No Cleric Love Expected, but Cleric Hate? Ouch.

[unionyes]

Some background.

I have a cleric, she is level 15, and I have never had a problem healing anyone that walks on two legs.

I made a WF barbarian, for a couple of reasons. I wanted to make a WF to see how they ticked, the reading talks a lot about some good class attributes, immunities, that kind of thing. Plus, one of my higher toons pulled a Vorpal Greataxe, Min level 10, rr WF, and I want to use it, not sell it.

As I normally do, I solo through the harbor quests, and joined my first pug for Tangleroot. I don't usually twink much at low levels, with the exception of pots for healing (or repairing, in this case) and a ring of feathers because I just friggin hate ladders.

First group I got in was great. A well formed, well played group, and we mostly cakewalked through Tangleroot. The next group was good too, we did Deleras and it was fun and smooth.

Next two groups were not so good.

The first of the lousy pugs had a cleric who was 11 years old, who told me that he could not heal me because I was a robot. I explained to him that yes, I am warforged, but I have taken healers friend, and his healing will be almost as effective on me as anyone else, plus I have a lot of hitpoints and pots, but don't be afraid to heal me if needed. Unfortunately, before we even started the quest I left group, although that had more to do with 11 years old than it did with not healing me. I thought it was kind of funny that a cleric would figure that he couldn't heal me, but I chalked that up to youth.

The second group was the worst. I won't name any names, but he knows who I mean. We are doing Depths quests, and make it to the first shrine a little whacked up. The cleric heals the rest of the party up, then sits down to shrine....with about one sixth of a blue bar remaining. I cough politely, and he says that I should know he can't heal me because I am a warforged, plus he has three warforged and they all are self healing like all good warforged are. So far, not so bad, but as I explain that I have healers friend and he can heal me if needed in spite of the fact that I have pots, he says that it is just a waste of manna. So I drop group. Call me sensitive, being referred to as a waste of manna sort of set me off.

So, aside from venting a little (or a lot), I have a question for the other WF players out there as well as a statement to anyone playing a cleric out there.

The Statement: I really like my WF Barbarian. Like I do with all my toons, I am going to be as self sufficient as possible, including self healing. If I am being treated any differently than any other race in a pug as far as cleric healing, I am going to either hang back and avoid taking damage (of course, this will mean I am not doing much DPS. Heck, I will grab a bow and hang back and range), or I am going to drop group. I hate dropping group, but I also hate chugging pots like a frat boy at a kegger when I could easily be healed up by the cleric and the only reason I am not being healed is because I am a warforged.

The Question: Is this an endemic thing? Is it hugely common for clerics to refuse to heal warforged, or did I just win the stupid pug lottery that day? My cleric has never had a problem healing warforged, and when on my sorc I tend to drop max empowered repair serious or wand whip when I can on any warforged in the group, but I have always viewed that as a supplement to the cleric rather than as a sole healer.

[Zenako]

Is it standard. Nope.

BUT in the clerics defense, it is possible for WF to take various build choices that do render them virtually unhealable. Since those choices seem to be very attractive on paper, it is not too hard to group up with someone on a new WF who has them. Since there is no way to tell just from appearance what kind you have, the cleric was acting out of ignorance and should have at least cast a few spells to see how well they would work on the bolts.

As an aside, Divine Healing and LoH work to FULL effect on WF and Fleshie in my experience.

[MrCow]

I'd say about 1 out of 8 groups (with people I never met before) will have someone make a comment about divinely healing Warforged when I'm on a character that isn't primarily regarded a caster (the comments range from upbeat humor to downright refusal). The downright refusal end of the spectrum tends to be in the lower levels, fading as you get higher up.

Honestly, though, you find far more arcanes who refuse to repair than clerics who refuse to heal living constructs.

[Freeman]

Another thing to keep in mind is that at lower levels, you have a higher probability of grouping with newer players that may have no clue about things like that. I see a lot more ignorance/stupidity/whatever in groups below level 10 than above, although it can happen at later levels as well. Some will listen when you explain things to them, and I don't have a problem with those people. Others don't listen, don't learn, and are generally still just as bad when they reach higher levels. Sounds like you got some of the second group. Don't worry, you'll see less and less of those as you gain levels.

[NullWolf]

On my lowbie cleric, I'll usually test a CLW on any forged if they aren't healing themselves, or if there isn't a wizzie repairing them.
If my CLW only hits for 2-3 hp (normally heals fleshies for 9-13HP), I'm not likely to continue trying to heal them with a Cure spell. I'll slap a Divine Healing on them since its gonna tick for the same amount over a longer period. If noone else has repair or repair wands they can use on the Forged, I'll step up and do what healing I can. Now, if they've got Healer's Friend or something, I treat them just like everyone else.

Usually when I drop my first CLW or CMW on a wf though they go off about not needing it... then politely thank me when they're almost dead and I hit them with a few... :D

On my Sorc, I carry Repair wands and use them freely (same with Cure wands that I can UMD)... [also carries Reconstruct scrolls that hit 85% of the time right now]. ALL my Wizards (all of the pures are Fleshie) carry the Repair spells and use them when WF are in the party.

[ace_mason]

Seriously is there ANY reason to roll up a WF?

[llevenbaxx]

Is it standard. Nope.

BUT in the clerics defense, it is possible for WF to take various build choices that do render them virtually unhealable. Since those choices seem to be very attractive on paper, it is not too hard to group up with someone on a new WF who has them. Since there is no way to tell just from appearance what kind you have, the cleric was acting out of ignorance and should have at least cast a few spells to see how well they would work on the bolts.

As an aside, Divine Healing and LoH work to FULL effect on WF and Fleshie in my experience.

Various build choices? There is the heavy fort feat and those rare instances a WF activates the Bladesworn Transformation. Two very infrequent occurances in my experience since launch. Plus he told the dude he had healers friend.. he explained he could be healed. While its not the greatest having to heal WF before the heal spell comes into play, it is 99%(1%Hvyfort/Bladswrn:)) of the time very much possible. Aside from the little kid:rolleyes:there wasnt much of an excuse other than they were just being...

I see just about as many WF that can self heal as cant... better than any other pure ftr/barb/w/e. I guess at the end of the day its just pretty **** stupid for someone to say "I dont heal WF", theyre the most "healable" characters in the game...

To OP, you sound kinda like me. Much more tollerent of poor play than poor attitude. Especially the second dude...:mad::D

[unionyes]

Seriously is there ANY reason to roll up a WF?

No fatigue after raging.
Light Fortification comes free.
Immunities that are outstanding, like poison, take forever to drown, that kind of thing.
Con enhancements.
Some cool docents.
Oh yeah, and pulled a Vorpal Great Axe rr WF min level 10 on one of my higher toons.

And, with a good group (and a wf with healers friend making it even sweeter) can be healed with Cure or Repair.

[Laith]

Seriously is there ANY reason to roll up a WF?the way raids are being created these days, the ability to be healed by otherwise bored arcanes is incredibly worthwhile.

[Zenako]

the way raids are being created these days, the ability to be healed by otherwise bored arcanes is incredibly worthwhile.

Might even find a Rogue with Way of the Mechanic who is bored too....:D

[Yaga_Nub]

Seriously is there ANY reason to roll up a WF?

WF are the uber-race. All will bow before the WF before long.

[Rav'n]

As my guilds 'resident Bard' .... I generally Pug as a Bard. WF usually tell me to STOP healing them. :D. I (and I know others feel like I do...) the Party is the Party...Not Us and 'them' (WF being the them...). ESPECIALLY if there's a shrine there...and you're about to shrine! :eek:



*edit -spell check*

[unionyes]

Might even find a Rogue with Way of the Mechanic who is bored too....:D

Lol my rogue is Way of the Mechanic, and I manage to get WF's to hold still for the shoe tying graphic to be finished about 25% of the time. Once they figure out it is a healing thing, they are more than happy to wait a second, but until then they just run away, and it burns a skill boost without any benefit. It may just be the least known WF healing tool out there.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

So, you wanna play a TH Axe weilding WF Barb.....probably with out body armor feats, probably with a lot of HP, and probably jumping into a mob and betting beat on.........and wonder why clerics hate you. :rolleyes:

JK.

Clerics should heal anyone the best they can.
A lot of older clerics used to take one lvl of Sorc and use repair wands on WF.

Many WF take a lvl of Wiz/Sor and take care of themselves.

Few Wizards/Sorcs actually heal WF. But many will if asked, or given wands.

We all have to adapt to whoever we group with.
Everyone should be accetped without the hate.

My suggestion is to give money or wands to clerics when you can afford to....but it's not required.
However, don't expect them to have them to use on you either.

If you are getting beat up a lot, I suggest changing tactics....esp if the cleric is OoM or complaining.

But everyone, especially clerics, should help out the group as best they can.

You can almost tell your in a good party when everyone stops after a battle and you get wand healed by about four different players at the same time....those are the groups I like.

[gfunk]

I have a lowbie cleric (lvl 6 atm) and have experienced some of the WF healing problems. Even at level 6, healing a wf without healers friend on them can take a fair amount of mana/wands. Fortunately, I can afford alot of wands as I have higher level alts, so i just heal everyone (fleshies) and everything (tincans).

If i were a plat-poor newer player, with a low level cleric as my only alt, I would find keeping up with wf healing needs to be a huge economic challenge. Some new players would find it difficult to afford even a cure moderate wand, which can get used up very quickly on some wf's. At low level and/or without good gear, clerics have very little mana.

The quality/composition of the pug group you end up in makes a huge difference on the clerics burdens, some examples of pug groups I have been in so far with varying needs:

1) tangleroot (hard), full group of twinked out players.--> minimal wanding required, no problems healing

2) delaras (hard), full group of newer players with one more experienced wf --> minimal healing on wf (because they were a bit more geared up), the rest of the party had to be carried by heals through the entire quest, consuming way more resources than the average new player would have had available to them.

3) greymoon (normal) partial group with newer WF player who didn't have healers friend --> moderate outlay of healing required due to smaller group and ease of quest. Healing WF took more resources than all of the rest of the party.

I think alot of the wf hate out there is driven by economic frustration. So far at mid way through level 6 i have had only 1 person give me a wand, and 1 person offer me plat for the wands I have consumed. Both times, it was in a solid group of experienced players were I hadn't actually needed to use many resources. If you are a new cleric consistantly playing with challenging groups, you will quickly run out of plat.

Also, I think you are on my server... i believe I've grouped with kornfed before (unless its a different kornfed). If you are around level 6 and looking for a group, send me a tell... i need to level up my cleric and have no issues healing wf with healers friend on them.

[Reverand]

Sorry to hear your WF isn't getting quality care. I play clerics mainly, and WF, even some WF Clerics. I usually base my healing on the group. If we have no arcanes, then yes, i will heal the WF just like anyone else in the party. If that kills all my Sps, well then, so be it. The party can see we have a WF in the group, so they need to self-heal a little themselves, or just avoid the "As long as the cleric has a blue bar, I can do stupid things' logic.

If a groups has 2 arcanes, and me as a cleric. I will let the WF hover about 60% health. (Unless its a WF caster, then I result to emergency healing only) Really, if a party wants a successful quest, then someone might have to cast an occasional repair instead of 5 failed PK attempts on trash mobs.

I know its rare, but I even went so far as to take a level of Sorc for my main cleric, just for WF repair wands at lower levels. At endgame content, it doesn't matter fleshy or rust-bucked. My heal crits for 2000 HP, so.... your bar will be full regardless.

[Lithic]

Dont feel bad, hatred from clerics is the reason new WF get immunities to poison, disease, negative levels and holds instead of just a bonus to saves, with enhancements AND a feat needed to get full immunity. One of the devs said the reason they started with just +4 to saves vs those things was that the major WF Pen and paper disadvantage was role-playing, which they thought wouldnt translate to DDO.

If all clerics thought "yay WF" back in the day, you would be stuck without all the cool immunities :D

[unionyes]

Also, I think you are on my server... i believe I've grouped with kornfed before (unless its a different kornfed). If you are around level 6 and looking for a group, send me a tell... i need to level up my cleric and have no issues healing wf with healers friend on them.

Hi bro,

Yes, we have grouped together before, probably on Kornfed Trailer Dweller. I sure will look you up for a group next time I am on. I have two kids in hockey, one in wrestling, and one in swimming this year, plus music lessons for everyone so I have a feeling that my wife will limit my playtime a little bit during the week but weekends are looking pretty good....until hockey tournaments start up :)

[unionyes]

So, you wanna play a TH Axe weilding WF Barb.....probably with out body armor feats, probably with a lot of HP, and probably jumping into a mob and betting beat on.........and wonder why clerics hate you. :rolleyes:

JK.



It's even worse than that :)

I have healers friend (two levels), lots of hitpoints (helps some that I am not an emergency heal in the middle of a fight), addy body, and have been using an Acid Greataxe of Backstabbing, so almost fighting like I do when running my rogue, be in the fray right behind the fighter to get the extra to hit and damage from the backstab. I even have a shield that I strap on from time to time, costs a lot in DPS but saves a lot in damage to yours truly.

[Saaluta]

Having had a cleric since beta, I made a point of healing everyone in party. WF and "fleshies" alike. So unless the wf says not to heal them, I am always willing to spend that mana to heal them up. And with a max emp heal and sup pot 6 item, I can get most barbs, wf or flesh back to full health from incap. To the clerics who wouldn't heal you, I say for shame and leave it at that. Hope you find more fun in Stormreach, and don't let these few pugs ruin your experience here.

Saal :)

[Taente]

Having had a cleric since beta, I made a point of healing everyone in party. WF and "fleshies" alike.

But in a tight fight, when lom, all things being equal - the WF dies :) That's the way it should be too

T

[Hafeal]

Honestly, though, you find far more arcanes who refuse to repair than clerics who refuse to heal living constructs.

I have also seen this; and the common refrain is that they are not used to watching the bars (which I understand) and the warforged don't want to be asking for heals all the time. You have to find a balance.

With my capped cleric I heal everyone, fleshies and warforged alike. Of course, at 16, a mass heal - you're there you get it. And if I am popping a heal at you, what's the difference between a fleshie and warforged? I am bring both back to full health.

[QuantumFX]

Well, back on topic...

Until a cleric gets the Heal spell keeping a warforged functional is painful to their mana bar. Add in the manasink that is the barbarian class and your 15% healing penalty might as well be 95%. I know that when I was levelling up my cleric I focused more on buffing WFed so they would take less damage and giving all my DV's to the arcane that was willing to heal them.

[unionyes]

Well, back on topic...

Until a cleric gets the Heal spell keeping a warforged functional is painful to their mana bar. Add in the manasink that is the barbarian class and your 15% healing penalty might as well be 95%. I know that when I was levelling up my cleric I focused more on buffing WFed so they would take less damage and giving all my DV's to the arcane that was willing to heal them.

When I rolled a barbarian, race not even considered, I knew that it was going to be potion intensive. Between Barkskin, SOF, and Repair pots, it is kinda costly, but no complaints.

In the OP I wasn't complaining that I wasn't having my red bar babysat. I understand completely that nobody wants to pour an entire blue bar into one toon and not be able to keep the rest of the party up. I also know that in a hairy scrap that if the cleric can only keep one melee standing, it isn't going to be me because it is easier to keep a fleshie alive (until Heal anyhow). I also wasn't expecting to be wand whipped between fights, I have pots for that, and a couple of repair mod wands for friendly caster types.

I was venting about the cleric who told me he was incapable of healing warforged, but mostly about the cleric who topped up the rest of the party, left me at half, and shrined with manna remaining.

Just to get it out there, I have always thought that ALL characters should be self sufficient, as much as possible, and carry curse, heal, fear, restore, and bark pots as needed. Of course it is nice to be healed by a cleric or bard (or wizzie or sorc) when convenient, and although you can chug pots anytime, in a fight a cleric can heal you a lot faster. That doesn't apply just to WF, but to anyone.

[Gunga]

To the OP:

I have two level 16 clerics who can crit heal for way too much. Neither of them have a problem chucking you a heal when you need it. BUT, when my latest cleric was coming up, I had to run with more than one wf barb (not a unique build) who's play style included dying alot. Not much I can do for ya there; I ain't wasting my 500 lowb spell points on a zerging wf barb who doesn't carry pots.

If you want to survive through the low levels and really have a blast with that build:

1. Buy lots of pots.
2. Stop dropping group, and get your a** to 16.

My latest barb cost me, conservatively, about 3000 csw pots to level...and he was human.

Good luck.

[Arianrhod]

The cleric heals the rest of the party up, then sits down to shrine....with about one sixth of a blue bar remaining. I cough politely, and he says that I should know he can't heal me because I am a warforged, plus he has three warforged and they all are self healing like all good warforged are. So far, not so bad, but as I explain that I have healers friend and he can heal me if needed in spite of the fact that I have pots, he says that it is just a waste of manna.

....there is no greater waste of mana than using a shrine without emptying that blue bar first :P
Only excuse not to is if the group won't hang around long enough for heals/buffs

[Inspire]

My Cleric Is A Warforged... Feel Free To Group Wit Him Anytime On Thelanis, You Wont Go Short Of Healing.

Automation the Apostle(16Clr)

[Mr._Dna]

I agree with most of what people are saying about the level disparity. Once you get above level 11, WF vs. Fleshy really makes very little difference, in fact WF are bit more versatile since they CAN be healed by arcanes, although truth be told, I really dislike being given that responsibility on my sorcerer. In the early-mid levels, however, Cleric SP is VERY tight, especially if you are trying quests a bit above your level, elite quests, etc.

All I can suggest is: carry a few repair mod wands and give them to your caster. Ask to be topped off between battles - the cleric will appreciate it and hopefully remind the caster to do at least that much. Be self-sufficient: obviously you already have pots, but WF can't afford to be gimpy in any area. Bottom line, if you want to get healed, make yourself indispensable to the party by being a rockstar. If you still have problems with your health, then play it safe... let someone else grab aggro and see how they do with it. Take one mob at a time and be careful. The quest might go slower and more painfully for everyone, but if you get complaints just tell 'em it's how you have to play since you're not getting any heals.

[BlackSteel]

The higher lvl you get the less cleric hate u'll encounter; harbor and market are never bad b/c its so easy to blow thru that content and potions tend to heal you up very nicely

come lvl 8++ you have too much hp and take too much damage to potion up all the time, and alot of people are still new, having flown thru the previous levels

once a cleric gets Heal tho, theres no reason you shouldnt be getting divine healing as well; you can always sit in on the mass cures, and a Heal will top you off like anyone else; it just takes awhile for new clerics to get used to using 1 large heal instead of a bunch of small cures

you more or less have to tough out the learning curve with repair pots, or have a friendly wand whipper in party; half the classes in the game can whip a wand, and b/c u're a wf you can be healed by everyone but a pure fighter or pure barb

[Hvymetal]

Seriously is there ANY reason to roll up a WF?

Other than the obvios answer that we are the master race..... VOD with a WF main tank anyone?

[Lymnus]

Cleric'll heal you much more easily at high levels. An Empowered Heal will max out even a forgie's HP.

Just low level blues, really.