DX10 and non-vista OS

[hydra_ex]

I was recently having an argument with a family member that DirectX is the software program which actually displays the graphics, while he argued that DirectX was the device driver. To prove my point, I went to wikipedia (where else? :)) There, I found that DX10 is dependant on the graphic driver Windows something or other, available only in vista systems. Now, according to the wikipedia entry, this would mean that the OS I use to play DDO (ie Windows XP), cannot run DX10. This means two problems for me. 1) Will I not be able to play the game anymore because DX10 completly replaces DX9? (unlikely, but still worried) and 2) If mod 8's "big thing" is DX10, will I not be able to draw much value from the module?
If case 2 is correct, this would be horrid planning on turbine's part, because Vista and DDO don't work well together, for one, and because most of the player base uses XP.

Can somone with more knowledge that me confirm or assay my worries please?

[Gennerik]

DirectX is basically a development method for producing graphics (in addition to many other things, but this update primarily focuses on graphics). Windows XP does not support DirectX 10 (limited to DX9.0c), so you won't be able to take part in some of the graphics goodness that is being introduced this next Module. However, you'll still be able to run everything just like you always do in XP with DirectX 9, you just won't get the inproved shadowing and water effects. The main focus in not the move to DirectX 10, this is just the first few things beign done with DirectX 10, so the main goal of the next module will still be playable on your current machine in its current configuration.

It's not really terrible planning on Turbine's part. It's just that they are adding additional effects graphically, and in order to do that, they need to run DX10, which Microsoft only supports with Vista. You'll still be able to play just like you always have, though.

[hydra_ex]

DirectX is basically a development method for producing graphics (in addition to many other things, but this update primarily focuses on graphics). Windows XP does not support DirectX 10 (limited to DX9.0c), so you won't be able to take part in some of the graphics goodness that is being introduced this next Module. However, you'll still be able to run everything just like you always do in XP with DirectX 9, you just won't get the inproved shadowing and water effects. The main focus in not the move to DirectX 10, this is just the first few things beign done with DirectX 10, so the main goal of the next module will still be playable on your current machine in its current configuration.

It's not really terrible planning on Turbine's part. It's just that they are adding additional effects graphically, and in order to do that, they need to run DX10, which Microsoft only supports with Vista. You'll still be able to play just like you always have, though.

Just like I thoght... /sigh... have you even seen the multitude of "DDO dosen't work on vista" posts... its sad... Is there a hack or something ;)

[Drider]

The only thing you are really losing without DX 10 is alot of shadows and water effects. There are a few other little things, but those are the big ones.

[hydra_ex]

The only thing you are really losing without DX 10 is alot of shadows and water effects. There are a few other little things, but those are the big ones.

But thats what I was looking forwards too :(

[Drider]

But thats what I was looking forwards too :(


Well supposedly there are some ways where you can get XP to simulate DX10, these of course are unofficial tweaks, but you are better off just upgrading to Vista at that point. I've ran 64 bit Vista for over a year now and it's been way more stable for me then XP ever was.

[Arkat]

$5.00 says Microsoft will eventually put out DirectX 10 for Windows XP.

[Drider]

$5.00 says Microsoft will eventually put out DirectX 10 for Windows XP.


Highly doubtful since they are already working on DX 11

[lucien123]

I play DDO on Vista Ultimate Home Edition with absolutely no problems. So the issue that some people are having is probably not due to just having the Vista OS, but some other combination of hardware and software (drivers). But what the hell do I know, I thought the Great Pumpkin was real.:o

[Freeman]

If any students are thinking of upgrading to Vista at some point, then you'll want to check out this deal. Starting Sept 8th, anyone with a valid *.edu address will be able to purchase the upgrade to Vista Ultimate for only $65. I don't plan on upgrading quite yet, but I decided I could go ahead and buy it, then upgrade later. You can also get Office on there as well.

http://www.theultimatesteal.com

[United]

http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/
go there its directx 10.1 for xp its still in early stages, so if you install it no dx 9 games will work at all so make sure your using all games that use 10.1 and if you are doing so you would want a 1gb video min cause 10 will drop you 50+ fps in ddo with only a 512 meg video

[Drider]

http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/
go there its directx 10.1 for xp its still in early stages, so if you install it no dx 9 games will work at all so make sure your using all games that use 10.1 and if you are doing so you would want a 1gb video min cause 10 will drop you 50+ fps in ddo with only a 512 meg video


Might want to warn people that these aren't official upgrades.

[United]

Might want to warn people that these aren't official upgrades.

opps sorry good point. Yes everyone use at your own risk lol, if you install tis for xp and dont want it, only way to remove it is to format your hd and reinstall windows xp and bcause the dx webupdater says that you have a better version then 9.0c and wont remove it

[Impaqt]

1: DDO Works Absolutly fine on Vista. most issues people run into are related to the excessive security MS has build into the OS.

2: You will be able to play DDO exactly as you always have if you still run XP/DX9 when Mod 8 Hits.

[alans240]

Word to the wise.....if you are thinking about upgrading to Vista, be sure to go 64bit. It's the same cost and uses system resources much better. Plus the only way you can use more than 3.5 gigs of RAM.

I've been running Vistax64 for about six months now and it's been very good to me.

[United]

Word to the wise.....if you are thinking about upgrading to Vista, be sure to go 64bit. It's the same cost and uses system resources much better. Plus the only way you can use more than 3.5 gigs of RAM.

I've been running Vistax64 for about six months now and it's been very good to me.

Seriously what do you do that takes more the 4gb of ram. I have 2gb of ddr2 ram and i can burn dvd and play ddo and surf the net without any performance hits. If you use for the 2gb of ram and still having troubles i think its time to do some optimizing cause with 54 services in my background and everything else I still have about 40% of my ram well I multitask like that.

[Impaqt]

Seriously what do you do that takes more the 4gb of ram. I have 2gb of ddr2 ram and i can burn dvd and play ddo and surf the net without any performance hits. If you use for the 2gb of ram and still having troubles i think its time to do some optimizing cause with 54 services in my background and everything else I still have about 40% of my ram well I multitask like that.

Burning a DVD and Surfing the net take very little resources. DVD Burners have their own Buffers, and Web browsers are just as happy using virtual ram as they are Physical ram.

Gaming.... Now THERES a resource Hog..... DDO is quite content with 1-2 Gigs of Ram right now. Is this the Last game your ever going to play on your Current PC? Are you on Vista? Do you or do you plan on using Vistas Aero Features?

If the OS's Cost the same (They Do) and Ram is Really freakin cheap right now(It is) why Wouldnt you want more?

[United]

Burning a DVD and Surfing the net take very little resources. DVD Burners have their own Buffers, and Web browsers are just as happy using virtual ram as they are Physical ram.

Gaming.... Now THERES a resource Hog..... DDO is quite content with 1-2 Gigs of Ram right now. Is this the Last game your ever going to play on your Current PC? Are you on Vista? Do you or do you plan on using Vistas Aero Features?

If the OS's Cost the same (They Do) and Ram is Really freakin cheap right now(It is) why Wouldnt you want more?

no i dont have vista and no i dont ever need vista, and no i play crysis with 2gb ram no problem, I have windows xp black edition with dx10.1 and its an offical direct x so why bother with vista also black edition supports 4gb ram, but seriously are you ever going to use 4gb of ram cause if you show me a game that requires 4gb of ram then just maybe ill think about going to that horrible os vista, oh and by the way its going to be discontinued soon, i believe it was going to be replaced by windows 8 or something like that. Ill get back to you with the details later gtg work for now

[Impaqt]

no i dont have vista and no i dont ever need vista, and no i play crysis with 2gb ram no problem, I have windows xp black edition with dx10.1 and its an offical direct x so why bother with vista also black edition supports 4gb ram, but seriously are you ever going to use 4gb of ram cause if you show me a game that requires 4gb of ram then just maybe ill think about going to that horrible os vista, oh and by the way its going to be discontinued soon, i believe it was going to be replaced by windows 8 or something like that. Ill get back to you with the details later gtg work for now

Um, All XP's support 4 Gigs of ram......

XP "Black" edition is a Pirate Version of XP.. I wouldnt brag about using that...

There is No Official DX10 for XP.

Many game take advantage of more Ram... Its not about what a Game requires... its about what it can use.

[silverraven]

Burning a DVD and Surfing the net take very little resources. DVD Burners have their own Buffers, and Web browsers are just as happy using virtual ram as they are Physical ram.

Gaming.... Now THERES a resource Hog..... DDO is quite content with 1-2 Gigs of Ram right now. Is this the Last game your ever going to play on your Current PC? Are you on Vista? Do you or do you plan on using Vistas Aero Features?

If the OS's Cost the same (They Do) and Ram is Really freakin cheap right now(It is) why Wouldnt you want more?

It really all depends on your chipset. I have 32-bit chipset so an upgrade to Vista 64 won't do me a bit of good. Perhaps people who have problems have done just that...bought 64-bit when they have a 32-bit chipset. Its something to think about;)

[Impaqt]

It really all depends on your chipset. I have 32-bit chipset so an upgrade to Vista 64 won't do me a bit of good. Perhaps people who have problems have done just that...bought 64-bit when they have a 32-bit chipset. Its something to think about;)


What exactly is a 32 Bit Chipset?

Last time I checked, you only needed a 64Bit CPU to be able to use a 64Bit OS. If you Motherboard Supports your CPU it also supports the OS.

[QuantumFX]

My questions are:

1) Will Turbine release an idiot proof Vista install? (No mucking with securities, no having to fix Voice, etc...) Since Mod 8 is the big new player push it would make sense to make something that installs smoothly and doesn't require another 2 hours of downloading.
2) What kinds of computer resources do we need to run it comfortably on our machines?

[Impaqt]

My questions are:

1) Will Turbine release an idiot proof Vista install? (No mucking with securities, no having to fix Voice, etc...) Since Mod 8 is the big new player push it would make sense to make something that installs smoothly and doesn't require another 2 hours of downloading.
2) What kinds of computer resources do we need to run it comfortably on our machines?

TUrbine will release and idiot proof Installer when Microsoft releases and idiot proof OS.

[Uska]

Dont worry about it you will be fine, and many people who play ddo and other games toting dx10 cant use it yet so no game will do anything for now that will require it, so just keep having fun. and its best to pay no attention to wiki I dont even if they are right all info there is suspect.

[JakLee7]

Run both Vista 64bit Ultimate & XP pro (32 bit) at home. I have quite a few machines as I am quite a computer person. My Vista machine runs DDO better than the xp machine as it has more ram, bigger proc that is dual core, better vid card ect. However the OP who said "show me a game that requires 4 gigs & I will think of upgrading" you are being silly. Warcraft didn't require 2 gigs of ram. Starcraft didn't require 2 gigs of ram. KOTOR didn't require 2 gigs of ram. Jade Empire didn't require 2 gigs of ram. Doom didn't reaquire 2 gigs of ram. Half-life 2 doesn't require 2 gigs of ram. DDO doesn't require 2 gigs of ram. But games keep getting better & a 64 bit os allows you to use up to I think 128 gigs of memory without issue. A 32 bit os only lets you use 4 before you have memory adressing issues. Even sound cards now can come with memory; not to mention vid cards, physix cards, or even something like the Killer NIC which is a network card. It makes sense to upgrade to something that works well & I have no issues with Vista at all. When XP first came out lots of people hated it as they said it was horrible & no reason to upgrade from 98. Its cyclical & Vista is actually great. No reason to upgrade to Vista really though unless

1. New computer - you have to be able to upgrade the hardware, get a more flexible OS, go Vista 64 bit.
2. Upgrading hardware beyond XP's limit - look I love XP too, but unless you want to run XP 64 (I tried and it was not working out well at all, lots of issues driver wise that were really frustrating). I have 6 gigs of ram right now; eyballing those 4 gig single sticks, may eventually go to 16 gig, ddr3 will have 8 gig single sticks before we go to dd4 & you CAN quote me on that.
3.Finding out the truth. Mac adds are funny. However Vista is fine, it really is a decent OS & I have found that most of the so called "problems" people have with it result from Old hardware (same problems XP had) and good ole fashion user error.

[TechNoFear]

I think a better question is "Will DDO release a 64bit version with the DX10 upgrade?"

If not 32 bit DDO will run on 64bit OSs in the WOW64 (Windows on Windows 64 bit emulator for 32bit apps) and not be able to use the higher RAM addressing available to true 64bit apps (and therefore possibly run slower).

Also remember that you need the more expensive versions of Vista to get the higher RAM addessing but these OSs require you only use signed versions of the drivers (which are older and therefore possibly slower).

I have issues getting my software systems to work with pure 64 bit systems I can only put down to MS's current implementation (MS SQL Server 2005 32 v 64 bit versions both running on MS Server 2003 64 bit OS). If MS can not get it totally right, what hope do us mere mortals have?

[samagee]

Seriously what do you do that takes more the 4gb of ram. I have 2gb of ddr2 ram and i can burn dvd and play ddo and surf the net without any performance hits. If you use for the 2gb of ram and still having troubles i think its time to do some optimizing cause with 54 services in my background and everything else I still have about 40% of my ram well I multitask like that.

He runs Vista.

[llevenbaxx]

heh, Im sure this will sound terrible to most of you but I just bought a new comp with Vista Home Premium edition. My question is how do I know if its the 32 or 64 version. Is it the quad core x the 8MEG cache = 32... meaning I will only be able to utilize up to that 3Mb of mem? I can run on the Ultra setting w/o a hitch(on my end:)) but will forgo upgrading past the 2MB of mem it came with if this is the case

[Karranor]

I have Vista 64 Ultimate and it runs great.

But everyone here seems to be on track. You MUST do your research and make sure your hardware is compatible.

Vista is a big step up and there are LOTS of things that are not compatible due to the technology leap forward. That is where almost all of the problems I have seen and helped with have come from. Simply using old hardware or not understanding what Vista can and can not do.

Vista rocks, it is pretty and fast. Just make sure you know what you are getting and what it is going on.

It is NOT nearly as friendly as older versions of Windows and their upgrades. Use at as an excuse to get a new machine, I did... :rolleyes:

[QuantumFX]

TUrbine will release and idiot proof Installer when Microsoft releases and idiot proof OS.

As much as I love to bash Microsoft, it's up to turbine to "make it work" on Vista. When people get new computers they're getting Vista preinstalled. So it's on Turbines shoulders to support it if they want to draw in new players.

Also having some minimum suggested specs for the DX10 graphics would be nice. If I can get a reasonable assurance that an 8600GT will run MoD 8 on Vista then, hell yeah, I'm willing to take the time to reinstall Vista and try it.

[Impaqt]

As much as I love to bash Microsoft, it's up to turbine to "make it work" on Vista. When people get new computers they're getting Vista preinstalled. So it's on Turbines shoulders to support it if they want to draw in new players.

Also having some minimum suggested specs for the DX10 graphics would be nice. If I can get a reasonable assurance that an 8600GT will run MoD 8 on Vista then, hell yeah, I'm willing to take the time to reinstall Vista and try it.


you Obviously are not a Programmer..... If you were, you would of found dozens of cases where you followed microsofts recomendations to a T and still did not get the expected results.

Yes, an 8600GT on Vista will run DDO just fine in DX10. No I dont have any inside info. But the card is DX10 capable and so is the OS. Turbine isnt redoing the entire engine. They are taking advantage of a few DX10 features to improved the graphical eye Candy.

[QuantumFX]

you Obviously are not a Programmer..... If you were, you would of found dozens of cases where you followed microsofts recomendations to a T and still did not get the expected results.

Nope, not a programmer, only tech support. So, all my questions come from the perspective of: Stop making more work for the support guys. I also understand who gets to take all the blame for a game not working on Vista. In this case: Turbine. By adding DX10 eyecandy they're saying to their players "DDO works on Vista machines". I know you can't program for every contingency but getting past basics like Vista's security (fixed according to some ppl in the support forums) and the VoIP client issues (Still hearing new user nightmares on this.) should be very high on the priority list when you're next mod is all about pulling in new players.


Yes, an 8600GT on Vista will run DDO just fine in DX10. No I dont have any inside info. But the card is DX10 capable and so is the OS. Turbine isnt redoing the entire engine. They are taking advantage of a few DX10 features to improved the graphical eye Candy.

I know the card is DX10 capable. What I'm asking is how GPU resource intensive it is. A lot of your 8600GT's only have 256MB of GDDR. Also, the shadows and water were the only effects that Kate Piaz knew of during GenCon. Now think about the italicized part of that last statement. :D Last time she "knew" people were started hoping for silly things like 3d movement (Transposition/Knight's Move spells) in a 3d game.

Note: I pick on Kate Piaz for not knowing something. But, to be fair, her job as DDO cheerleader is kinda like being tile puzzle runner in the Abbot. You have to mimic the guy with the goggles (Eladrin) and hope that the tile (Feature) you're on doesn't dissappear (change). Otherwise everyone will be all over voice chat (the forums) 2 seconds later telling you what you did wrong.

[TechNoFear]

heh, Im sure this will sound terrible to most of you but I just bought a new comp with Vista Home Premium edition. My question is how do I know if its the 32 or 64 version.

The 64bit versions have additional folders for 32 bit apps suffixed with '(x86)' ie Program Files (x86) The 'System' TAB under Control Panel should also display the OS version and 32 / 64 bit.

32 bit Home Premium handles 4Gb RAM, 64 bit Home Premium 16Gb RAM.