Exotic Basher!

[Uproar]

In Next Mod Please! I am tired of all the pierce and slash hype. I just want to smash something -- FLAT!

I recommend a sledgehammer, but I'll leave it up to your imagination if you got better.

[Verdant_Force]

galapagos turtlehammer

[Angelus_dead]

I recommend a sledgehammer, but I'll leave it up to your imagination if you got better.
By the D&D rules, a Maul is an exotic weapon just like a Bastard sword. Both of them can be used in two hands without unusual training, or in one hand if you have the feat. But for unknown reasons, DDO decided to make one of them two-hand martial and the other one-hand exotic, instead of having both of them be both, which would be correct. (And which would be better game design, because presently the Bastard sword has little reason to exist)

[MrCow]

I'll leave it up to your imagination

My imagination is telling me to pick up Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Cow. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Questgiving NPC is a close 2nd. I might even consider Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Cask of Old Sully's Ale (wielding this weapon may randomly take large amounts of durability damage and cause living creatures to make a DC fortitude check or become drunk).

[branmakmuffin]

By the D&D rules, a Maul is an exotic weapon just like a Bastard sword. Both of them can be used in two hands without unusual training, or in one hand if you have the feat. But for unknown reasons, DDO decided to make one of them two-hand martial and the other one-hand exotic, instead of having both of them be both, which would be correct. (And which would be better game design, because presently the Bastard sword has little reason to exist)
Bastard swords would seem to have more reason to exist than mauls. Mauls are a 2H weapon that do 1d10, 20x2. Pretty feeble compared to greatswords, great axes and falchions. It makes no sense because medium-sized 1H bashing weapons do 1d8 like their slashing counterparts, so why shouldn't a maul to up to 12 like its slashing counterparts.

But I tell you the weapon that really makes no sense is the kama. Identical in every way to a sickle, but is exotic? Was it waiting around for 2 years with no one using it simply for Monks to come along? The light hammer is also pretty dumb as a martial weapon that is worse than a light mace. I mean a warhammer does 1d8 like its simple counterparts, and has a x3 crit. Why doesn't a light hammer do 1d6 like a light mace, but with a x3 crit? That would justify its "martialness."

[dameron]

Bastard swords would seem to have more reason to exist than mauls. Mauls are a 2H weapon that do 1d10, 20x2."

They do 1d10x3.

[boldarblood]

Bastard swords would seem to have more reason to exist than mauls. Mauls are a 2H weapon that do 1d10, 20x2. Pretty feeble compared to greatswords, great axes and falchions. It makes no sense because medium-sized 1H bashing weapons do 1d8 like their slashing counterparts, so why shouldn't a maul to up to 12 like its slashing counterparts.

But I tell you the weapon that really makes no sense is the kama. Identical in every way to a sickle, but is exotic? Was it waiting around for 2 years with no one using it simply for Monks to come along? The light hammer is also pretty dumb as a martial weapon that is worse than a light mace. I mean a warhammer does 1d8 like its simple counterparts, and has a x3 crit. Why doesn't a light hammer do 1d6 like a light mace, but with a x3 crit? That would justify its "martialness."

Maul is 2nd best 2 Hander, just shy of the great axe. Faster swinging and its a 1d10x3 crit, making it better than the GreatSword and Falchion imo.

[captain1z]

They do 1d10x3.

my pali uses all bswords


1d10x2


I ll hunt down the ddo stats http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Bastard_sword <------ here they are

(as a side note if khopeshs are 1d8x3 and bswords were 1d10x3 both require exotic pro..... why would so many khopesh users be running around and bswords selling for so little)





edit - It also seems you were refering to mauls (oopppps) nvm carry on

[Angelus_dead]

But I tell you the weapon that really makes no sense is the kama. Identical in every way to a sickle, but is exotic? Was it waiting around for 2 years with no one using it simply for Monks to come along? The light hammer is also pretty dumb as a martial weapon that is worse than a light mace.
The kama is fine, the light hammer needs to be improved. The fact that spending a feat on kama proficiency is a bad idea is not a problem, because the weapon itself already serves a function nothing else does.

[branmakmuffin]

The kama is fine, the light hammer needs to be improved. The fact that spending a feat on kama proficiency is a bad idea is not a problem, because the weapon itself already serves a function nothing else does.
It only serves a function nothing else does because the rules arbitrarily give it a reason to exist. There is no reason a sickle could not be centered, thereby eliminating entirely the need for a kama. Nothing about a kama's stats make it "exotic." Every other exotic weapon, except for shuriken, have something about them that makes them better than their closest martial or simple counterpart.


Maul is 2nd best 2 Hander, just shy of the great axe. Faster swinging and its a 1d10x3 crit, making it better than the GreatSword and Falchion imo.
I suppose the numbers cruncher will tell you what's better, 2d4 18-20x2, 2d6 19-20x2 or 1d10 20x3, so it doesn't have to be a matter of opinion.


They do 1d10x3.
Oops. Thanks.

[Deathseeker]

Unless I'm missing something, the bashing line in general needs some love. It either needs a weapon with a 18-20 crit range, or something with a x4 crit multiplier. As it stands, what is the rationale to ever specialize in bashing, other than possibly if you are so geared at Weighted that's your only desire? Maybe you just hate skeletons that much?

[dameron]

The kama is fine, the light hammer needs to be improved.

Absolutely, in PnP the light hammer has the same missile range increment as a spear and twice that of a throwing axe making it at a bit more versatile than a light mace (whether that's worth a martial classification is debatable).

A simple fix would be to make it 1d4(x4), effectively a "blunt light pick". Failing that 1d6(x3) would be ok too.

[branmakmuffin]

Absolutely, in PnP the light hammer has the same missile range increment as a spear and twice that of a throwing axe making it at a bit more versatile than a light mace (whether that's worth a martial classification is debatable).

A simple fix would be to make it 1d4(x4), effectively a "blunt light pick". Failing that 1d6(x3) would be ok too.
1d6 20x3 would make it the martial counterpart to a light mace, as a war hammer is to a heavy mace and morningstar. That would get my vote as it pleases my sense of symmetry.

[Tanka]

It only serves a function nothing else does because the rules arbitrarily give it a reason to exist. There is no reason a sickle could not be centered, thereby eliminating entirely the need for a kama. Nothing about a kama's stats make it "exotic." Every other exotic weapon, except for shuriken, have something about them that makes them better than their closest martial or simple counterpart.
In DDO, correct. In PnP, a monk can flurry with a shuriken, throwing more than his normal attack bonus would allow.

[Yaga_Nub]

....because presently the Bastard sword has little reason to exist)

Now A_D, the Bastard sword's mother has spent a great deal of time and effort to let it know that it wasn't a mistake and that it's father really does love it but just can't be around for now.

[NullWolf]

The Gnome Hooked Hammer (Piercing and Bludgeoning Damage) {And of course, Gnomes... :D)
Dire Flail (Bludgeoning)
Spiked Chain (Piercing) {And just because I like using it in PnP}
Orc Double Axe (and my half-orcs!!! :D I've got a slot waiting for him...)
Siangham (or let the Monks use Daggers without losing center...)

Reasonings behind Kama being an exotic weapon? ...because DnD has a "Western" culture, meaning anything that would have been commonly found in an oriental setting is exotic. (Kama, Siangham, Shuriken etc...)

I imagine that because of coding difficulties in making Mauls / BSwords switchable between 1-H and 2-H they chose to "set" Mauls 2-H and BSwords 1-H. (If this is the case, they should do something a little extra for the Mauls / BSwords to make up for not being able to switch...)

Other possibilities would be to add a "Uncentered Weapon" type of feat that would allow monks to be centered even if using non-monk weapons.

[branmakmuffin]

Reasonings behind Kama being an exotic weapon? ...because DnD has a "Western" culture, meaning anything that would have been commonly found in an oriental setting is exotic. (Kama, Siangham, Shuriken etc...)
Still doesn't answer why most exotic weapons add something that their closest non-exotic counterparts don't have. There is no reason sickles could not be centered. I believe kamas are based on agricultural sickles anyway. It's no answer to say "They're exotic because they're exotic." We can say "khpoeshes are exotic because they have better crit numbers than a longsword, Dwarven axes do more damage than battle axes, repeating crossbows 'repeat,' etc."


Other possibilities would be to add a "Uncentered Weapon" type of feat that would allow monks to be centered even if using non-monk weapons.
That sounds like a good idea.

[NullWolf]

Still doesn't answer why most exotic weapons add something that their closest non-exotic counterparts don't have. There is no reason sickles could not be centered. I believe kamas are based on agricultural sickles anyway. It's no answer to say "They're exotic because they're exotic." We can say "khpoeshes are exotic because they have better crit numbers than a longsword, Dwarven axes do more damage than battle axes, repeating crossbows 'repeat,' etc."

Normally the Exotic weapons are ones that are not commonly used. (You're right that Kama's are an oriental agricultural implement, the oriental equivalent to the sickle as a matter of fact. Just like the Nunchaku is based off the oriental equivalent of a flail.)

Dwarven axes are exotic because they're a "racial" style weapon (which is why dwarves w/martial weapon get them free).

Khopesh is exotic because its a weapon from ancient Egypt I believe... (this one is more along the lines of why the Kama is exotic)
I mean, how many of the "average" warrior really knew how to wield one of these properly (unless they were trained in their use):
Khopesh (http://accel23.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/1/07/01/68/khopesh-2.jpg)

Repeating crossbows... they're just relatively uncommon and/or complex enough that not everyone is going to know how to use one properly.

But still, this being an MMO, they really SHOULD allow either sickles to be centered, or give kamas a little something extra to make them "worth" the non-Monks taking them... (Then again, since monks get them free, may not really be a reason for non-monks to take...)

On that note too... Sickle (http://moonkissd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/sickle.jpg) is radically different from Kama (http://www.plymouth-ju-jitsu-club.co.uk/pages/kama_l.gif)

[Tanka]

If the argument is "they're foreign so they're exotic!", then explain kukris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukri).

Oh, and longswords don't really exist in real life. They're really called broadswords. ;)

[branmakmuffin]

Normally the Exotic weapons are ones that are not commonly used.
Bastard swords were, I believe, commonly used by Westerners. The reason they're exotic is presumably "game balance," i.e., if you want a 1-H weapon that does 1d10 damage, you have to pay for it somehow.


But still, this being an MMO, they really SHOULD allow either sickles to be centered, or give kamas a little something extra to make them "worth" the non-Monks taking them... (Then again, since monks get them free, may not really be a reason for non-monks to take...)
I've said it before: so kamas have been languishing for 2+ years waiting for Monks to come along and give them a raison d'etre? Seems pretty lame to me. Elegance in game design means (among lots of other things) not having equipment that makes no sense. There's no reason for a heavy mace to exist given that morningstars are cheaper and lighter and otherwise identical; there's no reason for kamas to exist given that sickles are identical and easier to learn to use

[Tanka]

Morningstars are supposed to do both piercing and bludgeoning damage, just as daggers should be able to do piercing or slashing.

[NullWolf]

If the argument is "they're foreign so they're exotic!", then explain kukris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukri).

Oh, and longswords don't really exist in real life. They're really called broadswords. ;)

I always wondered why the kukris wasn't exotic... (though I could see why not... I have 2 myself, and they function more or less like most single-edged large knives...)

As for the longsword / broad sword, there were different blades which could have been either, or both at times. (The fact that it was popular at one time to lump them all together in one group really makes the distinctions difficult too...)

Bran - I agree... if they had planned on having kamas be basically there just for the monks (which is a possibility), they should have only introduced them when they released the monks (maybe a month or 2 before). But, sometimes we can't apply logic to these types of things / decisions, so I'll let it be for now. ;)

Anyways... I think we may have hijacked this thread from its original intents... :O

I'm done with my tangent off topicness... ;)

Lets get back to the topic... ;) What new (exotic) weapons should be added?

[branmakmuffin]

Morningstars are supposed to do both piercing and bludgeoning damage, just as daggers should be able to do piercing or slashing.
Which would make 'stars even more betterer than heavy maces, making heavy maces even more pointlesserer.


I always wondered why the kukris wasn't exotic... (though I could see why not... I have 2 myself, and they function more or less like most single-edged large knives...)
They were exotic in D&D 3.0 and in NwN 1.


Lets get back to the topic... ;) What new (exotic) weapons should be added?
I don't know about exotic, but I wonder why there's no "great maul" doing 1d12 or 2d6.

[Tanka]

I always wondered why the kukris wasn't exotic... (though I could see why not... I have 2 myself, and they function more or less like most single-edged large knives...)
Kukris were exotic in 3.0, IIRC. They were changed to martial in 3.5, presumably to offer a finessable 18-20 slasher so that it wasn't just rapiers as the only option for finessable 18-20s.