Air guard vs freezing ice guard. Worth the lgs?

[xberto]

So for a barbarian, crafting a HP item, is it worth it to spend the extra larges and craft something with ice guard vs an item with airguard? Were talking an additional 3 scales and 2 stones.

[tihocan]

If you want a cheap one, take earthgrab guard instead.
I'm still unsure about the value of air guard. I was convinced it did not stack with haste, but someone said it did... would love to know if someone tested it? (note: the trip effect definitely sucks, it does not proc often enough to be worth it)

[BlackSteel]

the AC portion of haste stacks on the gaurd item.

for what to craft, the clickies of haste are awesome, for a barbarian the tier 3 effect isnt so impressive tho. for a cheap damage tier 3, go triple water

[tihocan]

the AC portion of haste stacks on the gaurd item.
Thanks, that would make a lot of sense.

[MrCow]

I'm still unsure about the value of air guard. I was convinced it did not stack with haste, but someone said it did... would love to know if someone tested it?

I confirm what BlackSteel stated. The AC (as a dodge bonus) stacks between normal haste and air guard haste (being both effects are going at the same time and there is no overriding). The movement speed and attack speed boosts, being enhancement bonuses, won't stack with both types of haste going. I forget if the reflex portion stacks.


is it worth it to spend the extra larges and craft something with ice guard vs an item with airguard?

As Tihocan said earthgrab guard is the cheap hold n' auto-crit guard. Also, it is based on a reflex save which is universally the worst monster save in DDO.

However, if the effect you are going for requires air and/or water (sounds like an SP/CHA skill item) then you have to ask yourself if the time to get all those large ingredients is worth it. Air guard's trip, being a trip, is an STR or DEX check (whichever is higher) and goes off sparingly. A fair amount of things are immune or resistant to trip too. Freezing Ice is a fortitude save (the save that most melee monsters have a good amount of), but goes off with greater frequency and hits things that usually can't be earthgrabbed (as being frozen is not the same as being paralyzed).

If you have ample large ingredients then it might be worth getting. If you still have a lot of shroud items to go and still require ingredients then it is likely better to just pass.

[sephiroth1084]

If you want a cheap one, take earthgrab guard instead.
I'm still unsure about the value of air guard. I was convinced it did not stack with haste, but someone said it did... would love to know if someone tested it? (note: the trip effect definitely sucks, it does not proc often enough to be worth it)

What's the combo for earthgrab guard? I use this planner:
http://perfectweb.org/ddo/crafting/base_crafting.php

And either keep overlooking it, or it isn't there at all.

[MrCow]

What's the combo for earthgrab guard?

Earth/Earth/Earth on an accessory/item (not a weapon).

[Thrudh]

I have earthgrab on my barbarian's dragontouched armor, and it's pretty nice...

[Pallol_One-Eye]

If you want a guard item that seems to do "decent" damage and procs at what I have observed to be a better than 1% rate, go Salt Guard.

Yes it is a dual shard tier 3, but I have not seen anything, PvE or PvP save against the damage when it procs. I believe it is labeled as untyped, so not sure if a save even applies.

You get 75 HP damage +/- per tick for 4 ticks when it procs. The damage varies a bit from time to time. Shroud part 2 Monday night I saw it going off for 88 pts. Then in part 4 saw it going off for 72, so results will vary.

My opinion only here, thanks.

[tihocan]

What's the combo for earthgrab guard? I use this planner:
http://perfectweb.org/ddo/crafting/base_crafting.php

And either keep overlooking it, or it isn't there at all.
Like this (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/cgi-bin/shroud.cgi?item=belt&weapon=weapon&effects=earthgrab_guard_&groups=plus_10_hp,plus_15_hp,plus_20_hp&altar=3).

[sephiroth1084]

Thanks. In the crafting planner I posted the link to, E/E/E gives moderate good guard for some reason.

[Stoid]

nix that, my planner must be borked too

[Venar]

If you only need an HP item, and can pick any combo, you may want to aim for something more valuable then a guard.
I can think of 2 nice effect:

- Smoke 2 (fire/air) gives you perma-blur. Not a bad effect, and the Smoke 1 clicky is 2 charges of diplacement.

- Mineral 2 gives out, in addition to the 2 stoneskin clicks, Protection 5 and Heavy Fort, 2 effects that might just free up some nice equipement slots.
I see it like this: Trade your Minos Helm (heavy fort, +18 HP) for a Mineral 2 item (heavy Fort, Prot +5, + 45 HP, Stoneskin x2, +6 extra concentration)

[xberto]

Very good feedback. A learned a lot. So for my low AC, THF DPS, barbarian I think I'll go with the Airguard.

If Freezing Ice is a fortitude save then it would probable be the prefered guard of a W/P based character that would be beating down the Con, thus decreasing the Fort save. I'd get a polar ice clickie, which I'd probably never use, where as with the Airguard, I get a haste clickie. In my situation, it might still be better than the Airguard but not worth the cost.

The Earthgarb would be cool but I already have Stoneskin clickies and the con skill bonuses would be wasted. With the Airguard item you get +6 to balance and with the Iceguard item you get +4 to balance and +2 to jump and swim.

Sounds like the the Saltguard is good to but I have it on my armor so I don't need to waste larges on it.

So yea, all things considered, I reckon Ill stick with the Airguard. Thanks for all the input. 20th shround run today!!!!!

[tihocan]

Very good feedback. A learned a lot. So for my low AC, THF DPS, barbarian I think I'll go with the Airguard.

If Freezing Ice is a fortitude save then it would probable be the prefered guard of a W/P based character that would be beating down the Con, thus decreasing the Fort save. I'd get a polar ice clickie, which I'd probably never use, where as with the Airguard, I get a haste clickie. In my situation, it might still be better than the Airguard but not worth the cost.

The Earthgarb would be cool but I already have Stoneskin clickies and the con skill bonuses would be wasted. With the Airguard item you get +6 to balance and with the Iceguard item you get +4 to balance and +2 to jump and swim.

Sounds like the the Saltguard is good to but I have it on my armor so I don't need to waste larges on it.

So yea, all things considered, I reckon Ill stick with the Airguard. Thanks for all the input. 20th shround run today!!!!!
Just something: although it's not been confirmed 100% for salt guard, usually such special guards "stack" in the sense that they all get an independent chances. So an additional salt guard would not be a total waste.
As far as air guard is concerned, the trip effect itself sucks compared to earth guard, but the haste can be handy, so it's a good choice too.