Dragonmark Heir?

[RioRussell]

I have a cleric with full healing marks. I absolutely love him. I get 1455 extra spell points per rest of healing (9 CLW, 7CSW, 5Heals, all max/empowered/empowered heal).

On normal content I almost never spend a spell point on healing, and on elite content and raids my mem pot and scroll usage is quite low. Also the dragonmarks and spells are on different cooldowns, so he can spam heal when called for.

This has made me really look forward to the upcoming halfling prestige enhancement. I think the dragonmarks are as costly an investment as anything in the game (tempest takes 3 feats as well, and some believe it is overpowered). So here's my wishlist for this PrC:

Dragonmark Heir I, ML 6, 4AP:
Requires: Least dragonmark of Healing, Extra dragonmark I, Jorasco Healing II
This enhancement gives you one more use per rest of any dragonmark ability. You gain the ability for one of your least dragonmark uses to cast the spell Remove Curse or Remove Disease.

Dragonmark Heir II, ML12, 2AP:
Requires: Lesser dragonmark of Healing, Extra dragonmark II, Jorasco Healing III
This enhancement gives you another use per rest of any dragonmark ability. You gain the ability for one of your lesser dragonmark uses to cast the spell Panacea or Raise Dead.

Dragonmark Heir III, ML18, 2AP:
Requires: Greater dragonmark of Healing, Extra dragonmark III, Jorasco Healing IV, and any one of: Empower Healing, Skill Focus: Heal.
This enhancement upgrades all your dragonmarks to their Mass variety (mass CLW, mass CSW, mass heal). You gain the ability for one of your greater dragonmark uses to cast True Resurrection.


All in all, I don't think this would be too overpowered because of the heavy investment (10AP for healing line, 6AP for extra dragonmark, and 4 feats). But it would make halfling clerics the best healers in the game -- like they aren't already ;)

[Thrudh]

Dragonmark Heir III, ML18, 2AP:
Requires: Greater dragonmark of Healing, Extra dragonmark III, Jorasco Healing IV, and any one of: Empower Healing, Skill Focus: Heal.
This enhancement upgrades all your dragonmarks to their Mass variety (mass CLW, mass CSW, mass heal). You gain the ability for one of your greater dragonmark uses to cast True Resurrection.


All in all, I don't think this would be too overpowered because of the heavy investment (10AP for healing line, 6AP for extra dragonmark, and 4 feats). But it would make halfling clerics the best healers in the game -- like they aren't already ;)

heh, you don't think Tier III you suggested is overpowered??? Mass Heal?? :)

[RioRussell]

heh, you don't think Tier III you suggested is overpowered??? Mass Heal?? :)

I would make the arguement that it is not. You have spent 4 feats and 16 action points, and its a level 18 enhancement.
You would have to use the same arguement that having 4 casts of heal per rest at level 9 was overpowered. I don't hear anyone complaining about how the greater halfling dragonmark has made clerics totally unbalanced with the other classes. :p

what it does is reward those of us that want to make a singularly focused character and are willing to devote the feats and APs to do it. It rewards us for making the dragonmark the key to the build and not an afterthought that we spent our extra fighter / monk feats on ;)

[Lorichie]

i love my dragonmarked cleric. was first cleric i made and tho ive thought about deleting him and remaking, i just cant.

my only wish, was some type of enhancement, capstone, whatever that would allow a fourth dmark that would cast cure mass mod, even if only 3/ rest. Thats my only thing i miss with this guy. with feats the way they are i can only take quicken and maximize, and sometimes i just need a little more punch.

R

[Angelus_dead]

heh, you don't think Tier III you suggested is overpowered??? Mass Heal?? :)
Clerics will already be casting Mass Heal for only +15 sp beyond normal Heal...

[RioRussell]

Clerics will already be casting Mass Heal for only +15 sp beyond normal Heal...

Bingo... Having it as a Level 18 enhancement keeps it from getting out of hand.

Truly there are two benefits that will keep the dragonmarks from becoming obselete after mass heal becomes the only healing spell for clerics:
1. The real benefit to the dragonmarks after mass heal will be the different cooldown timers. You can alternate casts of mass heal and dragonmark heal (mass if my dreams come true) for twice the heals / sec when needed.
2. Antimagic does not impact dragonmarks. I forsee circumstances in the future where this can come into play. (it is pretty fun to spamheal the GoP beholder while standing in front of him)

[RioRussell]

Maybe Eladrin takes a look on friday and makes a last minute decision on which preview to post (like he has nothing better to do than peruse the forums :rolleyes:)

El - show us some halfling love!

[Thrudh]

Truly there are two benefits that will keep the dragonmarks from becoming obselete after mass heal becomes the only healing spell for clerics

Note that halfling dragonmarks are for halflings, though, not clerics...

Single-person heal might become obsolete for a halfling cleric... but every other class will still get HUGE benefit out of it... Like I said it before, I think it's the best dragonmark out there... verging on being overpowered.

[Thrudh]

My hafling ranger/wizard loves his dragonmarks... (Combine ranger devotion enhancements with free wizard Maximize feat for the win!)

However, I think the halfling dragonmarks are overpowered already. Lots of times, my ranger/wizard can fill the cleric role on normal quests... Make all my dragonmarks mass, plus true rez??? Seems a bit much...

You have to balance raids against normal quests... Raid bosses require several minutes of frantic healing... Quests usually only have 1-4 "something hit the fan" moments... One would not need a lot of mass heals to save the day in most quests... Again, I can usually do it now with a couple of single-person heals. Give me mass CSW and mass heals and I'll be awesome (tempting as it is - that's a lot of power... could lead to a new Flavor of the Month build)

I think your ideas are good... They definitely need some tweaking...

I do agree your costs are very high, which might balance it out... Jorasco Healing IV??? Ouch... 10 APs for +4 to your Heal skill??

[RioRussell]

You bring up a good point, balancing the dragonmark improvements for non healing focused players (your ranger being a great example).

As an aside, I have a Level 13 bard spellsinger with the full dragonmarks. He is a blast to play, he fulfills the role of cleric quite well, along with the CC and party buffs of a maxed out spellsinger. But I digress.

Back to the discussion, the method to do this is the prereq's. This is my thought on the dragonmark heir PrC: your build is centered on it. Your character should be focused on it.

Would your ranger really be wililng to spend 24 AP's (16 for prereq's and 8 for PrC enh) and an extra feat (empower healing) to get mass heals? seems like a costly investment, but if you wanted to I would argue you deserve mass heal, you are sacrificing a large investment to concentrate on your dragonmarks. I know my ranger is pretty feat and AP starved...

[Thrudh]

True... the costs probably balance it out... Those are some very expensive pre-reqs...

No idea what the devs plan to do for this PrE, but I'm not sure if I'd rather have what you suggested for the very high cost, or maybe some less powerful benefits, but easier to afford on my ranger.

Heck, I was just hoping for a couple extra Dragonmarks uses... Now you got me thinking about mass cures.... :)

[Spectralist]

Id rather it let me cast Greater Restoration, or at least Restoration. I'd love to be able to get rid of negative levels.

[Thrudh]

Id rather it let me cast Greater Restoration, or at least Restoration. I'd love to be able to get rid of negative levels.

Oohh... I'd go for that too....

[Deathseeker]

I think your concept is good, but I think you are making it a little overpowered. On a non-cleric, this is just an overwhelming amount of healing.

I'd suggest the mass part is over the top.

Maybe give level 1 lesser restore, level 2 restore, and level 3 raise dead. Then if you think that's not good enough for the cost, lower your prereqs a bit.

3 additional uses of each and full restoration capability is a very massive increase in power. I'd stop there.

[Cadaia]

You forgot to make Dragonmark Heir I a requirement for II and II for III. I think.

[Uska]

hmm seems a bit much to me and there are other dragonmarks besides the halfling one but only one other has much use to it really

[Strykersz]

Maybe Eladrin takes a look on friday and makes a last minute decision on which preview to post (like he has nothing better to do than peruse the forums :rolleyes:)

El - show us some halfling love!

DMH isn't being released in mod 9 and won't be previewed for a long, long, long time.

[Delacroix21]

Actually the real PnP dragonmark heir is better.

1st tier bonus feat (probably be +1 uses of marks)

2nd tier Mass Heal once a day (+4 times from enhancements to 5)

3rd tier +1 Mass Heals a day (hopefully another +2 to uses)


I DO NOT want our heals being replaced by mass versions, I just want the EXTRA mass heal, which with enhancements is 5 extra heals. If they simply replace heal with Mass I will be really upset as the whole reason MOST halflings took this was for soloing not for being a healbot (no offense to those who are!). =)

[sephiroth1084]

I'd rather see a diversification of possibilities, using the existing abilities in other ways that aren't necessarily strictly better, rather than increasing the power directly. Sub Heal for a Raise Dead? That seems reasonable, if a little weak perhaps. Maybe a Restoration. Mass Heal should not make its way into this in any form.

[RioRussell]

I'd rather see a diversification of possibilities, using the existing abilities in other ways that aren't necessarily strictly better, rather than increasing the power directly. Sub Heal for a Raise Dead? That seems reasonable, if a little weak perhaps. Maybe a Restoration. Mass Heal should not make its way into this in any form.

I would argue that the presitge enhancements that have been previewed have seemed to be the opposite of what you are proposing... Instead of diversifying the character, they reward those that invest the time to focus their character. Want a defensive paladin? Defender of Siberys is the enhancement for you... Raw DPS? frenzied beserker is your route.

I think by that logic I can make a philosophical case that the dragonmark heir PrC should not be benefical to those that 'splashed' the halfling dragonmark, but rather those whose builds are focused on it. A higher prerequisite cost with a greater reward (mass healing) seems like the best answer.

...and it should change my last name to d'Jorasco. my one glaring error when I made him, but not worth rerolling to fix it.

[RioRussell]

DMH isn't being released in mod 9 and won't be previewed for a long, long, long time.

I know, this thread was created before they announced the end of the previews that would make their way into mod 9.

Oh well, time to put on my big-boy pants and get back into the shroud...

[Brigadoom]

I would love to be able to substitute a heal for blade barrier :)

[Favis]

Actually the real PnP dragonmark heir is better.

1st tier bonus feat (probably be +1 uses of marks)

2nd tier Mass Heal once a day (+4 times from enhancements to 5)

3rd tier +1 Mass Heals a day (hopefully another +2 to uses)


I DO NOT want our heals being replaced by mass versions, I just want the EXTRA mass heal, which with enhancements is 5 extra heals.
...

Basicaly agree about this