A humble crafting petition/request

[slimywarts]

Allow shroud crafting materials to drop in many other (maybe all) quests at much reduced drop rates (1-5% of normal maybe).


This would reduce Shroud grinding, make other high level quests slightly more popular again, make "loot runs" of all sorts of quests the fun activity it used to be with the many quests it used to be done on.

I think the Shroud is outrageously fun, no doubts; however, allowing raid material to drop (once again, at a much lower rate) in many other (or all quests) will remove some of the motivation to grind it.


If the drop rate is low enough, it would do little harm and add a lot to making other quests appear in the LFM, even if only a little more. Plus, high speed loot runs (Maze of Madness anyone?) would tend to give a crafting material occassionally foran added perk NOT to do the Shroud all the time.

End the Shroud LFM monopoly on raid materials! :)

Sign if you agree.

[Stormanne]

I would like the drop rate to increase within the shroud. I've ran 6 completions with no medium or large ingredients dropping at all for me.

[Bunker]

Shroud GreenSteel Items whether weapon of accessory are quite valuable. It should take effort to obtain ingredients and to craft.

I'm warming up the Shredder now. Lets just toss in the petition before we start all this signing nonsense. /flips switch <buuuzzzzz>

and Stormanne, I would double check your pulls. I believe it is impossilbe to do the Shroud without getting at least 1 Medium and 1 Large. Six runs and no ingredients, sounds a bit over stated.

[vainangel]

I got 4 or 5 large/med items from one complete run, I noticed everyone else got something as well. Some people got a bit more lucky and got 2 or 3 in one chest.

[slimywarts]

Any quest takes some effort, compounding that with MUCH (I said 1-5&#37;, so make it point one instead, but make it so they scattered all over Xen'drik) lower drop rates, leads to the conclusion that they still would take some to obtain.

Also, I didn't suggest to change the Shroud at all.

/shredderoffbecauseofitsuttersillinesstodiscussion

[darkrhavyn]

Shroud GreenSteel Items whether weapon of accessory are quite valuable. It should take effort to obtain ingredients and to craft.

I'm warming up the Shredder now. Lets just toss in the petition before we start all this signing nonsense. /flips switch <buuuzzzzz>

and Stormanne, I would double check your pulls. I believe it is impossilbe to do the Shroud without getting at least 1 Medium and 1 Large. Six runs and no ingredients, sounds a bit over stated.

Well hes not the only one...some people are amazingly lucky..I am with smalls...but I have never seen a large ingredient on any char Ive run through Shroud....and I have only seen one or two drop for anyone in the group. Sorry but I agree with the OP...I think the ingredients should drp in the other quests too...It would make doing them again worthwhile once your capped and xp doesnt matter again.

[Borror0]

Well hes not the only one...some people are amazingly lucky..I am with smalls...but I have never seen a large ingredient on any char Ive run through Shroud....and I have only seen one or two drop for anyone in the group.

Have you ever completed part 5 and looted the two chests? There is always a large dropping from the left chest.

[bigpapataz]

The shroud is an easy run run. Rarely a failure. most groups under an hour. some 30min speed runs. I do not want raid loot droping outside of the raid. Now if they want to add a few in chest in other raids I am cool with that. But I do not want to see someone first run in the shroud ever crafting a teir 3 item from stuff he picked up while farming gianthold relics.

[Uska]

Umm no I wish they had never done the items at the power level we have now and need to have that come any faster no matter how low the precentage is .

[Lithic]

I would like the drop rate to increase within the shroud. I've ran 6 completions with no medium or large ingredients dropping at all for me.

You must have forgotten to loot the chests then. You are GUARANTEED 2 medium and 1 large ingredient per completion assuming you loot the chest.

So if you want ingredients, loot the chests next time k?

[Bladededge123]

Dropping in every single quest? no.

But in end game quests, maybe letting just small or mediums drop in some of the subterranean chests? Do poeple -ever- form groups to go farming the rares and such down there? I know +2 tomes drop in those chests (seen it happen in the chest outside visions, at least a while back when it first opened) but. The subterranean are very high end. The hound is doable in your typical pug but, unless somethings shifted greatly, Visions is currently a very nasty with a 'typical' raid group (ala minimum planning, possible conflict between ideas possible ect ect) And indeed, without a tier 3 item or two..or three, yeah good luck being extremely useful. What would be wrong with making it easier for casual players who might only have one or two 16th level characters from being able to get to tier 1 or 2 without having to grind the shroud. I

Letting ingredients of some kinds drop in other places would go along way to making those more appealing and doable, certainly. I would -not- advocate letting anything above medium ingredients drop anywhere else, and then maybe only in the subterranean quests/explorer area chests. Would need to be carefully thought over but. Shroud crafted items are already becoming very much needed to be able to properly take on the challenges of the new content. Imagine in mod 8 when the developers have to assume everyone who will be taking on the new end game content have at least one tier 3 item, otherwise the raids will simply be too easy for the guilds/players and such who do the raids the most or ect.

It might not be the right time too let ingredients drop in locations besides the shroud. But it isn't an idea that should be discounted. Imagine if in mod eight we get a raid like the shroud or at least a way to make tier 4, 5 6 or ect items. Such a raid would be completely inaccessible to those of us who don't have tier 3 items, and wouldn't likely get them for months, putting us well behind the elite player base and widening the cap of power or ect. That might work in a game like WoW where there is plenty of content, but in DDO where content is limited, it should be as accessable to all players, causal and elite, as possible. Adding ways to be able to access new material (say in the example where tier 4 items or ect become possible) Then having multiple ways to gather the materials would let casual players do it much faster. If it comes at a point, say when mod 8 is out, where all the elite players already have every tier 3 item they would ever need or ect, then it doesn't really negate the work they did to acheive them, given they would have had access to items the causal player base hadn't for months and months.

Isn't a good idea just yet maybe, but may be worth considering in the future.

[slimywarts]

Blade, you inspired me to be more specific in what I had in mind.

Imagine a hierarchial pattern for crafting material drops. By the way, to allow a true crafting system that isn't grind oriented like most MMO's, a universal drop system is a good way to beat the grind that I'm sure many of us loved about DDO largely lacked before the Shroud brought on full-scale grinding.

Possible pattern:



QUEST LEVEL DROPPED MATERIALS DROP POSSIBILITY
------------- --------------------- -------------------
1-8 husks, petals, twigs, etc. 1 in 500 chests
9-12 Small ingredients 1 in 1000 chests
13-14 medium ingredients 1 in 1200 chests
15-16 large ingredients 1 in 1500 chests


These drop rates seem sufficiently low that it would mean a tremendous amount of looting would have to be done to achieve any ingredients compared to a normal shroud run.

I am on vacation so my numbers may be off on the chests, but this should rougly demonstrate what I mean:

10 Maze of Madness runs x 6 characters x 4 chests = 240 chests opened

It's a Level 15 quest (I think) so the chance for ONE large ingredient to drop for the ENTIRE party in that roughly 150 minutes of looting at a pretty intensely quick rate is .16&#37;.

That is a small enough chance when looked at from the individual's perspective to not be worried about but on the global level to allow more ingredients on the Auction House. AH prices would diminish from increasing supply and the player base would stop this increasng feeling of Shroud burn-out.

I know some feel differently but usually in MMO world...

SEVERE GRIND -> PLAYER BURN-OUT -> LOST SUBSCRIPTIONS

Grind intensely furthers the addiction process to MMO's and DDO did a GREAT job of avoiding that for so long. The suggestions above would change NOTHING about the grind if players enjoyed it (running the Shroud would, BY FAR, still be quickest way to crafted items), but allow some to ignore the Shroud much more often due to increased AH availability, prices, and player trading.


Hopefully this now sounds less like pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking and more concretely plausible.

[Stormanne]

You must have forgotten to loot the chests then. You are GUARANTEED 2 medium and 1 large ingredient per completion assuming you loot the chest.

So if you want ingredients, loot the chests next time k?

Well, all snarkiness aside, I did loot the chests. And did not get any med. or large ingredients. I wasn't the only one in the group that this happened to either. Several people made the same statement that you just did, that we were "GUARANTEED" as couple of med. and a large. Yet the loot logs clearly showed that I, along with others in the raid, did not.

[slimywarts]

I still think this should be seriously discussed. We are becoming an MMO much like any other MMO is one respect that is repugnant:

TOO MUCH GRINDING.

[Borror0]

I still think this should be seriously discussed. We are becoming an MMO much like any other MMO is one respect that is repugnant:

TOO MUCH GRINDING.

Because one thread wasn't eniough, you had to necro this one too? /sigh

[slimywarts]

Yep, cause once I referenced it I realized grinding will kill this game I adore. So sorry it got you all hot and bothered deep in your gullet.

[Borror0]

Yep, cause once I referenced it I realized grinding will kill this game I adore. So sorry it got you all hot and bothered deep in your gullet.

I still don't see the point to necro it... you referenced it. That was enough. Anyway...

[sirgog]

You must have forgotten to loot the chests then. You are GUARANTEED 2 medium and 1 large ingredient per completion assuming you loot the chest.

So if you want ingredients, loot the chests next time k?

Not true.

You can open the main chest in part 5, and instead of a Large Ingredient, you can get one of a Charged High Energy Cell or a Large Splintered Horn.

Noone considers those to be larges.

[Bunker]

I still think this should be seriously discussed. We are becoming an MMO much like any other MMO is one respect that is repugnant:

TOO MUCH GRINDING.

Grinding is a PLAYER'S CHOICE. No player needs a GreenSteel items to complete a quest. To have a strong build, a player does not require GS items. Now take note that I said require. If a player chooses to work towards the goal of having one or even multiple GS items, the game doesn't make you do this, the player that chooses does.

If you feel there is too much grinding, then stop.

As for the fact that this thread was dead last month, the topic is always popping back up. IMO, keep the ingredients where they are.

[nakedfatguy]

Well, all snarkiness aside, I did loot the chests. And did not get any med. or large ingredients. I wasn't the only one in the group that this happened to either. Several people made the same statement that you just did, that we were "GUARANTEED" as couple of med. and a large. Yet the loot logs clearly showed that I, along with others in the raid, did not.


maybe once, i could buy that....but you said 6 times! i call BS :rolleyes:

[slimywarts]

When the weapons and items made from crafting are so grossly overpowered compared to almost all weapons and items pulled from a normal quest chest, AND you tend to like playing with all sorts of people (i.e. PUGing) and not just an insulated group (i.e. exclusive guild play), then:

1) you GRIND to maintain equivalency with others so as to be of equal value in many of the ways the vast majority of the player base perceives it, or;

2) you make some statement like, "if you don't like grinding, then stop" which really dismisses the issue without really discussing the OBVIOUS grinding the game is becoming because of the Shroud's exclusive dropping of ingredients; thus, you have answered nothing but thrown the problem back on the player rather than accepting it was poor design.

[Aesop]

The only quests I could see this viable in are VoD and Hound Raids

maybe only VoD

Aesop

[Aranticus]

let me refine the request

the OP says: allow larges to drop in other chests, so we can pull more scales

done

/not signed

[Daedalis]

Well, all snarkiness aside, I did loot the chests. And did not get any med. or large ingredients. I wasn't the only one in the group that this happened to either. Several people made the same statement that you just did, that we were "GUARANTEED" as couple of med. and a large. Yet the loot logs clearly showed that I, along with others in the raid, did not.

I've run the shroud to complete several times with no larges or mediums falling for me either. So to say that a completion guarantees 2 mediums and 1 large isn't right. But I have to say that it's usually the larges that don't drop at all. I always get smalls, 80% chance of getting mediums, and 30% chance of getting a large. But I'm not one that does the shroud every 3 days either. So your not alone in this Storm.

[GrayOldDruid]

I got 4 or 5 large/med items from one complete run, I noticed everyone else got something as well. Some people got a bit more lucky and got 2 or 3 in one chest.

Unless you mean 4 or 5 COMBINED large and mediums, I'm calling BULLdung on that. I've had a few runs where I pulled two Larges, a rare couple where I pulled three all together if you count Charged high energy cells, but never four actual ingredients. I've had runs where there was only one ingredient and a few where there were absolutely no large ingredients. 80% of the part 4 chests drop zero ingredients. 80% of the time the part 5 chests drop only one.

From reading a LOT of posts on this, there is a great disparagey in character loot pulls. We have a LOT of people who have craptastic loot pulls, little to no large ingredients pulled. Then, on the other hand, we have a few people who seem to have no trouble at all pulling all kinds of fantastic loot and large ingredients. I'm starting to wonder if they have a at-creation character luck number assigned. Ranging from 1 - 10 and that secret number figures into your loot pulls. Graywalker's number would be around 4 or 5. Not horrible, but not anywhere near as good as some. Pulled my first +2 tome as an end-reward last night and amused the heck outta the guild by my ecstatic reaction. (Naturally it was the same stat he used the Gianthold favor tome for, but can surely pass it on to alts.)

It also appears that as my raid completions go up, my luck number is slowly moving up too. Getting some fairly good stuff now... still SUX on the Large Ingredients ( going into my second month of trying to get three large Scales ).

[Bombalo]

So you dont want grinding...quick name one MMO that has less grinding than DDO. Grinding is what keeps games like DDO alive. If you didn't have to grind for loot, favor, ingredient for crafting people would blaze through the content 10 times as fast as they do now. IMO DDO has the least grinding of any major MMO's on the market right now (which very well could be the reason so many people are yelling for new content).

[Altarboy]

I have like 100 runs across 6 toons.
I have NEVER not gotten any larges nor, have I seen anyone else not pull at least 1
(counting charged high energy cells and horns).
In fact I have several times pulled 4(no horns or cells)...
so either you are very very unlucky
or I have to call BS on this as well

[manfredshw]

Increasing the named loots drop rate, as well as other loots.
RAID need increasing, full list should be granted after 20 40 60th run.

Is this game already become a grinding game?

Ask yourself, how many times run you got your icy remeint,
how many times run you got your titan belt?
how many times run you got your chatering ring?

...

this game is already a grind game.

How many hit point an elite mobs have. with their cr. this is just ridiculous. and DDO become a WOW LITE.

[slimywarts]

let me refine the request

the OP says: allow larges to drop in other chests, so we can pull more scales

done

/not signed


Umm no, I didn't say that at all. Go back a bit and see the proposal I had that had some percentages in it. And why does it matter if we have the LEAST grinding? A minimum of a bad situation does not negate the fact that if an ABSENCE of a situation is possible, that it should be attempted. Just because all MMO's go this grinding route doesn't mean another way isn't possible. DDO's quests are quite fun, just treasure needs to balanced across ALL quests (along with XP, for that matter), then we would have dozens upon dozens of quests to run all the time, not the three that are being run on-stop. And the Shroud ingredients dropping, once again for those with bad reading comprehension skills, at a MINIMAL rate will help alleviate at least the grind in that raid due to increased GLOBAL supply of ingredients on the AH while affecting INDIVIDUAL players in a negligible way (including my supposedly nefarious need to start thisthread to collect large scales- nice try, chap. Two points for random sniping :) ).