Raid Timer Idea

[Tat2Freak]

Would it be possible to run the raids while on timer and just not have the chest generate raid loot for us during that 2 day 18 hr period?

The reason I ask is I primarily run one character and I would love to help people out in raids, just because I like running the raids and it seems a shame to not be able to participate because of a chest at the end.

Just a thought I had while looking at all the raids I cant join because Im on timer (and not because I want loot, because I want to run the raids).

[ArkoHighStar]

the only problem with that is that part of the reason many groups fill to 12 is to help maximize the chance of an item dropping and being put up for roll by someone who doesn't need it.

[MissErres]

the only problem with that is that part of the reason many groups fill to 12 is to help maximize the chance of an item dropping and being put up for roll by someone who doesn't need it.

Not necessarily. I know that I do not run raids in the hopes that someone else will pull something that I can have. ;)

[ArkoHighStar]

Not necessarily. I know that I do not run raids in the hopes that someone else will pull something that I can have. ;)

no but a raid group leader may do so. Many guild runs that are just a few men short get filled for that reason. I mean lets face it, you don't need 12 people to do the some of the raids, but the change to the raidloot system encourages raid leaders to fill the group to maximize the chances of having more raid loot drop.

[Lithic]

You also should not be able to get items transfered to you that others pull.

I could see a problem with this even with the mentioned limits since many of the raids would make excellent loot runs if they could be farmed for the non-raid chests.

[orcbanian]

Also this would increase the number of completions for 20th end rewards. People would get +3 tomes from the reaver multiple times a week.

[Ranmaru2]

Also this would increase the number of completions for 20th end rewards. People would get +3 tomes from the reaver multiple times a week.

Not really...I know plenty of people with 2-5 toons with 20-80 reaver completions who've yet to see a +3 tome on their completion list or even see the Head of Good Fortune on the completion list. These tomes have the rarest percentage of any on the reaver's list, but the shroud does give +3 tomes and that'd be where the main worry would be...Of course they could always have it be:

4 choices of Large ingredients (given in quantities of 5)
1-3 +2 tomes
cleansing essence
1-3 +3 tomes (lowest spawn percentages)

that'd balance out this system that's being proposed. Which, isn't a bad one...I don't care about the loot run bit of it, I like the social bit of it.

[Rog]

Also this would increase the number of completions for 20th end rewards. People would get +3 tomes from the reaver multiple times a week.

Man what are you smoking? i have ran the reaver 76 times on one toon i have yet to see a +3 tome yet.
lunarsong

[orcbanian]

I'm just saying that with no completion timer, people would spazz out on it to get 20th completion intervals in no time. Say you can get 2-3 runs an hour for people that play 3 hours a day that's 6-9 completions a day. That creates a possibility for 42-63 completions a week which means 2-3 20th end reward tables. Add in people who play more than 3 hours a day or can complete the Reaver 4 times an hour, and you get gross sums going to 168 completions a week for players who play 6 hours a day and can complete the Reaver 4 times an hour. 8 end reward tables a week (only in extreme cases, but we all know people can get that extreme about it). Not ALL people would get multiple +3 tomes a week, but some would.

Now, true some people have bad luck, but some don't. My first 20th got me a +3 Con tome and my guildy got a +3 Dex tome from the raid chest on his 2nd Reaver run ever. The point is that this would grossly increase the amount of +2 and +3 tomes as well as the amount of raid loot floating around. There is a reason raids have timers and that reason is to eliminate this kind of abuse and make truly good gear something valuable and exciting to find, rather than what it has become in some other games: commonplace.

If you want to do a raid with a friend, the best thing to do is let your timer run out and then sync up with your friend so you both have the same timer going. My timer for the Hound is the same as most of my guildies since we normally run it together. If you want to help people out, build more toons so you can run one when others are on timer. But if you don't want loot and don't need xp, you could just let people run it without you. Most players are capable of completing it with the group they get. Best advice is to just ignore the LFMs you're on timer for and just run something else.

[Missing_Minds]

Emm... problem is that running raids with friends for the social aspect is part of which this game is based on.

However, others are correct about the timer and completions.

The major issue is the shroud and those quests which require re flagging.

So, I propose the following compromise.

1. IF it requires re flagging (von, dq, etc.) you must reflag before running again.
2. In the player options, add in an additional "no raid timer/no completion" option. I use that text verbatium.

What this does is treat all raid possible areas/quests chests and end reward as being ransacked and raid completions do NOT count to towards your over all raid completion count. I believe that also if you are ransacked you can not pull shroud ingrediants, if you can this must be addressed as well as the raid loot of the shoud is based on those pulls.

Now, to make this a little more friendly for the user, is that if you are not on timer, the next time you run it, it IS treated as a standard raid run, you get full loot, raid completion count, etc.

I would make an additional change to the quest selection/entrance window that would give the warning that you are on timer and ransacked on all chests when you are on timer and the option is selected.

[Impaqt]

If you dont want the loot, Its very easy to recall out of Titan, Reaver, Shroud, and even the Hound raids, and Possible top get out if your A Caster/Cleric/High UMD Toon with a Word of Recall or Teleport spell (Or get a Mask from Ghola Fan) of the others before completion too.

[Sue_Dark]

Ok, so allow "between-timer" runs. Just no loot in chests (no passing either) and the betweens DO NOT count toward 20-multiples. The only way for count to go up is to be on the quest. That keeps the count as is, satisfies the loot run concern and allows those that want to run more often the freedom to do so.

Edit- No loot at all, period. If you want to run off cycle, you get the satisfaction of completion and helping others, thats it.

Edit 2 - Thinking on it a little more, allowing between runs would allow for things like training runs. Where you work on teaching the less savy a bit about raiding or get with other guilds, etc and see how they do things. New tactics are sometimes good and can even be better than the olde stand-by. However, (doom, tho improperly depicted) off cycle runs could also lead to more exploits, as more people have even more time to run the content more often. This certainly is a down-side to the idea.

[Impaqt]

ALso, Use your time that you "Cant" raid to Level up some Alts.....

I really dont understand the "I wanna Raide All the time Every Day with one Toon" argument at all.

[Sue_Dark]

ALso, Use your time that you "Cant" raid to Level up some Alts.....

I really dont understand the "I wanna Raide All the time Every Day with one Toon" argument at all.

While I agree, I can sort-of see it. They have a favorite character or limited play time or some other reason that is viable to them. I dont see it as a real issue as long as it is some form of option we can choose, it doesnt effect the loot at all (other than being the equivilant loot of an 11-man instead of 12, for example). No xp would be a fine addition as well.

I know there have been times when friends have asked me to join them, but I was on timer (with multiple characters). I'd have taken this option then, if it were available.

[Impaqt]

While I agree, I can sort-of see it. They have a favorite character or limited play time or some other reason that is viable to them. I dont see it as a real issue as long as it is some form of option we can choose, it doesnt effect the loot at all (other than being the equivilant loot of an 11-man instead of 12, for example). No xp would be a fine addition as well.

I know there have been times when friends have asked me to join them, but I was on timer (with multiple characters). I'd have taken this option then, if it were available.

We have people in guild that have 2 or 3 of essentially the exact same toon for this reason. and not "Power Gamers" either.. They just like to raid withus and realy like playing a specific character....

[Aspenor]

Ventrilo is a wonderful tool. No need to be in the same party....

[Ringos]

Not to be negative, but it seems like it would take a lot of work to change it from the current setup.

[juniorpfactors]

Would it be possible to run the raids while on timer and just not have the chest generate raid loot for us during that 2 day 18 hr period?

The reason I ask is I primarily run one character and I would love to help people out in raids, just because I like running the raids and it seems a shame to not be able to participate because of a chest at the end.

Just a thought I had while looking at all the raids I cant join because Im on timer (and not because I want loot, because I want to run the raids).

there is your problem, you run 1 toon, so you could get to the 20th list in 4 days, while others have 5-9 capped toons waiting on timers... timers will be going nowhere

jrp

[Uska]

Not to be negative, but it seems like it would take a lot of work to change it from the current setup.


Yeah it seems like a whole lot of work for little gain or a gain for really only a few who might use it sometimes.

[sirgog]

I'd like the idea, save for one little problem.

The Stormreaver raid would become a ridiculous loot run for just the three non-warded chests. These chests drop up to ML15 items (i.e. the same as the Shroud on Hard), and everyone on the server would pretty much ransack them each week.


I think it would be an improvement on the current system, but could only be managed if the number of chests in the Reaver was dropped to one warded, one standard. (Other raids would require no changes). And, of course, the raids when not on the quest (i.e. the no raid loot runs) would not count towards your 20th completions, as people have said.

[Amabel]

The Stormreaver raid would become a ridiculous loot run for just the three non-warded chests. These chests drop up to ML15 items (i.e. the same as the Shroud on Hard), and everyone on the server would pretty much ransack them each week.

Ahhhhh, the good old days. ;)

[Tat2Freak]

1. I dont care what you think I should do with MY character/paid account, if you have nothing but negative input here(Impact) roll-out out the thread now.

2. I'm not talking about racking up completions to get 20th lists nor am I talking about looting any of the side chests (think someone mentioned all chest being sacked to the point of nothing pulled--I like it)

3. What I am talking about is, yes running with less powerful friends to help them learn, be a guiding hand to a friend that wants to give a try at leading a raid, etc, etc. (So basically anyone thats thinking about anything negative, DONT, thats not what this is about.)

[Aranticus]

1. I dont care what you think I should do with MY character/paid account, if you have nothing but negative input here(Impact) roll-out out the thread now.

wrong, what you are suggesting here will change the raid mechanics drastically if implemented. at that point of time, its not just your $$$ that will be affected. our $$$ will be affected as well

2. I'm not talking about racking up completions to get 20th lists nor am I talking about looting any of the side chests (think someone mentioned all chest being sacked to the point of nothing pulled--I like it)

this is a good idea. to bypass the timer, no chests, no completions, no rewards, no xp is to be awarded

3. What I am talking about is, yes running with less powerful friends to help them learn, be a guiding hand to a friend that wants to give a try at leading a raid, etc, etc. (So basically anyone thats thinking about anything negative, DONT, thats not what this is about.)

as in 2, bypassing is fine with me, as long as certain conditions are met so that it will not lead to exploitations

[Tat2Freak]

as in 2, bypassing is fine with me, as long as certain conditions are met so that it will not lead to exploitations

C he is telling me to go play other characters or make new ones, etc, etc...thats where im talking about dont worry how many characters I have or how I use my account.

[binnsr]

C he is telling me to go play other characters or make new ones, etc, etc...thats where im talking about dont worry how many characters I have or how I use my account.

Impaqt wasn't attacking you personally; he was making a suggestion on how you could get what you want within the current system - without allocating (already scarce) Dev resources to a change that would 1) be exploited no matter the safeguards, 2) be beneficial to a select few players, and 3) detract from both new Content creation and existing bug fixes.


I can understand where Impaqt is coming from - I have 2 intimitanks and at one point had 3 rogues. I also have several guildies with multiple clerics that are nearly identical.

[Tat2Freak]

Impaqt wasn't attacking you personally; he was making a suggestion on how you could get what you want within the current system - without allocating (already scarce) Dev resources to a change that would 1) be exploited no matter the safeguards, 2) be beneficial to a select few players, and 3) detract from both new Content creation and existing bug fixes.


I can understand where Impaqt is coming from - I have 2 intimitanks and at one point had 3 rogues. I also have several guildies with multiple clerics that are nearly identical.

it is personal, we went back and forth for the better part of the first year of DDO...you just dont know the history with me and a few of the "Good Guys"...:D


p.s. hes also one of the last people on the forums that needs champions to speak for him...