Congrats, You Killed Rainbow in the Dark

[Palmetto]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

[Vordax]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

They didn't kill it. Just made the quest work as originally intended.

Vordax

[CSFurious]

but, all the other "indoor" quests have electricity

be consistent or do not bother

if Turbine made every quest underground dark, i would support it

to make just one is bad design


They didn't kill it. Just made the quest work as originally intended.

Vordax

[KoboldKiller]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:


Are you serious? If so what an arrogant (filter) you are.

Nevermind I just got sucked in by a Troll.

[Frodo_Lives]

Nice, real nice. :rolleyes:

So the devs changed the quest to work as originally intented and now you can't use your cheese to get through the quest. And for that we get your "no noobs" rant, pathetic.

[Giantsbane]

Are you serious? If so what an arrogant (filter) you are.

Nevermind I just got sucked in by a Troll.

Everytime I read I post like this, I have to reflect on what a PnP DM would say.

What you don't like the fact that you can't see with out the magic scepter?

/rolls die

You're now deaf, so you can't see or hear. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[frugal_gourmet]

It's too bad they left the sound on and everyone can hear you cry like a little girl.

[Hambo]

Everytime I read I post like this, I have to reflect on what a PnP DM would say.

What you don't like the fact that you can't see with out the magic scepter?

/rolls die

You're now deaf, so you can't see or hear. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!


:D Good one :D

Sounds to me like the OP is afraid of the dark, actually... :D

[KoboldKiller]

Everytime I read I post like this, I have to reflect on what a PnP DM would say.

What you don't like the fact that you can't see with out the magic scepter?

/rolls die

You're now deaf, so you can't see or hear. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

LOL nice.

[Kraldor]

If they were so careful as to make sure the darkness can't be bypassed, they should also make sure that

A. Races that get Darkvision actually can use it
-and-
B. That there's more than one light source (At least make everbright weapons have the Radiant Arc effect). Forcing the party to all stick together for the duration of the quest just doesn't work in a real time game world.

If nothing else, allow us to light torches along the way, even if they are only temporary.

[Gunga]

Are you serious? If so what an arrogant (filter) you are.

Nevermind I just got sucked in by a Troll.

Actually, he's not a Troll. He's voicing his opinion in a colorful way.

You, however, by coming in here, calling him names and not addressing the topic of the thread, are exhibiting the behavior of the latest wiki definition of a Troll.

Congrats on identifying yourself.

OP: I'll reserve my own opinion of the quest until after I complete it this way.

[WeaselKing]

if They Were So Careful As To Make Sure The Darkness Can't Be Bypassed, They Should Also Make Sure That

A. Races That Get Darkvision Actually Can Use It


Qft

[Reisz]

I personally look forward to the added challenge. This has nothing to do with consistency with the other dungeons, quite the opposite. Turbine is trying to make things fun by adding variety.

Let me guess, you hated Crucible too because it was *gasp* something challenging besides killing monsters.

If the OP had it their way, every quest would consist of the following:

1. Short hallway 30-40ft max
2. One kobold
3. One unlocked Level 20 chest
4. One locked Level 20 chest, just in case you were ambitious enough to kill the kobold

[Gunga]

I personally look forward to the added challenge. This has nothing to do with consistency with the other dungeons, quite the opposite. Turbine is trying to make things fun by adding variety.

Let me guess, you hated Crucible too because it was *gasp* something challenging besides killing monsters.

If the OP had it their way, every quest would consist of the following:

1. Short hallway 30-40ft max
2. One kobold
3. One unlocked Level 20 chest
4. One locked Level 20 chest, just in case you were ambitious enough to kill the kobold

No. He's just not looking forward to babysitting a noob who can't see. I don't see anywhere in his post where he's indicated that he is afraid of the dark, or that he thinks killing a kobold is worth a 20th level chest.

[petegunn]

Thread of the week !

[Vivanto]

Yes, yes, darkvision please :)

Apart from that, im looking forward to do Rainbow the proper way.

[KoboldKiller]

Actually, he's not a Troll. He's voicing his opinion in a colorful way.

You, however, by coming in here, calling him names and not addressing the topic of the thread, are exhibiting the behavior of the latest wiki definition of a Troll.

Congrats on identifying yourself.

OP: I'll reserve my own opinion of the quest until after I complete it this way.


Oh I see so "colorful" is calling anyone who cannot run through the quest now without the scepter a n00b. My bad I guess I was doing all the name calling. Plus he decided to use "we" and I for one do not have an issue carrying the staff or helping others get through the quest. The quest was not working as intended thus griping about a type of "exploit" is nothing but whining and Trollish behavior considering he ended with "Flame on" thus indicating his post was intended to be inflamatory or "Trollish".

[KoboldKiller]

By both your definitions now that they altered the quest your a n00b as well because you will not be able to see without the scepter.

[Angelus_dead]

I personally look forward to the added challenge. This has nothing to do with consistency with the other dungeons, quite the opposite. Turbine is trying to make things fun by adding variety.
Added challenge is fine and good.

The problem here is that quite a few players are unable to move quickly. Having such a player in the group will mean one of
1. Everyone else waits around for Mr Useless to come along, becoming bored and annoyed, and also losing their buffs making the quest much harder
2. They leave him behind, and listen to him gripe, and then he doesn't get any loot.
3. They diplo monsters onto him and carry his soulstone to the chests for rezzes.

Neither of those are the greatest gameplay.

A BETTER approach, if they want to stick with the concept of "You must be near someone holding this light in order to see", is to allow the start to provide multiple Radiant Arcs. Say it's like magic light-energy temporarily sucked into solid form.

That way, everyone can have a light. When you are in a group with others, you pick one guy to hold the light so the rest can fight with their preferred equipment. When you are cutoff and lost alone, you get out the light to find your way around.

[KoboldKiller]

OMG what a bunch of l33t, uber gamers you are. God forbid someone can't speed run through every quest in the game so if they are a bit slower or gee can't see in the dark they are useless or n00bs. Get over yourselves.

[Drinkin]

I personally look forward to the added challenge. This has nothing to do with consistency with the other dungeons, quite the opposite. Turbine is trying to make things fun by adding variety.

Let me guess, you hated Crucible too because it was *gasp* something challenging besides killing monsters.

If the OP had it their way, every quest would consist of the following:

1. Short hallway 30-40ft max
2. One kobold
3. One unlocked Level 20 chest
4. One locked Level 20 chest, just in case you were ambitious enough to kill the kobold

lol now that's kind of funny.

I do understand the OPs annoyance at the change I'm somewhat looking forward to trying it out. I don't run the quest all that often to be too worried about it. I'm just glad they waited till there were higher level quests out there to do it. Oh and I also do agree that characters with dark vision or infravision should be able to use it. Not sure about WF but everything else but human should be able to at least make their way around inthe dark.

[Gunga]

Oh I see so "colorful" is calling anyone who cannot run through the quest now without the scepter a n00b. My bad I guess I was doing all the name calling. Plus he decided to use "we" and I for one do not have an issue carrying the staff or helping others get through the quest.

Well now you're contributing to the thread. Welcome to the conversation.


The quest was not working as intended thus griping about a type of "exploit" is nothing but whining and Trollish behavior considering he ended with "Flame on" thus indicating his post was intended to be inflamatory or "Trollish".


1. You should never accuse anyone of exploiting.
2. Your knowledge of what trollish behavior is has been documented above. You should probably just quit while you're ahead.

[Giantsbane]

If they were so careful as to make sure the darkness can't be bypassed, they should also make sure that

A. Races that get Darkvision actually can use it
-and-
B. That there's more than one light source (At least make everbright weapons have the Radiant Arc effect). Forcing the party to all stick together for the duration of the quest just doesn't work in a real time game world.

If nothing else, allow us to light torches along the way, even if they are only temporary.

I tend to agree with you on implementing the Darkvision and/or Everbright effect.

However, as I have said in the past, if you look at the Devs as the DMs, it's their game and they can do whatever they want with the rules.

[Rameses]

Sounds fun I can't wait to go in there!!!

[Angelus_dead]

The quest was not working as intended thus griping about a type of "exploit" is nothing but whining
Just because something is "as intended" doesn't mean it's good. Exhibit A: Black Abbot raid.

Sometimes game designers will screw up and misjudge a quest. When that happens, it's possible an unintended exploit is actually more fun than the original concept.

It's true that the majority of players were exploiting gama to be able to see when they shouldn't have. But the alternative is to carry the slowbies as soulstones so they don't get lost. This change doesn't add challenge for those who are already good players- but it punishes mediocre players.

[alchilito]

Oh no ! They fixed a quest to adjust it to the way it was originally designed to be run ! Oh god oh god !

Doooooooooooooooooom


BTW OP: you are the noob.

[Angelus_dead]

OMG what a bunch of l33t, uber gamers you are. God forbid someone can't speed run through every quest in the game so if they are a bit slower or gee can't see in the dark they are useless or n00bs. Get over yourselves.
That is completely backwards.

People who can speed-run it still can. It's the slow players who cannot do that who'll get stuck in the dark and unable to find their way forward.

[KoboldKiller]

Well now you're contributing to the thread. Welcome to the conversation.


1. You should never accuse anyone of exploiting.
2. Your knowledge of what trollish behavior is has been documented above. You should probably just quit while you're ahead.


I never accused anyone specifically of exploiting anything, I mearly pointed out that the gamma adjust is a way to "work around" the intended effect.

[Gunga]

OMG what a bunch of l33t, uber gamers you are. God forbid someone can't speed run through every quest in the game so if they are a bit slower or gee can't see in the dark they are useless or n00bs. Get over yourselves.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Name calling is not the behavior of non-trolls.


I never accused anyone specifically of exploiting anything, I mearly pointed out that the gamma adjust is a way to "work around" the intended effect.

Actually you did bring up the "E" word.

[Reisz]

The problem here is that quite a few players are unable to move quickly. Having such a player in the group will mean one of
1. Everyone else waits around for Mr Useless to come along, becoming bored and annoyed, and also losing their buffs making the quest much harder
2. They leave him behind, and listen to him gripe, and then he doesn't get any loot.
3. They diplo monsters onto him and carry his soulstone to the chests for rezzes.


Understood, but I do not see how any of those issues are confined solely to Rainbow?



A BETTER approach, if they want to stick with the concept of "You must be near someone holding this light in order to see", is to allow the start to provide multiple Radiant Arcs. Say it's like magic light-energy temporarily sucked into solid form.

That way, everyone can have a light. When you are in a group with others, you pick one guy to hold the light so the rest can fight with their preferred equipment. When you are cutoff and lost alone, you get out the light to find your way around.

If everyone has a light, why not just make it a lighted dungeon?

[Palmetto]

That is completely backwards.

People who can speed-run it still can. It's the slow players who cannot do that who'll get stuck in the dark and unable to find their way forward.
DING DING DING, we have a winner! :cool:

[Vivanto]

Ok, 1 question:
Why would not using the Arc be an exploit when you're basically just playing the quest? I mean, I didn't even need to change any gamma settings, could see just fine without it in the first place.

[Drinkin]

OMG what a bunch of l33t, uber gamers you are. God forbid someone can't speed run through every quest in the game so if they are a bit slower or gee can't see in the dark they are useless or n00bs. Get over yourselves.

It has nothing to do with being "l33t" it has to do with having fun. For some people babysittins isn't fun. Look at any other for of entertainment if you have to carry someone through it then what's the point. I don't do crossword puzzles with illiterate people and I don't play basketball with people that have no depth perception. It just isnt' fun.

[Gunga]

If everyone has a light, why not just make it a lighted dungeon?

He got ya there, A_D.

[ShadowFox1978]

Those that can, will solo/duo, and it will be that much harder for those that can't.

[Palmetto]

Those that can, will solo/duo, and it will be that much harder for those that can't.
That was my initial thought, but what if you solo as a fighter type? Now you MUST carry that stupid "flashlight". SHINE ON! :cool:

[eonfreon]

A BETTER approach, if they want to stick with the concept of "You must be near someone holding this light in order to see", is to allow the start to provide multiple Radiant Arcs. Say it's like magic light-energy temporarily sucked into solid form.

That way, everyone can have a light. When you are in a group with others, you pick one guy to hold the light so the rest can fight with their preferred equipment. When you are cutoff and lost alone, you get out the light to find your way around.

Now this would make sense, work as intended, and be fun.
Optimally one person holds the torch so that everyone else has their hands free for combat, but if anyone falls behind for some reason and others are unable/unwilling to come back, that person can pull out his own light scepter and move on and hopefully catch up.
As for Darkvision and the rest, while it would be great, it isn't necessary for one quest, especially as Turbine is the DM they can easily rule out that the magical Darkness cancels out any Racial abilities to see in the dark.

[frugal_gourmet]

This is the first I'm learning of the adjusting the monitor trick.

Yes, I am a noob.

No, I didn't really struggle with it. The guy with the light just waited for me and we were through the quest in no time. I fell in the pit of spikes once and almost died. That was exciting and it slowed my party down for a minute or two.

[Lifespawn]

make it so that at certain intervals there are additional torches even with the light people still get lost it will be so much worse when no1 can see.

I love that people flame the op for commenting on a bad game decision i don't play the game to babysit i come to relax find your own way through the quest cause you won't be in my group.

[Falco_Easts]

This thread smells like cheese.

[Junts]

It pains me to watch people not realize that the Radiant Arc is better than whatever potency item their caster is holding in this quest anyway, and that for many lowbie hitters its probably better DPS on the golems and devils, since its +5 transmuting, and a newbie isn't likely to have smiters and etc when they run this quest the first time.

Holding the Arc in your hand is only a penalty for higher-level hitters with good equipment.

[Angelus_dead]

He got ya there, A_D.
Nope.

As I already explained, you can't use the light without putting away your preferred weapon.

The penalty for going out alone is that you're stuck with a nerfy scepter in your hand if you want to see. The bonus for staying with the group is that only one guy needs to hold the scepter, and you can choose someone who'd be holding Superior Potency VI anyhow.

[Arkat]

He got ya there, A_D.

Maybe or maybe not. I'm not positive but I don't think any of A_D's "solutions" have ever been incoporated into the game anyway. Not that they've all been bad (a few have been good actually) but it seems like the Devs have A_D on their ignore list.

[Lifespawn]

This thread smells like cheese.


this poster smells like a troll with no constructive comments

[eonfreon]

Understood, but I do not see how any of those issues are confined solely to Rainbow?



If everyone has a light, why not just make it a lighted dungeon?

Because it is still something you have to think about. If you get separated and have to pull out the light scepter and encounter MOBS, then you have to deal with it:
Keep the Light source and fight with one hand or
Put the light source away, use your hand for something else (another weapon, a shield, or a Two handed weapon), and fight in the darkness, having to deal with your opponent in the dark, and any unseen obstacles.

[Drinkin]

Those that can, will solo/duo, and it will be that much harder for those that can't.

QFT

They aren't wrecking the quest for those that can but more for those that cannot. In many cases I see people only doing this quest once to get flagged for the shroud because of the change. It is unfortunate that the devs feel the need to waste time going back and "fixing" something this silly but at least hirelings are running ahead of schedule... er wait a minute...

[ShadowFox1978]

That was my initial thought, but what if you solo as a fighter type? Now you MUST carry that stupid "flashlight". SHINE ON! :cool:

Nah, it swings like a weapon. Arc off-hand, banisher main hand. OR, light for parts with pits and such, switch to banishers to fight in dark. Wash repeat.

[Angelus_dead]

Understood, but I do not see how any of those issues are confined solely to Rainbow?
Really? You don't understand that Rainbow In the Dark has specific obstacles to a delayed player coming back to his keyboard and sprinting along to catch up with the rest of the group? Have you been paying attention?

[frugal_gourmet]

The purpose of the single light is obviously to encourage teamwork. Whether that teamwork is actually fun for people clearly depends on the team. It was fun for me who -- as I stated before -- did not even know the adjusting your settings trick.

I could see how it not be fun with a collection of random jerks you could stuck with in some of these PUGs.

[Lifespawn]

QFT

They aren't wrecking the quest for those that can but more for those that cannot. In many cases I see people only doing this quest once to get flagged for the shroud because of the change. It is unfortunate that the devs feel the need to waste time going back and "fixing" something this silly but at least hirelings are running ahead of schedule... er wait a minute...

cmon as they stated they won't go back and fix quests..oh wait they just did

[Chelsa]

DM made change, just deal with it. :p

[Drinkin]

Wrong.

As I already explained, you can't use the light without putting away your preferred weapon.

I think you missed the point... I'd explain it to ya but I doubt it would do any good.

[Palmetto]

Nah, it swings like a weapon. Arc off-hand, banisher main hand. OR, light for parts with pits and such, switch to banishers to fight in dark. Wash repeat.
Good point.

[Aerniel]

dont know what everybodies *****ing about... i see just fine in there without the light or adjusting my settings...

[Lifespawn]

dont know what everybodies *****ing about... i see just fine in there without the light or adjusting my settings...

what you fail to understand is that will not be the case tomorrow it will be dark without the arc period.

[Angelus_dead]

Not that they've all been bad (a few have been good actually) but it seems like the Devs have A_D on their ignore list.
Regardless of whether they ignore me or not, I have too many suggestions for them to follow most of them, especially if they have instructions to spend their time on various unimportant projects that hardly any player wanted.

[Angelus_dead]

The purpose of the single light is obviously to encourage teamwork. Whether that teamwork is actually fun for people clearly depends on the team. It was fun for me who -- as I stated before -- did not even know the adjusting your settings trick.
Tell me, how many times have you done this quest?

[ahpook]

I think the quest concept is fine and the change was reasonable. The only problem that they should have fixed is the light source. Making it a Magic User focused weapon completely screws the quest from being played by a solo or duo of fighters while fine for a duo or solo sorcerer.

They should have made the light source be generated through a more character neutral means. Perhaps as buff or at least a less critical item slot. Perhaps an item that could be equipped in a variety of slots (ring, trinket, necklace, OR helmet) as most players can find some slot to sacrifice for the light source.

The alternate of allowing multiple items is not as good (IMHO) as it takes away from intention that the party must stay together.

[Cashiry]

dont know what everybodies *****ing about... i see just fine in there without the light or adjusting my settings...

log onto Risia and you will not see a thing if you are not holding onto the Arc......
I was the one who told Palm of the change.. and he got upset about it...

The fact is if one is not holding the sceptor, you can not see a thing in there at all.. even if you try to adjust your gamma settings to be able to see.... The area reamains black.

[frugal_gourmet]

Tell me, how many times have you done this quest?

I think you know the approximate answer to that. Less than 4, I think.

And the point you will likely be getting at is that once I do the quest more often it will become extremely inconvenient and irritating. And you will be right.

But that also won't change the fact that the first time I went through the quest not knowing the trick it felt adventurous and a little bit scary and I actually had a little more fun as a result.

[Aerniel]

so they basically created about 10000 obscuring mist spells and the arc dispells the one ya move into! :D YAY!

[Reisz]

Really? You don't understand that Rainbow In the Dark has specific obstacles to a delayed player coming back to his keyboard and sprinting along to catch up with the rest of the group? Have you been paying attention?

Read everything that I wrote...very...slow.

Understood, but I do not see how any of those issues are confined solely to Rainbow?

Of course there are obstacles for delayed players in Rainbow in the Dark. I was simply saying that those situations can apply to other quests too.

[Arkat]

Regardless of whether they ignore me or not, I have too many suggestions for them to follow most of them, especially if they have instructions to spend their time on various unimportant projects that hardly any player wanted.

QFT

...oh and I must say I did get a chuckle out of your response. It's nice to know you have a sense of humor. :)

[Angelus_dead]

The alternate of allowing multiple items is not as good (IMHO) as it takes away from intention that the party must stay together.
The majority of parties prefer to stay together anyway, because of the tactical advantage of overwhelming monsters with concentrated attacks. This isn't a quest with a real motivation to split the group and go for multiple objectives at once. (If you tried to split up and have one team get a key while the other clears to the door, what would happen is the door would be reached and then that team would wait around for the others to rejoin, when they could have been faster working together)

No, the only reason to split up around there is a straggler: either someone who has a real-life interruption, or a network failure, or who is clumsy and bad at jumping over one of the assorted obstacles.

Under the new rules, that person will not be able to see once he recovers from whatever delay it was, and he'll probably be unable to catch up with the rest of the group, which isn't fun for him. The alternative is the other 5 guys stood around and waited an unpredictable amount of time for him to get unstuck, which isn't fun for them.

[Angelus_dead]

Of course there are obstacles for delayed players in Rainbow in the Dark. I was simply saying that those situations can apply to other quests too.
Oh really? Give an example.

[Lifespawn]

The majority of parties prefer to stay together anyway, because of the tactical advantage of overwhelming monsters with concentrated attacks. This isn't a quest with a real motivation to split the group and go for multiple objectives at once. (If you tried to split up and have one team get a key while the other clears to the door, what would happen is the door would be reached and then that team would wait around for the others to rejoin, when they could have been faster working together)

No, the only reason to split up around there is a straggler: either someone who has a real-life interruption, or a network failure, or who is clumsy and bad at jumping over one of the assorted obstacles.

Under the new rules, that person will not be able to see once he recovers from whatever delay it was, and he'll probably be unable to catch up with the rest of the group, which isn't fun for him. The alternative is the other 5 guys stood around and waited an unpredictable amount of time for him to get unstuck, which isn't fun for them.

maybe light the whole quest on completion? a semi solution to stragglers or ppl that go link dead but still a pain for people that don't want to sit around alot.

[Palmetto]

maybe Light The Whole Quest On Completion? A Semi Solution To Stragglers Or Ppl That Go Link Dead But Still A Pain For People That don't Want To Sit Around Alot.
............ Don't Want To Sit Around At All!

[Angelus_dead]

maybe light the whole quest on completion? a semi solution to stragglers or ppl that go link dead but still a pain for people that don't want to sit around alot.
Yes, that could help too, and would also be useful for people who have already put the Radiant Arc in the final slot before they got the optional chests.

For stragglers it's still a poor fix. Although it allows them to eventually find the way to their chest, it doesn't let them catch up to the point where they can help fight monsters or otherwise have fun before it ends.

[ahpook]

maybe light the whole quest on completion? a semi solution to stragglers or ppl that go link dead but still a pain for people that don't want to sit around alot.

Good idea but it should light up earlier, like once you do the "rainbow" switches as you lose the arc and can no longer go back in the dungeon. This will be a real PitA as you cannot go back for optional chests. We always liked to leave the trap chests until after completion as the chance of failure was too high to bother with before the quest was done.

****, now I am agreeing with the OP :)

[Osharan_Tregarth]

If they were so careful as to make sure the darkness can't be bypassed, they should also make sure that

A. Races that get Darkvision actually can use it
-and-
B. That there's more than one light source (At least make everbright weapons have the Radiant Arc effect). Forcing the party to all stick together for the duration of the quest just doesn't work in a real time game world.

If nothing else, allow us to light torches along the way, even if they are only temporary.

This is my only real gripe about the quest. Making it so that everyone is required to huddle around the one person holding the "torch" just doesn't appeal to me very much.

I'll just go back to soloing it, and then inviting people along to get their end reward and open chests once the quest is done.

I'm pretty sure that's not the way they (the dev's) want the quest run either, but meh.. There it is.

I don't mind showing people how to run a quest every so often.. I'm just not fond of having to do it over and over and over again, because someone is lagging.. Or having connection issues.. Or is maptarded... Or whatever.

[Palmetto]

Good idea but it should light up earlier, like once you do the "rainbow" switches as you lose the arc and can no longer go back in the dungeon. This will be a real PitA as you cannot go back for optional chests. We always liked to leave the trap chests until after completion as the chance of failure was too high to bother with before the quest was done.

****, now I am agreeing with the OP :)
** Gaze deeply into my eyes! ** :eek:

[smatt]

No biggee, nothing to get the panties all waded up into a big wet mess...... :p

Sure it'll be a pain in the arse, and it means it'll slow down the loot run to a loot crawl :(

It just means that this quest will ONLY be run when someone NEEDS to be flagged or NEEDS the STONE.

Rest in peace Rainbow in the Dark..........

[Palmetto]

No biggee, nothing to get the panties all waded up into a big wet mess...... :p

Sure it'll be a pain in the arse, and it means it'll slow down the loot run to a loot crawl :(

It just means that this quest will ONLY be run when someone NEEDS to be flagged or NEEDS the STONE.

Rest in peace Rainbow in the Dark..........
Amen. :cool:

[Cashiry]

ARC Equpped--Normal Gamma
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Cashery/ScreenShot00016.jpg

ARC Equipped--Gamma all the way up
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Cashery/ScreenShot00017.jpg

ARC not Equipped--Normal Gamma
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Cashery/ScreenShot00015.jpg

ARC not equipped--Gamma all the way up
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Cashery/ScreenShot00014.jpg

[binnsr]

If they were so careful as to make sure the darkness can't be bypassed, they should also make sure that

A. Races that get Darkvision actually can use it
-and-
B. That there's more than one light source (At least make everbright weapons have the Radiant Arc effect). Forcing the party to all stick together for the duration of the quest just doesn't work in a real time game world.

If nothing else, allow us to light torches along the way, even if they are only temporary.

good call.

[Palmetto]

ARC Equpped--Normal Gamma
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Cashery/ScreenShot00016.jpg

ARC Equipped--Gamma all the way up
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Cashery/ScreenShot00017.jpg

ARC not Equipped--Normal Gamma
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Cashery/ScreenShot00015.jpg

ARC not equipped--Gamma all the way up
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Cashery/ScreenShot00014.jpg
........... and there you have it! Total darkness! Keep up or perish! :cool:

[Gurbatonden_Puggh]

Thats what they intended it to be dude.





Just kidding-lol. Now only if they went back and made some changes to..... I don't know, a certain raid, instead of fixing something that isn't broke.

[Palmetto]

Thats what they intended it to be dude.
I knew I could count on you Gurb! Thanks for the back-up! :rolleyes:

[moorewr]

Yes, that could help too, and would also be useful for people who have already put the Radiant Arc in the final slot before they got the optional chests.

For stragglers it's still a poor fix. Although it allows them to eventually find the way to their chest, it doesn't let them catch up to the point where they can help fight monsters or otherwise have fun before it ends.

It will at least keep you from being (intentionally or unintentionally) griefed if you are the straggler and you want to get the wedge even if you get nothing else from the quest.

[Angelus_dead]

Thats what they intended it to be dude.
As has already been explained above, not everything that someone intended is necessarily a good idea.

[Qzipoun]

As has already been explained above, not everything that someone intended is necessarily a good idea.

B-b-but maybe they intended it to not be a good idea!! :)

*logs in game and gets last character shroud prepped before tomorrow* I think the quest is annoying enough as is after the first time it is completed (darkness isn't only factor)

[Palmetto]

B-b-but maybe they intended it to not be a good idea!! :)

*logs in game and gets last character shroud prepped before tomorrow* I think the quest is annoying enough as is after the first time it is completed (darkness isn't only factor)
****! If you're agreeing with me, maybe I need to reevaluate my OP! :eek:

j/k

[Gunga]

As has already been explained above, not everything that someone intended is necessarily a good idea.

Nor is everything that falls out of your hole.

[Samadhi]

Nice, real nice. :rolleyes:

So the devs changed the quest to work as originally intented and now you can't use your cheese to get through the quest. And for that we get your "no noobs" rant, pathetic.

Dude, I'm sure I can make it through that quest with no gamma or staff at this point, at least on my rogue. But am I going to want to take other people in with me now that are going to take DAYS? Not going to happen. This quest just became, like Coalescence, a quest I will run frequently - but never advertise because I don't want to babysit folks through it.

Originally intended? Of course; but there is a difference between playability and sticking with original intent. See all A_D's threads on the Abbot. /out

[KoboldKiller]

Thats what they intended it to be dude.





Just kidding-lol. Now only if they went back and made some changes to..... I don't know, a certain raid, instead of fixing something that isn't broke.


How wasn't it broken? It was intended to be ran using the Arc not by adjusting your gamma level.


You know Turbine might as well change it from "New Player Experience" to the "Me Player Experience" because all the gripe seems to be about is "now I actually have to be a team player in a team game". I thank God the first people I met in game were not some of you as I would have quit and never come back. Yes the speed runners can still plow through and leave people behind, ohhh good for you. How is that good for the game to alienate players who may be new to the quest? My sig mentions to remember you were new once too, maybe you should think about that. I could have plowed through Madstone last night but a couple players were not familiar so I took the time to teach them the quest. So it took a bit longer big deal. Have fun with your speed runs and your l33tness I'll stay with the newbs not n00bs.

[Cashiry]

I'm sure I can make it through that quest with no gamma or staff at this point, at least on my rogue.

Not any more. you will have to have the arc equipped to see.

[Palmetto]

Dude, I'm sure I can make it through that quest with no gamma or staff at this point, at least on my rogue. But am I going to want to take other people in with me now that are going to take DAYS? Not going to happen. This quest just became, like Coalescence, a quest I will run frequently - but never advertise because I don't want to babysit folks through it.

Originally intended? Of course; but there is a difference between playability and sticking with original intent. See all A_D's threads on the Abbot. /out


Not any more. you will have to have the arc equipped to see.
i.e. see post number 74. :cool:

[boldarblood]

Hate the change. Not going to bother with the quest anymore (used to be one of my favs). One time, guild groups only, fast run, get flagged, done.

I've no desire to try to pug this for a couple hours. I can find much better things to do with my time than wait around while people try to keep up (I only have limited time to play and dont need to waste a bunch of time in a quest with so little reward).

[Reisz]

Oh really? Give an example.

Von 4 & 5 for sure.
Could argue for most raids (though not really apples to apples)
Any quest with respawn.
Any long quest chains/series that require you to be present in order to advance.
Probably many others that I can not think of atm.

[MrCow]

This change, personally, won't bother me in the least. I've been doing this quest at standard gamma without using the arc for quite a while. I will be sad that I can't blind people who turn their gamma all the way up by casting blur/displacement on them anymore though. :p

[Angelus_dead]

Von 4 & 5 for sure.
Could argue for most raids (though not really apples to apples)
Any quest with respawn.
Any long quest chains/series that require you to be present in order to advance.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. And wrong.

None of those are the same, or even really similar to this pervasive effect of "good luck even moving through any section of the quest if you don't have the single item". Having a specific point where a door seals is not on the same level, especially when someone gains equal credit for saying on the wrong side of the door.

[Palmetto]

This change, personally, won't bother me in the least. I've been doing this quest at standard gamma without using the arc for quite a while. I will be sad that I can't blind people who turn their gamma all the way up by casting blur/displacement on them anymore though. :p
Nice try bud. Check out the screenshots in post 74. You better use the arc or you aren't going anywhere! :cool:

[Reisz]

These are all obstacles to a delayed player, are they not?

VON - Player is AFK, player returns and asks someone to let him in.
Rainbow - Player is AFk, player returns and asks someone to come get him.

Of course the mechanism is different. That is what I stated from the start. The Dev's are trying to mix things up (for good or ill).

[moorewr]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

Ahhhhhh. Don't mind me.. I'm just enjoying your suffering..

[Palmetto]

Ahhhhhh. Don't mind me.. I'm just enjoying your suffering..
As I pour through this thread I fail to see any mention of me suffering. Come back a little later after you actually read the thread. ;)

[moorewr]

As I pour through this thread I fail to see any mention of me suffering. Come back a little later after you actually read the thread. ;)

Whereas you didn't even make it through my first sentence: "Don't mind me." Pity.

[Lifespawn]

Whereas you didn't even make it through my first sentence: "Don't mind me." Pity.

why even post?

[sirgog]

Just because something is "as intended" doesn't mean it's good. Exhibit A: Black Abbot raid.

Sometimes game designers will screw up and misjudge a quest. When that happens, it's possible an unintended exploit is actually more fun than the original concept.

It's true that the majority of players were exploiting gama to be able to see when they shouldn't have. But the alternative is to carry the slowbies as soulstones so they don't get lost. This change doesn't add challenge for those who are already good players- but it punishes mediocre players.

/signed.

I've run Rainbow less than the other Vale quests, so I don't know it all that well. I'm already dreading being in groups where the idiotically-designed Mario Skills jump bit splits the party between the twitch gamers with the Scepter (who zerg ahead) and the non-twitchers who fall in the spikes and can't get to the end for their loot. That jump was frustrating enough to get inexperienced players through even before the changes.


Personally I'll wait if I have the Arc, but I'll bet a lot of people won't, and Rainbow will become hard to get into groups for unless you know it. Kinda like how Crucible is if you are a Rogue and don't know the evasion parts - I'll take you, but most PUGs won't.

[moorewr]

why even post?

Yes, why?

[Grond]

Originally intended? Of course; but there is a difference between playability and sticking with original intent. See all A_D's threads on the Abbot. /out

Better yet, see all the threads by the people beating it because they spent their time learning it rather than posting about how unplayable it was...

[Missing_Minds]

You only *now* noticed this? *LAUGHS at the OPs noobish face, as it takes one to know one*

Have fun crying. I'll be having fun playing the game.

[Palmetto]

You only *now* noticed this? *LAUGHS at the OPs noobish face, as it takes one to know one*

Have fun crying. I'll be having fun playing the game.
Are you new here!?!? I'll be playing the game, I'm just not going to take the time to babysit you through a quest like Rainbow anymore. :cool:

[Angelus_dead]

Nice try bud. Check out the screenshots in post 74. You better use the arc or you aren't going anywhere! :cool:
The map still works for XY positioning. I have the Z path memorized and can deal with that.

[Palmetto]

The map still works for XY positioning. I have the Z path memorized and can deal with that.
OK, so are you going to XYZ path your way back to the toolbox that can't find his way out of a wet paper bag, or are you going to leave him? Or, are you going to even waste your time grouping with him?

[MrCow]

Nice try bud. Check out the screenshots in post 74. You better use the arc or you aren't going anywhere!

On live the walls emit a faint enough outline that you can still see the walls and whatnot, even at 1.00 gamma. On Risia it no longer does. Your screenshots don't capture what it still looks like on live without the arc at 1.00 gamma.

[Palmetto]

On live the walls emit a faint enough outline that you can still see the walls and whatnot, even at 1.00 gamma. On Risia it no longer does. Your screenshots don't capture what it still looks like on live without the arc at 1.00 gamma.
Sooooooooo tomorrow afternoon you're going to have a little problem then, aren't you?

[alchilito]

Sooooooooo tomorrow afternoon you're going to have a little problem then, aren't you?

Obviously you wont, since the only hand you need to hold is your own uber guy.

[Inspire]

You guys havent memorized this quest yet? ...:D

The only think I'll be disapointed about is if I do need to equip the stupid Sceptre when soloing with my melees... Id like to see you glow even if the Sceptre is not equipt, but rather just in your pack or on your person.

[jjflanigan]

GAH!!! OH NOES!!!! There's a quest in the game that actually requires people to stick together and act like a team instead of acting like 5 people "soloing together"?!?!

What is the world coming to when we have to work through a dungeon as a team, that's just not right!

[Flovius]

Give us torches to use, that would very cool, very D&D like, or a spell that casts light (aoe) or something comparable, that way if you want to zerg you still can or if you want to stick with the party thats available as well.

[Palmetto]

GAH!!! OH NOES!!!! There's a quest in the game that actually requires people to stick together and act like a team instead of acting like 5 people "soloing together"?!?!

What is the world coming to when we have to work through a dungeon as a team, that's just not right!
Here you go again, telling me how I need to play the game otherwise I'm wrong!

[MrCow]

Don't forget that you can always create your own light. :)

Courtesy of Cone of Cold or Fireball.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00018.jpg

[jjflanigan]

Here you go again, telling me how I need to play the game otherwise I'm wrong!

Actually...I never said that, so you fail at post interpretation 101.

The devs made a quest with a faulty mechanic that people were able to bypass. The fixed the quest to work as intended, which now makes people work as a team, and some people are complaining. All I stated, albeit in a sarcastic manner, was that people are getting upset because the devs are making you complete *1* quest as a group that has to stick together. Didn't say it was right or wrong or that you were right or wrong.

[Palmetto]

Actually...I never said that, so you fail at post interpretation 101.

The devs made a quest with a faulty mechanic that people were able to bypass. The fixed the quest to work as intended, which now makes people work as a team, and some people are complaining. All I stated, albeit in a sarcastic manner, was that people are getting upset because the devs are making you complete *1* quest as a group that has to stick together. Didn't say it was right or wrong or that you were right or wrong.
And you assume we won't find another bypass.

[Angelus_dead]

Don't forget that you can always create your own light.
Have you verified that?

[Angelus_dead]

The devs made a quest with a faulty mechanic that people were able to bypass. The fixed the quest to work as intended
As you'd know if you had read this thread, just because a mechanic was intended doesn't mean it's good.

Let's see if I can remember another quest whose faulty mechanic was bypassed until fixed to work as intended... oh yeah, Ascension Chamber. That turned out real well!

[MrCow]

Have you verified that?

Sorry, I lack the ability to Photoshop Rainbow in the Dark with ambient bluish lighting. The screenshot is my verification.

[Inspire]

Sorry, I lack the ability to Photoshop Rainbow in the Dark with ambient bluish lighting. The screenshot is my verification.

The nerve of some people... :D

[Angelus_dead]

Sorry, I lack the ability to Photoshop Rainbow in the Dark with ambient bluish lighting. The screenshot is my verification.
Oh, are there plat sellers spamming tells on Risia too?

If your screenshot is not from Risia, then it's not really verification that you can "always" create your own light. According to the release notes, "You cannot see inside Rainbow in the Dark without the Radient Arc". If we take that literally, then casting glowy spells won't help.

[jjflanigan]

As you'd know if you had read this thread, just because a mechanic was intended doesn't mean it's good.

Let's see if I can remember another quest whose faulty mechanic was bypassed until fixed to work as intended... oh yeah, Ascension Chamber. That turned out real well!

Nope, I actually read the whole thread, so thank you Mr. Assumey. But, just because a few players don't think it's good doesn't mean it isn't.

It's unique, it's not that hard to deal with if people use any amount of intelligence when playing and it adds a different layer to *1* quest in the game.

Also, a person making a mistake in the past doesn't automatically mean all other decisions they make are faulty...you should know that.

[jjflanigan]

And you assume we won't find another bypass.

Nope, I don't assume that at all. Again, I never stated anything even remotely like that.

[MrCow]

Fine, Angelus_dead, Risian proof.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/ScreenShot00020.jpg


For the record, you only asked if I verified that light was able to be created, not necessarily on Risia.

[DaveyCrockett]

Fine, Angelus_dead, Risian proof.


Tu tienes es servicio

[Angelus_dead]

For the record, you only asked if I verified that light was able to be created, not necessarily on Risia.
Wrong:

Don't forget that you can always create your own light.
Notice the word "always", which I already had pointed out.

[Aerniel]

-grabs some popcorn and watches intently-

[MrCow]

I might need some of that popcorn too if more proof is required. :p


Notice the word "always", which I already had pointed out.

That was your over interpretation of the word always extending to things beyond live. (Yes, I will admit that it could be used that way, but I didn't intend for that and used it as I naturally speak)

[Missing_Minds]

Are you new here!?!? I'll be playing the game, I'm just not going to take the time to babysit you through a quest like Rainbow anymore. :cool:

Judging by your attitude, yes, I'd say you are new here. Please name the quest.. oh, you did. Rainbow in the DARK.

Even the person you like to quote could read.
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Module_8_Risia_Official#General_Ques t_Changes

"Rainbow in the Dark
* The inhabitants of the Den of Obscurity forgot to pay their electric bill and now visitors must have the Radiant Arc equipped to be able to see. "


"All very successful commanders are prima donnas and must be so treated. " - G. S. Patton.

[impz]

Judging by your attitude, yes, I'd say you are new here. Please name the quest.. oh, you did. Rainbow in the DARK.

"All very successful commanders are prima donnas and must be so treated. " - G. S. Patton.

And yet another reason why a newbie like me is extremely fearful of this quest. The last time I tried this, I slowed down the group so much that I refuse to even try anymore (thankfully, it turns out that you don't have to do this every single time for a Shroud run). I guess it's clearly a difference between the have and have-nots in the game, but I did see some extremely ugly behavior in the threads that I hope I will never meet in the game.

[Mockduck]

The noobs are the people who require Mr. Gamma boost to babysit them through a quest that isn't difficult to do by using the easily provided method of having the arc. Experienced players are aware of the best way to run the quest, i.e. - without resorting to newbish weakness caused by using cheap gamma thrills.

You all suck and I hate you!

Just kidding. Thought I'd be mean, since that seems to be the theme of the night. I've been using the arc since the first time I ran Rainbow and didn't like the way the gamma looked. I've done fine in there. Either way's fine with me. I liked the idea of the darkness, sucks that lots of people aren't willing to go along with it.

[PurdueDave]

And yet another reason why a newbie like me is extremely fearful of this quest. The last time I tried this, I slowed down the group so much that I refuse to even try anymore (thankfully, it turns out that you don't have to do this every single time for a Shroud run). I guess it's clearly a difference between the have and have-nots in the game, but I did see some extremely ugly behavior in the threads that I hope I will never meet in the game.

It's definitely "have's" and "have-not's". You'll get far by being in the "have's" for class, honesty, and patience. Some people ignore that but most folks in this game aren't *********.

[MrCow]

Thought I'd be mean, since that seems to be the theme of the night.

Yes, all of us could probably do well by settling down and reading one of these:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Ukenburger/Forum/forAD.jpg

Its been a bit nasty in here.

[impz]

The noobs are the people who require Mr. Gamma boost to babysit them through a quest that isn't difficult to do by using the easily provided method of having the arc. Experienced players are aware of the best way to run the quest, i.e. - without resorting to newbish weakness caused by using cheap gamma thrills.

You all suck and I hate you!

Just kidding. Thought I'd be mean, since that seems to be the theme of the night. I've been using the arc since the first time I ran Rainbow and didn't like the way the gamma looked. I've done fine in there. Either way's fine with me. I liked the idea of the darkness, sucks that lots of people aren't willing to go along with it.

I think it's a good change, courder. The sad thing is that I don't think I will go for this quest because I swear most of the pugs will go like "Only people who know their way." I clearly don't, and I think I died four times the last time I went there because I was a laggard. Sigh.

*_* This teaches me never to play a mmorpg with bad hand reflexes.

[moorewr]

The noobs are the people who require Mr. Gamma boost to babysit them through a quest that isn't difficult to do by using the easily provided method of having the arc. Experienced players are aware of the best way to run the quest, i.e. - without resorting to newbish weakness caused by using cheap gamma thrills.

I like that "Mr. Gamma Boost" bit. Might have to rethink my Halloween costume. :p

[Missing_Minds]

And yet another reason why a newbie like me is extremely fearful of this quest. The last time I tried this, I slowed down the group so much that I refuse to even try anymore (thankfully, it turns out that you don't have to do this every single time for a Shroud run). I guess it's clearly a difference between the have and have-nots in the game, but I did see some extremely ugly behavior in the threads that I hope I will never meet in the game.

It honestly isn't that bad as people are making the quest out to be. While those that "have" will certainly make the quest a breeze, it is having knowledge that really helps more. That and a willingness to teach. Whenever a person speaks up that they don't know it, I slow down a lot. I let them have the time they desire to actually look about, see the sights, etc.

It really is all a question of whom you end up being able to party up with. Some people can't stand things that take more than 3 minutes. Me... I want to win, I want to own it, but above all I want ALL to have fun. So if that means slowing down, helping out, and teaching people, hey, I still have fun. :) Granted one of the first things I ask when finding out a person is new to the quest is ask if they want anything explained or if they want things explained as we go. Just different mentalities between the op and myself. In no way am I saying that I am better than the op, or that the ops way of thinking is wrong. They aren't. He's got his opinion and I've got mine.

[Alexander_Illusioni]

Hey, this is going to be fun when the arc holder dies, and recalls out. If he dies too far away from his companions, how will they see to recover the arc? At least I know someone who can run it in the dark!

I do not think the change was worth any time spent on it, as anyone could play the quest as designed by just leaving their gamma low, and those who wanted to make it easier could do so as well. Not a big deal (the change), but not worth the time to redo IMO.

The change will not make it any harder to solo quickly. It will mean less people get invites into the quest, unfortunately.

[MrCow]

Hey, this is going to be fun when the arc holder dies, and recalls out. If he dies too far away from his companions, how will they see to recover the arc?

Objects on the ground are perfectly illuminated (soulstones, the new purple bags for monster collectables, and I think the Radiant Arc when it drops on the ground).

I don't quite remember if the Radiant Arc is Drop on Death, but it should show up on the black ground in your described situation as it is Drop on Leaving Adventure.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

Stop running ahead and being an ass.

[scoti2]

Personally with everything that is being said from all that have contributed to the thread. It all basically comes down to play your alignment properly, If you are Lawful/Good in any way you are not gonna run off on a "Noob" per say wether they are new or not. If your chaotic well see ya stranger not having anything to do with ya cause that loot is mine. DDO should really put alignment into play in this game because that is a major item missing from the whole Dungeon and Dragon's core.

[redoubt]

if They Were So Careful As To Make Sure The Darkness Can't Be Bypassed, They Should Also Make Sure That

A. Races That Get Darkvision Actually Can Use It
-and-
B. That There's More Than One Light Source (at Least Make Everbright Weapons Have The Radiant Arc Effect). Forcing The Party To All Stick Together For The Duration Of The Quest Just Doesn't Work In A Real Time Game World.

If Nothing Else, Allow Us To Light Torches Along The Way, Even If They Are Only Temporary.

Yes!

[moorewr]

Giving any class something that would temporarily push back the darkness is a good idea.. for example, using a charge on an everbright weapon... or cone of cold/fireball as in MrCow's example.

[TheGreatEye]

It honestly isn't that bad as people are making the quest out to be. While those that "have" will certainly make the quest a breeze, it is having knowledge that really helps more. That and a willingness to teach. Whenever a person speaks up that they don't know it, I slow down a lot. I let them have the time they desire to actually look about, see the sights, etc.

It really is all a question of whom you end up being able to party up with. Some people can't stand things that take more than 3 minutes. Me... I want to win, I want to own it, but above all I want ALL to have fun. So if that means slowing down, helping out, and teaching people, hey, I still have fun. :) Granted one of the first things I ask when finding out a person is new to the quest is ask if they want anything explained or if they want things explained as we go. Just different mentalities between the op and myself. In no way am I saying that I am better than the op, or that the ops way of thinking is wrong. They aren't. He's got his opinion and I've got mine.

QFT

The OP is obviosly disgruntled with the changes to raindbow, but including his lack of desire to help new or unexperienced players is unneccesary. Everyone was new to the game and various quests at some point. You could give this post a hell of a lot more credibility if he would have left that noob bull**** out. There is no place for that in a game that NEEDS an influx of new players

[Amabel]

Meh, I didn't read the five pages, but we knew this was coming. It was such a fast quest surely everyone has ransacked it for ingredients pre-mod anyway.

Hell, half the servers had Rainbow solo speed run contests it was so easy. At least now it'll be working as intended.

[Ringos]

Have you verified that?

A_D, MrCow verifies EVERYTHING! :)

[Samadhi]

Not any more. you will have to have the arc equipped to see.

No - I mean I know the quests and mob spawn points so well that I don't need to see - I checked it out on Risia a good bit already.

[Samadhi]

The change will not make it any harder to solo quickly. It will mean less people get invites into the quest, unfortunately.

This is very correct. The change will not encourage team work; it will encourage people that know how to do it from even bothering to post for more people. Therefore those trying to flag are going to have an even harder time, and enjoyment for the casual player will decrease as a result.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Stop running ahead and being an ass.

You're not the boss of me... neener neener neener

[Sargoth]

Aye, this quest will change from bring whomever along and get them flagged to call on the friends and guildies when you have an alt you need to get flagged. Most people i know and run with avoid a Coal pug like the plague. This quest will now likely be heading in that same direction.

[ahpook]

hey palmetto

Did you try to have some one else equip the arc and then you run out of range and adjust your gamma? It could be that they only can only disable the rendering based on equip status and not range. In which case this change only affects groups where no one wants to hold the arc.

[Vivanto]

Anyone tried to run without dx10 enabled, maybe thats the one that allowed it in the first place, dont see any reason why else it wasnt like that from start in mod6, if thats the intended.

[Elaril]

I'll say this: if I'm STILL lagging and rubberbanding after this change, I'll be a bit dissapointed. Not by the change itself, rather by the priorities demonstrated by the allocation of dev time.

[maddmatt70]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

OP when I would adjust the setting to the gamma setting I would get headaches so I can't have it on that setting. The rest of the party with gamma settings would sprint ahead and I would turn off all the lights and try to keep up and often succeed, but not always. Guess this makes me a noob that needs baby sitting.

[seldarin]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:


Geez mate, i guess you were never a new player at any time were you? You just rocked up one day, all l33t and uber and insta lvl 16. Take a good hard look at yourself. Even if you cant see in the dark, the quest is still dead easy to run WITHOUT light.

When i get my new graphics card, i didnt need to adjust gamma settings etc, hell i never needed to on my old card either. Funny little thing they have in that quest, its called a MAP. IF you look at it, you dont get lost.

Dunno about you but i always keep an eye on party to make sure we are all together, it that changes a quest run from 20 mins to 21 mins, so be it.

Maybe take a bit of a chill break and think about when you were a new player, did everyone treat you with the same disdain that you treat alleged "n00bs". If they did, you shouldve learned that it isnt nice, if they didnt, you shouldve learned how to treat ppl the right way. Either way you shouldve learned, but you didnt.

Your attitude towards new ppl makes me more than happy you arent on our server. Dont need your kind!

[MrWizard]

so a paladin, a cleric, a wizard, a sorc....and not one of them has any kind of light spell....

And the ranger and rogue cannot make a simple torch?

All these powerful people and nothing in the game for them to allow them to see?

It would be cool if all dungeons were kinda that way...but at the same time realistic light sources were used...like torches, light spells...objects in room fireballed catching on fire.

So rainbow will now take a long time to finish...just like colostomy chamber....
Well, you have to admit, the first time was cool....
IF we only had to run things once, it would be cool.

[Mhykke]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/mykeuva/thread-delivers.jpg


I'm not saying I agree or disagree w/ the change, but one question:

Why doesn't my bright, flaming weapon cast any light at all? I don't get it.

[seldarin]

so a paladin, a cleric, a wizard, a sorc....and not one of them has any kind of light spell....

And the ranger and rogue cannot make a simple torch?

All these powerful people and nothing in the game for them to allow them to see?

It would be cool if all dungeons were kinda that way...but at the same time realistic light sources were used...like torches, light spells...objects in room fireballed catching on fire.

So rainbow will now take a long time to finish...just like colostomy chamber....
Well, you have to admit, the first time was cool....
IF we only had to run things once, it would be cool.


Coal Chamber doesnt take that long

[Angelus_dead]

so a paladin, a cleric, a wizard, a sorc....and not one of them has any kind of light spell....
The idea is that Rainbow in the Dark is a special dungeon under the influence of an abnormally-powerful darkness spell, which can only be neutralized by the specific magic built-in to the effect. Player characters are silently assumed to use appropriate lighting in other dungeons.

[Angelus_dead]

Coal Chamber doesnt take that long
It only takes a long time if you are careful to move at the speed of your slowest player so that everyone travels together. However, in Coalesence you have the option to leave him behind and tell him to try catching up later, something that won't work in the new Rainbow.

[Leyoni]

In the list of pointless threads this has to rank right up there with the ones about how TWF is broken and has to be fixed. Only, in this particular case the change fixed the quest so that it now does what it was always intended to do. Changing display settings was an exploit and so eliminating that should have been expected. It is no different than fixing any other exploit.

So, while there is at least some legitimate concern over character imbalance there is absolutely no reason to cry over this change.

[sephiroth1084]

The idea is that Rainbow in the Dark is a special dungeon under the influence of an abnormally-powerful darkness spell, which can only be neutralized by the specific magic built-in to the effect. Player characters are silently assumed to use appropriate lighting in other dungeons.

Personally, I'd like some more dungeons to exhibit these kind of effects, though perhaps giving players some better/more common light sources such as:

-a Light spell
-some glow (less than from the weapon in Rainbow) emitted by magical weapons
-an item that may be picked up in the quest (similar to Rainbow), but that does not take up an item slot (gives player glow or animation of something floating around them just by being in inventory)
-an item in the trinket slot that does this

I will say that the light effect while the weapon is being swung is also cool, so that's a big plus also.

As it stands, I always have refused to adjust my gamma or whatever settings in there, and have gone so far as to abandon my shield on my intimitank to dual wield my Mineral II dwarven axe/smiter/muckdoom/greater elemental bane with the Radiant Arc (not a bad weapon to beat with actually).

Discovered that PC attack bonuses are either too high, or enemy AC is too low, if someone without any TWF feats, can dual, with Power Attack/Combat Expertise on, and still land nearly every hit.

And to respond to an earlier poster, the only things in DDO that make running this quest difficult (as per keeping the group together) are: impatient players and lag.

[Daedalis]

If they were so careful as to make sure the darkness can't be bypassed, they should also make sure that

A. Races that get Darkvision actually can use it
-and-
B. That there's more than one light source (At least make everbright weapons have the Radiant Arc effect). Forcing the party to all stick together for the duration of the quest just doesn't work in a real time game world.

If nothing else, allow us to light torches along the way, even if they are only temporary.

I remember a spell from my PnP days called Light....cast it on the end of a stick and instance torch :).

And if i can't bypass the darkness.....I want to attack the darkness....I cast magic missle....:D

[Angelus_dead]

In the list of pointless threads this has to rank right up there with the ones about how TWF is broken and has to be fixed. Only, in this particular case the change fixed the quest so that it now does what it was always intended to do. Changing display settings was an exploit and so eliminating that should have been expected. It is no different than fixing any other exploit.
Stay classy.

[seldarin]

It only takes a long time if you are careful to move at the speed of your slowest player so that everyone travels together. However, in Coalesence you have the option to leave him behind and tell him to try catching up later, something that won't work in the new Rainbow.

If you take the time to explain to your slowest player as you moving what is going on, as i stated quest doesnt take that long. I am usually the slowest player in the groups i have been in and it doesnt take that long

[Angelus_dead]

The hilarious thing here is that even though elite powergamers won't be hurt by this change, they understand the implications will be rough on bad players- the kinds of people who complain "I never used to get into raids until they needed me to come pull more loot". So they're protesting to protect bad players from being locked out of enjoying this quest, while meanwhile people who don't really remember how gameplay goes are in-favor because they think removing a workaround will hurt "elitists" whom they resent.

[Angelus_dead]

If you take the time to explain to your slowest player as you moving what is going on, as i stated quest doesnt take that long. I am usually the slowest player in the groups i have been in and it doesnt take that long
"Oh guys I think maybe I fell, what do I do? I can't see you"

[MrWizard]

The idea is that Rainbow in the Dark is a special dungeon under the influence of an abnormally-powerful darkness spell, which can only be neutralized by the specific magic built-in to the effect. Player characters are silently assumed to use appropriate lighting in other dungeons.

so, we got weapons and equipment that let us teleport all over the world, weapons that do incredible things (even raise dead), clerics and sorcs and wizzies of the highest caliber in Eberron, of the highest level..... crafting things of incredible power..

and no one can make a magical bic lighter/torch....?


rerolll.....lol



and another thing....just pour some oil on the halfling barbarian and light him up......then haste the group and follow him throught he dungeon. Not only will he get to the end quickly, but nothing draws more aggro than a flaming screaming hasted halfling running through a dungeon..

if that is not powerful magic, I do not know what is.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You're not the boss of me... neener neener neener

No, but I spoke to Sexy and she says she is your boss and you have to behave. :D

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It only takes a long time if you are careful to move at the speed of your slowest player so that everyone travels together. However, in Coalesence you have the option to leave him behind and tell him to try catching up later, something that won't work in the new Rainbow.

You have that option if you are an ass. This is a TEAM game...why are some of you so opposed to playing as a team? How do people expect to keep the population of this game up (and therefore enough subs to keep Turbine in business) if you treat each other like ****?

[Mekkah]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:



You mention the word "we"...I think you mean "I". I can't speak for everyone else, but the first time I ran Rainbow in the Dark, I didn't even think to turn my gamma up until a few runs later when someone mentioned it to me.

I dunno...perhaps I just enjoy a good challenge, as well as helping first-time players through a quest (as so many great players have helped me in the past).

Regardless if people who play this game are long-time D&D PnP players, EVERYONE was a "noob" with DDO.

-Mek

[sephiroth1084]

The hilarious thing here is that even though elite powergamers won't be hurt by this change, they understand the implications will be rough on bad players- the kinds of people who complain "I never used to get into raids until they needed me to come pull more loot". So they're protesting to protect bad players from being locked out of enjoying this quest, while meanwhile people who don't really remember how gameplay goes are in-favor because they think removing a workaround will hurt "elitists" whom they resent.

I enjoyed Rainbow the first time through, with no idea what to do, and have resisted memorizing the entire dungeon (though obviously some bits have stuck), and continue to enjoy it.

My friend who is TERRIBLE at platforming, and who falls in the spikes at the pit with the multi-level pillars at LEAST twice/run enjoys the quest.

And if there is a concern about elite players running off with the light, give it to the new player. At the very least, they will be able to find their way at their own pace.

[Palmetto]

The hilarious thing here is that even though elite powergamers won't be hurt by this change, they understand the implications will be rough on bad players- the kinds of people who complain "I never used to get into raids until they needed me to come pull more loot". So they're protesting to protect bad players from being locked out of enjoying this quest, while meanwhile people who don't really remember how gameplay goes are in-favor because they think removing a workaround will hurt "elitists" whom they resent.

This is a very nice summary of what this thread is about. Thank you.

/salute

[Angelus_dead]

And if there is a concern about elite players running off with the light, give it to the new player. At the very least, they will be able to find their way at their own pace.
Oh great, yeah, give it to the slowest person.

He'll love making everyone wait for him, and sit there watching him as he screws up jumps again and again. What fun! Instead of being able to quietly follow along, taking his time to make the climbs exactly right and catch up when he can, he'll have the pressure of everyone else waiting for him and staring at his every little mistake. No pressure, no humiliation, no urge to curse out at the devs for a Mario-fixation.

That's as I already explained: complaining about this change is in defense of poor players.

[Braegan]

With that kind of attitude, you must be a part of Legion...



Little un-called for, don't you think?

[Lorichie]

You have that option if you are an ass. This is a TEAM game...why are some of you so opposed to playing as a team? How do people expect to keep the population of this game up (and therefore enough subs to keep Turbine in business) if you treat each other like ****?

DIng DIng DIng. Well said.

R

[Lorichie]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

Stay within your clique and dont open lfm's. Problem solved.

R

[Palmetto]

Stop running ahead and being an ass.

No!

Unless, of course, you are going to quit dragging ass through quests, and continue to wonder "what House is this quest in, anyway?"

[Shaamis]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

Change is horrible. really. It's terrible. Adjusting Gamma was a cheat, it allowed you to bypass the intent of the scenario, which was to work together. Because it was such an EASY cheat, it was accepted, and if you never told anyone, no one would know. but don't fool yourself, you ARE cheating, when you turn your gamma up.

Just because you are used to the cheat, doesnt give you the right to call others noobs. Just because you were able to play in the adventure before the cheat was corrected, doesnt make you any better.

Just accept the change, help those after you to get through the adventure (because they didnt benefit from the cheat like you did) and move on.

[Yaga_Nub]

The hilarious thing here is that even though elite powergamers won't be hurt by this change, they understand the implications will be rough on bad players- the kinds of people who complain "I never used to get into raids until they needed me to come pull more loot". So they're protesting to protect bad players from being locked out of enjoying this quest, while meanwhile people who don't really remember how gameplay goes are in-favor because they think removing a workaround will hurt "elitists" whom they resent.

Actually about a great deal of "elite" powergamers can't do a **** thing without exploits such as this, running quests two or three levels below their level, or always being a part of a six-man party. I think you'll be surprised at how many of the the "elite" powergamers quit doing this quest altogether because their true skill set will be exposed.

[InfidelofHaLL]

hmm really... u can't turn gamma up anyomre i might run it again to see if its still easy or not even though i got ~10 dozen of the stones from their now

[Thame]

Oh here we go with the noob **** again. What does it hurst for anyone to take a new person through a quest? My god. The IDIOTS that post No noobs or no muppets on LFMS prove they must be Jerrys kids. because they were new at one point also.

[Mekkah]

Little un-called for, don't you think?

Maybe just a *little*.

Just speaking from experience.

If I offended thee, I apologize.

[AkromaAoW]

Rainbow is my current favorite quest. The change does not bother me at all. In fact, when I would get with new folks for their first trip through, I wouldn't mention anything about graphic settings so they could experience it the way it was intended. If I count the little pie wedges in my ingredient sack, I see that I have completed Rainbow over 200 times. If anything, I will probably run it more since having to hold the light and stay together makes me feel more like we're a group and not six people doing their own thing that just happen to be together. I still don't understand the purpose of gathering a group just to act solo. As I have written before, whenever I don't desire to be supportive and work with a group, I do my own thing without one.

As for Rainbow, if you live on Thelanis and need a hand with it (or another quest), just give me a shout. I am always willing to help new and inexperienced players with their questing :).

[Shaamis]

Actually about a great deal of "elite" powergamers can't do a **** thing without exploits such as this, running quests two or three levels below their level, or always being a part of a six-man party. I think you'll be surprised at how many of the the "elite" powergamers quit doing this quest altogether because their true skill set will be exposed.

I agree, except for the skills part.

I think we all have the skills to achieve, as long as we work as a team, and have patience. THAT'S the argument made by the OP. He doesn't want to have to WAIT for those who havent run this adventure so many times they lost count.

The fix: be patient, or run with a tight group, as some others have said on this thread.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

give the new guy the light?

go zerge in the dark if you want.

[moorewr]

With that kind of attitude, you must be a part of Legion...

That's uncalled for.

Let me assure you that when I join a Legion group I've never yet seen them leave a player behind.

[miceelf88]

Yeah, I have had nothing but good experiences with Legion folk.

That said, the quest is now working as intended.

I guess I was lucky with the groups I did rainbow and Coal on the one time I went through them-people stuck together, were friendly, and helpful to the new guy (me) who didn't know the quest at all. There are a lot of quest like this, where the new player will have no hope of catching up if they get left behind. Seen it happen in the pit, in stormcleave, hell- crucible. Some quests are just like that. This is not so different, really. Selfish players will be selfish, cool players will be cool. In my experience, the latter outnumbers the former, thankfully, and I and the selfish can happily avoid each other.

[Deragoth]

I thought Rainbow was a loot run? Besides, it's not as if the Scepter sucks. Stuff it in your left hand and move on.

Anyway... Just set the ground rules for the "Pre-Expert" player.

1. Stay next to me/the light.
2. Do what I say. If you don't like it, take the next LFM.
3. If you get lost, recall, I'll get you after the first part is done.
4. If you get lost again, I'm going to tease you, but I'll probably still come get you after we're done.

Sounds easy enough to me.

[Aspenor]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

http://www.crimerant.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/Britney-Spears-crying.jpg

[suitepotato]

DING DING DING, we have a winner! :cool:

No, we don't.

Simple as this, that quest was designed to be harder with the dark, and cooler because of that factor of having to stick together to see. It is designed to force people to stay in a tight group and not spread out, and in that quest that can be dangerous with devils with thf and cleave. You have to work as a coordinated group, protect each other, and quickly slay anything that gets into your midst.

In short it was designed to be ANTI-zerg and foster group cooperation.

The only way people have a problem with this is that they are convinced of their own rightness so much that they can't see any other POV at all, and their POV is that everything should be a zerg-fest yawn for the top 1% of players, and the rest can suck wind. Well, I ran that two or three times before the gamma trick was noted, and it was more fun the intended way.

(BTW, NO ONE should EVER be left behind. The entire point of that quest is to STAY TOGETHER and be a team.)

[seldarin]

"Oh guys I think maybe I fell, what do I do? I can't see you"


Well mate, dunno about you, but you either know if you fell or u didnt, there is no thinking. Nice try, try again.

And yet again, there is a lil ole thing called a MAP, ever heard of it? Oh and here is ANOTHER novel gaming concept, those little blue dots, THEY are your party members.
The "elitists" if you like to call them that, werent complaining on behalf of how it would affect the "bad" players, they were complaining on how it would affect THEMSELVES IF they had alleged "bad" players in THEIR group.

Which player is worse? One who is relatively new to the game/quest or one who has forgotten what it was like to be a new player?

What is your definition of a "bad" player?

[Yaga_Nub]

....What is your definition of a "bad" player?

Well my definition of "bad" does not equal "new" although there are some new players that are bad. :)

Hopefully those that are can be taught and they become "good" players.

Unfortunately that doesn't always happen and that is why we have many "bad" players that have been playing the game for years.

[Hordo]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

Pametto, this is ridiculous. Did you ever play PnP? I understand if you are a "power-gamer" and your full intent is to loot stuff to get to the AH and then send out plat-farming /tells to folks that this would make the quest work properly and thus take a few minutes longer. I play the game because I enjoy it. Would I like EVERY in-cave quest to be like this...yes...because I enjoy the pseudo-role-playing aspect of the game that way...and sometimes am lucky enough to get into a group that actualy does *gasp* role-play. Just because turning your gamma up won't work anymore and they FIXED that CHEAT is not a reason to whine. Take the extra 5 minutes the quest will actually take and beat the thing a little more leisurely. Who knows, you may rediscover something you may have forgotten in your time-shortened grasp at the brass ring...these quests are a whole lot of fun too.

[liamfrancais]

Yes, yes, darkvision please :)

Apart from that, im looking forward to do Rainbow the proper way.

/signed

It is an intended part of the quest and it is a high level quest no babysitting should be required or easy buttons.

[Cashiry]

The hilarious thing here is that even though elite powergamers won't be hurt by this change, they understand the implications will be rough on bad players- the kinds of people who complain "I never used to get into raids until they needed me to come pull more loot". So they're protesting to protect bad players from being locked out of enjoying this quest, while meanwhile people who don't really remember how gameplay goes are in-favor because they think removing a workaround will hurt "elitists" whom they resent.


Agree with you... A_D

[seldarin]

This is a very nice summary of what this thread is about. Thank you.

/salute


That didnt summarise it at all. To summarise your thread, you are complaining about how the "bad" players are going to hamper YOU because of the changes. YOU dont care at all about the "bad" players, all you care about is how the changes will affect YOU by affecting them.

So to summarise the thread is about YOU and nothing else.

[moorewr]

Well mate, dunno about you, but you either know if you fell or u didnt, there is no thinking. Nice try, try again.

And yet again, there is a lil ole thing called a MAP, ever heard of it? Oh and here is ANOTHER novel gaming concept, those little blue dots, THEY are your party members.
The "elitists" if you like to call them that, werent complaining on behalf of how it would affect the "bad" players, they were complaining on how it would affect THEMSELVES IF they had alleged "bad" players in THEIR group.

I should point out that the map and the blue dots on it are remarkably little help to a user in Rainbow in the Dark (or the Coalescence Chamber for that matter).

[seldarin]

Oh great, yeah, give it to the slowest person.

He'll love making everyone wait for him, and sit there watching him as he screws up jumps again and again. What fun! Instead of being able to quietly follow along, taking his time to make the climbs exactly right and catch up when he can, he'll have the pressure of everyone else waiting for him and staring at his every little mistake. No pressure, no humiliation, no urge to curse out at the devs for a Mario-fixation.

That's as I already explained: complaining about this change is in defense of poor players.

Nope, it isnt in defense of the "poor" players as you put it. Well actually yes it is, because the really "poor" players are the elitist snobs that have forgotten what its like to be a new player, to not have all the gear, to not have the quest memorised, to now be able to zerg a quest in 5 mins.

The only time they would be under pressure is if tools like YOU are putting them there. Display patience and the job is so much better, behave like and elitist snob and suddenly there is pressure.

Just a clue, stick to your clicky elitist snobby groups and leave the rest of the population alone. Should make for a fun quest for you when all your egos get in the way of each other and you start failing quests because everyone wants to be a hero!

[Draccus]

Very cool!

I've only run Rainbow once but I was pretty disappointed when I was told "turn up your gamma and follow us" as we zerged the whole thing.

I love when quests throw something unique at you and Rainbow has it now.

Nice job, Turbine!!

[seldarin]

I agree, except for the skills part.

I think we all have the skills to achieve, as long as we work as a team, and have patience. THAT'S the argument made by the OP. He doesn't want to have to WAIT for those who havent run this adventure so many times they lost count.

The fix: be patient, or run with a tight group, as some others have said on this thread.

Only thing about that is mate, is that the OP has truly forgotten what it was like to be a new player and to have run the quest for the first time. How do you get to run it so many times u have forgotten, easy, by being a new player in a new quest at some point. You dont walk up to a new quest already knowing all about it and all that, unless of course you have no life and spend all your spare waking hours on Risia.

[Yaga_Nub]

Agree with you... A_D

Really?

Have you had your morning coffee?

[Palmetto]

http://www.crimerant.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/Britney-Spears-crying.jpg
Like always, you fail to see the point of the post, so I will slooooow down for you.
I am not crying about the change to the quest. I will continue to run the quest as quickly and easily as I have in the past. However, I will no longer take the time to teach the quest to the unfamiliar because I do not intend to put that much time and effort into a quest as easy as Rainbow.

Contrary to your close minded belief, there are many players with that same philosophy. Therefore, the knee-jerk reaction by Turbine to make this change is not good for the quest nor the game.

[seldarin]

No, we don't.

Simple as this, that quest was designed to be harder with the dark, and cooler because of that factor of having to stick together to see. It is designed to force people to stay in a tight group and not spread out, and in that quest that can be dangerous with devils with thf and cleave. You have to work as a coordinated group, protect each other, and quickly slay anything that gets into your midst.

In short it was designed to be ANTI-zerg and foster group cooperation.

The only way people have a problem with this is that they are convinced of their own rightness so much that they can't see any other POV at all, and their POV is that everything should be a zerg-fest yawn for the top 1% of players, and the rest can suck wind. Well, I ran that two or three times before the gamma trick was noted, and it was more fun the intended way.

(BTW, NO ONE should EVER be left behind. The entire point of that quest is to STAY TOGETHER and be a team.)

I agree entirely. I thought the entire point of the game was to stay together and be a team, that is why you can have more than one in a group. Then again, i could be mistaken :)

[seldarin]

Well my definition of "bad" does not equal "new" although there are some new players that are bad. :)

Hopefully those that are can be taught and they become "good" players.

Unfortunately that doesn't always happen and that is why we have many "bad" players that have been playing the game for years.


True enuff mate, bad doesnt always equal new, which was kinda my point. The OP was talking about "n00bs", ie new players and that then got encompassed into "n00bs = bad". In my experience, which is limited to 2 1/2 years, so i might not have a clue what im talking about, majority of "bad" players are those with an elitist attitude that couldnt give a rats about anyone else and have an ego the size of texas.

But i do agree, new players can be taught, and by definition some new players are bad players, but that is true in any mmo, some people just arent suited to mmos, but IMHO, majority of it is attitude, bad attitude predominately = bad player, just my opinion anyways.

[Palmetto]

Pametto, this is ridiculous. Did you ever play PnP? I understand if you are a "power-gamer" and your full intent is to loot stuff to get to the AH and then send out plat-farming /tells to folks that this would make the quest work properly and thus take a few minutes longer. I play the game because I enjoy it. Would I like EVERY in-cave quest to be like this...yes...because I enjoy the pseudo-role-playing aspect of the game that way...and sometimes am lucky enough to get into a group that actualy does *gasp* role-play. Just because turning your gamma up won't work anymore and they FIXED that CHEAT is not a reason to whine. Take the extra 5 minutes the quest will actually take and beat the thing a little more leisurely. Who knows, you may rediscover something you may have forgotten in your time-shortened grasp at the brass ring...these quests are a whole lot of fun too.

No matter how hard you continue to mold PnP into DDO they are not the same. DDO is not PnP! When you finally let go of the past then we can have a reasonable conversation.

[seldarin]

I should point out that the map and the blue dots on it are remarkably little help to a user in Rainbow in the Dark (or the Coalescence Chamber for that matter).


Actually mate, gotta disagree there, the only time i have found a quest where the map is pretty nigh on useless is the PIT. Apart from that it gives you a pretty good direction sense of where to go. Rainbow doesnt have that many twists and turns or up and down levels.

But each to their own, maybe im just better at map reading than some :)

[Yaga_Nub]

No matter how hard you continue to mold PnP into DDO they are not the same. DDO is not PnP! When you finally let go of the past then we can have a reasonable conversation.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Bebopalula]

I am glad to have some challenges back in the game.

I have even toyed with the idea of dragging my girl, kids, and I to another server to start new so I did not have all the right equipment for the job (thank you O for the idea). Sick of all the cookie cutter groups and such. It is hard for me to listen to people say - What do you mean you only have 200 hps, with all my uber loot I have 250. I play this game to get away from drama and BS - to have more added to it makes it rough.

You might have someone come to your server from another server, knows all the quests and such, knows how to get certain loot, just chooses to play like a noob all over again. I will visit my old server, just wanting a fresh look at the world.

[Palmetto]

I agree entirely. I thought the entire point of the game was to stay together and be a team, that is why you can have more than one in a group. Then again, i could be mistaken :)

The point of the game is entertainment, not a team building exercise. If I want team building then I will enroll in a ropes course.

[arminius]

Sticking together, if that is what it takes to accomplish the mission, does not equal babysitting.

People stick together when they run to the Hound or VoD. Why? Because that is what it takes. If people get separated or go off the main path, respawns swamp them. Can more experienced players survive getting swamped longer than less experienced players, and even possibly make it back to the main group? Yes, but often they will get overwhelmed just the same.

People run Xorian day and night. They run it fast. Do they complain that at certain points they MUST cluster together and work together to accomplish the mission? No. It is just what must be done.

Rainbow in the Dark involves Rainbows. And Dark. Crazy, I know, but this is what it is. Deal with it, or don't.

_

[SableShadow]

I agree entirely. I thought the entire point of the game was to stay together and be a team, that is why you can have more than one in a group. Then again, i could be mistaken :)

Agreed, generally.

Zerging only makes a quest faster if those zerging can kill everything (and I mean *everything*) in the quest without appreciable harm to themselves...that is, they can solo/duo/whatever the quest, and everyone else is just along for the ride.

[Palmetto]

Sticking together, if that is what it takes to accomplish the mission, does not equal babysitting.

People stick together when they run to the Hound or VoD. Why? Because that is what it takes. If people get separated or go off the main path, respawns swamp them. Can more experienced players survive getting swamped longer than less experienced players, and even possibly make it back to the main group? Yes, but often they will get overwhelmed just the same.

People run Xorian day and night. They run it fast. Do they complain that at certain points they MUST cluster together and work together to accomplish the mission? No. It is just what must be done.

Rainbow in the Dark involves Rainbows. And Dark. Crazy, I know, but this is what it is. Deal with it, or don't.

_

Two words as to why Xorian requires more than one person: Planar Girds. Not Team Play. Otherwise it would be too easy to solo farm the hell out of girds (not too tough now, but you do have to at least assemble a party).

[seldarin]

The point of the game is entertainment, not a team building exercise. If I want team building then I will enroll in a ropes course.

Not talking about team building, that is when you tell everyone how great they are. Building a team, and team building are two different things, leastaways they were when i was in the military.

Perhaps you should enrol in a ropes course, maybe if we lucky, might get it wrapped around your neck :)

[seldarin]

Agreed, generally.

Zerging only makes a quest faster if those zerging can kill everything (and I mean *everything*) in the quest without appreciable harm to themselves...that is, they can solo/duo/whatever the quest, and everyone else is just along for the ride.

Soloing/duoing, no problem. BUT, when you are in a party of more, THEN you need to show some consideration for the rest of the group. If you dont want to, then dont group up, stay solo, plain and simple. If there is a quest where you it is harder to solo and easier to group, and that is why you put the group together, then show the rest some consideration. It isnt hard to do, its just like what u do in in RL.

[Kadagan]

actually, He's Not A Troll. He's Voicing His Opinion In A Colorful Way.

You, However, By Coming In Here, Calling Him Names And Not Addressing The Topic Of The Thread, Are Exhibiting The Behavior Of The Latest Wiki Definition Of A Troll.

Congrats On Identifying Yourself.

Op: I'll Reserve My Own Opinion Of The Quest Until After I Complete It This Way.

Qft

[arminius]

Two words as to why Xorian requires more than one person: Planar Girds. Not Team Play. Otherwise it would be too easy to solo farm the hell out of girds (not too tough now, but you do have to at least assemble a party).

So? Xorian has something attractive? So what? A lot of quests do.

If you find a quest has some sort of attraction that makes you want to run it, then you'll have sufficient incentive to meet the requirements for running it. If it doesn't (Necropolis, et al), you won't. What more is there to say?

People found some really good reason to run Rainbow a lot. The cost of running Rainbow was raised. People have to re-evaluate the cost-benefit relationship of running Rainbow. They may make the same decision you make, or may not.

Also uncertain is whether such a basic change in quest valuation was worth the tens of thousands of words expended on it so far.

_

[Braegan]

Two words as to why Xorian requires more than one person: Planar Girds. Not Team Play. Otherwise it would be too easy to solo farm the hell out of girds (not too tough now, but you do have to at least assemble a party).


Off topic. But isn't there a split in Xorian that requires four pads to be stood on to lower a barrier?

[Dracolich]

So my thread on "Darkvision and Lowlight vision" was not so rediculous after all. I flip an upturned finger at the goobers who posted in that thread not wanting racial accurate vision saying you dont need it just adjust your gamma.

[Kadagan]

Sticking together, if that is what it takes to accomplish the mission, does not equal babysitting.

_

When you form a pug and enter the quest even after each person assures that they know the quest and are on the same page as to how fast it's run....

Then:

They decide that their way is better than the predetermined way
The group moves at as snail's pace because people bcome interdependant (such as by needing sceptre light) and people aren't on the same page
It's someone else's fault that they can't see/function/move/hear correctly
Any time they die or fail it's cuz of lag or they rolled a 1 (even though we all know better)
This is baby sitting.. having to hold someone's hand. The typical response to this is then "Don't PUG" well... pugging is a part of this game unless you are in a large guild and only play during your guild's peak times.

The end result of this change is that the overwhelming majority of experienced players will only run it with their friends or guildies. This means that the person new to DDO and the casual gamer are the real ones getting the shaft.

I'm sorry if you don't like this and it offends your sensabilities... I didn't make the change, I'm just showing you what some of the consequences will be. If you need to, then flame on.. but try directing your flames at the cause, not the symptom.

[Film]

Simple solution to remove personal feelings about what fun is and what the game was meant for.

"LFM: Rainbow...we are hauling arse...keep up!"

Do not get upset that you are being excluded if you are unable to do this. You will not enjoy it anyway if you are constantly playing catch up. Twitch skills are required in this run, especially since you will be blindfolded

OR

"LFM: Rainbow...teamwork and communication FTW!"

Charisma is your dump stat and you do not like anyone to get in your way...do not join this group. The ability to laugh at yourself and others while I/you/they fall repeatedly is required. Pack a lunch!

People, mentalities, emotions are different. Find people who enjoy your style and run with them.

[Murderface]

If they were so careful as to make sure the darkness can't be bypassed, they should also make sure that

A. Races that get Darkvision actually can use it
-and-
B. That there's more than one light source (At least make everbright weapons have the Radiant Arc effect). Forcing the party to all stick together for the duration of the quest just doesn't work in a real time game world.

If nothing else, allow us to light torches along the way, even if they are only temporary.
the quest doesnt need the darkness thing imo

[Laith]

The hilarious thing here is that even though elite powergamers won't be hurt by this change, they understand the implications will be rough on bad players- the kinds of people who complain "I never used to get into raids until they needed me to come pull more loot". So they're protesting to protect bad players from being locked out of enjoying this quest, while meanwhile people who don't really remember how gameplay goes are in-favor because they think removing a workaround will hurt "elitists" whom they resent.agree completely.

This is really just more incentive for me to keep soloing/duoing this quest with people that can keep up.
The gap between knowing the quest and not knowing the quest has just gotten larger.

[KoboldKiller]

I don't think racial vision works in a darkness spell anyway.

[MrCow]

Off topic. But isn't there a split in Xorian that requires four pads to be stood on to lower a barrier?

That can be bypassed with Flesh to Stoning things on the pressure plates, improved trip, and other ways to make paperweights. The issue is being on the western side with the puzzle area and needing someone on the eastern side to flip the switch (which might be doable with the upcoming hirelings).

[SableShadow]

Soloing/duoing, no problem. BUT, when you are in a party of more, THEN you need to show some consideration for the rest of the group. If you dont want to, then dont group up, stay solo, plain and simple.

Agreed. Consideration is a two-way street, though.


If there is a quest where you it is harder to solo and easier to group, and that is why you put the group together, then show the rest some consideration. It isnt hard to do, its just like what u do in in RL.

Err...this *is* RL. When I'm in a group with you, you're a real person at the other end of a microphone. Sure, I can't see you (or can I? muhuhuhuhuhahahaha...) but I'm not going to suddenly stop listening to your raid brief because my roomie starts talking to me (I raise one finger and touch my headphones so he knows I'm in conversation). I extend (or should extend, at any rate), the same courtesies I would extend in a face to face game or over the phone. Sure, emotions get high sometimes and we may have a sharp word or two exchanged...I run into that in PnP or LAN parties as well.

[Yaga_Nub]

agree completely.

This is really just more incentive for me to keep soloing/duoing this quest with people that can keep up.
The gap between knowing the quest and not knowing the quest has just gotten larger.

Not if you take the time to actually teach a few people how to do the quest and then they teach a few and then they teach a few and so on and so on......


Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

[Rameses]

Err...this *is* RL. When I'm in a group with you, you're a real person at the other end of a microphone. Sure, I can't see you (or can I? muhuhuhuhuhahahaha...) but I'm not going to suddenly stop listening to your raid brief because my roomie starts talking to me (I raise one finger and touch my headphones so he knows I'm in conversation). I extend (or should extend, at any rate), the same courtesies I would extend in a face to face game or over the phone. Sure, emotions get high sometimes and we may have a sharp word or two exchanged...I run into that in PnP or LAN parties as well.

See heres the problem with that Brenna.
In todays society of faceless anonymity ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anonymity) it's easy to forgo being civil and using such commonplace manners.
Being a Faceless anonymous there is very little accountablilty for your actions and words.

just my thoughts...

I am, Rameses!

[SableShadow]

See heres the problem with that Brenna.
In todays society of faceless anonymity ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anonymity) it's easy to forgo being civil and using such commonplace manners.
Being a Faceless anonymous there is very little accountablilty for your actions and words.

just my thoughts...

I am, Rameses!

True. Doesn't make it right, though. ;)

[Lorichie]

True. Doesn't make it right, though. ;)

Unfortunately its a matter of action and lack of meaningful consequences as opposed to the difference between right and wrong.

R

[SableShadow]

Not if you take the time to actually teach a few people how to do the quest and then they teach a few and then they teach a few and so on and so on......


Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

Most of what I've learned, I've learned in PUGs. Different perspectives, different ways of doing things.

And stuff I've *really* learned, I've learned because I've tried to teach it to someone else.

[Laith]

Not if you take the time to actually teach a few people how to do the quest and then they teach a few and then they teach a few and so on and so on......


Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.look, some people will just never learn to work a reel, or aren't interested.

By leading someone throught the quest, you're not necessarily teaching them squat. They have to be willing to learn. Some people are just natural followers and are happy with that.

[Voalkrynn2]

So, adjusting your gama setting no longer allows you to see inside Rainbow. Now we are relegated to babysitting noobs because of the "guys, I don't know where I am" factor. Not to mention, "hey, I'm in this pit with spikes and can't find a ladder to get out, please help".

Good luck noobs. We don't have the time nor the patience to carry you through yet anther quest.

Flame on. Out. :cool:

I too dislike noobs..........especially rude ones.

Let us know your alts by server so we can avoid having you ruin our game time.

[ubis46]

They didn't kill it. Just made the quest work as originally intended.

Vordax

first let me say that rainbow in the dark is one of my favorite quest, D&D at it best! That being said, there has been one thing that has bugged me from it's inception. there are races that can see in the dark, Dwarf's and Elf's for sure and so when someone told me I was cheating when i turn up my gamma. I told them i was using my infer vision which as a dwarf i am supposed to have.
The developers of this game have taken a us against them attitude, which is destroying the game. The Abbot quest make that clear, but you want to make this quest right then you give the toon's that can see in the dark there infer vision and let the rest use the staff! Remember the whole premise of D&D is to think outside the box.

[SableShadow]

Unfortunately its a matter of action and lack of meaningful consequences as opposed to the difference between right and wrong.

R

Again, true.

The world, however, is not my province. My individual choices are. Do I fail to take the higher course from time to time? Sure. I choose to continue trying. *shrug*

[kaidendager]

The hilarious thing here is that even though elite powergamers won't be hurt by this change, they understand the implications will be rough on bad players- the kinds of people who complain "I never used to get into raids until they needed me to come pull more loot". So they're protesting to protect bad players from being locked out of enjoying this quest, while meanwhile people who don't really remember how gameplay goes are in-favor because they think removing a workaround will hurt "elitists" whom they resent.

Me likey irony. Glad someone was thinking along the same lines before i got through to posting.

If the poorer players are bright eyed and smiles about this update I won't stop em from running headfirst into the pikes...nor will I group with them however. I'm not a big fan of the whole concept of Rainbow in the Dark because it does provide such an 'out of bounds' challenge. I can handle it peachy, most people I group with can handle it peachy, if the remainder think it'll be fun crawling through their wipes good for them.

You go your way I'll go mine, just don't ask me to cover my way then pick up yours :)

[Tresha_D'Artet]

like very few have mentioned before, i actually do enjoy this quest and its also one of my favorites too. my loot luck while infamous still sucks, but hey...i still like the quest and never have any problems at all helpin folks through there.

so to the ones that posted only running through there to be flagged for shroud if your on Thelanis, send me a pm here or in game /tell ill help :)

cya saturday when the servers come back up :D:p

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Ok, another reply. Sincwe this is such a pet peave of mine.

No one joins a group wanting someone else to finish for them. (well, some do I guess).

I do not understand why people cannot wait just a little while to fill up a group before starting a quest.
If you are good enough to solo it, you will just need to take the first five people to join, so it should fill up quick.....no waiting for healer...etc.

I can understand after, say, five min and you have a couple people chomping at the bit. (half a group filled at least)
But then you have to understand that if you leave your LFM up, you will have to go back for someone.

I suppose warning them in the LFM is ok. But you still need to have some consideration for the other guy.

In Rainbow it is soooooo easy! Just take a DDoor and hand the new guy the sceptor, and run off into the dark if you want to.

But even then, if he did not join with the understanding that you were going to complete the quest while he stood in the doorway, then leaving him is in bad taste IMO.

Truthfully, I have no doubt that some of you really enjoy the pain the noobs feel when they struggle to keep up.....some of you freely admit it. Might have to read between the lines, but your sadism is clealry evident.

CC.....an LFM for a cleric only. I join with my cleric and find out that everyone else is inside.
Well, I'm a healer......so....fighting my way to the quest results in my death.
Second attempt I make it inside.
Only to find that absolutely nothing has been killed in the first couple parts of the quest. Can't remember exactly what happens next, but at some point I give up fighting, and just /sit and wait till they complete it.
At no point was any comments made about me having trouble getting to them etc.

Titan. I like prt one of the Titan raid! It's fun. And slightly challenging if you do it on elite. But alas. I will never get to do more than pull a lvr (maybe) and kill the end mindflayer. I also will never again get the two chests in the beginning unless I am the first lockpicker to join, then I will get one of them.
If I'm lucky, I can amuse myself by ranging a WF on the platform that we never bother to lower the bridge for. If I'm especially unlucky, I will have to die because no one left me a stone of some color that I need....since they could not be bothered to do the whole puxzzle or even wait to use an exploit when the full group was ready.

Von 5 is almost as bad.....but they lvr/rune/ranged/trap hallway forces zergers to wait for an almost full group to continue.

TR "we just finished prt one so no end reward for you newguy......but we still need a healer/rogue in our group."

In so many quests, all the chests are opened already....knowing full well that anyone not in the quest will get nothing........and then someone will say "it was a worthless chest anyway" Well, if it was so worthless, why did you not wait for the new guy. Maybe you could just leave it unopened and not interupt your zerging to comeoback for it if it's so worthless.

But Rainbow is easy. 90% of complaints/hard feeling can be solved, just by giving the guy in back the sceptor! You don't have to change a single thing in your playstyle to accomplish that one.

[SciFiCowboy]

Meh, if I get separated in it it with no light. just make a series of Disco Balls to light the way. LOL

"Oh looks like the Bard went this way guys"

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Meh, if I get separated in it it with no light. just make a series of Disco Balls to light the way. LOL

"Oh looks like the Bard went this way guys"

That works?!?!?! lol. I'll try that.

[moorewr]

Meh, if I get separated in it it with no light. just make a series of Disco Balls to light the way. LOL

"Oh looks like the Bard went this way guys"

So let's list things that will give you enough light to navigate the zig-zags over the pits.. (assuming disco balls work still on Risia):

disco ball
fireball
cone of cold
burning hands
wall of fire?
everbright weapon charges?