DDO EU is a Storm wiz and was maxed (rebuilding him now in khyber)

and I feel that FW is a bit like Haste..if you are not spamming it at least once per quest..then your a Noob!..this logic has to now change..because

1.Acid Fog is FAR more useful! (more hit area,more damage per tick,can use web,has 20% miss chance,Stacks with Firewall,Higher mobs have fire res..immune)
I don't know about your firewalls but mine hit well over 300 on a crit acid fog can't even come close.

2.The Elec spells are very effective..and again there not normally ressed and immuned in later levels
They are very usefull never said they weren't but they all have reflex saves cats trogs and ranged mobs all have good evasion making firewall more useful.
3. For a cast and forget spell Acid Arrow works like a charm
love this spell underrated does tons of damage over time still can't compete with firewall unless they are fire immune.
Also I must point out..that as current the casters spec is NOT balanced

i. No purple damage for Elec/Acid..this alone is a cheat!
ii.There are 17 (Fire/Cold) spells..including Burningblood and only 7 (Elec/Acid) spells and acid rain is so gimped its untrue!



I agree there needs to be more acid elec spells to the game then maybe an acid elec specced sorc could rival a fire cold sorc but as is now it can't

[spyderwolf]

think about it like this. do you cast 1 acid fog and 4 chain lightnings? so 5 level 6 spells. ORRRRRR do you cast 1 level 4 spell (firewall) its all about mana conservation really. yes you can get away without firewall and use acid/light spells , BUT you will run out of mana far far quicker than someone using firewall.and my sorcis specced into both lines. i use ball lightning followed by cone of cold for burst damage, but when i need sustained dps i use acid fog with a firewall in it.

[Draclaud]

I had my WF Wizzie A/L specced for awhile. I like it alot I really do. I actually preffer that spec over all. The problem isn't just FW but scorching ray as well. I couldn't justify the lack of SP efficiency with the A/L spells vs the FW/Scorching Ray/Cone of Cold. I'd love to spec back to A/L but I felt too gimped by not using a fully specced FW/Scorching Ray specialist.

[rimble]

I had my WF Wizzie A/L specced for awhile. I like it alot I really do. I actually preffer that spec over all. The problem isn't just FW but scorching ray as well. I couldn't justify the lack of SP efficiency with the A/L spells vs the FW/Scorching Ray/Cone of Cold. I'd love to spec back to A/L but I felt too gimped by not using a fully specced FW/Scorching Ray specialist.

I found Acid/Lightning frustrating because:

1) You can't stack Acid Damage. For example, if you have a creature in an Acid Fog with a Melf's Acid Arrow on him, only the higher damaging one will tick. Other people have refuted this before, but I've tested it multiple times. Maybe my character is broken...? Having a good Acid Fog going with a good Wall of Fire in it works well. And Web works just fine with Wall of Fire too if you know how to target spells, so I don't think that's a particularly valid argument against Wall of Fire (in reply to some other post above).

2) Chain Lightning, although it hits like a Mack truck, frequently misfires and doesn't hit three targets like it should. The misfires drove me nuts, so I dropped it.

3) Needs more spells. Like Vitriolic Sphere from the Spell Compendium.

[Tarackian]

you want GH?? farm a gird or drink a hero pot or get a warchanter to sing (even better than a GH)....and lets roll....people have become way to dependent on too many things......be self sufficient....want for nothing....


Something to keep in mind is how often you will be casting it.

Probably 8 of the spells I use most are
Haste
Resist element
Protection from element
Firewall
GH
Displacement
Finger
Flesh to stone

I would not reccomend scrolling or wanding any of these due to the frequency you cast them.

For anyone who says drop the 2 element ones and let the cleric cast them. I prefer the cleric has those spell points for other things. As a sorc I can buff the hell out of a party and still have as many SP left as a wizard.

[Damionic]

I found Acid/Lightning frustrating because:

1) You can't stack Acid Damage. For example, if you have a creature in an Acid Fog with a Melf's Acid Arrow on him, only the higher damaging one will tick. Other people have refuted this before, but I've tested it multiple times. Maybe my character is broken...? Having a good Acid Fog going with a good Wall of Fire in it works well. And Web works just fine with Wall of Fire too if you know how to target spells, so I don't think that's a particularly valid argument against Wall of Fire (in reply to some other post above).

2) Chain Lightning, although it hits like a Mack truck, frequently misfires and doesn't hit three targets like it should. The misfires drove me nuts, so I dropped it.

3) Needs more spells. Like Vitriolic Sphere from the Spell Compendium.


think about it like this. do you cast 1 acid fog and 4 chain lightnings? so 5 level 6 spells. ORRRRRR do you cast 1 level 4 spell (firewall) its all about mana conservation really. yes you can get away without firewall and use acid/light spells , BUT you will run out of mana far far quicker than someone using firewall.and my sorcis specced into both lines. i use ball lightning followed by cone of cold for burst damage, but when i need sustained dps i use acid fog with a firewall in it.

I feel your remark about spell point conservation is not valid. Because


I only use Lightning, LB and CL on things that need to die fast (like bosses)
FW is very inefficient... because it only works when mobs are in or near it so when it’s normally cast in the heat of the moment (excuse the pun) mobs are normally only in it for a short time. Because the Tanks/Meat shields don’t get the concept of STAYING IN THE FW!! So you have to cast several of them to make it count.
And two/three M E Firewall’s cost..?? Cant find the details but you can bet it will be less then one M E Acid Fog J

My normal plan of attack is one Super Acid Arrow… followed by a Super Shocking Grasp if they get close enough to take offence.

My Point about AF (acid fog) having a higher amount of damage per tick is valid because there is more area of effect = more things to damage = More Damage*

* Unless you super FWing a neat row of stationary undead.

Looking at the spell descriptions…I feel that acid rain is a bit of a dark horse

Laughably weak at first cast (due to sh*t spell duration) but at lvl 20 this will pack a punch!

Acid Arrow and Acid Fog DOES stack (the mob in question gets twice as much ticks at the different damage rates per the different DOT’s)

[FluffyCalico]

you want GH?? farm a gird or drink a hero pot or get a warchanter to sing (even better than a GH)....and lets roll....people have become way to dependent on too many things......be self sufficient....want for nothing....

No for many reasons
1) The song does not grant fear immunity+ if I am having to burn a spot for a bard because you won't buff why did I bring you?
2) Why farm a short cast gird to get the 2nd most cast buff in the game?
3) Self sufficient is not greater than can accomplish the very specific needed task when in groups of 12. So what if you can do alittle of everything you can't deal with any of the 5 things I need people to deal with as you are too generalized.

Many people have taken to my approach with this. Learn any spell you want, don't have any you don't want as it's your account. But if you can't even give the most basic of buffs that are wanted in every quest then at least respect my right not to invite you ever again.

[Mhykke]

2) Why farm a short cast gird to get the 2nd most cast buff in the game?


Don't mean to get in the middle, but a quick question.

Short cast? It lasts 11 minutes....

[FluffyCalico]

Don't mean to get in the middle, but a quick question.

Short cast? It lasts 11 minutes....

Yes and know how long GH from my sorc lasts since it hasn't turned off extend, heighten or max in like 7 levels.

And yes there are quests with more than 11 min between shrines. And yes there are people without this item.

[Damionic]

No for many reasons
1) The song does not grant fear immunity+ if I am having to burn a spot for a bard because you won't buff why did I bring you?
2) Why farm a short cast gird to get the 2nd most cast buff in the game?
3) Self sufficient is not greater than can accomplish the very specific needed task when in groups of 12. So what if you can do alittle of everything you can't deal with any of the 5 things I need people to deal with as you are too generalized.

Many people have taken to my approach with this. Learn any spell you want, don't have any you don't want as it's your account. But if you can't even give the most basic of buffs that are wanted in every quest then at least respect my right not to invite you ever again.


Don't mean to get in the middle, but a quick question.

Short cast? It lasts 11 minutes....

Im sorry..what has this got to do with the OT?

[FluffyCalico]

...

[Lifespawn]

I feel your remark about spell point conservation is not valid. Because


I only use Lightning, LB and CL on things that need to die fast (like bosses)
FW is very inefficient... because it only works when mobs are in or near it so when it’s normally cast in the heat of the moment (excuse the pun) mobs are normally only in it for a short time. Because the Tanks/Meat shields don’t get the concept of STAYING IN THE FW!! So you have to cast several of them to make it count.
And two/three M E Firewall’s cost..?? Cant find the details but you can bet it will be less then one M E Acid Fog J

My normal plan of attack is one Super Acid Arrow… followed by a Super Shocking Grasp if they get close enough to take offence.

My Point about AF (acid fog) having a higher amount of damage per tick is valid because there is more area of effect = more things to damage = More Damage*

* Unless you super FWing a neat row of stationary undead.

Looking at the spell descriptions…I feel that acid rain is a bit of a dark horse

Laughably weak at first cast (due to sh*t spell duration) but at lvl 20 this will pack a punch!

Acid Arrow and Acid Fog DOES stack (the mob in question gets twice as much ticks at the different damage rates per the different DOT’s)

When i throw a firewall it gets aggro they come after me and i don't run away i circle the firewall they get hit constantly i can do almost any dungeon solo with good tactics and will use way less sp in anything where they are not fire immune.

Like i've said and i'll say again acid and lightning spells are great and fun but not as good as fire/cold spells your argument about casting multiple firewalls to work is weak i'll give you a weak one on yours that shocking grasp does no good when the mob circles behind you or out of range when you cast my firewall needs no target so it never fails.


Firewall has a large range to damage in i find it is the same as my acidfogs solid or acidfog+fw in the middle they are going nowhere and take max damage and die quicker.

[Damionic]

When i throw a firewall it gets aggro they come after me and i don't run away i circle the firewall they get hit constantly i can do almost any dungeon solo with good tactics and will use way less sp in anything where they are not fire immune.

Like i've said and i'll say again acid and lightning spells are great and fun but not as good as fire/cold spells your argument about casting multiple firewalls to work is weak i'll give you a weak one on yours that shocking grasp does no good when the mob circles behind you or out of range when you cast my firewall needs no target so it never fails.


Firewall has a large range to damage in i find it is the same as my acidfogs solid or acidfog+fw in the middle they are going nowhere and take max damage and die quicker.

1.The clue is in the name "Shocking Grasp"

2.If I needed to range I would use a range spell...lightning bolt anyone? (and there is a point when Lightning Bolt out damages Shocking Grasp so when I reach that..that LB will be my anti aggro spell.

3.If you think my valid post about several Firewalls is weak..then fine..ignorence is free

4.I've never stated that Fire/Cold spells arn't effective (turning your point backward) as all spells can/should be

5.Im sorry mate..you can hit more mobs in a AF then a FW thats just fact.

6.Im not trying to tell you how to play..Im just defending how I play.

[Lifespawn]

1.The clue is in the name "Shocking Grasp"

2.If I needed to range I would use a range spell...lightning bolt anyone? (and there is a point when Lightning Bolt out damages Shocking Grasp so when I reach that..that LB will be my anti aggro spell.

3.If you think my valid post about several Firewalls is weak..then fine..ignorence is free

4.I've never stated that Fire/Cold spells arn't effective (turning your point backward) as all spells can/should be

5.Im sorry mate..you can hit more mobs in a AF then a FW thats just fact.

6.Im not trying to tell you how to play..Im just defending how I play.


Your just pointing out your own ignorance shocking grasp can start to cast and then the mob can move out of range being a wasted casting.

How is me not having to cast firewall multiple times to get use out of it me being ignorant it just smacks of you not knowing how to use a firewall.

Firewall has a large aoe maybe you should test it before you spout things.

Again i don't care how you play it's just not as good to be acid/light specced as it is fire/cold spec.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My CC specced Sorc took WoF as soon as I could. Not because I wanted to.... I really, really did not want to.... But it is just too good of a spell to pass up.

At lvl 16 it is one of only two damaging spells I carry. (but might switch out for a third soon).

[Damionic]

Twice..you have missed the point..third time lucky

I use shocking grasp when mobs are beating on me..so they are not going to run away..do a backflip or anything else that would make me not bring the pain.

If you want to belive that everyone should be one type (Fire/Cold) then fine belive that..It wont make it happen.

Do me a favour..next time you cast AF in a room with lots of mobs..count them..then compare that to a FW (you will find to your amazement the AF hits more mobs)

[Kalari]

My main is force and repair specced as well as all my mages but I do carry fire wall because its still a decent situational spell for me specially in the new frosty area :)

I hope the new spells they listed will give force more of an oomph and a wall of force spell would make me weak in the knees but I definitely dont knock firewall its just not my favorite spell to use :)

[Lifespawn]

Twice..you have missed the point..third time lucky

I use shocking grasp when mobs are beating on me..so they are not going to run away..do a backflip or anything else that would make me not bring the pain.
News flash mobs sometimes backup or shocking here i know circle behind you.

If you want to belive that everyone should be one type (Fire/Cold) then fine belive that..It wont make it happen.
You obviously don't read what i type i've said you don't have to be fire/cold my argument was just that fire/cold was more efficient and why not have firewall anyway what pressing lvl 4 spell has more uses.

Do me a favour..next time you cast AF in a room with lots of mobs..count them..then compare that to a FW (you will find to your amazement the AF hits more mobs)
Let me lay it down for you firewall stand in it it hits the same mobs but does 3x the damage and the range is close to an acid fog if not the same and dare i say Greater range lengthwise do a little research before you spout things you don't know.


You turned this conversation into me having to make you look bad i didn't try to do so try being civil next time it gets better responses.

[War5475]

Well after having a Elec/acid sorcerer i can say its the most fun Ive had with a character. Once you get ball lightning everything other than a boss is an instant kill with chain or ball lightning doing 800 points of damage is awesome! I do hate firewall i really think its a cheesy spell I do have it and use it sparingly one because it takes so long to kill something when i can have it dead in one cast. or if its resistant to acid and elec its completely stupid for a mob to stand in the fire and not figure out that they shouldn't stand in the fire like they don't stand in their own camp fires. Anyway you will have sooo much fun and when they start complaining that your not using a fire wall just zap the mobs with ball lightning and watch as they all fall dead and everyone goes... "ohh wow that's nice." You get the last laugh that way. and then just use you firewalls only when really needed.

[Damionic]

News flash mobs sometimes backup or shocking here i know circle behind you.
Landing a aggro'd Shocking Grasp is as hard as a monk landing a punch when aggro'd..eg Not Very (your point about mobs moving is funny as WE move as well)

You obviously don't read what i type i've said you don't have to be fire/cold my argument was just that fire/cold was more efficient and why not have firewall anyway what pressing lvl 4 spell has more uses.

This is what I typed before..pls look on page 2

Also I must point out..that as current the casters spec is NOT balanced

i. No purple damage for Elec/Acid..this alone is a cheat!
ii.There are 17 (Fire/Cold) spells..including Burningblood and only 7 (Elec/Acid) spells and acid rain is so gimped its untrue!

Im sorry were's the argument?..it comes down to preference..same as ranged rangers and THF builds.


Let me lay it down for you firewall stand in it it hits the same mobs but does 3x the damage and the range is close to an acid fog if not the same and dare i say Greater range lengthwise do a little research before you spout things you don't know.

Oh im glad you aggree with me..its just a shame you seem to think that someone playing since beta on DDO EU who has maxed this build..somehow does not know what he is talking about...I accept your apology :)

[MissErres]

I can see how playing a Acid/Electric sorc would be fun. ZAPP!!!... dead!

But since all mine are Fire/Cold speced, I gotta ask....

Do you get 1000+ red/purple number damage on multiple targets with one cast? ... as say some do with Cone of Cold...

Seriously, just a question.

[Damionic]

I can see how playing a Acid/Electric sorc would be fun. ZAPP!!!... dead!

But since all mine are Fire/Cold speced, I gotta ask....

Do you get 1000+ red/purple number damage on multiple targets with one cast? ... as say some do with Cone of Cold...

Seriously, just a question.

Sadly no..as I pointed out in page 2..d&d dont like casters that use elements other then Fire and Cold..so it unfairly gives them double damage on certen mobs..

and it seems that Turbine has not the will or inclination to balance this cheat..

[FluffyCalico]

Sadly no..as I pointed out in page 2..d&d dont like casters that use elements other then Fire and Cold..so it unfairly gives them double damage on certen mobs..

and it seems that Turbine has not the will or inclination to balance this cheat..

Acid based things should take double from lighting and lighting based things should take double from acid.

Look at Dragons for example. Thier opposite element from their breath is the best element to hit them with

[LeeRoy]

I played with a person yesterday that used only CK and Acid rain. It made it a bit rough on the party (in Trial by FIRE), kind of annoying really. Who am I to judge, my sorceress (15Src/1Bard) does not carry GH (I have a planar gird) and I don't do extend either. Play your character how YOU want to play it. Have fun....enjoy the time you have on ddo....because its not much with these awesome downtimes lately.

a good sorc doesnt carry gh to many good spells that level to get a spell for poeple to lazy to get a planar gird takes 1 hour if that....

[FluffyCalico]

a good sorc doesnt carry gh to many good spells that level to get a spell for poeple to lazy to get a planar gird takes 1 hour if that....

Repect peoples right to not group with ones that don't and they will repect your right to not carry it.

[shores11]

Has anyone ever created a caster that specializes in Acid/Electric spells?

I just rolled a WF Wizzy that I had planned on building around acid/electric and cc spells. So I was wondering if there is anyone out there (and I'm sure there is) that has attepmted this before and if so did they like it? Just seems to me that almost every caster out there is fire spec'd.

My wizard Fizban is acid/lightning speced but I always carry firewall as well. Firewall is a very important spell in certain situations you just can't get rid of it. However I enjoy my acid/lightning speced wizard much more than my fire/ice speced wizard.

[Lifespawn]

News flash mobs sometimes backup or shocking here i know circle behind you.
Landing a aggro'd Shocking Grasp is as hard as a monk landing a punch when aggro'd..eg Not Very (your point about mobs moving is funny as WE move as well)This comment was just to point out your stupid argument that you have to use multiple firewalls to make it useful
You obviously don't read what i type i've said you don't have to be fire/cold my argument was just that fire/cold was more efficient and why not have firewall anyway what pressing lvl 4 spell has more uses.

This is what I typed before..pls look on page 2

Also I must point out..that as current the casters spec is NOT balancedThen you agree with my entire point that it's more efficient to be fire/cold specced than acid lightning specced with current spells ingame.
i. No purple damage for Elec/Acid..this alone is a cheat!
ii.There are 17 (Fire/Cold) spells..including Burningblood and only 7 (Elec/Acid) spells and acid rain is so gimped its untrue!

Im sorry were's the argument?..it comes down to preference..same as ranged rangers and THF builds.Nope no preference there twf does loads more damage that thf just like fire/cold spec can do more damage for less sp than acid/light spec.

Let me lay it down for you firewall stand in it it hits the same mobs but does 3x the damage and the range is close to an acid fog if not the same and dare i say Greater range lengthwise do a little research before you spout things you don't know.You seem to miss the point about it having GREATER RANGE lengthwise and almost the same if not the same widthwise.

Oh im glad you aggree with me..its just a shame you seem to think that someone playing since beta on DDO EU who has maxed this build..somehow does not know what he is talking about...I accept your apology :)
Your responses prove that you don't know what your talking about i don't have to try to think about it

[Damionic]

Your responses prove that you don't know what your talking about i don't have to try to think about it

As you seem to like having the last post (even though you have lost the argument)..I let you have it (as I have moved on anyway)

Have a nice life.

[Jay203]

mystic is acid/electric specc'ed with a dabble in fire/ice
actually, to be more accurate, he's enchant/necro focused but is able to do damage spells :D:D:D
he does quite nicely majority of the time, just really annoying when people start whining and b!tching when i started using stinking cloud (they have NO idea what it does :()
anywho, no one is really going to notice whether or not your WoF is doing massive damage or not, just throw it in there as a cover :p:p:p:p
acid fog + wall of fire + random tossing of ball lightnings are fun!
not to mention sphere of dancing and then just throw in a couple ball lightnings :D:D

[Lifespawn]

As you seem to like having the last post (even though you have lost the argument)..I let you have it (as I have moved on anyway)

Have a nice life.

how exactly have i lost you proved my own point thats it's more efficient to be fire/cold specced than acid/light specced if you think you've won by changing your argument to be the same as mine then have at it whatever makes you feel better.

[Ereshkigal]

I generally try to avoid such discussions, but i've failed my willpower save and thus I am going to give you my two copper pieces.

Some players allow a very narrow definition for a character class and if it deviates from that definition they call it a poorly rolled character or they say the player doesn't understand ddo.

The truth is that any character whether multiclass or pure can be created to do a wide variety of things very well. This complicates party-forming for people who are out to grind things as quickly and efficiently as they can.

I would argue that the problem is the grind that Turbine has built into the game.

Traps, monsters, even dungeon map layouts should be randomized. End Bosses should have the ability to be different from time to time. At the beginning of each quest, the party leader should have the option to "remove shrines" from the quest, allowing for an xp bonus as a result.

In short, Turbine should do as much as possible to make quests as fresh and surprising as possible each time, so that people are not as able to find that "optimal" fit for a quest. This would mean looking to have a wide variety of characters that can do a wide variety of things, as you never know what you will need to complete the quest, until long after you've entered the quest.

This wouldn't keep some people from saying certain spells are mandatory and that others are useless, but it would make a more accepting world for those who don't like to make cookie-cutter builds.

Also Turbine should allow you to choose an icon that best defines your characters specialty, rather than showing the icon of the class you have the most levels in. If you're a crowd-control caster, or a dps caster, tank, trapsmith, etc etc.

I have a caster that specializes in hypnotism, halt undead ( with charms thrown in if the party is getting into trouble or outpacing the clerics healing abilities ). However he doesn't carry haste and he doesn't carry firewall. period. I tell people this up front, and I also have another caster that does carry the more traditional spells. They're two very different characters, both very effective in their own right. Shame they get the same label.

The burden of asking what spells someone has should fall upon the party leader, as many players in ddo have not been around long enough to understand they might be "expected" to have a spell that they do not have. Making new people welcome is all our jobs as it helps to ensure the continuation of DDO.

[WolfSpirit]

Isn't Cloudkill going to get Acid Damage to make up for the "No Death by Con Damage" Thing?

On a side note, My Wizard is Fire Speced and he does very well.
My Sorcerer is Acid/Electric and I enjoy playing him MUCH more because of it.
Yes, he carries Firewall. We must do what we can to keep the whiners and Naysayers down.
Truth? Sometimes I don't even max/Empower the thing. I just throw it up extended and the melees have their confidence up and take care of business without even knowing the wall is doing very little damage.

I'll tell you, there is no feeling like dropping a ball Lightening down on 10 or 12 monsters you've herded together and seeing it crit for well over 1,000 damage on each. I call it my Mass Death Spell.
Chain Lightening though? I've gone back to it and swapped it back out SEVERAL times, it never seems to hit very many monsters. And despite its description for damage, I NEVER see it wack out the same damage numbers that ball does. Sad Really, it SOUNDS so cool!
And a Crit Acid fog does Between 120-150 per tic, Slows ALL monsters, has a wider Field of activity, provides 20% concelment, and DOES stack with other acid and any other spell.
Not nearly the total damage of a Wall of fire, but it sure does alot of different things a Wall only dreams about.

So build your Acid character, he will be MORE than playable!


So the real question here is...
Why are Force Speced character so gimped!
I REALLY want to do this with my WF Sorc but...

[Lifespawn]

Isn't Cloudkill going to get Acid Damage to make up for the "No Death by Con Damage" Thing?

On a side note, My Wizard is Fire Speced and he does very well.
My Sorcerer is Acid/Electric and I enjoy playing him MUCH more because of it.
Yes, he carries Firewall. We must do what we can to keep the whiners and Naysayers down.
Truth? Sometimes I don't even max/Empower the thing. I just throw it up extended and the melees have their confidence up and take care of business without even knowing the wall is doing very little damage.

I'll tell you, there is no feeling like dropping a ball Lightening down on 10 or 12 monsters you've herded together and seeing it crit for well over 1,000 damage on each. I call it my Mass Death Spell.
Chain Lightening though? I've gone back to it and swapped it back out SEVERAL times, it never seems to hit very many monsters. And despite its description for damage, I NEVER see it wack out the same damage numbers that ball does. Sad Really, it SOUNDS so cool!
And a Crit Acid fog does Between 120-150 per tic, Slows ALL monsters, has a wider Field of activity, provides 20% concelment, and DOES stack with other acid and any other spell.
Not nearly the total damage of a Wall of fire, but it sure does alot of different things a Wall only dreams about.

So build your Acid character, he will be MORE than playable!


So the real question here is...
Why are Force Speced character so gimped!
I REALLY want to do this with my WF Sorc but...


acid fog and melfs do not stack no idea about acid rain or burning blood but i've tested the fog and arrow extensively

force specced casters can do hella damage and fast force specced is gimp because there is only 2 spells to do damage with if there were more options it's be awesome

[stewy1956]

ive got a acid/elec spec. caster he is not capped atm at level 14 sorc and 1 bard no 1000 point cold but ive cast mid 500's on a chain lightning he also has f/w spell but no enhancements to the fire/cold line only acid / elec he is very fun to play a little more of a challange cause your not running around a f/w all the time and the f/w spell isnt very deadly but it makes the tanks happy to see it now and then :)

[Kalari]

I still love force though I think eventually force will get more love but ive made force work for all my arcanes since even in pnp it has been my preferred way to blast threw things. Now sonic poor sonic needs more love for sure but I think force even with only two spells can be handy.