Why Bother making Raid Armor...

[barecm]

...That is kind of pointless.

Ok so there is crippling armor that drops from the Hound Raid. Pretty nice for a ranged type considering it is a chain shirt and would require high dex to get all the AC bonuses. With the crippling effect, pretty much perfect for a bow user / repeater build... excpet one thing. Doesn't work on ranged. Now rumor has it, it will NOT be fixed next mod. Instead, in yet another stroke of genius, the going rumor is that the TEXT will be fixed to say only melee gets the crippling benefit. Silly. Make a good light armor and then make it so that 90% + of light armor wearers won't us it. White robes and KDS (lesser raid loot by the way) carry a better armor bonus.

This is just another example of why I get so frustrated with this game. Instead of fixing the the armor to fit the original description, they just fix the description to fit the broken ability of the armor.

And people wonder why the population is waning...

[DaveyCrockett]

You hit the nail on the head! Crippling Chain Shirt caused a mass exodus!!

BTW People still range? :eek:

[Jay203]

BTW People still range? :eek:
yessir!
i'm one of them =)
kinda fun to be shooting at stuff from afar and your party has no idea that you're actually helping them out =P

[Samadhi]

...then make it so that 90% + of light armor wearers won't us it...


I might have felt more sympathetic except for this portion...

a) 90% of light armor wearers don't range.
b) 90% of ranged toons are better off in robes.
c) 99% of players don't range as their primary offensive path.

Thanks.

[Jay203]

c) 99% of players don't range as their primary offensive path.

97% !
repeater builds + archer builds should make up at least 2%! :P

[BlackSteel]

i thought this was going to be a complaint about the icey rainments

[Samadhi]

97% !
repeater builds + archer builds should make up at least 2%! :P

hehe, fair enough, didn't think of repeater builds!

[QuantumFX]

While it does suck that weapon effects don't affect ranged/hand to hand attacks…

The chain shirt of crippling is nice for meleers. (And doesn't quite have the fugly factor as the MBP of Destruction.) It's great to finally be able to outrun mobs.

[Ganak]

Omg omg omg crippling chain must be fixed or dooooooommmmmm......

[Tanka]

I quite like my BP of Destruction. It helps all the 3/4 BAB melee hit more often. :p

[BurningDownTheHouse]

I quite like my BP of Destruction. It helps all the 3/4 BAB melee hit more often. :p

Which doesn't mean it's not the ugliest armor in the game :p
On the other hand i use it myself, so probably should shut up now :D

[Bunker]

...That is kind of pointless.

Ok so there is crippling armor that drops from the Hound Raid. Pretty nice for a ranged type considering it is a chain shirt and would require high dex to get all the AC bonuses. With the crippling effect, pretty much perfect for a bow user / repeater build... excpet one thing. Doesn't work on ranged. Now rumor has it, it will NOT be fixed next mod. Instead, in yet another stroke of genius, the going rumor is that the TEXT will be fixed to say only melee gets the crippling benefit. Silly. Make a good light armor and then make it so that 90% + of light armor wearers won't us it. White robes and KDS (lesser raid loot by the way) carry a better armor bonus.

This is just another example of why I get so frustrated with this game. Instead of fixing the the armor to fit the original description, they just fix the description to fit the broken ability of the armor.

And people wonder why the population is waning...

The topic of discussion: Hound Raid Armor

A few of us on Thelanis posted on this topic shortly after the first armors from this raid were looted. I myself has a set on my "ranged" rogue and we brought it to the dev's attention about how it does not work for bows/xbows. They made it clear that the armor works as intended, and that the description just needed to be changed. Now when you mention "Now rumor has it, it will NOT be fixed next mod", that is absolutly true. Why is that true? Because the armor does not need fixing, it works as intended.

[Bunker]

Instead of fixing the the armor to fit the original description, they just fix the description to fit the broken ability of the armor.


To follow up once more on the topic of the Raid Armor that drops in the Hound Quest:

Here is the thread that we had response at: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=149574

Here is the response from the Developer:

The breastplate is intended to grant the Destruction on-hit effect to wielded melee weapons, it will not function with either ranged weapons or unarmed combat (including handwraps). The description will be updated to clarify this. (And no longer refer to the breastplate as "a weapon".)

And here is the link of that particular response: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1746054&postcount=14

I realize that the link and response is about the Breastplate, but it was implied that the response was about BOTH armors in that raid.

[Tanka]

Which doesn't mean it's not the ugliest armor in the game :p
On the other hand i use it myself, so probably should shut up now :D
You're right, it isn't the ugliest armor in the game. There are far uglier ones. Try some Splint Mail sometime, if you loot any.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

You're right, it isn't the ugliest armor in the game. There are far uglier ones. Try some Splint Mail sometime, if you loot any.

Ok, you got me...
I did mean from the armors that are actually usfull (or more to the point, being used) :cool:

[redoubt]

Sure, the devs say it is working as intended. So, now we have:

Jorgondal's collar. Melee only.
Etherial bracers. Melee only.
VoD(?) gloves. Melee only.
Crippling Chain Shirt. Melee only.

It would be fine it there was something on the other side that did work for ranged only, but there is not.

[Samadhi]

Sure, the devs say it is working as intended. So, now we have:

Jorgondal's collar. Melee only.
Etherial bracers. Melee only.
VoD(?) gloves. Melee only.
Crippling Chain Shirt. Melee only.

It would be fine it there was something on the other side that did work for ranged only, but there is not.

Actually there is - black dragon scales...

[Drfirewater79]

I was under the impression that thouse armors where activated by being hit not by hitting others? i thought it was the same as the disruption necklace or bracers what ever it is that works when they hit you. so obviously its not gonna work on ranged people cause your not getting hit.

[Elaril]

You hit the nail on the head! Crippling Chain Shirt caused a mass exodus!!

Stupid Crippling Chain Shirts...always bringing on the ruination of MMORPG's.

There really should be a warning in the item description or something. Something like "Equipping this item will cause your server's population to dwindle and the game to die."

[Tanka]

I was under the impression that thouse armors where activated by being hit not by hitting others? i thought it was the same as the disruption necklace or bracers what ever it is that works when they hit you. so obviously its not gonna work on ranged people cause your not getting hit.
No, the armors are "on swing" and not "on hit" activation. They proc when you connect.

[manfredshw]

turbine hates ranged combat.

[hydra_ex]

turbine hates ranged combat.

more than 75% of the player base hates ranged combat, and 10% more don't like it.

[silverraven]

I was under the impression that thouse armors where activated by being hit not by hitting others? i thought it was the same as the disruption necklace or bracers what ever it is that works when they hit you. so obviously its not gonna work on ranged people cause your not getting hit.

that would be a "____" Guard. Like my greensteel has Slay Living Guard, or a mace that has Air Guard

[adamr09]

more than 75% of the player base hates ranged combat, and 10% more don't like it.


not so sure about that. people dont hate it, they just dont prefer that play style. and idk why people dont like it. ranged combat can do tons of damage (sure maybe not as much as a completely twinked maxd tempest build) but still you should see how fast mobs drop when you combine many shot + haste + human versatility damage boost + what ever uber bow you are using XD

or if you can get your hands on a WoP bow, throw in a lvl or fighter for the haste boost+many shot+haste= TONS of mobs dead in barely anytime.

but anyways, yes i totally agree that it should work with ranged combat.it would help so much to have mobs be running at you slower so you have more time to kill them before they get to you.


-adamr

[Phineasj]

turbine hates ranged combat.

sure, but only when it is our ranged attacks. If the gnolls in the vale, can hamstring you with an arrow, why can't we hit armor destruction with arrow?

[chemonz]

O.K. so the armor isn't supposed to work with ranged. Not a big deal really but it does cause me to ask why not? What is the thinking behind that.

Would a ranged character with crippling armor be overpowered? I find that hard to believe.

Still with all the issues that ranged combat has it really doesn't matter if the hound armors work with ranged or not.

[Mistinarperadnacles]

Its because Crippling is a slow effect and Turbine for whatever reason are very cautious about providing any method of kiting mobs around with no risk.

Seeing as crippled mobs can't catch you, the paranoid fear is that using this will allow people to range everything with impunity. (despite that bows have a sucky crit range and plenty of stuff has fortification or crit immunities)

Hence working as intended on melee only and also why I strongly doubt we'll see much in the way of "ranged love" any time soon.

Ranged combat is kinda handy as a fallback or secondary or support role and thats how they want it to stay.

[Solmage]

I quite like my BP of Destruction. It helps all the 3/4 BAB melee hit more often. :p

You like the gold pajamas? Because I have to make a will save vs fugly each time I load the character using it, and if I roll a 2 I'll just delete the armor - if I roll a 1, I may even delete the character just to remove it from my sight faster! :p

Now, I love the MECHANICS of the mithril pajamas, but ... ****, even on the sexy elven girls it looks bad. On the male dwarf? UGH!!!

I can only hope we'll eventually will be able to change skins.. I really really like that MBP's effect on my strength-based ranger...


more than 75% of the player base hates ranged combat, and 10% more don't like it.

Most of us liked ranged combat when it was 100% better than melee combat =)


not so sure about that. people dont hate it, they just dont prefer that play style. and idk why people dont like it. ranged combat can do tons of damage (sure maybe not as much as a completely twinked maxd tempest build) but still you should see how fast mobs drop when you combine many shot + haste + human versatility damage boost + what ever uber bow you are using XD

People "don't like it", because while you an outdamage a melee for 20 seconds each 2 minutes, you'll go back to doing 1/4th or less of the damage a melee does during the rest 1 minute 40 seconds.

When you consider the average fight against a 2000 hp Orthon lasts 4-7 seconds, unless you're fighting a pit fiend, ranged combat as DPS is junk. You'll keep pace in the first fight and then just use up space dps-wise.

(Although ranged is quite nice as secondary CC or on hit effects (disruption comes to mind). I suspect this is why ranged players are peeved about these armors - they'd be perfect to complement their on-hit debuffing potential - too perfect in fact)


Its because Crippling is a slow effect and Turbine for whatever reason are very cautious about providing any method of kiting mobs around with no risk..

Bingo. And that's why it won't be "fixed" to work on ranged.

I suspect you'll have better luck asking for a crippling shot to be added to deepwood sniper, or just tacked onto the existing abilities that have timers built-in.

[geoffhanna]

Actually there is - black dragon scales...

Except that does not help repeaters or throwers, and does not stack with haste

[barecm]

I am 100% convinced it was supposed to work with ranged, but since ranged combat has been broken since day 1, I don't really expect any love. Just because AFTER the fact, the devs say ... oh yeah, thats the way it supposed to work... Just like Microsoft saying.. oh yeah, that security hole in our software... thats a FEATURE, not a bug.

Just pointing out an observation... so resume flaming.

By the way, the crippling armor is LAME for lvl 16 loot. L A M E.

[adamr09]

People "don't like it", because while you an outdamage a melee for 20 seconds each 2 minutes, you'll go back to doing 1/4th or less of the damage a melee does during the rest 1 minute 40 seconds.

When you consider the average fight against a 2000 hp Orthon lasts 4-7 seconds, unless you're fighting a pit fiend, ranged combat as DPS is junk. You'll keep pace in the first fight and then just use up space dps-wise.

(Although ranged is quite nice as secondary CC or on hit effects (disruption comes to mind). I suspect this is why ranged players are peeved about these armors - they'd be perfect to complement their on-hit debuffing potential - too perfect in fact)






a lot of ppl say this but on my ranger, he is doing tons of damage even when not using many shot. like i said, maybe as not as much as a maxd tempest build but when he does use the many shot combos, it makes up for it. and as for them taking up space... ***? not really sure how they are taking up space considering they are doing either nice stat damage or dps and most of the time NOT getting hit. ya i know they arent doing the best dps in the grp but still doing pretty good without taking up much of the clerics sp.

[barecm]

I can't remember the GM's name, but I did file a report on the armor way back. Ticket # 1495607 on 7/18/08 3:52 pm. The response I got was, and I am paraphrazing, that 'we know the armor is bugged, we are seeing if we can resolve the issue' and my ticket was quickly closed. I followed up with a tell asking if it was going to be fixed soon. I got a tell back saying maybe in the next patch, but to check the boards for updates. So, believe what you want. I will stick with my own theory and say that just can't or won't fix it. Easier to change the description to fit the bug.

[Aranticus]

I can't remember the GM's name, but I did file a report on the armor way back when the raid first came out. Ticket # 1495607 on 7/18/08 3:52 pm. I was lucky enough to have someone give me the armor during the first few days of that raid. The response I got was, and I am paraphrazing, that 'we know the armor is bugged, we are seeing if we can resolve the issue' and my ticket was quickly closed. I followed up with a tell asking if it was going to be fixed soon. I got a tell back saying maybe in the next patch, but to check the boards for updates. So, believe what you want. I will stick with my own theory and say that just can't or won't fix it. Easier to change the description to fit the bug.

screenshot pls

[Selinius]

not so sure about that. people dont hate it, they just dont prefer that play style. and idk why people dont like it. ranged combat can do tons of damage (sure maybe not as much as a completely twinked maxd tempest build) but still you should see how fast mobs drop when you combine many shot + haste + human versatility damage boost + what ever uber bow you are using XD

or if you can get your hands on a WoP bow, throw in a lvl or fighter for the haste boost+many shot+haste= TONS of mobs dead in barely anytime.

but anyways, yes i totally agree that it should work with ranged combat.it would help so much to have mobs be running at you slower so you have more time to kill them before they get to you.


-adamr

Why is it that every time someone tries to defend ranged dps that have to resort to basicly the same argument...BUT with manyshot AND... Yeah, so you are pwning dps for 20-30 seconds, what are you doing the rest of the time? Sorry, but I have ran with more useless ranged toons that scream, "GET HIM OFF ME!!!!!" as they kite said mob 5 miles away from the party while making said mobs red bar move everyonce in a while than ran with a good ranged toon. Or maybe I have ran with a good ranged toon and just didn't notice it because they didn't suck as bad as the ones I am used to running with.

Try and argue with me, but if a majority of the players that don't like "ranged" rangers have had experences like mine then its no wonder that when a "ranged" ranger starts crying about something they get met with a loud cry of "Meh, who cares. Pick up a couple of rapiers and do some real damage"

I imagine that there are a few really good bow users out there. Only problem is they probably only run with close friends are guild groups, so the rest of us get to deal with the bow using gimp noob that can't even spell agro management, let alone understand the concept.

Now do I think ranged combat should be scraped, no. I have a tempest monk that I am leveling up now and when we get our new slot I am going to level a 13 ranger/1rog/2monk. Both toons will be temptest builds, but they will both have bows and know how to use them. It has its uses, but as the way to deal main dps on a toon, not really. Any combat form that the best non-raid wepon for it is ml 6 needs some serious looking at.

[barecm]

screenshot pls

I have a note from my doctor that says I don't need a screen shot.

[Selinius]

a lot of ppl say this but on my ranger, he is doing tons of damage even when not using many shot. like i said, maybe as not as much as a maxd tempest build but when he does use the many shot combos, it makes up for it. and as for them taking up space... ***? not really sure how they are taking up space considering they are doing either nice stat damage or dps and most of the time NOT getting hit. ya i know they arent doing the best dps in the grp but still doing pretty good without taking up much of the clerics sp.

I would rather have a 55 AC monk than an unknown bow ranger in group. At least the monk won't go, "Darn, out of arrows guys. Anyone have any extra?"

[barecm]

screenshot pls


And, I have a note from Epstein's mother...

[Selinius]

I have a note from my doctor that says I don't need a screen shot.

Then we don't believe you. Sorry.

[Aranticus]

And I really don't care... sorry.

if you dun care why are you even here discussing?

[barecm]

Then we don't believe you. Sorry.


And I really don't care... sorry. My post was not meant for anyone but the devs. They can reference my ticket number if needed.

[Turial]

...
Most of us liked ranged combat when it was 100% better than melee combat =)
....

You just dated yourself my friend. Few people remember ranged before the nerf. :)

[Stormanne]

Hell, I remember when the heavy repeaters shot five bolts at a rate that would make a machine gun blush. I remember when everyone and their brother ran with short bows at the very least and Serpent Branch was the "Must Have" weapon of the game...

[Mistinarperadnacles]

a lot of ppl say this but on my ranger, he is doing tons of damage even when not using many shot. like i said, maybe as not as much as a maxd tempest build but when he does use the many shot combos, it makes up for it. and as for them taking up space... ***? not really sure how they are taking up space considering they are doing either nice stat damage or dps and most of the time NOT getting hit. ya i know they arent doing the best dps in the grp but still doing pretty good without taking up much of the clerics sp.

Really? tons of damage?

Even with manyshot on permanantly you won't get anywhere close to the damage any 2 weapon fighter is putting out, let alone a maxed out tempest one.

There are still times and effects where ranged is useful, but as damage dealing or primary combat, its nowhere near.

I wouldn't mind it getting a few boosts, but this aint gonna happen based on the Dev perception that everyone will be ranged specialised and evry single quest will be like old style Redwillow.

[barecm]

if you dun care why are you even here discussing?

Because it is my thread... why are you here?

[manfredshw]

I am 100% convinced it was supposed to work with ranged, but since ranged combat has been broken since day 1, I don't really expect any love. Just because AFTER the fact, the devs say ... oh yeah, thats the way it supposed to work... Just like Microsoft saying.. oh yeah, that security hole in our software... thats a FEATURE, not a bug.

Just pointing out an observation... so resume flaming.

By the way, the crippling armor is LAME for lvl 16 loot. L A M E.


Ｉtotlaly agree with you. It's lame, and for the bp, why destruction can't work on the ranged weapon? This force me to carry a destruction bow with me. And I believe it was turbine forgot to code the effect on ranged weapon, not just "not suppose to work on".

Just like mob ban ranged weapon, great ban bring you extra +4 enhancement bonus to dm and to-hit, but for ranged weapons, there is no +4 dm but melees do have. why?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

And I really don't care... sorry. My post was not meant for anyone but the devs. They can reference my ticket number if needed.

Well considering the devs decide what is "working as intended" and the GMs are sub contractors in a foreign country who barely understand the game half the time...then it really doesn't matter what the GM said anyway.

[Aranticus]

Because it is my thread... why are you here?

before you try to get possessive, do look into the toc, coc again. nothing in these forums or in the game belong to anyone. they are all the possessions of turbine. just by simply starting a thread, esp in a discussion forum doesnt give you anymore right

if you want to claim something, then prove it. simple as that else you get called "bluff" :cool:

[Josh]

Really? tons of damage?

Even with manyshot on permanently you won't get anywhere close to the damage any 2 weapon fighter is putting out, let alone a maxed out tempest one.

There are still times and effects where ranged is useful, but as damage dealing or primary combat, its nowhere near.

I wouldn't mind it getting a few boosts, but this aint gonna happen based on the Dev perception that everyone will be ranged specialized and every single quest will be like old style Redwillow.

If that is the case it would just goes to show how out of touch the developers are with this game. Most of their perceived game imbalances date from over two years ago and would have zero, if any effect on game play. Slowing mobs to kite them? Really? Who cares if they do? Divine Favor going up to +5? Oh noes!! WOTC said we have to change it, but WOTC is fine with blatantly overpowered enhancements like crit rage? Really? Bunk, really. There's no consistency with these clowns. We have to nerf "this" because it's too overpowered, but we'll leave that even though it's blatantly overpowered...***?

The armors should have been designed to work with ALL weapons from the start. Neither effect is a game breaker, and more people (i.e. paying customers) would be satisfied. In fact, ranged combat needs some serious love. This game is so one dimensional anymore it's stupid.

[Turial]

They bother making raid armor because the subset of the population that doesn't care about AC needs useful and functional armor to wear. Part of that is that the armors functionality needs to make up for the lack of protection a character could otherwise obtain.

Crippling, distruction, etc were all good powers to place on armors but the piece meal implementation of the affects was silly at best. Turbine should strive to make decent and good armors for those who aren't going to go the rainment or mithral full plate routes to fill in the gaps otherwise players should only be wearing the full plate or the rainments because nothing else comes close.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

As far as Im concerned the only problem with that raid armour is its horrible, horrible look.

[arcticwolf666]

Sure, the devs say it is working as intended. So, now we have:

Jorgondal's collar. Melee only.
Etherial bracers. Melee only.
VoD(?) gloves. Melee only.
Crippling Chain Shirt. Melee only.

It would be fine it there was something on the other side that did work for ranged only, but there is not.


The dev's had to do something to help the meleers catch up with us casters and quit crying over kill count :p

[Thrudh]

Really? tons of damage?

Even with manyshot on permanantly you won't get anywhere close to the damage any 2 weapon fighter is putting out, let alone a maxed out tempest one.

There are still times and effects where ranged is useful, but as damage dealing or primary combat, its nowhere near.

I wouldn't mind it getting a few boosts, but this aint gonna happen based on the Dev perception that everyone will be ranged specialised and evry single quest will be like old style Redwillow.

You are incorrect.. No melee can outdamage a ranger attacking a favored enemy with manyshot on... even when the ranger is only shooting at one target...

4 shots per, each doing about 40 per... that's 160 BASE damage, not counting crits or effects.

Now, consider a ranger whose has 2-5 bad guys lined up.... Now, he's doing 160 per ON ALL OF THEM... Let's see a melee match that...

And... the whole time... the ranged character is not getting hit....

[Ilundel]

I got 1 phrase for you guys out there "Wounding of puncturing crippling heavy repeater on a 16 lvl ranger with favored enemies" - you think that a crippled mob that takes con damage while being kited by a fast ranger(oh and btw, you can kite 5 - 10 mobs easily) wouldn't be a bit to powerfull? I do. Sure, I would love to have that chain shirt affecting my ranger, but seriously, it would make most of the content way too easy for me on elite.

[Pwesiela]

Really? tons of damage?

Even with manyshot on permanantly you won't get anywhere close to the damage any 2 weapon fighter is putting out, let alone a maxed out tempest one.


Like Trudh said, when multishot is on, there is NO class that can out damage the ranger. Period. I have the other classes. Mwetida (8fighter/8barb) and Dominique (16 barb) simply CANNOT equal the damage I put out while in multishot. Even Dom, with improved crit on any weap (she focuses on piercing, but I've tried it with slashing too) and a str in the high 40s can't equal the damage I put on ONE NON-FAVORED target. Then try comparing when you have multiple targets such as in Twilight Forge, when I can have upwards of 8 ogres lined up in a row. I'm done killing the lot before the sorc lands his first FoD.

A permanent multishot stance would be far more broken than the crit range on a barbarian. I agree that it shouldn't be a stance. I disagree with the cool down.:cool:

I don't know any of the alts in your sig, but trust me, this much I know: Pwes will outdamage any of my alts when she wants to, and I have a lot of alts and experience in this.

Sidenote: Guess I'm one of the 1% of rangers who still uses ranged as primary. But even I tend to switch to dual vorpals when something just has too much hp (orthons...hate those things...).

[Tanka]

The biggest problem with this argument is that Manyshot only lasts 20secs with a 2min cooldown. So for 1:40 you're doing less damage than any melee in the game, even while you're shooting at your FEs.

So, yes, while in Manyshot against FEs with the perfect line of them, you're pumping out tremendous damage. That's an incredibly rare moment, to be sure.

Ranged combat has always needed help. And it will continue to need it until the Devs realize that not everyone will go bow-spec and run around like their head is on fire.

[Tanka]

REAL Rangermers NEVERMER hold a bow. Evermer.
What about Keensly?

Ed: Holy Ninja, Batman! Jumped two posts!

[szalkerous]

before you try to get possessive, do look into the toc, coc again. nothing in these forums or in the game belong to anyone. they are all the possessions of turbine. just by simply starting a thread, esp in a discussion forum doesnt give you anymore right

if you want to claim something, then prove it. simple as that else you get called "bluff" :cool:

Did posting that give you a smug sense of self-worth? I'm just curious as it sure seems to have no other contribution to this thread at all.

[Kargon]

REAL Rangermers NEVERMER hold a bow. Evermer.

[Milolyen]

Different strokes for different folks. Right now the game is mostly about getting content done as fast as possible for which you need 2 things, DPS and Healer. That uber DPS IS going to take dmg and can not make it through the quest without help. A good ranged ranger does not need that healer and can still get the job done. It will be done a bit slower in most cases but it will still get done. My quickest runs on Coal Chamber are still solo with my ranger. Guildies need to get it for flagging or want the ingredients they ask me to run it. They help me take out the first fight for the key then drop to their deaths, I pick up stones and off I go. There is not much out there that I can't solo on my ranger and at the same time I would LOVE to see the average TWF DPS "master" solo even half the stuff I do in the amount of time it takes my "gimped" ranged ranger.

*Edit* back to topic though. Don't know of any ranged char that has a hard time hitting mobs so the destruction it a moot point, then giving every bow you carry the crippling effect would be a HUGE plus because it would make kitting way to easy for 90% of the content. My ranger really would not have a need to group to do most of the content.

Milolyen

P.S. oh and Mistinarperadnacles you almost got me in trouble. Your comment "Even with manyshot on permanantly you won't get anywhere close to the damage any 2 weapon fighter is putting out, let alone a maxed out tempest one." actually made me laugh out loud at work and had a couple people ask what I was laughing about. That has to be the most uninformed comments I have seen on the forums in a LONG time.

[Aranticus]

Did posting that give you a smug sense of self-worth? I'm just curious as it sure seems to have no other contribution to this thread at all.

the basis of the OP's arguement lies in the fact that he "had heard" from a GM saying it is bugged and it is supposed to be applicable to both ranged and melee. this is contradictory to what eladrin (or whichever dev) had posted. i asked for a screenshot and thats all. however, the OP came in on the defensive

i have no meaning to troll this thread. a screenshot would be proof to show the amount of coordination, communication, duplicity within turbine. it would also provide us with an avenue of information

[Blazer]

REAL Rangermers NEVERMER hold a bow. Evermer.

Ahhh, no, not so much. Real rangers know when to use a bow and when not to use a bow. Since we get both combat styles in DDO, we should utilize both, switching between the two when it makes sense.

[SableShadow]

Ahhh, no, not so much. Real rangers know when to use a bow and when not to use a bow. Since we get both combat styles in DDO, we should utilize both, switching between the two when it makes sense.

Completely agree. I'd go so far as to say it's really, *really* handy for even the most hard core melee to have some kind of a ranged weapon, even if they only use it now and again.

[BRINKS]

Ahhh, no, not so much. Real rangers know when to use a bow and when not to use a bow. Since we get both combat styles in DDO, we should utilize both, switching between the two when it makes sense.

Agree 100%. The only downside is the % of which attack mode my ranger uses which is about 95% melee and 5% ranged... which would imply that melee is more usefull at this time against 95% of game content.



Like Trudh said, when multishot is on, there is NO class that can out damage the ranger. Period. I have the other classes. Mwetida (8fighter/8barb) and Dominique (16 barb) simply CANNOT equal the damage I put out while in multishot. Even Dom, with improved crit on any weap (she focuses on piercing, but I've tried it with slashing too) and a str in the high 40s can't equal the damage I put on ONE NON-FAVORED target. Then try comparing when you have multiple targets such as in Twilight Forge, when I can have upwards of 8 ogres lined up in a row. I'm done killing the lot before the sorc lands his first FoD.

A permanent multishot stance would be far more broken than the crit range on a barbarian. I agree that it shouldn't be a stance. I disagree with the cool down.:cool:

I don't know any of the alts in your sig, but trust me, this much I know: Pwes will outdamage any of my alts when she wants to, and I have a lot of alts and experience in this.

Sidenote: Guess I'm one of the 1% of rangers who still uses ranged as primary. But even I tend to switch to dual vorpals when something just has too much hp (orthons...hate those things...).

Disagree. A sorc casts a maximized,empowered firewall and hits just as many mobs as a ranger but for FAR more damage...especially if they crit. (or cone of cold, or...)



Brinks, lvl 16 Ranger Thelanis

[barecm]

How fast any thread involving a ranger in the discussion winds up being a discussion about if people like or dislike ranged combat. The point of the thread is that the armor in the hound should have been fixed. However, due to whatever reasoning, it is not being fixed. Instead, the after the fact explanation of how that is the way it is supposed to work is not sitting right with me and a lot of folks I know in this game. And, on Sarlona, I know a lot of folks....

So, I did not really post this as a discussion about ranged vs melee vs casting... I just think the devs passed on fixing this armor and it is bogus and LAME. Get off your collective butts and do something that people want, not just punt like your doing here.

No one is saying anyone is quiting over it, or whatever words were put in my mouth, but it is just another example of how they just don't do things the right way with this game. So much potential wasted. I am more frustrated than mad, but eventually some other game will not be a WoW clone...

[SableShadow]

/signed

I'm usually melee, but I can't really think of a good reason that items that benefit melee shouldn't benefit ranged as well, such as the Spectral Gloves (tested in GoP, the ghost touch doesn't transfer), Crippling Chain, Breastplate of Destruction, Backstabber's Gloves (maybe these do?), etc.

[vtecfiend99]

I got 1 phrase for you guys out there "Wounding of puncturing crippling heavy repeater on a 16 lvl ranger with favored enemies" - you think that a crippled mob that takes con damage while being kited by a fast ranger(oh and btw, you can kite 5 - 10 mobs easily) wouldn't be a bit to powerfull? I do. Sure, I would love to have that chain shirt affecting my ranger, but seriously, it would make most of the content way too easy for me on elite.

omg....

ok just so everyone knows:

REPEATERS ON RANGERS MAKE BABY JESUS CRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aranticus]

omg....

ok just so everyone knows:

REPEATERS ON RANGERS MAKE BABY JESUS CRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

theres a BARBARIAN in khyber that range :p

[Mistinarperadnacles]

If that is the case it would just goes to show how out of touch the developers are with this game. Most of their perceived game imbalances date from over two years ago and would have zero, if any effect on game play. Slowing mobs to kite them? Really? Who cares if they do? Divine Favor going up to +5? Oh noes!! WOTC said we have to change it, but WOTC is fine with blatantly overpowered enhancements like crit rage? Really? Bunk, really. There's no consistency with these clowns. We have to nerf "this" because it's too overpowered, but we'll leave that even though it's blatantly overpowered...***?

The armors should have been designed to work with ALL weapons from the start. Neither effect is a game breaker, and more people (i.e. paying customers) would be satisfied. In fact, ranged combat needs some serious love. This game is so one dimensional anymore it's stupid.

Agreed... though I still reckon theres a Post-It somewhere in the Turbine office that mentions something about the "Players must face risk" mantra and a picture of a bow with a big red line through it.

Also agreed that whilst unpopular, there are some things in the game that need a few moments alone in a dark room with the nerf bat.


Like Trudh said, when multishot is on, there is NO class that can out damage the ranger. Period. I have the other classes. Mwetida (8fighter/8barb) and Dominique (16 barb) simply CANNOT equal the damage I put out while in multishot. Even Dom, with improved crit on any weap (she focuses on piercing, but I've tried it with slashing too) and a str in the high 40s can't equal the damage I put on ONE NON-FAVORED target. Then try comparing when you have multiple targets such as in Twilight Forge, when I can have upwards of 8 ogres lined up in a row. I'm done killing the lot before the sorc lands his first FoD.

A permanent multishot stance would be far more broken than the crit range on a barbarian. I agree that it shouldn't be a stance. I disagree with the cool down.

I don't know any of the alts in your sig, but trust me, this much I know: Pwes will outdamage any of my alts when she wants to, and I have a lot of alts and experience in this.

Sidenote: Guess I'm one of the 1% of rangers who still uses ranged as primary. But even I tend to switch to dual vorpals when something just has too much hp (orthons...hate those things...).

Well, not to get into a he said, she said argument with you. I agree that you can put out some damage with a bow. But even my 2WF using bastard swords (a comparatively weak dual wielding option vs. khopesh or rapier) will categorically outdamage any bow output in the same period of time. The bow user will occasionally equal total outputs in the rare occasions they can line up more than 4 mobs to Improve Precise Shot.

I do like that you're managing to keep up and be viable as a primary ranged user. I'd love a proper Deepwood Sniper myself.




(stolen from Turial here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1877201#post1877201 )


Reason that I use blunt weapons is because the damage is fairly standard to that of ranged weapons.

Two Warhammers (tempest)
4.5 damage + 5 from enhancement = 9.5
x3 critical x 9.5 = 28.5 critical hit
Crit chance 10% with IC
Over 2 min 365 Attacks (329 normal, 36 critical)
Damage = 4151 ~35 DPS

Two Warhammers
4.5 damage + 5 from enhancement = 9.5
x3 critical x 9.5 = 28.5 critical hit
Crit chance 10% with IC
Over 2 min 332 Attacks (299 normal, 33 critical)
Damage = 3781 ~32 DPS

Longbow
4.5 damage + 5 from enhancement = 9.5
x3 critical x 9.5 = 28.5 critical hit
Crit chance 10% with IC
Over 2 min 159 attacks with manyshot (144 normal, 15 critical)
Damage = 1795.5 ~14 DPS
Over 2 min 106 attacks without manyshot (96 normal, 10 critical)
Damage = 1197 ~10 DPS

The above doesn't take into accoutn all the procs and effects you could have, but as either user could have those - and the dual wielder gets twice as many, it only widens the disparity.

That's before you take into account that good khopeshes or rapiers are superior to the bestest bows in the game. Let alone Tier 3 greensteel melee vs. bow.

[Turial]

omg....

ok just so everyone knows:

REPEATERS ON RANGERS MAKE BABY JESUS CRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah but repeaters are the only non-capped weapons at the moment....except maybe hands which I have yet to spade out fully.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Yeah but repeaters are the only non-capped weapons at the moment....except maybe hands which I have yet to spade out fully.

what the heck is a non capped weapon?

[Aerilyn]

There is a 16 Ranger in our guild that goes between his Bow(Tier 3, Lightning Strike) for Many Shot and Repeaters (Tier 3 of the same) for nonmany shot times and he can out DPS any other ranger who is purely a ranged type and never takes much damage that he can't deal with himself. While I know Baby Jesus is crying you should run with this guy before you pass judgement.

Bergeyon, Officer of Ordos Draconum, Argo Server

[Turial]

what the heck is a non capped weapon?

For the last 3 increases in BAB every weapon, other then repeaters and crossbows, has reached their maximum number of attacks and stopped there. Repeaters and crossbows have continued to incease their number of attacks at each +BAB without fail, melee as many know actually went down in attacks at the latest BAB increase. Thus crossbow and repeater attack rate is currently not capped and may still increase. Bows on the other hand have been capped in number of attacks for the past 3 +BAB increases.