PDA

View Full Version : Wounding vs DPS: Aussircaex's Valley



Kintro
01-29-2009, 02:03 PM
It took us about 10 seconds to realise the giants here die much faster to wounding than to DPS including flaming burst of greater giant bane or greensteel.

But I'm a big bad barbarian grrr, I shouldn't have to wound something to death. So, I started searching for a solution - a way to kill those giants faster through DPS than with a +1 wounding dagger. I visited the trainer and took every +str enhancement, three levels of dwarven tactics and one level of fighter improved stunning blow. I hunted the auction house and the weapon vendor and finally got myself a +1 thundering maul of weighted 5%.

Now I had the tools I could do some experimenting, I went to the valley and isolated a Frost Giant Raider. Turned on power attack, Raged, drank a rage pot, drank a haste pot and engaged. It took two stuns to kill this one giant (9 seconds of waiting for cooldown between stuns), 19 crits and some glancing blows so round up to 20. For those interested in the hp total on these giants:

Damage: 1d10 + 39
Crit mult: x3
Thundering: 2d8

Average Damage: 44 + 6 (bloodstone) * 3 = 150 physical + 8 thundering = 158 damage per swing.

158 * 20 = ~3160hp

Then I took out a wounding greataxe and repeated, it died in 21 swings. A victory for DPS over wounding! (if you discount the 9 seconds waiting to restun the giant or the chance it'd make the save).

Then I offhanded a weighted 5% lightmace and put a puncturing heavy pick in my main hand, stunned the giant and killed it in 4 hits completely ruining my experiment.

So to sum up .... I was bored.

Oh and err ... use wounders unless you can reliably stun, then use puncturers ... or just use a WoP if you can ... which I guess we figured out 10 seconds after we entered the area.

rimble
01-29-2009, 02:06 PM
I've been wondering if Weighted would catch on more...as far as I know there is no roll to resist it, if everyone waded in with 5% Weighted, everything should be Stunned within a round or two, not even worrying about Stunning blow, and then it should fall quickly.

Beherit_Baphomar
01-29-2009, 02:09 PM
LOL..nice post.

Kintro
01-29-2009, 02:49 PM
I've been wondering if Weighted would catch on more...as far as I know there is no roll to resist it, if everyone waded in with 5% Weighted, everything should be Stunned within a round or two, not even worrying about Stunning blow, and then it should fall quickly.

Yep you're right, it has the same success rate as Vorpal and isn't subject to deathward type immunities. The problem then is you have to beat them down with what are effectively level 1-4 weapons. Even if they are critting every hit most things worth stunning will recover before they die. Unless you have one person bring a puncturer and finish off everything that's stunned.

Maybe if I could make a greensteel weapon with 5% weighted on it (3rd tier or dual shard effect) it'd be used more.

Angelus_dead
01-29-2009, 02:57 PM
I visited the trainer and took every +str enhancement, three levels of dwarven tactics and one level of fighter improved stunning blow. I hunted the auction house and the weapon vendor and finally got myself a +1 thundering maul of weighted 5%.
That sounds exactly like what I did when Shroud first came out. I went in on barb and hit a mob with a weighted Maul, then started auto-critting him for 190 each... I had time to re-stun him 4 times before he eventually died.

Kintro
01-29-2009, 06:32 PM
That sounds exactly like what I did when Shroud first came out. I went in on barb and hit a mob with a weighted Maul, then started auto-critting him for 190 each... I had time to re-stun him 4 times before he eventually died.

I was wondering if I'd have more luck with a pos-pos-pos heavy pick in the main hand:

Damage: 1d8 + 28
Crit mult: x4
Holy: 2d6
Good Burst: 5d6
Good Blast: 4d6


Average Damage (main hand): 32 + 6 (bloodstone) * 4 = 152 physical + 33 good = 185
Average Damage (off hand w/ +1 light mace 1d6+1x2): 20 + 6 * 2 = 52
Total: 237

3160/237 = 13-14 swings (w/ GTWF)

Average Damage (off hand w/ Hammer of the Leaden Clouds 1d8+4x3, -2 stun DC): 24 + 6 * 3 = 90 physical + 8 sonic = 98
Total = 98 + 185 = 283

3160/283 = 11-12 swings (w/ GTWF)

Average Damage (off hand w/ PPP H Pick, -10 stun DC): 24 + 6 * 4 = 120 physical + 33 good = 153
Total = 153 + 185 = 338

3160/338 = 9-10 swings (w/ GTWF)

On the face of it thats quite an improvement on the maul, especially if you can afford to lose the weighted item! Until you realise with GTWF you could use two +1 wounding daggers and drop them in 10 swings.

Amabel
01-29-2009, 06:34 PM
The sad part is, stunning blow works better with stat damage than DPS too.

Angelus_dead
01-29-2009, 06:37 PM
I was wondering if I'd have more luck with a pos-pos-pos heavy pick in the main hand:
Using DPS weapons can be justified if you get a good benefit from the defense they bring. For example if they're Radiance rapiers with +4 AC, then it's possible (for some characters) that the reduced damage you suffer will outweigh the longer time you need to slay the monster.

Kintro
01-29-2009, 07:21 PM
The sad part is, stunning blow works better with stat damage than DPS too.

Yep, under ideal circumstances (crit every hit, x4 bursting/blasting weap in both hands) DPS can't beat plain wounding under normal circumstances let alone WoP in the same ideal circumstances. At least in this quest.

Noctus
01-29-2009, 09:00 PM
Nice research.

I had a feeling that this would be the result, but i didnt have the numbers. I find that saddening. Even a maxed DPS-Build is better of using wounders.


Please get the HP/CON ratio back on track.