Self Healing TWF

[hydra_ex]

Neutral Good/True Neutral Dwarven 14 Cleric/2 Fighter

Starting Abilities: (32-pt)
Str 17
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 6

Ending Abilities: (32-pt)
Str 30 (+2 Tome Used)
Dex 17 (+1 Tome Used)
Con 24
Int 8
Wis 22 (+1 Tome Used)

HP: 403
104 Cleric
20 Fighter
112 Constitution
20 Heroic Durability
10 Favor
36 Toughness
55 Toughness Enhancement
30 Greater False Life
15 Shroud

SP: 1071
726 Base
66 wisdom
135 Enhancement
150 Wizadry VI


AC: 20
10 Base
9 Armor
1 Dex

To-Hit: 33
12 BaB
(16 Self Cast Divine Power)
10 Str
5 Item
2 Dwarven Axe Attack
2 Rececitation
-2 TWF

Damange (No Crit): 1d12+3d6+15 (35)
1d12 Shroud Dwarven Axe
1d6 Elemental Damage
2d6 Holy Damage
5 Item
10 Str
2 Dwarven Axe Damage
1 Prayer

Saves: 25/14/22
12/4/9 Base
6/3/6 Ability
5/5/5 Resistance
2/2/2 Rececitation

Endgame Enhancements:
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I (or Fighter Haste Boost I)
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness I
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness II
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness III
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV

Leveling Guide:

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing

Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+1)

Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)

Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting

Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)

Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)

Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)

Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)

Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)

Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Best Possible Equipment:
Minos Legens (Toughness, Heavy Fort) - Tapestry Helmet
+6 Consitution Necklace
+5 Adamantine FullPlate or Breastplate of Destruction (+5 Mithril Breastplate, weapons apply -4 AC to enemies) - Hound of Xoriat
Striding +30% Boots or Boots of the Innocent (+5 Resistance, 20% Striding) - Desecrated Temple of Vol
Belt of Greater False Life
+6 Ogre Power Bracers or Levikk's Bracers (Healing Amplification 20%, Str +6) - Hound of Xoriat
Gauntlets of Eternity (Heal +13, Repair +13, Devotion VI, Superior Healing Lore, Eternal Faith) - The Reaver's Fate
Cloak of Resistance +4 or Cloak of the Zephyr (20% Blur [Doesn't Stack], Invisbility 1/day) - Zawabi's Revenge
Feather Falling Ring of Solid Fog
Disease Immunity/Proof Against Poison Ring
Tier II Existential Stalemate Goggles: Wizadry VI, + 15 HP, Wisdom +6, Tier III +20 HP (Double T 3 optional)
Voice of the Master (+1 Good Luck, XP +5%) - Delera's End Reward or Bloodstone (+6 Seeker) - The Menactarun Desert

Weapons:
Tier III Mineral Dwarven Axe: Acid, Pure Good Burst, Acid Blast, Stoneskin 2/day, Keen, Transmuting, Slicing.
Tier III Lightning Dwarven Axe: Shocking, Pure Good Burst, Shocking Blast, Chain Lightning 2/day, Lightning Bolt(?) ~1-2% Chance for tons of damage.

Gameplay: Plays like any other TWF class generally (ie run up to enemy and deal massive damage) with one exception: self healing capabilities and limited buffing. Permanant quicken spell means little need for concentration, and casting does not interfere with combat. Build can cast its own true seeing, as well as aid and protection from evil, and although permanant Divine Power, Prayer, and Recitation might be out of this build's range, it has enough SP to provide a healthy amount of said buffs.

Appendix I: Alternative Builds
Istead of making a self-healing DPS build, you could instead make a self-healing ac build. Simply replace the levels of fighter with monk, raise DEX at the expense of STR, and become a halfling.

For Khopesh lovers, this build could be made a human. Simply take Human Improved Recovery Enhancements, and with your bonus feat, take Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh.

Appendix II: Views of the Future
Since Heal caps out at 150 damage healed, thats where the cleric levels will also stop. What to do with the reamining 3 levels is somewhat difficult. To maximize additional feats, 2 more fighter levels, along with a monk level might be introduced. Feats to pick up would include: Extend Spell, Toughness, and Weapon Focus.

NB: Only 2nd Tier Shroud Items are included in this build's statistics.

[maddmatt70]

Go with the 1 monk/15 cleric instead and someday down the road take your second monk level for evasion.

[hydra_ex]

reflex save isnt high enough to warrant evasion and two fighter lvls grants fighter str 1 enancement. Also, when wearing any armor (as you should, at least to get DR), monks lose benefits of evasion.

[maddmatt70]

You will get more ac going without armor because of the applying wisdom to ac bonus monks get check out the numbers yourself. Regarding reflex save. You can get a high enough reflex save that you can save 50% of the time on high end spell casters and if you play alot of ddo you can craft shroud items that add up an additional +3 reflex save.. I would also swap out weapon focus for a metamagic feat by the way and I would consider swapping out oversized for a metamagic feat as well..

I have been cranking out ability score numbers and 1 point of strength isn't worth that much in ddo... Ability scores account for a much lower % of the melee damage then they do in pnp

[hydra_ex]

ac of less than 45 does not matter at all, while may I reitterate that this build only has 300 hp, two heals heal it, maybe maximize is worth it, maybe its not.

[maddmatt70]

ac of less than 45 does not matter at all, while may I reitterate that this build only has 300 hp, two heals heal it, maybe maximize is worth it, maybe its not.

You can get a much higher ac then 45 especially when you don't wear armor and Turbine with the icy rainment made sure of that..

[maddmatt70]

Go maximize and empower for blade barriors or empower healing with empower healing enhancements and leviks neck those are all worth more then 3 to hit considering you will be hitting anyway and healing alot more then you anticipate..

[hydra_ex]

But a heal of 140+70% (40% + devotion) = 238+50% (emp heal) = 347, which is more than my total hp. And honestly, I dont have enough mana for anything but self heals.

[CSFurious]

because without them you will not pug this build past level 10

also, you should leave the twf to tempest rangers, certain rogues, & maybe a barbarian, or even drow or halfling bard because they got naturally high dex

anyone else fighting with twf is borderline gimp

best clerics who fight, fight with magic, they just concentrate on blade barriers & insta-kill

this might be one of the worst builds that i have ever seen posted on these forums

if you want be put on most good guilds' "do not play with" lists then roll this build

[juniorpfactors]

will be lots of fun till you get to end game...at that point you get debuffed in many many quests and your to hit will be a big problem...but outside of those quests it will work, dump the wisdom ring, craft existential stalemate goggles with spell points giving you +6 wisdom there, with hp at tier 2 and spell points at tier 3, your gonna need a lot of healing mana, and use the ring slot for the +6 dex +2 compentence to hit ring, or get the +5 mith fullplate with it from vision, it will help your melee ability a lot, wear minos legion for more hp to make up for the loss on your greensteel...potentially frees up 2 ring slots for you, at end game, your build will be 100% reliant on W/p weapons to be effective...this build is essenentially my 2 original character...its awefully tough to keep up with real melees in lvl 12-16 content even with the best weapons...bard buffs are allmost a must ...becuase of all the beholders and debuffing in mod 7 content, w/p rapiers daggers or ss can make this build work but most pug groups wont understand

jrp

[binnsr]

just a couple of points of consideration..

1) shroud rapier is 1d8 not 1d12 .. if it was 1d12, everyone would have one -- even the khopesh converts..
2) Why Cleric 15 if you're planning your spell points being only for self healing and buffing - stop at cleric11 and take a second fighter level and 2 ranger levels.
The extra fighter level gives you: +2hp, +1 feat, Ftr Str I, +1 BAB
The Ranger levels gives you: TWF, Rapid Shot, Bow Str, Rgr Dex I, Favored Enemy (plus enhancements), +3 reflex save
3) Maximize or Empower do not affect the Heal spell. Empowered Healing does, but is not useful for your offensive spells.
4) Drop the crit healing enhancements once you get Heal at 11 .. enhanced, potencied Heal should be all you need

The build that I'd recommend if you went down this path would be:

Dwarf - 12Clr/2Ftr/2Rgr (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pbhnEIQeNXoS64Oms7QIeTw&hl=en_GB)
(same stats as what you have)
1 Cleric1 - Extend Spell
2 Ranger1 - FE:Undead
3 Ranger2 - Toughness
4 Cleric2
5 Cleric3
6 Cleric4 - Empower Spell (Or Empowered Healing if you only care about your healing spells)
7 Cleric5
8 Cleric6
9 Cleric7 - iTWF
10 Fighter1 - Oversize TWF (don't start dual-wielding until you have Divine Power (clr7))
11 Cleric8
12 Cleric9 - iCrit: Slash
13 Cleric10
14 Cleric11
15 Cleric12 - Quicken Spell
16 Fighter2 - gTWF


edit: by my calculations, you'll have 393hp at lvl16 with minos legens and the toughness enhancements on the current build..
20 heroic durability
10 Argo favor
112 Con bonus (from 24 con in your OP)
120 15Cleric
10 1Fighter
18 Toughness Feat
18 Minos Legens
55 Toughness Enhancements
30 Greater False Life
(15 shroud tier II as suggested by jrp)
---------
393 / 408

[Falcone]

I think it's an interesting build, and would be fun to play. You've obviously chosen to sacrifice a lot to tilt it towards TWF rather than Dwarven Axe and shield. As long as you're aware of what you're giving up (including, as pointed out by other posters metamagics, more spellpoints, deadly blade barriers) then by all means, go all the way towards TWF if you're going to lean that way at all.

When you join pugs, you'll need to either exchange a few tells with the leader before joining, or expect to take some grief because the group expected something other than your playstyle. Obviously the former is preferred, and if you play well as a more-self-sufficient-than-average tank, with the ability to drop back and play secondary healbot in situations where it's needed, smart group leaders will take you into just about anything. Would I send you in to tank in Vision of Destruction? No. Would I send you to a corner to solo the Orthon or Devil in shroud part 2, take you on as a tank for Running with the Devils and the like? Sure.

A few tweaks/corrections: You'll actually have more hitpoints than you show. Taking all 4 Dwarven Toughness enhancements gives a total of 50. Bloodstone is +6 Seeker. Fighter Str 1 enhancement is available only at Fighter level 2; in your level-up guide you show 2 fighter levels, so you might change the top line from 15/1 to 14/2.

We all have our suggestions, and mine would be: if you're going to craft weapons (which you eventually should) don't mess around with rapiers. The Green Steel Dwarven Axe does insane damage, so unless you can also fit in Improved Crit Piercing (which is probably way down the priority list of additional feats) and since to-hit will be an issue in higher-level content, stick with axes for max dps and to take advantage of the enhancements you've selected. And speaking of enhancements, with this build, I don't think you'll get as much value out of the enhanced critical chance/damage enhancements as you would from just having more sp. Take some Cleric and Dwarven enhancements for SP, throw in fighter haste boost, critical accuracy, and one more toughness enhancement, and I think it'll make a stronger char overall. Something like:

Fighter Haste Boost I
Dwarven Axe Attack I
Dwarven Axe Attack II
Dwarven Axe Damage I
Dwarven Axe Damage II
Dwarven Constitution I
Dwarven Constitution II
Dwarven Faith I
Dwarven Faith II
Dwarven Toughness I
Dwarven Toughness II
Dwarven Toughness III
Dwarven Toughness IV
Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Cleric Life Magic I
Cleric Life Magic II
Cleric Life Magic III
Cleric Life Magic IV
Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Fighter Strength I
Cleric Wisdom I
Cleric Wisdom II
Cleric Wisdom III
Fighter Toughness I


Regardless, have fun and good luck!

(Edit: looks like Binnsr and I were writing at the same time and he posted first. Sorry for any duplications.)

[hydra_ex]

[QUOTE=binnsr;1789733]just a couple of points of consideration..

1) shroud rapier is 1d8 not 1d12 .. if it was 1d12, everyone would have one -- even the khopesh converts..
Did I say rapier? I meant dwarven axe...
3) Maximize or Empower do not affect the Heal spell. Empowered Healing does, but is not useful for your offensive spells.
Yes they do
4) Drop the crit healing enhancements once you get Heal at 11 .. enhanced, potencied Heal should be all you need
Point taken

[juniorpfactors]

[QUOTE=binnsr;1789733]just a couple of points of consideration..

1) shroud rapier is 1d8 not 1d12 .. if it was 1d12, everyone would have one -- even the khopesh converts..
Did I say rapier? I meant dwarven axe...
3) Maximize or Empower do not affect the Heal spell. Empowered Healing does, but is not useful for your offensive spells.
Yes they do
4) Drop the crit healing enhancements once you get Heal at 11 .. enhanced, potencied Heal should be all you need
Point taken

3) Maximize or Empower do not affect the Heal spell. Empowered Healing does, but is not useful for your offensive spells.
Yes they do

max nor Emp ...affect heal spell ONLY emp Healing does.... but emp healing does nothing for BB....only max and emp do

[hydra_ex]

your build will be 100% reliant on W/p weapons to be effective...
jrp

Aren't they all?

[juniorpfactors]

lol ya pretty much...but I know because I already have this exact build...but its human...but with 30str
the +6 dex ring +2 comp to hit helps...but a pocket bard makes it shine lol

jrp

[binnsr]

just a couple of points of consideration..

1) shroud rapier is 1d8 not 1d12 .. if it was 1d12, everyone would have one -- even the khopesh converts..
Did I say rapier? I meant dwarven axe...
3) Maximize or Empower do not affect the Heal spell. Empowered Healing does, but is not useful for your offensive spells.
Yes they do
4) Drop the crit healing enhancements once you get Heal at 11 .. enhanced, potencied Heal should be all you need
Point taken


I have a capped cleric with both Maximize and Empower (and she had Empower Healing until the metamagic revamp last year). I know what spells affect Heal and what ones don't. Both Maximize and Empower do affect CLW-CCW and mCLW-mCCW - but CCW maximized and empowered costs more than heal for less healing. Also, for the mass spells, without superior potency VII and VIII items, MCSW and MCCW heal less than MCMW and cost more.

If you want fat blade barriers, you want Max and Empower (i don't think this build is focussed on this, which is why my recommendation left the option open). If you want to Heal all the big bad barbarian's booboos all the time, you want Empowered Healing.

[maddmatt70]

One other thing the critical healing enhancements are not worth it. In Mod 5 they were good because of ghosts of perdition when you would repeatedly cast heal spells for damage on the undead beholder, but they don't really help too much in game when you are not casting heal and cure spells as damage.

You can get your spell points up pretty high with raid loot et all.

I just have to say on your overall build - the only damage mitigation you have built in is the last line of defense the quicken heal. If you are not on your game in regards to that forget about it. A higher ac build or the willingness to step back and heal the rest of the party when things get rough would be better options in my opinion. A wf battle arcane and a battle bard both have very potent damage mitigation with displacement and stoneskin and can self heal hence they are better suited to run around with a low ac and/or not have very good casting ability..

[jmonty]

ac of less than 45 does not matter at all

lol

[Falcone]

ac of less than 45 does not matter at all...


lol

If the assertion is: "If my AC is less than 45, then worrying about AC is a waste of time for end-game content."
Then I agree, though personally I'd set the number higher, say at _least_ 52 if you want mobs to miss you based on AC.

If the assertion is: "With quickened heals, who cares if my AC is only 45."
Then I also agree, as you seem to understand the costs involved, and have made a playstyle decision on how to spend your SP.

If you're running end-game content and sacrificing dps or hitpoints in your items/feats/enhancements in order to boost your AC as high as it will go, and you're reaching a number in the 40's, I'd suggest switching things around to max your damage output (or stat damage, vorpal crit-confirming, or whatever you do best) and look at other ways to mitigate incoming damage. To paraphrase what _I think_ Hydra_Ex was saying: "If AC is under <insert your minimum benchmark>, then it simply doesn't matter, as the mobs' to-hit rolls will let them hit you even when they roll a 2."

[hydra_ex]

If the assertion is: "If my AC is less than 45, then worrying about AC is a waste of time for end-game content."
Then I agree, though personally I'd set the number higher, say at _least_ 52 if you want mobs to miss you based on AC.

If the assertion is: "With quickened heals, who cares if my AC is only 45."
Then I also agree, as you seem to understand the costs involved, and have made a playstyle decision on how to spend your SP.

If you're running end-game content and sacrificing dps or hitpoints in your items/feats/enhancements in order to boost your AC as high as it will go, and you're reaching a number in the 40's, I'd suggest switching things around to max your damage output (or stat damage, vorpal crit-confirming, or whatever you do best) and look at other ways to mitigate incoming damage. To paraphrase what _I think_ Hydra_Ex was saying: "If AC is under <insert your minimum benchmark>, then it simply doesn't matter, as the mobs' to-hit rolls will let them hit you even when they roll a 2."

Basically yes. My AC is only 21, so it doesn't really matter much. Alot of builds can't manage to obatin an outstanding AC, especailly non dex based TWFers. Recently a paladin posted a thread with his 40 AC, which he agreed did not matter much, asking if he should rebuild. As long as he could hold his own weight, he would be fine. This build can DEFINITLY hold its own weight.

[Qzipoun]

I have a capped cleric with both Maximize and Empower (and she had Empower Healing until the metamagic revamp last year). I know what spells affect Heal and what ones don't.

Sorry to question your knowledge but no, you do not. Neither Maximize nor Empower affect the Heal spell. They both affect the cure spells but not the Heal spell. Empower healing affects both Heal and cure spells.

[binnsr]

Sorry to question your knowledge but no, you do not. Neither Maximize nor Empower affect the Heal spell. They both affect the cure spells but not the Heal spell. Empower healing affects both Heal and cure spells.

Did you bother reading the whole thread?

[hydra_ex]

Just to post clarification on the above tpics, what I meant to say was that healing spells are affected my max/emp (ie cure spells). The Heal spell itself is not. Either way it does not matter as my number one spell I use is heal, with divine power, prayer, and rececitation.