Human Monk: Qstaff or Unarmed?

[Osco]

Since the smoldering wreckage of my last thread looks like downtown Rotterdam after the Luftwaffe finished with it, I'm going to try again.

Keep in mind that it will take me a while to hit 1450 (or is it 1750?) favor to unlock 32 point characters (I'm at 125-ish now :p ), so we will assume that unarmed monk techniques will be working as intended by the time I make this character.

My intent is to make a human monk, using either quarterstaff or unarmed. I already have a +1 quarterstaff and +1 wrappings banked in anticipation. What build and feats would you recommend, and what resources would you suggest on learning about monks from the person that doesn't really know how they work? From what I gather (and please forgive me for using City of Heroes as a reference), ki works like rage does with the brute class in City of Villains- you generate it by attacking, and it dissipates rather quickly when not in combat, but instead of being a combat damage enhancer, it is a type of quasi-mana for powering special moves.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack my own thread here, so to reiterate: How would you build a human monk, and would you go qstaff or unarmed, or switch between the two? What feats and skills would you use and why?

Thanks!

[Brandiwyne]

...this thread may degenerate even faster than the last one. :)

In any case, you are sure to receive ample feedback. By the way, it's 1750 favor to unlock 32 point builds.

I myself tend to use unarmed against most mobs, excluding undead, constructs, and red-named; I have a decent wisdom (32) and use stunning fist with the Elegant Crane enhancements to render mobs helpless (bursting of enfeebling handwraps) and build up lots of ki, which in turn allows more special attacks and situational use of Quivering Palm. There's a fellow named Ramses that espouses this type of build, and I find that it suits my playstyle very well.

There are equally persuasive arguments to follow other build paths; whichever you choose, you need to plan carefully. Be aware, that only unarmed attacks allow you to make use of the stunning fist and quivering palm attacks; however, all other monk attacks can be used with monk weapons.

[Angelus_dead]

Browse the monk forum, look at posted builds and also the responses to those builds. Maybe read the Risia monk thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=147227), although that's quite long and somewhat obsolete. Don't bother reading the Finisher Move list (simple know that pos-pos-pos, fire-pos-fire, and wet-pos-wet are all that matter).


Keep in mind that it will take me a while to hit 1450 (or is it 1750?) favor to unlock 32 point characters (I'm at 125-ish now :p ), so we will assume that unarmed monk techniques will be working as intended by the time I make this character.
What "technique" do you think isn't working right? The only thing that jumps to mind is the numerous Handwrap magic effects that don't function. That's fairly important, but not enough to change your whole weapon style over (it basically just means you should carry a Transmuting staff even if you mainly use fists).


Anyway, I don't want to hijack my own thread here, so to reiterate: How would you build a human monk, and would you go qstaff or unarmed, or switch between the two? What feats and skills would you use and why?
Abilities: high values for str and con (about 16), moderately high values for dex and wis (about 14), and low int and cha.
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Stunning Fist, Stunning Blow.
Skills: only Concentration is really crucial for a monk. A human gets 3 more skills, though, so take Jump and Spot and whatever else.

Weapon choice: At low levels, when your BAB isn't much over 5, use fists. Once your BAB is better turn on Power Attack and use the staff more often. At high levels, the only reason to prefer fists is so you can use Stunning Fist, which combined with Stunning Blow gives you two rapid chances to conk a monster.

[Aesop]

I made a Q-Staff Human Monk that I'm liking quite a bit so far... but I've yet to get some clarification on a few Feats... mostly the THF feats and if and how they affect Quarter Staff Fighting. Some say that they don't at all and while I believe at one point in time that was true... certain factors have swayed me to the point that I am no longer sure. Unfortuanately I have been unsuccessful in the areana of getting a Dev to give me a straight answer.

However I will tell you that I am liking the Q Staff Strength based Fire Stance Monk... I actually splashed 3 levels of Pally in there for Wand Use (even though it makes you uncentered... I'd call this a bug myself) Fear Immunity even more insane Saving throws and a few other little perks.


That said a Human Unarmed fighting Monk could have potentially the highest DC (provided that the Dwarven and Warforged Tactics lines don't affect the DCs of Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm...) though for unarmed I like my Halfling Water Dex Monk with a 1rogue splash... just has some fun times with the little scamp


Aesop

[Angelus_dead]

How would you build a human monk, and would you go qstaff or unarmed, or switch between the two?
I'll give you the raw info here.

Both staff and fist start as 1d6 20/x2. But as you advance in level, fist improves to 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, and eventually 2d8. (On average, 2d8 is 5.5 higher than 1d6)
Fist has more attacks per second.
Fist adds 100% of your strength mod to damage, staff adds 150%.
Fist adds +5 damage with Power Attack feat; staff adds +10.
Numerous magical effects that work on staves don't work on handwraps.
The Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm attacks only work with fists and not any weapon. (SF is fairly good, QP is not)
Once per 5 attacks, a staff gets an extra attack for 20%-40% normal damage on all nearby enemies.

[Detton]

This is essentially the same thing i'm interested in knowing for sure, except that i'm much closer to the 1750 favor needed then you are. Just a couple hundred more to go, if memory serves me correctly. I've burnt through all the low-level quests already on elite and the only things left that are lower level are the Necropolis tombs, which... ugh... Heh.

I'm also trying to keep pace with a friend, who is roughly the same favor as I am, so I don't get into as many groups. We do duo alot, though, and we've done a LOT. (Bring me the Head of Ghola-Fan was fun, and we're going to try Slavers of the Shrieking Mine tomorrow sometime)

Other then watching this thread for some tips and advice for my own good, here's the basics of what I have planned for myself (subject to change)

Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 16

Pretty flexible place to start for stats, once i've nailed down the direction I want to go in myself. I really like stunning fist, so I am probably going the unarmed route with a higher wisdom. What i'd like to do is nail down a strength-based unarmed monk, with a decent enough wisdom to land stunning fists reliably on elite content.

Stunning Fist, Power Attack, Dodge, possibly mobility/spring attack since i'll be moving around alot. (I know that from how I play my 28-point build, who has just recently hit 16 =) ), and some toughness feats. Etc etc. I'd really like combat expertise (maybe whirlwind too), but the sacrifices might be a bit rough. I don't have a lot of tomes. Maybe if I could secure a +2 int tome, I could find a way to raise int to 11...

Hope you got some ideas and/or information from my ramblings. I feel this is a pretty balanced approach that should be good for either direction and you can tweak it from there based on your own, or others', advice and ideas.

[Lithic]

Once per 5 attacks, a staff gets an extra attack for 20%-40% normal damage on all nearby enemies.

Almost 100% sure you get the glancing blow on attack 3 and 4 assuming you dont have any 2handed fighting feats. Normal 2handers get them at attavk 1 and 4.

[Angelus_dead]

Almost 100% sure you get the glancing blow on attack 3 and 4 assuming you dont have any 2handed fighting feats. Normal 2handers get them at attavk 1 and 4.
Staff gets it on 3rd, others get it on 1st. They only get 1 per 5 attacks unless you invest in other feats.

[feynman]

Since the smoldering wreckage of my last thread looks like downtown Rotterdam after the Luftwaffe finished with it, I'm going to try again.

Well, Borror and A_D are on my ignore list, so this thread should be safe :)


Keep in mind that it will take me a while to hit 1450 (or is it 1750?) favor to unlock 32 point characters (I'm at 125-ish now :p ), so we will assume that unarmed monk techniques will be working as intended by the time I make this character.

My intent is to make a human monk, using either quarterstaff or unarmed. I already have a +1 quarterstaff and +1 wrappings banked in anticipation. What build and feats would you recommend, and what resources would you suggest on learning about monks from the person that doesn't really know how they work? From what I gather (and please forgive me for using City of Heroes as a reference), ki works like rage does with the brute class in City of Villains- you generate it by attacking, and it dissipates rather quickly when not in combat, but instead of being a combat damage enhancer, it is a type of quasi-mana for powering special moves.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack my own thread here, so to reiterate: How would you build a human monk, and would you go qstaff or unarmed, or switch between the two? What feats and skills would you use and why?

Thanks!

Assuming that you wait until they fix unarmed, anything we tell you now will be sheer speculation. As it stands now, unarmed has the lowest DPS of the monk options, but it allows the use of extra-special attacks, while, IMO, staves give the highest, with TWF kamas not far behind.

Ki can be used as a combat enhancer, through elemental and other special attacks, but it does relatively little damage at later levels; ideally, the finishing moves would make up for it, but the current finishers are lackluster, at best. Again, though, this may (and hopefully will) change by the time you reach 1750 favor.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about banking any gear until you are much closer to your goal. The small stuff takes up bank slots (and you will see more +1's than you can think about and still stay sane), and the good stuff doesn't drop for a while.

As for learning about monks, the best way I can think of is to group with them ask ask how they are doing as you level up your main; you will see some interesting progressions, as things that worked at lower levels become less and less useful at higher levels. You see this in all classes, but most of the common pitfalls are well-known for the older archetypes.

Just to clarify a bit, here, though; you should have a selection of each kind of weapon, regardless of your build. I use the big sticks, mainly, but I carry several sets of kamas and handwraps for different occasions; granted, the only ones I use on a regular basis are the vorpals and the construct banes, but I like to use handwraps against oozes and the like, just to save on repairs.

[Aspenor]

Since the smoldering wreckage of my last thread looks like downtown Rotterdam after the Luftwaffe finished with it, I'm going to try again.

Keep in mind that it will take me a while to hit 1450 (or is it 1750?) favor to unlock 32 point characters (I'm at 125-ish now :p ), so we will assume that unarmed monk techniques will be working as intended by the time I make this character.

My intent is to make a human monk, using either quarterstaff or unarmed. I already have a +1 quarterstaff and +1 wrappings banked in anticipation. What build and feats would you recommend, and what resources would you suggest on learning about monks from the person that doesn't really know how they work? From what I gather (and please forgive me for using City of Heroes as a reference), ki works like rage does with the brute class in City of Villains- you generate it by attacking, and it dissipates rather quickly when not in combat, but instead of being a combat damage enhancer, it is a type of quasi-mana for powering special moves.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack my own thread here, so to reiterate: How would you build a human monk, and would you go qstaff or unarmed, or switch between the two? What feats and skills would you use and why?

Thanks!
Why is the question limited to only quarterstaffs and unarmed? is this a flavor choice?

[jkm]

if you go unarmed take cleave. it is an incredibly quick attack compared with cleave with a qstaff which is sllllllloooooowwwwwww (looks cool though). i have spring attack and basically kite mobs like a ranging ranger. sweep in, cleave, retreat, sweep in, stun, finish them off, retreat. basically it takes the heat off my still lowish ac (33 at level 7 waiting on +2 int tome to take CE).

my stats are (human) 15/13/14/11/16/8 - if you want all the 2wf feats you can trade around to kick dex up to 15.

[Brandiwyne]

Also as an FYI, you will need a wisdom of 32 to have a DC of 29; 34 gets you to 30, which is the neighborhood I would recommend for "reliability" at elite end game content. Even so, with both attacks being fort saves, there will be some mobs which will be highly resistant to it. I have better success with Vale content on elite than, for instance, I do with Madstone on elite. On the other hand, you could get by with lower DC's running Cabal or Crucible on elite.

I haven't checked myself, but MrCow may have the saves for some of these mobs listed in his catalog.

[Osco]

Why is the question limited to only quarterstaffs and unarmed? is this a flavor choice?

Yes. I don't know if they have bo staves in the game, but I figured qstaff was close enough. I just got into my mind to make a bo fighter named Derek. ;)

[Svetelana]

QS here, for the time being. I have yet to see any type of greater bane on a handwrap. All I am seeing is smiting, maladroit and some low number W/E. My finishing moves do something like 28 fire damamge. Quiving Palm takes lots of Ki and although it's cool, you need to build 50 Ki. While building your Ki (hence not using special attacks which cost 10-15) you're not landing tons on damage and it's likely that some do not think you are using your Ki.

I prefer using bane or Elemental QS (+2 Holy Giant Bane, +4 Holy Drag, +4 Flame Burst PG, +4 Holy PG, +5 Holy Burst etc). These are not hard to find and do consistant damage with a 32 Human STR build.

Just my experience so far. I sometimes start out using wraps but, always find myself pulling out the trusty QS....

[jkm]

i have some greater bane handwraps, they don't work.

[Angelus_dead]

if you go unarmed take cleave. it is an incredibly quick attack compared with cleave with a qstaff which is sllllllloooooowwwwwww (looks cool though).
Incorrect. Both unarmed and staff cleave take 1500 milliseconds.

The unarmed cleave looks faster, but that is an illusion, because the character stops moving before the "animation" is over. The total time you must wait after starting the cleave and returning to making normal attacks is the same, just unarmed forces you to stand around longer.

By the same token, the unarmed Cleave and Great Cleave both take the same amount of time, although Great Cleave is a bigger and longer animation.

[Svetelana]

No doubt.




i have some greater bane handwraps, they don't work.

[jkm]

Incorrect. Both unarmed and staff cleave take 1500 milliseconds.

The unarmed cleave looks faster, but that is an illusion, because the character stops moving before the "animation" is over. The total time you must wait after starting the cleave and returning to making normal attacks is the same, just unarmed forces you to stand around longer.

By the same token, the unarmed Cleave and Great Cleave both take the same amount of time, although Great Cleave is a bigger and longer animation.

geez. if you have autoattack on that may be so. however, when you ahve spring attack and are moving you can cleave and move back and not "stand around doing nothing".

[Osco]

Oh, the reason I was looking at Qstaff is that I hear that DR is a big concern as you level up, and it would seem that unarmed and TWF would have trouble breaking through high DR.

[Angelus_dead]

Oh, the reason I was looking at Qstaff is that I hear that DR is a big concern as you level up, and it would seem that unarmed and TWF would have trouble breaking through high DR.
That's incorrect. Most creatures have just 5-10 DR, which can be beaten by most any attack, and you'll almost always be able to use a Transmuting weapon to bypass DR completely. The only common monster will unbypassable DR/- will be elementals, and those should be killed with constitution damage anyway.

[Angelus_dead]

geez. if you have autoattack on that may be so. however, when you ahve spring attack and are moving you can cleave and move back and not "stand around doing nothing".
Simply moving backwards hardly counts as doing something. But if you do view it as a useful way to spend time, then unarmed cleave is no better than staff or kama in that regard. They all take the same time, and you're all equally free to move your feat during and after the animation.