Mod 8 Review - The Good, the Bad, & The Ugly

[Holgar]

I am not an uber-player, but I am a little above average. I have 3 capped characters, each with a couple Tier II Green Steel Items, and only one who is close to having a Tier III. That should give you an idea of my status: I don't play nonstop but I play more than a "casual" player.

Based on that, here is my assessment of Mod 8. I will focus on the things that I experienced directly.

THE GOOD

1) Stealer of Souls: It seems strange to start at the end, but this is definitely the best part of Mod 8. I ran the Stealer of Souls quest yesterday. Only one player in the group had completed it successfully before, and 4 of us had never stepped foot in it. We won, but it was **** challenging. It required a lot of "on the spot strategy" and teamwork. This was an awesome quest. Another reason this quest was great: no puzzles that involved pulling up an online solver on my laptop! There is one major issue with this quest (and with the Frost Dragon quest) that I discuss below in "the Ugly".

2) Dragontouched Plate Armor: My main character (Holgar) is a 14 Paladin / 2 Fighter. For him the new armor was very welcome (puts my base AC up to 51). The plate armor looks beautiful. My main complaint is that "Fearsome" should NOT be an option, as it is essentially a negative effect on most tanks. Since I got the "Fearsome" effect on my armor, I cannot bring it into quests like the Shroud (except when fighting the Pit Fiend, who is immune) until I get it changed. That much is disappointing, but otherwise this was a welcome change to a non-uber player who could not afford the Dragon Scale Plate Armor (and I didn't like the way it looked either! :))

3) New Encounter Areas: I really enjoyed the Mount Reysalon and the Frost Valley the most. Great looks, and able to be overcome by 2-3 non-uber Characters with a modicum of strategy. Note: I only zerged through the Eerie Forest to get to Sorjek, so I have yet to explore that area fully.

4) Using old Encounter Areas: Some have complained about this, but I loved it. I thought it was fun running through the Desert, Gianthold, and Orchard (three great areas). Sure, we were a lot tougher than those areas warranted, but sometimes it's nice to flex your muscles a bit. And you only have to do it once per toon, so I don't see it as any kind of long-term grind. It took an average group about 20 minutes per area to get everyone their gem, and sometimes we were lucky and got them all in like 5 minutes.

5) Korthos Island & the NPE: I got "stuck" in Korthos on the first day, so I had a look around. And I created one test character to run the opening quest, as well. In general, all of this is great. The atmosphere works, the quests are challenging without being too hard, and so on. I think Misery's Peak is a good example of what a "long quest" should be, especially for low level characters.

THE IN-BETWEEN

1) Reaver Raid: I ran the Reaver Raid (as the main tank), and we were able to complete it on Elite. The Raid was boring before, so I was glad some effort was made to make it more of a challenge. However, beefing up Air Elementals does not seem the way to go here. People HATE the Air Elementals because their save DC's are extremely high and therefore they can only be taken out in a few different ways. I think if Turbine lowered the save DC's of the Air Elementals so that melees could engage them, people would not complain so much about this change.

2) Subterrane: I ran this a few times. No special pulls for me, but it gave something for people to do, so I don't see the harm in it. If you can pull +2 tomes every once in a while (didn't see any pulled in my 3 runs), I think that's fine. I think the purpose of this is to lower the cash value of certain items (bloodstone, +2 tomes, etc). I mean, if something is worth 10,000,000 gp (no exaggeration), I think it encourages people to buy from plat farmers, and this may be the reason Turbine has offered this area up for looting. I will be proven wrong if they nerf the chest with today's update.

3) Prey on the Hunter: This quest looked absolutely beautiful. However, I am not a fan of timed quests in general, and the need to find your way through a random maze in a certain amount of time or fail the whole quest is not thrilling for me. For some reason, the timed element of Stealer of Souls didn't bother me, but maybe that's because we completed the quest with 20 minutes to spare, so it didn't seem like the timed element was meant to do anything other than keeping us from wasting time or continuously recalling for mana, etc.

4) The Monastery: I am not a fan of brain-burning puzzle quests (I know many players are), so I did not much enjoy the Monastery. I have heard that you can ignore most of the puzzles, which is cool, but I was kind of mentally overwhelmed the whole time. Perhaps I will enjoy it more if I know how to avoid the puzzles.

THE BAD

1) The Kobold Quest: The end fight in the Kobold Quest is just ridiculous, as others have pointed out. That said, I did enjoy the concept of the fight, so if Turbine fixes it up so that it's doable without evasion tanks (i.e. removes one or two of the ellies, doesn't respawn the living spells), then I think it will be much more fun. As it stood, you needed evasion tanks AND you needed weakening / enfeebling weapons to disable the living spells. I like quests that allow for more creative options.

THE UGLY

1) The Literally Ugly: I saw a lot of people wearing the same ugly armor, and realized that was the Breastplate of Destruction. I would be disappointed if I owned one. There were 2 Warforged in our group who completed Stealer of Souls, and they did not seem pleased with the look of the Dragontouched Docent. Both of these issues will be resolved if Turbine ever lets us customize our armors. I really hope they consider doing so. If anything, it may soon seem a bit funky that all the non-evasion tanks will all be wearing the same looking dragontouched armor!

2) Wounders: This is the biggest problem with my future enjoyment of this game. I am a DPS player. Holgar is built for battling Red & Purple named enemies (there are many in Stealer of Souls, so that may be one reason I enjoyed it). However, the need for wounders is a major problem in DDO that is only going to get worse. The Frost Giants have so many hit points (the trash mobs seem to have at least 2,000+). So you need to smack them many, many times. Making them immune to vorps is fine, but you have now made it impossible to complete Prey on the Hunter without wounders. The last part of the quest is "timed", so you don't have time to beat up all the Frost Giants if you prefer the DPS route. Allowing enemies to be killed in 5 seconds with wounders and puncturers but take 60 seconds with DPS is a major problem, and it is only going to get worse as the game progresses. Stealer of Souls has this problem to a lesser extent because you still need wounders to kill the trash mobs since it's a timed quest. I finally "sold out" and bought a wounder on the AH this weekend because I could see that straight DPS was just not going to work in Prey on the Hunter, and I'm glad I had it for Stealer of Souls.

I think Turbine needs to seriously reduce the hp on mobs, and (sorry to say it) weaken the wounders and puncturers. I think if the high-end mobs had half the hit points and were less susceptible to wounders (perhaps wounders should only have 50% to wound and puncturers should only do 1d3 on a crit), people could have more of a choice of strategy. As it stands now, seeing an enemy go down to wounders in a couple seconds seems way too fast, and watching a DPS machine have to whack away 50 times seems quite a bit too slow. I know many will disagree, but I think this problem is just going to get worse and worse with each new update until it's resolved.

Well, that's where I'm at. I know many will disagree with me on the issue of wounders, but I personally think it will be bad for the future of the game if everyone only uses wounders or vorpals on trash mobs and only pulls out the big guns for the red and purples. If anything, it will lead to more and more red-named enemies (we already see this with Mod 8), which vastly reduces strategies for spellcasters.

Thanks for reading,

Holgar

[MrWizard]

well thought out review..

for prey of the hunter, the giants are pretty easy with a crowd control caster, but without one, I would not be sure other than drawing aggro how to control them too well.

I imagine all the fighter crowd control should work on them (they trip easy, try charming a dog and you will see) plus the enfeeble, weaken, etc..but yea lots of hit points.

I would not go with wounder as it will take forever, Try a 15-20 crit puncturer instead.
My caster had no problem, on normal, Flesh to stone-ing the giants in there, especially the clerics...maybe they wanted to make casters really needed here.

For the kobald fight, I would say there are many many ways to do that...just takes some time thinking about it...

We had done it by pulling them to the hole and just opening it...blasting them...then letting it close. Seems the spray does some damage to them also.
Another time we had a really good ranger hop, skip, and jump around first getting the aggro of most of it while the melees took out the main guy, then worked on the eles.

I think these things are hard or a pain at first until someone figures out a method that is palatable to most players...(then we are all forced to have to do it that way forever)...


Mod 8 seems great, but the direction they have been going, for raiding, just is not fun for me....but I think a large percentage of the player base likes that stuff, so I guess it is just perfect for some.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Thanks for feedback, found it constructive and helpful.

[Holgar]

well thought out review.

Thanks for reading it!


for prey of the hunter, the giants are pretty easy with a crowd control caster, but without one, I would not be sure other than drawing aggro how to control them too well.

I imagine all the fighter crowd control should work on them (they trip easy, try charming a dog and you will see) plus the enfeeble, weaken, etc..but yea lots of hit points.

I did not mind their level of power in general. They actually had trouble hitting my (then) AC of 49 + 3 (barkskin), which really surprised me. It is simply the disparity between wounding/puncturing vs. straight DPS that alarms me at the upper levels.


I would not go with wounder as it will take forever, Try a 15-20 crit puncturer instead.
My caster had no problem, on normal, Flesh to stone-ing the giants in there, especially the clerics...maybe they wanted to make casters really needed here.

Well, I am specc'd out for slashing, so unless I happen to stumble upon a keen rapier of puncturing, I will have to use my wounding of enfeebling longsword to be effective.


For the kobald fight, I would say there are many many ways to do that...just takes some time thinking about it...

We had done it by pulling them to the hole and just opening it...blasting them...then letting it close. Seems the spray does some damage to them also.
Another time we had a really good ranger hop, skip, and jump around first getting the aggro of most of it while the melees took out the main guy, then worked on the eles.

I think these things are hard or a pain at first until someone figures out a method that is palatable to most players...(then we are all forced to have to do it that way forever)....

After two hours, we completed by having our ranger do most of the fighting, and by opening the hole to blast the ellies with polar ray and cone of cold. Bottom line: as a non-DPS tank, my job was to pull a switch a million times. Not fun.

I think the end fight will be fine if it is tweaked a bit. I wouldn't even mind the end Kobold himself being tougher if the living spells didn't respawn. He seemed pretty weak once we finally (after 2 hours) got all the other stuff out of the way.

I like the quests that allow you to defeat them in a variety of ways with a variety of builds. I hate quests that require a specific combination of classes to be overcome.


Mod 8 seems great, but the direction they have been going, for raiding, just is not fun for me....but I think a large percentage of the player base likes that stuff, so I guess it is just perfect for some.

I agree, and I think we need more quests like the side quests in Gianthold (Maze of Madness, Trial by Fire, etc.). Put us up against a tough selection of enemies without a pigeon-holed tactic required at the end.

Holgar

[Holgar]

Thanks for feedback, found it constructive and helpful.

No problem, FlimsyFirewood. Thanks for reading and considering it! :)

Holgar

[Jefro]

Stuck on khoros is not a bug, you just have to finish the storyline and unfreeze the port by finishing misery peak. Why visit if you are not going to take in the sights :p


Enter the Kolbold: I enjoyed the puzzle and the fight with the first fire ele the first time can be challenging if someone zerged ahead. The end fight with constant respawning living spells is problem, usually stat influencing attacks or different methods have to keep them away from the party. Mephits and fire eles can be pulled into the hall to be delt with, but alot of care must be taken to not be overhelmed. This fight makes the quest its appropriate level, and best to remember such. Plus this is how a well round party helps, by having that evasion ranger, rogue or monk in party.

Monastery: This is the best quest in the mod, had fun and loved puzzles. But being the puzzle lover guess I have particular basis. The shroud-like puzzle is great as is, lots of people had practice from before, it just harder to let someone take a crack at it for the first time. None of them are impossible, so people should quelch that rumor now :p

Prey of the Hunter: Can be a tough quest, took few times myself to get hang of it to get to the point to being there while dragon still has between 60%-25%. The chests for choosing to fight the dragons is not worthwhile, though you are breaking your bargain. But maybe put some name loot for evil characters then, or some loot from the dragon's travels perhaps stuff versus mindflayers.

Stealer of Souls: Perfect as is quest, still may have to drink a mana pot or two but is doable as is, so lets hope the devs don't go around changing or breaking it. Though maybe a bigger reward for harder completion is in order, an extra chest is bland, maybe more draconic runes or named loot, like a name item for those not trying to get the dragon armor, like the dex builds.



Khoros island: Just awesome all around for starting out player. But does not show them the necessities of party-play.


The should revise the loot in old raids and quest chains to offer something for monks and more stuff for warforge, there really not many named docents in the game. And I like to see some of the items in the compendium that are not in the game be added :p

MIA items (items found in the compendium but not in the guide, some might not be in the game)

Armor:
+2 Mithral Chainrobe, +3 Stonemeld Full Plate, Deathstalker Armor (Leather armor), Kelmar's Vest (Studded Leather), Lesser Stonemeld Armor, Lesser Whirlwind Armor, Nargryl's Frypan (Breastplate)

Docents:
Disc of Bladewarding, Granite Sphere

Robes:
Magi Robe

Shields:
Dark Defender, Deneith Protector, SMACK, Whirling Buckler

Weapons:
Beater (Club), Biter (Long Sword), Chieftan's Morningstar, Darksting, Ikaris' Staff, Kelmar's Betrayal (Dagger), Kelmar's Justice (Warhammer), Plague's Fang (dagger), Wraithbane (Heavy Mace)

Everything Else:
Blizzard's Hide, Bone Amulet, Bracers of Magery (Tempest Spine), Clear Fang, Eye of Fire, Flamefang's Hide, Fortified Gauntlets, Golden Bracer, Helm of Detection (Irestone Inlet), Jasper Ring, Oven Mitts, Powder's Hide, Quintus' Sandals, Ruby Ring, Shadestone Necklace, Stormcleave Goggles (Stormcleave), Targath Amulet (Stormcleave), Teralin's Wedding Band (Abandoned Keep), Wightskin Belt, Zeef's Amulet

[Holgar]

Stuck on khoros is not a bug, you just have to finish the storyline and unfreeze the port by finishing misery peak. Why visit if you are not going to take in the sights :p

Well, I don't mind keeping new characters there until they complete Misery's Peak. But it seems silly to trap a level 16 character in newbie land just for taking a peek. However, I think this issue has been resolved with the update a couple days ago, so no biggie.



Enter the Kolbold: I enjoyed the puzzle and the fight with the first fire ele the first time can be challenging if someone zerged ahead. The end fight with constant respawning living spells is problem, usually stat influencing attacks or different methods have to keep them away from the party. Mephits and fire eles can be pulled into the hall to be delt with, but alot of care must be taken to not be overhelmed. This fight makes the quest its appropriate level, and best to remember such. Plus this is how a well round party helps, by having that evasion ranger, rogue or monk in party.

True enough. Except I'm not sure that you CAN complete it without an evasion tank. That's the part that bothers me.

Holgar

[ArkoHighStar]

Stuck on khoros is not a bug, you just have to finish the storyline and unfreeze the port by finishing misery peak. Why visit if you are not going to take in the sights :p


Enter the Kolbold: I enjoyed the puzzle and the fight with the first fire ele the first time can be challenging if someone zerged ahead. The end fight with constant respawning living spells is problem, usually stat influencing attacks or different methods have to keep them away from the party. Mephits and fire eles can be pulled into the hall to be delt with, but alot of care must be taken to not be overhelmed. This fight makes the quest its appropriate level, and best to remember such. Plus this is how a well round party helps, by having that evasion ranger, rogue or monk in party.

Actually it was aknown issue that brought the servers down for a patch, basically any character who was created before Korthos and then went to visit Korthos was stuck there unless a caster came and greater teleported you out or a GM helped you out

[Jefro]

I did not have that trouble, I went there to do misery peak and collaborator for favor. Though had a teleport mask just incase.




Another bad thing is runes do not stack, but if you swap editrich, tempest ect runes in a chest they stack.

really dislike my ingredient bag filling up! Gems not stacking also sucks.

[Tyrande]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTS the giants and still saved quite a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

[Tyrande]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTS the giants and still saved quite a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

Also, aren't spell casters have innate spell craft skills that will detect the nature of the spells themselves and hence have higher spell save DCs against living spells and spells casted? I found this to be the case in NWN2. Spell Craft of 40 = +8 save DCs against spells and with base reflex save, spell casters should save against spells more often than other characters who are not wielders of magic.

[ArkoHighStar]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTM the giants and still saved quiet a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

solo the quell, the beholder needs to be triggered so you do not have to deal with them. Unless you are trying to solo the giant raid leader, its just easier to look for the wolf and break the portal and then recall to get your gem. Want to get the giants use enervation then flesh to stone

[Tyrande]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTM the giants and still saved quiet a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

Also, aren't spell casters have innate spell craft skills that will detect the nature of the spells themselves and hence have higher spell save DCs against living spells and spells casted? I found this to be the case in NWN2. Spell Craft of 40 = +8 save DCs against spells and with base saves, spell casters should save against spells more often than other characters who are not wielders of magic.

[Gadget2775]

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

Prep the area outside the door with acid fogs, then let the DS out...It might take a bit if you haven't put anything into acid mastery; but it will work and you can solo it with a caster that way.

As a thought if you don't have the acid line; drop some of the crit improvements for fire. :eek:

[Tyrande]

Prep the area outside the door with acid fogs, then let the DS out...It might take a bit if you haven't put anything into acid mastery; but it will work and you can solo it with a caster that way.

As a thought if you don't have the acid line; drop some of the crit improvements for fire. :eek:

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

[Tyrande]

Prep the area outside the door with acid fogs, then let the DS out...It might take a bit if you haven't put anything into acid mastery; but it will work and you can solo it with a caster that way.

As a thought if you don't have the acid line; drop some of the crit improvements for fire. :eek:

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

If there is a feat called "Elemental Admixture" implemented which let you cast a spell of any element based on any spell you know, like wall of fire becomes wall of acid... that may be able to help or should I just roll a warforged wizard starting with a level of rogue!?!

[ArkoHighStar]

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

My sorcerer has acid fog and has acid/lightning enhancements, plus all the fire/ice enhancements

[Tyrande]

My sorcerer has acid fog and has acid/lightning enhancements, plus all the fire/ice enhancements

My sorceress go for all the spell penetration enhancements and specialized in high DCs and high spell penetration and heightened spell. i.e. As for damage, she has mostly fire and ice enhancements and those spells with empower and maximize. She does have lightning spells, but skip the acid spells as they are pretty weak. If there is a spell like vitrolic sphere, I may consider revising.

As of right now, the quests and monsters themselves are too restrictive and demands a certain build.

[Gadget2775]

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

If there is a feat called "Elemental Admixture" implemented which let you cast a spell of any element based on any spell you know, like wall of fire becomes wall of acid... that may be able to help or should I just roll a warforged wizard starting with a level of rogue!?!

I'm saying if you want to solo it then swap for the Acid Fog.

If you don't want to swap the spell you'll have to...


group with other players
not farm the Doom Spheres chest
come up with your own alternative solution

Just because someone chooses to play a Sorcerer (Read inferior caster :D) who prefers to solo doesn't mean the devs should modify an encounter created for a group.

Last thoughts; there are three rares in that area. All of them are able to drop the Gem. One of them is even a named Quell...Is that critter unfare to Clerics in the game? (My answer is no, cause other players love partying with Clerics ;))

[Merkinsal]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTM the giants and still saved quiet a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

I think a big reason I am enjoying the new content so much is that I have had to adapt and change the way I play my caster. I went back and picked up enervation which works great with the giants. Charm spells can be a great way to use the mephits as fireball shields. Enfeeblement and Exhasustion are great equalizers for the living spells. Debuffs, Charms, Crowd Control, Instakill, Buffs, and so on are all there and play a part and because if this, strategy and tactics now play a much greater part of the game. Even geared out gamers now have to think a bit to do well in the new quests. Not nearly as much run and swing, run and swing, cast the same spells the same way and rinse and repeat.

I hear somone say they had to change weapons. I hear someone say some different weapons are more usefull, other than dps or wps. I hear someone say different tactics by melee work well. I hear someone say some of the mobs are not vulnerable to the same effects. I think this is all good.

If the new mod meant simply more of the same in a different dungeon, that would have been disappointing. I can see I have a long, long way to go to become successful in these new quests on hard or elite and that has been something I have not experienced in a long time.

[Gadget2775]

My sorceress go for all the spell penetration enhancements and specialized in high DCs and high spell penetration and heightened spell. i.e. As for damage, she has mostly fire and ice enhancements and those spells with empower and maximize. She does have lightning spells, but skip the acid spells as they are pretty weak. If there is a spell like vitrolic sphere, I may consider revising.

As of right now, the quests and monsters themselves are too restrictive and demands a certain build.

What do they demand? Teamwork? A willingness to accept that a named critter in a level 17 area might require more than one person? A change in tactics from previous encounters?

Just because you've chosen to specialize doesn't mean an encounter is unbalanced or needs to be changed. It means you limited your choices.

[Holgar]

UPDATE: Got the Fearsome off my armor and replaced it with Greater Fire Resistance. Woohoo! :cool:

Holgar

[Tyrande]

What do they demand? Teamwork? A willingness to accept that a named critter in a level 17 area might require more than one person? A change in tactics from previous encounters?

Just because you've chosen to specialize doesn't mean an encounter is unbalanced or needs to be changed. It means you limited your choices.

I do not mind teamwork. I just hate people when they said you're "********". "Hurry up!". "Don't you know this quest?!"

You know, those "elite" types that "know it all".

[Tyrande]

I'm saying if you want to solo it then swap for the Acid Fog.

If you don't want to swap the spell you'll have to...


group with other players
not farm the Doom Spheres chest
come up with your own alternative solution

Just because someone chooses to play a Sorcerer (Read inferior caster :D) who prefers to solo doesn't mean the devs should modify an encounter created for a group.

Last thoughts; there are three rares in that area. All of them are able to drop the Gem. One of them is even a named Quell...Is that critter unfare to Clerics in the game? (My answer is no, cause other players love partying with Clerics ;))

IMHO, they should offer these "inferior" casters some other way to complete this quest. I did try to find a group for this quest. But all people wanted to do the last two days were "Subterrane loot run" for "Icy Raiment".

[Gadget2775]

IMHO, they should offer these "inferior" casters some other way to complete this quest. I did try to find a group for this quest. But all people wanted to do the last two days were "Subterrane loot run" for "Icy Raiment".

I'm a little confused...I was pretty certain we were discussing the Doom Sphere rare encounter and not a quest.

If you're referring to the flagging process for Sorjek the Doom Sphere is irrelevant; there are two other (as previously mentioned) rares in that area. Thusly there is an alternative method for Sorcs w/out Acid Fog to obtain the required gem if he or she needs to solo the area.


I do not mind teamwork. I just hate people when they said you're "********". "Hurry up!". "Don't you know this quest?!"

You know, those "elite" types that "know it all".

It's unfortunate if you've encountered that sort of behavior. Even more so with the mod being this new. That said; how does that reflect on the mod itself requiring specific builds or mobs being to restrictive?

[Gadget2775]

UPDATE: Got the Fearsome off my armor and replaced it with Greater Fire Resistance. Woohoo! :cool:

Holgar

Congratulations on the refit of your armor. Are you planning on leaving it with that mod or switching it out again? And how do you feel about the randomness associated with the DT Armor crafting?

[Tyrande]

It's unfortunate if you've encountered that sort of behavior. Even more so with the mod being this new. That said; how does that reflect on the mod itself requiring specific builds or mobs being to restrictive?

Well, people asked, can you do "this", or "that". If not, you don't get to join the group for that quest following the area.

[ArkoHighStar]

My sorceress go for all the spell penetration enhancements and specialized in high DCs and high spell penetration and heightened spell. i.e. As for damage, she has mostly fire and ice enhancements and those spells with empower and maximize. She does have lightning spells, but skip the acid spells as they are pretty weak. If there is a spell like vitrolic sphere, I may consider revising.

As of right now, the quests and monsters themselves are too restrictive and demands a certain build.

Every mod has favored a specialized build, mod 4 was insta kill, mod 5 was fire specced, mod 6 was acid/electric and crowd control fog, mod 8 is a mix and its actually quite good. Welcome to being a sorcerer where you trade utility for a specialtyand more power, which means you can't be good at everything unlike a wizard which is the reverse less power but more utility

[stockwizard5]

I am not an uber-player, but I am a little above average. ...

THE GOOD

1) Stealer of Souls: It seems strange to start at the end, but this is definitely the best part of Mod 8. I ran the Stealer of Souls quest yesterday. Only one player in the group had completed it successfully before, and 4 of us had never stepped foot in it. We won, but it was **** challenging. ...

2) Dragontouched Plate Armor: ... For him the new armor was very welcome (puts my base AC up to 51). The plate armor looks beautiful. My main complaint is that "Fearsome" should NOT be an option, ... That much is disappointing, but otherwise this was a welcome change to a non-uber player who could not afford the Dragon Scale Plate Armor ...

So let me get this straight - a self described "non-uber" player beats the highest newest quest in the game the FIRST TIME and got the equivelent of a double Tier 3 Armor THE FIRST TIME as well and that's Good?

Exhibit A and B of why a huge segment of your player-base is very unappy :(

[Issip]

I generally agree with most of the OP comments, on the positive I can say I like the appearance of the new wilderness areas, but overall I have to say that I've been on since pre-order, and Mod8 is the first Mod that has been released that I really haven't had fun with. I have not done it all yet, but so far I'm struggling.

The biggest problem I'm having is inventory. I have draconic runes, eldrich runes, gems with strange names on them, essences filling my bags and most of my high end toons (at least the ones that have adventured into the new areas) are crippled with overflowing inventory. I can't even loot the new wilderness areas without having to sell after every run. I sent anything I could get by without in my pack to whatever lowbies still had a few spaces, and vendored loot I'd been saving for months just to free up space and more **** I need to hold onto keeps piling up. Doing the shroud definately won't be any fun on these toons until I can turn in some of that **** - I was already at the point where I'd be deciding which loot to just leave in the chests - now it would have to be half or more.

I sent a bunch of stuff down to a lowbie fighter of mine only to find out he was in the Wavecrest when the new Mod came out and is trapped on the Island. I started going through the quests to get him off the Island but I got bored after an hour or so. I suppose the loot I sent him will eventually get sent back to the toon that sent it, or I'll really get bored and get him off teh stupid Island.

The kobald quest - don't really like it. I took ooze puppet on my sorc to help get through it. Did a great job sneaking around and charming all the spells and mephits, but even then it wasn't good enough and the fire eles tear through me even with cold shield, fire prot and fire resist on. On normal I ended up dying so many times my items broke, then what was left of my inventory filled up with my broken **** which I could no longer equip. I tried to put on other items to clear my inventory, but some items I don't ahve more than one of (one pair of boots does me fine) so I couldn't loot at the end without 1) destorying valuable items looted previously in the quest or 2) having somone hold the quest while i recall to repair and sell. Killing the kobalds was kinda fun, but not really fun, a little too easy and the end was just a long drawn-out mess.

Prey the Hunter - Don't much like it. Half the time the walls/floors bug out and you can't get through - just stand there letting the giants wail on you hoping the floor will break - get sick of it, kill all the giants, go find more and drag them down and hope the floor breaks this time... Probably wouldn't bother me too much if you didn't have to get extremely lucky and/or repeat the quest 50 times to figure out all the permeations of their "random" maze. Running like mad through a maze that changes randomly knowing if you don't guess right you're screwed - not fun. In fact the hours that I spent in this quest are about the least fun I've had in this game.

My other peeve is the great raiment give-away. I know - "what does someone else getting loot hurt you?" and of course it doesn't. I ran some subterraine and gave away a bunch of raiments to guildies and random people - I don't care if they get them and I don't blame them for taking the easy raiments. However, I spent about 4 months trying to get mine. I sacked GoP 6-7 times before I did. I didn't mind - they were extreme loot and extremely rare - as it should be. To go through all of that and then have Turbine give them away essentially free does make a fool out of me though. Kind of makes me not want to put effort into obtaining anything in the game as it may just be given out next week. I don't know if they actually changed that - I don't think they should change it back all sloppy now - just screws the players who weren't online for the past 5 days, but it's a real slap to those who put in weeks tirelessly trying for the raiments.

Normally when a new Mod comes out I'm absorbed into the game for days, this time I can't think of what to do on any of my toons that would be fun, with their inventory all stuffed even the old content isn't fun as I can't even keep the junk I loot.

Have you guys (Turbine) been talking to my wife? She is loving it, as instead of being sucked into the game I'm spending more time with her and more time doing stuff around the house.

Oh, and on closing, I know there's a lot of trolls out there dying to tell me how stupid I am for not being able to solo all this yadda yadda - I don't care - I'm just saying this mod is the first one that has really not been any fun for me, I'm entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to yours.

[EightyFour]

I would say that I agree in general with the OP comments.

On the subject of wounders and wounding of Puncturing weapons. To the OP, think about what people had to go through to get those weapons, I'm not saying it's right to have people with WoP's take down a mob 10 times faster than straight DPS, but I don't think it would be right to make a change that totally gimped WoP's either.

I wish straight DPS would be a more viable option. As I understand it mob's were being taken out with straight DPS to fast and mob's had a hard time hitting higher AC characters. So there were changes made so that the mob's could hit harder, swing better, and resist damage better than a maxed out con barbarian. That is about the point WoP's became so good, before that I remember when people would pick one up and sell the thing to a vendor. No one cared for them unless you were a low str character.

I remember when my two weapon fighter had a 42 AC before Mod 3 came out and there were several people asking about my build. Now he's level 16 and sitting at a 45 AC which a laughable to say the least now for avoiding damage.

Now can I move the raid gear and all the bound equipment over to a new character? No, so if I want to improve him I'm going to have to start from scratch, which means dropping a lot of time and effort. It's going to happen at some point but I'm going to keep putting it off for as long as I can, for now he gets out to see the sun every now and again, but rarely.

He's turned to WoP's and WoE weapons now to over come several of his problems, if those lose their power than he is just a total gimp with lots of time and energy wasted on him.

I would almost say the best thing to do would be blanket nerf all the mob's hp, bring down AC's maybe a point or two at the most. And start bringing down there to hit ratio's a bit to put them more in the line of say a high of +35 to +40 and trash mob's to say +30.

I know a little help would be nice in this area, however if it's brought down to much than we go back to complaints of things being to easy. I wish I had better answers, but I just play the game, I don't know all the details of how it works.

As for now I guess I just have to trust the professionals know what they are doing.

[Junts]

My sorceress go for all the spell penetration enhancements and specialized in high DCs and high spell penetration and heightened spell. i.e. As for damage, she has mostly fire and ice enhancements and those spells with empower and maximize. She does have lightning spells, but skip the acid spells as they are pretty weak. If there is a spell like vitrolic sphere, I may consider revising.

As of right now, the quests and monsters themselves are too restrictive and demands a certain build.


Use an enervate scroll, then cast FTS.

Promise it works better.

On elite, use two.

Spell pen doesnt help you with high saves, they have high saves.

[Holgar]

Congratulations on the refit of your armor. Are you planning on leaving it with that mod or switching it out again? And how do you feel about the randomness associated with the DT Armor crafting?

I will probably keep the Resist Fire. It saves spell points and, more importantly, helps me against fire-wielding debuffers (like the Gnoll Lieutenant in the Shroud).

My Tempest Rune got me Protection +5. Frees up a Ring slot, so no complaints there.

My Sovereign Rune got me something I can't use: Superior Combustion VII. So I will probably run the quest series again to get a new one. Or explore a LOT to get 120 draconic runes...

In general, I don't mind the randomness, because the armor itself is so great on its own. The bonus abilities are icing. :)

Holgar

[Holgar]

So let me get this straight - a self described "non-uber" player beats the highest newest quest in the game the FIRST TIME and got the equivelent of a double Tier 3 Armor THE FIRST TIME as well and that's Good?

Exhibit A and B of why a huge segment of your player-base is very unappy :(

Personally, I do think this is a good thing. Why shouldn't quests be completed on the first time on normal with a good group who works together? It certainly helped the party leader had completed it once before, but even he wasn't sure of how to do certain things due to our party mix. That made it even more fun.

Did I complete the quest on Hard or Elite? Nope, and I bet I would have a lot of trouble doing so at my current power level. Is my armor complete? Nope. I will doubtless need to run the quest series a few more times until I find a satisfactory Sovereign Rune effect.

Would you prefer that I run a raid 20 - 40 times hoping that the named item I want drops for me? Especially when the best named armor out there for my build before this was +5 Mith. Full Plate that dropped in VoD, a quest that is hard to accomplish without being part of a high-level guild?

I am thrilled that I am able to get some decent armor and have a good time at the same time. Why does it bother you that I can get good armor even though I'm not an uber player? It's not as if it hurts any other player in this game that I have suddenly catapulted (/sarcasm) from a 49 AC to a 51 AC, which is great for me but nothing compared to the 60-70 AC I see listed regularly on these forums.

I think the devs have started to consider the fact that the gap between different play styles (the "uber" and the "above average but not quite so uber") needs to close a bit. I think the looting in the Garamon area is another example of this. Grinding six months for one item? No thanks, I'll run Garamon a few times to see if I can find what I need! At the very least, those items might at least come down on the AH to a level that non-ubers can afford (Bloodstones and +2 Tomes, for example).

Holgar

[sirgog]

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

What level 6 spell is even close to the power of Acid Fog?

If you are a WF, I could see you answering Reconstruct. Otherwise, Acid Fog does more damage than any other level 6 spell and keeps you (plus other party members) alive.

[Holgar]

I would say that I agree in general with the OP comments.

On the subject of wounders and wounding of Puncturing weapons. To the OP, think about what people had to go through to get those weapons, I'm not saying it's right to have people with WoP's take down a mob 10 times faster than straight DPS, but I don't think it would be right to make a change that totally gimped WoP's either.

EightyFour,

I hear you regarding the work spent to achieve WoP weapons, and any kind of nerf to a character that people spent a lot of time on is a total pain. I know, believe me, because my previous main (1.5 years ago) was a pally/rogue evasion tank and got double-nerfed all at once (due to evasion fix and paladin nerfing), so I know a bit how it feels.

Unfortunately, I'm just not sure how in the world to balance the game just by lowering mobs' hit points. I think the WoP issue is just going to continue to escalate. The only other solution I can think of is to keep the weapons just as they are, but to gradually make mobs more resistant to them (like we've already seen against disruptors, banishers, etc. and are starting to see now against vorpals). That will allow folks to enjoy them through level 16, but see them diminish in relative power as things go higher. So they'll still have their place in level 18+ content, but not vastly overshadow DPS as they currently do against regular (non-red/purple) enemies.

Of course, the mob hp's have to come down too for that to work. :)

Holgar

[sirgog]

EightyFour,

I hear you regarding the work spent to achieve WoP weapons, and any kind of nerf to a character that people spent a lot of time on is a total pain. I know, believe me, because my previous main (1.5 years ago) was a pally/rogue evasion tank and got double-nerfed all at once (due to evasion fix and paladin nerfing), so I know a bit how it feels.

Unfortunately, I'm just not sure how in the world to balance the game just by lowering mobs' hit points. I think the WoP issue is just going to continue to escalate. The only other solution I can think of is to keep the weapons just as they are, but to gradually make mobs more resistant to them (like we've already seen against disruptors, banishers, etc. and are starting to see now against vorpals). That will allow folks to enjoy them through level 16, but see them diminish in relative power as things go higher. So they'll still have their place in level 18+ content, but not vastly overshadow DPS as they currently do against regular (non-red/purple) enemies.

Of course, the mob hp's have to come down too for that to work. :)

Holgar

Another option is to make more use of a 4E concept (one of the few bits of that POS that I like) - Minions. Minions are mobs with extremely low HP (in 4E DDO it's 1hp, but they have a variant of Evasion). In DDO, this would mean mobs with, say, 160hp but a Con of 20. You could kill them with one tick of a firewall, one greataxe crit - or you could watch the poor Dex ranger crit them three times with their WoP rapiers and still not quite have killed them. On Hard or Elite, scale up the defenses of the Minions, and their quantity, but not their HP.

A fight with three 160hp Frost Giant Minions, plus one stock-standard 3400 HP Frost Giant Hunter (that's the approx figue on normal) would probably take a WoP ranger about the same number of attacks to solo as it would take a barb with one Deathnip and one Holy/Flaming Burst/Flaming Blast Radiance 2 rapier.

[sephiroth1084]

Another option is to make more use of a 4E concept (one of the few bits of that POS that I like) - Minions. Minions are mobs with extremely low HP (in 4E DDO it's 1hp, but they have a variant of Evasion). In DDO, this would mean mobs with, say, 160hp but a Con of 20. You could kill them with one tick of a firewall, one greataxe crit - or you could watch the poor Dex ranger crit them three times with their WoP rapiers and still not quite have killed them. On Hard or Elite, scale up the defenses of the Minions, and their quantity, but not their HP.

A fight with three 160hp Frost Giant Minions, plus one stock-standard 3400 HP Frost Giant Hunter (that's the approx figue on normal) would probably take a WoP ranger about the same number of attacks to solo as it would take a barb with one Deathnip and one Holy/Flaming Burst/Flaming Blast Radiance 2 rapier.

I can't see minions working in DDO. We have too many constant, damage-dealing effects. It'd be the same as running a lvl 16 Wiz or Cleric through the Harbor quests: throw down a FW or BB and watch them all die as they cross the barrier.

The reason minions work in 4E is because of how attacks vs. defenses works, and because there are so few persistent effects.

[Tyrande]

Use an enervate scroll, then cast FTS.

Promise it works better.

On elite, use two.

Spell pen doesnt help you with high saves, they have high saves.

LOL, I knew that.

However, enervate scrolls are a waste on monsters with spell resistance though,
because the scrolls are casted at a level 7 caster level.

[Tyrande]

instead of wasting scrolls, why not have the tempest rangers just WoP them to lower constitution and then kill them or just mass suggestion the wolves?

[Tyrande]

What level 6 spell is even close to the power of Acid Fog?

If you are a WF, I could see you answering Reconstruct. Otherwise, Acid Fog does more damage than any other level 6 spell and keeps you (plus other party members) alive.

power wise, the level 5 spell ball lightning or level 6 spell chain lightning does more damage sweeping like 10 innocent drowners (immune to fire) in the soami gardens than waiting for the acid fog to do damage. Also, the level 6 ice ball do more damage.

Even disintegration does more damage.

For level 6, I took disintegration for damaging constructs and undeads immune to fire.
Mass suggestion for crowd control living monsters.
Flesh to stone for monsters that are pretty much immune to everything like the frost giants and giants in the Tor.

Also, got a w/e weapon on standby. Hopefully, divine power clickies and master's touch ftw.

[Tyrande]

I'm a little confused...I was pretty certain we were discussing the Doom Sphere rare encounter and not a quest.

If you're referring to the flagging process for Sorjek the Doom Sphere is irrelevant; there are two other (as previously mentioned) rares in that area. Thusly there is an alternative method for Sorcs w/out Acid Fog to obtain the required gem if he or she needs to solo the area.

I tried solo the other two rares, believe one is a named lion and the otehr a named quell. Successfully slained them both but no gem. Instance does not seem to reset after recalling... bug?

[Tyrande]

Finally got the Omaekrix gem on the fourth recall soloing. I must say this is an unpleasant experience.
People won't do gem today. They are straight onto Sor'Jek.

[Gadget2775]

I tried solo the other two rares, believe one is a named lion and the otehr a named quell. Successfully slained them both but no gem. Instance does not seem to reset after recalling... bug?

Possible bug. Make sure you give it the full five min before re-entering...Alternatly get someone to throw you an invite, then drop group. Should force the instance to reset.


Finally got the Omaekrix gem on the fourth recall soloing. I must say this is an unpleasant experience.
People won't do gem today. They are straight onto Sor'Jek.

Congrats on getting the gem, condolences on it being a pain. I'd think that folks will be farming for the gems again before too long. The initial rush is to get to the new content...With how the DT armor works most people will need to pick up more of the runes to mod it. Pretty sure those drop along with the gems in the rare critters chest.

[sirgog]

Congrats on getting the gem, condolences on it being a pain. I'd think that folks will be farming for the gems again before too long. The initial rush is to get to the new content...With how the DT armor works most people will need to pick up more of the runes to mod it. Pretty sure those drop along with the gems in the rare critters chest.

The Draconic Runes are an alternative way to get Sovereign Runes instead of repeating Sor'jek, but at 120 Draconic Runes per Sovereign Rune, it's a LOT of farming.

I expect the gems will be quite a pain to get soon.

[moorewr]

Gem grinding sucks.. the chance is just too low.. I'm sure I'm just having bad luck but I have seriously ground out the desert chests (well, serious, given my limited game time) and only seen one or two gems drop for others in group. I'm trying to get one character flagged.. the other three capped toons.. god nows when I'll have them ready.

[Junts]

LOL, I knew that.

However, enervate scrolls are a waste on monsters with spell resistance though,
because the scrolls are casted at a level 7 caster level.


Nothing in this mod that needs to be fts'd has spell resist however :)

[Tyrande]

Nothing in this mod that needs to be fts'd has spell resist however :)

The next one probably will, since we're going to Shavarath. It will probably be titled: "Module 9: The Pain of Shedyourwealth".

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

So let me get this straight - a self described "non-uber" player beats the highest newest quest in the game the FIRST TIME and got the equivelent of a double Tier 3 Armor THE FIRST TIME as well and that's Good?

Exhibit A and B of why a huge segment of your player-base is very unappy :(

I can answer this one. You are mixing the concepts of min/max builds with being "uber." You are also calling yourself uber. Having never played with you before (read: dont take offense in what I'm about to say), I must say that many that claim uber are not uber, and furthermore ONLY DOMINATE in a limited number of quests...

A lot of these self-prescribed "uber players" have min/maxed their build AND playstyle to the ultra extreme, so that a very wisely designed build and playstyle can run circles around the cookie-cutter "uber" min/max builds, especially in MOD 8 content. I love watching these self prescribed elites do squat in a quest (except talk a lot) because their build is useless in the quest. D&D isnt about min/max specifically, its about building and playing toons that can dominate as many situations as possible. Its about teamwork. My fighter and wizard laugh at the new content (and no neither are evasion builds). The ACTUAL "uber players" walk the walk.. and some even talk the talk... but never have to claim it... their teamates do it FOR THEM.

The huge segment of the player base is VERY happy with the new content. I think its rough as hell... and thats GREAT because I had to really THINK how my toons can beat it... and that was WAY COOL! Thumbs up Turbine...

[Issip]

On the subject of WoP, especially in regard to Prey the Hunter - there are high level Frost Giant Clerics amoung the mobs. What would happen if their giant buddies asked for a restore when taking massive con damage? What if they used mass restore?

A small amount of AI could balance that all out with no WoP nerfing required, and no stupid non-dispellable blanket immunities. I had been assuming that enemy clerics would eventually learn mass restoration, it just never happened.

Take out the clerics and you can WoP all day, that's a small strategic price to pay for the 10-15X faster kills you can generate, and it brings strategy back into the game.

Oh, and newbie island - seems like a lot of places for new players to get lost and frustrated - I'm very seasoned and got lost and frustrated trying to get one of my toons off the island.

[Tyrande]

On the subject of WoP, especially in regard to Prey the Hunter - there are high level Frost Giant Clerics amoung the mobs. What would happen if their giant buddies asked for a restore when taking massive con damage? What if they used mass restore?

A small amount of AI could balance that all out with no WoP nerfing required, and no stupid non-dispellable blanket immunities. I had been assuming that enemy clerics would eventually learn mass restoration, it just never happened.

[...]

Perhaps the clerics aren't real clerics. They are favorite souls and the Devourer forgot to teach them "Greater Restoration". :)

Hate the WoP weapons drop in market value? (( not directing at you personally )) :)