Being accused of cheating.....

[Lo_Pan]

Just finished a reaver raid.....Got accused of using a cheat sheet to solve the puzzle....It's really a dumb accusation to make. After completing the reaver raid well over two hundred times *(I've lost count), I've never once used a programme or outside resource to do the puzzle.....It's rude to think that I'd stoop to that level, and I don't think I've ever been more offended in my entire DDO experience. . . . . I hope the person that made the accusation learns from this experience, next time you make an accusation like this, make sure you don't make a false assumption!

[Aspenor]

The bigger question is...who cares if you used a solver anyway?

If the accuser cares so much, why didn't HE do the puzzle?

[Laith]

i'm not even sure i understand why it'd be cheating, or a bad thing even if it is.

guess i should throw out all those maps, notes on puzzle wheel symbols, and other odds and ends i can't seem to memorize.

[Lo_Pan]

good point... But...More importantly, he didn't do it...Just made snide remarks to my guild leader........

[MrCow]

guess i should throw out all those maps, notes on puzzle wheel symbols, and other odds and ends i can't seem to memorize.

Toss out your brain as well. That way there is no way you will be able to retain anything that could possibly be cheating or interpret any way to cheat. :D

[cbj192]

Since when is it cheating to be an experienced player?

I must have missed that part in my terms of service.

[Impaqt]

While I dont use a Solver, Many... If not Most.... Do.

I refuse to say "Good Job" to the Puzzler if they do indeed use a Solver... But other than that, I move on and get my loot.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

The bigger question is...who cares if you used a solver anyway?

If the accuser cares so much, why didn't HE do the puzzle?

This is exactly what I was thinkin when I finished readin the OP.

Who gives a ....?

[Laith]

Since when is it cheating to be an experienced player?

I must have missed that part in my terms of service.i'm guessing people are going to say "because you're using a third-party application".

Paint, Word, Excel, and Web Browsers are third-party applications, too.
This is why i mentioned maps and puzzle wheel symbols: i view them through such apps, and thus solve various "puzzles".

I have a guildie that found a song that helps him count the timing of the titan phase-tile levers. guess that counts too.

[Yajerman01]

The sniveling bantar from someone who makes an assumption is basing his statement on what evidence?

Did you just do the puzzle so fast he couldn't beleive that you were more proficient then him?

Chaulk it up to an inferiority complex.

[djinni69]

Some people need to get over themselves and their oh-so-superior intellect.

[Tarackian]

The only answer to idiots: /squelch

The people who know you know better.



Just finished a reaver raid.....Got accused of using a cheat sheet to solve the puzzle....It's really a dumb accusation to make. After completing the reaver raid well over two hundred times *(I've lost count), I've never once used a programme or outside resource to do the puzzle.....It's rude to think that I'd stoop to that level, and I don't think I've ever been more offended in my entire DDO experience. . . . . I hope the person that made the accusation learns from this experience, next time you make an accusation like this, make sure you don't make a false assumption!

[Kamboe]

Solvers are so stupid...The puzzle in SR is the funnest part of any raid imho, and some people take that away just to use the solver....

[Litz]

Lets stop with the Bi-Polar view on raiding. If you are of the solver camp, or of the non-solver camp I'd like to think we can all agree the error in encounters like this is that prior communication of methods to be used was the main reason someone walked away disapointed. If someone makes a negative statement about someone they didn't group with like "you're weak you have to use a solver" or "you're arrogant to tell me what to do", then it is on them drop it and let them feel like they won whatever fight they were wanting to provoke. Then go about your raiding style as you wish. Just be sure you are clear, or make clear which method will be used on whatever raid. If you are clear of the raid methods and signed up stick it out. If not bow out politley and some other time when things are different you may still have a friend to group with.

[Dexxaan]

I´ll be REALLY P.O´d if this dimwit ragging on you decides to NOT use the solver and wastes my 13 minute loot run.

(Correction: 30 Minutes since it can take another 15 getting the group filled out since they lowered the bar and have to get 12 in order to get a "Shot" at Raid loot)

[silverraven]

I don't use a solver, but I do let my group members know that I'm mentally deficient with puzzles. :D
That's the glory of playing a group game, team work.

[Zenako]

Loved it one night we had a pug melee with a mostly guild group doing Tor to get a few blooded. He went on and on about how we must all be "cheating" since we were killing the giants so **** fast. Killing the stoned giants so fast. Knew it would be a longer night once we had to explain to him how you get crits on stoned targets, which meant that things like w/p (which a couple of us had) rip thru them like soft butter. Then when the sorc with his dreamsplitter was dropping them figured that was some other cheat as well....

About the time we got to the black dragon he ended up leaving the group (had a wipe when that same melee could not keep the dragon on him...) replaced him with a compentent melee and finished up smoothly.

Point being, some people have little to no exposure to top end equipment or skills and it can appear like "cheating" when you pull things off or do things so fast it seems hard to believe.

[kahbel]

Loved it one night we had a pug melee with a mostly guild group doing Tor to get a few blooded. He went on and on about how we must all be "cheating" since we were killing the giants so **** fast. Killing the stoned giants so fast. Knew it would be a longer night once we had to explain to him how you get crits on stoned targets, which meant that things like w/p (which a couple of us had) rip thru them like soft butter. Then when the sorc with his dreamsplitter was dropping them figured that was some other cheat as well....

About the time we got to the black dragon he ended up leaving the group (had a wipe when that same melee could not keep the dragon on him...) replaced him with a compentent melee and finished up smoothly.

Point being, some people have little to no exposure to top end equipment or skills and it can appear like "cheating" when you pull things off or do things so fast it seems hard to believe.

He was probably confused why his 'vorpal dps' was not functioning.

[Qzipoun]

After completing the reaver raid well over two hundred times *(I've lost count), I've never once used a programme or outside resource to do the puzzle.....It's rude to think that I'd stoop to that level

After completing the reaver raid well over two hundred times *(I've lost count), I've ALWAYS used a solver to do the puzzle.... and I'm proud of it.

[Citymorg]

Personally, I don't like using puzzle solvers. I think they're an easy button. They still work, but it's not earned the same way. Nothing wrong with it, gets the job done, just not my style. However, with the new trainer out there, I believe that there is no need to use a solver. In all the times I've played with it, I have only failed once.

[JoeyJoJoJr]

if i am in a group who needs a solver, i will volunteer but let the group know i will be using a solution. that way if there is someone who wants to use their noodle they are more then welcome.

but i've done it enough times in the past w/out the solution that i don't have anything to prove to myself. i've also failed enough times in the past that i am more concerned about completing the quest then pumping my ego.

best story i've ever heard in the reaver.
group has HUGE argument over who will solve puzzle. guy who wants to use solution vs one who does not. the guy goes in to do puzzle w/out solution. does all the work etc. several steps in.... finds out the answer wa BBGG. LOL!

lunch time.

[DelScorcho]

Toss out your brain as well. That way there is no way you will be able to retain anything that could possibly be cheating or interpret any way to cheat. :D

/signed. Unless you undergo a full frontal lobotomy after each run, you are clearly exploiting!

[Tanka]

I use solvers.

Why? I'd rather not flub it and waste everyone's time, eventually losing to the timer and having to restart.

If somebody wants to use their head, that's fine. But they'd better not flub it.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

While I dont use a Solver, Many... If not Most.... Do.

I refuse to say "Good Job" to the Puzzler if they do indeed use a Solver... But other than that, I move on and get my loot.

Yep. Not a big deal for someone to use it, but it certainly doesn't merit a "good job" if all they do is look at a spreadsheet and follow some directions.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

I have gotten in the habit of telling people that we are NOT using a solver and could possibly
fail the mission. I also tell them they are free to leave if they don't want to take the chance
with us.

I don't think anyone has dropped group yet....

[DragonKiller]

ibest story i've ever heard in the reaver.
group has HUGE argument over who will solve puzzle. guy who wants to use solution vs one who does not. the guy goes in to do puzzle w/out solution. does all the work etc. several steps in.... finds out the answer wa BBGG. LOL!

Had that happen to me once. Luckily it only took 2 turns to get, but we had a laugh at it.

As far as "cheating" by using the solver? I don't think so. I don't use it simply because I have seen the solver fail, yet I never fail when doing it by myself. Truth be told the solver probably always works, but sometimes it's hard to tell between Yellow and Orange so I think it can get confusing when you use the solver. Also if you do fail with the solver, it's really hard to recover from.

[Lufia]

To be honest, If your using a solver and someone really has a problem with it, tell them to drop group.

Obviously if they stay for the loot despite of the objection to a solver,

tell them to jump off the House K Bridge or ask a carebear who cares =p

[Yabba]

After completing the reaver raid well over two hundred times *(I've lost count), I've never once used a programme or outside resource to do the puzzle.....It's rude to think that I'd stoop to that level, and I don't think I've ever been more offended in my entire DDO experience. . . . .

Stoop to what level? Being a little 'Elitist' aren't you?

If there's one thing I don't like, it's Elitists. And it sounds like the person who had a shot at you was an elitist as well.

I used to use the solver a while ago (it got the job done, and it got it done fast) and I was in a party once when a well known elitist had a shot at me for being so pathetic for using the solver. The other 10 members told her to shut her trap and that they didn't support her opinion.

I don't use the solver anymore as I usually get it in 4-7 pulls anyway, but I certainly don't care if anyone wants to use the solver themselves.

[Aranticus]

Stoop to what level? Being a little 'Elitist' aren't you?

If there's one thing I don't like, it's Elitists. And it sounds like the person who had a shot at you was an elitist as well.

I used to use the solver a while ago (it got the job done, and it got it done fast) and I was in a party once when a well known elitist had a shot at me for being so pathetic for using the solver. The other 10 members told her to shut her trap and that they didn't support her opinion.

I don't use the solver anymore as I usually get it in 4-7 pulls anyway, but I certainly don't care if anyone wants to use the solver themselves.

ah.... i recall that divine being :rolleyes:

[adamkatt]

if i am in a group who needs a solver, i will volunteer but let the group know i will be using a solution. that way if there is someone who wants to use their noodle they are more then welcome.

but i've done it enough times in the past w/out the solution that i don't have anything to prove to myself. i've also failed enough times in the past that i am more concerned about completing the quest then pumping my ego.

best story i've ever heard in the reaver.
group has HUGE argument over who will solve puzzle. guy who wants to use solution vs one who does not. the guy goes in to do puzzle w/out solution. does all the work etc. several steps in.... finds out the answer wa BBGG. LOL!

lunch time.

What is The Solution? Do you somehow already no the answer without touching the puzzel?

[Boldrin]

Hmmm... solver guaranteed 5 moves or less.... manually, 2-8 moves.... guess it's kinda like personal preference. I usually take the quickest path, just don't have enough playing time for failures, sux having a life

[Strakeln]

What is The Solution? Do you somehow already no the answer without touching the puzzel?BBGG is the "standard" starting position for whatever solver is used by the Khyberian masses.

[BlackSteel]

dont care either way if someone uses the solver or not. Its an easy enough puzzle, but whatever gets the job done fast. I do think the issue in this case was that the person being rude enough to send private tells to the party leader and the persons guild leader accusing them of what they saw as bad behavior. Putting it out front is one thing, it can be laughed down, and be told to get over it. But the manner in which this was approached was just disgusting, and I'm sure those guild members in that group are going to remember said individual with the big mouth.

[Litz]

BBGG is the "standard" starting position for whatever solver is used by the Khyberian masses.

I agree Brown Blue Gold Green is the way to go..

[Strakeln]

I agree Brown Blue Gold Green is the way to go..Dammit Litz, stop messing with people.

We all know BBGG stands for Blue Brown Green Gold.

[Hordo]

If by some unfortunate happenstance I get bagged as the puzzler for our group, I use a puzzle solver. I make no bones about it. But whoever has the 'star' in the raid gets to make the decisions. Thankfully, I usually have the star and can let someone remotely competent at puzzle solving do it for us! LOL:D

[Lo_Pan]

I am not an elitist, not even in the slightest.... I just don't like to have someone foist what I deem to be an insult at me based on an assumption. If the fact that I choose to use my brain makes me an elitist in some people's opinion, then so be it. If I get ragged on by people, then so be it. All I know is, I was accused of using an automated puzzle solver, and I find that rude. :D

[Altarboy]

Aight!
waaaaaAAAAAaaaaaaa....
suck it up and move on....
jeeeez it's not like he accused you of kissing your sister or sumthin...
I don't think your an elitist...
but you have skin like tracing paper
this whole thread is stupid

[adamkatt]

BBGG is the "standard" starting position for whatever solver is used by the Khyberian masses.

I know that but that does not make it a solution.....

[Dawnblade]

Just finished a reaver raid.....Got accused of using a cheat sheet to solve the puzzle....It's really a dumb accusation to make. After completing the reaver raid well over two hundred times *(I've lost count), I've never once used a programme or outside resource to do the puzzle.....It's rude to think that I'd stoop to that level, and I don't think I've ever been more offended in my entire DDO experience. . . . . I hope the person that made the accusation learns from this experience, next time you make an accusation like this, make sure you don't make a false assumption!


Honestly, unless this was a RP group where it would be hard to roleplay how you suddenly had that information (unless maybe your int stat was high), I see no issue with using solvers. As someone else mentioned, people use guides and information from assorted websites all the time to help with the game. If he was so worried about it he could have easily recalled out and not gotten the loot but I bet he didn't do that.

It's specially bad if you didn't use the solver. If he is concerned about it he can create his own raid groups with a LFM message that says something along the lines of "no puzzle solvers or other outside information". If you join someone else's group you either play by their rules or you drop out; to me it's that simple.

[Harncw]

I can understand how the solver works... but I have no idea how to complete the puzzle...

I have no urge to try to udnerstand puzzle... too busy trying to understand some Union Pay rules in the state of Ohio at the moment.

I know... I'm a noob!

[Yabba]

If the fact that I choose to use my brain makes me an elitist in some people's opinion, then so be it. If I get ragged on by people, then so be it. All I know is, I was accused of using an automated puzzle solver, and I find that rude. :D

It's not the fact that you use your brain that makes you an elitist. It's the fact that you think it's stooping to a certain level if someone does use one.

[Litz]

I know that but that does not make it a solution.....

Actually on my 2nd reaver raid ever (my first win) we used BBGG on the first guess, and it was the solution.. :D

[JoeyJoJoJr]

I know that but that does not make it a solution.....

Oh i gotcha... we're nitpicking.

It's a Solution Solver. Which always starts off w/ Blue-Blue-Green-Green.
and if something will solve the puzzle 100% of the time i'd go as far as calling it a Solution (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solution).

[apacheizm23]

Some people need to get over themselves and their oh-so-superior intellect.

Agreed...

[Harncw]

Oh i gotcha... we're nitpicking.

It's a Solution Solver. Which always starts off w/ Blue-Blue-Green-Green.
and if something will solve the puzzle 100% of the time i'd go as far as calling it a Solution (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solution).

Well originally it was BBOO...

But I changed all the oranges to apples and then made the blues orange and than made the apples blue.

Because in the DDO Stormreaver implementation of Mastermind the Green comes before the orange!

See here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=107020).

[Strakeln]

I know that but that does not make it a solution.....Perhaps I misunderstood your post.

The text you quoted was a discussion about a group trying to decide whether or not to use the solver. In the end, they went without the solver, but the solution ended up being BBGG.

The irony of this situation was that had the crew used the solver, they would have the correct solution on the first try.

Your post made me think that you didn't get that irony due to not being familiar with the solver, so I was just trying to explain it. :)

[Caelan]

when i was in grade school math, i had to show my work. i was not allowed to use a calculator. i had to prove i could use my brain and figure out the answer without assistance.

when i was in high school, i was required to purchase a scientific calculator. i had to prove i could use the tool properly to figure out the answer.

when i was in college, i was required to write a program that would analyze and compute statistics properly. the program had to do all the work for me once i input the set of variable. i had to prove that i could build a tool that could figure out the answer.

if i take a pencil and paper while balancing my checkbook, am i an elitist? if i use quicken, am i cheating? (these are rhetorical questions.) both produce the same results and both took time at some point in my life to learn how to do. both required brain usage in different ways. application solver vs. thinking it through... i see no difference except in the approach.

the OP problem seemed to be that someone was lodging a complaint with his guild leader for doing something wrong (regardless of whether you agree if it is wrong or not, the complainer did). he didn't say anything to the OP. and he didn't have his facts. if someone went to my guild leader saying i was cheating (whether or not we agree it is cheating doesn't matter) i'd be offended too. the complainer obviously was looking to get the OP in trouble somehow. not cool.

of course i'd be amused to hear what my guild leader would say to such a thing, lol :p

[Illuminati]

It amuses me that any have a problem with a solver instead of how crappy and stupid this raid is.....

When I first came back to the game last November I was blown away by the mobile dragons preceding the quest. Then on the raid, where the whole encounter air elemental thing was a horrid ending to an awesome quest line.

Anyway, the puzzle isnt that difficult once you learn how but most would agree just get in and get out of a crappy raid.

[djinni69]

It amuses me that any have a problem with a solver ....

AMEN!!!!

[valczir]

I've never understood people who need to use solvers and/or screenshots, etc. 90% of the time, I look at the tiles, move them around in my brain, and solve the puzzle (in my head) before the guy with the solver has begun. I don't like stepping in and working on a puzzle when I don't know exactly what the goal is, though - I'll solve it in a guild group or with a group of friends, but I usually sit in the corner if I'm in a pug.

Then again, I have Asperger's Syndrome, so I guess there's a medical reason that I act this way. Solving puzzles is easy for an aspergian, but socializing isn't.

[adamkatt]

Perhaps I misunderstood your post.

The text you quoted was a discussion about a group trying to decide whether or not to use the solver. In the end, they went without the solver, but the solution ended up being BBGG.

The irony of this situation was that had the crew used the solver, they would have the correct solution on the first try.

Your post made me think that you didn't get that irony due to not being familiar with the solver, so I was just trying to explain it. :)

Hey he made it sound like he always knew the SOLUTION, I mean call it what it is a solver. And ive always used it.. I dont play ddo to solve puzzels.. Thats what hoyle board and puzzel games is for.

[Yabba]

Turbine needs to code more puzzles where it depends on the Characters Stats for solving, rather than the Players Stats.

Like they tried to do in The Cruciable. It would be really cool if the wheels in the reaver didn't turn unless you had xx Int. Throw in a few mobile spinning blade traps and fire/electricity spewing from the walls so people couldn't stand still at 6/7 o'clock.

Add a dragon or 2 from the pre-raid and possibly then, the raid might be challenging.

[Yajerman01]

I Like Lamp!