winsom
07-09-2008, 09:43 PM
Human Monk X / Rogue 1 : I wanted to have rogue 1st enhancements, Use Magic Device and Open Locks.
The cost of 1 non-monk level is 1 less DC with offensive save attacks and 1 level behind in getting monk upgrades and abilities that are best gained single-classing. Will the multiclass be worth it? I'm trying to make sure it is.
At level 9 I've been able to open every lock so far, even though only 4 ranks invested at level 1. More ranks to be added later. Human Versatility enhancement helps a lot here. I'm currently UMDing some handwraps that are better than what is available without UMD. I want to be able to use Wands of Shield, Mage Armor, Blur, Stoneskin, Resist Energy at higher than the default caster level, but that won't happen reliably until closer to 14th level, I think. Skill Focus feat in UMD was taken at level 9 so I can use racial-items and have a chance at some 1st and 2nd level wands.
Rogue 1st enhancements: Sneak Attack Damage +3, Trap Saves +2, Open Locks +1, Rogue attack speed boost
I like sneak-attacking while someone else tanks, but I also want to have a useful AC because I solo sometimes, and I enjoy using Cleave and that often draws aggro. More tanks should use intimidate! My AC won't be maximized, but I'm going to make a good effort to keep it high.
AC 36 = 10 +4 DEX, +7 WIS, +2 monk, +2 chaosguarde, +1 Dodge feat +10 house P & J buffs & potions
AC bomes 37 with Ocean or Wind stance. Shield clicky, Haste, Human AC boost and Defensive Fighting can add more, but these have not been used as often after getting access to House buffs. (Used a lot prior to 75 P & J favor)
This is a level 9 character, so has access to +4 ability score items, or +5 race-restricted (+5 WIS helm)
STR 22, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 10 (w/ +2 tome), WIS 24, CHA 10 (cloak of resistance/cha and tome +1)
One level-up point into each of STR & WIS, and probably again at 12th & 16th. Human Adaptability into STR & WIS.
Stunning Blow & Stunning Fist feats. Save DC 22 to 24 in each after adding in Weighted hand-wrap bonus, at level 9.
Level 16 scores are likely to be STR 25-30 and WIS 28 to 32 depending on which monk stance is active.
Quarterstaff & Power Attack is already a 1d6 +24 damage attack at level 9.
This is good for low-average Armor Class monsters that I do not care to use Stunning Fist on. Such as stun-immune creatures. QS occasionally gets glancing blow extra attack. Amusing, but not significant damage.
I typically fight unarmed so as to use handwraps with a large Weighted bonus for stunning.
Less damage than quarterstaff but unarmed strikes animate a little faster than other weapon attacks. My prefered style is frequent stunning which in turn adds a lot of critical hit and sneak attack damage. Ive seen unarmed crits over 40 damage at level 9 (probably had power attack on).
Currently using +1 true law, weighted +8 stunning blow DC and 4% auto-stun per attack.
The 4% chance of automatic stun from Weighted (per hit) is really too good for this game, I think. You can get up to 5% on a weapon. If I Cleave several foes there is a fair chance that one might get stunned for free. It happens a lot.
I chose human race as a challenge to myself and also because I like the extra skill points and human versatility & adaptability. I can imagine ways that a halfling or dwarf could do certain combat-oriented things a little better, but I hope to make the difference not too great.
Hopefully Ive illustrated some ways that a human can be an interesting multiclass with monk & rogue. More human vs other race comparison below, if you care to read on.
Dwarves & Halflings can get better saves than a Human, unboosted. These races might go without a Resistance item, freeing up an item slot. That would be cool. The Human can use a Saves boost for really dangerous fights, such as against beholders or mind-flayers, or running through multiple elite blade-barriers..
Dwarves can have a lot more Hit Points and Tactical enhancements. They would be the best at hit points and stunning and tripping, which is very broken. Bad Turbine! No race should get that advantage alone. All races or classes should have the tactics & toughness lines, or none should, in my opinion!
DEX & WIS-based Halflings have better possible Armor Class. There is no competing with that.
The Halfling likely has a better attack bonus by a few points, which can mean they can leave power attack on all of the time and thus deal damage similar to a STR & WIS based monk that turns power attack off for some reason. The halfling almost certainly take Weapon Finesse for his attack bonus. He probably does not take Weapon Focus in unarmed strikes. My human character will take Weapon Focus: Unarmed to compensate.
Halflings game balance breaker comes with the Halfling Guile and Flanking Bonus enhancements, mostly the +8 bonus damage when sneak attacking. My human needed to take Rogue 1st to get a +3 sneak bonus damage. Turbine should lower the halfling bonus damage amount to +3 total (perhaps cost 2, 4, 6 like other enhancements) because it is too good right now compared to what other race/class combos can get.
What the Human Monk X /Rogue 1 gets:
Extra skill points.
Since I plan to pay double points to maximize Use Magic Device and also have some Open Locks ranks, the human race bonus means I can start with an INT 8, and it counts as a 10 for skill points. I do not plan to maximize Open Locks (no need to), and probably not max Concentration either, so human gives me a few extra points to put into Spot, Jump & Tumble. I plan to carry a Featherfall item, but hope not to have to wear it most of the time.
Human Bonus feat
I think of this as a Dodge or Toughness feat so the human does not have to have really poor Hit Points compared to the dwarf, or lacking AC compared to a Halfling. It think it can be a good strategy to take two or three toughness feats on build monks that do not use Dragonmarks or Two Weapon Fighting feats.
Dodge, Mobility & Spring Attack can be a nice flavor choice of feats, but from the point of view of gaining game-advantage, Power Attack and Cleave or Toughness are much better. Combat Expertise + Improved Trip could be nice, except I think CE is too weak because Turbine does not let it stack with Defensive Fighting, as would be allowed in D&D.
Human Versatility & Adaptability
The Versatility boost to skills is mainly used when I'm opening locks or trying to UMD a difficult item. A human non-rogue would use these boosts for Attack Bonus or Armor Class, or perhaps Saves if not using Ocean Stance. Human Saves boost + Ocean stance = decent chance of evading ELITE traps, some of which can use 170+ damage, multiple hit, with a target Reflex save in the mid to high 30s!
A dwarf can get a good Stunning Blow and Trip DC via the broken dwarf enhancement line, but the Human can raise his STR by +1 via Human Adaptability, and also WIS or DEX by +1 with Greater Adaptability enhancement. Thats better than some other races can do. The halfling is noticibly poor at trip or stunning blow unless a weapon is dedicated to Vertigo or Weighted, and then he is still a bit low. My human build is purposely taking advantage of the higher STR because it can.
The cost of 1 non-monk level is 1 less DC with offensive save attacks and 1 level behind in getting monk upgrades and abilities that are best gained single-classing. Will the multiclass be worth it? I'm trying to make sure it is.
At level 9 I've been able to open every lock so far, even though only 4 ranks invested at level 1. More ranks to be added later. Human Versatility enhancement helps a lot here. I'm currently UMDing some handwraps that are better than what is available without UMD. I want to be able to use Wands of Shield, Mage Armor, Blur, Stoneskin, Resist Energy at higher than the default caster level, but that won't happen reliably until closer to 14th level, I think. Skill Focus feat in UMD was taken at level 9 so I can use racial-items and have a chance at some 1st and 2nd level wands.
Rogue 1st enhancements: Sneak Attack Damage +3, Trap Saves +2, Open Locks +1, Rogue attack speed boost
I like sneak-attacking while someone else tanks, but I also want to have a useful AC because I solo sometimes, and I enjoy using Cleave and that often draws aggro. More tanks should use intimidate! My AC won't be maximized, but I'm going to make a good effort to keep it high.
AC 36 = 10 +4 DEX, +7 WIS, +2 monk, +2 chaosguarde, +1 Dodge feat +10 house P & J buffs & potions
AC bomes 37 with Ocean or Wind stance. Shield clicky, Haste, Human AC boost and Defensive Fighting can add more, but these have not been used as often after getting access to House buffs. (Used a lot prior to 75 P & J favor)
This is a level 9 character, so has access to +4 ability score items, or +5 race-restricted (+5 WIS helm)
STR 22, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 10 (w/ +2 tome), WIS 24, CHA 10 (cloak of resistance/cha and tome +1)
One level-up point into each of STR & WIS, and probably again at 12th & 16th. Human Adaptability into STR & WIS.
Stunning Blow & Stunning Fist feats. Save DC 22 to 24 in each after adding in Weighted hand-wrap bonus, at level 9.
Level 16 scores are likely to be STR 25-30 and WIS 28 to 32 depending on which monk stance is active.
Quarterstaff & Power Attack is already a 1d6 +24 damage attack at level 9.
This is good for low-average Armor Class monsters that I do not care to use Stunning Fist on. Such as stun-immune creatures. QS occasionally gets glancing blow extra attack. Amusing, but not significant damage.
I typically fight unarmed so as to use handwraps with a large Weighted bonus for stunning.
Less damage than quarterstaff but unarmed strikes animate a little faster than other weapon attacks. My prefered style is frequent stunning which in turn adds a lot of critical hit and sneak attack damage. Ive seen unarmed crits over 40 damage at level 9 (probably had power attack on).
Currently using +1 true law, weighted +8 stunning blow DC and 4% auto-stun per attack.
The 4% chance of automatic stun from Weighted (per hit) is really too good for this game, I think. You can get up to 5% on a weapon. If I Cleave several foes there is a fair chance that one might get stunned for free. It happens a lot.
I chose human race as a challenge to myself and also because I like the extra skill points and human versatility & adaptability. I can imagine ways that a halfling or dwarf could do certain combat-oriented things a little better, but I hope to make the difference not too great.
Hopefully Ive illustrated some ways that a human can be an interesting multiclass with monk & rogue. More human vs other race comparison below, if you care to read on.
Dwarves & Halflings can get better saves than a Human, unboosted. These races might go without a Resistance item, freeing up an item slot. That would be cool. The Human can use a Saves boost for really dangerous fights, such as against beholders or mind-flayers, or running through multiple elite blade-barriers..
Dwarves can have a lot more Hit Points and Tactical enhancements. They would be the best at hit points and stunning and tripping, which is very broken. Bad Turbine! No race should get that advantage alone. All races or classes should have the tactics & toughness lines, or none should, in my opinion!
DEX & WIS-based Halflings have better possible Armor Class. There is no competing with that.
The Halfling likely has a better attack bonus by a few points, which can mean they can leave power attack on all of the time and thus deal damage similar to a STR & WIS based monk that turns power attack off for some reason. The halfling almost certainly take Weapon Finesse for his attack bonus. He probably does not take Weapon Focus in unarmed strikes. My human character will take Weapon Focus: Unarmed to compensate.
Halflings game balance breaker comes with the Halfling Guile and Flanking Bonus enhancements, mostly the +8 bonus damage when sneak attacking. My human needed to take Rogue 1st to get a +3 sneak bonus damage. Turbine should lower the halfling bonus damage amount to +3 total (perhaps cost 2, 4, 6 like other enhancements) because it is too good right now compared to what other race/class combos can get.
What the Human Monk X /Rogue 1 gets:
Extra skill points.
Since I plan to pay double points to maximize Use Magic Device and also have some Open Locks ranks, the human race bonus means I can start with an INT 8, and it counts as a 10 for skill points. I do not plan to maximize Open Locks (no need to), and probably not max Concentration either, so human gives me a few extra points to put into Spot, Jump & Tumble. I plan to carry a Featherfall item, but hope not to have to wear it most of the time.
Human Bonus feat
I think of this as a Dodge or Toughness feat so the human does not have to have really poor Hit Points compared to the dwarf, or lacking AC compared to a Halfling. It think it can be a good strategy to take two or three toughness feats on build monks that do not use Dragonmarks or Two Weapon Fighting feats.
Dodge, Mobility & Spring Attack can be a nice flavor choice of feats, but from the point of view of gaining game-advantage, Power Attack and Cleave or Toughness are much better. Combat Expertise + Improved Trip could be nice, except I think CE is too weak because Turbine does not let it stack with Defensive Fighting, as would be allowed in D&D.
Human Versatility & Adaptability
The Versatility boost to skills is mainly used when I'm opening locks or trying to UMD a difficult item. A human non-rogue would use these boosts for Attack Bonus or Armor Class, or perhaps Saves if not using Ocean Stance. Human Saves boost + Ocean stance = decent chance of evading ELITE traps, some of which can use 170+ damage, multiple hit, with a target Reflex save in the mid to high 30s!
A dwarf can get a good Stunning Blow and Trip DC via the broken dwarf enhancement line, but the Human can raise his STR by +1 via Human Adaptability, and also WIS or DEX by +1 with Greater Adaptability enhancement. Thats better than some other races can do. The halfling is noticibly poor at trip or stunning blow unless a weapon is dedicated to Vertigo or Weighted, and then he is still a bit low. My human build is purposely taking advantage of the higher STR because it can.