suggestion: keep Crit Rage as a real barb specialty

[Angelus_dead]

It has been announced that the Barbarian Critical Rage enhancements (which give +1, +2 threat range at levels 11, 14) will become untrainable in module 9. Characters who have them already can keep them, but they can't take barbarian class specialties.

That kind of handling is a mistake for a few reasons. Following is a suggestion to nerf that feature less-severely.

Change Critical Rage into a full-fledged barb specialty. Here is a fuzzy example of how that could work. I'm not going to really get into whether or not this would be a good idea.

Barb Bloodthirsty Fury 1
Prereqs: Barb 6, Sprint Boost II, Improved Critical<any>, Lightning Reflexes or Precision or Quickdraw or Evasion
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: You can spend a use of Rage to enter Critical Rage, which provides a +1 bonus to the critical threat range of your mainhand (or single) weapon. Critical Rage is separate from your ordinary Rage, and may be used at the same time. The duration of Critical Rage is determined by Extended Rage enhancements and your Dexerity score.

Barb Bloodthirsty Fury 2
Prereqs: Barb 12, Sprint Boost III, Bloodthirsty Fury 1
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: Your Critical Rage now provides +2 threat range on twohand weapons and +1 threat range on onehand weapons. You can spend a use of Sprint Boost to gain +20% melee attack speed for 20 sec, which cannot be combined with Haste Boost enhancements.

Barb Bloodthirsty Fury 3
Prereqs: Barb 18, Sprint Boost IV, Bloodthirsty Fury 2
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: Your Critical Rage now provides +2 threat range to all weapons. On a critical hit with a two-handed weapon you can add your Dexterity bonus to your Strength bonus for damage.


Comments
Notice that it's impossible to get this specialty before level 8 or 9. Notice that the requirement for a junky feat makes this ability more expensive. Notice that a barb with this system will need to spend rages twice as fast in combat, unless he's willing to temporarily miss out on either raging strength or threat range. He could quite possibly run out (especially if he gets killed & raised)

[Tanka]

Obviously it would take some tweaking, but... I could see something similar being done with one of the other two Barbarian PrEs.

I'm not a big fan of stat-damage being the only option for trash mobs, but that is (unfortunately) the state of the game these days.

[Strakeln]

Not bad. My thoughts:

- Why not get away from "junky feat" pre-reqs. There's no reason they shouldn't be useful.
- I don't view the dependence on deep investment in other enhancements as a good thing. I know FB does it, but this is right up there with junky feats. The sprint boost is awesome, but it's a ripoff after tier 1.


Finally - I've been running around touting the 2-fighter splash for quite some time now... you added this just to mess with me, I know it ;):
You can spend a use of Sprint Boost to gain +20% melee attack speed for 20 sec, which cannot be combined with Haste Boost enhancements.

[Angelus_dead]

- Why not get away from "junky feat" pre-reqs. There's no reason they shouldn't be useful.
I did that to be fair with Frenzied Berserker, by keeping the cost of this thing similar. FB requires one obligatory feat (PA) and one low-value feat (Cleave), so I had this suggestion also call for one good and one bad feat.



- I don't view the dependence on deep investment in other enhancements as a good thing. I know FB does it, but this is right up there with junky feats. The sprint boost is awesome, but it's a ripoff after tier 1.
Well, this specialty allows you to burn Sprint Boost for a serious offensive bonus.


Finally - I've been running around touting the 2-fighter splash for quite some time now... you added this just to mess with me, I know it
A barb-fighter with this specialty couldn't stack the two boosts, but he'd have 10 uses per rest...

[Auran82]

Wouldn't something like power critical be a good requirement?

[Strakeln]

I did that to be fair with Frenzied Berserker, by keeping the cost of this thing similar. FB requires one obligatory feat (PA) and one low-value feat (Cleave), so I had this suggestion also call for one good and one bad feat.Yeah, I understand that it was based on a template of the FB series, but I dislike the use of "junky feats" there as well.

That said, I don't consider cleave to be a junky feat. I'm guessing you don't want this derailed into a cleave discussion so I'll just leave it at that.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Nice sugestion all and all but...

I think you will screw the current THF barbs with that, i don't know many with high dex.
Efectivly, any THF barb that wants to take this path will have to reroll.

[Angelus_dead]

That said, I don't consider cleave to be a junky feat. I'm guessing you don't want this derailed into a cleave discussion so I'll just leave it at that.
I enjoy Cleave a lot (after all, I was the only one pushing to allow Cleave while moving in module 1, because I was stuck with it before feat respec was added).

But it's not very helpful to a TWF character, who is giving up a large number of ordinary attacks to make the AOE move. For them it's very costly, and it's partly costly to a Greater THF barb as well. And since Glancing Blows are getting more magic effects, the value of Cleave to a THF guy is shrinking.

[Angelus_dead]

I think you will screw the current THF barbs with that, i don't know many with high dex.
Efectivly, any THF barb that wants to take this path will have to reroll.
There's no real dex requirement. The dex contribution to duration doesn't have to be a big deal. If you test a normal barb rage with and without a +6 con item, you'll see there's not a major change there either.

[KaKa]

Keeping the possibility of improving the barbs crit threat is definitely something that should happen so people can try out other PrCs and decide what to take. How it is done specifically isn't that important.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

There's no real dex requirement. The dex contribution to duration doesn't have to be a big deal. If you test a normal barb rage with and without a +6 con item, you'll see there's not a major change there either.

I was thinking more damage-wise.
Besides, this kind of build will look to have his normal and crit rages more or less stacking all the time, meaning they need to last more or less the same time, will be hard to achive on a barb that maxed str and con...

[dragons1ayer74]

The idea is sound and is a far better solution than the grandfather idea. Hopefully the powers that be see it and recognize it too.

[Strakeln]

I enjoy Cleave a lot (after all, I was the only one pushing to allow Cleave while moving in module 1, because I was stuck with it before feat respec was added).

But it's not very helpful to a TWF character, who is giving up a large number of ordinary attacks to make the AOE move. For them it's very costly, and it's partly costly to a Greater THF barb as well. And since Glancing Blows are getting more magic effects, the value of Cleave to a THF guy is shrinking.I agree. The only reason I can afford it (and great cleave) is those two fighter feats on my barb.

[negative]

meh. Crit Rage has got to go. Personally, I think with what we've seen of FB, the new PrE's are giving us more than enough to make up for taking it away.

[Griphon]

I say: Get rid of the Crit Rage and be done with it. Rip out the Enhancement and make the folks respect... But then I'm a evil kinda guy at times.

Crit Rage is an abomination to begin with folks. Hurm... Barbs hit more precisely and accurately because they are.... mad? What da heck kinda thought line is that? (Me mad! Me no care about taking more damage so lower ac.... but me still swing big and honk'n axe at vital weak spots in armor!)

It -should- have been a Crit Multiplier bonus to begin with. It should have been stronger crits instead of crit more often.

Even so, you're NOT being forced to respec so you won't loose it.

No new characters will be able to learn it. Nobody who respects Enhancements will be able to learn it.

Turbine is being nicer than I would.. and nicer than they have to be.


One thing though? I really think they should be nice enough to allow deconstruction of Green Steel items. And perhaps maybe code up the whole option to Respec a character to help those who've been 'hurt' by the change.. I mean.. That is only fair.