Warforged AC question

[Yajerman01]

I am making my first warforged and this question came up and I have no one to ask. So if you could help me, it would be greatly appreciated. My WF dex at end game will be 20.

1. Do docents stack with the mithral body?
2. Do armour bracers stack with either docent or a mithral body? (i wouldnt think they did, but had to ask)


inquiring minds want to know.

[Yajerman01]

bump

[Randolf_Drake]

I am making my first warforged and this question came up and I have no one to ask. So if you could help me, it would be greatly appreciated. My WF dex at end game will be 20.

1. Do docents stack with the mithral body?
2. Do armour bracers stack with either docent or a mithral body? (i wouldnt think they did, but had to ask)


inquiring minds want to know.

Yes, docents stack onto your natural, or augmented by mithral, or adamantine body feats.

Armor bracers should stack with the natural, or augmented mithral, or admantine body feats, but will not stack with the docent bonus.

Ether, or not both. I.E. Docents rule!

[MrCow]

Docents stack (and effectively add to) the composite body, mithril body, and adamantine body.

Armored Bracers do not stack with the armor provided by the Warforged body and docent. (A +4 Armored Bracer will help if you have composite body and a +1 Docent [as 4 AC is greater than 3 AC] but would do nothing if you had mithril body and no docent [as 4 AC is not greater than 5 AC]).

[Yajerman01]

Docents stack (and effectively add to) the composite body, mithril body, and adamantine body.

Armored Bracers do not stack with the armor provided by the Warforged body and docent. (A +4 Armored Bracer will help if you have composite body and a +1 Docent [as 4 AC is greater than 3 AC] but would do nothing if you had mithril body and no docent [as 4 AC is not greater than 5 AC]).


thanks for the reply. my next question is how can i make more AC then the following:

10 base
05 Mithral base feat
05 dex bonus
05 Combat Expertise
01 Pally aura
03 Bullwork ENhancement
05 Docent
02 Chaosguard
01 Alchemical on docent
03 Barkskin
40 AC

S&B will be 48.

Anything else I can add that will last longer then 4 minutes a pop and that isn't situational?


Thus far I can only assume the chattering ring.

He will be a 12 pally 2 rogue 2 fighter build that uses greataxes.

[Dark-Star]

Writing this quickly, but off the top of my head:

Depending on your dex, could use a Dagger Tooth belt for FAM2
And/or you could use a ritualized TS for 2 more
+4 for Insight from armor or weapon
+3 dodge from armor or ring
+5 protection
+1 Dodge feat

+15-17 self buffed

In a group:

+2 ranger bark
+4 bard song
(+3 Halfling enhancement)

+6-9 more

Total +21-26 or 69 to 74

[Leyoni]

thanks for the reply. my next question is how can i make more AC then the following:

10 base
05 Mithral base feat
05 dex bonus
05 Combat Expertise
01 Pally aura
03 Bullwork ENhancement
05 Docent
02 Chaosguard
01 Alchemical on docent
03 Barkskin
40 AC

S&B will be 48.

Anything else I can add that will last longer then 4 minutes a pop and that isn't situational?


Thus far I can only assume the chattering ring.

He will be a 12 pally 2 rogue 2 fighter build that uses greataxes.

I am assuming that you are taking L2 rogue for evasion and L2 fighter for the extra feats and tower shield use -- is that correct?

If so you need to understand that you are limited to the mithral body feat (which it seems is clear from your post but which I feel needs to be explicitly stated). This makes sense for you if you are limited to DEX 20 because you will be limited by your mithral body to a +5 DEX bonus.

But, note that if you add a tower shield that your DEX bonus is going to drop because TS has a lower max DEX bonus. This means that when fighting S&B what you really want is a +5 heavy shield with the alchemical bonus. That might be what you are counting on when you say +8 when S&B but, as before, I want to make sure it is explicitly stated.

Now, these two points bring me to the question of "why L2 fighter?" If you won't be using TS then having the TS proficiency isn't needed. The only thing you are getting out of it is 2 feats and you might be able to use the 2 feats gained from the monk class to better advantage.

Now, with monk as a class you will get WIS bonus to AC if you don't take the mithral body feat. And, you will also get evasion (which you are getting from rogue ATM). If you are planning to fight primarily with a big axe then you won't be using a shield most of the time anyway.

This leads me to two questions. First, "will you get more AC from WIS bonus combined with a shield spell and composite body or from the mithral body and large shield you are going to use?" The shield with alchemical enhancement is going to give you +8 at the most. A shield spell and WIS 18 gives you +8 if you get the monk bonus. So, you'll need to have either more DEX or more WIS to beat the mithral/shield combo.

Second question, "will you get more AC from WIS bonus combined with shield spell and composite body than from mithral body alone?" In this case the answer is almost certainly going to be yes. And, if you plan to fight with that big axe then you benefit from taking composite body (the default) and monk instead of fighter.

If you are only taking rogue for evasion and can get evasion from monk then what are you taking from rogue that you need? By planning 18/2 you can take advantage of the paladin prestige enhancements.

Reasons to take rogue might include access to UMD or intimidate. The big question in my mind would be, "is it more valuable than the final PrE?" Unfortunately, until level cap goes up we won't know.

[Yajerman01]

good points and i will try to answer them.

The build first off is as follows:

17 str
12 dex
13 con
12 int
6 wis
13 cha

im reading a +1 tome for con, int and cha.

I have a +2 Dex tome and planned on reading a +2 strength to for favor.

The 2 levels of fighter were for the extra 2 feats and the +1 str enhancement.

The rogue was uses at level one to maximize skill points, evasion and unlocking doors

I never intended on using a tower shield so yes the +8 was a +5 mithral shield with the alchemical bonus. The shield is essentially for when i need to turtle up and or crawl while increasingac AC and DR.

As to your latter part. Shield clickies are nice but not realistic in a constant battle. Unless im constantly spamming shield clickies I do not think its feasible to keep looking at the timer or anticipate my next cast. I will entertain the thoguth on wisdom though and take a look at it as soon as im done responding.

ill have to fudge with the stat numbers and see what i can come up with.

thank you for your reply.

[Impaqt]

Writing this quickly, but off the top of my head:

Depending on your dex, could use a Dagger Tooth belt for FAM2
And/or you could use a ritualized TS for 2 more
+4 for Insight from armor or weapon
+3 dodge from armor or ring
+5 protection
+1 Dodge feat

+15-17 self buffed

In a group:

+2 ranger bark
+4 bard song
(+3 Halfling enhancement)

+6-9 more

Total +21-26 or 69 to 74

How could a WF take Halfling Enhancments? Can we eat them? Like TOmes? THat would be sweet...

I'm also unaware of how a Halfling could get +3 to their AC.... Isnt it just +1 for their Size bonus?

A rituralized Tower Sheild would reduce his Dex bonus btw.....

[query]

*DOWN BARBARIAN "SWATH OF RED," DOWN!!!*

Seriously, that obviously was an oops.

And a friendly recap reminder for the rest of the folks:

While docents stack with body armor bonuses, nothing else with the "Armor" bonus will.

[Yajerman01]

i rolle out the 14/2 pally monk on paper and liked it much better - better AC while THF, better saves. a few less HP and less STR, but otherwise looks great!


thanks

[Yajerman01]

after looking at him on papaer and smiling, another question popped in my head, can he wear a docent while being a monk??????? without taking away the monk ac bonus?

[MrCow]

can he wear a docent while being a monk??????? without taking away the monk ac bonus?

So long as the Warforged remains in Composite Body (aka, no Mithril Body or Adamantine Body feat) then the Warforged will be safe to get the monk centered bonuses and the monk WIS AC bonus. Docents do not hinder a Warforged monk.

[Yajerman01]

So long as the Warforged remains in Composite Body (aka, no Mithril Body or Adamantine Body feat) then the Warforged will be safe to get the monk centered bonuses and the monk WIS AC bonus. Docents do not hinder a Warforged monk.



awesomeness!

[Dark-Star]

How could a WF take Halfling Enhancments? Can we eat them? Like TOmes? THat would be sweet...

I'm also unaware of how a Halfling could get +3 to their AC.... Isnt it just +1 for their Size bonus?

A rituralized Tower Sheild would reduce his Dex bonus btw.....


Not an oops, Impaqt is just not up to speed on maxing AC.

Hero's Companion IV (http://compendium.ddo.com/index.php/Enhancement:Halfling_Hero's_Companion_IV)

Now I put it in parentatheis because it's rare to find halfings that have it, and it's a not a super long duration; I only know two with it in the circle of friends I run with.

On the Tower Shield, you will note I said "and/or". And actually with a mithral version like the one from the Hound, he will net gain 1 ac with his 5 dex mod.

[Leyoni]

As to your latter part. Shield clickies are nice but not realistic in a constant battle. Unless im constantly spamming shield clickies I do not think its feasible to keep looking at the timer or anticipate my next cast.

Sorry, been traveling. Late replying to this.

UMD is the way to avoid shield clickies. At least that seems to be the big thing as I read the forums. That does present a problem because UMD is a cross-class skill for both paladin and monk. Depending on your CHA and gear that may not be a factor.

However, even without the +4 shield spell you may hit a higher AC while THF with the composite plate and WIS bonus.

Everything in character design is a series of trade-offs. If you drop STR to 16 saving 3 build points and raise WIS to 9 then with a +1 tome and +6 item you will boost AC by +3. In exchange you will lose +2 STR overall (lower start point and taking no fighter levels). This is +1 damage that won't get multiplied or calculated into damage.

So, does that change give you more AC while doing your main thing of THF then you will have if you go with mithral body? Is it worth it? What happens if you take the monk enhancement and use a +2 CHA tome, giving you another +2 CHA for a total +4 to AC?

The margin of difference in AC may be too small to worry about.

If you stick with rogue then take the levels late instead of early. You will want the skill points to top off with later in the build instead of spending them in areas that may not be important early on.

Other than that, I don't have anything to add that hasn't been covered by the others.