Divine Might / Divine Shield

[swordinstone]

Hello,

First off, let me apologize for this thread if this has been discussed already, i did my best to search for the topic, but got the phone book and didn't find the info I was looking for...

I recently started playing DDO, and I'm liking it a lot. I used to play a lot of NWNs (1) online, and DDO is seeming like a great replacement. I noticed a few things that are different about this, and one of them is the lack of Divine Might / Shield for pallys. I'm not all that familiar with the newer pen and paper versions of DnD, so I'm not really certain if they were something that was made for NWNs or not.

I'm missing the lvl 1 spell Bless Weapon also.

Anyway, is there any talk of it coming in one of the new mods? I had a few builds that used it... thanks!

[Alcides]

Divine Might will be released as a new Enhancement for high level, high charisma paladins in Module 8. Unfortunately, you need to have a 14 base charisma to get Tier 1 of the enhancement. Instead of just making it cost 4 points and adding full charisma bonus to damage.

Divine Shield is a sorely needed enhancement for the S&B paladins that really could use an AC boost to get back on par with the TWF builds that are running around with 80+ AC.

[Dexxaan]

Divine Might will be released as a new Enhancement for high level, high charisma paladins in Module 8. Unfortunately, you need to have a 14 base charisma to get Tier 1 of the enhancement. Instead of just making it cost 4 points and adding full charisma bonus to damage.

Divine Shield is a sorely needed enhancement for the S&B paladins that really could use an AC boost to get back on par with the TWF builds that are running around with 80+ AC.


What he said.

You´ll have to Gimp STR / CON / INT (Skill points) to be able to take advantage of the Mid-Zone Enhancement line of Divine Might.

As it has been explained so far, it´s almost an Action Point Paid trade-off with STR and Starting with a 16 CHA, getting a +2 Tome to achieve the 3rd tier of 4 (and paying AP´s thru the nose to get there) is just not (IMO) worth it.

sorry for the bad news, but hey it could be a marketing strategy so that when they actually present Divine might with more reasonable/attainable standards.... fewer will complain.?

[Alcides]

I'm going to have to get a +3 charisma tome to get tier 2 of this thing. I think they should have started with a 12 base charisma and worked up from there. 20 Str paladins just aren't very effective DPS. They really need to improve how fast Divine Righteousness I, and this will activate so that it doesn't cost time to pop it on...Those few seconds are often enough to lose aggro and have a caster die. They also need to up the duration... To me it's insulting to offer this as is, when the Divine Might Feat requires just power attack. Give us the feat or make it cost 4 AP sheesh.

[Dexxaan]

Paladins are among the Top Clickapalooza type classes.

Just think about this routine: Doors gonna pop open in 3 secs (assuming u have that much warning)......

* Angelskin * Divine Faith * Combat Expertise * Fighter Attack Speed Boost, Then jump in and Smite - Divine Sacrifice every 3 sec´s

Many times Mobs are dead before you reset CE ´cause some punk decided to pop the door a bit sooner....and out goes your fun and usually a large amount of unnecesary Caster-Cleric mana.

Suggestion: Please make DFavor duration proportional to Paladin level; and any new features like Divine Might and Zeal....also consider their duration or it´s just another addition to the current clickathon. :D

[Mhykke]

Paladins are among the Top Clickapalooza type classes.

Just think about this routine: Doors gonna pop open in 3 secs (assuming u have that much warning)......

* Angelskin * Divine Faith * Combat Expertise * Fighter Attack Speed Boost, Then jump in and Smite - Divine Sacrifice every 3 sec´s

Many times Mobs are dead before you reset CE ´cause some punk decided to pop the door a bit sooner....and out goes your fun and usually a large amount of unnecesary Caster-Cleric mana.

Suggestion: Please make DFavor duration proportional to Paladin level; and any new features like Divine Might and Zeal....also consider their duration or it´s just another addition to the current clickathon. :D

That's the reason why I just swapped out for extend. Doing all that every minute or so is absurd. Had to try and buy more time with extend, and it sucks.

[swordinstone]

thx for the heads up guys...

my current build is based around charisma for the most part... I did indeed sacrifice INT and CON, but still have the 14 WIS and 14 STR. Its a stretch with only 28 points, but I wanted to see how it would play out, so far I'm happy with it for the most part. My saves are very high for my level and I can more than completely heal myself (or others my level) with lay on hands... I'm hoping the high CHA in my build will make me a strong smiter in the end game also... I've hit a couple times with smite for 35 - 55 dmg with a bastard sword... (all this was at lvl 2)

On a couple of the servers in NWNs, ppl were getting crazy high AC with dex builds, also in that game, every 5 points u spent in tumble increased your AC by 1... some of the most boring fights were between ppl with AC so high I couldn't touch them with anything but a roll of 20, and my dwarven defender who they could hit, but with all my DR and resistances they couldn't hurt me on anything but a Critical hit, and I would usually regen the dmg before they hit me again... Anyway, this is getting off topic, but thought I would share, :D

[Freeman]

Until the final release, we don't know if the numbers we saw for Divine Might are going to be the actual numbers used for the enhancement. Every single aspect of the Zeal spell was changed after they initially posted the information, so let's hope they make some modifications to Divine Might as well. After all, they might want more than 1-2 paladins per server to be able to take the higher enhancements.

[Alcides]

I think the best way the could implement divine might would be close to as follows. It keeps it out of the hands of splash builds, get's around having to have a hefty base charisma, and increases in potency at roughly the same rate the original enhancement.

Divine Might I
Cost: 1 AP
Requires: Power Attack, Paladin Level 4
Duration: 6 Seconds/Paladin Level
Description: Using this ability expends one turn undead attempts. While this ability is active the paladin gains the lesser of 2 or the paladin's charisma bonus to damage with melee and ranged attacks.

Divine Might II
Cost: 2 AP
Requires: Divine Might I, Paladin Level 8
Duration: 6 Seconds/Paladin Level
Description: Using this ability expends one turn undead attempts. While this ability is active the paladin gains the lesser of 4 or the paladin's charisma bonus to damage with melee and ranged attacks.

Divine Might III
Cost: 3 AP
Requires: Divine Might II, Paladin Level 12
Duration: 6 Seconds/Paladin Level
Description: Using this ability expends one turn undead attempts. While this ability is active the paladin gains the lesser of 6 or the paladin's charisma bonus to damage with melee and ranged attacks.

Divine Might IV
Cost: 4 AP
Requires: Divine Might III, Paladin Level 16
Duration: 6 Seconds/Paladin Level
Description: Using this ability expends one turn undead attempts. While this ability is active the paladin gains the lesser of 8 or the paladin's charisma bonus to damage with melee and ranged attacks.

Divine Might V
Cost: 5 AP
Requires: Divine Might IV, Paladin Level 20
Duration: 6 Seconds/Paladin Level
Description: Using this ability expends one turn undead attempts. While this ability is active the paladin gains the lesser of 10 or the paladin's charisma bonus to damage with melee and ranged attacks.

[sephiroth1084]

Honestly, I wish they had just made it a feat, despite the precedent set for Divine feats to be turned into enhancements.

Even if not a feat, I think this should be a single enhancement (not tiered), with Power Attack, and maybe a paladin level of 4, 6 or 8 as its only prereqs., for 2 or 4 AP, that adds your Cha to damage for something like (Cha modifier x level) seconds. As:

Divine Might
Cost: 2 AP
Requires: Paladin level 4, Power Attack
Duration: Cha seconds/level
Description: Spend a turn undead attempt to activate this to add your Cha modifier to your melee damage (unnamed bonus that stacks with everything) for the duration.

The Cha requirement is hidden in the mechanics, since a character with a low Cha gets very little benefit, since the damage, number of uses and duration will be low, while those with a high Cha will gain some tangible benefit. Then, if some characters want to go the heavier Cha route, they will have an incentive to do so, since it will mean more damage and a longer duration.

If there are concerns with EVERY paladin picking this up (heaven forbid, because, you know, EVERY barbarian doesn't grab Crit Rage), make it cost 4 AP so it becomes a real decision.

[Alcides]

Honestly, I wish they had just made it a feat, despite the precedent set for Divine feats to be turned into enhancements.
...
If there are concerns with EVERY paladin picking this up (heaven forbid, because, you know, EVERY barbarian doesn't grab Crit Rage), make it cost 4 AP so it becomes a real decision.

This is an extremely powerful ability they are giving to paladins. With a 1H weapon you get 5 Extra damage from Power attack. Saying you gain another 5-10 damage for 2AP and a turn undead attempt is really unbalanced. The scaling saves a feat and means that if you really want this ability to do serious extra damage you have to spec for it. It shouldn't just be a cookie-cutter paladin enhancement. The only problem I have with the current description of this ability is that it requires so much base charisma. And considering you get 4 AP a level and get a feat every 3 levels the cost of an enhancement that mimics a powerful feat should be roughly 12 AP. And adding this as a feat would open the doors for an "Improved Divine Might" line of enhancements :P

[sephiroth1084]

This is an extremely powerful ability they are giving to paladins. With a 1H weapon you get 5 Extra damage from Power attack. Saying you gain another 5-10 damage for 2AP and a turn undead attempt is really unbalanced. The scaling saves a feat and means that if you really want this ability to do serious extra damage you have to spec for it. It shouldn't just be a cookie-cutter paladin enhancement. The only problem I have with the current description of this ability is that it requires so much base charisma. And considering you get 4 AP a level and get a feat every 3 levels the cost of an enhancement that mimics a powerful feat should be roughly 12 AP. And adding this as a feat would open the doors for an "Improved Divine Might" line of enhancements :P

The problems with the current info on this enhancement line, though, are:

-too high a Cha requirement for it to be widely available.
-of very limited use until one gets a few tiers, which goes back to the above
-paladins are already starved for AP

Adding a line that strains the paladin's AP further when the need/desire is to give pallies some "love" seems counterproductive to me. Especially when it also requires sacrificing stats across the board just to meet the requirements.

[MysticRhythms]

What I want to know is ... will clerics get access to Divine Might and Divine Shield.

they do in PnP and it would be really nice for those of us who have Charisma-based clerics.

[Josh]

I'm going to have to get a +3 charisma tome to get tier 2 of this thing. I think they should have started with a 12 base charisma and worked up from there. 20 Str paladins just aren't very effective DPS. They really need to improve how fast Divine Righteousness I, and this will activate so that it doesn't cost time to pop it on...Those few seconds are often enough to lose aggro and have a caster die. They also need to up the duration... To me it's insulting to offer this as is, when the Divine Might Feat requires just power attack. Give us the feat or make it cost 4 AP sheesh.

Funny, my paladin had a 26 str and a 26 chr. Sorry you min-maxed.

[Alcides]

Funny, my paladin had a 26 str and a 26 chr. Sorry you min-maxed.

Actually, I spread my stat points out so that I could make a dwarf intimitank as follows
14/12/16/12/14/12 currently at 24/18/24/13/22/24 with items. As is he can only afford to get tier 1 of Divine Might since it had a listed base Charisma of 14 without enhancements or items. There was no min-maxing involved at all. I'm sure there are paladins out there that have a base charisma of 20 to get the best tier of this enhancement, but I would speculate a majority of paladins have a base of 14 or 16 charisma, 18 with a drow.

[QuantumFX]

This is an extremely powerful ability they are giving to paladins. With a 1H weapon you get 5 Extra damage from Power attack. Saying you gain another 5-10 damage for 2AP and a turn undead attempt is really unbalanced. The scaling saves a feat and means that if you really want this ability to do serious extra damage you have to spec for it. It shouldn't just be a cookie-cutter paladin enhancement. The only problem I have with the current description of this ability is that it requires so much base charisma. And considering you get 4 AP a level and get a feat every 3 levels the cost of an enhancement that mimics a powerful feat should be roughly 12 AP. And adding this as a feat would open the doors for an "Improved Divine Might" line of enhancements :P

Actually you're talking 3 feats to make it effective. Power Attack to open it up, Divine Power to get the ability and Extra Turning to make it useful. For a pure paladin that's 50% of his feats. Also if Turbine got off their lazy butts and added Divine Shield, Divine Vigor and Sacred Vengeance a paladin would be burning out their storehouse of power even quicker.

[Alcides]

Actually you're talking 3 feats to make it effective. Power Attack to open it up, Divine Power to get the ability and Extra Turning to make it useful. For a pure paladin that's 50% of his feats. Also if Turbine got off their lazy butts and added Divine Shield, Divine Vigor and Sacred Vengeance a paladin would be burning out their storehouse of power even quicker.

Well they still haven't posted duration for Divine Might so that will really be the determining factor as to how many "turn attempts" a paladin should have to use the ability. As far as AP cost for it. I don't have a right answer. 4 AP is probably a good number if it's made into a single enhancement instead of them butchering it and making it a tiered enhancement. I think Divine Shield would do a lot to close the AC gap paladin's have. Sacred Vitality would also be a good one to add for killing beholders :P

[Josh]

Actually, I spread my stat points out so that I could make a dwarf intimitank as follows
14/12/16/12/14/12 currently at 24/18/24/13/22/24 with items. As is he can only afford to get tier 1 of Divine Might since it had a listed base Charisma of 14 without enhancements or items. There was no min-maxing involved at all. I'm sure there are paladins out there that have a base charisma of 20 to get the best tier of this enhancement, but I would speculate a majority of paladins have a base of 14 or 16 charisma, 18 with a drow.

You're listing a 24 for Chr. How are you going from a 12 base to 24? An item is +6. Is the rest from enhancements? Correct me if I'm wrong, but tomes also count towards the base stat. Have you used any tomes? No offense, but you chose to be a dwarf for the CON and the armor / shield mastery. Dwarves take a CHR penalty at creation. If you weren't a dwarf you'd have a 14 base right? Choices.

I think there's a lot more out there that can hit the high base CHR numbers than most people are saying. I have no sympathy for those who built a paladin with base 8 chr and / or 8 wis so that they could be "ubah" and have 30 str, 24 con, and 22 dex (It doesn't look like you did that with your build Al, and I commend you for that). They don't want a paladin; they want a fighter with the benefits of a paladin. My paladin also has a 22 wis. How many people are going to tell me that is a "waste"? My stats: (the base numbers might be off but to the best of my knowledge these are correct)

Str 26 (18)
Dex 18 (13)
Con 18 (12)
Wis 22 (16)
Int 13 (13)
Chr 26 (18)

I'm a 28 pt human. I built this character way back in May 2006 (my second one). She's based off of a PnP character I had. How many people are going to see those stats and say "gimp"?

I have a 18 base Chr. While I agree that a base 20 Chr is too much for the highest tier, I have absolutely no issues with other, lower chr requirements. If there's 4 tiers, say 12, 14 16 18. I think that's PLENTY fair enough. Why should the min-maxers who tanked what are key traditional paladin stats reap the benefits alongside those who constructed what I consider a true paladin? What sacrifices have they made? They've made their choice with their build. Look at what Dexxan said:

"You´ll have to Gimp STR / CON / INT (Skill points) to be able to take advantage of the Mid-Zone Enhancement line of Divine Might."

"Powergamers" only care about those stats. They choose to use traditional paladin stats as dump stats in favor of building a fighter masquerading as a paladin. Now, they suffer the consequences of that decision. They can always re-roll if they don't like it.

I'm not trying to insult anyone here. I simply think that those who chose to build characters that tanked traditional stats in favor of others shouldn't reap the same benefits as those that didn't. Balance is give and take. I get this, I have to give up that.

[Alcides]

You're listing a 24 for Chr. How are you going from a 12 base to 24? An item is +6. Is the rest from enhancements? Correct me if I'm wrong, but tomes also count towards the base stat. Have you used any tomes? No offense, but you chose to be a dwarf for the CON and the armor / shield mastery. Dwarves take a CHR penalty at creation. If you weren't a dwarf you'd have a 14 base right? Choices.

I think there's a lot more out there that can hit the high base CHR numbers than most people are saying. I have no sympathy for those who built a paladin with base 8 chr and / or 8 wis so that they could be "ubah" and have 30 str, 24 con, and 22 dex (It doesn't look like you did that with your build Al, and I commend you for that). They don't want a paladin; they want a fighter with the benefits of a paladin. My paladin also has a 22 wis. How many people are going to tell me that is a "waste"? My stats: (the base numbers might be off but to the best of my knowledge these are correct)

Str 26 (18)
Dex 18 (13)
Con 18 (12)
Wis 22 (16)
Int 13 (13)
Chr 26 (18)

I'm a 28 pt human. I built this character way back in May 2006 (my second one). She's based off of a PnP character I had. How many people are going to see those stats and say "gimp"?

I have a 18 base Chr. While I agree that a base 20 Chr is too much for the highest tier, I have absolutely no issues with other, lower chr requirements. If there's 4 tiers, say 12, 14 16 18. I think that's PLENTY fair enough. Why should the min-maxers who tanked what are key traditional paladin stats reap the benefits alongside those who constructed what I consider a true paladin? What sacrifices have they made? They've made their choice with their build. Look at what Dexxan said:

"You´ll have to Gimp STR / CON / INT (Skill points) to be able to take advantage of the Mid-Zone Enhancement line of Divine Might."

"Powergamers" only care about those stats. They choose to use traditional paladin stats as dump stats in favor of building a fighter masquerading as a paladin. Now, they suffer the consequences of that decision. They can always re-roll if they don't like it.

I'm not trying to insult anyone here. I simply think that those who chose to build characters that tanked traditional stats in favor of others shouldn't reap the same benefits as those that didn't. Balance is give and take. I get this, I have to give up that.

Here's the stats as is currently, keep in mind this is a 32 pt build, 1 fighter/15 paladin The original intent of the Wisdom was to keep an equipment slot free if I absolutely had to. It also saves me from having to take Force of Personality as a feat. Yeah that strength is a little low, but trust me with a 54 intimidate this guy rocks.

Str 24 = 14 + 3 Level + 1 Book + 6 Item
Dex 18 = 12 + 1 Book + 5 Item
Con 24 = 16 + 2 Book + 6 Item
Int 13 = 12 + 1 Book
Wis 22 = 14 + 2 Book + 6 Item
Cha 24 = 12 + 1 Level + 2 Book + 3 Enhancement + 6 Item

Sorry I was misstating "base charisma" for the feat. What I should have said was "base + inherent charisma" The only prerequisite for the Divine Might Feat is Power Attack. It is ludicrous for it to be implemented with a high "base + inherent charisma" charisma requirement where there is no such requirement for the feat. X Paladin/Cleric levels and Power Attack as a feat should be sufficient for prerequisites for each tier of the feat. And also like I said each tier should grant a bonus to damage that is the minimum of the bonus damage the tier would grant or the paladin's charisma bonus.

[Freeman]

I'm not trying to insult anyone here. I simply think that those who chose to build characters that tanked traditional stats in favor of others shouldn't reap the same benefits as those that didn't. Balance is give and take. I get this, I have to give up that.

You're basically making the same argument. My only issues with the Charisma requirements are first, they are too high(Which you agree with), and second, that there's no way for existing paladins to adjust their characters if they wanted to take them. We can't respec ability points, starting stats, and tomes can only take you so far. I started with a 14 Charisma on my Dwarven paladin, so I don't think you can claim I used it as a dump stat. His ability scores are fairly well spread out, and he's far from min/maxed(Can you even really do that on a paladin without hurting the character?). Yet at the numbers we have now, I'd only be able to qualify for the second tier, and that's if I use a +2 Charisma tome. No other enhancement has a direct stat requirement. I'd have no problem if a paladin's Charisma was used to calculate damage, duration, or any of the effects. I just don't understand why the stat requirement was added, particularly when it is not related to the PnP requirements in any way.

[SteeleTrueheart]

I don't mind the Charisma requirements. It is essentially a way of boosting Cha focused paladins. A common mistake for first time paladin creators of the past.

My first paladin will be able to reach 20 if he uses a +2 tome. My second will be able to hit 18 if he uses a +3 tome. Charisma is an important stat for paladins and if you can not reach the Cha scores listed as pre reqs then your character is probably built better and is able to hit a higher Str and do more consistant damage anyway.

[sephiroth1084]

I don't mind the Charisma requirements. It is essentially a way of boosting Cha focused paladins. A common mistake for first time paladin creators of the past.

My first paladin will be able to reach 20 if he uses a +2 tome. My second will be able to hit 18 if he uses a +3 tome. Charisma is an important stat for paladins and if you can not reach the Cha scores listed as pre reqs then your character is probably built better and is able to hit a higher Str and do more consistant damage anyway.

If they were to give paladins as many options to make use of a high Cha as in PnP, then I could get behind this, but they haven't and boosting Cha doesn't make a lot of sense and has some significant downsides.

[swordinstone]

What I want to know is ... will clerics get access to Divine Might and Divine Shield.

they do in PnP and it would be really nice for those of us who have Charisma-based clerics.

yeah, in NWNs, the pre-reqs were power attack & turn undead, so that opened it up to cleric and blackguards.

In NWNs I was able to max out my CHA and really make a strong pure pally with it. I also had a couple builds that used CHA as a support stat. One of which was fighter / weapon master (TWF-rapier) / blackguard (or pally)... with keen rapiers and everything maxed out my crit range was 10-20 & I was adding lots of extra damage from sneak attacks (only if blackguard) and divine damage.

Played in the catacombs a bit today, my high CHA was an asset there, we faced an undead boss that looked like it was going to give us a lot of trouble, but I was able to put it down with 1 lay on hands and 1 smite... over before it even started :D

[Alcides]

I'm sorry but there's no reason that a feat that has 13 Strength, Power Attack, Ability to Turn undead as prerequisites should have a Charisma requirement. If you have a higher charisma you will benefit more from this enhancement than if you had a lower charisma. But there's not reason to exclude Strength based paladins just because they went strength based. I do feel that if this is implemented in a tiered approach that the higher tiers should be accessible only by high level paladins or clerics.

[MysticRhythms]

yeah, in NWNs, the pre-reqs were power attack & turn undead, so that opened it up to cleric and blackguards.

Oh I know the requirements in PnP. I actually built both of my clerics with Charisma in mind hoping they'd start including more "Divine ____" feats/enhancemnts that I could take advantage of.

What I was wondering if anyone had read that the Turbine version of Divine Might/Shield would be offered to Clerics as well as Paladins. Since it's an enhancement line rather than a feat line, I'm worried that they'll add it, but ONLY to Paladins and that would make me sad.

[MysticRhythms]

I'm sorry but there's no reason that a feat that has 13 Strength, Power Attack, Ability to Turn undead as prerequisites should have a Charisma requirement. If you have a higher charisma you will benefit more from this enhancement than if you had a lower charisma. But there's not reason to exclude Strength based paladins just because they went strength based. I do feel that if this is implemented in a tiered approach that the higher tiers should be accessible only by high level paladins or clerics.

Um ... in PnP the bonuses Divine Might/Shield offer are based off Charisma. If the stat weren't a defacto "prerequisite," a purely Strength-Based Paladin wouldn't want Divine Might or Divien Shield anyway.

[Eladrin]

What I was wondering if anyone had read that the Turbine version of Divine Might/Shield would be offered to Clerics as well as Paladins. Since it's an enhancement line rather than a feat line, I'm worried that they'll add it, but ONLY to Paladins and that would make me sad.
Ranks of Divine Might will be available to both Clerics and Paladins at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20.

[MysticRhythms]

Ranks of Divine Might will be available to both Clerics and Paladins at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20.

In a word ... SWEET.

And thank you for taking the time to reply. I can now have both of my Human Cleric builds uncross their fingers.

[Freeman]

Um ... in PnP the bonuses Divine Might/Shield offer are based off Charisma. If the stat weren't a defacto "prerequisite," a purely Strength-Based Paladin wouldn't want DIvien Might or Divien Shield anyway.

And I'd have no problem with the bonuses in DDO being based off of Charisma either. That way, the player can decide if it is worth it to take the enhancement, just like a player in PnP that meets the requirements can determine if it is worth it for his character. Wouldn't that be a better approach than just setting arbitrarily high requirements?

[slumbering_dragon]

what is divine might and divine sheild, i dont think its the same thing i am thinking of becuse i'm confused about this post.

[MysticRhythms]

And I'd have no problem with the bonuses in DDO being based off of Charisma either. That way, the player can decide if it is worth it to take the enhancement, just like a player in PnP that meets the requirements can determine if it is worth it for his character. Wouldn't that be a better approach than just setting arbitrarily high requirements?

Do we even know wha the requirements are?

Personally, I would think that the enhancements would be a waste for anything less than a 16 Charisma anyway.

[GhostNull]

Do we even know wha the requirements are?

Personally, I would think that the enhancements would be a waste for anything less than a 16 Charisma anyway.

Quote from Eladrin:



Currently it's implemented as "Expend a turn attempt, gain a +2/+4/+6/+8 Sacred bonus to damage for one minute. Requires 14/16/18/20 (base + inherent) Charisma." It's possible that we'll change the duration to scale by Cleric/Paladin level, or alter some of the other specifics during testing.

Hopefully the Devs will lower the CHA requirements and extend the duration before it goes live.

[Alcides]

Um ... in PnP the bonuses Divine Might/Shield offer are based off Charisma. If the stat weren't a defacto "prerequisite," a purely Strength-Based Paladin wouldn't want Divine Might or Divien Shield anyway.

Most str based paladins will have a positive charisma bonus with items, books and enhancements, and therefore can benefit from these enhancements. If your charisma is 20 total that's an extra 5 damage which isn't exactly easy to come by on a paladin.

[swordinstone]

what is divine might and divine sheild, i dont think its the same thing i am thinking of becuse i'm confused about this post.

divine might = activate to add your charisma modifier in damage to melee attacks (divine damage)

divine shield = activate to add your charisma modifier to your AC (dodge bonus)

both had a durations based off the charisma modifier also

[Solmage]

Hopefully the Devs will lower the CHA requirements and extend the duration before it goes live.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like the minimum base cha requirement. I just hope your total modified charisma comes into play somehow - either as additional damage, or to boost the duration.

I agree that we have more than enough 1 minute duration things. (heck having a single one that takes you out of CE is bad enough)

I'm curios though, whether devs aren't afraid they are unleashing CoDzilla's by giving DM to clerics, and very likely, druids?

[GhostNull]

Here's a different suggestion:

Current implemention isn't even a shadow of the PnP version, my suggestion is to change the enhancement to actually use the Paladin's CHA modifier for damage instead of being just a prerequisite.

Divine Might I
Prerequisites: Paladin 5, Power Attack
Duration: Base 24 seconds + 6 seconds per Paladin/Cleric Level
Allows up to a maximum of +4 Sacred bonus to damage where bonus = CHA+ modifier.

Divine Might II
Prerequisites: Paladin 10, Power Attack
Duration: Base 24 seconds + 6 seconds per Paladin/Cleric Level
Allows up to a maximum of +6 Sacred bonus to damage where bonus = CHA+ modifier.

Divine Might III
Prerequisites: Paladin 15, Power Attack
Duration: Base 24 seconds + 6 seconds per Paladin/Cleric Level
Allows up to a maximum of +8 Sacred bonus to damage where bonus = CHA+ modifier.

Divine Might IV
Prerequisites: Paladin 20, Power Attack
Duration: Base 24 seconds + 6 seconds per Paladin/Cleric Level
Allows up to a maximum of +10 Sacred bonus to damage where bonus = CHA+ modifier.

This would put Divine Might far more in-line with the PnP feat version. To add a little balance and more PnP similarity, Power Attack is listed as prerequisite feat.

Even the highest tier enhancment would be usable by just about every Paladin instead of only a small handful with the current version.

[Alcides]

Here's a different suggestion:

Current implemention isn't even a shadow of the PnP version, my suggestion is to change the enhancement to actually use the Paladin's CHA modifier for damage instead of being just a prerequisite.

Divine Might I
Prerequisites: Paladin 5, Power Attack
Duration: Base 24 seconds + 6 seconds per Paladin/Cleric Level
Allows up to a maximum of +4 Sacred bonus to damage where bonus = CHA+ modifier.

Divine Might II
Prerequisites: Paladin 10, Power Attack
Duration: Base 24 seconds + 6 seconds per Paladin/Cleric Level
Allows up to a maximum of +6 Sacred bonus to damage where bonus = CHA+ modifier.

Divine Might III
Prerequisites: Paladin 15, Power Attack
Duration: Base 24 seconds + 6 seconds per Paladin/Cleric Level
Allows up to a maximum of +8 Sacred bonus to damage where bonus = CHA+ modifier.

Divine Might IV
Prerequisites: Paladin 20, Power Attack
Duration: Base 24 seconds + 6 seconds per Paladin/Cleric Level
Allows up to a maximum of +10 Sacred bonus to damage where bonus = CHA+ modifier.

This would put Divine Might far more in-line with the PnP feat version. To add a little balance and more PnP similarity, Power Attack is listed as prerequisite feat.

Even the highest tier enhancment would be usable by just about every Paladin instead of only a small handful with the current version.

I was rethinking this a little bit yesterday. Having the max damage go up to 3/6/9/12 would probably be best for each tier of the enhancement since there will probably paladins out there that can hit a 34 charisma at level 20 :)