Need some experienced caster feedback

[WorldTraveler]

I ran with a drow 13 ranger/2 monk/1 rogue build that was high dex wis weapon finesse. It
was very much based on Geonis's build but I dropped one bonus in dex starting to use the
extra points to raise up con further. I've had a lot of fun running it and it performs
very well, doing great dps and with the first serious AC I've managed to achieve (though
that'll drop 2 thanks to the tempest nerf).

As a challenge out of boredom, I started out from true scratch on a different server, and
during the fun or rerunning the new quests (yes, I'm about a year and a half player who
loves the new Korthos Island stuff and runs it even though I can skip it), I decided to
really try and challenge myself. I used the preplanned build it rated as the hardest to
solo, the necromancer wizard. This was a double challenge in a way, as I never played a
caster type before as well. I fully expected to die in many varied and interesting ways.
Of course I wasn't disappointed, as I did at first. Then I started figuring out how to
start using the wizard's most important weapon, intelligence. I started training mobs
into chokepoints, burning hands on them, and well, to make a long story short, I had a
ball and learned a lot about playing a squishy caster. I got her off the island and to
level three solo only with no possible twink. OK, the new beginner items are definitely
uber twink for the level range in my opinion, but it's available under the same rules
many hardcore permadeathers follow, so for someone who isn't I figure it's all good.

At any rate, I was inspired to attempt a build that occured to me in which essentially, I
replaced the 13 ranger levels of ranger/monk idea with wizard. I knew that if any class
benefitted the least from multiclassing, it was casters in general, but I also browsed
the forums and found many builds that splash three levels and still profess to be mostly
effective wizard builds even at end game, most notably, those that use rogue for trap
and lock skills. I played with the numbers for starting stats for a drow, as for a
wizard that planned to use finnesse dex and int, there is no race with cheaper peak scores
for them. I discovered that I could end with a dex score only two pluses below the
ranger/monk and only one wisdom bonus down. This surprised me as the int remains the main
boosted stat ending in a 32 if later a +3 int tome is eaten. An exceptional int item
could boost that potential to 34 and free up 6 action points.

But I did mention how I've never made a caster before, right? So let's have it then. I
believe that as early as I could use divine power clickies, I could even melee decent at
mid levels. If the +4 dex, +4 str, and +4 con of Tenser's Transformation stacks with
item score enhancements, then when I can cast it, I could really gain a nice attack and
defense boost. This is one of several question though that I also have. Does it? Tell
me what you think. I wanted fairly high rogue skills to be at least a decent trap caster
if nothing else. But how does it fare as a wizard? Is spell pen gonna be too low to be
useful at end levels? I know the combat expertise may seem strange since casting turns it
off, but then it isn't meant on a build with half BAB to be on when not divine powered or
Tensered. The idea had appeal to me for solo ability too. I included a lot of the details
including chosen spells since these would reflect my choices if I could not afford to buy
everything and scribe it. That also shows what understanding I have of "useful spells".
Feel free to suggest better ideas. This is my first build posted. Explanation and
reasons are what I'm after. Whether flames or not, if it has reasons and breakdown of why,
it will be studied scrupulously. Thank you for the help. Sorry about the length. Note,
none of the +6 items or any gear are included as this part of the planner has never worked
properly that I could figure out.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 16 Lawful Good Drow Female
(1 Monk \ 2 Rogue \ 13 Wizard)
Hit Points: 162
Spell Points: 874
BAB: 7\7\12
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 15
Will: 13

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16) (Level 16)
Strength 9 10 10
Dexterity 16 19 22
Constitution 12 14 14
Intelligence 17 21 24
Wisdom 14 16 16
Charisma 11 12 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 16

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16) (Level 16)
Balance 8 13 13
Bluff 2 2 2
Concentration 3 19 19
Diplomacy 5 11 11
Disable Device 8 23 23
Haggle 1 1 1
Heal 5 5 5
Hide 4 6 6
Intimidate 1 1 1
Jump 3 3 3
Listen 3 3 5
Move Silently 8 10 10
Open Lock 8 17 17
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 4 7 7
Search 8 21 23
Spot 3 3 5
Swim 0 0 0
Tumble 8 13 13
Use Magic Device 5 20 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Spell (1): Burning Hands
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Spell (1): Mage Armor
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement
Spell (1): Shield
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Spell (1): Chill Touch
Spell (1): Summon Monster I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (2): Command Undead
Spell (2): Hypnotic Pattern


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Touch of Idiocy
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (3): Ray of Exhaustion
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+3)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Protection From Energy
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Enervation
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Contagion
Spell (4): Phantasmal Killer


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (5): Cone of Cold
Spell (5): Waves of Fatigue
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Spell (5): Dismissal
Spell (5): Mind Fog


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Spell (6): Tenser's Transformation
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Spell (6): Acid Fog
Spell (6): Create Undead


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Spell (7): Waves of Exhaustion
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III

[Lucian_Navarro]

Disclosure (My input is purely speculation)

With the addition of PrE's is it wise to take 18 levels in a main class to get the Teir 3 Enhancements, unless that does not interest you.

By choosing Rogue or Monk it basically tells me you desire the Class Restricted Evasion Feat.

Since you'll have a high intelligence you will most likely desire high value skills such as UMD in which a Rogue would be ideal.

Since your armor will either be Light or Nothing, a Monk's AC is better suited coupled with thier ability for unarmed combat.

My recent experience with the higher level quests, Spell Penetration items and enhancements are vital unless you plan to affect them with AoE spells or those that automatically bypass Spell Resistance and Saves (Polar Ray). So the goal would be as close to 20th for you main class as possible.

Tensers Transformation has many limiting factors which is why Madstone Rage is superior.


With all of these factors I would suggest 18th Wizard / 2nd Monk or 2nd Rogue

ZEIRA

[WorldTraveler]

Thank you for the feedback. I knew that 18 would get tier three of the pre, but I had the
same issue with this idea as I had with my ranger/monk. I wanted UMD in both as a class
skill and evasion was also a must. But the monk wisdome AC bonus and feat extra also was
a part of it. Had I known that rangers get evasion at 9, I might've slimmed down the
ranger/monk build to 18/1/1 and suffered without evasion to around level 11. This is not
an option for the wizard. I either give up evasion, something I'm not willing to do with
a squishy caster, give up the monk AC bonus which is an important part of potentially
gaining an AC with proper gear that actually stays above the hit on a two worthlessness
threshold, or give up on UMD and all the trap skills I wanted. She can take the tier two
of them and will have level nine spells at 20 and that's enough for me. The main concern
I had was that pushing the combat aspect of war wizard even if only for three levels of
loss not undercut the power as a wizard. That is one of the reasons I didn't go down the
beaten path of warforged. An inherent spell failure chance that only certain rare raid
gear and or a commitment of action points could lessen or eliminate definitely tilts the
teter totter too far in the war direction for me. Plus, their only boosted stat is not
the important int or dex scores that a drow has both. The damage reduction and immunities
are nice, but I see them go down just as fast as other casters when aggro turns too hot.
So without really having any experience to reference, I imagine all wizards and sorcerers
must learn to rely on their kill it quick and/or diplomacy abilities anyway.

I have some questions though. The +4 con from Madstone stacks on top of your +6 from item
and even second Madstone effect. This tells me it is of a different type bonus than the
items (enchanted bonus I think, which is why it doesn't stack with the spells like bears
endurance). But what type of bonus is the +4 to str, dex, and con given by the Tenser's
Transformation spell? If it doesn't stack, it's a near worthless spell that amounts to
nothing more than a clickie of divine power or a Madstone on demand effect. If it does,
then it benefits both finesse fighting casters and strength based equally while giving the
same +4 con boost and full BAB you'd get from Madstone.

Also, the enhancement lines lineage of deadly this or that versus lineage of the same
effect the critical multiplier or the percentage chance of a critical spell hit. My
question is given that the description on the one that says increases crit multiplier from
1 to 1.25, does this mean that without any of that line taken, the chance to crit is
meaningless since even if you do, it does one times the normal damage? In other words, is
it pointless to take the other line, increasing chance of crit without taking at least
some of the other? The enhancements are not fixed, and may change over time with better
understanding of the effects.

And does anyone know all the forms of stacking spell penetration there are? I assumed the
feats spell penetration and greater spell penetration stack with item given ones. Are there
others?

[Lucian_Navarro]

Madstone and Tensers are very different.

Tensers give you weapon proficiencies so you can use weapons that you normally are unable to when this is active unlike Madstone. Madstone stacks with Enchantment Bonuses, so active it will grant +8 STR and +10 CON (Provided you wear +6 items). The first added bonus is that you can use Arcane Rage too, this brings your overall bonuses to +10 STR and +12 CON. The second added feature is that if you are struck in combat while wearing your Madstone boots, another application is applied (For a total of two Madstone Rages). Giving you a combined bonus of +12 STR and +16 CON.

You could cast Tenser's and while wearing the boots and hope to get hit so Madstone Rage gets cast upon you.
Tenser's is only worth it while you do not have the Madstone Boots.

The Lines work like this;
One will increase basic damage.
One will increase the chance of a critical.
One will increase the multiplier if a critical is acheived.

I do not know the best combinations for Spell Penetration as my character went the route of an Eldritch Knight. At 20th level she will be able to hit 30 STR and 30 CON.

ZEIRA