Question about Abbot

[croger1520033]

This quest has been out for what almost a year now right?? It has gone through many phases

1. Buggy as hell and totally exploitable.

2. Impossible to beat

3. Buggy and impossible

4. Buggy but possible w/luck and no lag and a lot of practice

So why is it that a quest that is a tough quest not buggy and not exploitable get more attention in an update than a quest that needs some serious love. I am talking about Vision Of Destruction. At one point the devs came on and said that being able to fight your way back to the quest was not intended, but as long as you didn't mind going back it's fine. This is reinforced by their own mechanics for quest xp, I am talking about the counter for re-entry and the penalty you take, and the fact that it takes 5 minutes for it to reset. So why waste any time changing that quest to make it more difficult for people, that is simply stupid. It was hard enough as is and totally not exploitable, and in many cases much, much harder to try and re-enter if you wiped.

What should have happened is they should have taken a look at the abbot again. Not many people run it, this quest is beautiful and has great ambiance. It has an ok story line that they built up through so many mods and updates adding quest after quest just building it's way up to the point when it finally came out.

A few things that I can see that would make it a little better.

1. Make it so that only 2 of the puzzles have to be completed. Keep the ice one the way it is so we still need to complete that one first to keep the fire attack from wiping groups.

2. make it so when he sends you to the puzzles he sends you to a room with three gateways for you to be able to choose a team of 2 people to go in the puzzle they choose 2 people per puzzle ( but make it so only 2 can teleport into any given puzzle ). This will make it so you do not get someone who has a bad connection that night or they just have poor twitch control go into a puzzle they have no chance of completing.

3. work on the lag in the quest, so much of this quest comes down to luck because you have to have 2 people not lagging out at the same time or different times to complete the puzzles.

4. make it so every time you go back to the puzzles the rooms reset unless they were completed, this will give you another ice wand, and more goggles (and come on already fix the bug that keeps you from being able to play your character if you die before deleting the goggles this is one bug that should have been fixed far before any of the other small bugs you have wasted time and effort on fixing).

5. Make the meteor room less of an instant death thing, this goes back to the lag. You shouldn't auto death stuff in the game like this, because if the servers have a heavy load and it lags us out you pretty much die. Maybe make it so we can't heal from magic only using pots, and make it so the meteors only take out 33% of your health each hit, or just make the meteors faster and allow us to try and dodge them as an alternative to the rocks. Allow us both ways to complete this.

6. I read this somewhere else but it was a good point, Take out the instant death from the ice room too. Maybe do 33% a hit every time you hit the water and make it so you can only heal through potions no magic. They still have to be quick but it gives an option in case of lag, they can still recover and won't have a lot of time to heal up.

7. Update the loot again, the loot is sub par for a quest of this level and difficulty.

8. Keep the fight with the abbot the same, I like the fight and he is a bad ass.

9. Keep the phase room the way it is this room is completable as is, it still has lag but still more forgiving than the other two rooms.

10. I also like the idea that you only have three chances to get the puzzles done. It gives you a chance but again make it so only two need to be completed. So often it is hard to even get just one of the puzzles finished.

I think if they made these changes to the quest it would be more fun for everyone, yes I know people have beaten it and so have I but can you honestly say that the completion is as fun as it could be??

Why take months of time to prep for the quest when you can join a pug Visions, Hound, Shroud, Reaver or Queen and know that you have a solid chance of beating it AND will Probably pull better loot. As it is now you have to have practiced this raid with a group to even have a chance at completing it, no way are you going to see pug Abbot's till they do some of these changes. But instead of spending development time on this they waste time fixing stuff that does not need to be fixed.


Side note - with the most recent patch the dev's fixed a few things that were in our favor, I have already read the other posts why the heck didn't they take the development time to fix the alchemical bonus and make it a dodge bonus. I think that would have taken a lot less time than designing a whole room meant to make a perfectly fine quest more difficult.

I would like to make this a thread about other ideas all of you have about how we can make this an awesome quest, one that people will line up to join. Or you can be like every other troll and just flame with **** no one really cares about.

/Rant off

/Flame on

[Bradik_Losdar]

IMHO they ought to just remove the puzzles entirely from the Abbot raid.

THEY are the major roadblock to people running this borked raid - and why you will NEVER, EVER see a pug group in there. It doesn't matter if you're 1st level or 100th level, the puzzles will instant kill you and cause a failure if even only a fraction of a second of lag occurs.

Better to replace them with say a room full of LEVEL appropriate monsters that the Abbot teleports you away to. Two random people in each room against a challenge like that is way more fun than some lag prone puzzles (oops, looks like the rogue and monk got teleported to the room of vampires - good luck to them, lol!).

Its high time the puzzles went bye bye, lets get an Abbot raid that people actually run.

[The10man]

IMHO they ought to just remove the puzzles entirely from the Abbot raid.

THEY are the major roadblock to people running this borked raid - and why you will NEVER, EVER see a pug group in there. It doesn't matter if you're 1st level or 100th level, the puzzles will instant kill you and cause a failure if even only a fraction of a second of lag occurs.

Better to replace them with say a room full of LEVEL appropriate monsters that the Abbot teleports you away to. Two random people in each room against a challenge like that is way more fun than some lag prone puzzles (oops, looks like the rogue and monk got teleported to the room of vampires - good luck to them, lol!).

Its high time the puzzles went bye bye, lets get an Abbot raid that people actually run.

This is the only thing in game that i haven't got a chance to see when I suggest it I get nervous laughter or that dreaded cricket sound. Change it so that it is at least runnable without wasting days of game time practicing twitching. Making it playable would be just like adding new content and loot as it isn't being played/looted now.

[Angelus_dead]

I would like to make this a thread about other ideas all of you have
My idea is the devs should publish a memoir of their decision-making process in the 2-4 weeks after the release of module 5 when they decided NOT to fix the Abbot raid.

It's slightly understandable that some inexperienced people could misjudge difficulty and make a mistake like that. But after they had ALREADY made that same mistake in Module 2 with the Warforged Titan raid, it's unbelievable that anyone could've not only repeated that error, but made it worse.

Seriously, a published account of how in the world they thought it was a good idea to not fix the Abbot would be SO completely hilarious, it would compensate for all the missed-entertainment value the customers might have gotten from playing the raid itself. (The smaller number of remaining customers, that is... because for sure, the Abbot raid caused quite a few nonrenewals)

[debo]

That abbot is raid is so botched it's not even funny. You almost feel bad taking shot at Turbine about it because it is so easy to do. Given my experiences with Turbine, they would NEVER fix this raid the way it NEEDS to be fixed because it would symbolize a failure on their part... and they never ever would admit they screwed up. But, they need to consider that it is a major focus of the game... with a whole mod and previous mini-mods all devoted to the story line...and yet the pinnacle of it is a total mess and never even attempted by 95 percent of the playing population.

In my opinion, they should change it back to the way it USED to be where the puzzles were optional. Make it so that completing the puzzles helps in weakening the Abbot instead of being a REQUIREMENT to beating him. Maybe give him more hps and more insane spells to make it more of an epic battle. Have the inferno survivable but only with some bad ass healing. The focus of the raid needs to turn away from practicing querky puzzles and more to taking the fight to the abbot...if you catch my drift. Who the hell wants to practice all those puzzles? How is that fun?

Or, if they are going to keep it the way it is... have it so it drops some of the most uber loot in game. That loot list is sorry for all the resources, time, and energy that is needed to practice that raid. But, personally I don't think that is the answer. The raid needs to fixed so that players are going to want to run it.

Bah so many things you can go on and on about with this raid. Maybe that monks are out, developers can really sit down, figure this out, and get it right mod 8.

[debo]

bah

[branmakmuffin]

But, they need to consider that it is a major focus of the game... with a whole mod and previous mini-mods all devoted to the story line...and yet the pinnacle of it is a total mess and never even attempted by 95 percent of the playing population.
Just like Stealthy Repo.

They won't bother fixing anything unless it gets to the point where they lose more money from customer dissatisfaction than it will cost to fix. No company does anything primarily for the benefit of its customers. It does things to make money.

It's like Disneyland: once you pay your admission, they don't care if you go on a single ride, unless that makes too many people too mad to come back again.

Edit: I have a question about Costello.

[Rindalathar]

THEY are the major roadblock to people running this borked raid - and why you will NEVER, EVER see a pug group in there.

This is what miffs me the most about the Abbot. Every other quest in the game I can pug and at least have a decent chance of beating said quest. This will never happen in the Abbot. I've heard some say that it's good that we have one quest where only the uberest players can complete it. In theory, I don't think that's such a horrible idea, but the sad and funny thing is, the most uber players in all of DDO could not pug this raid...period.

This pushes people who practice this quest, to only practice with the same small group over and over. What about those of us you can't commit months to practicing a raid and play to have fun and make headway in the game and with their characters? Any mechanic in this group-centered game that discourages grouping on any level, be in with guildmates or puggies, is downright bad. It's sad to see that in a few months it'll be a year since this raid was released and it's still unplayable by so many.

[croger1520033]

I just would like to be able to pug it instead of having to wait for a core grp of players to all be on at the same time. I also wish that the dev's would quit ****ing around with things that aren't even broken and fix thgings that are (i.e. This raid, or the alchemical bonus to armor and shields).

[Lithic]

Just like Stealthy Repo.



Whats wrong with stealthy repo? I run that all the time on my lowbies (usually nom/hard/elite at lvl 3 or so if I am solo), and groups for it are easy enough to fill. Exp is decent too for a quest that takes all of 3mins to do (1min if you have 2 friends who know what to do).

[Kromize]

A few things that I can see that would make it a little better.
1. Make it so that only 2 of the puzzles have to be completed. Keep the ice one the way it is so we still need to complete that one first to keep the fire attack from wiping groups.

2. make it so when he sends you to the puzzles he sends you to a room with three gateways for you to be able to choose a team of 2 people to go in the puzzle they choose 2 people per puzzle ( but make it so only 2 can teleport into any given puzzle ). This will make it so you do not get someone who has a bad connection that night or they just have poor twitch control go into a puzzle they have no chance of completing.


I liked some suggestions, these 2 caught my eye specifically.

One more thing I think would be really helpful, that I just thought of: If you, say, fall off of a phase tile, or fall in the water in the ice room, it just resets it? Re-tele's both of you to the beg. so you can try again... Wouldn't work quite so well for the meteor room I don't think(haven't personally done/tried it myself so dunno...)

[croger1520033]

Some other things I thought of since my first post.

1. The meteor room needs to be changed all together (IMHO). Make it instead of 1 platform where you have to destroy incoming meteors. Maybe make it 10-15 platforms of varying heights and distances, that you have to jump across and dodge meteors along the way. Also if this room is completed he cannot encase you period, if you do not complete this room he still can encase people but the encasing breaks eventually and he cannot encase the whole party, also if room is not completed your grp can heal you for half a normal heal and cannot break the encasement.

2. Make it so when the Ice room is completed the fire attack is slowed and damage is reduced. If it is not done it stays the way it is.

3. The bug with the goggles has got to be fixed already, even if you manage to complete this room before you even dare go back out you have to destroy the goggles or risk not being able to play that character. This bug should have been fixed before the dev's took time out to put a new room in vision of destruction.

4. The phase room maybe make the goggles work on your side but make them phase in and out much quicker. The problem with the way it is now is this, we group with players from the USA all the way to Australia now if you dont think there is a little lag between the 2 you are sick. I am thinking maybe make the tiles stay for maybe 2 seconds and have half of the amount that are up now be up at any given time. Now IMO I think there should be tiles all around that island where the Abbot is, that appear and disappear the whole time you are in the quest, but are invisible unless you complete the phase room. If you complete your entire party can see the platforms and can jump out to avoid the entire attack, but make the flame attack scripted like the reavers what goes up comment. Maybe something like "let flames rain down on you!" as a clue the attack is coming so you can jump to the tiles.

5. Now if you were able to complete all the puzzles the raid is very doable like this, if you complete only 2 it is harder but doable, if you complete 1 it should be doable but very difficult and if none are completed he should be impossible.

The reason I would like to see these changes is the way they are now it requires 0 lag to do, and when was the last time you heard "man I have 0 lag" from your entire party?? Again these are just some of my thoughts, I would love to hear some other ideas you may have on how to change this raid a little.

[query]

*Yells*

"HEY ABBOT!"

*Dodges yet even MORE thrown stuff...and their aim is improving.*

[croger1520033]

So no one else has any ideas on how to change this raid?? Come on some of you have to have a few ideas.

[Angelus_dead]

So no one else has any ideas on how to change this raid?? Come on some of you have to have a few ideas.
Lots of people have lots of ideas. But we don't see much of a reason to post them here, again. We've told Turbine before. If they were interested, they'd already have read them.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

So no one else has any ideas on how to change this raid?? Come on some of you have to have a few ideas.

Don't make failing a puzzle kill you?
endless do-overs.....but even then it would take all day and people would give up.

Making only one puzzle required?
Then they would just cheat so having the puzzles is meaningless.

I wish I knew.

But plz Devs! make this raid completable by the average player! Without cheating!
Complete redo if necessary. But please give us the ability to complete it! (legitimately)

[stockwizard5]

Here is what we posted last October ... not that I think there is much interest at this point from the devs side ...


The Abbot Raid – Re-Worked

I have spent a significant amount of time both in the Abbot Raid and talking to people about the Abbot Raid. I think there is consensus that the players were not happy with original design and are substantially less happy with the current design. It is also obvious that the development team was not happy with the original design (primarily due to the approaches taken to complete the quest that bypassed what they considered key elements of the raid) and is most likely still not pleased with the general player reaction.

The following re-work is derived from many suggestions and discussions and we think has the potential to be used as a framework to help alleviate the current issues and make the raid more fun for everyone. Our ideas are only presented at the conceptual level as a guide to addressing what we see as the major issues for both the players and the developers. This is a very draft work in progress and I will be happy to update any of these ideas as people provide constructive feedback.

Some Assumptions

The Abbot and the puzzles should be very difficult and challenging
The Raid should follow general DDO rules and mechanics
There needs to be a way to include both power gamers and casual players
Any rework needs to utilize the substantial development effort already expended
The current design should be the baseline for the reworked Raid

New Puzzle Objective

Each of the puzzles should be attempted by the entire party teleporting in pairs to multiple copies of the same puzzle. A shrine (both resurrection and healing) should be added to the teleport point of each puzzle, no permanent death effects, and all failed/successful puzzle attempts result in live teleportation back to main platform. Each pair (in parallel) has a fixed amount of time to complete each puzzle before being teleported back to main platform (e.g. 4 minutes). The main platform should be inactive during puzzle solving cycles until the Abbot returns also after a fixed duration (e.g. 5 minutes). Completion of each puzzle should lead to a quest objective that weakens the Abbot during future encounters (e.g. break a crystal helping to power the Abbot’s extra capabilites/philactory). Specifically, completing a puzzle should reduce the power of the Abbot’s associated capability including eliminating it completely if the puzzle is solved by a full six pairs (i.e. breaking all 6 crystals powering that capability).

Abbot Encounter – Round 1

Abbot has same capabilities as current first round (but perhaps more powerful and summoned undead) and teleports entire party to Magic Squares puzzle at 60% health. Each pair that completes puzzle reduces (or eliminates) Dread Wraith’s power.

Abbot Encounter – Round 2

Abbot, fully recovered, has same capabilities with the addition of Dread Wraith(s)* and teleports entire party to Ice Islands puzzle at 40% health. Each pair that completes puzzle reduces (or eliminates) Inferno’s power.

Abbot Encounter – Round 3

Abbot, fully recovered, has same capabilities with the addition of Dread Wraith(s)* and Inferno(s)* and teleports entire party to Asteroids puzzle at 20% health. Each pair that completes puzzle reduces (or eliminates) Encasement power

Abbot Encounter – Round 4

Abbot, fully recovered, has same capabilities with the addition of Dread Wraith(s)*, Inferno(s)*, and Encasement(s)* and is defeated by reducing health to 0%.

Obviously the group is defeated if they are unable to reduce the Abbot to the appropriate level in any round.

Conclusion

The difficulty of the Abbot (and his extra capabilities in particular) should be adjusted so that it is nearly (but not completely) impossible to defeat him without being successful with any of the puzzles but should be such that completing all 18 puzzles makes victory easy. This encourages (but does not require) full groups and does not terminally eliminate PUGs, casual, or inexperienced players from joining experienced groups. The concept of four showdowns of Group vs Abbot, each harder than the last (by a variable amount partially determined by the players themselves), is very appealing.

Everyone gets to do all the puzzles, participate, and enjoy all the encounters making the raid fun throughout its duration. The developers get to enjoy seeing the entire player base participate in the raid and attempt to complete all of the design elements.

There are a myriad of additional reasons why we like this basic idea (e.g. no reason not to do puzzles, etc) but I think most of those are relatively obvious.

[Josh]

My idea is the devs should publish a memoir of their decision-making process in the 2-4 weeks after the release of module 5 when they decided NOT to fix the Abbot raid.

It's slightly understandable that some inexperienced people could misjudge difficulty and make a mistake like that. But after they had ALREADY made that same mistake in Module 2 with the Warforged Titan raid, it's unbelievable that anyone could've not only repeated that error, but made it worse.

Seriously, a published account of how in the world they thought it was a good idea to not fix the Abbot would be SO completely hilarious, it would compensate for all the missed-entertainment value the customers might have gotten from playing the raid itself. (The smaller number of remaining customers, that is... because for sure, the Abbot raid caused quite a few nonrenewals)

I'd love to read that as well. I'd like to know how as self proclaimed "gamers" they thought this was a good idea. Alas, as for the most part the developers only show up when you say noce things about them I doubt it will ever happen. It would be a great read thou!

[Josh]

. Given my experiences with Turbine, they would NEVER fix this raid the way it NEEDS to be fixed because it would symbolize a failure on their part... and they never ever would admit they screwed up..

To me, by not including this raid in the stupid "race to the subterranean" they have already admitted it. Funny how the developers had time to comment on that, but can't even comment on things that are blatantly broken in game isn't it?

[croger1520033]

To me, by not including this raid in the stupid "race to the subterranean" they have already admitted it. Funny how the developers had time to comment on that, but can't even comment on things that are blatantly broken in game isn't it?

Lol, I never even really noticed that, haha it is kind of a "hey we screwed up so we aren't even going to try with this anymore" attitude. I really wish that if nothing else the dev's would come on here and just say finally "hey we did screw up there are no intention's on our part to waste any more dev time trying to fix this" or "hey guys we are aware of the issues that are out there and we have something in the works you will really like". Just something anything acknowledging this and letting us know they intend to make it right. This whole we don't give a **** attitude is just bad PR IMHO.