How do you deal with tough air elementals

[NXPlasmid]

So, the reaver air elementals on elite don't finger or distruct easily. The group I was in used fear rather well to keep them, or at least some of them at bay. Wounding or weakening weapons? Ranged? But perhaps there are spells like enervation or others that might help to soften them up or slow them down?

[Phidius]

Without a charge to keep your feet I don't know of any weapon that would do any good... I would think they would pounce on someone ranging them.

From an arcane perspective, I'd say Mind Fog/Disco Ball on the fighter area and on the pillar to the right of the entrance (to protect your healer and fighter), then get your charge from the Reaver and head over to the other side of the room to kill them off when they spawn.

As long as you have your charge, they'll stay on you (and in your AOE) long enough to die. Once you start getting tossed around, your survival chances will plummet.

Enervate will make your insta-kill spells more likely to land, but I've had to hit them with 4-5 enervates before they finally drop.

[gfunk]

My ranger always uses a w/p bow in reaver.. even prior to change. My fighter used to use a curse-spewing returning axe.. just for some fun, but I will be switching to some sort of wounding ranged weapon. I would imagine that if a party that had a good proportion of people equiped with ranged wounders, the casters in the party wouldn't have much problem landing foritude-save insta-kill spells.

[moops]

WE used Curse/shattlermantle bows, backed up by w/p, firewalls, and blade barriers.
Everyone can get a charge just to melee the eles--On my Necro based cleric with 25 Spell Pen, I never got a Destruction or Banish to land.

Next time I am in there I will prob try Contagion.

[Talcyndl]

My ranger always uses a w/p bow in reaver.. even prior to change. My fighter used to use a curse-spewing returning axe.. just for some fun, but I will be switching to some sort of wounding ranged weapon. I would imagine that if a party that had a good proportion of people equiped with ranged wounders, the casters in the party wouldn't have much problem landing foritude-save insta-kill spells.

I think it should, but does con damage actually lower fortitude saves?

[Phidius]

WE used Curse/shattlermantle bows, backed up by w/p, firewalls, and blade barriers.
Everyone can get a charge just to melee the eles--On my Necro based cleric with 25 Spell Pen, I never got a Destruction or Banish to land.

I could have missed it, but I don't recall seeing any blue shields indicating a spell pen failure. Is it spell pen that's failing, or are they making their saves?

I find Banish to be a funny spell - I've killed air elementals with Phantasmal Killer many a time, yet hardly ever with a Banish/Dismissal. And yet the will save for PK is around half of the Banish - it's like they get a huge bonus to saves against banishment versus just being immune.

[admcorbin]

I'd agree with you.. but have you seen the CR difference between the Normal mode and the Elite mode Ele's? Elite Mode Ele's are like CR 29 now. and normal mode are CR 17. Additionally. My question is why isn't the balance vs whirlwind attacks working. I routinely with a 25 balance skill and being a monk improved evasion get knocked off my feet even though I make the save vs the whirlwind attack and make the balance check i still end up on my backside. This needs to be a priority to fix this bug otherwise people are just going to avoid doing anything with an air elemental because they 're almost impossible to deal with at that level.

[ArkoHighStar]

mind fog

[Strykersz]

Run around in circles dropping fw's willy-nilly. They made them either slower or more indecisive when faced with a single moving target and I'm able to keep ahead of them pretty easily.

[MrWizard]

do those disease spells work on them as far as lowering constitution?
if it does, does that affect their saves?
shattermantle for the spell pen challenged helps.
do not htink they are immune to crippling which would really slow their movements down..good thing for a ranger in there with cripple, shattermantle, curse, destruction, etc to help everyone out...I would think.
sloq spell is a will save I believe which will really work with cripple I believe and slow down attacks and lower ac.


of course....if you can bring in a real high speed fan from a stage play, you could pretty much keep them at bay.

or just bring on one uber specialized player with all the gear in the world and special specs to bring them all to him and then take care of all of them.

or cast hypno...a lot.

too bad charming breaks the whole dungeon....persuasion used to be cool in there.

[MrCow]

does con damage actually lower fortitude saves?


do those disease spells work on them as far as lowering constitution?

A lowered CON will reduce fortitude saves on monsters.

In regards to the idea of using Contagion to lower their CON... you may want to scrap that idea. Contagion is a fortitude save and the issue is the fortitude saves to begin with. :p


do not htink they are immune to crippling which would really slow their movements down

Most things that move at or over 130% movement speed do not slow down from effects like crippling and exhaustion (such as air elementals and speedy rats).


They made them either slower or more indecisive when faced with a single moving target and I'm able to keep ahead of them pretty easily.

Depending on where you are running you can observe some other oddities in the air elementals as well. They tend to do stop-and-go motions when you plant Walls of Fire near the blue barrier while standing or running near it.

[cdbd3rd]

In dealing with tough air ellies:

I find that if I can outrun the halfling(s), I'm pretty much safe....

:rolleyes:

:D

[gfunk]

I think it should, but does con damage actually lower fortitude saves?

yeah... wounding totally helps. It's funny how many people dont realize that though. I was in shroud a couple weeks ago with my ranger, and was "roaming" with a wizi through part 1. My ranger was using puncturing on everything, and between that and the better dc's for the wizard, things were dying quickly. Funny thing was, the wiz exclaimed at how great his FOD's were working and attributed it to his head of good fortune that he had just pulled!! lol....

[MrWizard]

yeah... wounding totally helps. It's funny how many people dont realize that though. I was in shroud a couple weeks ago with my ranger, and was "roaming" with a wizi through part 1. My ranger was using puncturing on everything, and between that and the better dc's for the wizard, things were dying quickly. Funny thing was, the wiz exclaimed at how great his FOD's were working and attributed it to his head of good fortune that he had just pulled!! lol....

so...there you go..... a good caster with spell pen and heighten...just one.
a good ranger or two with con damage ranged weapons
A few dancing ball crazy people (always got them in there)
pop...pop....pop....pop...pop.... where did all the ellies go?
Everyone else should have some kind of ranged weapon too, heck they drop like everywhere with wounding, destruction, and half a dozen other things...
10 people blasting at them before they get there or while dancing.

And a sorc foding them all..

[juniorpfactors]

w/p repeaters do wonders


jrp

[moops]

Contatgion doesn't appear to have to pass SR, so it might work. I know clerics who use that in Devil's Elite to help the w/p out--I myself have never used this spell.


A lowered CON will reduce fortitude saves on monsters.

In regards to the idea of using Contagion to lower their CON... you may want to scrap that idea. Contagion is a fortitude save and the issue is the fortitude saves to begin with. :p

[Talcyndl]

yeah... wounding totally helps. It's funny how many people dont realize that though. I was in shroud a couple weeks ago with my ranger, and was "roaming" with a wizi through part 1. My ranger was using puncturing on everything, and between that and the better dc's for the wizard, things were dying quickly. Funny thing was, the wiz exclaimed at how great his FOD's were working and attributed it to his head of good fortune that he had just pulled!! lol....

He had the good luck to be running with a smart ranger.

:)

[Noctus]

Some people seem to have conused Spell Penetration checks and saves.

These are two totally distinct mechanics which dont interact in any way. Some monsters have Spell Resistance, if you fail on this you see a blue shield pop up. All monsters have Saves you need to beat in order to affect them with most spells (some spells allow no save).

Your spell penetration score is irrelevant against a monster with no SR (like Air Elementals). If a monster has SR, you need to beat that SR first, then the monster rolls its save to see if it can resist your spell. If it doesnt save, it gets fingerd / banished / charmed / full damage and so on.

If oyu want to be better at keeping Air Elementals incheck invest in Spell Focus Feats, not Spell Penetration, even if the numerical bonus is higher on Spell Penetration feats. (you dont need to have the biggest, baddest battleram in all the northern kingdoms, it is still useless if the door you want to break down isnt even closed.)

[moops]

This is my bad, I had thought that I had gotten a Spell Resitence Failure a few times when I did it after mod 8 went live.


Some people seem to have conused Spell Penetration checks and saves.

These are two totally distinct mechanics which dont interact in any way. Some monsters have Spell Resistance, if you fail on this you see a blue shield pop up. All monsters have Saves you need to beat in order to affect them with most spells (some spells allow no save).

Your spell penetration score is irrelevant against a monster with no SR (like Air Elementals). If a monster has SR, you need to beat that SR first, then the monster rolls its save to see if it can resist your spell. If it doesnt save, it gets fingerd / banished / charmed / full damage and so on.

If oyu want to be better at keeping Air Elementals incheck invest in Spell Focus Feats, not Spell Penetration, even if the numerical bonus is higher on Spell Penetration feats. (you dont need to have the biggest, baddest battleram in all the northern kingdoms, it is still useless if the door you want to break down isnt even closed.)

[Missing_Minds]

edit: strike that. got it confused with Ghouls Touch.

[Meriadeuc]

Has anyone tried using elemental empathy on them? I've found it to be very effective against air elementals in other quests, since it has a very good DC (with a high level ranger) and since using it doesn't break stealth. A ranger with good stealth can mesmerize up to 7 air elementals without ever being detected, at which point it is a trivial matter to take them out with a w/p bow.

[Phidius]

Has anyone tried using elemental empathy on them? I've found it to be very effective against air elementals in other quests, since it has a very good DC (with a high level ranger) and since using it doesn't break stealth. A ranger with good stealth can mesmerize up to 7 air elementals without ever being detected, at which point it is a trivial matter to take them out with a w/p bow.

I like the sound of that - be sure to let us know how it works out!

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Has anyone tried using elemental empathy on them? I've found it to be very effective against air elementals in other quests, since it has a very good DC (with a high level ranger) and since using it doesn't break stealth. A ranger with good stealth can mesmerize up to 7 air elementals without ever being detected, at which point it is a trivial matter to take them out with a w/p bow.

Oh. Goody. Now rangers can take the place of casters as well :p

[esoitl]

I'm wondering if using a GoP style of tactics would work on this?

Setting up the tank and Cleric in the normal spot, having a healer and casters where the Stormreaver comes in and dropping Acid Fog/Solid Fog and Wall of Fire all over the spawns. When doing the shield chest in GoP our group always fogged and fired the two spawns and they hardly spawned.

Mind you they are much weaker in GoP but I think this could be used to mitigate some of the damage. Rangers and such can range at will.

[...v...]

So, the reaver air elementals on elite don't finger or distruct easily. The group I was in used fear rather well to keep them, or at least some of them at bay. Wounding or weakening weapons? Ranged? But perhaps there are spells like enervation or others that might help to soften them up or slow them down?

It's very easy, I think Reavers is better now. It's not the same old run in finger everything do puzzle and run out, next. I find it funny watching people getting tossed around like rag dolls, but back to the point first you'll need a some real casters not these finger of death newbs. Solid fog and lots of firewalls, just need to make sure the giant doesnt run into the firewalls so dont extend them or put them by the giant like some idiots do.

[sirgog]

Melees should get a charge and Wound and/or Puncture the eles to death in melee while charged.

[Meriadeuc]

I like the sound of that - be sure to let us know how it works out!

Unfortunately, I'm not Reaver eligable (never could be bothered collecting all of those relics), so someone else is going to have to test it in the Reaver raid.

[Boldrin]

I feel happy!!!! Good for those poor defenseless air ellies!!! Now the melees will actually have something to do.