white dragon/ maze

[juniorpfactors]

hey this is so cool, run the quest 2 times last night for that lovely Flagging mechanism that is back in the game. ala DQ

and both times we get in to the maze, 4 players lag so bad they are running in place, 2 of us make it to the dragon, on hard and failure

2nd go around, we all get to the maze, 1 player makes it in, dragon at 25%, the rest of us are running in place for about 30 seconds and we get Failure again.

The game is broken and has been since mod 6 patch day the Lag is pathetic, the dragon isnt lagging he takes damage just the players cant move, sounds pretty FAIR

and this new reflag has kinda ruined the motivation of many on Thenalis

it was a nice waist of 50 minutes of my time


jrp

[Dexxaan]

/Agreed

The whole reflagging thing doesn´t bother me really. It keeps people from "Reavering" the Sorjek SOS Quest and thats ok with me.

BUT the random path after X minutes of resource wasting and TIME wasted to see if MAYBE you get the right path to the Dragon and can mangle my limited play time of late and THAT is a major issue IMO.

I have maybe 2.5 Hrs 3-4 nights a week to get SOS ready and due to this freakin quest´s randomness BS I have been unable to stay with groups for 3 hours at a time to get it knocked out.

Of course having said that last night (way past my bedtime) I ran it on Elite and as I was about to /cheer after killing the last Giant...but guess what? The Dragon went poof and 45 min later (and majorly past my bedtime) a GM respawned it so the 3 or 4 of us that endured the wait could talk and end the quest.

In conclusion the time wasted with Random Failure Shafting Quests is going to kill DDO´s high end gamers.

[Strykersz]

Tbh, this quest isn't that bad as long as you have someone who knows how to break each wall, the paths through the maze and a party that listens/can follow. The failure mechanic is a bit annoying until you get it down.

[Ringos]

hey this is so cool, run the quest 2 times last night for that lovely Flagging mechanism that is back in the game. ala DQ

and both times we get in to the maze, 4 players lag so bad they are running in place, 2 of us make it to the dragon, on hard and failure

2nd go around, we all get to the maze, 1 player makes it in, dragon at 25%, the rest of us are running in place for about 30 seconds and we get Failure again.

The game is broken and has been since mod 6 patch day the Lag is pathetic, the dragon isnt lagging he takes damage just the players cant move, sounds pretty FAIR

and this new reflag has kinda ruined the motivation of many on Thenalis

it was a nice waist of 50 minutes of my time



jrp


Yeah, motivation for the new content seems low, even after all the expectation.

I never had real 'lag' until the GH come about. It's better some times, worse others but always around. Remember when you would run quests and raids and nobody ever said 'lag' into the mic? I can hardly remember those days.

Reflagging? Yeah, it's probably going to end up being like the DQ...it will mainly be all-guild runs once in a while. Just my opinion.

[djinni69]

I agree as well. Mixing the randomness into the quest was a nice move, but placing a timed sequence smack dab in the middle of the randomness portion is a really awful idea. There's no skill involved, just get lucky. That is really poor gameplay design, and they need to think this through much more. Random is fine, let me repeat that. However, placing the random section in a timed sequence is frustrating for players. Our skill at the game has very little effect on that part. Mix it with the lag, and ugh ... nightmare.

[Dexxaan]

Tbh, this quest isn't that bad as long as you have someone who knows how to break each wall, the paths through the maze and a party that listens/can follow. The failure mechanic is a bit annoying until you get it down.

Never have had a problem with people knowing how and which way to go thru walls, levers, etc.... THAT is simply not the issue.

The issue is a Quest that can by itself Randomly Hand Out a Failure, Not by difficulty of a certain challenge, ot having a good Rogue, etc... but by randomness.:mad: (And I like randomness in the game....been asking for it for a long time but not laced with Insta-Failure)

How about in Hound they make it so the timer for beholders is randomly generated....allowing them to pop in at 50% of the known spawn timer?

Now do u get what the issue is?

[juniorpfactors]

Tbh, this quest isn't that bad as long as you have someone who knows how to break each wall, the paths through the maze and a party that listens/can follow. The failure mechanic is a bit annoying until you get it down.

know how to break a wall? :confused:

jrp

[Solmage]

I really enjoy this quest, it can be done with a competent group in 20 minutes. My main issue is that I'm ransacked for it already =(

My first run ever, we didn't even take a cleric or bard with us, and we beat it. Since then I have managed to fail it 3 times, and all of those were because people simply don't listen, or if they don't understand, don't simply say "I didn't understand", and instead remain silent.

It's a **** fun quest.

[Dexxaan]

I really enjoy this quest, it can be done with a competent group in 20 minutes. My main issue is that I'm ransacked for it already =(

My first run ever, we didn't even take a cleric or bard with us, and we beat it. Since then I have managed to fail it 3 times, and all of those were because people simply don't listen, or if they don't understand, don't simply say "I didn't understand", and instead remain silent.

It's a **** fun quest.

Definitely an awesome quest - my two favorite Mobs (Giants and Dragons) BUT:

* The cooperation among party members has nothing to do with your success ratio.

* The Fun-Factor is not in question Solmage.

[Solmage]

The issue is a Quest that can by itself Randomly Hand Out a Failure, Not by difficulty of a certain challenge, ot having a good Rogue, etc... but by randomness.:mad: (And I like randomness in the game....been asking for it for a long time but not laced with Insta-Failure)

Can you please ellaborate on this? I have never seen any "random failure" "just because".

[juniorpfactors]

Can you please ellaborate on this? I have never seen any "random failure" "just because".

how about lag for 30 seconds when the party cant move at all..... and yet the dragon dies while we are getting rubber banded over and over, dont impletment a quest based on a timer when you cant effectivley build a game that
a. lag is everywhere now
b. selling at vendors hardly works
c. mailbox still stick

a timing quest when you cant make things work in real time, isnt intelligent

jrp

[Dexxaan]

Can you please ellaborate on this? I have never seen any "random failure" "just because".

"Just because you chose the wrong path......"

"just because you took too long arriving to Ice Dragon at 1% health"

"Just because everytime you must seek out a timed access route"

You must be a Minoan Maze Navigator (And even that takes time to do regardless of the maze-exiting strategy used) if your party has never split up (or stayed together) and sought and found the right path AND arrived late to rescue the Ice Dragon.

[Dexxaan]

how about lag for 30 seconds when the party cant move at all..... and yet the dragon dies while we are getting rubber banded over and over, dont impletment a quest based on a timer when you cant effectivley build a game that
a. lag is everywhere now
b. selling at vendors hardly works
c. mailbox still stick

a timing quest when you cant make things work in real time, isnt intelligent

jrp


And this list also.

[Dirac]

Regardless of the randomness/lag issues, I would like to make the point, again, that a group of people who have never done the quest before will automatically fail. There is no chance of being successful. That blows, no if's and's or but's.

[Dexxaan]

Regardless of the randomness/lag issues, I would like to make the point, again, that a group of people who have never done the quest before will automatically fail. There is no chance of being successful. That blows, no if's and's or but's.

Add this to the list.... :D

[satya_sai]

I have to say that I really, really, like a random puzzle.
I was delighted to see the lights out in the monastery that people actually had to think over for the two days before everyone had the solver,
And I'm delighted at a random maze.

I really, REALLY, like to see the predictability of the game dimished.
I also like those rare opportunities when players are forced to use their own problem solving abilities rather than a solver to complete a quest.
I honestly think that if more of this were implemented you'd see a big change in who the "power gamers" are.


However,
When you can successfully navigate the maze in short order and find the white dragon at under 1/4 health...and find yourself in the danger zone before you've even begun, that's just not right.

I've had instance twice now where i've found the correct path through the maze immediately, and with haste and striding ... the dragon was dead upon my entering the room. That's not right.

I'm not sure if there is a random factor of starting the attack that I'm not aware of that meant someone else in my party started the process....but we entered the maze room together and worked quickly.

[Thrudh]

I have to agree... the random maze tied with the timer is bad bad design.

I've ALWAYS hated "Fail" quests like the original east Threnal 3 (Coyle), Faithul Departed, and this new quest...

Like someone else said... these kind of quests are ALWAYS failed the first time through... That's terrible design...

Random maze so late in the quest is very annoying... Pure luck if you complete or not... Nothing to do with player skill, or character strengths... pure luck if you pick the correct path through the maze in order to get to the dragon fast enough...

I also hate respawning quests (like Offering of Blood and this new quest) where you're basically forced to ZERG like maniacs, because going slow and enjoying the scenery means you're hit with major respawns...

This quest is so casual-player unfriendly, it's insane...

[Ringos]

I really enjoy this quest, it can be done with a competent group in 20 minutes. My main issue is that I'm ransacked for it already =(

My first run ever, we didn't even take a cleric or bard with us, and we beat it. Since then I have managed to fail it 3 times, and all of those were because people simply don't listen, or if they don't understand, don't simply say "I didn't understand", and instead remain silent.

It's a **** fun quest.

Would you consider yourself an average player with average equipment? I would venture a guess you are not. Quests on Normal need to be able to be completed by a random group of average players. Maybe not 100%, but one small lag spike can cause a Normal failure. That's not good.

[Thrudh]

Can you please ellaborate on this? I have never seen any "random failure" "just because".

Have you ever taken the wrong turn in the maze, and saw the dragon is dead message before you even got there?

If not, then do you have some kind of trick for always getting through the maze with no wrong turns?

[YoDKC]

"just because you took too long arriving to Ice Dragon at 1% health"


I used to have trouble with this quest as well. In previous posts it was thought that the dragon's health only dropped once you entered the maze. Then it was pointed out to me that the Dragons health starts to drop once the second lever is pulled. There are a few distractions along the way, but don't mess around. Go straight for the dragon.

[Turial]

Regardless of the randomness/lag issues, I would like to make the point, again, that a group of people who have never done the quest before will automatically fail. There is no chance of being successful. That blows, no if's and's or but's.

Thats not true. There is a chance...just very small. I beat it my first time, with only new people, and have failed almost every time since with people who know what to do.

[Dexxaan]

Thats not true. There is a chance...just very small. I beat it my first time, with only new people, and have failed almost every time since with people who know what to do.

ROFL

Case Closed.

[spyderwolf]

/Agreed

The whole reflagging thing doesn´t bother me really. It keeps people from "Reavering" the Sorjek SOS Quest and thats ok with me.

BUT the random path after X minutes of resource wasting and TIME wasted to see if MAYBE you get the right path to the Dragon and can mangle my limited play time of late and THAT is a major issue IMO.

I have maybe 2.5 Hrs 3-4 nights a week to get SOS ready and due to this freakin quest´s randomness BS I have been unable to stay with groups for 3 hours at a time to get it knocked out.

Of course having said that last night (way past my bedtime) I ran it on Elite and as I was about to /cheer after killing the last Giant...but guess what? The Dragon went poof and 45 min later (and majorly past my bedtime) a GM respawned it so the 3 or 4 of us that endured the wait could talk and end the quest.

In conclusion the time wasted with Random Failure Shafting Quests is going to kill DDO´s high end gamers.


jsut look me up in game if ya need prey completion bruttus. that quest is retardely easy

[Thrudh]

I used to have trouble with this quest as well. In previous posts it was thought that the dragon's health only dropped once you entered the maze. Then it was pointed out to me that the Dragons health starts to drop once the second lever is pulled. There are a few distractions along the way, but don't mess around. Go straight for the dragon.

Wait is this true?? That could make a huge difference...

[Turial]

Wait is this true?? That could make a huge difference...

I had thought it was when you killed the last cleric who's death drops the final wall prior to the maze.

I've been in lots of groups that recall after the second lever to get mana back and we have only see the dragon fail message if we take our sweet time after killing that final cleric.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I like the quest

The only thing 'bad' about it is that, right now, normal is harder than hard - which seems somewhat counterintuitive. But the devs have already said they're changing that.

If you're getting lag, try killing the giants instead of running past them.

Splitting the group into 3 parties and having good communication as to which ones have hit a dead end is a surefire way to complete the quest each time - I haven't had any failures due to the maze since we've been doing that - it's just a matter of agreeing the plan before running into the maze and sticking with it.

Garth

[Strakeln]

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll have to say it again:

Asking for changes from Turbine is like making a deal with the devil. Here's some examples:

1) Players: We want crafting! Turbine: We will give you crafting! ...at the expense of named items and raid loot!
2) Players: We want large resolutions to work properly! Turbine: We'll show your confirmation boxes, but we're going to make floaty text so large that you'll start keeping people's names turned off!
3) Players: We want random dungeons! Turbine: Here's a random dungeon, and look, it's timed!!
4) Players: We want content! Turbine: here, enjoy some new low-level quests, and we took out some of the favorite quests. Oh, and here's a goofy newbie experience to convince you to leave in your first week!

...so on and so forth. :o

[Issip]

I really enjoy this quest, it can be done with a competent group in 20 minutes. My main issue is that I'm ransacked for it already =(

My first run ever, we didn't even take a cleric or bard with us, and we beat it. Since then I have managed to fail it 3 times, and all of those were because people simply don't listen, or if they don't understand, don't simply say "I didn't understand", and instead remain silent.

It's a **** fun quest.

OMG you are the most amazing gamer ever - can I have your autograph and hear more tales of your super-awesomeness?

[smatt]

Regardless of the randomness/lag issues, I would like to make the point, again, that a group of people who have never done the quest before will automatically fail. There is no chance of being successful. That blows, no if's and's or but's.



Hmmmm... No it doesn't.... SOME THINGS take practice..... Boy, if you'd been around in the Titan days :rolleyes: Hey even Lame Abbot, which isn't even worth touching unless you have 200 hours to waste on it :D

I agree with the thread starter though.... lag is still bad, not AS bad but still really bad at times, even slow ones.

[VirieSquichie]

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll have to say it again:

Asking for changes from Turbine is like making a deal with the devil. Here's some examples:

1) Players: We want crafting! Turbine: We will give you crafting! ...at the expense of named items and raid loot!
2) Players: We want large resolutions to work properly! Turbine: We'll show your confirmation boxes, but we're going to make floaty text so large that you'll start keeping people's names turned off!
3) Players: We want random dungeons! Turbine: Here's a random dungeon, and look, it's timed!!
4) Players: We want content! Turbine: here, enjoy some new low-level quests, and we took out some of the favorite quests. Oh, and here's a goofy newbie experience to convince you to leave in your first week!

...so on and so forth. :o

That sounds suspiciously like how a Wish from a djinni or old-school devil was supposed to work...you say your wish and if the DM can figure any way to twist it while remaining within the letter of it, he's supposed to because the djinni/devil is supposed to be tricky/evil...

[Strakeln]

That sounds suspiciously like how a Wish from a djinni or old-school devil was supposed to work...you say your wish and if the DM can figure any way to twist it while remaining within the letter of it, he's supposed to because the djinni/devil is supposed to be tricky/evil...Exactly. :)

[ahpook]

Well they have already said they will tweak the settings to be more lenient on Normal:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1912182#post1912182

And I agree with the earlier poster, if you are running past giants and then complaining about Lag that is pretty pathetic.

[negative]

I used to have trouble with this quest as well. In previous posts it was thought that the dragon's health only dropped once you entered the maze. Then it was pointed out to me that the Dragons health starts to drop once the second lever is pulled. There are a few distractions along the way, but don't mess around. Go straight for the dragon.

The second lever? Before the teaser at the chest, the drop, and the first red-named and guarenteed chest? There is no way that is true. First, you can see the dragon perched above that chest, and is not in combat. Second, I've been consistantly recalling for SP after the red name and his chest, without issue.

I've also recalled for SP after breaking down the last wall and running up that path some. I had the same amount of time to get through the maze as any other run.

I would be very very surprised if the dragon starts to lose health anytime before the DM text upon entering the maze.

All that said, I HATE the fact that the maze is timed. I love that it's random, but I HATE escort missions, and that's what this is. And worst of all you aren't even their to protect your escort until ou find your way through a random maze.

Honestly, it's worse than timed, because the rate the dragon takes damage seems to vary, depending on exactly how the battle plays out. I've ran straight through on the correct path without any mistakes and come up with her at 40% health, and ran through making one mistake and she had 60% left.

[Ringos]

The second lever? Before the teaser at the chest, the drop, and the first red-named and guarenteed chest? There is no way that is true. First, you can see the dragon perched above that chest, and is not in combat. Second, I've been consistantly recalling for SP after the red name and his chest, without issue.

I've also recalled for SP after breaking down the last wall and running up that path some. I had the same amount of time to get through the maze as any other run.

I would be very very surprised if the dragon starts to lose health anytime before the DM text upon entering the maze.

All that said, I HATE the fact that the maze is timed. I love that it's random, but I HATE escort missions, and that's what this is. And worst of all you aren't even their to protect your escort until ou find your way through a random maze.

Honestly, it's worse than timed, because the rate the dragon takes damage seems to vary, depending on exactly how the battle plays out. I've ran straight through on the correct path without any mistakes and come up with her at 40% health, and ran through making one mistake and she had 60% left.

Hey, I'd KILL to have 40% left when I got there. Only tried a handfull of times, but 25% without making a boner in the maze is about the best I've been up there for. :)

[Dirac]

Hmmmm... No it doesn't.... SOME THINGS take practice..... Boy, if you'd been around in the Titan days :rolleyes: Hey even Lame Abbot, which isn't even worth touching unless you have 200 hours to waste on it :D

I agree with the thread starter though.... lag is still bad, not AS bad but still really bad at times, even slow ones.

I've been here since the beginning. Certainly, the design objectives for raids and 6-person quests are completely different. Raids have always had an initial expectation of failure.


Thats not true. There is a chance...just very small.

Obviously, the effects of these two conditions are identical.

[smatt]

I've been here since the beginning. Certainly, the design objectives for raids and 6-person quests are completely different. Raids have always had an initial expectation of failure.



I would expect to hav ea very good chance of failure on any NEW end game quest...... Heck, I'd love to have more of a chance at failure more of the time to be honest. It's just that with 12 people in a party, and multiple objectives there are more chances of failure.


There's nothing wrong with failing now and then..... Well, unless it's simply out of pure stupidity, which in my case can happen ;)

[smatt]

Hey, I'd KILL to have 40% left when I got there. Only tried a handfull of times, but 25% without making a boner in the maze is about the best I've been up there for. :)


Try elite, it's much easier ;)... No really it is.......... Lots more time for stumbles in the maze....

[Spisey]

Try elite, it's much easier ;)... No really it is.......... Lots more time for stumbles in the maze....


/signed

I have only failed on elite once. On the other two difficulties I, I have a slightly lower success rate. Just don't fully pug this on elite. A group that stays organized and communicates is necessary.

[Aesop]

/signed

I have only failed on elite once. On the other two difficulties I, I have a slightly lower success rate. Just don't fully pug this on elite. A group that stays organized and communicates is necessary.

Sadly I haven't been a part of a guild and the reason is because of the inevitable crazy that happens in them. However this means that I don't have regular running peeps. Its and unenviable position that we place turbine in. Make the quests challenging enough to keep the uber LEET satisfied without making them so hard that the casuals can't complete.

I also seem to always choose the hardest path. My current running Fav is a 12fight 4 paladin S&B character... I think I just like the idea of a Knight like character... so the problem there is the no Evasion thing for running Enter the Kobold... don't get me started on triple cast 250 point Comet Falls... I'm an Elf for doG's sake how many HP do you really think I have

On the Maze... I seem to have decent luck running through the maze ... butone of the times we ran through before we even hit the tube to drop down on the ice the Dragon was dead... and we didn't take very long in the maze... the giants must have criticalled a lot

... bed is calling thought is gone... night all

Aesop

[sirgog]

/signed

I have only failed on elite once. On the other two difficulties I, I have a slightly lower success rate. Just don't fully pug this on elite. A group that stays organized and communicates is necessary.

I've found Elite harder than Hard (and Normal is tougher than both).

You get to Aussircaex with her having a lot of HP on Elite, but the red named giant absolutely tears her up, and he takes quite some time to kill. Plus, the Frostie Clerics spam Bladebarrier a lot more, and are much, much harder to land Flesh to Stone on.

[Lehrman]

Went through 8 failures on normal arriving either when the dragon have 20% or less hp or not arriving at all. No lag in maze in any of the runs though. The problem was that the dragon was a major wimp--course it is a white dragon. Finally got a completion when a guildie opened elite. The dragon had plenty of hitpoints then.

[Vorn]

Ran this on hard a few times tonight.

Dragon was at full health (tabbing to see) upon entering the maze. Usually we had her at 33-40% upon exit just using the firemans rule. Fairly certain the second lever has nothing to do with starting that fight.

Intimidate everything and drag them all down by the stairs. Spam enervate scrolls, fts, smack with dreamspitter a couple of times. Intimitank runs down and sets up for red named while dragon gets kited around. Tank, strikers, and healer take out red named. Finish off whatever else the dragon wants to chew on.

At present, Hard definitely seems the way to go. Have only tried elite a couple of times and though she was at 50% or so when we got there, it didn't go well.:o

[Pyromaniac]

There's two major problems with this quest:

1) First time failure is likely - Ooh there's a shrine...used it....wipe

2) Lag means failure - this should have been a lesson learned from the Abbott raid. Timed puzzles + lag = problem quest