Rogue capstone, I'll pass!

[Gorstag]

Sorry, but the rogue capstone is just plain useless. A possible self-raise that will ninety percent of the time only be a double death counter. Eh, Sorry, Again, I'll pass and deffinately multi-class.

[ahpook]

I think its not bad. I assume that you can accept the rez giving you time to move out of the trap, lava or immediate danger. Then you can rebuff your self and get back in to the game.

But you are correct that if they build a sucky implementation it will suck. But doesn't that go for everything? Is that a valid argument?

[slumbering_dragon]

if they chang the speel a little it could work, do resuraction instead of raise dead. and it does have an except window so u can rez up somewhere safe, its not going to be a white flash your dead and then a white flash your alive before u could eve nmove, ability. i think for a pure rouge it can work for them.

[Angelus_dead]

I think its not bad. I assume that you can accept the rez giving you time to move out of the trap, lava or immediate danger. Then you can rebuff your self and get back in to the game.
You can already do all that today.

As long as you have someone else in the party, that is. A self-rez ability is only truly useful in situations when there's nobody else there to rez you, and how often does that happen?...

Realistically in gameplay, a rogue with this power will 95% of the time get a rez spell cast on him before he has time to accept the Cheat Death confirm box. You don't have to ask for it; it just happens. It would take some fast talking if you wanted to prevent another player from rezzing you. (Remember that you can only get a capstone at level20, when the rest of the party is loaded down with good magic)

A capstone that's mostly helpful for soloing stuff? That's not the kind of thing to spend class levels and AP on. DDO is not a solo game.

[branmakmuffin]

A capstone that's mostly helpful for soloing stuff? That's not the kind of thing to spend class levels and AP on.
Possibly a valid point


DDO is not a solo game.
It's moving more and more in a solo-friendly direction, although giving a character at level 20 an ability that is arguably only useful when soloing does seem rather pointless, as you point out.

[Borror0]

Realistically in gameplay, a rogue with this power will 95% of the time get a rez spell cast on him before he has time to accept the Cheat Death confirm box.
That's why it should prevent you from going under -9 HP and then heal you. It'd save your buffs, making the ability much more useful than it is now.

It also make it less supernatural, which is kind of odd from a rogue, and make it more defensive roll-like.

[Turial]

That's why it should prevent you from going under -9 HP and then heal you. It'd save your buffs, making the ability much more useful than it is now.

It also make it less supernatural, which is kind of odd from a rogue, and make it more defensive roll-like.

The only thing I would add to that is that it should dump aggro when it heals you as if you had died. A feign death sort of thing.

[Borror0]

The only thing I would add to that is that it should dump aggro when it heals you as if you had died. A feign death sort of thing.
Yeah, nice touch. Hope Eladrin is reading.

PS: It feels good to give feedback on stuff gain, eh?

[Aspenor]

I agree that it should save the rogue from dying in the first place, if they are going to go this route.

I definitely don't regret that level of ranger on my rogue, though. :)

[bobbryan2]

I agree that it should save the rogue from dying in the first place, if they are going to go this route.

I definitely don't regret that level of ranger on my rogue, though. :)

No... but I really regret not taking a level of fighter.

Which is why this one is really weak.

[Memnir]

It's hands-down the weirdest capstone they've brewed up yet. And the one that is the best example that the capstones in general have been a pretty pretty weak carrot on a stick compared to the benefits of multiclassing.

Was thinking of making a Rogue as my next character, and this in no way makes me rethink my plans to add a splash or two as I level up.

[AnubisPrime]

As I've written in another similar thread, I'll likely keep my APs dedicated to rogue skills. My trapmonkey rarely travels without healing company. I may give the rogue capstone a pass. If there's a cleric capstone I'd jump on that!

[Hobgoblin]

um there is a cleric capstone

and it too is kinda meh

[AnubisPrime]

Ah! This is the thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=165540&highlight=cleric+capstone

It might be an interesting way to use turns and might be useful way to save SP!

[dageth]

Not only is the cleric capstone meh, it actually supplants and appears to be more useful for the rogue than the rogue one (depending on how this is implemented), since the cleric one actually stops the target from going below -9...

[frugal_gourmet]

At first glance it seems a bit odd and out of flavor with the class.

Why not simply *avoid* or *prevent* the damage rather than performing a resurrection? The former would be far more rogue-like. It would also be cooler. Dying is always a bit of an embarassment in the game and anything that helps hide a rogue's squishiness is nice.

But after a minute of thought the answer is fairly obvious.

Implementation.

This is the easiest possible way to implement such a feature. All the tools necessary have already been developed. This will take very little development time.

[Arjen]

No regrets here with 15 rogue /1 fighter which will probably become 18 rogue / 1 fighter / 1 monk.

[Fenrisulven6]

Echo. I thought DDO was centered around peeps grouping into parties. Its tough enough to solo mid level stuff resource wise, even with that one hireling allowed, so I doubt I'll be soloing endgame content.

But at least this makes it easier for me to decide my rebuild. Splash Ranger here I come.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I think its not bad. I assume that you can accept the rez giving you time to move out of the trap, lava or immediate danger. Then you can rebuff your self and get back in to the game.

Kinda like a clerics raise? Or a rez ring raise? Or a paladin raise? Or a greensteel raise? Or a...

Yeah, Im sure you get the picture.

[Sojourner]

It's a very "meh" for something that is supposed a capstone - a crowning achievement for having stayed pure class.

I was hoping for something that would make a pure rogue stand out from a hybrid character. Having a % chance to get a free rez just doesn't do that.

"Hey, we're going to run mission X -- lets grab a rogue - they can get a free rez!"

[ahpook]

Kinda like a clerics raise? Or a rez ring raise? Or a paladin raise? Or a greensteel raise? Or a...

Yeah, Im sure you get the picture.

Exactly. I believe that all of those are useful. I think that the rogue one is useful (for only 2 AP). I was merely countering the OP who claimed it was useless and double death sentence. Interestingly enough though, only one of these raises can be used to recover from or avoid a party wipe.

Anyway I don't want to become the rogue capstone defender. It is a useful ability like the other capstones but not a reason in itself to remain pure. As the capstones should be. My rogue has a level of fighter and this doesn't make me regret it.




You can already do all that today.

As long as you have someone else in the party, that is. A self-rez ability is only truly useful in situations when there's nobody else there to rez you, and how often does that happen?...

Realistically in gameplay, a rogue with this power will 95% of the time get a rez spell cast on him before he has time to accept the Cheat Death confirm box. You don't have to ask for it; it just happens. It would take some fast talking if you wanted to prevent another player from rezzing you. (Remember that you can only get a capstone at level20, when the rest of the party is loaded down with good magic)

A capstone that's mostly helpful for soloing stuff? That's not the kind of thing to spend class levels and AP on. DDO is not a solo game.

Good points. I am a little biased because 95% of my game play is with my 6 person guild that frequently short mans quests and runs without a cleric. Self sufficiency is a big part of our style. There are a number of times when this ability would have been useful to my rogue outside of solo play. However, I realize that this makes the capstone a very niche ability.



That's why it should prevent you from going under -9 HP and then heal you. It'd save your buffs, making the ability much more useful than it is now.

I like this idea. However, it will not let you get to safety like a rez might and thus could end up just being a delay until you die. Imagine falling into deep lava. Also, what happens if you die due to CON=0 or neg levels? I assume that this ability will not kick in while the original would be useful.

[Borror0]

I like this idea. However, it will not let you get to safety like a rez might and thus could end up just being a delay until you die. Imagine falling into deep lava.
Create small window of invulnerability.

Also, what happens if you die due to CON=0 or neg levels? I assume that this ability will not kick in while the original would be useful.
I doubt it should, although it remains a possibility to return negative levels to zero and restore ability scores.

[Lawst]

I see all these people complaining about the rogue capstone...

It's RESURRECTION and NOT raise dead

Reading FTW

[Griphon]

Call me Chaotic Evil Cleric..

But yah? For two lously AP? If you don't take it? Expect to be a pocket stone until the next shrine. (Or until somebody nicer than me decides to use a scroll clickie on you.)

I also don't heal WF who don't take the Healer's Friend line.... (Unless they're a caster who's mostly healing themselves and get into trouble.)