DDO Official Relaunch Planning

[GlassCannon]

Once the level cap reaches 20 and more new content is opened(at least 2 more town areas other than Stormreach, and each has level appropriate instances to teleport to from said towns), a DDO Official Relaunch would likely bring players back, if advertised properly. If we can get some official word back on this topic the player base can begin Word-Of-Mouth advertising for it.

Let's revive this thing eh?

[Rog]

Lets us be honest op. How many aldults go to wow becouse they have no idea what else is out there? What do they find when they get there? how many if they knew would happy leave wow? For a game where they they knew they would fit into there own age group ,and not have to deal with the hords of kids? I know i grew up in the nintendo age we love to game its been in us all are lives and there is a huge player base in its 30's the orginal Nintendo was what mostly fanatsy based games (ftw). i KNow when nintendo left the fanasty world and went to a little kids world i was disapointed big time then i leared they was bought out by saga that explained it. now MMO domenate the game world and wow is king why? is it a great game some would other say its easy but the truth is they have a great marking team in this world that all you need. we buy junk then complain about it ,but we buy it anyways. how many people still buy toys made in china? ask yourself that one.
lunarsong

[Aesop]

It would still be nice to see a little DDO love from Turbine and all that jazz. I mean I hear about LotRO and Ashron's Call for doG sake why do I always feel like this game is underrated and underappreciated

A big "Hey common back we got it right now"

wouldn't be too bad


Aesop

[Osco]

Well, according to MMOGchart.com, Bruce ranks LotRO at ~150,000 and DDO at only 45,000. However, AC looks like it's about 15,000.

I'd say that Turbine is more worried about pleasing the Tolkien estate than WotC. Also, LotRO is the newer game, and has a more mainstream IP thanks to the movies. And now they're working on DC Universe Online, aren't they? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there are only one to three people at Turbine running both AC and DDO while LotRO and DCO see all the investment in manpower.

[ArkoHighStar]

Well, according to MMOGchart.com, Bruce ranks LotRO at ~150,000 and DDO at only 45,000. However, AC looks like it's about 15,000.

I'd say that Turbine is more worried about pleasing the Tolkien estate than WotC. Also, LotRO is the newer game, and has a more mainstream IP thanks to the movies. And now they're working on DC Universe Online, aren't they? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there are only one to three people at Turbine running both AC and DDO while LotRO and DCO see all the investment in manpower.

no DC Universe online is being done by someone else, speculation the new IP is Harry Potter

[Rog]

lack of marking is the game killer for us.
i would hate to see us go farther by the way side. but is that are fate i think it be a shame the devs have spent way to many hours pouring there blood into the game to let it die becouse there partners dont see the need to market the game.

[Aesop]

I hope GenCon gives a us a little



"For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it. Too long I've been starving to death and haven't died."

[Dexxaan]

The people I have met that have left DDO permanently for WOW, LOTRO, AOC and Vanguard.....I´m glad they did. (Very few exceptions)

The people that went to these games and came back...are the kind that take a look at the greener grass on the other side, go check it out, and get driven back due to the fertilizer stench. :D

[Issip]

I definately like the idea of DDO advertising to their demographic - which is the mature gaming market. Now that I am in DDO I can't go anywhere else because of the general lack of player maturity in other games, it sure feels like going backwards. All the mature players that have tried other games have come back quick, the only mentionable people I know who have left DDO have done so for their job or family.

Kids who play WoW and the target audience for most online games don't like DDO because they can't PWN everyone and call them a *** and be thought of as UBER LEET for doing so - when the online crowd is no longer battling confusing puberty issues such behavior ceases to amuse everyone, and so these players run back to WoW as fast as they can.

If marketing could sieze on this and find a way to target an older crowd of 25-55+ year old gamers and push to get advertising directed not only to let their potential customers know they exist, but also that they will fit in here as the servers are overwhelmingly populated by mature gamers.

I think they could have a much stronger following considering how good this game is.

[MrWizard]

Once the level cap reaches 20 and more new content is opened(at least 2 more town areas other than Stormreach, and each has level appropriate instances to teleport to from said towns), a DDO Official Relaunch would likely bring players back, if advertised properly. If we can get some official word back on this topic the player base can begin Word-Of-Mouth advertising for it.

Let's revive this thing eh?


I can see the level cap...

but two towns and new dungeons other than raids...? Where did you hear this?

[baylensman]

Why not start a little grass roots of our own right now?
Talk it up with others at work, at play what ever, let them know about the 30 day free trail and download.
Make you own bumper stickers "Forget tibet Free arlos DDO.COM" "Take your Warforged to work" "release your inner Barbarian" ect
Post in other forums that you frequent (if its allowed in the rules)

Just a few idle thoughts. Maybe you all have some more?

[Coldin]

It would be a great idea for them to do a big advertising push once level cap gets to 20. Frequently one of the complaints I hear about DDO is how low the level cap isn't 20, which I think is a bit of a turn off to old PnP players.

Though really, I just wish they'd do some more advertising in general. I haven't even seen a banner ad for DDO since Mod 3.

[Hordo]

The only thing I'd like to see happen is that Turbine actually remember that their demographic for DDO grew up with the Pen and Paber game, and many of us from the pre-2nd edition crowd, too. I don't think that a nod to development for new areas/quests or whatnot would be a bad investment of their time especially when they realize that the name of the game is DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS online...trust me, you get some of the 'perks' that LOTRO has and bring them here it will funnel thousands of players into this game, each paying for an account. A little dev love can make a whole lot of money, and that is what they really want now isn't it?

[szaijan]

It takes time to fully appreciate the DDO, especially when coming from a WoW-like MMO. The low level quests at Normal difficulty do not show off the power of MOB collision detection, and it usually takes awhile to appreciate the lack of HP/Mana regen outside of rest shrines. Most WoW players consider that a nuissance, at least initially. Many don't care for the lack of true respec as well. Most importantly, this game is solo-hostile. All those items add up to needing to play the game for awhile to truly appreciate its strengths, and be willing to give up on soloing, for the most part. Many of those I've tried to get into DDO simply don't get past level 3 for the reasons stated.

IMO, what would really help is more and more interesting low level content. The Good Blade quests just dont cut it for drawing new players into the world.

[Monkeytoe]

Store presence might help.
If there are 15 different boxes of WoW in colorful display across Best Buy's entire top shelf of MMORPG's and, uh... zero boxes of DDO... Gee no wonder more people buy WoW.

DDO doesn't market to the D&D demographic, they take that demographic for granted.

[cdbd3rd]

Why not start a little grass roots of our own right now?
Talk it up with others at work, at play what ever, let them know about the 30 day free trail and download.
Make you own bumper stickers "Forget tibet Free arlos DDO.COM" "Take your Warforged to work" "release your inner Barbarian" ect
Post in other forums that you frequent (if its allowed in the rules)

Just a few idle thoughts. Maybe you all have some more?


If we could get some DDO bumper-stickers, they would certainly be on the back of my Jeep -- right next to the "If I Wanted a Hummer, I'd Ask You For One" and "Go Topless." :D

[parvo]

Lets us be honest op. How many aldults go to wow becouse they have no idea what else is out there? What do they find when they get there? how many if they knew would happy leave wow? For a game where they they knew they would fit into there own age group ,and not have to deal with the hords of kids? I know i grew up in the nintendo age we love to game its been in us all are lives and there is a huge player base in its 30's the orginal Nintendo was what mostly fanatsy based games (ftw). i KNow when nintendo left the fanasty world and went to a little kids world i was disapointed big time then i leared they was bought out by saga that explained it. now MMO domenate the game world and wow is king why? is it a great game some would other say its easy but the truth is they have a great marking team in this world that all you need. we buy junk then complain about it ,but we buy it anyways. how many people still buy toys made in china? ask yourself that one.
lunarsong

Rog, check your debuffs. You might want to see one of the Silver Flame priests. Looks like you're suffering from the Touch of Kargon spell.

[Deathseeker]

I actually think what makes DDO different is also what will limit its drawing power. DDO is unique in its complex character building, with so many paths and choices. While this is why many of us love it, it also limits many new players, especially with the lack of a total respec. When you are new, get to level 6, realize you totally gimped your player by multiclassing or choosing the wrong initial stats, it can be frustrating to the point of quitting and going elsewhere vs starting over.

I suggest a full respec available to mid and low levels would really help get new players over the hump. Feat swaps are ok, but give a 250 favor respec token good for level 6 and below.

Additionally, the need to group can be a turn off. Many people are self-concious to group until they are confident in what they are doing. I think Turbine did a great job in adding a ton of solo friendly content (slayer, solo option quests, etc), but unfortunately so many people tried the game out prior to this and left, they may be gone for good.

I totally agree, market the heck out of the more twitch oriented playstyle, unique character builds, and tons of unique/named loot. Capitalize on the fact that everyone ends up with the same gear and builds in the other games, but DDO let's you be Uber in your own way.

I also disagree that attracting old PnP players is the key. If you are into D&D, and play MMO's, then you have most likely tried DDO by now. I think it's the other masses that need to be drawn in, but let's CONVERT THEM to D&D vs converting DDO to be what they are used to.

[Vizzini]

/whips Marketroid.


lack of marking is the game killer for us.
i would hate to see us go farther by the way side. but is that are fate i think it be a shame the devs have spent way to many hours pouring there blood into the game to let it die becouse there partners dont see the need to market the game.

[Leyoni]

Let's suppose for the moment that the information at MMOGchart.com was accurate when published. That indicates 45k subscriptions 18 months ago.

Subscriptions today are probably lower and active players lower still.

Turbine likely won't spend huge resources for a game that isn't popular. It isn't a knock on AD&D or DDO, just a simple market driven reality.

So, what does that mean for the rest of us?

Personally, I'd like to see some more server consolidation so that there is more opportunity to play. I would expect somewhat slower development of new content but that would be alright if there was more chance to play.

Of course, I know server consolidation isn't a popular idea.

[VirieSquichie]

Let's suppose for the moment that the information at MMOGchart.com was accurate when published. That indicates 45k subscriptions 18 months ago.

Subscriptions today are probably lower and active players lower still.

Turbine likely won't spend huge resources for a game that isn't popular. It isn't a knock on AD&D or DDO, just a simple market driven reality.

So, what does that mean for the rest of us?

Personally, I'd like to see some more server consolidation so that there is more opportunity to play. I would expect somewhat slower development of new content but that would be alright if there was more chance to play.

Of course, I know server consolidation isn't a popular idea.

Server consolidation would make it easier to find groups in the lulls like now between content updates.

It would paralyze (no saving throw!) the servers every time new content was released and people came back in droves to check it out.

Proof? Look to the Welcome Back Weekends and the first weekends following each new content release. The servers can't handle the rush, and Turbine apparently can't scale up the servers for those short times. Or at least, not enough.

[frugal_gourmet]

So they make about $5 million/year gross off the game? I think that still leaves some room for a decent development team.

[Monkeytoe]

DDO is unique in its complex character building, with so many paths and choices. (Deathseeker)

The potential for complex character building certainly exists. Cool multiclass character building was one of the things that I was really looking forward to in DDO. That the practical results of building complex and unique multiclass characters leave players somewhat wanting I think is pretty evident in that a splash of Rogue in anything, a couple of levels of Ranger in a Barbarian or Fighter, or a level of Sorcerer in a wizard or Cleric pretty much exhaust the complexity you're likely to find actually gaming.

I remember reading an article in which the author suggested that DDO seemed to design to really challenge the "Holy Trinity" concept of the Tank, Mage and Healer. After having played the game for a few months I gotta say, either the author hadn't actually played the game or he was just plain lying. In any party I've been in there are always at least one Tank one Nuker and one Healer... The other three slots might be filled out by pretty much anyone, even three first level Rogues, because the Mage probably took a level of Rogue so he could disarm the traps.

Rather than making the game richer or more complex, multiclassing (as implemented) pretty much just solidifies the position of certain builds as being necessary and any other builds as being irrelevant or (more likely) completely useless to the point of comedy.

[moorewr]

If we could get some DDO bumper-stickers, they would certainly be on the back of my Jeep -- right next to the "If I Wanted a Hummer, I'd Ask You For One" and "Go Topless." :D

They wont sell us T-shirts, let alone bumper stickers, and they wont even give us high rez DDO logos to make our own. It's just.. well.. corporate. :(

[GlassCannon]

So they make about $5 million/year gross off the game? I think that still leaves some room for a decent development team.

Gross is pre-bills.

$5 mil a year isn't much when the bills are $4.996 mil a year. Of course, this is an exaggeration. You need to look for the Net.

From what I see, the Dev Team is rather small.

[GlassCannon]

It would still be nice to see a little DDO love from Turbine and all that jazz. I mean I hear about LotRO and Ashron's Call for doG sake why do I always feel like this game is underrated and underappreciated

A big "Hey common back we got it right now"

wouldn't be too bad


Aesop

Aye, but the TWEAKING!!! They still need to iron out a lot of bugs in DDO before it goes up against WoW again. That and a bunch of content needs to be added to compete with the days upon days of running past things in WoW. You can't have a boring experience without running for 90 minutes just to get to a raid area. By the way, DDO needs to stop that. Having to fight things to open a teleport to a major town area(Meridia, make the teleport work like Eremic Quall to Chief Ungurz...) is a plus, but having to run them EVERY TIME you need to get to the town is a major negative.

A Relaunch that we could get behind would be good for this game, but needs to be backed officially. Even if we get the word from one of the main team that says "Not for another couple years at least," we at the very least have notification that they are interested but not ready just yet.

[Aesop]

Aye, but the TWEAKING!!! They still need to iron out a lot of bugs in DDO before it goes up against WoW again. That and a bunch of content needs to be added to compete with the days upon days of running past things in WoW. You can't have a boring experience without running for 90 minutes just to get to a raid area. By the way, DDO needs to stop that. Having to fight things to open a teleport to a major town area(Meridia, make the teleport work like Eremic Quall to Chief Ungurz...) is a plus, but having to run them EVERY TIME you need to get to the town is a major negative.

A Relaunch that we could get behind would be good for this game, but needs to be backed officially. Even if we get the word from one of the main team that says "Not for another couple years at least," we at the very least have notification that they are interested but not ready just yet.


I'm not really interested in competing with WoW. They can keep most of their Player Base as I wouldn't want to group with them anyway. However I would like to see a little love because this game has more potential then any other game I've played. Things do need


I think a Relaunch When 20 goes live would be a great thing. But going 20 would need a bunch of Content added by before or coinciding with the release.

LOTS More Feat and Spells
All Core Classes (ie Druid)
All Core Races (ie Gnome Half Elf and Half Orc)
At least 1 Eberron Race (Probably Shifter)
At least 30 new quests (make that 50 with 15-20 released with level 20)

Aesop

[Leyoni]

Server consolidation would make it easier to find groups in the lulls like now between content updates.

It would paralyze (no saving throw!) the servers every time new content was released and people came back in droves to check it out.

Proof? Look to the Welcome Back Weekends and the first weekends following each new content release. The servers can't handle the rush, and Turbine apparently can't scale up the servers for those short times. Or at least, not enough.

This is the problem, as I see it. It is the lull time that loses players.

You don't notice the lull in other games because there are so many people playing. Here it is discouraging and people start looking for something else to do. The other games grab people's interest and then they are gone.

So, maybe a middle ground. Risia is the test server, so not a good location. It is also not available to everyone (it is in theory but downloading it separately is a pain for some). So what about a consolidated server where everyone's character exists that is part of the normal server set (maybe bring back an old server for this)?

Mirror the characters from their home server and mirror them back just before major updates/events. We already know that mirroring characters over to Risia takes place. We already know that Turbine can move characters from server to server. So, this should not be that hard to do once every 3 months or so.

What it lets us do is have a bigger player base during the lulls helping to keep the community from shrinking even more. It also lets us go back to our home server for events and releases to keep the pressure off the consolidated server.

[Monkeytoe]

This is the problem, as I see it. It is the lull time that loses players. (Leyoni)

If you're saying that people come in and check the game out for a new release and then quit because they use up all of the content and get bored... I think you're wrong.

I've been playing for however many months now, and there's still plenty of content left for me, anyway. Maybe some more low level content, different beginning spots for example, I mean why would a Drow, a Dwarf and a Halfling all start on the same little Island? A three hour cruise?

But I don't think the amount of content is the problem, I think that the problem is that new players expect the game to be (simultaneously!) more balanced and more like old school D&D... That's a not a trivial task, but its something that can be done by people who believe in doing it. And I think that the returning players *hope* that the silly imbalances and inexplicable departures from what they expect D&D to be like have been addressed and somehow improved.

Then both parties discover that their expectations have not been met and they go back to playing NWN or illicit Baldur's Gate mods on private servers.

[Winded]

Just a theory mind you but knowing the relationship of the license and how WotC has inherent rights to "meddle" with the development direction, why not put the pressure on WoTC?

Why not flood their forums with requests to market this game, their name sake. Why not blame WoTC for the departures from PNP that DDO has. Are they not in a position to strongly influence the direction of this game?

Ive been thinking this for a long time. Im imagining a bunch of pony tail wearing Super geeks , bantering and arguing on the direction of this game, and denying otherwise cool development ideas. They at least should probably share the blame for lack of development and content in general.

It was WoTC that sold the license to Atari and have let it fail, once again beyond shear age of the license, depleting the overall value for future resale of the DND licence.