Are people beating the abbot?

[Helmet]

I noticed a few days ago that there is new loot posted for the abbot.

Are people beating the abbot??

if so I am curious if they are taking a full raid, or just 6 ppl...

[somms]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=150488

[Milolyen]

People have been beating the abbot for awhile now on all servers .... even before mod 7 changes. It takes practice and those that did formed up static groups and didn't post about it because of the forums over all negativity toward the quest.

Milolyen

[Angelus_dead]

People have been beating the abbot for awhile now on all servers .... even before mod 7 changes. It takes practice and those that did formed up static groups and didn't post about it because of the forums over all negativity toward the quest.
Haha. Translation: "They didn't post because they win by exploiting, and didn't want to get in trouble"

[Zaodon]

Haha. Translation: "They didn't post because they win by exploiting, and didn't want to get in trouble"

I really hate when people toss around the word "Exploit" incorrectly.

If there is a Perch (a perch is something in any MMORPG you can jump up on and shoot down from) that you can Jump to, that's not an exploit, because its not a game "bug" that you are taking advantage of. Its simply smart tactics. Players perch all over DDO. In most (but not all) cases, monsters can fire back. Perches like this are designed into the terrain on purpose by the Devs. Perches and perching are a well-known, integral part of all MMORPGs. Perching is not some new concept no Dev has ever heard of before.

Players perch in C06 from the bridge when attacking the altar in the gargoyle room.
Players perch in Stormcleave when they range the Minotaurs in the valley.
Players perch in Waterworks when they kill the kobolds from above (although Turbine added a ramp for that one).
Players perch in the Vale in certain places where you can easily jump up on the concrete blocks.

The list goes on and on and on. None of it is exploiting.

[Thriand]

yes there are people out there beating the abbot, and some of us are out there doing it completely legit.

[Angelus_dead]

I really hate when people toss around the word "Exploit" incorrectly.
Yes, I hate it too. So, I suggest you stop doing it.

[Zaodon]

Yes, I hate it too. So, I suggest you stop doing it.

Perching never has, is not, and never will be an exploit.

[Turial]

yes there are people out there beating the abbot, and some of us are out there doing it completely legit.

One of these days I need to bribe my way into going along with you guys to see the magic.

[Angelus_dead]

yes there are people out there beating the abbot, and some of us are out there doing it completely legit.
That may be.

However, I know for a fact that during module 6, multiple groups were beating the Abbot with blatant exploits. They told me and showed me, but they refused to post it publicly. They didn't even release the four altered Abbot raid loot stats, for fear of getting their exploit shut down.

All I know is that some have been beating it with exploits. I don't even know if those exploits still work- they might have been removed in the 7.0 or 7.1 patch for all I can tell. Are others beating it legitimately? Maybe, or maybe they're using some borderline exploits as well. It can be hard to tell where to draw the line.

[Angelus_dead]

Perching never has, is not, and never will be an exploit.
Wrong. Also, ignorant.

[ArkoHighStar]

Wrong. Also, ignorant.


The following activities are NOT considered to be violations, but tactics ("cheesy" or not), that may or may not be "fixed" in the future.
Corralling a monster in a corner or other area, as long as the monster remains "conscious" and continues to attempt defense and/or escape.
Using the environment (not a ladder) to climb to another location that does not result in monsters or quest events becoming broken.
"Perching" on geometry to get a better ranged shot at a monster, as long as the monster remains responsive.

The key here is perching in general is not considered an exploit by Turbine, they reserve the right however to remove said perches if they feel that in that particular instance the perch creates unexpected result in the eyes of the developer.

[Milolyen]

Haha. Translation: "They didn't post because they win by exploiting, and didn't want to get in trouble"

No ... translation is ... anytime threads where opened to discuss stratigies there where a **** load of people that would do nothing but bash the quest and make multiple posts about how it was impossible and how it was a stupid quest. The people that liked it and where discussing stratiges got fed up with it and stopped posting.

I just love it when people cry exploit when others can do stuff that they can't.

Milolyen

[Rowanheal]

Yes it is being beat by teams of people who have worked hard to get the strategy down...months of work paying off.

I hear rumors of other unmentionables which we will NOT argue in the open forums... right boys?

Love this Raid.

See ya in Stormreach,

-R

[bobbryan2]

No ... translation is ... anytime threads where opened to discuss stratigies there where a **** load of people that would do nothing but bash the quest and make multiple posts about how it was impossible and how it was a stupid quest. The people that liked it and where discussing stratiges got fed up with it and stopped posting.

I just love it when people cry exploit when others can do stuff that they can't.

Milolyen

Trust me.... that's not what happened.

When people beat stuff like that, they let people know. That's why when it was being beaten after Mod 7, people said things about it.

[Zaodon]

The following activities are NOT considered to be violations, but tactics ("cheesy" or not), that may or may not be "fixed" in the future.
Corralling a monster in a corner or other area, as long as the monster remains "conscious" and continues to attempt defense and/or escape.
Using the environment (not a ladder) to climb to another location that does not result in monsters or quest events becoming broken.
"Perching" on geometry to get a better ranged shot at a monster, as long as the monster remains responsive.

The key here is perching in general is not considered an exploit by Turbine, they reserve the right however to remove said perches if they feel that in that particular instance the perch creates unexpected result in the eyes of the developer.

Thanks for that.

[ArkoHighStar]

Thanks for that.

I read that as both of you being right depending on how you look at the situation, From a general perspective the act of perching is not an exploit. However Turbine might create geometry that they feel gives you an unfair advantage and change it without warning, they will not ban you for exploiting that geometry but will change it if they feel it isnt working as they intended, which they have done many many times.

[Milolyen]

Trust me.... that's not what happened.

When people beat stuff like that, they let people know. That's why when it was being beaten after Mod 7, people said things about it.

Right ... just like everybody that plays the game visits or even posts on the forums or gives a **** about what people on the forums think :rolleyes:


I know of many static groups that continued to play this raid long after it was declaired to be a "dead raid that no one runs". The group I ran with did eventually stop trying but talked to several others that continued. I know if I was one to beat it legit I would not post ... why should I put forth all the hard work of figureing out tactics, all the practice it took to get them down and share them with a community that not only hates it but called me stupid to keep trying and bashing my opinion that it is a fun raid. Sorry but not everyone is in search of recognition or craves attention.

Milolyen

[miceelf88]

So, if i understand correctly, climbing a ladder IS an exploit????

[bobbryan2]

Right ... just like everybody that plays the game visits or even posts on the forums or gives a **** about what people on the forums think :rolleyes:


I know of many static groups that continued to play this raid long after it was declaired to be a "dead raid that no one runs". The group I ran with did eventually stop trying but talked to several others that continued. I know if I was one to beat it legit I would not post ... why should I put forth all the hard work of figureing out tactics, all the practice it took to get them down and share them with a community that not only hates it but called me stupid to keep trying and bashing my opinion that it is a fun raid. Sorry but not everyone is in search of recognition or craves attention.

Milolyen

Ok.. let me put it this way.

You say people were beating it all along, but they just weren't posting about it because the forum people made them feel sad inside. But then... after Mod 7, all of a sudden people started posting about it again.

Something obviously changed from before Mod 7 to after Mod 7. What was it?

Was it that people suddenly decided to start posting on the forums because people got happier?

or...

Was it that people actually started beating the raid legitimately.

Your idea that people didn't post because other people would say the raid was broken just isn't plausible. But feel free to keep thinking it is...

[Grosbeak07]

Something isn't sitting with me right.

One the one hand I can see and understand why some people might be reluctant to post anything concerning the Abbot here, because people accuse them of all sorts wrong doing.

On the other hand, those who say they have beaten the raid legit, have been less than helpful in proving that they did it legit.

It seems to me that If I made such a claim, and someone said I didn't do it honestly or fairly, I would want to defend my position. Certainly not giving a reason because of 'spoilers' is BS, I can do a google search and someone somewhere has done a walkthrough for nearly everything.

I guess I will be in the skeptics camp, until someone can prove it otherwise.

[tihocan]

What I'd be most curious to know is if it is now possible to reliably beat asteroids without using "strategies" like levitating, or spawning monsters to block yourself. Haven't tried since mod.7 (it wasn't really possible before, although some people managed to do it with both skill & luck).

[Turial]

What I'd be most curious to know is if it is now possible to reliably beat asteroids without using "strategies" like levitating, or spawning monsters to block yourself. Haven't tried since mod.7 (it wasn't really possible before, although some people managed to do it with both skill & luck).

I've made it though the asteroid puzzle a few times, 3/15, but I'm pretty sure in my cases it was all luck. I think it would be possible but I personally haven't witnessed 2 players in this game that have that level of twitch skill working together. But thats just me. I'm sure they are out there.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Joined a group doing puzzle practice last night.

The puzzles seem doable......but in the 2-3 hours I was with them, I don't think anyone completed any of the puzzles even once.
And it wasn't the first time trying for half the group.

In our case, we did not try to continue once people failed.

But my preliminary idea is that you should take a full group of 12 in there. And make sure most of the people can raise someone somehow.

When you die from failing the puzzles, your stones go back to the main room. Seems to me that if there was a living raiser there, you could get people back up.....................after that I do not know what to do next.

it really bothers me that it takes 2 people per puzzle making zero mistakes, on something that takes a lot of twitch skill anyway.

I was never good at the real Asteroids, I am horrible at jumping in any quest, and I don't even want to talk about the goggle one.

The puzzles actually seem doable. the meteors are slow, the ice rwand room seems possible with practice (that a pug will never have)(although I can't be sure, since I never made more than one successful jump :( )

And some others in the group actually got close with the goggles (plus I'm betting a Monk could do it).

But there is so much luck involved, and doesn't seem to be any forgiveness of even the slightest mistake.

To me, the puzzels don't need to be made easier (on normal)......(although, since we couldn't even do one in 3 hours maybe they do)
But the quest needs to be completable after failing to do the puzzles correctly 100 times.

That means failing a puzzle, should not drain extreme resources. Preferably by not dying when we fail one. Just teleport us someowhere else alive. back to the main room but still alove for instance.....when everyone's out of an incomplete puzzle room, send two more people there.

Just a suggestion........but please Devs, look at this raid.

fix any cheats you find to make it fair to all, but change the whole quest if needed, to make it doable by an average group in a reasonable amount of time.....plz.

The puzzles are kinda cool......I like the feel of this raid. But right now 99% of us cannot enjoy it. And I question where the other 1% is enjoying it legitimately.

[Turial]

That means failing a puzzle, should not drain extreme resources. Preferably by not dying when we fail one. Just teleport us someowhere else alive. back to the main room but still alove for instance.....when everyone's out of an incomplete puzzle room, send two more people there.


yeah, the abbot does do the second part....providing you completed the ice puzzle the first time through and can survive the inferno.

I think I figured something out the other day with the asteroids but was proven wrong as my body was crushed to death...

[Twerpp]

even after successful completion of the puzzles there are more broken things about the quest you have to overcome...whole party getting encased on an island while trying to avoid inferno, wands and stones disappear upon your first death...

[Yuesu]

Something isn't sitting with me right.

One the one hand I can see and understand why some people might be reluctant to post anything concerning the Abbot here, because people accuse them of all sorts wrong doing.

On the other hand, those who say they have beaten the raid legit, have been less than helpful in proving that they did it legit.

It seems to me that If I made such a claim, and someone said I didn't do it honestly or fairly, I would want to defend my position. Certainly not giving a reason because of 'spoilers' is BS, I can do a google search and someone somewhere has done a walkthrough for nearly everything.

I guess I will be in the skeptics camp, until someone can prove it otherwise.

So I'm to believe with what you posted here these ppl who have beat the Abbot are GUILTY of EXPLOITING because someone who couldn't beat the raid said they are....ROFLMAO

PPL1 to the Pope "Your a theif"
Pope to PPL1 "No son I am not"
PPL1 "Well I say you are so you have to prove it to me you are not"
Pope "But I do not steal"
PPL1 "Prove you do not steal"
Pope "I can not prove it, You will need to just believe me"
PPL1 "Ok since you can not prove it you are a theif"

This is just r-tarded logic, anybody who has beaten the Abbot should not have to prove anything to anybody except QUEST COMPLETED...

[maddmatt70]

So I'm to believe with what you posted here these ppl who have beat the Abbot are GUILTY of EXPLOITING because someone who couldn't beat the raid said they are....ROFLMAO

PPL1 to the Pope "Your a theif"
Pope to PPL1 "No son I am not"
PPL1 "Well I say you are so you have to prove it to me you are not"
Pope "But I do not steal"
PPL1 "Prove you do not steal"
Pope "I can not prove it, You will need to just believe me"
PPL1 "Ok since you can not prove it you are a theif"

This is just r-tarded logic, anybody who has beaten the Abbot should not have to prove anything to anybody except QUEST COMPLETED...

Who said anything about proving anything. You know you beat it that should be good enough if it isn't that is your problem.

[Yuesu]

Who said anything about proving anything. You know you beat it that should be good enough if it isn't that is your problem.

Read quote below which is from the quote I put into my post then you will have your answer. As a rule of thumb one should read the entire post, quotes and all before responding.


It seems to me that If I made such a claim, and someone said I didn't do it honestly or fairly, I would want to defend my position. Certainly not giving a reason because of 'spoilers' is BS, I can do a google search and someone somewhere has done a walkthrough for nearly everything.

I guess I will be in the skeptics camp, until someone can prove it otherwise.

[maddmatt70]

Read quote below which is from the quote I put into my post then you will have your answer. As a rule of thumb one should read the entire post, quotes and all before responding.

I read your entire post and the way it reads is why should somebody have to prove something which infers that you believe somebody does have to prove something. Which I just wholeheartedly trash..

[Hakushi]

Perching in this quest is NOT the problem, and not the exploit. The problem is how to get to the perching point. Don't expect any other comments from me on this.

The problems with the puzzles in this quest is not that much their difficulty but their consequences, one small lag and you're dead, and that's where the problem is, if you fail the puzzle, you're dead and might screw the raid for the entire party. If you would lose hps when falling in that water instead of instadeath, you could have the chance to recover from a mistake, same if asteroids were damaging you instead of killing you. But a damaged player can be healed, make the rooms with puzzle an antimagic area or block any kind of healing so players cannot heal themselves trying to cheat the puzzle mechanic. If in the googles puzzle, you fall, and if you fall you're back at the beginning with a 25% hp loss, it means you have 3 other chances to beat it.

Why I think this should be a good change, in other raids, you have chances to recover from a failed puzzle attempt, look at how many possibilities you can use to beat the Reaver puzzle, each mistake gives eles and you have up to 10 or 12 possibilities (I can't remember the exact number). In the Twilight Forge, even if you mess up the puzzle, you can still get to the titan (it depends at which point you mess the puzzle because if you mess it too early the quest becomes impossible to complete because you'll be unable to access the room with the yellow crystal). In the DQ part 1, you just end up in a room with undeads if you mess the puzzle, in the Shroud, you lose two chests in part 3 and have a more difficult fight in part 2 if you mess the puzzles. The Abbot is the only quest if you mess a small part of a puzzle it kills you, and that's what I think should be changed.

[ubis46]

Haha. Translation: "They didn't post because they win by exploiting, and didn't want to get in trouble"

For the record we spent hours and countless resources practicing this raid and upon beating it after mod 7 a post was made almost immediately, as we had nothing to hide. I do have a question; Perching is that like poaching because the abbot loves his eggs fried and throws many infernos’ to ensure that happens. There are still many things wrong with this raid. Losing spell point to the inferno is BS and lag is a killer, but the dev’s are interested in fixing these or any other problem that would give the player a fair chance,so you better have a work around and that not and exploiting that’s survival

[Angelus_dead]

For the record we spent hours and countless resources practicing this raid and upon beating it after mod 7 a post was made almost immediately, as we had nothing to hide.
We're talking about the people who were beating it before module seven.

However, you DID hide something after your mod 7 win. You hid most everything, in fact.

[Helmet]

do you have to beat all 3 puzzles to complete the raid?

I do not mean realistically. I mean actually.


not suggesting this is possible, but lets assume you could do 100 000 damage in one hit, and the abbot just died as soon as you walked in, and never teleported you away.

would you complete the raid, or do each of the puzzles need to be 'checked' before the raid is complete?

[Aspenor]

do you have to beat all 3 puzzles to complete the raid?

I do not mean realistically. I mean actually.


not suggesting this is possible, but lets assume you could do 100 000 damage in one hit, and the abbot just died as soon as you walked in, and never teleported you away.

would you complete the raid, or do each of the puzzles need to be 'checked' before the raid is complete?

You must complete the puzzles or the Abbot is invulnerable with 0 HP.

[Helmet]

well, the ice is ez enough, and the astoroids is prolly being exploited , or using summons..which i really dont think is exploiting

other then that, you can realistically beat ice and 'roids near %100 of the time, and basically just need to beat the tiles in order to beat the raid


make sure you take like 20 wands of ice lilly pad, and form them on top of each other

[Dimz]

For the record we spent hours and countless resources practicing this raid and upon beating it after mod 7 a post was made almost immediately, as we had nothing to hide. I do have a question; Perching is that like poaching because the abbot loves his eggs fried and throws many infernos’ to ensure that happens. There are still many things wrong with this raid. Losing spell point to the inferno is BS and lag is a killer, but the dev’s are interested in fixing these or any other problem that would give the player a fair chance,so you better have a work around and that not and exploiting that’s survival


Hours!? ORly?! I spent an accumulated amount of hours that equaled over a total of 30-40 hours before mod 7. You do not lose spell points during the inferno btw its when he casts the wraiths, so obviously your hours in there taught you next to nothing.

[Angelus_dead]

You do not lose spell points during the inferno btw its when he casts the wraiths, so obviously your hours in there taught you next to nothing.
Both the wraiths and inferno have been observed to drain spellpoints in the past. In fact, if inferno didn't drain spellpoints, it would be possible for a WF sorc with shroud resist, fire shield, and firestorm greaves to heal himself through it.

[Milolyen]

Something obviously changed from before Mod 7 to after Mod 7. What was it?


Something DID change ... the people beating it. There are more people beating it and those are the ones that posted about it.

And again as I said in the first post. If I was one of them beating it I would not bother telling the people on the forums about it either. Why you ask? Simple ... "no screen shot? It didn't happen." and then even screen shots can be forged and I am sure I would get accused of that as well with all the negativity about that and then there is also ... I really could not care less if you guys know I beat it or not.

SOME may run immiediatly to the forums to post their achievements ... but alot couldn't care less. Just like MOST of the people that play the game don't even visit the forums much less post in them. Other than to waist time while at work, I have visited the forums 5 times in the 2+ years I have been playing and 3 of them was to post/check on stuff I put up in the marketplace forums. If it was not for that my "join date" would read November 2007 (that is when I started this job)

Milolyen

[bnrilfun]

All I know is if there is a guild on Thelanis that is running this on a regular basis and would not mind letting a 16 Sorc tag along sometime to finish getting my last two pre flags done then join you on raids to learn it I would greatly appreciate it. It is hard to find someone who knows the quests well enough to lead a PUG group through it, but I have two done Cinnis and one other and just need two more, so that eventually I can try and lead my guild and allies through it.

Dieing to learn it is not a biggie to me.

Send an in game mail to Benrill Funn I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

[Grosbeak07]

So I'm to believe with what you posted here these ppl who have beat the Abbot are GUILTY of EXPLOITING because someone who couldn't beat the raid said they are....ROFLMAO

PPL1 to the Pope "Your a theif"
Pope to PPL1 "No son I am not"
PPL1 "Well I say you are so you have to prove it to me you are not"
Pope "But I do not steal"
PPL1 "Prove you do not steal"
Pope "I can not prove it, You will need to just believe me"
PPL1 "Ok since you can not prove it you are a theif"

This is just r-tarded logic, anybody who has beaten the Abbot should not have to prove anything to anybody except QUEST COMPLETED...


You are perfectly right, you don't have to prove anything to me, just don't expect me to believe you either.

You start a thread on this subject and people come out of the woodwork to claim to have beaten the raid, but when pressed for details become suddenly defensive and then silent. This casts a lot of doubt in my mind. I'll be more than happy to change my tune, when I see something that changes my mind. Until that time I am a skeptic.

[query]

I never found anybody to do the pre raids w me pre mod 7 and am still looking, so you'll see no personal posting on my abbot beating experiences.


But with so many people beating the abbot, I'm surprised not one person has posted about unsual hair growth or sudden blindness.

No, NO! Back Tolero, BACK!