Racial Enhancements

[Braegan]

Some enhancements have clearly pushed some races over others...*ahem*dwarves*ahem*. But after getting the new change to racial toughness, I thought it would be a great idea to implement that for Dwarven Faith and Elven Arcanum.

Now I like the way racial toughness was handled, some races are hardier than others and reaped a greater benefit. Some races are more inclined towards magic and should reap a greater reward but I don't think every other race should be excluded. On an aside I never understood why dwarves got a bonus to divine mana when the healing house in stormreach is Jorasco (halflings).

Thoughts?

[Turial]

Some enhancements have clearly pushed some races over others...*ahem*dwarves*ahem*. But after getting the new change to racial toughness, I thought it would be a great idea to implement that for Dwarven Faith and Elven Arcanum.

Now I like the way racial toughness was handled, some races are hardier than others and reaped a greater benefit. Some races are more inclined towards magic and should reap a greater reward but I don't think every other race should be excluded. On an aside I never understood why dwarves got a bonus to divine mana when the healing house in stormreach is Jorasco (halflings).

Thoughts?

Dwarven clerics and especially well thought of in dwarven society because of their close ties to their gods. One could see this as being represented through the dwarven faith boost to SP.

Halflings do not get this because their forays into the healing world are mainly bolstered by the House J Dragon Mark.

You might not get a lot of leverage on the racial faith and arcane sp boosting enhancements because they are not unlocked by a feat that every race can get, rather they are flavorful ways of indicating prefered race to class combinations.

[Deuce]

Afraid I can't agree, not unless the other races start getting the extra enhancement that humans get, or everyone starts getting a SR line of enhancements like Drow, or immunities to effects like hold person/poison like WF get. Each race has its own special things - I like it that way. And I'm particularly fond of Dwarves, and don't like that they took their racial enhancement and spread it around. Leave each of the races with their specials. But that's just my opinion, I'm sure others will both agree and disagree with my opinion.

[Braegan]

You might not get a lot of leverage on the racial faith and arcane sp boosting enhancements because they are not unlocked by a feat that every race can get, rather they are flavorful ways of indicating prefered race to class combinations.

It can be. Every race can take mental toughness, which could be a pre-req for said enhancements.

[Braegan]

Afraid I can't agree, not unless the other races start getting the extra enhancement that humans get, or everyone starts getting a SR line of enhancements like Drow, or immunities to effects like hold person/poison like WF get. Each race has its own special things - I like it that way. And I'm particularly fond of Dwarves, and don't like that they took their racial enhancement and spread it around. Leave each of the races with their specials. But that's just my opinion, I'm sure others will both agree and disagree with my opinion.

Taking a certain races inheirent bonuses (WF Immunities, Drow SR) is not the same ball park as spreading enhancements around. And I think it was a great idea for other races to get the toughness enhancement. Sure Dwarves and WF are the toughest of the tough but the other races at least get something. But I guess I am the minority in wanting this.

[Deuce]

Taking a certain races inheirent bonuses (WF Immunities, Drow SR) is not the same ball park as spreading enhancements around. And I think it was a great idea for other races to get the toughness enhancement. Sure Dwarves and WF are the toughest of the tough but the other races at least get something. But I guess I am the minority in wanting this.

If every race can take a watered down version of another race's special enhancement, what makes the different races special and unique? Sure, Humans are the most flexible of the flexible, but shouldn't the other races get something?

I do kind of see your point, but I'm still going to have to disagree. Each race has some things that make it special - and not just Dragon marks. I would prefer that they leave those things alone and special to the applicable race.

[BlackSteel]

I could see humans getting the first rank in most of the other races enhancements, if given a feat to unlock it

first rank of faith enhancement unlocked with MT
one rank of improved power attack, of course unlocked by power attack
the new wf glancing blow line, unlocked with THF
fortitude, reflex, or will saves unlocked with any of the saving throw feats, insight reflexes etc.

all with only one rank available tho
b/c lets face it, humans do kinda get the short stick in enhancements, having enhancements that actually 'enhance' feats selected would be nice and play off the class, while not taking away from the other classes

[Griphon]

I like the OP's idea.

With the idea that certain things like 'Drow SR' and 'WF DR' aren't kept into their races.

[Feylina]

a halfling with "Toughness" makes me puke in my mouth a little.

[Borror0]

I thought it would be a great idea to implement that for Dwarven Faith and Elven Arcanum.
...you are saying that 60 SPs at the cost of 10 APs is overpowered?

...and that is including Elven Arcanum?! Elves are like the most powerful race for wizards... after Warforged, Human, Drow, Dwarf and Halfling.:rolleyes:

[ThrasherGT]

...you are saying that 60 SPs at the cost of 10 APs is overpowered?

...and that is including Elven Arcanum?! Elves are like the most powerful race for wizards... after Warforged, Human, Drow, Dwarf and Halfling.:rolleyes:

Glib does not equal Clever. Nowhere does the OP say anything is "overpowered" as You are assuming. There's nothing wrong with "Spreading the love" a bit like it was done with racial Toughness. Will this Idea ever go anywhere? I doubt it, but Your sarcasm adds nothing to the thread. Go have another cup of coffee, and wake up a bit..............

[Borror0]

Nowhere does the OP say anything is "overpowered" as You are assuming. There's nothing wrong with "Spreading the love" a bit like it was done with racial Toughness.
I don't have anything against spreading the love, indeed. I even was for modifying Dwarven Toughness to reduce the HP gap between races. The idea they came up with for Toughness enhancements was a very clever. Hat off to whoever came up with it. It was a very clever alternative to simply removing the whole enhancement line. Cleverly upsets less players.

However, it's the overpowered nature of Dwarven Toughness that justified that whole "spreading the love" idea. A race having access to 50 HP more than any other and could go up to 100-116 sometimes. That was way too much. By giving other classes access to lower ranks of the enhancement, they reduced that gap to an acceptable level that could be put on "making the races feel different". But, neither of Elven Arcanum or Dwarven Faith are that powerful. Their existence can be put on "making the races feel different" and there is a RP reason to justify it.

So, while Turbine could do it, why should they?

[vainangel]

a halfling with "Toughness" makes me puke in my mouth a little.

rofl
i agree

[xberto]

While we are on the topic of racial enhancements, I'd like a Dwarven Axe +1 crit range enhancment for my dwarven axes. Thank you.

[ThrasherGT]

So, while Turbine could do it, why should they?

Because:

1. More variety.

2. It's Saturday.

3. They feel like it.

4. Just to P*ss You off.

Oh, and to quote you, "Why shouldn't They? I like this game."

[Junts]

I could see humans getting the first rank in most of the other races enhancements, if given a feat to unlock it

first rank of faith enhancement unlocked with MT
one rank of improved power attack, of course unlocked by power attack
the new wf glancing blow line, unlocked with THF
fortitude, reflex, or will saves unlocked with any of the saving throw feats, insight reflexes etc.

all with only one rank available tho
b/c lets face it, humans do kinda get the short stick in enhancements, having enhancements that actually 'enhance' feats selected would be nice and play off the class, while not taking away from the other classes

the new master race approves.

[Borror0]

More variety.
That is debatable and you are clever enough to figure out why.

Oh, and to quote you, "Why shouldn't They? I like this game."
I'll bring it again to Dwarven Toughness to illustrate my point.

Dwarven Toughness was a boost of at least +50 HP, sometimes +68 as the feat wasn't worth picking up without the enhancement to back it up. That's a huge bonus in HP. That's over a bonus of over 10%. Faith and Arcanum are a +60 SP. That's not even a 5% upgrade. Now, the way Racial Toughness is, the fourth tier is a 5% upgrade on a build that has 400 HP.

That's comparing 4 APs to 10 APs.

Shortly put, Arcanum and Faith are so weak that they barely matter in a build. Allowing other races to get access to them would only make them weaker racial enhancement lines than they currently are. They are flavorful. They fit within the racial stereotypes. Just let them be.