Drow Monk

[Epic4Ever]

Hello, This will be my first Monk and i am wondering what i should start out with.I do not yet have 32 point build, but i do have drow and that is kinda what i want to make my monk.So if you have any build advice please help me.

Thank You!:):D

[Oran_Lathor]

I'd say 18 dex, 16 wis and split the rest b/w str and con.

[Angelus_dead]

I do not yet have 32 point build, but i do have drow and that is kinda what i want to make my monk.So if you have any build advice please help me.
Drow rarely become monks. The advantages of a drow are intelligence and charisma, and rapier bonuses. None of that is helpful to a monk, who want strength, dexerity, and wisdom.

I would say a 28 point halfling would be a better monk than a drow. A human could be too.

[Oran_Lathor]

For the record, I agree with A_D, but if you're sold on drow - see my above post.

[Epic4Ever]

Yeah im making a 28 halfling now i kinda enjoy that race but thx for the help, but do you think you could give me a basic layout of what my stats should be?

Thank You.:D;)

[Angelus_dead]

Yeah im making a 28 halfling now i kinda enjoy that race but thx for the help, but do you think you could give me a basic layout of what my stats should be?
There's 3 kinds of monks you can make: str monk, dex monk, or str-dex monk (also called a str TWF monk).

The simplest to make work with a 28-point halfling is a dex monk. That means dex is your highest, and all your level-ups go into that.
So: str 12, dex 18, con 14, int 8, wis 14, cha 8. (Optionally str 13 con 12 will let you qualify for Power Attack and Cleave, which are pretty cool).

Assuming you do not have a lot of resources for potions and stuff, you'll want Dragonmark of Healing (at least for a while). Here's a feat order you could use:
1: Dodge, Toughness.
2: Weapon Finesse
3: Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Harmonious Balance
6: Dragonmark of Healing, Discipline
9: Greater Dragonmark of Healing

(If it were me, I'd drop the dragonmarks for TWF)

[Rameses]

There's 3 kinds of monks you can make: str monk, dex monk, or str-dex monk (also called a str TWF monk).
The simplest to make work with a 28-point halfling is a dex monk. That means dex is your highest, and all your level-ups go into that.
So: str 12, dex 18, con 14, int 8, wis 14, cha 8. (Optionally str 13 con 12 will let you qualify for Power Attack and Cleave, which are pretty cool).

Assuming you do not have a lot of resources for potions and stuff, you'll want Dragonmark of Healing (at least for a while). Here's a feat order you could use:
1: Dodge, Toughness.
2: Weapon Finesse
3: Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Harmonious Balance
6: Dragonmark of Healing, Discipline
9: Greater Dragonmark of Healing

(If it were me, I'd drop the dragonmarks for TWF)

:rolleyes:

And thinking like this is why SO-o-O-o-O many Monks fail.
It's not just Str or Dex or Str/Dex builds. Sure these builds can be effective TWF'ing with Vorp. Kama's.
But is this really why you're making a Monk? If so why not roll a Ranger?
But if you really want to build a Monk that stands out.
Your focus isn't going to be on these two stats.
A Wisdom based Water/Crane Monk with Bursting of Enfeebling Wraps owns all.
Even if you don't manage to kill the Mob while it's stunned from a 30+ DC Stunning Fist the mob will have 0 Str and you'll be Auto-Crit'ing every hit.
Now with Way of the Elegant Crane you're getting 4 KI per critical hit. So you'll be be landing Quivering Palm more often than you'd imagine.
With a Halfling it's even more interesting when you invest into Halfling Guile. (Sneak Attacks vs. Stunned Mobs?)

My Halfling Water/Crane Sneak Attack Monk is only level 16 so you might not want to take my word for any of this.

P.S. When did Vorpal start to equate as DPS?

I am, Rameses!

[Aesop]

:rolleyes:

And thinking like this is why SO-o-O-o-O many Monks fail.
It's not just Str or Dex or Str/Dex builds. Sure these builds can be effective TWF'ing with Vorp. Kama's.
But is this really why you're making a Monk? If so why not roll a Ranger?
But if you really want to build a Monk that stands out.
Your focus isn't going to be on these two stats.
A Wisdom based Water/Crane Monk with Bursting of Enfeebling Wraps owns all.
Even if you don't manage to kill the Mob while it's stunned from a 30+ DC Stunning Fist the mob will have 0 Str and you'll be Auto-Crit'ing every hit.
Now with Way of the Elegant Crane you're getting 4 KI per critical hit. So you'll be be landing Quivering Palm more often than you'd imagine.
With a Halfling it's even more interesting when you invest into Halfling Guile. (Sneak Attacks vs. Stunned Mobs?)

My Halfling Water/Crane Sneak Attack Monk is only level 16 so you might not want to take my word for any of this.

P.S. When did Vorpal start to equate as DPS?

I am, Rameses!

I knew you couldn't resist ... its why I didn't bother responding


Aesop

[Rameses]

On a side note OP a Drow's inate INT bonus could be of benefit for a Monk.
Sure people are looking at the negative of it, but a positive spin would be since Monks can achieve a **** decent AC by level 16. I submit that starting with a 10 Int means that you only have to invest 1 build point instead of 3 build points into Int to get Combat Expertise by level 6 as a bonus feat.

of course most people will tell you power attack is more important. I digress. But hopefully you've read my prior post.

I am, Rameses!

[Angelus_dead]

A Wisdom based Water/Crane Monk with Bursting of Enfeebling Wraps owns all.
Even if you don't manage to kill the Mob while it's stunned from a 30+ DC Stunning Fist the mob will have 0 Str and you'll be Auto-Crit'ing every hit.
And what does your Stunning Fist and Enfeebling do against a red-named boss?

Oh yeah- exactly nothing.

Newsflash: the non-red named monsters are the ones we're going to defeat anyway without much trouble. It's fighting the bosses that reveals the difference between a strong warrior and a waste of party space.

[Rameses]

And what does your Stunning Fist and Enfeebling do against a red-named boss?

Oh yeah- exactly nothing.

Newsflash: the non-red named monsters are the ones we're going to defeat anyway without much trouble. It's fighting the bosses that reveals the difference between a strong warrior and a waste of party space.

LOL

Newflash! there is ONE maybe TWO red-named Mobs in a quest. Bringing that up shows a total lack of understanding for the game and what really makes a diverse and good party.

[Angelus_dead]

Newflash! there is ONE maybe TWO red-named Mobs in a quest. Bringing that up shows a total lack of understanding for the game and what really makes a diverse and good party.
Wrong. It's you who don't understand what qualities are needed in a good melee warrior.

If a monster is not immune to stunning and will fail DC 30 fort saves... then we have this guy named the sorcerer, and he's going to Tab-Click, Tab-Click, Tab-Click... and all that stuff dies. The reason the party wants warriors at all is because big strong fancy monsters come up who pop IMMUNE to the sorcerer's attacks, as well are your Stunning Fists.

A TWF dwarf fighter will stun better than you, and DPS red names better as well. Meanwhile, your Stun DC is only +4 above a random low-wisdom monk.

[MrCow]

Wrong. It's you who don't understand what qualities are needed in a good melee warrior.

If a monster is not immune to stunning and will fail DC 30 fort saves... then we have this guy named the sorcerer, and he's going to Tab-Click, Tab-Click, Tab-Click... and all that stuff dies.

From what... Greater Shout?

Stunning vulnerability is not the same as instant death vulnerability, making the comment slightly out of context.

Besides, a high level monk can play the instant death game too... just usually not as fast.

[Epic4Ever]

Yeah thank yall for the advice it really helped me with my new monk.


Thank You! \,,/ <(^_^)> \,,/

[Angelus_dead]

Stunning vulnerability is not the same as instant death vulnerability, making the comment slightly out of context.
The correlation between immunity to stun and immunity to death/hold is almost 100&#37;.

Name some monsters you CAN stun, but can't finger, hold, or stone. It's a very short list. (Eladrins!!?? Maybe)


Besides, a high level monk can play the instant death game too... just usually not as fast.
No. They can't get into that game at all. Without Tab-Click-Dead, they're not part of it.

Clerics and Wizards are the ones who compete at the Sorcerer's game, but more slowly.. Due to the big disparity in targeting a melee attack versus a spell, monks aren't in the running at all. For a DDO monk to use Quivering Palm is almost always a waste of time and Ki, except in quite uncommon circumstances (fire elementals)

[Rameses]

Wrong. It's you who don't understand what qualities are needed in a good melee warrior.

If a monster is not immune to stunning and will fail DC 30 fort saves... then we have this guy named the sorcerer, and he's going to Tab-Click, Tab-Click, Tab-Click... and all that stuff dies. The reason the party wants warriors at all is because big strong fancy monsters come up who pop IMMUNE to the sorcerer's attacks, as well are your Stunning Fists.
Quivering Palm. Tab-click

A TWF dwarf fighter will stun better than you, and DPS red names better as well. Meanwhile, your Stun DC is only +4 above a random low-wisdom monk.
I've yet to witness this because... ALMOST EVERY TWF DWARF WIELDS NEWBSAUSE VORP TOYS instead of trying DPS.

LOL you are proving more and more to me everything I'd ever need to know about you.
Thank you.

I am, Rameses!

[Rameses]

LOL you are proving more and more to me everything I'd ever need to know about you.
Thank you.

I am, Rameses!

And on top of this. You still suggest that a Wisdom based Monk cannot do significant damage to a quest Boss!
2d8base+9str+2d6holy+3d6bursting+2d6<insert elemental attack>+2d6<insert elemental bursting attack (T3)>+16 Sneak Attacks (via Unbalancing Strike) - this adds up to 2d8+9d6+25 damage per hit and unless you haven't noticed a Monks unarmed strikes are faster than a melee's even without any of the wind stances.

That is really not doing any damage in a boss fight is it?
Granted it's not the same damage as a Barbarian's but we're not talking Barbarians you and I are we?

The point comes in a Circle again. The thought process that the only Monk builds that are viable in Game are Str, Dex or Str & Dex is very limited in gaming potential/knowledge.

I am, Rameses!

[bobbryan2]

And on top of this. You still suggest that a Wisdom based Monk cannot do significant damage to a quest Boss!
2d8base+9str+2d6holy+3d6bursting+2d6<insert elemental attack>+16 Sneak Attacks (via Unbalancing Strike)

That is really not doing any damage in a boss fight is it. Granted it's not the same damage as a Barbarian's but we're not talking Barbarians you and I are we?

The point comes in a Circle again. The thought process that the only Monk builds that are viable in Game are Str, Dex or Str & Dex is very limited in gaming potential/knowledge.

I am, Rameses!

You're stacking the numbers. 9 strength damage is 28 strength. I'd certainly call that a strength monk. Additionally, You don't get bursting damage on every hit. You're really looking at 25 damage + sneak attack. Which is on the low end of damage, and that monk even has 28 strength.

Wisdom monks can do a lot of content, don't get me wrong. But that's not an argument as to why to bring a monk along to help tank Suulomades. The lack of intimidate as a class ability necessitates multi-classing to fill the role of an intimi-tank. And the damage output isn't there.

As great as stunning fist is... that ship has already sailed. Dwarven Tactician fighters were all the rage before mod 4. Then they nerfed combat tactics vs red names and that build fell out of style. The wisdom monk you're presenting is just a dwarven tactician redux, but this time... not even as much damage.

[Rameses]

You're stacking the numbers. 9 strength damage is 28 strength. I'd certainly call that a strength monk. Additionally, You don't get bursting damage on every hit. You're really looking at 25 damage + sneak attack. Which is on the low end of damage, and that monk even has 28 strength.
You're right i was referring to having a 20 Str +5damage and +5 from Power Attack which I use only in a boss fight. Sadly I couldn't remember the exact number when I was typing.
And for bursting effects I was listing the total potential of a monks attack chain, but here you are correct. Unless you run with caster that are more than one trick ponies who finger/pk/wof everything.

Wisdom monks can do a lot of content, don't get me wrong. But that's not an argument as to why to bring a monk along to help tank Suulomades. The lack of intimidate as a class ability necessitates multi-classing to fill the role of an intimi-tank. And the damage output isn't there.
It's very limiting to giving advice to a player to build a character only around Boss fights and Raid boss. I don't build characters like this and I don't suggest to players to build like this.
Otherwise I agree Suulomades is an example where a Monk can not offer help in being the main tank. Once again though this is not what a Monk is to the party.

As great as stunning fist is... that ship has already sailed. Dwarven Tactician fighters were all the rage before mod 4. Then they nerfed combat tactics vs red names and that build fell out of style. The wisdom monk you're presenting is just a dwarven tactician redux, but this time... not even as much damage.
I disagree here, the Rage here is Vorp Toys which sad. Tactics is still viable just pushed to the side versus insta-kill, and the need to beat a caster to the kill.

Thanks comments in red
I am, Rameses!

[Quethon]

No such thing as a good monk build.

[Rameses]

No such thing as a good monk build.

lol thanks for the afirmation Que. See ya in game with my Halfling. :p

[query]

have you ACTUALLY played a monk or not?


Look, stop the DPS thinking right now, period. Sorcerers don't do DPS, they do spells. Some spells do DOT and those MAY...MAY be compared similar to DPS, but since the speed of damage is different from the speed of damage per swing of the DPS fighting, it's moot.


Secondly, sorcerer's have a FINITE resource, mana. Monks have an INFINITE resource, attacking.
Even when you consider the argument that "finite" Ki must be used for the attack concepts (assuming they work on the red named bosses like, oh...say....3d6 elemental-like damage per 5 Ki they are vulnerable, or certain special attacks/instadeath-damage the red named are rarely vulnerable to,) Ki's finite resource is recharged per hit, even if one HP of damage. See argument below for Fire Stance later. And any monk taking fists of light, can spend 10 Ki, hit the boss, and EVERYBODY striking the boss will slowly regain health. As per the finishing move of cure light mass, that's more of an emergency don't die when low/dying other players and others are busy on their activities by L 16.

Which reminds me: no matter what, get fire stance I if you meet the minimums period. The generating extra Ki per hit is all but mandatory at times, and can be a godsend if you have weak enemies with some hit points to pull you into the 100-150 Ki before the real mobs begin to show up. Then feel free to switch to whatever stance/non stance fighting you do. With the cap on burning hands being lifted from 5d6, even the finishing move is worth a look for non fire immune creatures up to bosses. Heck, multiple ice-based baddies were dropped from that Stance I tier alone at a L 8-9 monk. I have yet to test it on the POP Risa "boss," but will let you know ASAP.

Now, on the concept that you can hit the big bad, yet not do any damage (thus no Ki recharge...and I found out the hard way this sad truth on the vamp in Church and no silver or holy weapons at the time,) you're just as hosed as the other players with failing enemy attacks. Find some place for about 30 seconds, go water stance and meditate, and start doing light-path elemental finishing moves to benefit your party, or anything else players do when they can't hit a baddie worth beans. Heck flank that halfling monk or rogue so THEY get damage or something. We've all been in the not hitting situation, and I'm sure you have plan B's when no hit succeeds (short of the barbarian of course ;). )


As for monk builds, our OP has already chosen their build, so I'd be interested what they chose before the rest of the thread went all bickery.

As for others, plan your concept ahead of time. Use those build programs now updated with monk.
Consider Wisdom and the skill Concentration are just as important. Other monk types also weren't posted: The wisdom monk is one of them. Wisdom is their main stat, water is often their main stance, and often another stat is focused upon "that best cross-relates to monk special abilities not directly related to wisdom" (often Constitution such as improved trip, Strength for stunning blow, Power attack cleave, but could be even Int for both skills and CE and those other skills from it not str-based. Even Cha monks have been seen using Bluff, imploved feint and diplomacy class or cross class skills. ) Then in most discussions there has been a void in discussion. No, not the void strike monk for 1d4 force damage per hit, but the Ki-based monk. This monk focuses on Wisdom as their primary stat and if Con is not a main stat, it is at least kept in a bonus level number and concentration is maxed and focused upon. This monk also takes way of the tortise and also benifits from extra hitpoints let alone a con skill bonus with no penalty for that animal style.

Any other mixes with multiple focuses or attack/defense methods may be considered hybrid monks, and str/dex is NOT the only one, sheesh. I should know taking a Wis Dex hybrid style with a Fire stance a lot.

And starting with both a 13 Str and Con, I seem mostly to be the last one standing with that CE always on and my now "AC build monk" able to take the hits by them missing (fire stance means even my str is up to 19[...come on affordable str+1 tome...] and my wis was still 20....22 at L 10 even with the fire stance penalty) in parties that begin to drop. Not that I'm invincible mind you. If the entire mob or end boss focuses solely on me and only me, I'm as toast potential as anybody. At least it takes a long long time if I can hit them as I keep healing per strike/mass cure light/other Ki and item moves before either I win or drop. I found this out the hard way too, when I was late for VON 1 and entered just as it finished and the party left, and I had to defeat the entire audience alone (and I did but it wasn't pretty and no healing consumables were used at that time either.)

[Angelus_dead]

The point comes in a Circle again. The thought process that the only Monk builds that are viable in Game are Str, Dex or Str & Dex is very limited in gaming potential/knowledge.
Look, the only thing a monk can do to a monster is hit it. If you want to use Stunning Fist, first you've got to hit the monster.

The only two ways you can hit a monster are with strength or dexterity. Wisdom is not used for attack rolls. If the monk is not high in either strength or dexterity, then he's not hitting the monsters... meaning he's not doing anything to the monsters... meaning he's just taking up space.

Blocking space is only rarely a helpful thing in DDO.

The conclusion is that Stunning Fist requires either Str+Wis or Dex+Wis. Fighting a boss requires either Str or Dex. Therefore, a viable monk can be based on either Str or Dex. How much wisdom you want is a secondary concern, but if you can't hit the monsters, you're useless.

[query]

I dare you to say that playing a monk all the way to L 16!

Who am I kidding? That's like asking a bigot to say there's no such thing as a {insert class or race bigoted against} and dare them to keep one until retirement of them. They have already decided that class or race is a failure and rarely change their mind over the years...err game years. (No, in no way was I implying a REAL life close mindedness to certain beings of certain paths; that would be silly as we are all so free and open minded in the REAL world....like we would NEVER do the No Warforged allowed in activites substituting a real life race in the real world...)


No such thing as a good monk build.

[Angelus_dead]

And starting with both a 13 Str and Con, I seem mostly to be the last one standing with that CE always on
Ok, yeah, here's a hint for everyone:
If you find yourself to be mostly the last one standing, that means you should find a way to start hurting some monsters so you can help the party, instead of watching them die. For a first step, turn off CE and use PA.

[query]

I almost used another word, but I will not libel a poster due to their ignorance.

Monks have finsihing moves. Many light based and some not related to ANY element or light/dark are spell-like abilities which do NOT require to hit the enemy, but require a SAVING throw based on...come on...guess it...well, for those who don't know, mainly WISDOM. You know, that AC/DC/DR/Max Ki, etc stat for monks? So, you need to supress that enemy casting ability a bit and don't give a rat's pitooty if earth strike hits or not? Spend 15 ki on earth strike three times and do the finishing move for 10 more....25 ki; see my earlier post about Ki and its regeneration/meditation.

Your Party members diseased, blind, cursed, stat damaged or enfeebled, possibly even dead? Except for the last state, perhaps YOU are? Then for 30 Ki, you can REMOVE that state, and for more Ki and a sacrifice of your hp, even RAISE that fallen PC who normally would raise you, and it's not a one-use clicky between rests! Yes, those difficulty at the begining, receptive earth and so forth enhancements affect ALL the party, including you. So when you are disease immune and a mummy hits you, just remove your/their curse after you remove their diseases. And if you "shield block" an enemy while that other PC casts that vunerable spell or does that attack...nahh, then you'd have to start convincing people you could do that with magic missile, and NO boss is vunerable {whispered to} REALLY?! NOO! People DO that in STK?!

I think we get the point...oh hope we do.


Yeah, my 14 wiz/2 rogue is still gimped soloing those ellies in Rainbow elite, like my 1 rogue rest ranged only Deepwoods sniper with ONLY 3 multishot ranger is worthless, and my pure rogue is trap only..and now I think the sarcasm is making the rest get the point.



Look, the only thing a monk can do to a monster is hit it. If you want to use Stunning Fist, first you've got to hit the monster.

The only two ways you can hit a monster are with strength or dexterity. Wisdom is not used for attack rolls. If the monk is not high in either strength or dexterity, then he's not hitting the monsters... meaning he's not doing anything to the monsters... meaning he's just taking up space.

Blocking space is only rarely a helpful thing in DDO.

[Angelus_dead]

Monks have finsihing moves. Many light based and some not related to ANY element or light/dark are spell-like abilities which do NOT require to hit the enemy, but require a SAVING throw based on...come on...guess it...well, for those who don't know, mainly WISDOM.
Oh really, wow! I did not know this. Coul dyou list a few of the finsihing moves like this?


You know, that AC/DC/DR/Max Ki, etc stat for monks? So, you need to supress that enemy casting ability a bit and don't give a rat's pitooty if earth strike hits or not? Spend 15 ki on earth strike three times and do the finishing move for 10 more....25 ki
Could you list a few of the enemy caster I should suppress?

[query]

So your ignorance again shows up. Oh, did I mention I was using my finishing moves to try and save the party from DYING while fighting injuring the enemy (since only hit monsters generate Ki) but even then my party fell even with the clerics casting the warriors hitting and the others buffing or debuffing?
Oh yeah, I did kill the boss and took them to a res shrine you once again speak before thinking poster you.

So, care to share how long you ever played a monk? No need for me to list my exoerience and level successions. This is all on you.


Ok, yeah, here's a hint for everyone:
If you find yourself to be mostly the last one standing, that means you should find a way to start hurting some monsters so you can help the party, instead of watching them die. For a first step, turn off CE and use PA.

And to the rest of the posters: First off keep CE on if you notice you are hitting without difficulty. Turn if off when you are not. If oyu don't have power attack since you use at best 1.5 str items, don't worry if you play a monk, your increase in attacks compared to using a weapon (even monk weapon) will mean more attacks thus equal out the damage.

[Inspire]

No such thing as a good monk build.

Hrmm... Im Disinclined To Agree With You.

My Monk Has Solo'd Every Vale Quest(On Normal, But Still) Except Running With Devils, Where I Have Enormous Trouble With That Red Named Paladin Boss Fight, But Im Working On It, And Ritual Sacrafic, The Named Orthon Is A Real Toughy Too.

Im Just Curious As To What You Think Makes A Certian Build "Good".

Monks Currently(And I Tend To Agree) That DPS Vs. Arraetrikos And Suulomades Is Low, However, The DPS With My Monk Is About The Same As My S&B Batman Build With A Transmuting Scimitar(Crafted), Whereas Untouchable Uses +5 Tramsmuting QStaff Of Deception(For SA), But I Like To Spam Unbalancing/Eagles Claw/Healing Ki When Im Fighting Those Fellers, And If There Is No Bard Around Walk The Sun Is Very Handy To Have, Along With Alligning The Heavens Which Now Works Properly.

Now My Dual Deathnip Barbarian And 2hF Barbarian With A Transmuting GA(Crafted) Blow My Monk Out Of The Water, But Even With Dual W/P Rapiers On Pearce, I Fine It VERY Difficult To Solo With Them, So I Think It Comes Down To Play Style, And Circumstance.

[query]

The TWO classes I haven't gotten to high levels yet are my pure barb and pali w rogue evasion build, so I'm surprised it's diffcult to solo with the below setup? Thanks for the heads up and I look forward to soloing my monk even more....just more buffed next time I do a certain drow "wilderness" area from house P :(


Edit: Ooooh, unbalancing works on reddies too! Forgot that one, thanks!


Hrmm... Im Disinclined To Agree With You.

My Monk Has Solo'd Every Vale Quest(On Normal, But Still) Except Running With Devils, Where I Have Enormous Trouble With That Red Named Paladin Boss Fight, But Im Working On It, And Ritual Sacrafic, The Named Orthon Is A Real Toughy Too.

Im Just Curious As To What You Think Makes A Certian Build "Good".

Monks Currently(And I Tend To Agree) That DPS Vs. Arraetrikos And Suulomades Is Low, However, The DPS With My Monk Is About The Same As My S&B Batman Build With A Transmuting Scimitar(Crafted), Whereas Untouchable Uses +5 Tramsmuting QStaff Of Deception(For SA), But I Like To Spam Unbalancing/Eagles Claw/Healing Ki When Im Fighting Those Fellers, And If There Is No Bard Around Walk The Sun Is Very Handy To Have, Along With Alligning The Heavens Which Now Works Properly.

Now My Dual Deathnip Barbarian And 2hF Barbarian With A Transmuting GA(Crafted) Blow My Monk Out Of The Water, But Even With Dual W/P Rapiers On Pearce, I Fine It VERY Difficult To Solo With Them, So I Think It Comes Down To Play Style, And Circumstance.

[Angelus_dead]

So, care to share how long you ever played a monk?
Well, no, I don't think I will. It would be insulting for me to tell you, because anyone who's been paying attention to DDO's monks would already know this.

[Inspire]

A Wisdom based Water/Crane Monk with Bursting of Enfeebling Wraps owns all.

Granted This Is What My Monk Is, And Our Builds Are Very Similar, However, Your Being Hippocritical If You Think These Are The Only Great Monk Builds In The Game.


My Halfling Water/Crane Sneak Attack Monk is only level 16 so you might not want to take my word for any of this.

Humility Ftw! Lol... Anyways, There Are Alot Of Good Monk Builds On Thelanis, But I Agree, If You Havent Played A Monk, You Dont Know First Hand Its Advantages And Disadvantages.

Granted You And I Both Ate A Book Of +2 Tomes At Creation, So It Would Be Hard To Relate To The OP As He Is A 28Pt, With No Tomes/Gear Waiting.

[query]

You don't

And as for your above quip disguised as a question, I found ANY caster (edit: using the monk finishing/special) can fail their save. Yes even those undead ones. (Edit: funny, I mentioned one of the examples earlier in a previous post what to do when you can't hit the bad guy, and found this supression worked on the red named)


I'm not going to tell you which because anyone who's been paying attention in the game would already know.
You are just (edit trying to) insult people (edit by flaming/trolling) so no need to add that to the above sentence.


Well, no, I don't think I will. It would be insulting for me to tell you, because anyone who's been paying attention to DDO's monks would already know this.

[Inspire]

P.S. When did Vorpal start to equate as DPS?

Unfortunatly, Dual Vorps With A High Confirm Check Is Great Vs. The Inflated Devil Hps, In The Shroud/Vision If You Are Without W/P, W/E, M/B Or Anyother Effect That Allows Auto Criticals/Death In A Matter Of 5-7 Swings.

Or Anywhere Where DPS < Insta Kill

[query]

I didn't eat a 2 tome, but he was 32 poitns, so I will say from my Risa experince (it just won't recognize my 1750+...) there is a difference with those 4 points placed correctly.





Granted This Is What My Monk Is, And Our Builds Are Very Similar, However, Your Being Hippocritical If You Think These Are The Only Great Monk Builds In The Game.



Humility Ftw! Lol... Anyways, There Are Alot Of Good Monk Builds On Thelanis, But I Agree, If You Havent Played A Monk, You Dont Know First Hand Its Advantages And Disadvantages.

Granted You And I Both Ate A Book Of +2 Tomes At Creation, So It Would Be Hard To Relate To The OP As He Is A 28Pt, With No Tomes/Gear Waiting.

[Angelus_dead]

And as for your above quip disguised as a question, I found ANY caster can fail their save. Yes even those undead ones.
No, that is not an answer to the question. However, please don't bother trying to answer it.

It would be cool, however, if you could give an answer to my earlier question: What are some of the finihsing moves which have a wisdom-based DC and do not have an attack roll?

[query]

Take monk enhancements
Step 2: Take light path
Step 3: If applicable, make sure saves or resist penetrations (or other) is high enough to affect enemy or stop future saves.
(Make sure you have enough Ki for all listed and below)
Step 4a If elemental/fists of light click three times to list finishing move
Step 4b: If not, usually click to activate. These may be tied to a certain element's mastery and may require a mimimum base+inherent ability of that element's mastery. Some may duplicate feats like Eagle's Claw duplicates Improved Sunder, but some are unique such as the speeding of ranged items for shuriken beyond haste speed.
Step 5: Repeat if necessary.
Step 6: If you took the dark path, please note that even the finishing move for the fists will supress healing for ALL enemies if they do not resist it.
Since you were so...helpful with your experince, you can go list them yourself. SO go list them yourself.

Oh really, wow! I did not know this. Coul dyou list a few of the finsihing moves like this?


Could you list a few of the enemy caster I should suppress?

[query]

No, that is not an answer to the question. However, please don't bother trying to answer it.

It would be cool, however, if you could give an answer to my earlier question: What are some of the finihsing moves which have a wisdom-based DC and do not have an attack roll?

I'll start being helpful to you, when you stop posting trolling answers. And yes it IS an answer, just not the one you were hoping to prove you were right all the time about or shred on somebody else with impunity. And I listed an answer how you can look up all the ones you need. This assumes the person understands how a finishing move works and understands some of those are an area affect thus do not need an attack roll. Make sure the person practices them in a tavern so they may mouse over them and read the moves. Others may not have been on risa to learn that basic move, so I hope you (plural) know that's a good way to learn about them while recharging your (plural) ki and resetting your (plural) meditations.

To others, I apologize if my answers in any way appeared insulting to you. That was not the intent.

[Angelus_dead]

I'll start being helpful to you
No, it's not a question of you being helpful to me. The situation is that if you explain more fully what you're thinking, I may be able to point out where your mistake is. (And stop the spread of misinformation)

Since you won't explain, I'll take a guess. There aren't many possibilities, so I think I'll guess right. You're hinting that there is some useful finisher which has a saving throw and does not have an attack roll. There are 14 finishers total. One is a heal that can only hit your friends, and 4 are buffs that can only hit your friends, so those 5 are excluded. Of the 9 that can hit enemies, one of them (Karmic Strike) has no saving throw involved, so that can't be it. 7 of them are a special effect delivered along with a melee attack (Trembling Earth, Freezing Lifeblood, Touch of Despair, etc).

There's only one left that you could be talking about: Fire-Fire-Fire, which was first called Burning Hands and now is Breath of Dragon. And that brings up the problem: as of update 7.1, the saving throw calculation on Breath of Dragon is broken so that it doesn't properly add in the bonuses it should be, and high-level monsters will really never fail their saves.


And yes it IS an answer, just not the one you were hoping to prove you were right all the time about or shred on somebody else with impunity.
No, it is not an answer to the question. I shall explain with some pasting:
The question was "Could you list a few of the enemy caster I should suppress?"
You replied with "I found ANY caster can fail their save"

To understand why that's not an answer, I will present you with an analogy:
SWAT team sniper: "Hey chief, who should I shoot?"
Incident commander: "I found ANY human can die from a head wound"

In short, the question was asking for some examples of where it was a good idea to hit a caster with Trembling Earth, as opposed to the other things you could do to him (like Stunning Fist or even plain old Enduring Strike for DPS). You gave no answer.


And I listed an answer how you can look up all the ones you need. This assumes the person understands how a finishing move works and understands some of those are an area affect thus do not need an attack roll. Make sure the person practices them in a tavern so they may mouse over them and read the moves.
Before I wasn't sure if you were joking, but apparently you've proved that you're not. So, for your information, I was possibly the very first DDO player to do a finishing move on a monk. Or if not the first, within the first three (because that's everyone that was on Risia in the first 15 minutes). I was absolutely the first player to publish a list of all the finishing moves (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=147352).

That's something that any DDO player who pays attention to the monk information on the web forums would already have known.

[query]

Sorry you didn't get it when you tried to be entrapping: oh really, could you list some?


But since you know, go ahead and feel free to post your entire list of all finishing moves and your experience with WHERE it fails. I have found if it mimics a known spell, same properties apply. However KI abilities sometimes DO allow when they should not. I know a flaming hands finishing moved a red boss what allededly should have blocked it when the spell did. It was weeks ago when I accidently had my combat log and honestly I can't remember which one it as except it was some undead caster in P.

As for water, earth and air, YES I have seen red bosses AFFECTED. Not all of them, but some. Undead included, not counting slow. Void of course works, and well, you know them all, so why do I need to go on?

So, when you feel like giving sort of answers, I will be glad to comply. When you actually give complete answers (even if acting like you are a sage way of doing it in a not humble and very authoritive way) so will I.


And if you flame or troll, so....no, but be warned you are not allowed to do so.

(That's something that any DDO player who pays attention to the monk information on the web forums would already have known.) That is your example of what not to do.

Nuff said. Care to be civil with me and the rest of us? I will if you will, I'll even make my posts friendlier to you.

Addition: oh yeah, found out that second water Tier ability also affects red named up to the shroud+ perhaps. See above posting by Inspire.


No, it's not a question of you being helpful to me. The situation is that if you explain more fully what you're thinking, I may be able to point out where your mistake is.


No, it is not an answer to the question. I shall explain with some pasting:
The question was "Could you list a few of the enemy caster I should suppress?"
You replied with "I found ANY caster can fail their save"

To understand why that's not an answer, I will present you with an analogy:
SWAT team sniper: "Hey chief, who should I shoot?"
Incident commander: "I found ANY human can die from a head wound"



Before I wasn't sure if you were joking, but apparently you've proved that you're not. So, for your information, I was possibly the very first DDO player to do a finishing move on a monk. Or if not the first, within the first three (because that's everyone that was on Risia in the first 15 minutes). I was absolutely the first player to publish a list of all the finishing moves (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=147352).

That's something that any DDO player who pays attention to the monk information on the web forums would already have known.

[Aesop]

ok minus the epeen and all that ... I do have one question... Does the Dark Path Finisher that stops Healing Affect Regeneration?



If it does ... that could be AWESOME and maybe a good reason to take a Dark Monk into the Shroud... or other places that have high healing/regening mobs


Aesop

[query]

please find out! That's a very possible bright spot for those dark pathed monks!

[Inspire]

Addition: oh yeah, found out that second water Tier ability also affects red named up to the shroud+ perhaps. See above posting by Inspire.

Hmm, Well I Think A_D Is Talking About "Finishers". But Yes, Any "2nd Tier" Enhancment Buy-Out Will Work On Any Mob.

Ie: Air-Thousand Stars, Water-Unbalancing Strike, Fire-Eagles Talon, And Earth-Iron Fist.

[Rameses]

A_D I'll humor you.
Yes you need a good to hit bonus to strike an opponent, wether that to hit bonus comes from your STR or DEX.

However, you stated that there are 3 types of builds and these focus on two stats STR and DEX or a combination of the two.
This is were I interjected.

Inspire is correct in that our monks are very similar in build. And I am not blindly beleiving that Wisdom based are the best builds. I''ve run with some of the better STR and/or DEX monks on Argonessen. But none dominated like mine. Humility? Not really. Honesty? To a fault.
As others defend their stance on Str and Dex, so shall I heartedly defend mine: build balanced, fight like a Rogue, kill like a Fighter.


Now I should state I am not talking raids. there I'd use standard melee tactics.

A_D I seriously do not believe that you are a newb/noob.
But I do think you lack the vision/will to build "outside the box."

[query]

I'll shatter it and look for items!

Seriously and in fairness:

In risa when I tried my dex based monk, a Str dwarf monk kicked my butt in low (L 4) levels arena-type combat (when we did that sensai day thing.) That made me realize that you need to be able to either take down your target or stop them from attacking period. So in Thelanis a surprising stunning blow for non red names was quite effective and also allowed me to use crit-based attacks. It seems not all mobs have orc/troll-based dcs and at higher levels; I also loved my later improved trip when that (if used first) failed. They are not hitting me when on the ground.

But if you initiiate attacks, and are not a tank build, that's the "inside the box" guarantee to become paste with the heavy damagers, or even having the REST of the mob turn to YOU (ouch ouch ouch.) AC a Shmee, yer health is going DOWN!


A_D I'll humor you.
Yes you need a good to hit bonus to strike an opponent, wether that to hit bonus comes from your STR or DEX.

However, you stated that there are 3 types of builds and these focus on two stats STR and DEX or a combination of the two.
This is were I interjected.

Inspire is correct in that our monks are very similar in build. And I am not blindly beleiving that Wisdom based are the best builds. I''ve run with some of the better STR and/or DEX monks on Argonessen. But none dominated like mine. Humility? Not really. Honesty? To a fault.
As others defend their stance on Str and Dex, so shall I heartedly defend mine: build balanced, fight like a Rogue, kill like a Fighter.


Now I should state I am not talking raids. there I'd use standard melee tactics.

A_D I seriously do not believe that you are a newb/noob.
But I do think you lack the vision/will to build "outside the box."

[Inspire]

Inspire is correct in that our monks are very similar in build. And I am not blindly beleiving that Wisdom based are the best builds. I''ve run with some of the better STR and/or DEX monks on Argonessen. But none dominated like mine. Humility? Not really. Honesty? To a fault.

I Agree, I Run Through Trash Mobs Faster Than Almost Any Build, Did A Ritual Sacrafice With My Friend Shunn, Dual W/P Barbarian On Thelanis(Very Good Player Btw), And I Never Failed A Stunning Blow(Well 1 Ok, But I Hit The Orthon With The Teifling At The End, And He Saved) But The KC Ended Around 89 To 113 In His Favor, However The Jerkbag Did Steal Alot Of My Stun Kills:D, Just An Example, But Another Str Based Monk Diablo On Thelanis, Out DPS's Me Hands Down Vs. Raid Bosses, I Dont Know Th eParticulars Of His Build, But Yeah, Alot Of Good Variety Out There.


A_D I seriously do not believe that you are a newb/noob.
But I do think you lack the vision/will to build "outside the box."

I Disagree, Ive Seen Many Insightful... More "Colorful" Posts By A_D However, He Is Stubborn. This May Be A Confusing Trait At Times.

[Inspire]

Even if you don't manage to kill the Mob while it's stunned from a 30+ DC Stunning Fist the mob will have 0 Str and you'll be Auto-Crit'ing every hit.

30+ Dc?

10Base + 8Monk + 10(30)Wisdom Mod. = 28Dc On My Monk, To Get A 30Dc You Need 34Wisdom.

Edit: I Have No Trouble Landing A 28Dc, But Still... Your Monks Wisdom Is 34 Rameses?

[Rameses]

30+ Dc?

10Base + 8Monk + 10(30)Wisdom Mod. = 28Dc On My Monk, To Get A 30Dc You Need 34Wisdom.

Edit: I Have No Trouble Landing A 28Dc, But Still... Your Monks Wisdom Is 34 Rameses?


nope according a dev in another conversation: wieghted bonuses are staking just not showing in tool tip.
Still sitting at a 29 DC according to the tip, but I'll take the devs word that this is a visual bug.

[Inspire]

nope according a dev in another conversation: wieghted bonuses are staking just not showing in tool tip.
Still sitting at a 29 DC according to the tip, but I'll take the devs word that this is a visual bug.

I Use +3 Icy Burst Handwraps Of Weighted 5% As My Main Weapon, And I Dont Notice Any Difference.

[Inspire]

Btw, When You Showed Me Your Monk Last He Had A 31Wisdom In Stance, Which = A 28Dc, Have You Looted A +3 Wisdom Tome Since Then?

[Rameses]

Btw, When You Showed Me Your Monk Last He Had A 31Wisdom In Stance, Which = A 28Dc, Have You Looted A +3 Wisdom Tome Since Then?

I do loot and raid a lot. I thought that would be obvious by the 6 +2 Tomes that were used at character creation.


I am, Rameses!

[Inspire]

I do loot and raid a lot. I thought that would be obvious by the 6 +2 Tomes that were used at character creation.

I Caught That:D, Lol... I Dont Know Anyone Who Would Use A Full Book Of +2 Tomes On A Monk:rolleyes:

[query]

from patches and my notes. Add that to the monk moves list link being from Risa, throwing all but the listed game text moves out the window.


And even then, have to wait til AFTER Monday to see what is what or what is what but isn't listing or what is what but isn't working (or not working still like our beloved handwraps.)


Gads, this is one of the )(*)(*) reasons I quite the Shroud for a while.


But if nothing is promptly updated (yeah my blocking spells on a red named was between patches and now I have to ask bug unknown exploit another text mixup listing as one but meant many....) I'll step up and try to recatalouge the monk moves, finishers and special abilities. Time permitting...this is the most time I ever had on the forums in months.

[Quethon]

lol thanks for the afirmation Que. See ya in game with my Halfling. :p

Is that a threat?