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View Full Version : My Ideas on how to fix some probelms...



hydra_ex
11-03-2008, 06:21 PM
Okay, I've seen alot of rants about how to change things, alot of trolling, and very few GOOD posts (Impaqt, MrCow, A_D are some). So, I thought I'd have some fun and try to adress the issues.

1) Elves. I've always been a fan of elves, yet in DDO, the high elf is completely useless. In comparison to haflings, they lose 1 AC, 1 to each save, alot of flanking damage/to-hit and -2 CON. Elves only have +2 longsword/rapier to-hit/damage (and bows, but that's another issue) and +2 STR. Elves should be better TWF rangers than they currently are, as well as decent wizards and bards.

Give another category of elven attack and damage. Make one "Elven Sword Damage I". This category would include scimitars, longswords, and bastard swords. Make another "Elven Finnesse Damage I", which includes daggers, shortswords, and rapiers. This would allow elves to obtain better straight up damage/to-hit over haflings, while a sneak attack hafling will deal more damage.

Create a new enhancement akin to Warforged Power Attack called "Elven Improved Combat Exptertise". This would come in 2 sets, with costs of 2 AP and 4 AP respectively. The second Each bonus grants an additional +1 to AC and -1 to hit. Although this gives the elf +1 AC over the hafling, it costs 6 AP, -2 to-hit, a feat, and CE. Also, the elf is still at a 16 hp disadvantage.

Introduce a new song enhancement as an improvement to spellsinger. Costing 2 AP, it would grant a 10% stacking duration to spellsong trance. Non-elven spellsingers will have more HP, more combat ability, or a higher charisma (if they are a drow).

2) THF. THF simply does not do enough damage. Allow ITWF to grant a 1% untyped bonus to THF attack speed (such as tempest) and give 2% for GTWF. Introduce a specialty "Fighter Savage Storm I" which grants a further 1% to attack speed, and "Fighter Savage Storm II" which grants +2 damage and +1 to-hit to glancing blows. This allows THF to gain a slight damage boost, while giving fighters some love. TWF will still deal more damage, as it needs a higher DEX prereq (more cost = more damage).

3) Sword and Board Combat. Not enough AC, not enough DPS. SHIELD SPECIALIZATION! Straight from the PHBII (with a slight modification), this feat will give +1 AC to anyone using a shield. Also, come out with Improved Shield Specialization and Greater Shield Specialization, which gives a further +1 bonus at each interval. Also, at the 4th and 5th attack, add a kind of glancing blow, which deal a tiny bit of damage, with a severe to-hit penalty to all enemieswithin a 90 degree cone in front of the player.

4) Ranged. Range combat does not attack fast enough, although it is incredibly useful given certain situations. Reduce the 120 second manyshot cooldown to base 100 seconds, and give it further reduction time (10 seconds per interval) with enhancements. Add in a feat Improved Rapid Shot, which gives a further bonus to attack speed. Also, have ranged combatants the ability to take subtle sniping enhancements, as ranged combatants deal damage comparable to S&B, yet cannot be damaged if played well. Following monsters agroed to a ranger is another pain, so the subtle sniping enhancements would help agro.

5) Fighters. Already in the works by the Devs, so theres no use complaining :)

6) Paladins. Paladins do not have a high enough AC, damage, to-hit, etc. Simply give paladins intimidate as a class skill, and give them intimidate I through IV. Zeal does help alot, but introduce some divine feats (wether they be enhancements or actual feats is irrelevant); more damage for expended turns, greater AC, DVs even.

7) Firewall. Firewalls were nerfed. Make the damage stack partially. Rate each firewall in terms of average damage, and make each one lower on the list deal 25% of its normal damage of the previous. Thus, 3 firewalls, Dealing 100, 200, and 300 base damage respectively, would deal 300 damage for the most powerful, 25% of 200 (50 damage), and 25% of 25% (6.25%) of 100 (6.25 damage). Thus, the 3 firewalls deal 356 damage on average, instead of only 300, and instead of the 600 damage pre-nerf. Same would go for other similiar spells.

And thats it, I hope I didn't appear to rant, please comment :)

Vivanto
11-03-2008, 06:35 PM
Erm ok, just a few notices

1.
Your comparision is elf vs halfling yet it could very well be halfling vs everyone else.
There is already an enchantement line called Elven Arcanum, same as Dwarven Faith for clerics this one is for wizards so elves indeed favor wizzis, sorcerer isnt a favoured class and they dont need any extra sp anyway.
The combat expertise sounds good tho, since elves should be masters of finesse. Altho that would more suit as a fighter line, while really elves should have the Racial Armor Mastery that Dwarves got.

2.
Dont bork with feats working by the rules. Bring in prcs for the repsective melee classes, mainly barb and fighter to augment THF DPS.

3.
Same as above, best way to help S&B would be trough prcs, as far as I know Dwarven Defender is comming. Agreed on giving enchantement lines based on shield spec feats.

4.
Pretty much agree, ranged combat could use some help.

6.
Again, don't change the rules, pallies simply dont have Intimi. Anyways the best intimitanks are sort of a mixed up mc. Prc could help here as well, rest of the class is working fine just ppl expect to play a pally as a barb.

7.
Or just use any of the dozens of spells at your disposal, FW isnt the only answer. Only thing that may need "fixing" is to keep the best FW dealing damage. Hate when I put down a max emp sup potencied critted etc... FW only to be rendered useless by another arcane or even worse by an UMDing rogue.

hydra_ex
11-03-2008, 06:52 PM
Erm ok, just a few notices

1.
Your comparision is elf vs halfling yet it could very well be halfling vs everyone else.
There is already an enchantement line called Elven Arcanum, same as Dwarven Faith for clerics this one is for wizards so elves indeed favor wizzis, sorcerer isnt a favoured class and they dont need any extra sp anyway.
The combat expertise sounds good tho, since elves should be masters of finesse. Altho that would more suit as a fighter line, while really elves should have the Racial Armor Mastery that Dwarves got.


Haflings and Elves are the main 2 finnesse builds, and haflings are superior to elf in almost every way, so why not make elves better and compare them. And your right about the arcanum... at least make it apply to bards.



2.
Dont bork with feats working by the rules. Bring in prcs for the repsective melee classes, mainly barb and fighter to augment THF DPS.


Which rules do you speak of? THF should have a limited damage boost, and THF feats need fixing as well (bonuses to glancing blow attack damage isn't cutting it) Fix 3 things - fighters, THF feats, and THF in one fix.




3.
Same as above, best way to help S&B would be trough prcs, as far as I know Dwarven Defender is comming. Agreed on giving enchantement lines based on shield spec feats.


procs would be nice, but DDO has alot of randomness as it is, semi-consistant damage is needed.




4.
Pretty much agree, ranged combat could use some help.


yep :)




6.
Again, don't change the rules, pallies simply dont have Intimi. Anyways the best intimitanks are sort of a mixed up mc. Prc could help here as well, rest of the class is working fine just ppl expect to play a pally as a barb.


Uh... why not? PnP is not the same as DDO, therefore PnP rules should be them same either. I can give you a million examples of things that are UNPRACTACLE in PnP that aren't DDO (attacks of oppurtunity, bull rush, grapple etc), why can't there be something practicle in DDO that there isn't in PnP (intimidate is already not the same anyways). Multiclasses do make the best intimitanks. 2 fighter, 2 rogue, 12 paladin combos anyone?



7.
Or just use any of the dozens of spells at your disposal, FW isnt the only answer. Only thing that may need "fixing" is to keep the best FW dealing damage. Hate when I put down a max emp sup potencied critted etc... FW only to be rendered useless by another arcane or even worse by an UMDing rogue.

Yes, but its the main static AoE damage spell. Only having 2 fws up would help. This is also solves the problem of rogues or an additional caster, as everyone is useful.

Overall, your comments are insightful, especially in regards to number 1. I have always been a fan of making DDO a good PvE game, as opposed to making it resemble PnP (it still has a nice PnP feel though)

Ranmaru2
11-03-2008, 07:33 PM
If one knows how to lay down FWs you can still do plenty of dmg with two.............

Gennerik
11-03-2008, 07:39 PM
Haflings and Elves are the main 2 finnesse builds, and haflings are superior to elf in almost every way, so why not make elves better and compare them. And your right about the arcanum... at least make it apply to bards.

I can see your point. However, elves are traditionally more magic-focused than melee-focused, even if you're talking about finesse. Many of the halfling benefits are because they are small instead of medium, and that makes them just a little more defensive and able to get into tight corners.


Which rules do you speak of? THF should have a limited damage boost, and THF feats need fixing as well (bonuses to glancing blow attack damage isn't cutting it) Fix 3 things - fighters, THF feats, and THF in one fix.

I think adding glancing blow effects would be enough to help out Two-handed Fighters.


procs would be nice, but DDO has alot of randomness as it is, semi-consistant damage is needed.

He's talking PrCs (Prestige Classes), not weapon/armor procs.


Uh... why not? PnP is not the same as DDO, therefore PnP rules should be them same either. I can give you a million examples of things that are UNPRACTACLE in PnP that aren't DDO (attacks of oppurtunity, bull rush, grapple etc), why can't there be something practicle in DDO that there isn't in PnP (intimidate is already not the same anyways). Multiclasses do make the best intimitanks. 2 fighter, 2 rogue, 12 paladin combos anyone?

Really, the only thing to justify Intimidate as a class skill would be the ability to use Diplomacy to enrage an opponent (Which is entirely plausible). That would mean that you'd have to allow Diplomacy to generate hate as well as reduce it, depending on how you set it. An easier way would just make Intimidate a Paladin class skill.


Yes, but its the main static AoE damage spell. Only having 2 fws up would help. This is also solves the problem of rogues or an additional caster, as everyone is useful.

And for most monsters encountered, AoE spells are the only way to go, since they have inflated hit points and direct damage spells don't have enough of a punch except on most bosses. So I think it's a valid complaint, though it's boring only casting Firewall. I'd like to see more persistent AoE spells, even if they are new to just DDO.

Vivanto
11-04-2008, 05:01 AM
Gennerik answered to most of your points already :)


Haflings and Elves are the main 2 finnesse builds, and haflings are superior to elf in almost every way, so why not make elves better and compare them. And your right about the arcanum... at least make it apply to bards.
And drow.
All the racial benefits halflings have are by pnp rules, same as elves. Should never change basic rules like classes or races, the only way to augment them could work trough enchancements. Good point on the bards, but I don't recall it being favoured class for any race (correct if I'm wrong), could better do with some class enchancements not racial.
What p..ses me off the most is that elves indeed got some laughable racial upgrades. Save vs enchantements, come on whats that?? Halflings got passive save enchas on each saves they choose, dwarves got 1 line for all 3 saves vs spells, so why come elves only get to save vs only willpower and only from 1 specific school? The only way it's usefull is for a rogue with slippery mind.




Which rules do you speak of? THF should have a limited damage boost, and THF feats need fixing as well (bonuses to glancing blow attack damage isn't cutting it) Fix 3 things - fighters, THF feats, and THF in one fix.
The rule that THF dosen't give any allacrity bonus.




Uh... why not? PnP is not the same as DDO, therefore PnP rules should be them same either. I can give you a million examples of things that are UNPRACTACLE in PnP that aren't DDO (attacks of oppurtunity, bull rush, grapple etc), why can't there be something practicle in DDO that there isn't in PnP (intimidate is already not the same anyways). Multiclasses do make the best intimitanks. 2 fighter, 2 rogue, 12 paladin combos anyone?
What you're talking about is lack of implementation, not derailing from the rules. Giving a class a cross-class skill is breaking the rules. Again the most flexible way to alter some pnp aspects could be trough enchancements, I would look into improoving the pally thingy that generates more hate (can't remember its name).




Yes, but its the main static AoE damage spell. Only having 2 fws up would help. This is also solves the problem of rogues or an additional caster, as everyone is useful.
For AOE there are dozens of spells, lightning ball, coc, dbfb, ottilukes.. etc, same for DOT spells, burning blood, melf.. However you're right that there are only very few that both AOE and DOT, actually only got acid fog and fw iirc :/
Tho I never liked the big FW fests, not even in mod5 where casters ruled. Guess if you were never dependant of it it dosent feel like a big loss :) (and I did play my wizard as a nuker even with the lack of fw^^)




I have always been a fan of making DDO a good PvE game, as opposed to making it resemble PnP (it still has a nice PnP feel though)
And I hope it stays that way. Any game based on DnD should be PvE imo, sadly the grinding elements are killing every semblance of RP.
I don't get this whole PvP that's going on here either. :(

Mhykke
11-04-2008, 05:31 AM
1.
Your comparision is elf vs halfling yet it could very well be halfling vs everyone else.


http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/mykeuva/halflings-1.jpg

esoitl
11-04-2008, 05:43 AM
Why do people feel every class and every style should be the same?

I agree with maybe 2 of these, a feat for +1 AC with shield would be nice but no need to make up a rule to do so. The people who created D&D in the first place made specific rules for a purpose and in my opinion they are solid rules. The problem is in the adaptation from the pen and paper game to online and the attack speed. Although this does introduce one set of problems there is no need to make up rules merely for the sake of making them up.

Two-weapon fighting is money in DDO merely because of the reverse scaling BAB but in my opinion it had to be done. TWF was limited in the P&P game as the attacks scaled down, therefore you would get a slew of attacks but many would miss whereas a THF would hit about the same number of times but do more damage per hit. With the upward scaling so many TWF attacks hit and there really isn't much of a downside to it whereas THF have to deal with their P&P side of it.

It ucks for sure but there really isn't a way to fix it. I agree that any effect should apply to the glancing blows and that would add a little bonus to the system and not need to make rules for....

Comparing any race is a fruitless effort. Each has their strengths and each their weakness. Some have nice enhancements, some don't. Get over it...
I would hardly call any race superior though as play around with the character planner and you can get very close results using different races.