Change to Reaver - utter waste of dev time

[Cold_Stele]

So the devs have increased mob saves to PK/FOD. Can't see the point myself but /meh.

What has really p*ssed me off is this - I go out for mana after buffing just to be on the safe side (as I've heard it's a lot harder). Main tank doesn't realise and runs forward, barrier comes down.

So I go back in, get killed by ellies and wait to go to dead room. I don't. My stone stays there between door and blue barrier. Quest ends, I'm still there.

Before the trolls start, I'm not p*ssed cos I missed the chests. If that was the case I'd have quit group and joined the next run.

What's getting me is that I simply cannot believe that the dev's time and our (the customers') money has been put into making a change as pointless as this, stopping latecomers getting chests.

I find it unbelievable that Turbine could not find better use for those resources - instead of new content we get a harder grind for the stuff we already have.

/stunned :confused:

[DaveyCrockett]

Hell, I'll pay extra to stop pikers.

[Razvan]

I find it unbelievable that Turbine could not find better use for those resources - instead of new content we get a harder grind for the stuff we already have.

/stunned :confused:

So, why are you running the quest?

Personally I find it refreshing that a raid is not a simple loot run anymore (for some pugs that is...it is still an easy raid)

[Cold_Stele]

So, why are you running the quest?

Personally I find it refreshing that a raid is not a simple loot run anymore (for some pugs that is...it is still an easy raid)

I'm running the quest the same reason as everyone else - doing it for my 20/40/60 end rewards cos I've got everything else.

I still got completion so that's not what worries me.

What does worry me is that we get limited new content but time and money spent on pointless changes - in this case late comers don't go to dead room.

Look, if Turbine had a perfect game or an unlimited development budget I wouldn't give a cr*p, but we all know that's far from the truth.

[MrWizard]

It should not be too hard. A few well placed symbols like pain, some curses, and a few balls...pk/fod...done.

Some shield blocking and using more than one tank...


no late joiners...no biggie.


Just some new strategy needed, some thinking, then back to boring again.


...

[Redd]

What has really p*ssed me off is this - I go out for mana after buffing just to be on the safe side (as I've heard it's a lot harder). Main tank doesn't realise and runs forward, barrier comes down.

:

Wow I didn't know ppl still called out after buffing :eek: I thought that was what recharge was for :rolleyes:

[Cold_Stele]

Wow I didn't know ppl still called out after buffing :eek: I thought that was what recharge was for :rolleyes:

/Sigh

Please read post - I recalled for mana just in case, as I knew it had changed.

It's called being prepared.

No, you're right - it's my fault they made the changes that effect late comers.

[miceelf88]

I took the OP to be focused not on the changes (which I think we all agree are no big deal), but rather on the fact that Devs are wasting their time jiggering with Reaver when there are FAR more pressing things to be dealt with. We have a raid that doesn't work at all, and the devs are working on preventing late comers to reaver from getting chests. We have ongoing lag issues and the devs are working on preventing late comers to reaver from getting chests. We have broken AI for some critters and the devs are working on preventing late comers to reaver from getting chests. We have hirelines starting later than originally planned/hoped and... well you get the picture.

I am 95% happy with the game, don't get me wrong, but I really wish they'd focus on the isolated, but glaring problems with the game, and not on changes that don't really impact anyone's fun factor at all...

[xberto]

It should not be too hard.


Just some new strategy needed, some thinking, then back to boring again.


...

I agree with Mr Wizard.

To the OP: No sence getting your panties in a bunch. I doubt the changes took much dev time as compared to creating new content from scratch. Besides, now the quest might require a little more interaction with players besides just the 2 or 3 we've need in the past..

[Milolyen]

Who says it was a waste of dev time and resources ... mabye it was a pet peeve of a dev and they made a quick change on their own time? You know kind of like what Codog did with the spinning while shrining? I don't think that a change like this would have been hard to make either. Just put an exclusion of "this" area on the code that ports people and stones up to the holding area.

Milolyen

[esoitl]

So let me get this straight.... you're complaining that people can no longer hitch a ride through a high level quest and don't get to loot because they came after it started?

*sob* muffin *sob*

No offense but hand-outs are never a good thing. I feel people shouldn't even be able to get in after the raid starts, this is at least something to stop handing out loot... I don't see any grounds on which to complain.

And by the way, taking the code out for sending people to the death room may have taken a day and some testing.... this wasn't a large allocation of resources, nor would it significantly take away from development time to new projects. It's a quick change to stop handouts, much like why they have the barrier and changed the chest looting system some time back.

[Cold_Stele]

So let me get this straight.... you're complaining that people can no longer hitch a ride through a high level quest and don't get to loot because they came after it started?

*sob* muffin *sob*

If you spent half the time actually reading my post rather than trolling you'd look as smart as this guy -


I took the OP to be focused not on the changes (which I think we all agree are no big deal), but rather on the fact that Devs are wasting their time jiggering with Reaver when there are FAR more pressing things to be dealt with.

I am 95% happy with the game, don't get me wrong, but I really wish they'd focus on the isolated, but glaring problems with the game, and not on changes that don't really impact anyone's fun factor at all...

Thankyou miceelf for actually taking the trouble to understand what this thread is actually about.

[juniorpfactors]

who really cares... I have not run this raid on the last 3 toons that are capped,,,,better loot out there

its old and been run into the ground

jrp

[BigBadBarry]

I thought they changed Air Ele's in general...rather than specifically in Reaver?

Also just use Enervate scrolls on the air ele's first if you're having trouble...no SR and no save...

[Josh]

What about the fact that the devs "won't go back and make changes to existing content"? You know, like changing the flagging mechanics for the dragon and dq raids? It's not the changes to this raid in and of itself, but the fact that changes were made at all that is bothers me. Why is it that we can get changes like this that nobody wanted / cares about, but changes that people have been clamoring about for ages go unheard (my personal pet peeve is beholders being broken for 2+ years)? I think that's the real issue at hand.

[shores11]

What's getting me is that I simply cannot believe that the dev's time and our (the customers') money has been put into making a change as pointless as this, stopping latecomers getting chests.
/stunned :confused:

Yea Devs, how dare you take the time to fix a quest to be played the way you intended it to be played. Suggestion for next Dev patch put a bypass button on the pop up screen when entering a dungeon for those characters that can not be bothered with actually running a quest the way DDO intended.

[Aspenor]

One important question of note is whether or not an untwinked level appropriate party can still complete the quest.

I am going to assume it's feasible but much more difficult. I personally have not run this quest, and probably never will again (except for favor).

[shores11]

What about the fact that the devs "won't go back and make changes to existing content"? You know, like changing the flagging mechanics for the dragon and dq raids? It's not the changes to this raid in and of itself, but the fact that changes were made at all that is bothers me. Why is it that we can get changes like this that nobody wanted / cares about, but changes that people have been clamoring about for ages go unheard (my personal pet peeve is beholders being broken for 2+ years)? I think that's the real issue at hand.

The reason is that these raids are running exactly as they intended them to be ran. I like the way the dragon and the demon queen are setup. I'm capped on all my characters and still go back and flag for those quests and run them.

Not everyone agrees with your assesment.

[Tourette]

I agree with the OP - I really do not care what the changes were - I care that they were made at all - there have been statements made that they will not go in and change old content - yet, they do anyway. I agree - please do not waste time and resources on 'pet peeves' when Turbine is consistently slow and behind their schedules on new content.

[Deathseeker]

/not signed!!!

I ran the Reaver last night, expecting the worst based on the stories on the forums.

OMG, this is the most overblown issue I've seen. Looks like more elementals with higher DC's. Ok...

Still completed with a Pug, still used same basic methods other than we needed both casters to work a lot harder. That was it.

If anything, they should have made it more difficult. It's still way too easy once you know how to do it.

Regarding the "waste of development time", how do we know this wasn't 30 minutes of work? All I can see changed was the elemental frequency and DC's. Again, way overdramatized...

As far as not notifying the forums...sure a single sentence would have been nice. But that only affected the people who ran it the first day. By now, everyone is aware (or at least as many people as would have read the release notes). So other than those who ran it the first day Mod 8 was released and were caught off gaurd, this is a made up issue. And even for that tiny group...so they had one Reaver wipe? That's the crisis everyone is posting about?

This has to be the single most overblown contraversy on the forums.

As for the hound, I will totally reserve judgment until I run it with the new changes...

[Dracolich]

Hell, I'll pay extra to stop pikers.

Ok *** is a Piker? Is it a person who fishes for Pike? Is it a person who weilds a pike in battle? What the hell does a pike have to do with somone being lazy in a quest? Who was the numbskull who thinks of these internet terms like "pikers" and all the other words that dont make any sense unless you are the one who made it up.

[dageth]

So let me get this straight.... you're complaining that people can no longer hitch a ride through a high level quest and don't get to loot because they came after it started?

*sob* muffin *sob*

No offense but hand-outs are never a good thing. I feel people shouldn't even be able to get in after the raid starts, this is at least something to stop handing out loot... I don't see any grounds on which to complain.

And by the way, taking the code out for sending people to the death room may have taken a day and some testing.... this wasn't a large allocation of resources, nor would it significantly take away from development time to new projects. It's a quick change to stop handouts, much like why they have the barrier and changed the chest looting system some time back.

The reason I shake my head at this is that it only affects those who join in late. This does, in no way, stop piking. Dual-boxers and guilds can coordinate times so that everyone is present at the start. PUGS can wait a few more minutes to fill up.

The only reason I can think for this is that this was supposed to go in when the barrier was implemented...only something didn't work right or it got left out. Seems to me this is just a coder clearing old action items from their 'to do' list :D

[Beherit_Baphomar]

The reason I shake my head at this is that it only affects those who join in late. This does, in no way, stop piking. Dual-boxers and guilds can coordinate times so that everyone is present at the start. PUGS can wait a few more minutes to fill up.

The only reason I can think for this is that this was supposed to go in when the barrier was implemented...only something didn't work right or it got left out. Seems to me this is just a coder clearing old action items from their 'to do' list :D

Its seems a pointless change to an old raid that needn't have been worked on.

Where we really seeing a huge increase in people coming in after the barrier?

And as for those who have posted 2000 words on "omg! Its stilll a lootz run! omg! Wat iz rong with u'z?" Please remove your posts for not reading past the first line of the OP.

[soupertc]

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but........
if the unannounced changes worked in our favor would we still be complaining?
I wonder if the DEVs have a private thread about using exploits that players have found( I am in no way accusing anyone in this thread of that ).
I like that they change stuff like that.....it keeps us on our toes. And I doubt alot of time or resourses went into changing the few things they did. I say change things every few months....I like to be challenged.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

And I doubt alot of time or resourses went into changing the few things they did. I say change things every few months....I like to be challenged.

Couldja maybe pass that onto the Devs regarding The Abbott?

Cause I coulda swore they told us that they no longer go back and change old quests.

[rimble]

Couldja maybe pass that onto the Devs regarding The Abbott?

Cause I coulda swore they told us that they no longer go back and change old quests.

Yah. I'm trying not to participate and get caught up in the negativity on the boards, but this was the first thing that came to my mind too-- but in regards to VoN/Queen flagging.

[soupertc]

Couldja maybe pass that onto the Devs regarding The Abbott?

Cause I coulda swore they told us that they no longer go back and change old quests.

I've had people in real life mislead me too, if it isn't life threating....I move on.
Isn't the Abbot getting PWNed all the time of a server?

[Big-Dex]

While I am not sure that I agree that this change was a waste of the DEV's time, it certainly made the quest a touch more interesting. No step-in, go AFK breaks for folks while a couple of folks complete it. It needed the twink as it is a RAID and should be a touch harder than what it was.

My only concern is that instead of prioritizing that RAID twink, as the REAVER is a RAID that can be run and enjoyed by all, they should have thought about twinking one that can't be run by all and frankly is not enjoyable - THE ABBOT!

If they are fixing RAIDS, that RAID deserves their priority attention, as there are only a few crews rolling through it using tactics that are not in harmony with how the RAID was intended to be run. The majority of folks don't go near there and as a result, don't even bother keying for it. If not for some nice loot, the whole series would not get run much. That is a shame.

So for any reason we could surmise here that they felt pressed to give the REAVER RAID a twink, I can probably give 10 reasons for the ABBOT RAID some loving!

~ Dex

PS: And yes, I do believe the keying mechanics could be changed for the better on the DQ and the VONS, but I still feel a broke RAID takes priority over RAIDS that are doable by all, although in a tedious way. Mind you, even VELAH has got a few twinks in her time to make here doable, as has the TITAN and DQ. While they have gotten some attention, the only attention the ABBOT has gotten has not solved its plethora of problems.

[Big-Dex]

I've had people in real life mislead me too, if it isn't life threating....I move on.
Isn't the Abbot getting PWNed all the time of a server?

Sure it is, but not by the majority of folks, just by a specialized bunch of folks, and not runnng it "straight up." It is taking some very unusual, borderline exploitive tactics to get it done. This has been discussed at length in other threads.

No one... and I mean nobody doing it has come up and offered any proof or even hinted at doing it as the DEVs designed it. Cheezy and unusual tactics are the fare in there. Only those groups who have mastered those cheezy and unusual tactics are completing.

One more point, the majority of folks can't get this RAID done. I can roll, as have our guild every other RAID on ELITE without much issue (we choose not to for some, as it is not worth the resources spent). We have spent countless hours in this RAID with no success, even using cheezy and unusual tactics. The average PUG is not gonna get this. It needs some attention by the DEVS.

~ Dex

[Mercules]

... instead of new content...


Start a new character and you will see plenty of new content.

[soupertc]

Sure it is, but not by the majority of folks, just by a specialized bunch of folks, and not runnng it "straight up." It is taking some very unusual, borderline exploitive tactics to get it done. This has been discussed at length in other threads.

No one... and I mean nobody doing it has come up and offered any proof or even hinted at doing it as the DEVs designed it. Cheezy and unusual tactics are the fare in there. Only those groups who have mastered those cheezy and unusual tactics are completing.

One more point, the majority of folks can't get this RAID done. I can roll, as have our guild every other RAID on ELITE without much issue (we choose not to for some, as it is not worth the resources spent). We have spent countless hours in this RAID with no success, even using cheezy and unusual tactics. The average PUG is not gonna get this. It needs some attention by the DEVS.

~ Dex

I join groups to try to get The Abott....never done that well....never beat him. So yeah I know what ya all mean. But fixing something THEY don't consider broke just ain't gonna happen. Is that right? Ya got me.

[Big-Dex]

I join groups to try to get The Abott....never done that well....never beat him. So yeah I know what ya all mean. But fixing something THEY don't consider broke just ain't gonna happen. Is that right? Ya got me.

Heh. Not trying to hi-jack this thread and turn it into another ABBOT thread, but ... I will say that this is the curious thing. The ABBOT is broke!! It needs fixin. Folks might be completing it, but they must use all kinds of tactics that the DEVs did not intend to get it done. The problem is that THEY have not prioritized a fix on it for some strange reason and have not put out any word that they have/have not future plans to fix it.

So, we wait and continue to post about it. 'Nuff said on the ABBOT here by me.

Thanks for listenin'
~ Dex

[DoctorWhofan]

I took the OP to be focused not on the changes (which I think we all agree are no big deal), but rather on the fact that Devs are wasting their time jiggering with Reaver when there are FAR more pressing things to be dealt with. We have a raid that doesn't work at all, and the devs are working on preventing late comers to reaver from getting chests. We have ongoing lag issues and the devs are working on preventing late comers to reaver from getting chests. We have broken AI for some critters and the devs are working on preventing late comers to reaver from getting chests. We have hirelines starting later than originally planned/hoped and... well you get the picture.

I am 95% happy with the game, don't get me wrong, but I really wish they'd focus on the isolated, but glaring problems with the game, and not on changes that don't really impact anyone's fun factor at all...

That is what I get, but I have to agree it was a change that was needed. The whole point of the barrier in the first place is so there wasn't any freeloaders. We found a way around it, so they fixed it again. I really don't think it took alot of time, and I think it was on their list ofthings to do, put off because it wasn't important. Most likely, one ofthe devs while working on something else figured that it could work on the Reaver, too. And here it is.

SO it wasn't a IMPORTANT change, but it was one we needed.

[Cold_Stele]

Start a new character and you will see plenty of new content.

You mean the Goodblades quest with different mobs in?

I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you...

[Thelmallen]

What about the fact that the devs "won't go back and make changes to existing content"? You know, like changing the flagging mechanics for the dragon and dq raids? It's not the changes to this raid in and of itself, but the fact that changes were made at all that is bothers me. Why is it that we can get changes like this that nobody wanted / cares about, but changes that people have been clamoring about for ages go unheard (my personal pet peeve is beholders being broken for 2+ years)? I think that's the real issue at hand.

double /signed

[DoctorWhofan]

You mean the Goodblades quest with different mobs in?

I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you...

THe dragon quest.


Actually, the revamp of the lower quests was well done. It makes sense, all tied together and flows. THere are chests now and no 5 gp end rewards.

[Mercules]

You mean the Goodblades quest with different mobs in?

I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you...

New area = New content
New mobs = New content
New items = New content
New quests = New content
New character system = New content

The whole start-up process on a character has changed and many believe for the better. I guess that doesn't count towards a raid run in the hopes of getting an addition +1 to a stat from a +3 tome that really has negligibly effect on how your character actually performs but is so important you would grind and grind for it, so why would you worry about it. :rolleyes:

[Impaqt]

OMG folks, Stop all the whining about the reaver...

If the only reason your running it is to get your 20/40/60 competions, DO IT On NORMAL.
I fyou need to run it on elite, how about going back to .. Oh.. I dunno... TACTICS and TEAMWORK..... You Know.. Crown COntrol.. Mindfog.. ENERVATION..... Boo Hoo.. One arcane cant take care of all the ele's by himself anymore... GImme a break.. THe Quest was Pathetically easy on elite.... this is a Level 16 Quest on elite remeber? Its not supposed to be a 3 man Gimme quest.

as for the /death in the foyer... Bo Hoo again.. It was an Exploit and you know it. get over it.

[Do'Urden]

Start a new character and you will see plenty of new content.

You mean for the day or two or three I reside at those levels???!!!??? :confused:

[Cold_Stele]

New area = New content
New mobs = New content
New items = New content
New quests = New content
New character system = New content

The whole start-up process on a character has changed and many believe for the better. I guess that doesn't count towards a raid run in the hopes of getting an addition +1 to a stat from a +3 tome that really has negligibly effect on how your character actually performs but is so important you would grind and grind for it, so why would you worry about it. :rolleyes:

It's Quest For The Ancient Daggers with sahaugin instead of zombies, it's Search for the Rare Scrolls with spiders instead of thieves. You protect a crystal instead of a crate like you've been doing for the past two years.

The fact that you're trying to justify yourself just makes me laugh all the harder.

Some people just don't get it - old content just got rehashed and regurgitated and people are happily running the same old stuff cos the devs tell them to - some are even rolling new toons so they can run the entire game over again.

[Deathseeker]

OMG folks, Stop all the whining about the reaver...

If the only reason your running it is to get your 20/40/60 competions, DO IT On NORMAL.
I fyou need to run it on elite, how about going back to .. Oh.. I dunno... TACTICS and TEAMWORK..... You Know.. Crown COntrol.. Mindfog.. ENERVATION..... Boo Hoo.. One arcane cant take care of all the ele's by himself anymore... GImme a break.. THe Quest was Pathetically easy on elite.... this is a Level 16 Quest on elite remeber? Its not supposed to be a 3 man Gimme quest.

as for the /death in the foyer... Bo Hoo again.. It was an Exploit and you know it. get over it.

100% correct Impaqt...

And as for the lack of notice...last night most of my Pug knew it had been changed to some degree, and several already had known how to counter the changes. This was within 24 hours of the update. Not exactly like the lack of notice had any major effect on anything. The player community handles the communication pretty effectively even if the release notes don't.

[Tresha_D'Artet]

OMG folks, Stop all the whining about the reaver...

If the only reason your running it is to get your 20/40/60 competions, DO IT On NORMAL.
I fyou need to run it on elite, how about going back to .. Oh.. I dunno... TACTICS and TEAMWORK..... You Know.. Crown COntrol.. Mindfog.. ENERVATION..... Boo Hoo.. One arcane cant take care of all the ele's by himself anymore... GImme a break.. THe Quest was Pathetically easy on elite.... this is a Level 16 Quest on elite remeber? Its not supposed to be a 3 man Gimme quest.

as for the /death in the foyer... Bo Hoo again.. It was an Exploit and you know it. get over it.

i completely agree here, big deal someone doesnt go to the 'dead room' if all you care about is the completions, then just die and be happy :D

personally i happen to like the new lowbie area, mebbe its just me:rolleyes:

[Mercules]

You mean for the day or two or three I reside at those levels???!!!??? :confused:

I think I heard the complaint before, "Why shouldn't I powerlevel, the first three levels are always the same?" maybe not from you, but still. So they change it all around giving old people a new experience and new people(which might someday be in your group/guild) a better experience. So now the complaint will be, "Stop wasting time I don't spend time at those levels anyway. I already know how to make a character."

[Grenfell]

I agree with Mr Wizard.

To the OP: No sence getting your panties in a bunch. I doubt the changes took much dev time as compared to creating new content from scratch. Besides, now the quest might require a little more interaction with players besides just the 2 or 3 we've need in the past..

Considering that I still can't "Delete All" on my Confirmed mail, and that change would have taken just as little time as the "let's screw latecomers to Reaver" change... I'm getting my panties in a bunch.

Too often, it feels like a Player Representative has to start sitting in on dev priority meetings so they can have a clue as to what's actually important to us.

/gren

[Impaqt]

Considering that I still can't "Delete All" on my Confirmed mail, and that change would have taken just as little time as the "let's screw latecomers to Reaver" change... I'm getting my panties in a bunch.

Too often, it feels like a Player Representative has to start sitting in on dev priority meetings so they can have a clue as to what's actually important to us.

/gren
"Reply" would be nice as well....

Monster CR and Spawn rate can all be worked around using Tactics.... SO we gotta change up a bit.. thats not a big deal to me at al...

ITs the core stuff that does bug me....

TOtally agree that a Delete all is LONG overdue along with a Reply button...

Our Auction house is in desperate need for a "Search" Function...

If there is ONE complaint I have regarding anything that was changed in Mod 8 its the Raise in the Intim check (SPecifically the Hound, but I think other checks were raised as well). We already get a huge penalty against that raid boss as it is due to size and now the check is higher? Thats BS. People who Focus on a Intim cant hit this check now without failure on NORMAL.. Cant wait to see waht the DC is on hard and elite....

[Mercules]

It's Quest For The Ancient Daggers with sahaugin instead of zombies, it's Search for the Rare Scrolls with spiders instead of thieves. You protect a crystal instead of a crate like you've been doing for the past two years.

The fact that you're trying to justify yourself just makes me laugh all the harder.

Some people just don't get it - old content just got rehashed and regurgitated and people are happily running the same old stuff cos the devs tell them to - some are even rolling new toons so they can run the entire game over again.

Sahaugin and zombies and more spiders. They tweaked the quests both to have them make more sense in a story line and to run a little better, offer up something else. They improved a new players experience to the game so they might stick around long enough to run a raid with you. Instead of appreciating them for it lets whine about it.

Mod 7 had a lot of focus on the upper levels, it's time they turned some to the people coming in. You need to retain customers and gain new ones for your business to grow.

I never did get people who will complain about not having new content and then run the exact same quest over and over and over and over and over and over... ect. again for a particular item. Why do you need new content? You are willing to run the same quest over and over and...

Then you go and mention they actually changed the look and feel of a quest and get blasted because "It's the same thing." Um... right... not at all like running the same raid 20/40/60 for some marginal increase in character power that will let you conquer... er.. Um... the raid you just ran? :rolleyes:

[DoctorWhofan]

It's Quest For The Ancient Daggers with sahaugin instead of zombies, it's Search for the Rare Scrolls with spiders instead of thieves. You protect a crystal instead of a crate like you've been doing for the past two years.

The fact that you're trying to justify yourself just makes me laugh all the harder.

Some people just don't get it - old content just got rehashed and regurgitated and people are happily running the same old stuff cos the devs tell them to - some are even rolling new toons so they can run the entire game over again.

Sorry, Misery's Peak and the explorer area is new. And pretty awesome.

[DoctorWhofan]

Sahaugin and zombies and more spiders. They tweaked the quests both to have them make more sense in a story line and to run a little better, offer up something else. They improved a new players experience to the game so they might stick around long enough to run a raid with you. Instead of appreciating them for it lets whine about it.

Mod 7 had a lot of focus on the upper levels, it's time they turned some to the people coming in. You need to retain customers and gain new ones for your business to grow.

I never did get people who will complain about not having new content and then run the exact same quest over and over and over and over and over and over... ect. again for a particular item. Why do you need new content? You are willing to run the same quest over and over and...

Then you go and mention they actually changed the look and feel of a quest and get blasted because "It's the same thing." Um... right... not at all like running the same raid 20/40/60 for some marginal increase in character power that will let you conquer... er.. Um... the raid you just ran? :rolleyes:


/signed.

I run quests over and over agin cuz I LIKE them, not forthe loot (okay maybe Co6 and TR) but for the fun. SOrry, level 16 raid loot mongers are not the only people in the game. Occasionally we get new ones.

[Mercules]

Somehow lag created a double post.

[Deathseeker]

Considering that I still can't "Delete All" on my Confirmed mail, and that change would have taken just as little time as the "let's screw latecomers to Reaver" change... I'm getting my panties in a bunch.

Too often, it feels like a Player Representative has to start sitting in on dev priority meetings so they can have a clue as to what's actually important to us.

/gren

OK, I'll have to give a little as you do raise a good point. To me the two things are not dependent (I highly doubt they didn't do delete all because they did the Reaver change). BUT, to your point, seems like there are some little things they could do (like this) that we'd love that they don't, thus why you are frustrated about other things being changed you didn't want.

I still don't quite tie the two together...but I'll agree that it would be nice to see a November "here's a bunch of minor stuff you've all been asking for" update. Would keep the players happy, and wouldn't be a big deal to do. In fact...I think that's such a good idea I'll go post it :)

[samagee]

/Sigh

Please read post - I recalled for mana just in case, as I knew it had changed.

It's called being prepared.

No, you're right - it's my fault they made the changes that effect late comers.

It happened to me once before these changes. I don't run that quest much any more, but the last couple times I ran it I didn't recall out. In a group that size it's easy for things to get miscommunicated, or purposely done.

[Deathseeker]

It's Quest For The Ancient Daggers with sahaugin instead of zombies, it's Search for the Rare Scrolls with spiders instead of thieves. You protect a crystal instead of a crate like you've been doing for the past two years.

The fact that you're trying to justify yourself just makes me laugh all the harder.

Some people just don't get it - old content just got rehashed and regurgitated and people are happily running the same old stuff cos the devs tell them to - some are even rolling new toons so they can run the entire game over again.

You're right! How could these people be having fun and happily rerunning these quests? Don't they know they shouldn't have fun with recycled content! Only unrecycled content counts as legitimate fun. Recycled content is not acceptable as allowing new fun!

Those devs...causing players to enjoy themselves with trickery and shenanigans. Unbelievable....

Or maybe, just maybe, not everyone has the same definition of fun as you do, and to a large portion of the player base, we actually do get a kick out of running these quests in their "new and improved" state.

Guess I'm not sure why it's "acceptable" to rerun high level content over and over, but not acceptable to run low level content over and over. If you think you can have enough content to never repeat either one...well, DDO is not the right place for you.

There are actually players that like rerolling and character building that they end up having rerun the lowbie quests a TON more than they've ever run Rainbow or the Shroud. This update was a huge improvement for those types...they just aren't necessarily the types that post on the forums a lot. But I have a feeling Turbine tends to like their money as much as anyone else's.

[Mindspat]

What has really p*ssed me off is this - So I go back in, get killed by ellies and wait to go to dead room. I don't. My stone stays there between door and blue barrier. Quest ends, I'm still there.

:confused:

I wanted to make a whitty comment although I can't think of anything without blatant trolling. :confused:

Would you like some ice scream?

[muffinlad]

A) I hate unannounced via release notes, changes. You dont have to even be exact...but a "The Stormreaver has recruited tougher allies" etc. is expected and best practice behavior.

B) That being said, I love the changes. With all of them tougher now, everyone has something to do, rather than just sit there during the quest.

muffinstormer

[Cold_Stele]

I wanted to make a whitty comment although I can't think of anything without blatant trolling. :confused:

Would you like some ice scream?

Hmmm, I see why you're actually incapable of making a witty reply as you seem to lack the attention span to read my entire post.

My complaint is not that I didn't get loot (I could have just recalled out when I didn't go to the dead zone and joined one of the other dozen pugs that run every day). Neither is it that the raid is harder or now requires different tactics.

Please reread my post to get a clue what the thread's about.

Oh, btw, please do me the courtesy of not editing my text when quoting, eh?


as for the /death in the foyer... Bo Hoo again.. It was an Exploit and you know it. get over it.

Same comment again really, try reading the actual post maybe? I know you're a smart guy, you can do better than this.

[Deathseeker]

So the devs have increased mob saves to PK/FOD. Can't see the point myself but /meh.

What's getting me is that I simply cannot believe that the dev's time and our (the customers') money has been put into making a change as pointless as this, stopping latecomers getting chests.

I find it unbelievable that Turbine could not find better use for those resources - instead of new content we get a harder grind for the stuff we already have.

/stunned :confused:

As you have said several times we've missed your point...let me address this one directly...

It was an exploit. It was fixed. You don't think fixing exploits is worth developer time. We do.

[Cold_Stele]

As you have said several times we've missed your point...let me address this one directly...

It was an exploit. It was fixed. You don't think fixing exploits is worth developer time. We do.

Going into a quest late and being killed by ellies is an exploit?

OK bud - report me. I'll pm you each and every day until you tell me stop to prove I wasn't banned.

But seriously - sure, previously, you could go in late and grab loot.

Who the hell cares?

I challenge you to find ONE SINGLE THREAD on these forums from players complaining about this.

ONE SINGLE THREAD.

No?

Conversely I can point you in the direction of dozens from players raising very valid issues that needed to be addressed.

Get a clue, eh?

[Gabrion]

LOL AT LEAST WE CAN SAY "EXPLOIT" NOW!!!

(not that it is related to this topic in any way, shape, or form)

On a more serious note are people really arguing the OP? The point has nothing to do with the changes themselves, or whether or not people think they are "OK." Heck they may even be a slight improvement. The point is that there are about a bajillion other things wrong with this game that should be fixed first.

What's even more ironic is people arguing it was probably a simple change, taking 30 minutes or something. These are the same people who say "you dont know what kind of programming that would take!" when we ask for very very simple game improvements. Amazing.

[Deathseeker]

Going into a quest late and being killed by ellies is an exploit?

OK bud - report me. I'll pm you each and every day until you tell me stop to prove I wasn't banned.

But seriously - sure, previously, you could go in late and grab loot.

Who the hell cares?

I challenge you to find ONE SINGLE THREAD on these forums from players complaining about this.

ONE SINGLE THREAD.

No?

Conversely I can point you in the direction of dozens from players raising very valid issues that needed to be addressed.

Get a clue, eh?

It's an exploit in the sense that its taking advantage of a design flaw in order to get the end chest. I will give on your point that I don't think it raises to the level of an "exploit" in the sense that its worth reporting/banning/etc. Wasnt my intent in the use of the word, fair enough. But it's still a cheesy way to take advantage of a flaw to get the raid loot. They fixed it. You don't think it warranted it. Others disagree and are expressing such to you.

I'll even go a step further...I'd like to see them eventually do something to discourage recalling for mana. The xp penalty is fine until cap, then it becomes a non-penalty. Of course a huge portion of the population would disagree with that as a minimum a waste of priority, and many would go further and say it hurts the game. I actually find it a poor design choice and would like to see it changed. By the way, even with that view I still do when asked in Raids as I dont' want to force my view on others in those cases.

Point is, the developers will do lots of things that some like while others dont'. In this particular case, you don't like the use of effort and posted. I think it's fine and replied. We'll agree to disagree.

[Cold_Stele]

They fixed it. You don't think it warranted it. Others disagree and are expressing such to you.

np bro, it's cool to set your stall out and agree to disagree.

But for the record, it's not that I don't THINK it's warranted.

I plain just don't CARE if it's warranted.

Like Gabrion says -


On a more serious note are people really arguing the OP? The point has nothing to do with the changes themselves, or whether or not people think they are "OK." Heck they may even be a slight improvement. The point is that there are about a bajillion other things wrong with this game that should be fixed first.

[shores11]

I agree with the OP - I really do not care what the changes were - I care that they were made at all - there have been statements made that they will not go in and change old content - yet, they do anyway. I agree - please do not waste time and resources on 'pet peeves' when Turbine is consistently slow and behind their schedules on new content.

There is a difference between changing old content and fixing old content. The fixes to the Reaver now allow for more party members to participate.

[Hirosue]

the reaver raid did not have the blue portal-door when it was first introduced. When this raid was first introduced it took me 13 attempts to get a completion, at the time it appeared to be a verry difficult quest.

Unfortunately some players quickly discovered that there was a way to exploit the quest to get around the 3 day timer for re-entry after completion, while still allowing them to loot the chests which contained 2 raid items.Notably a chance for +3 tomes

This exploit was a huge problem and fairly widespread, some players were using it to farm the reaver over and over for +3 tomes i.e they could run the reaver raid as many times as they liked every day for loot farming of +3 tomes . one day i happened to examine a players bio and he had his characters stats listed, and it turned out he had a +3 tome on every stat.


So the Devs added the portal to stop players exploiting the reaver raid reentry timer for ,loot farming.

This new change to the reaver is totally pointless.Its just change for the sake of change.The thread starter is totally correct that its an utter waste of time to make this change. All this change does, is mean longer waiting times for reaver party to fill up. So more time wasted trying to fill a party. Hardly a positive change.

[shores11]

But seriously - sure, previously, you could go in late and grab loot.

Who the hell cares?

I challenge you to find ONE SINGLE THREAD on these forums from players complaining about this.

ONE SINGLE THREAD.

No?



Ok here is one single thread, I DO NOT LIKE the fact that players could come in late and grab the treasure.

[Deathseeker]

the reaver raid did not have the blue portal-door when it was first introduced. When this raid was first introduced it took me 13 attempts to get a completion, at the time it appeared to be a verry difficult quest.

Unfortunately some players quickly discovered that there was a way to exploit the quest to get around the 3 day timer for re-entry after completion, while still allowing them to loot the chests which contained 2 raid items.Notably a chance for +3 tomes

This exploit was a huge problem and fairly widespread, some players were using it to farm the reaver over and over for +3 tomes i.e they could run the reaver raid as many times as they liked every day for loot farming of +3 tomes . one day i happened to examine a players bio and he had his characters stats listed, and it turned out he had a +3 tome on every stat.


So the Devs added the portal to stop players exploiting the reaver raid reentry timer for ,loot farming.

This new change to the reaver is totally pointless.Its just change for the sake of change.The thread starter is totally correct that its an utter waste of time to make this change. All this change does, is mean longer waiting times for reaver party to fill up. So more time wasted trying to fill a party. Hardly a positive change.


Could you expand as to why this causes longer wait times to fill the party?

[Hirosue]

Could you expand as to why this causes longer wait times to fill the party?

ok . a lot of people and guilds are capable of short manning the reaver. I have done it on elite in 5 player groups on quite a few occasions.

As hard as it is for some people on these forums to understand .There is a tradition of cooperation ,teamwork, and helping other players in this game .A lot of people , myself included , tend to wait for reaver raids to fill up, so that more of our fellow players can get their chance for +3 items and or completions . In the past we could go with say 9 or 10 people . Late joiners could still enter the quest and get their loot at the end.The portal did its job , which was to stop players exploiting the loot and reentry timer.

Now we have the situation , where we are going to have to wait longer for the group to fill or go in short handed.Also dont forget even though the party may be full there will be times where someone starts the quest without realising that someone else is not inside and past the portal and sadly there no doubt will be a few people who decide to do this for fun !

And of course what happens if someone goes link dead. and wakes up the other side of the blue barrier ? in the past the could wait to get killed and at least get their loot.Now of course that can not happen.So to reiterate the Ops point, this change is useless, a waste of time and adds nothing to the raid.

[Cold_Stele]

Ok here is one single thread, I DO NOT LIKE the fact that players could come in late and grab the treasure.

Fine.

I have no problem with that.

But if you had a choice of fixing Reaver to stop late-comers, or fixing Abbot so it was actually playable, which would it be?

Nuff said...

[Torilin]

The OP is right this isnt that the changes make this raid more difficult or anything like that. Its the fact that Turbine and the devs of DDO have decided to spend resourses on old quest instead of making new quest.

Although I like the new quest this mod is a failure already. Lag, Lag Lag, no raid and only 4 quest. Spend time making new stuff, and not revamping old stuff. Why have mods continually gotten smaller? Why do devs try to take stuff out of this game to screw players but keep stuff in the game that nobody even cares for?

I for one am very dissapointed and will not be renewing my subscription.

[Grond]

Fine.

I have no problem with that.

But if you had a choice of fixing Reaver to stop late-comers, or fixing Abbot so it was actually playable, which would it be?

Nuff said...

If by 'fixing the abbot so it is actually playable,' you mean make it the snooze fest that the reaver used to be, no thank you. The Abbot is tough; you can't just go in and let two people carry you through it in a PuG... I like that. I have no problem with there being some things that are really challenging.

[hannika]

Who says it was a waste of dev time and resources ... mabye it was a pet peeve of a dev and they made a quick change on their own time? You know kind of like what Codog did with the spinning while shrining?


is that who did that!!?? i couldn't belive it one day after a new mod i sat down to shrine and could no longer spin! to this day it still bothers the f*** out of me because i just *always* spun while shrining.

[Cold_Stele]

If by 'fixing the abbot so it is actually playable,' you mean make it the snooze fest that the reaver used to be, no thank you. The Abbot is tough; you can't just go in and let two people carry you through it in a PuG... I like that. I have no problem with there being some things that are really challenging.

Ha ha ha I love it when guys like you come shooting their mouths off.

No I don't want Abbot to be a snooze fest.

Yes I want it to be actually completable.

I don't have a single completion on Abbot.

I'll bet my bottom dollar you don't either.

Why the hell am I even wasting my time even replying to you?

[Xithos]

The devs picked the wrong raid to start a revamp on; hit up the Black Abbot so people actually run it instead of worrying about the reaver :)

[geoffhanna]

I am 95% happy with the game, don't get me wrong, but I really wish they'd focus on the isolated, but glaring problems with the game, and not on changes that don't really impact anyone's fun factor at all...

I just finished it for the first time since the change. Everyone in the group was busy. There was some excitement. There was a little nervousness. There was palpable relief when we killed him and headed for the puzzle part.

Compare this with my previous run, before the change. After zoning, there was some argument over who would tank. I lost. I, and the other melees that lost, spent the entire quest /sleeping against the blue wall.

This absolutely impacted the fun factor on one of the most constantly-run quests in the game. And it probably didn't take any code changes at all (testing tho of course). Prioritization is all about bang for the buck. This seems like a pretty effective use of an hour to me.

[quickgrif]

I just finished it for the first time since the change. Everyone in the group was busy. There was some excitement. There was a little nervousness. There was palpable relief when we killed him and headed for the puzzle part.

Compare this with my previous run, before the change. After zoning, there was some argument over who would tank. I lost. I, and the other melees that lost, spent the entire quest /sleeping against the blue wall.

This absolutely impacted the fun factor on one of the most constantly-run quests in the game. And it probably didn't take any code changes at all (testing tho of course). Prioritization is all about bang for the buck. This seems like a pretty effective use of an hour to me.

Until you consider that hour could of been used on some other bug or quest that had more glaring problems.

[geoffhanna]

Until you consider that hour could of been used on some other bug or quest that had more glaring problems.

An hour is an hour. You can only do so much with it. And the reaver raid - A RAID - had turned into a loot run where 8 or 9 people /sleep through the whole thing.

How much time are we wasting complaining about this when we could be complaining about some other bug or quest that has more glaring problems?

[Falco_Easts]

Ok *** is a Piker? Is it a person who fishes for Pike? Is it a person who weilds a pike in battle? What the hell does a pike have to do with somone being lazy in a quest? Who was the numbskull who thinks of these internet terms like "pikers" and all the other words that dont make any sense unless you are the one who made it up.

/off topic
Pike and Piker are pretty common slang and nothing to do with the internet.

[nbhs275]

I just think its some dumb **** that they felt it necessary to go and mess with an old raid that was working perfectly fine, and was still balanced for A) what you get out of it, and B) the intended group level. Especially when there is another raid that is COMPLETELY unbeatable without cheats and workarounds out the ass.

[nbhs275]

An hour is an hour. You can only do so much with it. And the reaver raid - A RAID - had turned into a loot run where 8 or 9 people /sleep through the whole thing.

How much time are we wasting complaining about this when we could be complaining about some other bug or quest that has more glaring problems?

Thing is the changes didn't make it any less of a nap for the 8-9 melees who are sleeping through it. It just made it so the casters had to be on their toes even more. Really a smarter change would of been some sort of enemy that melees could actually have a useful effect against other then just ppl with WoP or cursespewers. Why the hell not just have random giants spawn out of portals or some such nonsense.

[Rilean]

has anyone thought that maybe the failure to port tot the time out room like the op said might be a glitch. It happens some times. Just a thought to get some perspective in this discussion

[Dracolich]

/off topic
Pike and Piker are pretty common slang and nothing to do with the internet.

Ok what part of life has this term ever come up in? I only know of ever hearing it on the internet. So tell me what does it mean and where it came from if not the internet? Was it somone whos last name was "Pike" and he was a lazy ass so everyone calls lazy people pikers now? Cmon if you know were it did not originate from you surely must know were it did originate.

Sorry for sounding punchy it just annoys me when people use stupid MMO terms without knowing where something came from or why it was.

[Falco_Easts]

Ok what part of life has this term ever come up in? I only know of ever hearing it on the internet. So tell me what does it mean and where it came from if not the internet? Was it somone whos last name was "Pike" and he was a lazy ass so everyone calls lazy people pikers now? Cmon if you know were it did not originate from you surely must know were it did originate.

Sorry for sounding punchy it just annoys me when people use stupid MMO terms without knowing where something came from or why it was.

Can't speak for where it came from but I know I have used it since school, before MMO's were around and the internet was only just starting.
It basically means someone who pulls out of something or takes the soft option.

"Hey man, thought you were coming to the party Saturday night?"
"Sorry mate, something came up and I had to pike"

[iconiclastic]

Yes the devs want to kill DDO and they seem to be doing a great job of it.I believe they want you to try another of thier games which you will probably come to hate.I love dungeons and dragons which is why I play,best fk'n game ever man!Changing existing quests and making them harder while nerfing the loot is just thier way of encouraging plat buying from them on the side so the can hypocritically ban your account if you do.I remember when a +5 stat item was minimum level 9 without racial requirements.I can't believe that by making it harder the devs think I will continue being interested,because I am quickly losing interest,I mean whats the use of a weird spell(mass pk) if it doesnt ever work?Should I waste my time on lower level quests just for the satisfaction of getting my spell to hit?Red named boss mobs that are immune to everything is narcisitic unless of course you can dispel thier immunities,then it just becomes a challenge which is fun.Last thing I hate about quests are the quest objectives list.You shouldn't know that until you figure it out!

[KLBen]

I cannot really complain too much about the changes to the Reaver, I do not like it, sure, but it did make it a little more interesting I admit. My problem is having to deal with a dozen plus air ellies after the quest is over for no reason other than it is necessary to be able to loot the chests in peace. The only change I would make now would be when the quest is completed all remaining ellies disappear.