Barb w/ fighter splash for mod 9

[Asketes]

I'm interested in creating a 2wf Barb with either 2 or 4 lvls of fighter.. I am trying to find out, if i take 4 lvl of fighter, i would miss out on when mod 9 comes and the lvl cap raises to 20.

As it is right now, aside from critical rage II, the Barb really gets maxed out on enhancements for DPS at lvl 12. What will the new module bring to barb at lvls 18 and 20? Should i splash 2 or 4 lvls fighter into the mix.. Not sure if anything super uber will come for lvl 20.


Last question, superior 2wf, the successor to Greater 2wf, how much dex will that require?

Thanks for the help guys!

-Asketes
Khyber Realm
Barb12/Ranger2/Fighter2

[Riekan]

It appears at this time that the only way to acquire STWF is going to be 18 levels of Ranger. The Tempest III enhancement is the only place the Devs have talked about having any abilities that will act like STWF.

[gamblerjoe]

since every class is going to get 3 prestiges, you may want to wait for the other 2 to see if they are good for u. u might also want to wait to see what the capstone is.

u will probably want to go 2 ftr levels unless the capstone is really good. also i have a feeling occult slayer will be really good for any barb. it will likely have will save bonuses at t1 and 2, and immunities to certain mind effecting spells at t3.

[Nick_RC]

Go 16 Barb till mod is released. See if the capstone is really worth the 2 feats +1 str tactics line and5x day haste boost. Then make the decision.

In planning out my own barbarians feat line i dont knw if 2 Weapon fighting wf can afford NOT to take 2 lvls of fighter.

2wf
I2wf
G2wf
PA
I Crit
Cleave

= Your core 6.

Stunning blow
Khopesh
Toughness
Oversize


= Nearly essential Secondary 4.

Its the way you play ur barb i guess. I use stunning blow alot and find it amazing. I HAVE to have toughness to open up the cheaper enhancements as Hp equals ur ability to do dumb stuff. Khopesh nets in 10% more DPS than hvy picks and i refuse to use rapiers for dps on a barbarian. So for me the 2 lvls of fighter are mandatory regardless of the capstone. Oversize will likely be the one that misses out...unless im whiffing alot endgame because of all the PA enhancements. Im so glad they made cleave a necessary feat for barbarians:rolleyes: now we have SOOOO much diversity!

[Gunga]

This build is so Mod 6.

[Asketes]

Well thanks for the help thus far.

I started a character and went 2 fighter and the rest barbarian. When mod 9 comes out i'll check the capstone on the barbarian class. I was unaware of capstones, as such I hope that i didn't just make a mistake by eating 3 +2 tomes on my new lvl 6. hehe hope 2fighter/18 barb still does well.

I'll get frenzy II which is good. I need to look up the occult thing you were talking about!

[Gryphton]

You will miss out on extra str and extra con while raging, strait from PnP. Seems like the only capstone is just the normal level 20 PnP stuff, I don't re-call seeing anything extra like the rest of the classes.

[Asketes]

i'm sorry what is PnP?

i only have one lvl 16 toon. he's 12barb 2fighter 2ranger.. so i've never got a capstone or whatever it is..

care to enlighten me a bit?

thanks again

[BlackSteel]

PnP stands for Pen and Paper, Dungeons and Dragons, what this game is supposed the be based on.

capstones dont exist in PnP, altho some classes do give abilities on their last level, they're not labeled capstones, and not nearly as powerful as the previews we've seen so far.

capstones are not currently in the game, but are in the works for the next module in a month or two. to see these, just click the dev tracker in the top corner, and see where most of the dev comments are. This will track you down to the ones that have been previewed so far.

[Asketes]

ahh i know pen and paper. thx for the clarification on "pnp"


Well hopefully i didn't just eat 3 +2 tomes and have a sweet barb capstone come out that i'll be ineligilble for!

I was trying to look up what the occult slayer, gamblerjoe referred to. But seeing as I am ******** at finding things at forums. anyone mind directing me, or giving a quick expose on them?

Thanks to everyone for the info!

Lots of help

[Gratch]

Last question, superior 2wf, the successor to Greater 2wf, how much dex will that require?

Back at Mod 6, Superior TWF was going to be a BAB15, Dex 19 feat. All the low dex rangers cried and cried so the devs noted it would probably appear in a ranger PrE. Now at Mod 9 the situation appears reversed. I don't know that I'd plan a current build for it though... there's always the hope of a +3/4 tome and your level 20 attribute point to bump base dex.



The additional attacks gained at tier III are identical to what we originally had planned for (the not-in-the-game) Superior Two Weapon Fighting.

That doesn't preclude it from being in the game come Mod 9 or beyond. It just currently is "not-in-the-game". Probably depends on testing/balance/player reaction and how nicely we make a case if it is needed as a feat.

[BlackSteel]

as of now, both occult slayer and ravager are unknown PRE's for the barb class. All the dev's from this game have released are the names. You can look up what the effects are in PnP, but that doesnt mean there will be a 100% reproduction. Take for example frenzied Berzerker, our reproduction of it while similar, loses some of its damage juice by not having further iterations of power attack.



I was really really really looking foward to doing 44 extra damage from Power Attack alone. Instead we got 6d6 viscous damage.

[Asketes]

Still,

An extra 6d6 damage PER HIT, while taking a minuscule 2d3 per hit? That's ridiculous damage out put man.

Plus "magical effects" to glancing blows on both my weapons. (whatever that is, I assume it possibly means like random chance to do random elemental damage) Anyone care to take a guess.

The only thing that bothers me, is that I have to waste precious AP on getting the Action Boost: Damage Boost I-IV

I don't use those, I concentrate all my AP on rage and stat increasements. That AND I have to change from my beloved stunning blow to cleave, which in my opinion is not nearly as good. I'd rather stun and auto-crit one mob, then do a little damage to 3 or 4 around. (with +2 to my DC AND +15/16 to my rage/FrenzyIII, stunning blow is gonna be wicked hot!!!)

On that note, I wonder what the stats are on Supreme Cleave. ANYONE have ideas on that one?

I did just read that Supreme Cleave has just a 1 Second CD, now that may make me see Cleave in new Light. When my up and coming LVL 7 hits LVL 8, ill take my power atk and swap out my Stunning Blow for Cleave. I'll see how excited I can make myself for something three times as great (or horrible hehe) and a 1 sec CD!

Time is the storybook of the world, it shall tell!

Let's hear some responses

[BlackSteel]

Plus "magical effects" to glancing blows on both my weapons. (whatever that is, I assume it possibly means like random chance to do random elemental damage) Anyone care to take a guess.



magical effects would be the holy damage on your weapon, or the acid burst, stuff like that. The chance for it to go off will be dependent on how many ranks you have of any of these: THF feats, Kensai enhancements, Frenzy B enhancements, or WF weapon aptitude.

[Asketes]

But that means that it is the weapon crit that controls it, and the weapon enhancement. It seems from reading it, that there is something else to the "magical effects".. otherwise they would not even put it in the description, as we already know what holy burst is etc..

Does that make sense?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

But that means that it is the weapon crit that controls it, and the weapon enhancement. It seems from reading it, that there is something else to the "magical effects".. otherwise they would not even put it in the description, as we already know what holy burst is etc..

Does that make sense?

You are misunderstanding.

The magical effects is just the chance that the weapon's effects (frost, holy, vorpal, etc) will be applied on glancing blows. That was said explicitly by a dev somewhere in this thread.

[Asketes]

I see.

I was under the impression a hit, whether it be glancing or direct, always applied the weapons enhancements.

Thanks for clearing that one up to me

[Asketes]

We shall see what other higher lvl add-ons are attached to Barb..


Any ideas anyone?

[mgoldb2]

We shall see what other higher lvl add-ons are attached to Barb..


Any ideas anyone?

It it highly likely barbs will get the following stuff at level 17-20 not including new enhancements.

Level 17: +1 DR, Tireless Rage (you no longer get fatigue when rage runs out)
Level 18: Trap Sence +6
Level 19: Nothing
Level 20: Number of Rages +1, Number of improve uncanny Dodge +1, DR +1, Mighty Rage (rage now gives you +8 str and con and +4 will save before enhancements)

[Asketes]

Mighty Rage is something to look forward to.

I already dumped some tomes into my 18barb 2 fighter, so I am rationalizing that 2str/2con isn't going to be a huge difference, because i don't think it really will be. Although i am sure not many people would blatantly turn the stat boost down for free.

One thing that is enthusing, is that no matter how long, or mighty the rage gets, the fatigue stays at just one minute.
if we were to get Tireless rage, WOW.... Although I doubt that will be implemented.

[Vengenance]

Go 16 Barb till mod is released. See if the capstone is really worth the 2 feats +1 str tactics line and5x day haste boost. Then make the decision.

In planning out my own barbarians feat line i dont knw if 2 Weapon fighting wf can afford NOT to take 2 lvls of fighter.

2wf
I2wf
G2wf
PA
I Crit
Cleave

= Your core 6.

Stunning blow
Khopesh
Toughness
Oversize


= Nearly essential Secondary 4.

Its the way you play ur barb i guess. I use stunning blow alot and find it amazing. I HAVE to have toughness to open up the cheaper enhancements as Hp equals ur ability to do dumb stuff. Khopesh nets in 10% more DPS than hvy picks and i refuse to use rapiers for dps on a barbarian. So for me the 2 lvls of fighter are mandatory regardless of the capstone. Oversize will likely be the one that misses out...unless im whiffing alot endgame because of all the PA enhancements. Im so glad they made cleave a necessary feat for barbarians:rolleyes: now we have SOOOO much diversity!

I agree Barb straight to 16 is the safe play presently, and the importance of feats can just go down to personal choice. A good nerf proof barb at present would be to go straight 16 and start with at least 15 dex to allow you to go twf if you choose to later in the game.

As far as feats go, I place Stunning Blow ahead of Cleave, Khopesh is a nice to have but not necessary, toughness (you already have 500 hitpoints and after you craft a Shroud HP item who cares), Oversize (not necessary especially with Bards, GH, +2 to hit granted from spectral glooves or ring from hound), and even improved crit isn't essential once you have a mineral II weapon.

Depending on capstone, taking 2 levels of rogue for evasion may prove to be taking two levels of fighter.

[icculus]

I'm interested in creating a 2wf Barb with either 2 or 4 lvls of fighter.. I am trying to find out, if i take 4 lvl of fighter, i would miss out on when mod 9 comes and the lvl cap raises to 20.

As it is right now, aside from critical rage II, the Barb really gets maxed out on enhancements for DPS at lvl 12. What will the new module bring to barb at lvls 18 and 20? Should i splash 2 or 4 lvls fighter into the mix.. Not sure if anything super uber will come for lvl 20.


Last question, superior 2wf, the successor to Greater 2wf, how much dex will that require?

Thanks for the help guys!

-Asketes
Khyber Realm
Barb12/Ranger2/Fighter2


sTWF = DEX19

Some other things to consider... as mentioned Barb gets good class benefits right through Barb20, although WF do not need Tireless Rage, Trap Sense, DR and especially Might Rage all benefit pure Barbs. Further while the current Critical Rage is Barb11/Barb14 the new Barb PrE will be Barb6/12/18 so any more than Ftr2 prevents tier3 in those; however, it is worth keeping in mind that WF get Juggernaut which unfortuantely counts as their Barbarian PrE - so it maybe better to either look at a different race if you want to be a Barb or a different class if you want to be WF.

[Girevik]

...Plus "magical effects" to glancing blows on both my weapons.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but that doesn't make any sense to me. I was under the impression that only two-handed weapons generated glancing blows, therefore there would be no chance of any magical effects from "both" of your weapons when fighting with a two-weapon style.

Is there some way of generating a glancing blow with two-weapon fighting?

[Asketes]

no i just can't read XD

[Lorien_the_First_One]

One thing that is enthusing, is that no matter how long, or mighty the rage gets, the fatigue stays at just one minute.
if we were to get Tireless rage, WOW.... Although I doubt that will be implemented.

Why wouldn't it, its part of the rules. Plus its not game breaking, the WF have it already.

[Asketes]

how does warforged have tireless rage?

or do you mean warforged barbs?

If so i never knew that.


Since when does this game follow rule verbatim?

[Nick_RC]

I agree Barb straight to 16 is the safe play presently, and the importance of feats can just go down to personal choice. A good nerf proof barb at present would be to go straight 16 and start with at least 15 dex to allow you to go twf if you choose to later in the game.

As far as feats go, I place Stunning Blow ahead of Cleave, Khopesh is a nice to have but not necessary, toughness (you already have 500 hitpoints and after you craft a Shroud HP item who cares), Oversize (not necessary especially with Bards, GH, +2 to hit granted from spectral glooves or ring from hound), and even improved crit isn't essential once you have a mineral II weapon.

Depending on capstone, taking 2 levels of rogue for evasion may prove to be taking two levels of fighter.

Cleave is a Feat requirement for Frenzied Bezerker;) I wish it wasnt because with such few feats all barbs are gonna look pretty much the same.

If ur playing a FB ur playing for dps so khopesh is necessary in my opinion anyway. Stunning blow's a must, and as a warforged with max PA enhancements(one of the main reasons to go this race) without oversize ur looking at -15 to hit. Oversize is probably the one il leave out but it all depends on the mobs ac at cap.

Toughness has and always will be a big debate. I personally like the hit points because it lets me go further and longer without receiving a heal. I can completely see why alot of people see it as unnecessary however.

As too improved crit...well to be honest Lightning strike is the dps option (excluding tri fire/ice on susceptible targets) for anything with dr17 or less. Again my Rationale is if ur playing dps go the dps route. Min 2s a great overall weapon but often isnt the DPS option. Id say for the starting out barb GO mineral 2 tho as its a great coverall weapon and if u want to further invest go lightning 2 after that, and the tri fire/ice after that.

So much of it is hypothetical atm as you pointed out Steve, until we know the capstone, mobs ac etc etc its hard to say one way or the other. I echo what Veng says tho about the safe bet being 16 barb at present cap with the necessary dex too fill out 2wf if needed.

N

[mgoldb2]

if we were to get Tireless rage, WOW.... Although I doubt that will be implemented.

I see no reason they would not implemented it. Most barbs don't spend much time fatigue anyway. just pop one lesser restore potion and it gone.

[Asketes]

I merely meant that in a fight between just me and a mob, it can be critical (if there is a gimpy or no healer present) that I must switch my str guards to ceaseless toil manacles, activate them, switch back to str gloves, hit rage and then start swinging again.. that's like 2-4 seconds im getting wacked and not wacking back!

Now i am not complaining about the current system one bit. every plus may or may not have a drawback. Tireless rage would just be something very interesting to invest in, in my opinion!

Either way i'm, thus far, impressed and enjoy playing barb.

Oh yeah, what is AC again. hehe


----

NICK:

tri fire or tri ice?

Why do you say those as a step up from lighting II?
Aren't most raid bosses, trash immune or highly resistant to that type of elemental damage?

Maybe i misunderstand.

[Nick_RC]

NICK:

tri fire or tri ice?

Why do you say those as a step up from lighting II?
Aren't most raid bosses, trash immune or highly resistant to that type of elemental damage?

Maybe i misunderstand.

Sry should have clarified. Tri Fire and Tri Ice on fire and ice vulnerable targets ( think frost giants for fire and final room of enter the kobold for ice) will give substantial dps increase over Twin lightning. Is it excessive? Worth the larges? Depends on what you have, and what that dps gain is worth to you. All the little +'s add up.

Similarly I have anti fire and ice Dragontouch docents coupled with anti fire and ice guard bracers. DPS is an artform that encompasses more than a weapon and is more difficult to master and requires more thought than just using w/p.

As to immunitites - yup most are thats why you have ur mineral 2's for dr 17+ and lightning 2's for those under that. The Tri Fire and Ice are luxuries if you think of it in terms of commodities.

Barbarians = DPS. And every little bit of DPS counts.

N

[Asketes]

I guess i see Min2's as just GS transmuters... aren't effective against raid bosses dr of 5..


i'd like to see more pos pos pos.. or pos shock shock...

Pos x3 (holy good burst good blast)
pos shock x2 (holy shock burst shock blast)

just my opinion though


OR vorpal GS FTW.. hehe

[Asketes]

What does everyone else think?

[Line-dog]

What does everyone else think?

My Barb was originally intended to be be 18Barb / 2Rogue. However, I'm not sure I will be able to resist the siren's call of 6 levels of fighter to get me 4 more feats and all of the fighter enhancements that opens up including Kensai I and +2 strength (always-on). With 12 levels of Barb I may already have enough rages/rest.