about pvp

[Dummmmy]

i notice alot of people saying they bored cant wait for the next module and so on , was just wondering why havent turbine made pvp a little more inviting and a little more fun , so heres what i propose

Why cant we pvp for tokens which can be cashed in somewhere for items or plat or something , i played a deathmatch the other night guild on guild and we had a blast was very fun , would cure some of the boredom at least and might make another part of the game more inviting to some

feel free to add to this idea its just a thought and maybe who knows , people might actually find fun somewhere other then standing around in merida or refuge , id like to hear what sort of idea we can get to make it more inviting to players

[cdbd3rd]

/Hands Dummmmy a set of asbestos underwear. :)

Lot of fierce anti-pvp folks around here, lots of them will prolly have a little something to say about the idea of any more dev time going towards that waste of game bandwidth.

:D

[Dummmmy]

each to there own i say , i know alot of people who dont mind ducking into pvp and having some fun , lets face it there must have been alot of interest for it to appear in the first place

[cdbd3rd]

each to there own i say , i know alot of people who dont mind ducking into pvp and having some fun , lets face it there must have been alot of interest for it to appear in the first place

Oh, yeah, there was some. The debates that raged over it when it was first being discussed were legendary (although since lost to the Great Forum Purge).

/Ponders a moment.


Although it is possible the ranks have swayed, given the number of vets that have wandered off. :(

[Dummmmy]

my intent wasnt to start a should we have it or shouldnt we have , was simply asking for ideas to make it more inviting to those who do like it and maybe those who dont might wanna try it out to

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

the main concern over such things is if it would slow down the creation of "meaningful" content not surrounded by PvP. since people ***** and moan about there not being enough content, said people would probably also complain that htey are waisting there time on adding to PvP.

[bobbryan2]

The big complaint that most people had with PvP was that it shouldn't offer any in quest benefits...

That's what prizes would do.

Personally, I think a few prizes and incentives would be very welcome.... but that's just me.

[Dummmmy]

The big complaint that most people had with PvP was that it shouldn't offer any in quest benefits...

That's what prizes would do.

Personally, I think a few prizes and incentives would be very welcome.... but that's just me.

i dont mean anything along the line of game interupting prizes just something fun or useful in some way , would be nice i think

[branmakmuffin]

As opposed as I am personally to PvP (as much as some others are to more solo-friendly play), if the game had some sort of in-game benefit for PvP, OK by me. I say give them their own dedicated instance to PvP in, anything to keep them out of the Lobster (I don't know why it took me so long to realize that all I had to do was remove General from my chat inputs to silence their inane blather).

[Gorstag]

As I mainly play rogues, I'm not to keen on the pvp idea. Heavy fortification just ruins it for me. Sorry, but no thanks.

[Memnir]

I don't think that PvP, no matter what sort of in-game goodies could be cooked up, would keep people from feeling bored and restless. The heart of this game is questing, not PvP. And no matter what, there will be no even playing field in PvP unless it's redesigned from the ground up. And frankly, since the Devs never even bothered to get Leaderboards off the ground... well, it just shows that PvP is just not a development priority.

For my money, the Devs should put in more to keep us interested outside of quests - I agree with you there. Things like meaningful crafting, gear customization, importing the LotRO custom music system for bards - things of that nature. But PvP was included in DDO as an afterthought, and does not have strong support in the player base beyond a small minority. I don't see anything they could add to make it more appetizing to the general player that would not be overpowered and/or likely to be abused.

[branmakmuffin]

I don't think that PvP, no matter what sort of in-game goodies could be cooked up, would keep people from feeling bored and restless. The heart of this game is questing, not PvP. And no matter what, there will be no even playing field in PvP unless it's redesigned from the ground up. And frankly, since the Devs never even bothered to get Leaderboards off the ground... well, it just shows that PvP is just not a development priority.

For my money, the Devs should put in more to keep us interested outside of quests - I agree with you there. Things like meaningful crafting, gear customization, importing the LotRO custom music system for bards - things of that nature. But PvP was included in DDO as an afterthought, and does not have strong support in the player base beyond a small minority. I don't see anything they could add to make it more appetizing to the general player that would not be overpowered and/or likely to be abused.
That's why I say give PvPers a dedicated instanced place to PvP. It'd be like Manhattan in the movie Escape from New York. Tournament winner gets to be Snake Pliskin.

[bobbryan2]

I don't think that PvP, no matter what sort of in-game goodies could be cooked up, would keep people from feeling bored and restless. The heart of this game is questing, not PvP. And no matter what, there will be no even playing field in PvP unless it's redesigned from the ground up. And frankly, since the Devs never even bothered to get Leaderboards off the ground... well, it just shows that PvP is just not a development priority.

For my money, the Devs should put in more to keep us interested outside of quests - I agree with you there. Things like meaningful crafting, gear customization, importing the LotRO custom music system for bards - things of that nature. But PvP was included in DDO as an afterthought, and does not have strong support in the player base beyond a small minority. I don't see anything they could add to make it more appetizing to the general player that would not be overpowered and/or likely to be abused.


Well, they could add some fun stuff... like armor and weapon customization. Provided there were ways to get that by questing too.

I like there being multiple paths to achieve the same thing.

[Pierrick584]

Having more pvp content would just ruin the game imo, wana know why ?
#1 pvp reward would make people do pvp for loot, and not for fun, witch ruin the fun of pvp player
#2 if pvp get more important in the game, more people will QQ about "this class is stronger than this one" so the developer wont think anymore of a class RP wise, or what the class need realy, they'll think "we want to add this, but it will be too strong in pvp" of course they probably think a litle like that, but its def not their first priority
#3 there FFA area, some kind of pvp match that you can organise vs other team, honestly, what you want more ? some arena system rated on a ladder, battleground with honnor point and such ? honestly, your trying to make this game look like another one that i wont name..

personaly the only thing id add would be a duel option, those inn area are infested by high level that attack everything in sight, and queuing in an arena thing is too much trouble sometime when you just want to see how much you hit your friend for, though, its kinda not even a needed thing

[Kanamycin]

there are already dedicated instances for pvp , but not many people use them , the one way they could make pvp balanced is by rewarding team effort pvp and not the 1 on 1 whack-a-mole **** .

[DoctorWhofan]

no. I came here to party with people, not fight them. We have sparring, be happy with that.

Yes, the anti-PvP vets are still around. All the others left.

[Kanamycin]

i understand not wanting to pvp but that being said i know many of my family member who play wow would gladly switch over if there was a decent pvp system here , so yeah kinda selfish reason but im sick of having a wow account just to log in and say hi to my dad my brother and my cousins when i know ddo could do an awesome job of it.

p.s. pvp is one thing that keeps people playing those games , i know for a fact it would attract a large amount of gamers

[Donnie]

I really dont like pvp, however in this game ive had a lot of fun doing it. They could really improve it by maybe adding a couple already existing maps, and allowing us to specifically choose our teams. Little stuff.

Unfortunately, we have players in this game that only care about what they want, and what they think is best for the game despite what could really be beneficial to our population. No matter how it is presented, they will ***** and moan constantly about any mention of pvp. Meanwhile, thousands of gamers look at this game and say "no pvp? no way!" Sure pvp can attract some a-holes but it can also attract a more diversified crowd. It also helps keep people around by giving them other stuff to do. I cant even count how many people have told me they will never play an online RPG that doesnt have a good pvp system, becasue for many pvp is synonymous with online. Thats pretty much the bottom line.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

no. I came here to party with people, not fight them. We have sparring, be happy with that.

Yes, the anti-PvP vets are still around. All the others left.

Agreed. D&D is a group adventuring game, and that's where the focus should stay.

[Tin_Dragon]

i notice alot of people saying they bored cant wait for the next module and so on , was just wondering why havent turbine made pvp a little more inviting and a little more fun , so heres what i propose

Why cant we pvp for tokens which can be cashed in somewhere for items or plat or something , i played a deathmatch the other night guild on guild and we had a blast was very fun , would cure some of the boredom at least and might make another part of the game more inviting to some

feel free to add to this idea its just a thought and maybe who knows , people might actually find fun somewhere other then standing around in merida or refuge , id like to hear what sort of idea we can get to make it more inviting to players


Probably because D&D is NOT about PvP, also, there is a severe content shortage and PvP is a waste of time, it does not, nor SHOULD it reward a character in any way.

[Lymnus]

Wanna give 'em PvP?
Fine. Just don't force me to do it.

Wanna give 'em PvP prize?
Fine. Just don't make them things I can't get by playing through a quest.
Cosmetic? Cool. Go for it. If it's cool enough, I might even go in and kill some people.

[Deuce]

As long as its a prize/reward I could get from questing, then sure - otherwise no. D&D was never about killing other players unless you were running in an 'Evil' game and those didn't tend to last very long. I don't mind if someone wants to jump in to an instance and wack each other silly, but if there were exclusive rewards for that...no, just NO.

[bobbryan2]

Wanna give 'em PvP?
Fine. Just don't force me to do it.

Wanna give 'em PvP prize?
Fine. Just don't make them things I can't get by playing through a quest.
Cosmetic? Cool. Go for it. If it's cool enough, I might even go in and kill some people.

That's pretty much how I feel.

Prizes would be a great addition as long as they're not pvp-only.

[Kanamycin]

Yeah your right pnp was never about pvp but think about it, this game does not resemble pnp in alot of ways,
how many times in pnp did you run the same quest over and over? how many times did you kill the same storm
giant only to find him alive and well the next time you entered his castle?its a weakness in the medium.

So why not implement some sort of pvp that is meaningful? I personally dont pvp but I think it could bring in
alot more players , meaning alot more revenue, meaning alot more content!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Yeah your right pnp was never about pvp but think about it, this game does not resemble pnp in alot of ways,
how many times in pnp did you run the same quest over and over? how many times did you kill the same storm
giant only to find him alive and well the next time you entered his castle?its a weakness in the medium.

So why not implement some sort of pvp that is meaningful? I personally dont pvp but I think it could bring in
alot more players , meaning alot more revenue, meaning alot more content!

It would also bring the need to "balance" the classes so they could fight "fairly" in pvp. I don't want the classes balanced for pvp, I don't want the equipment balanced for pvp, I want the game designed for quests.

[Kanamycin]

why would you need to balance them ? you balance the team not the individual , you can choose your team then you can be balanced . am i wrong?

[lucien123]

why would you need to balance them ? you balance the team not the individual , you can choose your team then you can be balanced . am i wrong?

I think you're right. P&P, as we've heard very often, is not about fighting other people. It's about getting together a party of adventurers and killing, raiding, and looting your way through a dungeon.

The operative word there is party? Which is the same as a team, right?

So, would getting together a "team" of adventurers, pitting them against another team of adventurers, and letting them zerg fest their way through a dungeon to a prize of some sort (a chest full of ham, for instance) be such a bad thing? Killing the other team off COULD be optional, just like killing all the kobolds in WW is optional.

And instead of being ranked based on your kills, you could be ranked on hams collected. Further emphasizing the teamwork aspect of a possible pvp scenario.

Oh, and while the devs are at it, they could get rid of the kill counter in the pve quests. Or add a heals counter, and a spells spammed counter. Or better yet, just get rid of it.

Anyway, that's my two cp on how to add meaningful, team-based pvp that would lend itself to the P&P tradition.

I know, I know, you all hate it. :p

[Lorien_the_First_One]

why would you need to balance them ? you balance the team not the individual , you can choose your team then you can be balanced . am i wrong?

I'm not an MMO vet. DDO is the only one I've stuck with past the trial so this is a 2nd hand opinion but...

My rl friends who frequent other games, including both those who love PVP and those who hate it, tell me that making every class balanced against every class is paramount to a good PVP system and that it becomes required of the game to make PVP work. We saw a lame attempt by Turbine to balance PVP without messing the classes up when the neutered the spell list that can be used in PVP pits. I suspect that bringing PVP in a big way to DDO would result in more "nerf class X" type posts and dev responses (ya I know, don't we have enough of those already?)

[shadowking]

I really like PvP, i stick to this game mainly because of the combat system. DDO's combat system for me is so fun that it makes the horribly implemented PvP fun. It would be awesome to see some additions to PvP not just for my own personal enjoyment but for everyone. Whether you will actually PvP or not, getting a decent PvP system in DDO will attract more players and like others said that will equal more revenue and more content for everyone. If all you uber questers and zergers were able to survive mod 7 way of the monk that brought only 2 new high lvl quests I think you can survive a primarily PvP mod for the sake of getting new players.

As for PvP rewards like many of said don't make them to powerful. Make quests the primary source for loot and by far the best way to acquire, but atm I dont gain anything I actually lose plat paying for drinks and heals. It's still fun but would be nice to have not just more options for PvP but atleast a way to regain the costs you spent to PvP.

Finally about how people will complain how the classes should be balanced for PvP. PvP does not have any huge game changing benefit to it and as long as it stays that way there should be very few problems. Most people who like PvP have specific toons for it, they dont expect their rogue to pwn the clerics and arcanes. Besides no matter what there will unfortunatly be people complaining how they think a class should be balanced or nerfed.

[Kanamycin]

I'm not an MMO vet. DDO is the only one I've stuck with past the trial so this is a 2nd hand opinion but...

My rl friends who frequent other games, including both those who love PVP and those who hate it, tell me that making every class balanced against every class is paramount to a good PVP system and that it becomes required of the game to make PVP work. We saw a lame attempt by Turbine to balance PVP without messing the classes up when the neutered the spell list that can be used in PVP pits. I suspect that bringing PVP in a big way to DDO would result in more "nerf class X" type posts and dev responses (ya I know, don't we have enough of those already?)

I understand what your saying, but the key word to me is "other" mmo's, thing is ddo does not define itself by other mmo's standards because no other online game plays like ddo , the reason classes need to be balanced in say wow is because people (even though they are on a team) run off and fight individually , so there is a need to balance the classes .
ddo on the other hand is truly team based , think about it you can actually fight a worthy opponent not some pre-programmed A.I. , pvp has no blanket immunities. the only concern for me is rogues and heavy fort which can be worked around with gear or attribute points that could bypass it a certain percentage of the time.

if there was a piece of gear that could be obtained through pvp and it bypassed fortification would that upset players ? because it would have no bearing on actual instances .

p.s. sorry for the bad grammer : P

[krud]

I don't think it would be a good idea to give useful rewards or anything with meaningful monetary value for PvP. You know it would get abused, especially by plat farmers. Neat little stuff such as skin change tokens, lumps of coal, or festival twigs would be acceptable rewards.

[Dummmmy]

i understand ya points about d&d being based on questing and i played pnp for some years and in those years on occasion ive felt the need and actually killed party members for doing stupid things and ive also been killed by party members for the same and if you really wanna look at pnp who is to say that it itself couldnt be used for pvp . All i really started this post for was ideas on how to cure the boredom while waiting for more lack of content , i mean lets face it the last mod was just grind intensionally design to slow people down to give the devs time to get to the next grind so why not give us something even a better crafting system or something just fill in the time cause im sick of

may i have a fly spell please , fly , swim , end up in harbour, run through habour , run though market place , run through the twelve , run through the vale , ahhhhh merida

does this feel like wow to you ?

my point being give us something else to do besides run

[branmakmuffin]

Agreed. D&D is a group adventuring game, and that's where the focus should stay.
You mean like by not implementing hirelings?

I know the focus of this thread is PvP, and, like I posted before, while I don't like PvP or PvPers, what's the big deal if Turbine throws them a bone?

And why do people get in such a tizzy about D&D being a "group adventuring game?" It's not and neither is DDO, unless that's what you want it to be.

[Kanamycin]

I don't think it would be a good idea to give useful rewards or anything with meaningful monetary value for PvP. You know it would get abused, especially by plat farmers. Neat little stuff such as skin change tokens, lumps of coal, or festival twigs would be acceptable rewards.

what im saying is it couldnt be abused if they were bound or only had a use in pvp battles

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I understand what your saying, but the key word to me is "other" mmo's, thing is ddo does not define itself by other mmo's standards because no other online game plays like ddo , the reason classes need to be balanced in say wow is because people (even though they are on a team) run off and fight individually , so there is a need to balance the classes .
ddo on the other hand is truly team based , think about it you can actually fight a worthy opponent not some pre-programmed A.I. , pvp has no blanket immunities. the only concern for me is rogues and heavy fort which can be worked around with gear or attribute points that could bypass it a certain percentage of the time.

if there was a piece of gear that could be obtained through pvp and it bypassed fortification would that upset players ? because it would have no bearing on actual instances .

p.s. sorry for the bad grammer : P


I think you are dead on as to why balance between classes matters less in this game. But here's the trick, in PVP we are no longer in that team based environment so we would have the one on one spirit that drives WoW like games to balance.

I, and some others in this thread, would be very upset if any item as powerful as an item that bypassed fort were available in PVP and not elsewhere. That forces PVP play.

IF they offered rewards in PVP, they should give gear only usable in PVP.

[Kanamycin]

I think you are dead on as to why balance between classes matters less in this game. But here's the trick, in PVP we are no longer in that team based environment so we would have the one on one spirit that drives WoW like games to balance.

I, and some others in this thread, would be very upset if any item as powerful as an item that bypassed fort were available in PVP and not elsewhere. That forces PVP play.

IF they offered rewards in PVP, they should give gear only usable in PVP.

true but the point i am trying to make is that pvp only means player versus player and not 1vs1 , if it was a team driven pvp enviroment wouldnt that be balanced meaning it is blanced because you rely heavily on your team members , thats the kind of pvp i wanna see here, think something like running with the devils , they are lawful good and you are fighting.

[GorumT]

true but the point i am trying to make is that pvp only means player versus player and not 1vs1 , if it was a team driven pvp enviroment wouldnt that be balanced meaning it is blanced because you rely heavily on your team members , thats the kind of pvp i wanna see here, think something like running with the devils , they are lawful good and you are fighting.

That gets lost in translation though. WoW PvP was based around group PvP in the begining and offered no rewards of any kind. World PvP during that time was epic. Problem is, once you add any kind of PvP rewards, you invite competetiveness, which breeds the "I am no good at playing so Nerf X class" threads and wastes development time. Once that step has occured, now the Devs are putting part of their system software and time into making PvP "Balanced" which is impossible. PvP must be Rock/paper/scissors in order to remain interesting and viable in any form.

WoW was based on PvP wnad PvE content. Blizzard tried to accomidate everyone and now it's a generic mess.

You want PvP in DDO, keep it as it is. It's the best it could ever be. :)

[Kanamycin]

That gets lost in translation though. WoW PvP was based around group PvP in the begining and offered no rewards of any kind. World PvP during that time was epic. Problem is, once you add any kind of PvP rewards, you invite competetiveness, which breeds the "I am no good at playing so Nerf X class" threads and wastes development time. Once that step has occured, now the Devs are putting part of their system software and time into making PvP "Balanced" which is impossible. PvP must be Rock/paper/scissors in order to remain interesting and viable in any form.

WoW was based on PvP wnad PvE content. Blizzard tried to accomidate everyone and now it's a generic mess.

You want PvP in DDO, keep it as it is. It's the best it could ever be. :)

lol i think thats what im trying to say you just said it better : P
but the one way they could enhance it is with leaderboards and stuff
and the reason it would be rock paper scissors as you put it would be based on the group as a whole not the individual .

[Uska]

pvp should never give anything with value its to easy to exploit something like this.