Cr5 Troll. AC39 same as AC10?

[Alavatar]

Has anyone calculated what a CR5 Troll's to-hit bonus is? I ask because I am leveling up a character and I have a AC39 against them, yet they never seem to miss. The same with ogres as well. I have tested this in Stormcleave, The Forgotten Caverns, and Gwylan's Stand and all results point to me getting hit an abundant number of times, while all other NPCs (elves, drow, hobgoblins, minotaurs, etc,) all seem to miss much more frequently.

Any thoughts?

[Alavatar]

So, I noticed that I was actually getting hit by nearly everything, including the CR3 ogres in Sorrowdusk. I decided to test my equipment, thinking that there might be a bug.

I noticed a significant difference once I removed my Chaosgarde. Now, things actually miss me. Weird.

[Slayer918]

I was running around sorrowdusk at level 8 with I think a 37 AC with no problems got hit more than 5% of the time but less than 25% of the time (didn't take count or anything) so figure a to-hit of 19-22. However a few days later at level 9 with 40 AC I was hit 75-85% of the time... My AC went up, but effectiveness SIGNIFICANTLY declined against the same mobs. Maybe chaosgaurds are bugged?

[captain1z]

Not sure whats happening in your case but........


At AC 33 It feels like they have a 50/50 chance of hitting me meaning about +20-23 to hit

At AC 40 they almost never touch me, maybe just on a 20 and they dont always confirm (either that or they can hit me on a 19 as well)


these would be the ogres and trolls on sorrowdusk isle... not in the quests and I think they are cr 5-7.

(If it helps he is NG and cant/doesnt wear chaosgaurds)

[Slayer918]

ok just spent 10-20 minutes letting these ogres beat on me...

47 AC with chaosgaurds = only hitting me on 20's (no surprise there)

45 AC w/o chaosgaurds = only hitting me on 20's (no surprise there)

42 AC with chaosgaurds (No CE) = only hitting me on 20's (maybe 19's as well)

40 AC w/o chaosgaurds (No CE) = only hitting me on 20's (maybe 19's as well)

40 AC with chaosgaurds = hit every swing

38 AC w/o chaosgaurds = only hitting me on 19-20 (maybe 17-18 as well, kinda hard to tell)

"Somethings afoot at the circle K"...

EDIT: At the 45-47 range it wasn't just like they were only hitting me on a 20 really, they NEVER hit me, 100 misses in my combat log without a hit. The 40 AC with chaosgaurds also seemed bug in that they never rolled a 1 (although I have a signifacantly smaller pool of data because I end up dieing when collecting this data...).

[vyvy3369]

40 AC with chaosgaurds = hit every swing
Must be something else - just tried with 37 AC while wearing chaosgarde and had almost 50 swings in a row miss.

[Korvek]

It's a bug. I've noticed it every now and then with the Fragment of the Silver Flame. I think the protection effect somehow doesn't apply properly and penalizes your armor class at times. It's fairly random from what I've seen

[Oran_Lathor]

I remember a post a long time ago by a warforged paladin who would get hit every swing (by cr.5 kobolds even) whenever he worse his fragment of the silver flame. I'm guessing the same sort of bug exists with the protection from chaos on the chaosgarde as exists (existed?) with the prot. from evil on the fragment.

Sadly, there are so many variables it'll probably be a pain to figure out the exact nature of the bug. I know i'll be doing some testing with all my chaosgarde wearers though.

[Slayer918]

Must be something else - just tried with 37 AC while wearing chaosgarde and had almost 50 swings in a row miss.

Well the only difference between that and the 38 AC whiff, whiff, whiff, was the chaosgaurds so...

More trials this time 37 AC with chaosgaurds hit, hit, hit, take them off go to 35 whiff, whiff, whiff

Maybe its the combination of chaosgaurds and halflings idk its gonna be impossible to tell what the difference maker actually is...

[Slayer918]

The bug does not occur when I am wearing my chaosgaurds but I take off my +1 protection ring

The bug does not occur when I am wearing my +1 protection ring but I take off my chaosgaurds

The bug does not occur when I am wearing neither

The bug does occur when I am wearing both of them

It must be the interaction of a Protection ring and the chaosgaurd deflection portion of the bracers

A deflection bonus from SoF doesnt cause the bug either, in fact since SoF overrides the ring it also seems to prevent the bug from occuring...

[Borror0]

SSlayer, did you try with +5 Protection (or +2, or +3, or +4)?

[Lithic]

And how bout with a protection cloak or necklace?

[Oran_Lathor]

That's it, Slayer! Same thing that was mentioned in the post I was talking about above. I couldn't remember the specifics.

[vyvy3369]

SSlayer, did you try with +5 Protection (or +2, or +3, or +4)?
I had spectacular optics on when I was trying earlier and didn't have this problem.

[Treerat]

Anyone tested this against lawful or neutral enemies? If it's the deflection portion (and that is activating only against chaotic enemies) that is acting up then the events shouldn't repeat, and hence pinning down a possible problem. If it does repeat its back to square one.

[redoubt]

This is a great thread with great responses!!! :D

Are you able to visually check your AC number or are you going into combat each time to check? I'll try to get my ranger in and test the chaos guards versus the +4 protection on the white dragon robe.

[Slayer918]

bug doesn't occur with a +5 protection necklace + chaosgaurds, my bet is since the deflection portion on the chaosgaurds is +2 that anything over +2 somehow overrides it. (Important note, the +1 protection ring used in above posts was bound, may or may not have any baring on results)

unfortunately I lack the items to test +2, +3, +4 protection items of varius slots, I will however be looking for lawful/neutral enemies to test

EDIT: Did not occur against a lawful enemy

[winsom]

in your testing, if you run into the problem where monsters are failing to miss you, when previous tests shown that they should be missing: try swapping your chaosguarde or protection item to an item that does not give any sort of armor or protection bonus. Then immediately switch back to the chaosguarde. See if that fixes the problem.

This would be terrible bug, as my newer melee characters often wear both Chaosguarde & Fragment of the Silver Flame. I want more protection, not less !

[query]

Trolls and Orc are chaotic, right? Or is one or both nettral?

Being DDO, i can't simply look up my MM as I have no guarantee they follow D&D or even Eberron "standard" rules.

[Alavatar]

Trolls and Orc are chaotic, right? Or is one or both nettral?

Being DDO, i can't simply look up my MM as I have no guarantee they follow D&D or even Eberron "standard" rules.

Trolls should be Chaotic and Hobgoblins should be Lawful.

Slayer, you bring up a great point as I was also wearing a +1 protection cloak at the time. Now that I have Spectacular Optics I will go out and test this again.

Edit: Thanks for doing all of that testing, by the way! Great job!

[Strykersz]

Return of an old bug!

A while back, it was discovered that protection from evil and a protection item with a lower +protection than pfe(1) would result in you being made auto hit. It sounds like this bug has returned and is effecting chaosguardes.