Development FAILURE!

[Shattergod]

This Dev team has had some absolutely SPECTACULAR failures in its time. I mean they've made some truly boneheaded moves. Dwarves as the master race, leader granted raid loot, endless n/h/e grind, ghost touch items that have no business being ghost touch, the absolute lack of any real solo content to speak of.

Hand to hand martial arts specialists... who do more damage... with weapons.

The abortion we call crafting.

You know Kate Paiz is sitting in a room somewhere asking herself "Hmmm, how can we get them to grind some more?"

Either way, failure, after failure, after failure.... it's a wonder the game is still limping along.


But what is something YOU would consider the most audacious development failure... the thing any drooling refugee from a challenged community would be able to point out and say "Drrrrr!", but our Dev Team failed to get a grasp on.


For me, it's easily the real lack of Solo content. Sure we have "wilderness zones", but unless you invest a fortune in pots (that you'll never get back from the treasure in the chests) it's pretty much a nonstarter for many people. That being said the funnest time I've had on a quest in recent memory was in the giant quests in the threnal ruins... short, sweet, simple... and very soloable with a minimum of investment but fun returns.


But I'm still curious about what the masses think the Devs have been unbelievably... unwise... about...

[Torilin]

Does the entire necro count?

[Shattergod]

Does the entire necro count?

yes.

[Arkat]

Except for the Handwraps fiasco and the Abbot nonsense, I'm pretty satisfied with the game.

Nice job Devs! :)

[Angelus_dead]

But I'm still curious about what the masses think the Devs have been unbelievably... unwise... about...
Problem #1: No character respec. That is something that anyone who has worked on or even played an MMORPG before should have known. Game rules are hard, the developers are unlikely to get the rules perfect on their first try, so the rules will have to be changed. But rules cannot be changed if they would invalidate existing characters, unless those characters are permitted to adjust their build for the new rules.

By failing to do this, Turbine hobbled their ability to improve their game design.

Problem #1b: No item replacement. DDO lacks the ability for an existing magic item to change properties overnight if it turns out the original was imbalanced.

Problem #2: Inadequate customer-developer interaction. Many of DDO's problems would have been prevented or mitigated if they had properly harnessed the ability of customers to give early feedback and suggestions. For a simple example, there is still no good list of known bugs, which should be provided when someone goes to input a bug, so they can tell if it's already listed, or if they're the first player to report it. In addition, all evidence suggests that the beta-testing preview servers are poorly-managed one way or another.


Problem #3: Black Abbot. The true problem there is not the fact that they badly misjudged and screwed it up (which is excusable), but that they didn't care enough to fix it, or even try hard to fix it. A problem of that magnitude should have been a "drop everything else until it works" situation.


Problem #4: Nearsighted game design. Too many of the expansion missions added to DDO after release were wasted because they were developed as an isolated unit, and not by properly considering how they'd interact in the game as a whole. In particular, a quest interacts with the rest of the game world by the resources it provides that characters can bring to other missions (either XP or loot, or maybe also favor). A dungeon that's fun when you look at it individually may still fail to contribute to gameplay if all the appropriate-level characters are off doing profitable quests until they've advanced past the quest's level.

For a good example of that problem, look at the quests in the Necropolis. 5 at level 5-6, 5 at level 8-9, and 5 at level 11-12... all of them culminating their loot rewards with the Silver Flame Necklace, which every non-warforged should have. But to actually get that necklace, you only need find an opener and run the Cursed Crypt 3 times. All those other quests are actually not needed for the loot reward of that series. Other good examples are Enemy Within, Dead Shall Rise, Whisperdoom's Spawn, Dreams of Insanity... and I could go on and on.



Problem #5: Nonscaling raid quests. This is a special important case of nearsighted design. The timed raids in DDO were all designed for characters at or above the maximum experience level. But as the level cap went up after their release, those raids were left behind. Some aspects of the quest design (like the 3 day lockout timer, the large group size, and superior quality of certain named loot) are inherently aimed at capped characters. For example, the Chattering Ring from Warforged Titan is a valuable item for a level 16 high-AC character, but the monsters inhabiting that raid area aren't even speed-bumps for someone of that level. The disparity between the level of loot and the monsters guarding it damages gameplay.

Problem #6: Attendance-based Raid-loot System change. Modules 1-4 of DDO had a problem: the capstone raids of each module allowed 12 players to join the party, but only really 2-4 players had anything interesting to do during the raid, so there was a tendency to often play them with smaller groups. To change this, Module 5 retroactively changed those quests so that you could only get the full chance for loot if the party was packed to 12 characters.

The most obvious proof that this was a mistake is to look at the Reaver's Fate quest, which is essentially a 15-minute wait for 10 players to stand in the corner and chat, while 2 guys actually move the mission along.

[ArkoHighStar]

Have you tried perma death I hear its a whole new game:D

Oh Wait this isn't a goodbye thread, too bad:D

[sephiroth1084]

Does the entire necro count?

Seconded! (minus the Orchard itself)

[Drwaz99]

Problem #1: No character respec. That is something that anyone who has worked on or even played an MMORPG before should have known. Game rules are hard, the developers are unlikely to get the rules perfect on their first try, so the rules will have to be changed. But rules cannot be changed if they would invalidate existing characters, unless those characters are permitted to adjust their build for the new rules.

By failing to do this, Turbine hobbled their ability to improve their game design.

Problem #1b: No item replacement. DDO lacks the ability for an existing magic item to change properties overnight if it turns out the original was imbalanced.

Problem #2: Inadequate customer-developer interaction. Many of DDO's problems would have been prevented or mitigated if they had properly harnessed the ability of customers to give early feedback and suggestions. For a simple example, there is still no good list of known bugs, which should be provided when someone goes to input a bug, so they can tell if it's already listed, or if they're the first player to report it. In addition, all evidence suggests that the beta-testing preview servers are poorly-managed one way or another.


Problem #3: Black Abbot. The true problem there is not the fact that they badly misjudged and screwed it up (which is excusable), but that they didn't care enough to fix it, or even try hard to fix it. A problem of that magnitude should have been a "drop everything else until it works" situation.


Problem #4: Nearsighted game design. Too many of the expansion missions added to DDO after release were wasted because they were developed as an isolated unit, and not by properly considering how they'd interact in the game as a whole. In particular, a quest interacts with the rest of the game world by the resources it provides that characters can bring to other missions (either XP or loot, or maybe also favor). A dungeon that's fun when you look at it individually may still fail to contribute to gameplay if all the appropriate-level characters are off doing profitable quests until they've advanced past the quest's level.

For a good example of that problem, look at the quests in the Necropolis. 5 at level 5-6, 5 at level 8-9, and 5 at level 11-12... all of them culminating their loot rewards with the Silver Flame Necklace, which every non-warforged should have. But to actually get that necklace, you only need find an opener and run the Cursed Crypt 3 times. All those other quests are actually not needed for the loot reward of that series. Other good examples are Enemy Within, Dead Shall Rise, Whisperdoom's Spawn, Dreams of Insanity... and I could go on and on.



Problem #5: Nonscaling raid quests. This is a special important case of nearsighted design. The timed raids in DDO were all designed for characters at or above the maximum experience level. But as the level cap went up after their release, those raids were left behind. Some aspects of the quest design (like the 3 day lockout timer, the large group size, and superior quality of certain named loot) are inherently aimed at capped characters. For example, the Chattering Ring from Warforged Titan is a valuable item for a level 16 high-AC character, but the monsters inhabiting that raid area aren't even speed-bumps for someone of that level. The disparity between the level of loot and the monsters guarding it damages gameplay.

Problem #6: Attendance-based Raid-loot System change. Modules 1-4 of DDO had a problem: the capstone raids of each module allowed 12 players to join the party, but only really 2-4 players had anything interesting to do during the raid, so there was a tendency to often play them with smaller groups. To change this, Module 5 retroactively changed those quests so that you could only get the full chance for loot if the party was packed to 12 characters.

The most obvious proof that this was a mistake is to look at the Reaver's Fate quest, which is essentially a 15-minute wait for 10 players to stand in the corner and chat, while 2 guys actually move the mission along.

Well said, as those are the most important ones. The least important ones will be fixed in the next update. Just reading about the upcoming modules make me wonder why do I pay money for this. But I do and for now Turbine is lucky, but there will be a day, soon, if nothing changes, that I no longer will spend my money for a (imo) "lemon" of a game.

A second note, why is it all very good games end up getting trashed by the developers over the progression of the game, then eventually die. Are the developers getting bored? And Is that the case now?

[Ezzee]

I just want to say that the biggest failure for those entire game is the forums.

How else to ruin morale, destroy trustworthiness, and listen to people do nothing but ***** and moan about things that they don't understand other than on the forums. I think this game would be much better if we got rid of the forums cause then we would actually have people who enjoyed the game with little *****ing and moaning about things that really don't need to be here.

[Hafeal]

This game has flaws, no doubt and some have been mentioned in this thread.

But, I am unaware of ANY game without flaws or the capacity for improvement.

Thus, for those who do play DDO, you play because of how good it is right now and for the hope of how it will be. As for the latter, constructive criticism is what these forums are for ... but don't assume the devs must listen or that they aren't aware. Often they are ... check out ddocast Telero's posts or the other sources of info in the media.

As is often the case in our fast-food, instant gratification society, perhaps we need to slow down our expectations a tad. Content that takes months to create yet players finish within 2 hours is a dynamic that will lead to disappointment without understanding and context.

[Dirac]

AD has some nice suggestions, not all with which I agree. I have my own list, but I'll pass for now. Thinking about it, the OP's question can be divided into two different catagories.

1. What have been the biggest imporvements to the game ("mistakes" that have been fixed)?
2. What are the biggest needs to be improved now (current issues)?

This thread would have been much more fun to participate in, if the questions had been posed in that manner.

[Nevthial]

Problem #1: No character respec. That is something that anyone who has worked on or even played an MMORPG before should have known. Game rules are hard, the developers are unlikely to get the rules perfect on their first try, so the rules will have to be changed. But rules cannot be changed if they would invalidate existing characters, unless those characters are permitted to adjust their build for the new rules.

By failing to do this, Turbine hobbled their ability to improve their game design.

Problem #1b: No item replacement. DDO lacks the ability for an existing magic item to change properties overnight if it turns out the original was imbalanced.

Problem #2: Inadequate customer-developer interaction. Many of DDO's problems would have been prevented or mitigated if they had properly harnessed the ability of customers to give early feedback and suggestions. For a simple example, there is still no good list of known bugs, which should be provided when someone goes to input a bug, so they can tell if it's already listed, or if they're the first player to report it. In addition, all evidence suggests that the beta-testing preview servers are poorly-managed one way or another.


Problem #3: Black Abbot. The true problem there is not the fact that they badly misjudged and screwed it up (which is excusable), but that they didn't care enough to fix it, or even try hard to fix it. A problem of that magnitude should have been a "drop everything else until it works" situation.


Problem #4: Nearsighted game design. Too many of the expansion missions added to DDO after release were wasted because they were developed as an isolated unit, and not by properly considering how they'd interact in the game as a whole. In particular, a quest interacts with the rest of the game world by the resources it provides that characters can bring to other missions (either XP or loot, or maybe also favor). A dungeon that's fun when you look at it individually may still fail to contribute to gameplay if all the appropriate-level characters are off doing profitable quests until they've advanced past the quest's level.

For a good example of that problem, look at the quests in the Necropolis. 5 at level 5-6, 5 at level 8-9, and 5 at level 11-12... all of them culminating their loot rewards with the Silver Flame Necklace, which every non-warforged should have. But to actually get that necklace, you only need find an opener and run the Cursed Crypt 3 times. All those other quests are actually not needed for the loot reward of that series. Other good examples are Enemy Within, Dead Shall Rise, Whisperdoom's Spawn, Dreams of Insanity... and I could go on and on.



Problem #5: Nonscaling raid quests. This is a special important case of nearsighted design. The timed raids in DDO were all designed for characters at or above the maximum experience level. But as the level cap went up after their release, those raids were left behind. Some aspects of the quest design (like the 3 day lockout timer, the large group size, and superior quality of certain named loot) are inherently aimed at capped characters. For example, the Chattering Ring from Warforged Titan is a valuable item for a level 16 high-AC character, but the monsters inhabiting that raid area aren't even speed-bumps for someone of that level. The disparity between the level of loot and the monsters guarding it damages gameplay.

Problem #6: Attendance-based Raid-loot System change. Modules 1-4 of DDO had a problem: the capstone raids of each module allowed 12 players to join the party, but only really 2-4 players had anything interesting to do during the raid, so there was a tendency to often play them with smaller groups. To change this, Module 5 retroactively changed those quests so that you could only get the full chance for loot if the party was packed to 12 characters.

The most obvious proof that this was a mistake is to look at the Reaver's Fate quest, which is essentially a 15-minute wait for 10 players to stand in the corner and chat, while 2 guys actually move the mission along.

I get upset at imperfections, but I'm still mostly happy with the game. :) I agree with ya AD on these points. I think the Abbot should have been held back and used as it was when it first came out ( Hardness wise) as a level 20 raid. The minor glitches are annoying, but I usually roleplay them away as random factors in the story.. :)

[Angelus_dead]

I get upset at imperfections, but I'm still mostly happy with the game. :) I agree with ya AD on these points. I think the Abbot should have been held back and used as it was when it first came out ( Hardness wise) as a level 20 raid.
The original form of the Abbot raid was manageably beatable (and without cheating) by level 14 characters. The only tricky part was that you needed 2-3 clerics with a specific feat (and preferably with some specific loot), but aside from that recruitment obstacle there was no problem beating it. Level 20 characters would have found it far too easy. (And not only because Mordenkainen's Disjunction "ruins the Abbot's day")

The trouble started when after 1-2 weeks, the devs noticed that portions of the raid that were meant to allow you to gain tools to help fight the Abbot were being completely ignored, because acquiring those items was actually incomprably more difficult than winning without them. Thus they pushed a button making the boss unkillable until the three side challenges were finished, giving us the broken Abbot raid that has persisted (with just a few small alterations) to this day.

[Torilin]

I just want to say that the biggest failure for those entire game is the forums.

How else to ruin morale, destroy trustworthiness, and listen to people do nothing but ***** and moan about things that they don't understand other than on the forums. I think this game would be much better if we got rid of the forums cause then we would actually have people who enjoyed the game with little *****ing and moaning about things that really don't need to be here.


Actually I see the forums as a way to vent, without forums i may have quit long before this.

[jmelanie7]

Actually I see the forums as a way to vent, without forums i may have quit long before this.

You need to vent? there is other ways tho

[Gunga]

This Dev team has had some absolutely SPECTACULAR failures in its time. I mean they've made some truly boneheaded moves. Dwarves as the master race, leader granted raid loot, endless n/h/e grind, ghost touch items that have no business being ghost touch, the absolute lack of any real solo content to speak of.

Waaa.


Hand to hand martial arts specialists... who do more damage... with weapons.

Waaa.


The abortion we call crafting.

Waaa.


You know Kate Paiz is sitting in a room somewhere asking herself "Hmmm, how can we get them to grind some more?"

Waaa.




But I'm still curious about what the masses think the Devs have been unbelievably... unwise... about...


I think they've done an incredible job keeping the game up and going. I can't wait for the next couple of Mods and I've got my first Half Orc build ready to go.

Have a tissue.

[Alavatar]

Wow...

Two people added to ignore list in less then a week.

[Sharzade]

I've been playing since beta, and my Thelanis buddies and I are still enjoying DDO very much. The news that has been released since GenCon about future Mods looks yummy. It looks to me like the game is moving in a positive direction. :D Frankly, until the new content comes out, I've still got tons of work to do on my current characters. ;) I Luv the crafting!

Players who do not think DDO is their cup of tea, aren't being held down and forced to stay. Would they be less upset and happier playing other games?

Cheers,

Sharzade
:)

[Zenthalas]

If you don't like the game or are unhappy with it, go play WOW or LOTR, or better yet stop gaming. Guess what when you have over 400 terabytes of info to program some stuff will get messed up, when a majority of people are incapable of finishing a raid it gets changed. Stop whining stop venting and go do something else.

[Shattergod]

If you don't like the game or are unhappy with it, go play WOW or LOTR, or better yet stop gaming. Guess what when you have over 400 terabytes of info to program some stuff will get messed up, when a majority of people are incapable of finishing a raid it gets changed. Stop whining stop venting and go do something else.


I'm much more concerned with the design flaws than the bugs.


When they tell us it's not a bug... it's a feature.

[Grond]

I'm much more concerned with the design flaws than the bugs.


When they tell us it's not a bug... it's a feature.

Let us know when you make one without flaws, so we can come pick it apart for ya. Because, I'm sure, what you see as perfect others will find design flaws in. If you're lucky, A_D can probably come tell you everything you're doing wrong...:rolleyes:

[Torilin]

Heres one for ya, why does the barrier in the titan still not come down when the quest has been completed?

[Nirvana]

Heres one for ya, why does the barrier in the titan still not come down when the quest has been completed?

Come on, titan raid has been out for less than 2 years. Give them some time.

[BlackSteel]

For me, it's easily the real lack of Solo content. Sure we have "wilderness zones", but unless you invest a fortune in pots (that you'll never get back from the treasure in the chests) it's pretty much a nonstarter for many people. That being said the funnest time I've had on a quest in recent memory was in the giant quests in the threnal ruins... short, sweet, simple... and very soloable with a minimum of investment but fun returns.


did you miss the post where GeneralDio soloed his way up to level cap AND 1750 favor??? The game isnt nearly as hard to solo as some people make it out to be. Granted soloing as a new player would be ALOT harder, as previous experience in a quest more than makes up for almost any amount of twinkage.

arcanes and clerics can solo a vast number of quests in short time with ample reward, as can high AC toons (see the melee only competition on the khyber forums, 5 minutes Rainbow completions) Heck, I can do a fair amount of soloing with good returns on my no AC barbarian.

my biggest gripe would be the abbott puzzle implementation. The fact that their mandatory AND you have no way to select who goes to what puzzle is insane.

[Borror0]

You know, a thread like this.... is stupid.

I'm the first one to poijnt out the mistakes developers make, but a thread like this is like saying 'You're doing everything wrong.' Yes, they do mess up. Yes, we should tell them, but there's a better way to tell them and get heard. AD's post was alright as he made some valid points, but the OP... very unclassy.

[Borror0]

Heres one for ya, why does the barrier in the titan still not come down when the quest has been completed?

They finally figured out what caused it (killing with ice or disentegrate), a few months ago. Now they just have to put a fix for it.

Since it's not a high priority...

[Auran82]

They finally figured out what caused it (killing with ice or disentegrate), a few months ago. Now they just have to put a fix for it.

Since it's not a high priority...

Unless they fix the titan raid loot drop rates while they're there, I don't think it will matter.

[Borror0]

Unless they fix the titan raid loot drop rates while they're there, I don't think it will matter.

I think we've talked so much about the loot that they got it. We'd have to ask Eladrin/Deadly_Gazebo/Tharagrim for that though.

[dameron]

But what is something YOU would consider the most audacious development failure... the thing any drooling refugee from a challenged community would be able to point out and say "Drrrrr!", but our Dev Team failed to get a grasp on.


1) PVP
2) force grouping
3) enhancements (especially those that are ridiculously overpowered)
4) the "new" enhancement system (polishing sh!t)
5) the death penalty
6) blanket "boss" immunities
7) loot dilution (sacred, lesser X resistance, deception)
8) undead or kobolds as 25% of all content
9) glacial development (1 new race (elves with new color pallets) and 1 new class in 2.5 years)
10) crafting

That's a short list.

[Spell]

The entire "Demon Invasion" fiasco that dragged on and then culminated (for most of us) to a 30min Lag-Fest just trying to get out of a tavern into the Marketplace(instance 53). Let along the timing of the final event which left the non-US players asking, "What happened to the tent?! Awww, I missed it!!"

[Mithran]

To me, the question is why aren't mobs of people coming here every day?

I think the frustration the loyal players feel is due to the failure of the general population to see how superior a game this really is. The graphics put every other game to shame. The ability to customize different viable builds is the best around. The combat system is superior to any other game I've played.

The game's main failures, as I see it, would be easily addressed by more money flowing into DDO coffers; development, artwork, new content.

[likuei]

Nvm.

[Pyromaniac]

My biggest beef is the overpowered nature of Dwarf toons, especially Melee and how the game is catering at the end game to those dwarf melee players.

DDO is still a great game, because the combat is amazing, and I do love the Auction House as well. I would say we're still around in spite of some of the bad design decisions because of that.

For those people who think there's no need for any negative feedback in the forums - the game would be a thousand times worse if there wasn't criticism in the forums. People are criticizing to make the game better (and to vent). If you criticize - you still care, and if you still care...you continue to pay your sub.

If criticizing DDO wasn't allowed the forums would be a wasteland.

Is it time for another server merge?

[Borror0]

For those people who think there's no need for any negative feedback in the forums - the game would be a thousand times worse if there wasn't criticism in the forums. People are criticizing to make the game better (and to vent). If you criticize - you still care, and if you still care...you continue to pay your sub.
I don't know if this was adressed to me, but I'll reply.

Saying this and this is bad is alright. I do it fairly often on these forums. That's the best way we got to improve the game as players. However, making a thread to say 'list all that sucks in this game' is not classy.

[parvo]

Have you tried perma death I hear its a whole new game:D

Oh Wait this isn't a goodbye thread, too bad:D

Try permadeath :)

Actually, there are some pretty annoying things that have been let to linger too long, but lack of solo content? Nah...

[Gunga]

For those people who think there's no need for any negative feedback in the forums - the game would be a thousand times worse if there wasn't criticism in the forums. People are criticizing to make the game better (and to vent). If you criticize - you still care, and if you still care...you continue to pay your sub.



Ha ha ha ha ha ha, no.

Whining, critiquing, venting and quality control are all seperate issues. Critiquing an issue and offering ways of improvement and quality control are ways of helping the game. Whining and venting are garbage.

1000x worse? Really?

[Strakeln]

Some very good points all around, I think A_D really nailed a lot of stuff.

I spent some time thinking about it, and I think I have found what is arguably a root cause of most of the game's problems: the change to the update cycle. When I first started this game, there were updates every month, containing all kinds of new content. Every month there were 5 or so new dungeons to play with, and every three months or so there was a massive update with new dungeons, a raid, and often other cool things (like Drow).

A while ago, this changed from the "monthly" release cycle to a "quarterly" release cycle. But instead of receiving three months worth of content on these quarterly releases, we'd end up with a month and a half at best... and that amount continued to slide with each release. To the point now that we were given two raids to keep us busy for four or five (or god knows how many) months.

All this time between new content and new loot to farm gives us a lot of time to find things to complain about. It makes the rough edges (which have always been there) more visible. And it leaves us bored with something that we pay to do.

I'm not saying that Turbine shouldn't try to implement some of A_D's changes to their process. I am saying that the majority of the community - myself included - will have less to complain about (or less time to complain) if they're too busy trying out new things.

[SlipperyPete]

I gotta say, if something in my life was making me this unhappy without at least being soft and looking good in a set of lingerie I think I'd be taking steps to separate myself.

[Strykersz]

Problem #1b: No item replacement. DDO lacks the ability for an existing magic item to change properties overnight if it turns out the original was imbalanced.

I thought they retroactively changed some of the cookies to the new effects?

[Borror0]

I thought they retroactively changed some of the cookies to the new effects?

It seems selective. Levik's Defender, for example, required a ritual of repair.

[Angelus_dead]

It seems selective. Levik's Defender, for example, required a ritual of repair.
They don't have an effective system for changing items. Sometimes depending on the nature of the item and it's properties they can do a change, sometimes they can't. They can change what properties do, which works out if the unique item had a unique property, but not if it's built up from existing properties.

For example, the original version of the Seeker weapon property was woefully underpowered, as it only gave +X on confirm rolls. They fixed Seeker by making it also boost critical-hit damage. But that meant that the pre-existing non-weapon item with Seeker on it, the Bloodstone, became overpowered (better than most raid gear, including every raid trinket). If they'd had a way to change Bloodstone from Seeker 6 to Seeker 2, then it would have been fine.

Sometimes they can only do the change if the player possessing it consents, which is pretty useless for nerfing overpowered items.

If they had planned ahead properly, they would have been able to enforce an unseen replacement of old -> new items when characters log in, or when the server restarts, or some other unavoidable time.

[DoctorWhofan]

I've been playing since beta, and my Thelanis buddies and I are still enjoying DDO very much. The news that has been released since GenCon about future Mods looks yummy. It looks to me like the game is moving in a positive direction. :D Frankly, until the new content comes out, I've still got tons of work to do on my current characters. ;) I Luv the crafting!

Players who do not think DDO is their cup of tea, aren't being held down and forced to stay. Would they be less upset and happier playing other games?

Cheers,

Sharzade
:)

Agreed. Quite happy and looking forward to the new changes in the Harbor.


You know, a thread like this.... is stupid.

I'm the first one to poijnt out the mistakes developers make, but a thread like this is like saying 'You're doing everything wrong.' Yes, they do mess up. Yes, we should tell them, but there's a better way to tell them and get heard. AD's post was alright as he made some valid points, but the OP... very unclassy.

Talk to Borror0 on Paladins. He has a long list of broke with that class alone. We know that, but we try to do positive threads, not negitive threads.


To me, the question is why aren't mobs of people coming here every day?

I think the frustration the loyal players feel is due to the failure of the general population to see how superior a game this really is. The graphics put every other game to shame. The ability to customize different viable builds is the best around. The combat system is superior to any other game I've played.

The game's main failures, as I see it, would be easily addressed by more money flowing into DDO coffers; development, artwork, new content.


QFT.

[MJNOR1]

There are two threads on the forums home page from Shattergod and they are both bashing the game in some form. If DDO is soooo bad Shattergod then you should quit playing and move on.

[DoctorWhofan]

There are two threads on the forums home page from Shattergod and they are both bashing the game in some form. If DDO is soooo bad Shattergod then you should quit playing and move on.

well, I was thinking that, but people have placed some legitimate concerns on this one so I didn't.

[Shattergod]

There are two threads on the forums home page from Shattergod and they are both bashing the game in some form. If DDO is soooo bad Shattergod then you should quit playing and move on.

I agree, in fact, that's the best way to improve the game.

By everyone who doesn't like anything about it to just LEAVE.

That'll mak crafting better, and bring the races up to dwarfhood, and everything else.

Yeah, good idea sport.

[MJNOR1]

Where are your CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions to IMPROVE the game? I must have missed that part.......

[branmakmuffin]

I agree, in fact, that's the best way to improve the game.

By everyone who doesn't like anything about it to just LEAVE.

That'll mak crafting better, and bring the races up to dwarfhood, and everything else.

Yeah, good idea sport.
Quitting is the only kind of feedback Turbine is really going to listen to. As long as people pay the money, Turbine really couldn't care less how much you complain.

Now, that said, I say "complain as much as you desire and ignore those who tell you to stop complaining."

[Dexxaan]

This game has flaws, no doubt and some have been mentioned in this thread.

But, I am unaware of ANY game without flaws or the capacity for improvement.

Thus, for those who do play DDO, you play because of how good it is right now and for the hope of how it will be. As for the latter, constructive criticism is what these forums are for ... but don't assume the devs must listen or that they aren't aware. Often they are ... check out ddocast Telero's posts or the other sources of info in the media.

As is often the case in our fast-food, instant gratification society, perhaps we need to slow down our expectations a tad. Content that takes months to create yet players finish within 2 hours is a dynamic that will lead to disappointment without understanding and context.

Good reading here Shatter...


Waaa.



Waaa.



Waaa.



Waaa.




I think they've done an incredible job keeping the game up and going. I can't wait for the next couple of Mods and I've got my first Half Orc build ready to go.

Have a tissue.

LMAO....Nice Gunga, definitely another way of putting things into perspective.


If you don't like the game or are unhappy with it, go play WOW or LOTR, or better yet stop gaming. Guess what when you have over 400 terabytes of info to program some stuff will get messed up, when a majority of people are incapable of finishing a raid it gets changed. Stop whining stop venting and go do something else.

/Agreed.


Where are your CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions to IMPROVE the game? I must have missed that part.......

He and The Muffin Man are probably roommates....ain´t gonna happen.


Quitting is the only kind of feedback Turbine is really going to listen to. As long as people pay the money, Turbine really couldn't care less how much you complain.

Now, that said, I say "complain as much as you desire and ignore those who tell you to stop complaining."

See what I mean??

[branmakmuffin]

He and The Muffin Man are probably roommates....ain´t gonna happen.
Someone's not walkin' on sunshine.

[Venar]

First, i gota say, it makes you look really stupid to say the the biggest failure of a multiplayer game is the lack of solo content.
Duh.
Do you also think that Solitaire fails as a group game?


As for the worst design flaw, currently, i'd say that it's the inflated mob HP that makes any damage (from weapon or spells) useless compaired to alternate effect (insta-death spells, insta death weapon-effect, and stat damage).
If it wasnt for bosses, nobody would even carry damage around.

[Raithe]

For me, it's easily the real lack of Solo content.

I would really like to know what this means. What quest would you like to be able to solo that you can't? If they changed it so you could solo it, why would you not invite anyone else to the party via an LFM?

I have my own answers to these questions, but I don't think solo content is a problem for this game.



To me, the question is why aren't mobs of people coming here every day?

I think the frustration the loyal players feel is due to the failure of the general population to see how superior a game this really is. The graphics put every other game to shame. The ability to customize different viable builds is the best around. The combat system is superior to any other game I've played.

The game's main failures, as I see it, would be easily addressed by more money flowing into DDO coffers; development, artwork, new content.

And yet some longtime players are simply waiting for something 3D & old school D&D-ish to come along while they play DDO. What is agonizing for them is the obliviousness of the existing playerbase and the developers regarding why lots of people don't like this game.

I agree the character customization, graphics, and realtime combat (for the most part) are exceptional. A good game, however, simply requires more.

[Sharzade]

I like DDO and have played it since Beta without any break in my subscription. I've also played other games like Lotro, Vanguard, and AoC and simply didn't like them enough to keep playing. Too much solo content, standing around with too many other competing players for killcount quests/harvesting, and killing time on grindy travel quests around immense MMO worlds used to make me want to cry. And I really missed DDO combat, the amount of control I have in DDO character building, multiclassing, and how fast groups can meet and get into quests/raids. Some players enjoy those games, and I'm happy they do. The irony is that for those other MMO games to attract me for a substantial period of time, they'd have to change and become more like DDO. ;)

DDO is a unique game. On average we're older than gamers from other MMOs, and are looking for something different from the conventional MMO games out there.

The work the devs are doing on the New Player Experience (according to Gencon reports) makes me feel that they are responding to what new players need to find their DDO feet. I'm sure they care about their players, and do as much as they can to satisfy a variety of tastes in the game.

Currently, I'm looking forward to what's coming to DDO. Some of the info that came out of GenCon about future Mods looks very tasty indeed. :)

Cheers,

Sharzade
:p
:D

[Pyromaniac]

I don't know if this was adressed to me, but I'll reply.


Nope it wasn't addressed to you, it was addressed to someone's comment that was removed/deleted.

[Spell]

Development Failure.
How about adding a new class and NOT giving people another character slot?!?!?!

[Aesop]

My List

1. Dodge Bonuses on Items. This is a NoNo. Too much cheese and I'm prepared to Whine

2. Toughness. OK so a race that gets more HP for 10ap than some classes do for 10 levels... not a good plan. The HP disparity the lines have caused creates master builds and that's not cool

3. Greensteel items... if we stopped at tier 2 they would be cool without being over the top... tier 3 and their associated uber abilities make the game a little twitchy.

4. Master race. I argued loud and long when the new enhancment system came into play that dwarves were overpowered, but no one listened and now they say they can't change anything cause dwarf lovers would be mad... yeah that annoyed me

5. Crit Rage. Making a line that improves one classes ability to proc crit only effects in a game where crit only effects lead the way... was not a briliant move.


Sadly though I would like all of these to change ... its not gonna happen anytime this side of reality.

I would like to see some development in regards to fleshing out the weak areas... but that said we need to tread lightly or end up with a snowball effect.

[Auran82]

5. Crit Rage. Making a line that improves one classes ability to proc crit only effects in a game where crit only effects lead the way... was not a briliant move.

I could be wrong here (and only time will tell) but I still feel that the recent 'accidental' changing of Crit Rage I to level 6 and Crit Rage II to level 12 seems to be like they were changing the enhancement around to make room for a third tier at level 18, either:

1 - Changing what the enhancement does to something else while still keeping the feel of what they were trying to achieve without making barbarians want to weild finesse weapons.

2 - Making it into a prestige enhancement with proper pre-requisites (feats and/or enhancements) and maybe even a change in what it does (maybe split it into 3 'paths', slash, pierce and blunt)

Don't start me on the toughness enhancements :)

[Borror0]

Making it into a prestige enhancement with proper pre-requisites (feats and/or enhancements) and maybe even a change in what it does (maybe split it into 3 'paths', slash, pierce and blunt)

The only problem with Crit Rage is what it does to WoPs and the like.

[Venar]

TBH, i think the Halfling love makes it a race on par with dwarves and Drows.
Now, if elves and humans could be re-visited. And warforged too.

[Grond]

I agree, in fact, that's the best way to improve the game.

By everyone who doesn't like anything about it to just LEAVE.

That'll mak crafting better, and bring the races up to dwarfhood, and everything else.

Yeah, good idea sport.

Your definition of better is not everyone's definition of better. Niether is mine, nor anyone else's. Your perception of what is an improvement, or necessary, or a failure is not the same as mine. Mine is not the same as everyone else's. If the developers chose to go a certain direction with a game, and it makes the game not fun for me, I go find another game that is fun. (see SWG:NGE). Apparently, SWG was able to survive without me, as it's still going (as far as I know, I don't really keep in touch with it). If DDO is such a terrible game to you, such a collossal failure, why have you stuck around for over 2 years?

I personally don't mind the implementation of the crafting system in this setting. I'd like to see more, but It'll come eventually.

Out of 14 characters I have, I have 3 dwarves, 4 warforged, 3 elf, 2 drow, 2 human. Dwarves aren't the be all end all to me.

[oogly54]

My List

3. Greensteel items... if we stopped at tier 2 they would be cool without being over the top... tier 3 and their associated uber abilities make the game a little twitchy.

4. Master race. I argued loud and long when the new enhancment system came into play that dwarves were overpowered, but no one listened and now they say they can't change anything cause dwarf lovers would be mad... yeah that annoyed me

5. Crit Rage. Making a line that improves one classes ability to proc crit only effects in a game where crit only effects lead the way... was not a briliant move.


QFT

1) Dwarves more powerful than a prestige race? Wow that is ********.
2) Barbarian Crit Rage an enhancement AND all weapons included. Should have been implemented like PnP and been a feat and only one weapon can be chosen. Barbarians don't get many feats and to make this an enhancment allows this negative to not matter. To get all the weapons makes the lack of feats obsolete. How many barbs would have two feats used for crit rage if they needed one for rapiers and one for great axes. What would they lose as feats to get this?
3) To increase the disparity between Dwarves and Barbarians the crafted weapoins of choice by this race and class are improved drastically more than any other weapon, WHY? (Khopesh goes from a 1d8 to a 1d10, two points increase, how about the greataxe and dwarven axe?)
4) Shroud crafting is WAY overpowered and makes all other loot obsolete, besides rare WOPs and named loot. Now we are stuck with grinding for ingrediants or increasing the power of all weapons to make them useful again. I say this while owning 4 teir 3 weapons and 3 teir three non weapon items. Obviously I am not a casual player, but how do you expect a casual to stay anywhere close to that?

With all the issues with the game, I LOVE THIS GAME. For every bad design flaw there are three great design features. I only have one request, PLEASE STOP INCREASING THE POWER OF DWARVES, BARBARIANS AND THE ITEMS THEY USE!!!

P.S.
Anyone that argues that Dwarves are not over powered is an idiot and is reduced to zero credibility.

[creithne]

The only problem with Crit Rage is what it does to WoPs and the like.

Really? I always thought the problem with Crit Rage was that it turns fully raged out berserkers into deadly duellists who can precisely target vulnerable areas to do massive amounts of damage...rather than..ya know...doing massive amounts of damage based on the the enormous, uncontrollable, all comsuming RAGE that the barbarian is in...I still fail to see how being enraged = being more accurate with your strikes...

[oogly54]

Really? I always thought the problem with Crit Rage was that it turns fully raged out berserkers into deadly duellists who can precisely target vulnerable areas to do massive amounts of damage...rather than..ya know...doing massive amounts of damage based on the the enormous, uncontrollable, all comsuming RAGE that the barbarian is in...I still fail to see how being enraged = being more accurate with your strikes...

Or how when Enraged you can stop, open your backpack, drink a few pots, and then continue your destruction. Oh, don't barbarians HATE magic? When getting huge bonuses to STR, CON, Crit range, Crit Damage, ETC. There needs to be some negative. Same goes for a twirling ranger duel weilding. How can you strike for huge damage when you can't put your weight and strength behind an attack because if you do there is no possible way you could continue to attack 9 more times in a round.

[Drinkin]

Problem #1: No character respec. That is something that anyone who has worked on or even played an MMORPG before should have known. Game rules are hard, the developers are unlikely to get the rules perfect on their first try, so the rules will have to be changed. But rules cannot be changed if they would invalidate existing characters, unless those characters are permitted to adjust their build for the new rules.

By failing to do this, Turbine hobbled their ability to improve their game design.

Problem #1b: No item replacement. DDO lacks the ability for an existing magic item to change properties overnight if it turns out the original was imbalanced.

Problem #2: Inadequate customer-developer interaction. Many of DDO's problems would have been prevented or mitigated if they had properly harnessed the ability of customers to give early feedback and suggestions. For a simple example, there is still no good list of known bugs, which should be provided when someone goes to input a bug, so they can tell if it's already listed, or if they're the first player to report it. In addition, all evidence suggests that the beta-testing preview servers are poorly-managed one way or another.


Problem #3: Black Abbot. The true problem there is not the fact that they badly misjudged and screwed it up (which is excusable), but that they didn't care enough to fix it, or even try hard to fix it. A problem of that magnitude should have been a "drop everything else until it works" situation.


Problem #4: Nearsighted game design. Too many of the expansion missions added to DDO after release were wasted because they were developed as an isolated unit, and not by properly considering how they'd interact in the game as a whole. In particular, a quest interacts with the rest of the game world by the resources it provides that characters can bring to other missions (either XP or loot, or maybe also favor). A dungeon that's fun when you look at it individually may still fail to contribute to gameplay if all the appropriate-level characters are off doing profitable quests until they've advanced past the quest's level.

For a good example of that problem, look at the quests in the Necropolis. 5 at level 5-6, 5 at level 8-9, and 5 at level 11-12... all of them culminating their loot rewards with the Silver Flame Necklace, which every non-warforged should have. But to actually get that necklace, you only need find an opener and run the Cursed Crypt 3 times. All those other quests are actually not needed for the loot reward of that series. Other good examples are Enemy Within, Dead Shall Rise, Whisperdoom's Spawn, Dreams of Insanity... and I could go on and on.



Problem #5: Nonscaling raid quests. This is a special important case of nearsighted design. The timed raids in DDO were all designed for characters at or above the maximum experience level. But as the level cap went up after their release, those raids were left behind. Some aspects of the quest design (like the 3 day lockout timer, the large group size, and superior quality of certain named loot) are inherently aimed at capped characters. For example, the Chattering Ring from Warforged Titan is a valuable item for a level 16 high-AC character, but the monsters inhabiting that raid area aren't even speed-bumps for someone of that level. The disparity between the level of loot and the monsters guarding it damages gameplay.

Problem #6: Attendance-based Raid-loot System change. Modules 1-4 of DDO had a problem: the capstone raids of each module allowed 12 players to join the party, but only really 2-4 players had anything interesting to do during the raid, so there was a tendency to often play them with smaller groups. To change this, Module 5 retroactively changed those quests so that you could only get the full chance for loot if the party was packed to 12 characters.

The most obvious proof that this was a mistake is to look at the Reaver's Fate quest, which is essentially a 15-minute wait for 10 players to stand in the corner and chat, while 2 guys actually move the mission along.

1a Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't deleting and rerolling be a complete respec?
1b They can and have.
2 Risia server but I don't think enough people used it so they shut it down. Also the forums.
3 I think abbot works fine. If it's too hard for you... get better.
4 Your most valid point how ever so many people complain about having to grind for loot why add another?
5 Plain ridiculous. Should WW or Tangleroot scale as well? Both have static rewards useful to people of a much higher level
6 I personaly thought this was the greatest thing since sliced bread and for a fat man like myself that's pretty great.


They don't have an effective system for changing items. Sometimes depending on the nature of the item and it's properties they can do a change, sometimes they can't. They can change what properties do, which works out if the unique item had a unique property, but not if it's built up from existing properties.

For example, the original version of the Seeker weapon property was woefully underpowered, as it only gave +X on confirm rolls. They fixed Seeker by making it also boost critical-hit damage. But that meant that the pre-existing non-weapon item with Seeker on it, the Bloodstone, became overpowered (better than most raid gear, including every raid trinket). If they'd had a way to change Bloodstone from Seeker 6 to Seeker 2, then it would have been fine.

Sometimes they can only do the change if the player possessing it consents, which is pretty useless for nerfing overpowered items.

If they had planned ahead properly, they would have been able to enforce an unseen replacement of old -> new items when characters log in, or when the server restarts, or some other unavoidable time.

Seeker always did that. They just updated the description.

I would have loved to quote most of you people complaining but instead I'll move on. To sate the curiousity of the op the biggest mistakes that the devs have made are.
1 Allowing lvl 1 toons to start a guild.
2 Not having standardized IQ tests for people before allowing them to sign up for a new account.
3 Listening too much to the people complaining on the forums all the time... "nerf this", "nerf that", "make my pali fight as well as a barb" classes aren't equal neither are races.

p.s. Since half the threads I read touch on this subject... crit rage is fine. I refuse to play a barb and I can usually get 80% of the kills a wop barb gets on my ranger. I can cast barkskin, csw/cmw/clw, resist energy, fom, and plenty of other handy spells. I personally think the barb got the short end of the stick.

[Borror0]

Really? I always thought the problem with Crit Rage was that it turns fully raged out berserkers into deadly duellists who can precisely target vulnerable areas to do massive amounts of damage...rather than..ya know...doing massive amounts of damage based on the the enormous, uncontrollable, all comsuming RAGE that the barbarian is in...I still fail to see how being enraged = being more accurate with your strikes...

It totally depends on how you look at it.

I do agree that, from a logical point of view, barbarians should have better criticals rather than more of them. However, increasing the threat range makes weapons with high critical multipliers like axes better. If, on the other hand, Critical Rage would improve the critical multiplier it'd be weapons with better critical range that would be better. Since weapon with high critical multiplier are more barbaric weapons... you can argue it both ways.

[Auran82]

It totally depends on how you look at it.

I do agree that, from a logical point of view, barbarians should have better criticals rather than more of them. However, increasing the threat range makes weapons with high critical multipliers like axes better. If, on the other hand, Critical Rage would improve the critical multiplier it'd be weapons with better critical range that would be better. Since weapon with high critical multiplier are more barbaric weapons... you can argue it both ways.

Make crit rage only work on non-finesse weapons?

[Borror0]

1a Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't deleting and rerolling be a complete respec?
You do understand the consequences of rerolling and why it is unpleasant, do you?

Risia server but I don't think enough people used it so they shut it down. Also the forums.
:rolleyes:

I think abbot works fine. If it's too hard for you... get better.
Content run by less than 5% of the playerbase is wasted content. Wasted content is not desirable.

Your most valid point how ever so many people complain about having to grind for loot why add another?
It's not adding a grind, it's 'creating' content with less effort than it'd take to make a new dungeon.

I personaly thought this was the greatest thing since sliced bread and for a fat man like myself that's pretty great.
What's so great abut it? Getting 0 loot? Freeloading?


Seeker always did that. They just updated the description.

That's not true.



The bonus from Seeker now also adds to the base damage of the weapon on critical hits (before multiplication). Beware Seeker Heavy Picks.

Scource: Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon Release Notes (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Update_4.1:_Mark_of_the_Dragon)

[Borror0]

Make crit rage only work on non-finesse weapons?

That would be totally silly. You shall not be able to use light weapons in your off-hand!!!:rolleyes:;)

[creithne]

I know its been discussed almost to death previously, and maybe its a slight derail of this thread, but considering devs themselves have said that Crit Rage went too far, has anyone come up with an even remotely viable way to "balance" (fix, nerf, whatever you want to call it) this enhancement? (Best one I've seen so far is to tie it to a particular weapon or maybe weapon type, rather than an all encompassing enhancement that works for all weapons.)

[Borror0]

I know its been discussed almost to death previously, and maybe its a slight derail of this thread, but considering devs themselves have said that Crit Rage went too far, has anyone come up with an even remotely viable way to "balance" (fix, nerf, whatever you want to call it) this enhancement?

It's not much so far now, since they are giving faster attack speed to rangers and paladins...


(Best one I've seen so far is to tie it to a particular weapon or maybe weapon type, rather than an all encompassing enhancement that works for all weapons.)

This would not fix anything. The best idea I have seen so far is to not make it affect procs.

[oogly54]

It's not much so far now, since they are giving faster attack speed to rangers and paladins...


Faster attacks for paladins? I havn't heard this.

[Angelus_dead]

This would not fix anything. The best idea I have seen so far is to not make it affect procs.
In addition it might help if it worked on mainhand only, although adding such a complex rule would break parsimony. That would reduce the pressure to TWF.

An alternative way to fix it, by nerfing very severly, is to change it to +1 crit mult on natural 20s. Tier 2 would be +1 on 19s. That modification would remove any bias towards weapons with puncturing/banishing properties (as they're not boosted by multiplier) and towards weapons with a particular crit profile (since the boost would be the same for everything, so long as you were already able to crit on a 19)

[Ryavin]

Wow, are you guys serious. All I have read are complaints about the best game out on the market.
1. If you think it is so easy, make one yourself and play it.
2. Dwarves overpowered? Yes they get nice enhancements, but if you can't keep up with them as another race, then you just aren't a good enough player-get over it. I have 0 dwarf melees (all elves) and have no problem with any elite content in the game.
3. Solo content--this is a group game, and yes you can solo most of the content. If you are unable to, once again you must not be a good enough player.
4. Loot complaints--this is my favorite. Why don't you just type in what loot you want everytime? Will that make you happy? Their is so much loot in this game it is crazy and you want more?

I know you can't please everyone, but the few people that are complaining her need to get a life. Posts like this on the forums scare off potential new subs. Subs are necessary to collect $$$ in order to fix things that you are soo eloquently stating are wrong. And no, the customer is not always right!!!

By the way, they are enhancing the other races. They have stated this in the past. I still don't see a prob with a race that is inherently tougher than they other ones getting a bonus for being tough.

[Dexxaan]

In addition it might help if it worked on mainhand only, although adding such a complex rule would break parsimony. That would reduce the pressure to TWF.

An alternative way to fix it, by nerfing very severly, is to change it to +1 crit mult on natural 20s. Tier 2 would be +1 on 19s. That modification would remove any bias towards weapons with puncturing/banishing properties (as they're not boosted by multiplier) and towards weapons with a particular crit profile (since the boost would be the same for everything, so long as you were already able to crit on a 19)

Now this option I like, and I also believe that the "Take a feat for XYZ Weapon or Weapon Type" would work if what AD is proposing is ignored.

Just hope we "live" to see this corrected.

[creithne]

I still don't see a prob with a race that is inherently tougher than they other ones getting a bonus for being tough.

Then where's the warforged toughness enhancement line?

[Dexxaan]

Then where's the warforged toughness enhancement line?

Toughness is a point of view...not being able to care if your cursed for repairing purposes (VOD) is a "Toughness"; Higher CON is a Toughness, Immunities also make you....Tough.

Just have to know the races a bit more in depth to get your answer.:rolleyes:

[Drinkin]

You do understand the consequences of rerolling and why it is unpleasant, do you?
Yes I do understand that it's not the prefered method and I myself have been a victim of it multiple times twice on the same toon. I once rolled up a human rogue/wiz 12/2 after the human versatility nerf I rerolled into a drow capped it at 14/2 and ended up rerolling because of insightful reflexes since I had sacrificed some int to put into dex. I still think that a full respec option would be silly. You can already change out all your spells over time on sorc/bard, reset your enhancements, and redo your feats once again over time. How much more is needed?

Content run by less than 5% of the playerbase is wasted content. Wasted content is not desirable.
agreed that 5% is a waste although there are plenty of quests that see only 5% should we redo them all? I want new content and I assume you do as well. Lets cut our losses and move on.

It's not adding a grind, it's 'creating' content with less effort than it'd take to make a new dungeon.
It's not 'creating' anything it's making people run quests they don't want to. I run them anyway I try to get 1750 favor on each of my toons. Necropolis is a lot of favor!!
What's so great abut it? Getting 0 loot? Freeloading?
Freeloading on 1 quest? Well I guess I'm ok with that when I do hound and two Tumbleweeds, Breastplate of destruction. and Lorrik's Necklace drop I've had far more runs with 4+ items dropping that I have with 0 maybe I'm just lucky.



That's not true.


Scource: Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon Release Notes (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Update_4.1:_Mark_of_the_Dragon)
I stand corrected. Thanks for sighting your source I hate it when people insist their info is better than mine but don't sight a source.

To the OP I think the devs do pretty well I still vote for a paid expansion!!

[creithne]

Toughness is a point of view...not being able to care if your cursed for repairing purposes (VOD) is a "Toughness"; Higher CON is a Toughness, Immunities also make you....Tough.

Just have to know the races a bit more in depth to get your answer.:rolleyes:


All true, however, I believe the post I was responding to was referring to the dwarf's +2 CON bonus...which appears to have been the basis for the Dwarven toughness enhancements...just sayin...warforged have that very same +2 CON bonus... I'd say getting bonuses to AC vs Giants...the ability to get more AC than any other race out of any suit of armor...and like you said...Higher CON...also make you...Tough :rolleyes: so why do the dwarves need a toughness enhancement so much more than the warforged?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Hand to hand martial arts specialists... who do more damage... with weapons.

That is kind of funny


The abortion we call crafting.

Are you upset because its too grindy? Too overpowered? Too....????


You know Kate Paiz is sitting in a room somewhere asking herself "Hmmm, how can we get them to grind some more?"

Yup, I think she is, and unfortunately a lot of the player base seems to want that based on other crafting suggestions in the forums :(


For me, it's easily the real lack of Solo content. Sure we have "wilderness zones", but unless you invest a fortune in pots (that you'll never get back from the treasure in the chests) it's pretty much a nonstarter for many people.

I disagree strongly here, D&D is a group game, and it should be kept that way.



But I'm still curious about what the masses think the Devs have been unbelievably... unwise... about...

Too many deviations from D&D, especially the absolute hyper inflation of treasure and stats. If everyone didn't have +6 stat items and +1 (or +3) tomes and half their stats plus another +3 for enhancements we wouldn't be stuck with monsters with 70AC and 8billion hps.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

To the OP I think the devs do pretty well I still vote for a paid expansion!!

I'll quit the game the day they do that.

[Laith]

To the OP I think the devs do pretty well I still vote for a paid expansion!!I'll quit the game the day they do that.
some people seem to think that an expansion would automatically equal "more".
IMO, an expansion means that either Turbine hires more developers, or they take away work from free content.
which do you feel is more likely?

They also seem to ignore the fact that expansions posess a "have" and "have not" quality. If they include quests, it quite literally makes 2 seperate sub-populations out of each server. DDO already has a low population.

I do agree that DDO should put a box on the shelves again, though. This could easily be done by following the CoH model of re-packaging the same game in "special edition" type formats.

[Dexxaan]

All true, however, I believe the post I was responding to was referring to the dwarf's +2 CON bonus...which appears to have been the basis for the Dwarven toughness enhancements...just sayin...warforged have that very same +2 CON bonus... I'd say getting bonuses to AC vs Giants...the ability to get more AC than any other race out of any suit of armor...and like you said...Higher CON...also make you...Tough :rolleyes: so why do the dwarves need a toughness enhancement so much more than the warforged?

I don´t believe that just because x or y race has a higher possible CON it entitles them to an Enhancement of said attribute.

You can ASSUME that...true. But I wouldn´t claim it the "Basis".

You seem a strong defendant of WF and all I can point out is that they are a VERY impressive Race for many possible builds. The price they pay is AC.... other races pay other prices....no biggie.

[Drinkin]

I'll quit the game the day they do that.

First off I am ok with that. Second the reason for a paid expansion is not because I want to spend more money. It is because I would love to walk into my local game store and see someone pick up the box and say 'my goodness I didn't realize that was still out there!!'. I don't care if it's $9.99 or $39.99 Not only that but with the thousands of dollars ddo has saved me I feel I owe them at least a few more $$

[Borror0]

An alternative way to fix it, by nerfing very severly, is to change it to +1 crit mult on natural 20s. Tier 2 would be +1 on 19s. That modification would remove any bias towards weapons with puncturing/banishing properties (as they're not boosted by multiplier) and towards weapons with a particular crit profile (since the boost would be the same for everything, so long as you were already able to crit on a 19)

True, and not a bad idea. The problem is that it would reduce barbarian's DPS further under ranger's...

[creithne]

Sorry, was just looking for the "basis" of giving dwarves the racial toughness enhancement, since that seems to be one of the big reasons that people are saying Dwarves are over powered. And yes...I like warforged...and while it may have come off as "Wah, Warforged SHOULD get a toughness enhancement too!", I was really just trying to find a reason that Dwarves have a toughness line. I think ANYONE (any race any class) should be able to take toughness enhancements if that's how they want to spend their enhancement points...the enhancement should be tied to the feat, not to a race and/or class, IMO.

[Drinkin]

some people seem to think that an expansion would automatically equal "more".
IMO, an expansion means that either Turbine hires more developers, or they take away work from free content.
which do you feel is more likely?

They also seem to ignore the fact that expansions posess a "have" and "have not" quality. If they include quests, it quite literally makes 2 seperate sub-populations out of each server. DDO already has a low population.

I do agree that DDO should put a box on the shelves again, though. This could easily be done by following the CoH model of re-packaging the same game in "special edition" type formats.

QFT

Quite possibly a better solution to the low server populations. I think that releasing a new special edition would work fine. When I think of paid expansion I think of two or three new races and three to five new classes not to mention the lvl cap going up as well as a ton of new content. I could have a different view than the devs. If there is a paid expansion I would expect a lot more out of it than just a shiney new box. I've read and heard people talking about wanting another server merge. That is the last thing I want. I want more people playing so that they can afford to release monthly content again.

[Borror0]

All I have read are complaints about the best game out on the market.

While I disagree with the intend of the thread, saying we should not give feedback is simply silly.

Yes, this game is the most awesome game on the market, in my opinion, but it is not perfect. Feedback is impportant, it helps Turbine improving the game.


How much more is needed?

Skill, class levels, stats.

Why? 'cause there are so many good options that are avoided becuase it'd **** too many people off. It'd riddiculously weaken their character and it's a non-respec part of their build. The lack of some respec options limited the enhancements and feats Dev may be incline to add in the game. Say they add Combat Expertise in the next patch (ie it wasn't there before), how many players would be upset to not be able to get it?

A lot.


Agreed that 5% is a waste although there are plenty of quests that see only 5% should we redo them all? I want new content and I assume you do as well. Lets cut our losses and move on.

Yes, but the Abbot is a raid. It's slightly different, and I hope you understand why.


It's not 'creating' anything it's making people run quests they don't want to. I run them anyway I try to get 1750 favor on each of my toons. Necropolis is a lot of favor!!

There are a lot of quests that are fun, but their reward is poorly balanced. Whether it's XP or loot.


Freeloading on 1 quest? Well I guess I'm ok with that when I do hound and two Tumbleweeds, Breastplate of destruction. and Lorrik's Necklace drop I've had far more runs with 4+ items dropping that I have with 0 maybe I'm just lucky.

Standing still in reaver and not doing anything is not fun.

As for the loot, it's frustrating to get 0 items. Maybe that is not the case to you, but it applies to a lot of people.

[Drinkin]

While I disagree with the intend of the thread, saying we should not give feedback is simply silly.

Yes, this game is the most awesome game on the market, in my opinion, but it is not perfect. Feedback is impportant, it helps Turbine improving the game.
I agree on all points.



Skill, class levels, stats.

Why? 'cause there are so many good options that are avoided becuase it'd **** too many people off. It'd riddiculously weaken their character and it's a non-respec part of their build. The lack of some respec options limited the enhancements and feats Dev may be incline to add in the game. Say they add Combat Expertise in the next patch (ie it wasn't there before), how many players would be upset to not be able to get it?

A lot.
Here is my problem with this. What you are suggesting I could literally lvl every toon up as a cleric. Then totally redo him from the get go as a fighter. Clerics are a bit more expensive to level but easiest to find a group around the clock. That is too much there has to be a limit. Or a cost that is so great that I would rather reroll.


Yes, but the Abbot is a raid. It's slightly different, and I hope you understand why.
I think that there needs to be harder quests out there to keep the 'uber' population happy. I myself am not uber I have never actually completed the abbot raid but I keep trying and I keep having a great time!


There are a lot of quests that are fun, but their reward is poorly balanced. Whether it's XP or loot.
In a perfect world there is perfect balance and harmony devs are only human so a few quests out there are off... big deal.



Standing still in reaver and not doing anything is not fun.
agreed but looting four chests is fun and I wante my Head of Good Fortune!! If I can't stand being bored for 15 min here and there I will do a different quest and you should too.
As for the loot, it's frustrating to get 0 items. Maybe that is not the case to you, but it applies to a lot of people.
very frusterating I agree but on the other hand over 20 runs by the old method 40 raid items would have dropped and I think over 20 now it would definately be an improvement plus I get that random list to choose from. Still not a perfect system but I for one am ok with the change.
We could argue about whose opinion is right all day or we could just simply agree to disagree.

[Gunga]

Or how when Enraged you can stop, open your backpack, drink a few pots, and then continue your destruction. Oh, don't barbarians HATE magic? When getting huge bonuses to STR, CON, Crit range, Crit Damage, ETC. There needs to be some negative. Same goes for a twirling ranger duel weilding. How can you strike for huge damage when you can't put your weight and strength behind an attack because if you do there is no possible way you could continue to attack 9 more times in a round.

Wow, we've been over this. But let's do it again for the forgetful.

ICRI and II make a lot of sense if the barbarian focuses his training (ie APs) into being accurate when they rage (Tyson, anyone?) The downside, for barbs, is that these enhancements have been spread out among higher levels so that multiclassing isnt really much of an option.

As for the lesser restoration pots, I don't think that they should get rid of the 1 min rage cool down. I do, however, feel that certain named items should remove the rage, like the Manacles of Ceasless Toil, or an item not yet introduced.

[Borror0]

Here is my problem with this. What you are suggesting I could literally lvl every toon up as a cleric. Then totally redo him from the get go as a fighter. Clerics are a bit more expensive to level but easiest to find a group around the clock. That is too much there has to be a limit. Or a cost that is so great that I would rather reroll.

It's all about balancing the cost. The problem is not releveling the character that is a pain, but getting all the progression you had on the character, whether we're talking about favor, raid loot or attuned character. There are ways to avoid the whole "Cleric one day, fighter the other" issue. It's designable.


I think that there needs to be harder quests out there to keep the 'uber' population happy. I myself am not uber I have never actually completed the abbot raid but I keep trying and I keep having a great time!

The 'uber population' doesn't attempt this raid. None one does, except to say they did it once.

The loot is horrible, and it's horribly PuG unfriendly. It takes a close group of individuals that are minded for it.


In a perfect world there is perfect balance and harmony devs are only human so a few quests out there are off... big deal.

Really? A couples off? How many quests do you run on your way to level 16?
Not that many. You'll probably rerun a lot of the same ones.

Yes, they are humans. Yes, they do make mistakes. And honestly, I don't mind them mistakes. As you said, they are human and thus they are bound to mess up one day or another. As we say here, those who never make mistakes are those who do nothing. What is important, however, is to fix their mistakes... at least, when it's a clever thing to do.

Making existing content appealing rather creating new one is a clever thing to do...


agreed but looting four chests is fun and I wante my Head of Good Fortune!! If I can't stand being bored for 15 min here and there I will do a different quest and you should too.
Yes, but wouldn't it be more fun if you'd not be bored for 15 minutes? ;)

As for the loot, it's frustrating to get 0 items. Maybe that is not the case to you, but it applies to a lot of people.
Still not a perfect system
Which is why AD wants to improve it. ;)

[Ryavin]

[QUOTE=Borror0;1847820]While I disagree with the intend of the thread, saying we should not give feedback is simply silly.

Yes, this game is the most awesome game on the market, in my opinion, but it is not perfect. Feedback is impportant, it helps Turbine improving the game.

I agree with you, when the feedback is constructive. Feedback is just that-feedback, not complaining. The OP is complaining in a belligerent manner that will get him/her nowhere. My point was that potential subs read these forums and posts like this simply turn those people off. Any constructive critism is always appreciated, otherwise how do we get better as a population?

[shores11]

Shattergod to be extremely honest with you if I were as unhappy with the game as you I wouldn't play it any longer. Many of the things you mentioned I actually like and is what keeps me playing.

Solo content - Bah, I think it should be kept to a minimum after all this is a D&D based game. Player's depending on other players is what D&D is all about.

Something however keeps you playing. I have a few things I do not like 100% in this game also but I focus on a lot of what I like about it. I have played many other MMO's and compare this game to them when I feel like complaining. This game is by far superior to any other MMO I have played.

[Borror0]

The OP is complaining in a belligerent manner that will get him/her nowhere.

I know. I even said it myself. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1845406&postcount=25) Anyway, Shattergod is banned, so...


My point was that potential subs read these forums and posts like this simply turn those people off.
That's very unlikely, actually. People will try the game, buy it or not.

If the playerbase is hostile, it will turn a player away... but thread like this... not really. The only issue with this htread is that the OP was too negative.

[oogly54]

Wow, we've been over this. But let's do it again for the forgetful.

ICRI and II make a lot of sense if the barbarian focuses his training (ie APs) into being accurate when they rage (Tyson, anyone?) The downside, for barbs, is that these enhancements have been spread out among higher levels so that multiclassing isnt really much of an option.

As for the lesser restoration pots, I don't think that they should get rid of the 1 min rage cool down. I do, however, feel that certain named items should remove the rage, like the Manacles of Ceasless Toil, or an item not yet introduced.

Think you quoted the wrong person Gunga. i didn't metion anythng about being able to train fro ICRI or II. I mentioned I belive a barb should not be able to drink ANY pots in the middle of a rage, NONE. They are enraged with the thurst for blood, not thinking too clearly. And I like your example, Mike Tyson truely doesn't think too clearly when he is enraged.

[CSFurious]

it is time for more server merges IMO

it is getting very difficult to log on & get a quick group during peak hours


My biggest beef is the overpowered nature of Dwarf toons, especially Melee and how the game is catering at the end game to those dwarf melee players.

DDO is still a great game, because the combat is amazing, and I do love the Auction House as well. I would say we're still around in spite of some of the bad design decisions because of that.

For those people who think there's no need for any negative feedback in the forums - the game would be a thousand times worse if there wasn't criticism in the forums. People are criticizing to make the game better (and to vent). If you criticize - you still care, and if you still care...you continue to pay your sub.

If criticizing DDO wasn't allowed the forums would be a wasteland.

Is it time for another server merge?

[Riot]

Mana Pots,
Rez Shrines,
and Rest Shrines.

3 things that make playability just ridiculous.

The change from negative XP is also a contributing factor.
it makes the game dumb. Not challenging.

[Borror0]

Mana Pots,
Rez Shrines,
and Rest Shrines.

Agreed on SP pots.

However, I liked Rez and Rest Shrines... beore they changed the Shrines into reusable...

[Angelus_dead]

True, and not a bad idea. The problem is that it would reduce barbarian's DPS further under ranger's...
Really, the best fix for that is to nerf ranger damage to the D&D rules, and the DDO rules.
1. Not all favored enemies are the same bonus. You don't get +8 damage on all four of them, just the "first favored".
2. The Ram's Might spell gives +3 damage like it says in the in-game text, not more.
3. Restrict the max number of attacks from GTWF to requiring either 19 dex or 15 ranger levels (which wouldn't nerf every ranger build, only some of them)

(Obviously, nerfing features to rely on class level or ability scores that way is one of the changes Turbine could only easily make if they had a good way for players to respec those choices, as I explained in my first post)

[Angelus_dead]

However, I liked Rez and Rest Shrines... beore they changed the Shrines into reusable...
The reusable rest shrines are not a problem, because the reuse cooldown is so large that anyone who waits that long is essentially penalizing his XP because he's doing the quest very slowly.

In effect, it's similar to a suggestion I made when DDO was very new: allow someone to use a rest shrine multiple times, but getting a confirmation dialog box for a literal XP penalty after the first time. (The actual suggestion was a bit more complicated than that, to account for numerous problems it could raise)

The biggest problem from the re-usable shrines turned out to be what happens to specific new quests when the designer assumes shrine re-use is a given, like Coalescence Chamber. That mistake caused too great a disparity between the Normal and Hard modes.

[Borror0]

Restrict the max number of attacks from GTWF to requiring either 19 dex or 15 ranger levels (which wouldn't nerf every ranger build, only some of them

That one is just a pointless nerf, but I agree with your other points.

[Borror0]

The reusable rest shrines are not a problem

I was mostly refering to reusable Rez shrines. As for Rest shrines, I never saw the point in adding a 15 minutes timer on them...

[Angelus_dead]

Yes, but the Abbot is a raid. It's slightly different, and I hope you understand why.
The big reason the Black Abbot is so different is because for 5 months, his face was on the banner at the top of ddo.com. That stuff is important to do right. Keeping the banner while the monster didn't function was nearly false advertising.

[branmakmuffin]

Solo content - Bah, I think it should be kept to a minimum after all this is a D&D based game. Player's depending on other players is what D&D is all about.
What is this big hatred (or maybe it's only dislike) people have to making DDO more solable? Are you so insecure that you feel if people could solo more, they would no longer be "forced" to group with you? If the game had more solo content, that doesn't mean you would have to do it.

[Turial]

What is this big hatred (or maybe it's only dislike) people have to making DDO more solable? Are you so insecure that you feel if people could solo more, they would no longer be "forced" to group with you? If the game had more solo content, that doesn't mean you would have to do it.

No, it doesn't mean he would have to solo but it would mean that a segment of the player base would group much less then they currently do. This results in LFM's that stay unfilled for long periods of time which means players are essentially not enjoying what they would like to do in the game. In the case of LFM's its grouping with people to go on a quest or take down a raid boss. That is a big negative for people who are short on time and want to see content that they may have not seen yet that is off the beaten path.

It also makes some periods of leveling harder. Currently 7-10 is a dead zone. If the game was more soloable then some people simply wouldn't group for that leveling period. This would place players that can't solo (for one reason or another) into quite the bind as the game would have an artificial cap that would then keep the some playeres from being able to see all of it. Remember the game was made to be seen and played. The devs want us to see all the quests and feel the thrill of victory and sometimes the sting of defeat.

[branmakmuffin]

No, it doesn't mean he would have to solo but it would mean that a segment of the player base would group much less then they currently do. This results in LFM's that stay unfilled for long periods of time which means players are essentially not enjoying what they would like to do in the game.
So I should be "forced" to group with this guy so he feels he gets his money's worth. As someone else wrote, I pay $10 a month for me to have fun, not for you to have fun.


It also makes some periods of leveling harder. Currently 7-10 is a dead zone. If the game was more soloable then some people simply wouldn't group for that leveling period. This would place players that can't solo (for one reason or another)
And what might this mysterious "one reason or another" be?


into quite the bind as the game would have an artificial cap that would then keep the some playeres from being able to see all of it. Remember the game was made to be seen and played. The devs want us to see all the quests and feel the thrill of victory and sometimes the sting of defeat.
Nothing you write is very compelling. It all kind of boils down to "people shouldn't be able to solo as much as they might want because they have to be available to group with people who don't want to solo."

"I pay $10 a month for me to have fun, not for you to have fun."

[Borror0]

What is this big hatred (or maybe it's only dislike) people have to making DDO more solable? Are you so insecure that you feel if people could solo more, they would no longer be "forced" to group with you? If the game had more solo content, that doesn't mean you would have to do it.

It's an MMO. If you want to solo, there are games better suited for your needs.

[branmakmuffin]

It's an MMO. If you want to solo, there are games better suited for your needs.
If I want to solo DDO, I will solo DDO. If I want to lobby for more solo content, I will lobby for more solo content.

When you become the final arbiter of what "suits my needs," I'll have you sent for.

"I pay $10 a month for me to have fun, not for you to have fun."

[Borror0]

If I want to solo DDO, I will solo DDO. If I want to lobby for more solo content, I will lobby for more solo content.
Why do you need solo content? I mean, you want to play DDO, not the solo version of DDO.

[Turial]

So I should be "forced" to group with this guy so he feels he gets his money's worth. As someone else wrote, I pay $10 a month for me to have fun, not for you to have fun.


And what might this mysterious "one reason or another" be?


Nothing you write is very compelling. It all kind of boils down to "people shouldn't be able to solo as much as they might want because they have to be available to group with people who don't want to solo."

"I pay $10 a month for me to have fun, not for you to have fun."

If people want to solo there are plenty of ways for it to happen. They just need to play differently and build their characters differently then if they were in a groups. I know plenty of people who solo content. Ghoste, MrCow, and Oddlived to name a few. Heck, Ghoste even gives lessons on how to get better at soloing and the type of mindset one may find useful in taking on harder quests in a solo fashion.

And the idea that you pay $10 a month for only you (non-specific) to have fun is rather nearsighted for a game that was marketed under the DnD name which is typically about groups of adventurers.

[branmakmuffin]

Why do you need solo content? I mean, you want to play DDO, not the solo version of DDO.
Why do you think I want (I don't "need" solo content; none of us "needs" DDO) more solo content ?

Because many (not all) of the people I find myself grouping with are selfish, self-centered, narcissistic and juvenile. I solo as much as I can, then play as I can with the few people I know who aren't zerging loot monkeys and actually like to play as a team, not a haphazard group of power gamers who have the quest memorized because they've run it 100 times. My experience is that a lot of PUGs are really just a bunch of individuals who have banded together because the quest is quicker and easier in a group, not because they care about being part of a team.


If people want to solo there are plenty of ways for it to happen. They just need to play differently and build their characters differently then if they were in a groups. I know plenty of people who solo content. Ghoste, MrCow, and Oddlived to name a few. Heck, Ghoste even gives lessons on how to get better at soloing and the type of mindset one may find useful in taking on harder quests in a solo fashion.
I, too, solo. And I enjoy it. I know exactly the mindset it takes. I don't play as much as some folks do, so my characters aren't as high a level as theirs.


And the idea that you pay $10 a month for only you (non-specific) to have fun is rather nearsighted for a game that was marketed under the DnD name which is typically about groups of adventurers.
What's near-sighted is Turbine not doing what it needs to do to keep the game viable. If being true to some kind of PnP D&D utopia of big, happy groups was the way, they'd do that. If offering more solo content is the way, they'll do that. Saying "solo content is bad" is pointless if the game disappears (and I'm not saying DDO will wither if it doesn't jack up soloability).

[Borror0]

Why do you think I want (I don't "need" solo content; none of us "needs" DDO) more solo content ?

Because many (not all) of the people I find myself grouping with are selfish, self-centered, narcissistic and juvenile. I solo as much as I can, then play as I can with the few people I know who aren't zerging loot monkeys and actually like to play as a team, not a haphazard group of power gamers who have the quest memorized because they've run it 100 times. My experience is that a lot of PUGs are really just a bunch of individuals who have banded together because the quest is quicker and easier in a group, not because they care about being part of a team.

Make a guild for RPers, non-zergers. You'll get into groups.

[branmakmuffin]

Make a guild for RPers, non-zergers. You'll get into groups.
Do you think I'm looking for a solution? I have a solution. It's called "solo when I want to, play with the few reasonable people I know, when we are all available."

[Dirac]

Why do you think I want (I don't "need" solo content; none of us "needs" DDO) more solo content ?

Because many (not all) of the people I find myself grouping with are selfish, self-centered, narcissistic and juvenile.

Really? Selfish, self-centered, and narcissistic? You have bad luck, bro. Most of the narcissists I group with aren't selfish or self-centered at all. :)

For the record, I think Turbine should continue to develop solo content as it has been for the obvious reasons. Having more things for more people to do will help the game grow. I know of no one who never wants to group. However, many, including myself, like to do both. If people have to group more than they want to when playing the game, they will leave because they are not having fun. There is an obvious balance of resources. The majority of it should be put toward more group content. Grouping should always be the highest priority.

[Borror0]

Do you think I'm looking for a solution? I have a solution. It's called "solo when I want to, play with the few reasonable people I know, when we are all available."

Then why are you asking for solo content if you're already satisfied?:confused:

[Angelus_dead]

Then why are you asking for solo content if you're already satisfied?
Note that there are ways in which solo content increases the groupability of a game.

You see, for quests involving X players to work, you must have X level-appropriate player characters online. People are unlikely to log into a game unless they anticipate playing a quest shortly. If X is large, then the chance that enough free characters are available is reduced. Quests involving smaller numbers of players serve as a bridge between "Nobody's On" and "Wow we can run anything".

That's one of the design flaws in the mod 7 high level content: all of it is 12-man instances, so there's nothing for high-level characters to do while waiting for a big enough group to raid. In a corresponding way, allowing low/mid level characters to solo for moderate XP gets them online in the game, and available for joining parties that'll earn them better XP and loot.

[branmakmuffin]

Then why are you asking for solo content if you're already satisfied?:confused:
For the same reason others call for more content in general. Because I want more solo content. Pretty simple answer.

[Borror0]

For the same reason others call for more content in general. Because I want more solo content. Pretty simple answer.
...says the guy saying that new content isn't a priority of his.:rolleyes:

[MJNOR1]

What does being "banned" entail?

[branmakmuffin]

...says the guy saying that new content isn't a priority of his.:rolleyes:
So unless something is a "priority," I can't possibly want more of it.

[Borror0]

So unless something is a "priority," I can't possibly want more of it.

Your stance was that it wasn't desirable, actually.

[Angelus_dead]

What does being "banned" entail?
You would log into the forum and see nothing but a message "You are banned". Depending on how the admins are feeling, it might wear off in a few days, or never.

Note that you'd be banned not only from posting but also from reading, which is both unfair and counterproductive to DDO's commercial goals of customer retention.

[Borror0]

[...] which is both unfair and counterproductive to DDO's commercial goals of customer retention.
Well, some trolls do really make these forums less enjoyable...

[Angelus_dead]

Well, some trolls do really make these forums less enjoyable...
You can't troll if you can't post, but a ban prevents reading as well. A temporary ban would be more effective if the person is allowed to keep on reading (and maybe sending PMs) during the period, and a permanent ban would be less likely to push to an unsubscription if he could still read helpful info on the forums.

[Borror0]

You can't troll if you can't post, but a ban prevents reading as well. A temporary ban would be more effective if the person is allowed to keep on reading (and maybe sending PMs) during the period, and a permanent ban would be less likely to push to an unsubscription if he could still read helpful info on the forums.

Just log off and read?

[Angelus_dead]

Just log off and read?
Parts of the forum are blocked from anonymous users. Also, there's the topic of PMs. If a person is banned there are still probably a lot of non-banned users who'd enjoy PMs for one reason or another.

[Borror0]

Parts of the forum are blocked from anonymous users.
What part?!

[branmakmuffin]

Parts of the forum are blocked from anonymous users. Also, there's the topic of PMs. If a person is banned there are still probably a lot of non-banned users who'd enjoy PMs for one reason or another.
So Turbine views banning as a punishment rather than simply as a way to keep the forums "clean."

Edit: pretty childish.

[ArkoHighStar]

What part?!

The only one I can remember for sure is Risia

[Gunga]

Why do you need solo content? I mean, you want to play DDO, not the solo version of DDO.

Because no one will group with him?

[branmakmuffin]

Because no one will group with him?
You're no one, and you won't group with me.

[ArkoHighStar]

Note that there are ways in which solo content increases the groupability of a game.

You see, for quests involving X players to work, you must have X level-appropriate player characters online. People are unlikely to log into a game unless they anticipate playing a quest shortly. If X is large, then the chance that enough free characters are available is reduced. Quests involving smaller numbers of players serve as a bridge between "Nobody's On" and "Wow we can run anything".

That's one of the design flaws in the mod 7 high level content: all of it is 12-man instances, so there's nothing for high-level characters to do while waiting for a big enough group to raid. In a corresponding way, allowing low/mid level characters to solo for moderate XP gets them online in the game, and available for joining parties that'll earn them better XP and loot.

There are many reasons why solo content is important in an mmo. Myself for example most nights I am either raiding or grouping both in guilds groups and pug's. But some nights and weekend days, I could be called away from the computer at any time to help my wife, look after the baby etc. So during those times I solo, just in case I have to bail. Right now at high levels I am pretty much forced to solo adventure areas, if I want any decent xp, which to me is just a grind. It woudl be great if there were a bunch levele apropriate quick solo quests that I could do for xp and favor in addition to the adventure area grind.

Like it or not casual gamers make up a larger palyer base than hardcore gamers, and for DDO to survive long term you need a mix of content to appeal to both. Solo content might not appeal to the hard core raider but it does to the guy who plays maybe 5-10 hours a week.

[ShaeNightbird]

I want to know why people seem to think soloing and grouping are mutually exclusive concepts. Why? I really don't think groups would die out if there were more solo content. People could do what they want to do, when they want to do it. Group sometimes, solo sometimes. Win win. I seriously don't understand this "all or nothing" attitude I seem to be seeing. :confused:

[tfangel]

There are many reasons why solo content is important in an mmo. Myself for example most nights I am either raiding or grouping both in guilds groups and pug's. But some nights and weekend days, I could be called away from the computer at any time to help my wife, look after the baby etc. So during those times I solo, just in case I have to bail. Right now at high levels I am pretty much forced to solo adventure areas, if I want any decent xp, which to me is just a grind. It woudl be great if there were a bunch levele apropriate quick solo quests that I could do for xp and favor in addition to the adventure area grind.

Like it or not casual gamers make up a larger palyer base than hardcore gamers, and for DDO to survive long term you need a mix of content to appeal to both. Solo content might not appeal to the hard core raider but it does to the guy who plays maybe 5-10 hours a week.

I know i prefer to group, but there are nights where i can go an hour without getting a group, and it would be nice to be actually progress doing something other than putzing around. Other times the only groups available are elitist jerk types or those that expect you to have it all memorized and heal yourself (being a wiz who has been away since the cap was 10, i have forgotten most of the old quests). I also play LotRO, and would be happiest if both games took the best of each. I'd love DDO to have the open world (but also the teleports to quests areas, yeah, i want my cake and will eat it too, heh) with quests i can solo out there too. The henchman system may help big time with my desires while waiting for groups though, so i'll have to wait and see.

[Dexxaan]

OK....here we go.....again.

The Muffin Man is in rare form.....to the point that he´s for but really against, wants more solo content but doesn´t need it......

We need to rename Bran as the "Make-a-Waffle-Man".

Please stop trying to reason with him.... I´ve ben patient and decided not to barge in and warn the thread of the futility of even trying to establish what the disagreement is really.:D

Borr and Gunga... I know you two know better than reply to the Waffle-Man´s Posts.

And for sure a few more will learn.......the Bran MakeaMuffin Fan Club grows steadily thread after thread.


Good luck if you decide to try and fight at his level......

[Aesop]

It's not much so far now, since they are giving faster attack speed to rangers and paladins...



This would not fix anything. The best idea I have seen so far is to not make it affect procs.

I like the increase Crit Multiplier by 2(1st tier) and 3(2nd tier) on confirmed natural 20s only

so a rapier on a Nat 20 would be a x5 multiplier

and a Pick would be a x7


but only when you roll a Natural 20

[Gunga]

OK....here we go.....again.

The Muffin Man is in rare form.....to the point that he´s for but really against, wants more solo content but doesn´t need it......

We need to rename Bran as the "Make-a-Waffle-Man".

Please stop trying to reason with him.... I´ve ben patient and decided not to barge in and warn the thread of the futility of even trying to establish what the disagreement is really.:D

Borr and Gunga... I know you two know better than reply to the Waffle-Man´s Posts.

And for sure a few more will learn.......the Bran MakeaMuffin Fan Club grows steadily thread after thread.


Good luck if you decide to try and fight at his level......

I've had the muffin on ignore for a couple of weeks and it's been refreshing. I only respond when I see her quoted garbage in another reasonable person's futile response.

In an effort not to be trollish, I have read Arko's and AD's posts and I agree with them. There are times where I can't dedicate a straight 2 hours, and some solo quests in the 8-13 area would really be helpful. I also think that some old friends who've had to leave the game because of time restraints might actually come back if given the opportunity to jump on vent and roll a couple solo quests for 1/2 hour or an hour here and there.

[Drinkin]

So Turbine views banning as a punishment rather than simply as a way to keep the forums "clean."

Edit: pretty childish.


You're no one, and you won't group with me.

/giggles I guess we're all children at times!!